Open 530 "WSoB" (Stack the Deck): GAME OVER

[DoctorEagle]

Why did I not get an email about my pm when day started...

Anyways, I'll read through this mess and consult DP to let him know that we started.

[DoctorEagle]

This is a prod dodge. Eagle is V/LA and Im pretty busy myself. I'll get to this later tonight

[DoctorEagle]

Hey, this is eagle. Forgot to read this game last night when the V/LA ended. I will read this tonight.

(DP, get in here!)

[DoctorEagle]

13 Why did you make a second RVS vote? Aren't your second votes supposed to get people *out* of RVS?

21 For the record its weird how Venrob voting for Anakimus gets him a wagon, yet Brian Skies also does the same, and doesnt get anything.

28 Its interesting but you dont comment on it? Interesting

3131 Terribad logic. Self voting IN RVS is pretty much just playstyle indicative, not alignment indicative.

42 I like the reason but I dont like the soft "HoS" instead of a legitimate vote. Why not vote?

[DoctorEagle]

That wasnt suppose to be completed post..

Ugh, fail.

Regarding 42, the only thing I didnt like was the soft HoS when you were already voting. It could have been a confirm vote.

Otherwise its a good post.

[DoctorEagle]

50 Why only give this opinion when asked?

56 No idea how this makes it *not* a good vote. You say this about Alduskkel, yet you dont actually comment on the Venrob wagon that happened earlier which also had Hiraki vote him after 2 people already voted. Why this selective?

63 This is literally OMGUS, if you think about it, your reasoning applies to a situation where tne didnt vote first. SO you could have also voted for Ald without tne voting first, yet you only voted after he did. Your accusation also applies to you.

71, 84 Good post.

74 Uhm no idea why the same situation doesnt apply to Viera where he also didnt explain why he was sheeping you.

85 Why didnt you support the Anakimus wagon then? And why compare the situation to a wagon on an Innocent Child? Is there anyone here who *is* an innocent child? Why didnt the Venrob wagon get the same amount of info? And finally, you worry about the wagon on the self voter, yet you casually mentioned that notscience also casually self votes in RVS. Lets answer the hypothetical question, that will never happen outside of RVS. Your question of "why do we defend Anakimus so much" is applicable to you, "why are you chainsawing Venrob?"

103 Why? Your calling the person she's defending scum, but you have an unexplained town read on Sakura.

113 Out of all the accusations on you on that post, thats ALL you comment on?

119 I dont like this attack, it feels like youre looking for petty reasons to attack someone. Yes he helped *get out of RVS* by the vote.

121Lol, so you are a self voter, and you attack people for being self voters. Seems legit. I really dont like the fact that youre attacking a self voter IN RVS when I've seen you self vote OUT of RVS

124 OMG!! HIIIII ETL!!!!

126 So we are settling on a lurker vote? I liked your previous stances but now you choose to go for someone who might not have read the thread yet? And your post still indicates you dont like Sakura's posts. What gives?

128Why didnt you vote any of them? Also why is it "whiteknighting" if you think Sakura and Venrob are *both* scum. White Knighting indicates that scum is defending town to gain trust.

130 SO do you think Jacob is scum with them?

136 You will after my post

145 Do you have scum games from Venrob to compare?

146 So are you saying you *dont* self vote as town?

147 First two scenarios are HORRENDOUSLY anti-town but not necessarily scummy.

151 This is the first mention of bussing I've ssen all game. I dont even know what youre relating it to.

156 Are you giving evidence that goes *against* you? o.O

162 Yet you never actually explained your early town reads.

174 So you actually give the scenarios for a situation applicable here, yet dont give your own stance.

175 So no comment on anything here? You just give meta, which includes EPIC MAFIA which couldnt be anymore different than MS?

185 What scum slip? Im having issues with people who bring up scum slips because like 90% of the time they arent scum slips at all.

Alduskkel - town
Ankamius - leaning town
Brian Skies - leaning scum
EspeciallyTheLies - leaning scum
Hiraki - leaning town
JacobSavage - null
pieguyn - town
Sakura Hana - scum
thenewearth - null
Venrob - leaning town
Viera Assassin - null

Im having a problem because Im not liking ETL's posts yet Im seriously scum reading Sakura.

I'll wait for a VC before voting for Sakura, because Im not sure how many votes are on her right now.

[DoctorEagle]

This was DP

[DoctorEagle]

Just started reading.

Not a huge fan of Venrob seeing self-voting as alignment indicative.

[DoctorEagle]

Page 1:
Hiraki, what's the town quiz? Just because he points out the fact you have no reason isn't a town tell. I don't know, you might be joking.

Venrob starts his attack on Anakimus, self-voting isn't a scumtell but he tries to make it look like one.

Page 2:
Not a fan of Sakura's comment on the Venrob wagon. She's just like "Oh cool a wagon."

HoS is weird, but why not a real vote?

Alduskell's vote was a bit suspicious.

Page 3:
Just exchanges on Sakura and Alduskell, nothing to comment here really.



Page 4:

pieguy's HoS is weird, too hesitant to vote?

I don't like Sakura's ad hom. Also, why the Innocent Child question? There is no Innocent Child in this game, so who cares.

Page 5:

Anakimuis, why do you have a town read on Sakura?

TNE, I don't like dat fluff.

Also, can we stop trying to justify the fact you are town just because you brought us out of RVS. Scum can do this you know.

I'll keep reading some more tomorrow.

[DoctorEagle]

I'm inclined to vote Venrob because of the self meta and his attempt to make self voting looking like an alignment indicative thing rather than a playstyle indicative thing.

I need to ask DP on his read for Venrob. But I'll go ahead and vote him now

VOTE: Venrob

-BE

P-Edit: No scumhunting either, pieguy.

[DoctorEagle]

I don't agree with DP's read on Venrob, not sure why he is townreading him at all.

Nothing changed, I didn't like Venrob to begin with.

@Sakura, DP wanted to vote you, but I was like "meh"

[DoctorEagle]

Prod received. Will post content probably tomorrow.

This head is V/LA until Oct. 5 though, so a lot of the posts you'll be getting will be from baldy

DP

[DoctorEagle]

Ughhhh, forgot about this game, bookmarked on my main account.

Anyways, I buy Venrob's claim for now, but he's could still be scum for fakeclaiming but I don't want to lynch claimed PR's on Day 1..

UNVOTE:

JS, why are you still pushing for a Venrob lynch given the claim? I have a light scumread on you, but it's not worth a vote yet. Just a FoS for now.

[DoctorEagle]

So close to the deadline already?

VOTE: SakuraHana

Why BE moved his vote to Venrob is beyond me.

I'll catch up after my history exam tomorrow.

[DoctorEagle]

Uh, DP completely ignored my FoS on JS earlier, so I need to talk to him and ask about his read on JS. For me, he's scum.

[DoctorEagle]

Well, DP hasn't responded on my QT, but I still want to vote JS because he's not really sticking to his reads and he's not voting for his scum reads. The other thing is, I don't really see the scumness in pieguy, so we only have 5 hours left...

VOTE: JacobSavage

[DoctorEagle]

Seriously... Two PRs in one day. Something is not right here, I just don't see two PRs manage to look so scummy.

We need a lynch so,
VOTE: pieguyn

[DoctorEagle]

Ald, there's a Strongman in this game. So he's not 100% scum.

P-Edit: nvm.

[DoctorEagle]

I need to reread, brb.

[DoctorEagle]

What I meant, I typed it out quickly before the wagon even starts, I didn't want people going "LOL YEAH, HE'S SCUM :3"

[DoctorEagle]

Strongman indicates that he could escape a jailkeeping, roleblocking or a doctor protection. Or even a commute.

Since when did strongman work against a Body Guard? Thats what I want to know. It seems illogical.

Why did you lynch pie yesterday? I had him as town.

DP

[DoctorEagle]

Alright, I did a quick reread and, here are my thoughts.

I'm not feeling great about VA, I don't know if she is actively lurking, but she needs to post more.

TNE and Hiraki, can you explain your town read on me?

Also, I have a gut scumread on TNE, and Brain might be scum too. I need to ISO Brain/TNE.

[DoctorEagle]

Because Im on a sitewide V/LA that ends today, so you'll get your chance later Cherry

[DoctorEagle]

Sifted through Brian's ISO, there are some posts that I like and some I don't, so I can't really call him town or scum. Also, ETL's post made me lol, sorry about that Brian!

Still can't shake the gut feeling of TNE.

Also, Hiraki, if I'm not town, then how the hell did I make your "We are not lynching this guy" list on Day 1?

VOTE: Hiraki

[DoctorEagle]

I need to know why "pieguy is scum".

I would like to know this as well. I'm townreading pieguy.

Unvote
Vote: pieguy

You know there's 3 scum and not 2 right? I like IP's points on you.

A+ for the quick flip flop on the pieguy wagon.

"Why are people scum reading him, i read him as town"
40 posts later
BAM!

Yeah I guess my vote is being kinda useless atm anyway.

I can buy jacob scum case

Unvote
Vote: JacobSavage

Now youre just building towards any wagon that goes to you at this point.

It's like you aren't even reading the thread.

And doesn't want to engage with me because he knows I can read him (I have hydra'd with DP)

I actually just love the fact that me NOT being here because I was V/LA for two weeks, it was site wide btw, means that I am avoiding you.

Actually, I just love the fact that we hydra'd and you know exactly how we went and disagreed with reads, which explains BE not voting for you, yet somehow when it comes to a situation elsewhere, youre quick to call scum on it.

You wanna dance?

VOTE: Sakura Hana

[DoctorEagle]

Hiraki, I had you leaning town by gut. Thats all really.

And I think I've explained my ETL suspicion quite well. In my first few posts.

This is to Brian.
First off, i dont think you've answered my early question to you. Why is it that Venrob voting for Ank scummy, yet you did the exact same thing? I find it highly hypocritical of you to just call him out on doing the same thing you did. Be it timing or whatever, it bothers me that you pretty much moved your vote when a)Ank called you town and b) you voted for someone for doing something you did as well.

If you look at posts 136 and 163, you'll see this in order.
"I dont get the Sakura wagon"
"Based on pieguy's logic, Sakura and Venrob is a possible scum team"

Ohh you did answer my question in post198
Wait, no you didnt, you just said "oh hey, glad you noticed"

My response to you in 119 and this goes for IP as well is the fact that you've been calling Venrob scum (for the same thing you did, mind you) to the point that even him claiming he got us out of RVS was something useless yet you felt the need to comment on something so petty. Its bothersome. It just screams either "tunnelvision" or "more discrediting"

And. I still cant get 238 in regards to Sakura. You "claim" to not like the wagon, and think she's scum as well? Its like youre dissociating yourself while claiming credit for thinking she's scum, thats soft.

Aside from all of that, I (Doctor-fucking-Pepper) have had you at leaning scum in my initial reads. Your later posts, such as this. As well as your random accusation of me, which only came in snippets of "I suspect DE" without an explanation, and only gave explanations when other people have, its skeevy.

After Sakura, I want you,

[DoctorEagle]

Hiraki, it's still a townread, it doesn't matter if it's Day 7 or Day 1. I want you to explain it.

@493, eh, it's a very, very minor scumslip.

I would be voting Hiraki, but DP has stuff to do with Sakura.

[DoctorEagle]

DP head will catch up after my fever goes away, hopefully later tonight

[DoctorEagle]

Eagle go yell at your other head to get in here I need to talk to him about Sak

DP is sick, so you are stuck with me. <3

Tell me about Hiraki, ns. The slot feels hollow to me. And how familiar are you with all the players in this game?

Are you asking this because you know what you're going to hear?

This explanation only makes it look worse, since I see town coming to this conclusion and clearing the air while initially seeing the case rather than after everything happens. At the very least, the thought process would be more obvious instead of just "OH WAIT ALSO META".

You are spared one night, notscience

.

Unvote, Vote: Aduskkel

Trying to line up lynches, huh?

VOTE: Hiraki

Also, you didn't seem to answer my question about the Day 1 no lynch thing.

[DoctorEagle]

Wassup ns.

I thought you were "metashifting". I dont see that now for some reason. Based on your posting, normally I'd call you town, because this is how you are as town. More trolly. BUT I'm kinda worried that youre using this as a crutch, especially since you've supposedly "meta shifted".

Im actually surprised you didnt immediately vote for ETL though, after calling her scum in your second post.

Sakura, I will answer your questions after catching up

[DoctorEagle]

466 Brian, this is a huge LIE. You voted him right AFTER he voted for Anakimus, not his reaction to the wagon. Besides, when has voting for a self voter been scummy?

I dont see TNE scum actually, and right now I have an ns townread. The TNE scum thing seems to stem from Inactivity, which TNE being an Engineering student and a chronic replacee, I understand. None of it is alignment indicative.

If you had thought a vote on Ank would lead to a wagon on you, why do it anyway? To gauge reactions? If so, why vote for the next person to do so?

467 Brian, the point is, Im having a hard time understanding why you cant understand a wagon yet also agree with it. Its like saying "I don't think she's scum but I'll agree with it so I WONT be accountable if something goes wrong"

Note two things. First, I already pointed out that Venrob's vote on 21 directly led to your vote on 23, and VA voted for him in 22.
You voted for Venrob not for the reasons you stated, dont make yourself look good when you obviously just voted him because WAGON. Second, I emphasized that you were either tunneling or discrediting, I had two points there and was leaning towards discrediting, which you ignored. The issue with you tunneling is that youre nitpicking everything he says, which I felt in this case was more of a discredit.

477 Sakura, you flip flop a lot. Does it make it not scummy? Its always easy to excuse a scummy action as "Its not alignment indicative, especially when the action is self preservationist in nature. How so? Because I've mentioned you're going for any viable wagon, because you know that youre a viable wagon for many people here. Thus youre going to others to prevent yours from going through.

Your response to my 463 was bad.
1. Youre using my INACTIVITY to call me scummy, even when general inactivity isn't even a scumtell in itself (and maybe the prods on a HYDRA should indicate that neither of us were lurking or avoiding, just not reading maybe because of Real Life), but the fact that you claim Im scared to answer your questions is bad.
2. This is clearly a LIE. You claimed baldeagle's vote was scummy because I didn't vote for you, when clearly its hydra dissonance. When hydra dissonance isn't scummy in itself, it feels like you've run out of things to throw so you reach out for the kitchen sink and call scum on (or at least point out and discredit) AN ACTION WE'VE DONE OURSELVES AND AN ACTION DONE IN EVERY HYDRA.

479 Hiraki. Why an NL on Day 2?

481 Aldus, its not town behavior, but its not scummy either actually. It could be feigned scum ignorance though, but I don't think I've ever seen that actually been played.

491 Grasping. At. Straws. How is it a scum slip when someone brings up a day action and a night phase?

545 i don't understand the train of thought with this vote.

559 I can (usually) read ns like a book.

Stahp it BE

VOTE: Sakura

[DoctorEagle]

Actually, I don't think you've ever misread me when I was scum.

[DoctorEagle]

I think scum definitely bussed, imo. Hiraki was on the wagon, (what a surprise).

Also, I think Sakura is town after that "I'll lynch myself in order to prevent a no-lynch"

NS might be scum, because I wasn't really liking TNE, so it makes him scum by PoE.

VOTE: Hiraki

[DoctorEagle]

I think scum definitely bussed, imo. Hiraki was on the wagon, (what a surprise).

Also, I think Sakura is town after that "I'll lynch myself in order to prevent a no-lynch"

NS might be scum, because I wasn't really liking TNE, so it makes him scum by PoE.

VOTE: Hiraki

Is this DP or Eagle

This is Eagle. DP hasn't posted at all during this day phase.

Ok, I believe IP's claim on the RB, and I want to vote Brian based off the claim. So I think it's Brian and Hiraki.

I would hammer, but I want to wait for DP to get in here. No point in ending the day quickly.

[DoctorEagle]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Hammering because we already had a claim.

DP

[DoctorEagle]

Well I was right about Brian.

[DoctorEagle]

Oh right, just going to ignore yesterday, eh?

Vote: InflatablePie

VOTE: Hiraki

Sure, lets go kill the conf town roleblocker. Logic.

If we aren't lynching Ank for the horrendous "scum did a no kill gambit" statement today, then we must do it tomorrow.

DP

[DoctorEagle]

there's also probably a scum in [Aldusk/Hiraki/DE] given that all of those votes had... not much or any reasons really, just piled on after the tracker claim.

this supports Sakura's logic, even if that's on the basis of her assuming Ank is scum first. not sure if that means I'm on the right track or terribly off-base again.

I thought Brian's claim was bad, but it did clear you however. And maybe Ank if there's a kill tonight.

How about we just lynch NS?

Vote: notscience

Hm? Why? I'm getting town vibes from him.

I think this is "scum NS who has given up and is just fucking around."

Given up after one vote? I think it's one vote.

Yeah, we keep Ank alive at least for one day. If there's another no kill, we maybe lynch him tomorrow. If there is a kill, we have at least two confirmed town.

Currently I'm thinking Ank scum and Jacob traitor, but I'd like to go after the most likely scum besides them.

I like this.

Oh right, just going to ignore yesterday, eh?

Vote: InflatablePie

VOTE: Hiraki

Sure, lets go kill the conf town roleblocker. Logic.

If we aren't lynching Ank for the horrendous "scum did a no kill gambit" statement today, then we must do it tomorrow.

DP

QFT.

I don't like how/that JS and DE are on the Hiraki wagon.

Why?

Hiraki is scum and I think it's either Ank/Ald. Depends on what happens tonight.

If Hiraki flips town, which I doubt this will happen, then I think it's JS and Ank/Ald. Obviously, scum could have pulled the "well there was a strongman" gambit.

[DoctorEagle]

And when I admitted that I made a mistake, did that have an effect on your vote or did you casually ignore it the second time?

@DE: Why? Well, JS's vote is OBVIOUSLY terrible. Yours is also terrible because your reason is shit. (And it's on you to prove that it isn't shit.)

Also, I want to hear why you think Hiraki-scum bussed ETL like that.

I don't want to say I'm townreading Hiraki but man are the players going after him scummy (except Sakura).

Hiraki has been going with the flow this whole game, and there's really no push from his votes. He's just coasting.

I mean, we

can

lynch Ank, I just think that in case I'm wrong again we take a lot less damage from lynching through other people.

8 alive, let's say we lynch... Aldusk or someone, go to 7. Scum miss a kill again tonight. This means they either want to frame Ank, or Ank is scum. This is LYLO as well, since if we ML and I block wrong, it's game over. They won't even kill Ank tonight since that confirms him as town, it'd be easier to no-kill and have only one confirmed town in probably-LYLO. So this plan only works if Ank is scum, if he's town it's kinda useless.

... I kind of think lynching Ank is the right move now actually.

... Also, I'd like to bring up, again, that since scum probably lack a rolecop/BP/did not recruit traitor (evidenced by no-kill + ETL slipping by saying "scum 'partner' "), Jacob is only town if scum decided to pick daytalk. Which with two people seems like a not great upgrade. And the correct play after ETL was lynched would be to take out the 'confirmed' Bodyguard, which apparently scum hit traitor...

k, I'm really really leaning towards this crazy scumteam idea.

vote Ankamius

fuck it, if he's town we can just figure this out tomorrow.

[pedit] see vote.

True, I don't really have a problem with lynching Ank. If he flips town, I'm looking at Ald and Hiraki. Maybe JS. I have a gut scumread on Ald and JS

could

be scum for claiming BG and going with the "Well, there was a strongman" gambit.

[DoctorEagle]

And when I admitted that I made a mistake, did that have an effect on your vote or did you casually ignore it the second time?

Whoops forgot to respond to this comment in my last post.

What mistake? It appears you are gonna need to quote it for me.

[DoctorEagle]

DP, how does notscience act when shit like that happens?

He blows up. Like when we caught scum in Newbie 1407 and didnt commit to it while losing in lylo. He got pissed after game.

NS is town.

[DoctorEagle]

So... should we lynch JS then?

Um. No.

If I'm wrong and JS

is

town, I die tonight. What does this accomplish?

vote Alduskkel

This is quite confusing. If you think JS is scum, when exactly do you want to lynch him?

Not sold on Ald, I agree with Eagle on Hiraki or Ank actually.

[DoctorEagle]

Ok, I'm fine with a Ank lynch.

If Ank is scum, then it's either JS or Hiraki as the last scum. Depends if IP is alive tomorrow, if he's alive, then it's probably Hiraki. If IP dies, then it's JS.

If Ank is town, then it either JS/Hiraki or Ald/Hiraki.

VOTE: Ankankius

I know I probably failed on the spelling.

[DoctorEagle]

I think that's L-2.

[DoctorEagle]

Is it just me or does DE get on any wagon that looks like it's going to get a lynch? First Hiraki and now Ankamius.

Oh, sorry for voting for my scumreads. :/

DE do you have a townread on anyone who is not IP or Sakura?

Yeah. JS is town unless if IP dies while JS is alive. Depending on Ank's flip, you are probably town if Ank flips scum and scum if Ank flips town. Again, it depends on if IP dies while JS is alive.

eh I guess it depends on what Ank flips, too.

I think I'll keep it secret.

Keep it a secret. It works best that way.

[DoctorEagle]

So in other words, you have NO townreads in the group of people actually up for a lynch. Good to know that you can hop onto anyone you like.

?

Are you against PoE?

Also, I did call JS town and you town depending on Ank's flip. Thanks for the misrep though.

[DoctorEagle]

Oh, I forgot about this game.

Catching up now...

[DoctorEagle]

Well, now we know scum thought that they wouldn't be blocked by IP (or decided to take the risk).

I'm still inclined to lynch DE or NS, though.

Moreso NS after Ankamius flipped scum.

pedit: I don't want to lynch JS when we still have at least 3 lynches. I will only even

consider

it if we're down to 2 lynches.

Pretty sure that NS is town.

[DoctorEagle]

btw I submitted a no-block last night to see if scum would gambit/frame Jacob.

looks like it worked.

discuss.

What made you think that scum would do this?

[DoctorEagle]

Torn between Hiraki/Ald as the last scum atm.

[DoctorEagle]

Anyone could've made that post. It's not townie enough.

I have a hard time seeing why the last scum would say the things ns is saying. Especially because this is ns.
DP

[DoctorEagle]

Sorry about the prod. Been reading in on Ald and Hiraki.

I didn't even notice that I was at L-1 when I last posted. Sorry about the delay.

I'm a VT.

911 is bad, imo. Along with him, voting NS soon as he says that he sucks in LYLO.

VOTE: Alduskkel

[DoctorEagle]

Er, messed up the post tags.

911

[DoctorEagle]

I'm not ok with lynching JS, fyi.