mini1510 PAUL WALKER MEMORIAL flights of angels sing thee to

[kanyeknowsbest]

VOTEECOUNT DAY 1 NUMBER 3.5

grimgroove (4) - slandaar tso garmr amethystkitty
windblown (3) - marquis desperado bigterp
amethystkitty (1) - majiffy
slandaar (1) - pieguy
generic (1) - telo
garmr (1) - grimgroove
telo (1) - windblown

not voting - generic
there are 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

deadline is in (expired on 2013-10-21 10:00:00)

[Windblown]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Grimgroove

My partner just pointed something out that reminiscent of a game where he has played a game as scum and, Wind's post has gotten progressively townier. I don't think I'd mind keeping him around for a bit, if anything he is amusing

Why wouldn't you just post it here too so people can see your thought process?

I only have one vote.

I'll admit that the single was redundant, but out of all the things I mentioned in my post you choose to bring up that?

@Garmr: I bought Y. Come at me.

[Generic]

OK, generic has returned and generic is going to tell you what generic has analysed... (that better Majiffy? )

Anyway, to the 5 names left to sift through


Slandaar - First 9 posts are nothing of value. All RVS, fluff and discussion about a past game. Then on post 10 sheeps a vote from garmr with poor reasoning.
2 more posts of nothing, then finally he enters into the game with a question (to grim). But then doesnt follow up on the question before jumping in with a few town reads and an attack on desp and grim.
Presses pie to answer a question yet has not bothered with the one he threw out, but returns to grim with a statement format question.
Does follow up this one at least with grim, but both seem to be happy with pie's list out of the blue yet the arguement is over the number of scum identified...? We can only lynch one person at a time, so even if someone only had a single scum read i dont get the arguement. But i digress.
Post #125 is good pressure on pie, and even though he was protecting pie from grim earlier that felt more defending against the poor point (and in turn putting more pressure back on grim) rather than actively defending pie, who slandaar had pushed to answer the question previously.
Direct answer to majiffy and then more pressure on pie.
The last few posts are much better than the first half of his posting, with strong pressing and questioning, a request to be questioned while he is online due to the deadline (inviting the scrutiny so answers can flow immediately) and then waving away role fishing questions without an overreaction.

Overall a slow burner into the game, but he hit the NOS button after he settled into the race i think Town for now, and off the list.

And then there were 4...

Marquis - 4 posts, none of which hold any sort of value. 2 in RVS, one fluff comment and a fluff 'catching up' post.
Lurky scum potential.


Grimgroove - Good opening post, opinions on players and although at that stage in the game the reasoning is not as vital he still lays firm reasoning to the opinion.
Presses how a question is being dodged. Again fine.
Oh dear, we have a game mechanics arguement to try and pin accusation on someone. These always end badly. This isnt a scum tell as both alignments can make silly theories like this, but the arguement is awful from grims side of the fence.
Persists with the stupid logic, again its null cos gambiting scum or overeager townie could do the exact same thing.
#87 is troubling. Grim knew about the past game. Even if he hadnt made the connection that the three named scum in pies list were the scum last time he has argued this inside knowledge of the number of scum crap for two posts when he should surely have been aware the last game had 3 scum... meaning logically if someone wants to assume anything 3 scum makes perfect sense. And the nature of the turnaround here is a little bit forced to me.
A good final post, with analysis on players that looking at mine now seem to draw the same conclusions from the same factors. The vote on garmr seems genuine given how his voting has been, and its off a post i also questioned of garmr's (see below).
Town pass for now.


Garmr - First three posts are throwaway (RVS, fluff). Points out someone might have a post restriction... null for the time being. A stupid unvote/revote post which is sold as a conversation igniter but serves as fluff. More fluff in responding to majiffy's joke formatted question about being behind him in a wagon, and then further affirms hes happy with his vote and that im town. No expansion or involement.
References the comments to the previous game and how it alienates those who werent in it. Seems to place doubt in his own point, feels a bit non commital.
Post #130, the post that gives me hope for this player being town. Garmr runs through all the concerns i have just stated above and answers them (spookily as if he knew i would ISO him and build the previious opinions... ) And this post is a very good town cred earning post.
Finishes strong from here with answering questions and applying opinion.
To return to the TFATF analogy Garmr saw slandaar hit his boost but held off his button for those few moments longer to get the kick later for the line.

Town for now.


BigTerp - Scum, he voted for me.

Ok, so seriously, his opening is like a few openings in that he RVS votes, responds to pie's query as to not noticing the reference to the previous game.
Post #8- is good because while still referencing the previous game he makes it relevent to this game for reading others. He offers a couple of opinions on the general play of grim and TSO.
Post #82 is interesting, because he dismissed the pie list as RVS which would make sense if he spotted the reference to the last game, and then makes a different assumption on the team breakdowns (which is strange if the last game had three scum, but that wouldnt make it set in stone either).
Presses AK for more detail on a read, but places no agenda to it (devoid of opinion, just a question). Foes on to defend slandaar to desp.
More positive opinion on players, still no clear cut suspects. Starting to feel a bit like not wanting to rock the boat with anyone.
Post #96, finally commits to a negative read on someone. Based off an attack on grimgroove by TSO. So much wifom here so i wont expand at this time.
Yet another town/positive read.
#116, mindful of the dealine but feels an impulse lynch will not help, which is fair enough. But given the play up to now from him his only suspect is TSO yet he didnt offer this as the best lynch option for the day. Something here is feeling a little... coasting.
Takes issue with AK limiting the pool to choose a lynch from. We all have our ways of doing these things so to question it isnt the problem... the problem is that this statement was made on friday so with only 3 RL days of play in front of us and the need to sleep each night we all have the idea that he wants to stifle someone reducing the pool to focus pressure on a few seems a bit misguided... or has an agenda.
Asks his only scum read up to now why he thinks majiffy is scum... no pressure applied to TSO since his vote nor any follow up and then this remains the only interaction since.
And then finally to the kicker, his last post. After pressing AK regarding not needing to rush a decision, wondering why windblown for lynch and further pressing the point about not limiting options so quickly, just 24 hours later he goes 'Fuck it' and votes windblown, pushing him to L-2?!?
I have a shortlist of three, Bigterp has done the opposite of Garmr and slandaar in that he started well, he was first off the line of these 5 players, yet he wasted that NOS momentum and is now stalling... okay, the analogy is falling on its arse now.

So my big three suspects are (in order):
Bigterp
Telo
Marquis

Based on how it has read to me,

vote big terp

[Generic]

And to be clear, I only see value in voting for telo or big terp today, marquis is one for pressure if he isn't replaced.

[T S O]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Grimgroove

My partner just pointed something out that reminiscent of a game where he has played a game as scum and, Wind's post has gotten progressively townier. I don't think I'd mind keeping him around for a bit, if anything he is amusing

If you gave reasoning for doing ...well, anything, you might be of some value as Town. As it stands, nah.

[Slandaar]

This game is so slow considering we have 1 day till deadline.

Lets face it there isn't that good a case anywhere I do think Grim is the best bet but its still kinda meh. Combined with having quite a few townreads I am actually quite happy lynching marquis here.

And if people think 'oh no can't lynch the lurker!!!'

catching up bbl

Saying you are catching up in present tense and then not doing so is actually quite scummy; if you are going to proddodge you just do it as town.

VOTE: Marquis

[Slandaar]

then finally he enters into the game with a question (to grim). But then doesnt follow up on the question before jumping in with a few town reads and an

attack on

desp and

grim.

There is the follow up.

Not really sure what question to grim you are talking about though.

[Slandaar]

Nevermind I checked my ISO; the insight into what question.

[Grimgroove]

@GG
My vote on the ice queen was a rvs. It only got serious when she suggested the one on one with someone she thought was town which is pretty odd. Also i'm not getting lost in the past game unlike Thus it's not hypocritical. Also tell me how my view on the past game is wrong.

Yes reading meta is interesting but continuing to talk about the a past game with out using it in context to recent plays is just what you said stifling possibly interesting discussion and insights. So what your proposing is to continue being stuck in the past game wasting precious time. No this wrong.

You pretty much skipped the rvs phase not that is bad but you claim Slandaar is fluffier than you remember.

Your case in 78 is pretty bad and pretty much saying because he speculated three scum he knows the set up is what your basically saying. Then when Slandaar replies 3 is the norm

your next post focus's on discrediting him that's pretty bad in itself.

But your making such a uproar about pieguy yet you pretty much vote TSO with out reasoning in the same freaking post.



VOTE: GG

@Slandaar I thought you had post restriction by the way you were acting silly was that just mucking around?

WHAT THE FUCK?

This is the thrid time in this game that I'm immediately voted back by someone I voted for but this one takes the cake in the OMGUS-league. Did anyone even read this response? A collection of random thought organized in some paragraphs, added with a vote.

About his vote on Amethyst being RVS: refer to posts 58 and 90. The only additional argument is an oddity of the 1vs1, which is hardly a backed-up vote. The hypocritical-aspect was more of an afterthought ("hypocritical to bout"), yet the way Garmr chooses to emphasize this emotional point screams AtE.

I already told you how your view about discussing past games is wrong. Pieguyn, Big Terp and me literally came out of a long-stretched game together right into LyLo. We're still carrying eachothers scents in our noses. If something is off within that trio, chances are we'll catch on to it more easily. That is what this discussion was good for, smelling each others butts again. I was never stuck in the previous game. Nobody was. Your comment was an easy shot from the sideline but with no real cause to make said comment, aside from you looking active and involved.

Why did it take you so long to comment on my bad case in 78. Why didn't you call me out on it before?
I still stand by my reservations being justified at the time, but I think this has been properly explained already and will not go over it again. You're beating a dead-horse.
Explain the part in bold. You seem to suggest I made some kind of a sudden switch?

My vote on T S O was reasoned (albeit minimally) as his approach seemed to be one of "wait and see", based on the little he had said. This reasoning can be found in my ISO. It wasn't as much of a scumread, it was rather a dragging him into action at that point. Not liking what I see since then, since his meta-study on me based on vocabulary (??) comes with a vote that does not show any maneuvring space given the reasons that come with it. It reads more like a decision than an actual feeling.

But Garmr is priority number 1 for me now. That post literally gave me the heebiejeebies and I'm surprised nobody else picked up on this.

Amethyst: The Marangal head only has experienced my scum-meta first-hand when it comes to finished games. The least she should do is check my town-meta if you want to get on a wagon with arguments like that.

[T S O]

1 fucking day?

I'd lynch {Mara, Marq} atm. I wouldn't lynch Desp/Generic/Sland. I could lynch Grim, but I feel I'd prefer him around than the previous two.

[Generic]

I don't get any comments at all for the NOS references? Damn you people suck.

Anyway, I have my big three, and marquis is on there but I feel the other two are scummier.

But if the only option is marquis I will consider moving the vote.

[T S O]

Who's your big three?

[Garmr]

@GG
My vote on the ice queen was a rvs. It only got serious when she suggested the one on one with someone she thought was town which is pretty odd. Also i'm not getting lost in the past game unlike Thus it's not hypocritical. Also tell me how my view on the past game is wrong.

Yes reading meta is interesting but continuing to talk about the a past game with out using it in context to recent plays is just what you said stifling possibly interesting discussion and insights. So what your proposing is to continue being stuck in the past game wasting precious time. No this wrong.

You pretty much skipped the rvs phase not that is bad but you claim Slandaar is fluffier than you remember.

Your case in 78 is pretty bad and pretty much saying because he speculated three scum he knows the set up is what your basically saying. Then when Slandaar replies 3 is the norm

your next post focus's on discrediting him that's pretty bad in itself.

But your making such a uproar about pieguy yet you pretty much vote TSO with out reasoning in the same freaking post.



VOTE: GG

@Slandaar I thought you had post restriction by the way you were acting silly was that just mucking around?

WHAT THE FUCK?

This is the thrid time in this game that I'm immediately voted back by someone I voted for but this one takes the cake in the OMGUS-league. Did anyone even read this response? A collection of random thought organized in some paragraphs, added with a vote.

About his vote on Amethyst being RVS: refer to posts 58 and 90. The only additional argument is an oddity of the 1vs1, which is hardly a backed-up vote. The hypocritical-aspect was more of an afterthought ("hypocritical to bout"), yet the way Garmr chooses to emphasize this emotional point screams AtE.

I already told you how your view about discussing past games is wrong. Pieguyn, Big Terp and me literally came out of a long-stretched game together right into LyLo. We're still carrying eachothers scents in our noses. If something is off within that trio, chances are we'll catch on to it more easily. That is what this discussion was good for, smelling each others butts again. I was never stuck in the previous game. Nobody was. Your comment was an easy shot from the sideline but with no real cause to make said comment, aside from you looking active and involved.

Why did it take you so long to comment on my bad case in 78. Why didn't you call me out on it before?
I still stand by my reservations being justified at the time, but I think this has been properly explained already and will not go over it again. You're beating a dead-horse.
Explain the part in bold. You seem to suggest I made some kind of a sudden switch?

My vote on T S O was reasoned (albeit minimally) as his approach seemed to be one of "wait and see", based on the little he had said. This reasoning can be found in my ISO. It wasn't as much of a scumread, it was rather a dragging him into action at that point. Not liking what I see since then, since his meta-study on me based on vocabulary (??) comes with a vote that does not show any maneuvring space given the reasons that come with it. It reads more like a decision than an actual feeling.

But Garmr is priority number 1 for me now. That post literally gave me the heebiejeebies and I'm surprised nobody else picked up on this.

Amethyst: The Marangal head only has experienced my scum-meta first-hand when it comes to finished games. The least she should do is check my town-meta if you want to get on a wagon with arguments like that.

1. the highlighted part. It's pretty obvious that Slandaar was right 3 is the norm even then you continued to try and discredit him you'd just end up wasting time and that's what was meant by it. Also the fact you want to justify your argument as in my eyes it was a hell of a reach. Also I took so long because I found the dispute in your iso.

2 You told me my view was wrong. I told you why my view was right. Like I said if we don't use it in context with this game like comparing behaviors and actions they done then it just becomes worthless fluff.

Scenario A. x"You did this last game player y and then did it again this game.
(In context)

Scenario B player x"Wow you totally had me fooled last game."
player y "Yeh i know man that was an awesome game"
Player x "That play player z made wow"

Get my point I feel like we were heading for a scenario B

What I can tell from your response through is your stubborn and not accepting of other views even if your in the wrong I bet you didn't even consider my responce and ignored it completely just like you did with slandaar. After this game if i was you I would look into that.

Now like you say arguing with my view would be like beating a worthless dead horse. It's worthless as my views on it isn't alignment indicative and i just veiw it as favrouble enviroment for scum which I explained a couple of times.

3. Meh I was finding it hard to make a case and so I went by my gut. With all the talk about past games and such it was hard to get motivated anyway I wasn't dead certain she was scum she was just null-scum at the time so that's why I was flexible voting for someone else. It day 1 and we don't have much info or time to make a great case.

4. Yeh but even then you were pushing more on Pie. Than tso even with that reason. It's like posting 4 pages of why this person suspicious then voting someone you wrote one sentence of it's just freaking wrong.

5.Well this is the first time you mentioned the meta study based on vocabulary reason. Before you said this

Difficult to comment on T S O's argument. So I won't, as it's not really an argument anyway.

To me that feels like your not looking for scum but just a easy lynch. Bet you were surprised that I would bite back.
Like you try to argue Pie as scum vote TSO
See that the TSO argument thing and then because I wasn't really fully invested in the game at the time thought I'd be a easier lynch voted me. Bet you didn't expect me to responsd in such a way you'd get stuck with your vote me otherwise you'd look suspicious.

It's pretty obvious here folks GG is scum.

Btw I've never been afraid of voting people who voted me ask any player who's played with me. OMGUS as scumtell is so outdated and oldschool. This is just another tip for you.

[The generic method]

Who's your big three?

*sigh*

You didn't read #177

[Generic]

Sorry, didn't realise I was still logged into my hydra... Clearly you can see that's from me

[T S O]

Nope.

Nice slip, by the way.

[Generic]

I've done it with both hydras, at least that one wasn't the anonymous one I'm in :p

[pieguyn]

I don't see anyone taking your post seriously.

Do you?

the way I saw it, Desp was taking it seriously enough to ask what the hell I did and Generic figuring out the reasoning behind the post.

can you clarify what you think happened plz?/

Okay, so it's not my imagination when I see some of your posts just going with the flow.

I had a thought just like this when playing him before. in his case I don't think it's alignment indicative

[pieguyn]

I'd be fine with lynching {Garmr, Marquis, Telo}.

I'm liking Windblown more recently, but still keeping my eye on him. Slandaar seems town for me atm.c Grimgroove reads town that's pissed off because everyone he's voted voted him back.

Marquis has done literally nothing all game and I'm liking Generic's case on Telo. As for Garmr:

Your case in 78 is pretty bad and pretty much saying because he speculated three scum he knows the set up is what your basically saying. Then when Slandaar replies 3 is the norm your next post focus's on discrediting him that's pretty bad in itself. But your making such a uproar about pieguy yet you pretty much vote TSO with out reasoning in the same freaking post.

1. the highlighted part. It's pretty obvious that Slandaar was right 3 is the norm even then you continued to try and discredit him you'd just end up wasting time and that's what was meant by it. Also the fact you want to justify your argument as in my eyes it was a hell of a reach. Also I took so long because I found the dispute in your iso.

accusing someone based on where his/her vote is seems like an excuse and not legitimate scumhunting. if that's the case, why haven't you voted me saying something like I'm asking Windblown questions but my vote's on Slandaar? I find my votes don't match up with who I'm pressuring, just cause I only get one vote and I wanna pressure multiple slots at once. also, Desp was questioning why I put 3 mafia too, what about him?

Isn't that the list from the last game probably just a joke I don't think it scummy or anything. I just agreed with generic. I guess you can say it was sheep but i was already voted on her so it wasn't in that way. I still don't see the point of arguing with someone you think is town you can just use it to waste time. It's better to argue with your scum reads.

How you used your joke list well good I guess I don't know. It got a reaction out of some players I just figured it was to do with the past game straight away and since it was in the rvs stage I kinda shrugged.

this one seems like fencesitting. I asked him to give an opinion on my using past games, and he gave the first sentence. There's not much of an opinion in there. Then the second quote doesn't have any actual stance in there about how I used my list.

I know that the past game most of been a epic one. But can we keep the past games to a minim later on in the day. Because If we build cases around that the people who weren't in it get a bit left out . But more importantly if this becomes a continuation of the past game and one or more of you are scum you can play that to your advantage and keep things focused on the past game. Through when we don't have many cases it's fine I guess.

he claims it's not a good idea to talk about past games but then he immediately goes and says it might be fine? this just seems like he's trying to appear neutral such that no one pressures him 0.0 note this was also after a point AK made about past games, so seems he might just be trying to blend in.

[pieguyn]

woops forgot

vote: Telo

sheeping Generic

[Desperado]

TSO/Generic/Slandaar is The Town Block. We don't touch those people until the gamestate forces us to.

I don't want Windblown dead anymore.

Unvote

Garmr can be town for #58 - don't think scum would do something useless like that as a joke. Cheekiness is closest to towniness.

Grim can be town for backing me up on the pie/3 scum thing. Not seeing any scum benefit to that beyond buddying me, which I'm willing to overlook.

One of Garmr/Telo is probably scum for their reactions to the 3-way meta party. Telo asked them for any insight into each other's play (scum scheming out the town landscape?) while Garmr complained about the effect it would have on everyone else's ability to read them (scum afraid they might get left out?).

I generally like where Mara's head has been at so far. They can be town. Especially for 114--reaction to Generic not knowing it was her is awesome, and I like that she's hunting town and scum alike.

BigTerp can be scum for 116--with 72 hours to the deadline, he's complaining about town limiting options? Fuck that.

Majiffy was unreadable until 160. He was sufficiently annoyed for me to leave him alone for a while.

I like that pie guy. He seems cool and genuinely earnest.

Hate BigTerp's 162. He complains about town limiting options, but then waltzes in a day later and starts slinging mud on the lead wagon? He also has no reads, so why the fuck was he complaining earlier?

[size=large]

Vote: BigTerp

[/size]

[Desperado]

Short form town-scum:

TSO
Generic
Slandaar

Pieguy
Grimgroove

Amethyst Kitty
Windblown

Majiffy
Marquis

Garmr
Telo
BigTerp

[Majiffy]

OK, generic has returned and generic is going to tell you what generic has analysed... (that better Majiffy? )

Yes.

Majiffy was unreadable until 160. He was sufficiently annoyed for me to leave him alone for a while.

That's ok, I have a read on almost no one. So I guess feelings mutual!

[Majiffy]

Short form town-scum:

TSO
Generic
Slandaar

Pieguy
Grimgroove

Amethyst Kitty
Windblown

Majiffy
Marquis

Garmr
Telo
BigTerp

What about my post 160 made you decide to put me in null-scum territory?

[Garmr]

Hey pie just curious You made a case against me some of it recycled from obvious scum GG and some of it new. Why did you vote telo when you put so much effort into the case on me?

1

accusing someone based on where his/her vote is seems like an excuse and not legitimate scumhunting. if that's the case, why haven't you voted me saying something like I'm asking Windblown questions but my vote's on Slandaar? I find my votes don't match up with who I'm pressuring, just cause I only get one vote and I wanna pressure multiple slots at once. also, Desp was questioning why I put 3 mafia too,

Basing a vote on someones vote seems like an excuse??? Can I ask pie WTF are you smoking cause I want some. Mafia is a game about reading peoples votes, their opinions on who's scum and examining wagons and using night interactions. You seem to leave out the bit about why I find this suspicious. Read back he only had like one sentence as a reason compared to a page long case he presented on you. You'd think he'd vote the player his trying to push for a lynch.

Also asking players questions are fine. But if your hard pushing a case like he did would you place your vote on it when it isn't that built up. If you say no the logic would of been sucked out the game. Desparodo didn't kick up a shit storm about it either he asked and waited for a responce. Not like derp a derp GG shouting it has to be correct derp a derpp urrrghh i'm always right derp.

Garmr wrote:
Isn't that the list from the last game probably just a joke I don't think it scummy or anything. I just agreed with generic. I guess you can say it was sheep but i was already voted on her so it wasn't in that way. I still don't see the point of arguing with someone you think is town you can just use it to waste time. It's better to argue with your scum reads.
Garmr wrote:
How you used your joke list well good I guess I don't know. It got a reaction out of some players I just figured it was to do with the past game straight away and since it was in the rvs stage I kinda shrugged.

this one seems like fencesitting. I asked him to give an opinion on my using past games, and he gave the first sentence. There's not much of an opinion in there. Then the second quote doesn't have any actual stance in there about how I used my list.

Well here's a more opinionated one. It's a fucking joke list in the rvs stage. I figured it was a joke list with something to do with the last game as soon as you posted it. I'm not slow like some. It has no relevance to me and pushing it on me isn't going to get information out me because I repeat it has no relevance to me. Also I told you before I don't see how it could be alignment indicative.

Garmr wrote:
I know that the past game most of been a epic one. But can we keep the past games to a minim later on in the day. Because If we build cases around that the people who weren't in it get a bit left out . But more importantly if this becomes a continuation of the past game and one or more of you are scum you can play that to your advantage and keep things focused on the past game. Through when we don't have many cases it's fine I guess.

he claims it's not a good idea to talk about past games but then he immediately goes and says it might be fine? this just seems like he's trying to appear neutral such that no one pressures him 0.0 note this was also after a point AK made about past games, so seems he might just be trying to blend in.

Just get out seriously out. It is a bad idea and no matter how many times I fucking explain it to you don't get it. I said it's ok if you fucking put it in CONTEXT which you weren't DOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

2 You told me my view was wrong. I told you why my view was right. Like I said if we don't use it in context with this game like comparing behaviors and actions they done then it just becomes worthless fluff.

Scenario A. x"You did this last game player y and then did it again this game.
(In context)

Scenario B player x"Wow you totally had me fooled last game."
player y "Yeh i know man that was an awesome game"
Player x "That play player z made wow"

Get my point I feel like we were heading for a scenario B

This is my answer explained in full detail kinda funny how you left that out.

I think your town but your one hell of a headache.