Mini 1500:Narnia- The Lion,the Witch,and the Wardrobe Mafia

[HönigBear]

VOTE: Broken aquarium

I not-so-secretly hate you for being first to post.

[HönigBear]

Yeah me too lol, but at least now I get to make the first wagon vote and no one can take that away from me.

[HönigBear]

UNVOTE: Broken Aquarium
VOTE: mnemonicdevice

I was going to vote JKLM for being the first to cave under pressure and change his vote to his attacker but mr menmonic is waaaaaay scummier.
What if people don't want to listen to your nazi fascist orders concerning pictures? Typical scum trying to order town around.
To answer your question: I am not scum, I am town...do you believe me?
@mnemonic: are you scum?

Fun fact: Aslan in Turkish means lion (if everyone here knows this can I just replace out now)?

[HönigBear]

Alright just to clear my earlier posts up, since they seemed to have caused confusion.
Garmr voted for Broken.
Honig then voted for Broken.
I then voted for Honig, for bandwagoning.

The confusion is that Garmr's vote was slightly botched. I wanted to make it clear that whether the Mod decided that was a valid vote or not, his intent was clear enough. So Honig was wagoning.

@Garmr - so yes, my vote was serious.

However, not at all liking JKLM "I am scum " stuff. Seems like nervous scum trying waaaaaay too hard.

VOTE JKLM

Unfortunatley, I can't upload an avatar atm -have requested help on the Admin page but they are having problems.

It disturbs me that you would make a serious vote that early on in the game let alone in the RVS, particulalry while not explaining why a vote that leaves a player on L-5 is scummy and then have to explain your actions so thoroughly.
Also I don't like your vote on JKLM.
Mnemonic answer mah question plzzzzz.

[HönigBear]

VOTE: Honig

You

don't

want us out of RVS? Also, Godwin.

Broken Aquarium, care to explain why you're voting someone instead of just voting?

nthing the request for avatars.

I do want us out of RVS but I don't like the way he got us out of RVS (by voting for the first wagon to form,) especially considering his current vote: All I see from JKLM is unique playstyle, not scummy behaviour and I don't like the way moz has tried to twist it to look like such.

He's also accusing JK of being scum trying waaay too hard but moz's votes suggest that he is in fact the scum who is trying waaaaay too hard.

P.S. I don't get the "also, Godwin" reference/thing/stuff.

Never occurred to me that mozamis was being serious. As a serious vote it's terrible, but it's so bad I don't think it's scummy

I don't like this double bluff argument (but I guess that's a personal thing), any vote/behaviour in the game can be reduced to it.
What have you got to say about moz's 2nd vote?

[HönigBear]

I don't know the statistics on flips on people who choose to play like dicks like Peace here but regardless I'd like to go for the slightly more subtler scummy players and mozamis is currently leading in that category IMO.
Still if peace is the consensus lynch of the day I have no problem hammering him/voting him if other wagons clearly won't work and if he continues to play like posts 51 and 52.
Skelda out of interest, did that argument work when you were scum i.e. was it effective? Also what breed of goat is that?

[HönigBear]

Rofl how do you find these gifs? I would have never thought they existed.

Oh shit I actually haven't voted for moz

UNVOTE: MnemonicDevice

VOTE: Mozamis

[HönigBear]

what you on about?
There's only 1 vote on you.
Skelda gave reasons as to why he jumped on the peace wagon but even if he hadn't, can you really blame him considering how peace is playing right now?

[HönigBear]

Godwin's Law.

Honig, is it possible to sit any more firmly on that fence re Peacebringer? We're on page 3 of day 1 - there is no way we have a consensus lynch at this point, and now who's looking to end the day? And however we get out of RVS, we're out of it now. How is that a bad thing?

Peacebringer isn't striking me as scummy so much as uncommitted, that he's showing up but not really making even the barest of efforts. Anti town != scummy.

Broken Aquarium is fluffposting (see posts 42 and 43). And yeah, I meant explain the logic behind your votes. Actually, this applies to many people at this point, which does not make me happy.

@ mod - isn't Shane still voting mozamis?

>>this is fixed<<

What you see as "fencesitting" I see as FoS (or something like that, I hate actually typing out FoS).
Voting for peacebringer (if he continues to not scumhunt, ask questions and explain his votes) would be like throwing the dice, I mean if that's really the way he plays (that being not playing) then he could just as easily be scum as he could be town and like I said before I'd rather my vote be on someone I think is scum rather than the lottery, and I never said he was scummy either (quote me if I did).

What's wrong with setting up long-term plans even if it is page 3, like I said: if Peace's attitude remains constant then so will my actions against him.
How the hell does me saying what I would do in a hypothetical scenario mean I want to end the day?
And where the hell did I say that it's a bad thing that we're out of RVS...honestly what I said was that scum are just as likely to end RVS as town are (unless there's some absolute stats which contradict me about which I didn't know).

I really don't like the way you're making me out to be scummier than what my posts say, It's not even a different interpretation, it's clear misrepresntation.
And what the hell was the hell was the point of you bringing up aquarium's posts 42 and 43, honestly are you seeing scum in that too?
I see a lot of something like certainty (maybe it's confidence I don't know) in your posts and certainty is something only scum have so needless to say I've got my eye on you margie.

Side note: I acknowledge Moz's odd vote hopping (could be scum trying to distract, could be without-a-clue townie...but honestly you'd think he'd be more serious if he was the latter) I want to see how he keeps playing and check for inconsistency which I plan to compare and contrast with his past games (if he has any). Still see him as scummiest though so my vote is staying.

I think skelda gave as valid a reason as any. Honestly when it comes to players like Peace, scum could be on his wagon as easily as town, so I can't understand why you're saying that

that

particular person is scum out of the entire wagon (I actually do have a 1 game experience of this).

JKLM when will you be able to say the stuff you can't say right now?

[HönigBear]

It disturbs me that you would make a serious vote that early on in the game let alone in the RVS

, particulalry while not explaining why a vote that leaves a player on L-5 is scummy and then have to explain your actions so thoroughly.
Also I don't like your vote on JKLM.
Mnemonic answer mah question plzzzzz.

1)
I see the bolded as wanting to stay in RVS. What is wrong with serious votes early?

2) Honig, you're going to fos (or whatever) someone you see as null?

And you don't see the scumminess in this post:

I don't know the statistics on flips on people who choose to play like dicks like Peace here but regardless I'd like to go for the slightly more subtler scummy players and mozamis is currently leading in that category IMO.
Still if peace is the consensus lynch of the day I have no problem hammering him/voting him if other wagons clearly won't work and if he continues to play like posts 51 and 52.
Skelda out of interest, did that argument work when you were scum i.e. was it effective? Also what breed of goat is that?

3a) I mean, there is a point to lynching VIs/trolls/lurkers/people who aren't actually going to play the game on day 1, but the whole I'll vote him but not really thing - 3b) take a stance, call him out on not actually playing - 3c) the wording here just screams scum at me, especially considering how early it is on day 1 (and nothing in that post suggests that you're looking ahead to the end of the day). You don't know what is going to come up during the course of the day, so given how remarkably little information there is, it just seems like any plans are going to have to change, so why make them now instead of seeing what happens?

4)Really, though, Honig, you're awfully upset about one person in a 13 player game finding two early posts scummy - why are you so defensive, so concerned about my suspicion of you? I want out of RVS early, so I poke at people - and you just completely melted down, which is really interesting considering how little pressure you were under, and that in and of itself is scummier than anything else that I voted you for.

I pointed out BA's fluffposting because I saw it, and I wanted other people to be aware of it. What's wrong with that?

These posts:

Nice. So 3 votes on me for no reason. and 4 votes on peacebringer. Also because of his playstyle.

I also like how Skelda just randomly jumps on the peacebringer wagon. RVS much?

Interesting. Someone is already at L-1.

are problematic. Note that, for the first one, mnemonic's vote was still on project matt - which he essentially admitted was a RVS vote - yet he's expressing suspicion of Skelda. Why leave an RVS vote in place when there is actual content, about which you are expressing an opinion, to base votes on?

@Project Matt I'm going to call you out through and ask why did you Vote Mozamis with out listing any reasons. I would actually like to hear some insight on how the game is going.

I'm not one that finds it necessary to supply large amounts of content at the beginning of the game as most of it is guesswork. This is why my first few posts have just been observations. I'll provide actual analysis soon since we're moving out of that stage.

Specifically, I very much disliked his attack on PeaceBringer and his attacks looked not like excited town but opportunistic scum.

Unvote

There is absolutely no way that a lynch is going through or a claim is being made yet.

Matt, if nobody supplies content at the beginning of the game, then where does the content come from?

I'm actually not seeing the mozamis suspicion. I see a failed joke and some vote hopping, but I really don't think that's a reliable tell this close to the beginning of the game, where we're just starting to see things coming out.

Can we drop the meta-that-may-not-be-discussed? Meta generally sucks, flirting with the edge of discussing ongoing games also sucks, doing so in an attempt to avoid saying anything for real keeps games from going anywhere.

You and I clearly have very different points of view.

1)

The issue is not so much that the vote was "serious" but because it was described as being such with the reason for which it was placed being: "you formed the first bandwagon". That's like me saying my first RVS vote was serious.

2)

Yes I am going to FoS him and I am going to keep FoS'ing him. Just in case my interpretation of the term is different it means I'm going to be keeping an eye on him, his votes and people who vote for him as well continuously to see if patterns change. Why are you implying that FoS'ing someone who you think is null (yet is displaying anti-town behaviour) is bad? I am really going to lol if you start telling me that anti-town = scum.

3a)

I would love to debate the first line of that paragraph even though I agree it is somewhat open to interpretation but in peacebringer's case I firmly believe it is not because a number of people have said this is how he normally plays which, while it is anti-town, it definitely does not equate to being scummy especially if he has played like this as town and as scum.

3b)

Sorry I am not and refuse to be captain obvious, does it mean I am scum for noting yet refusing to shout out what 3 people before me did?

3c)

I'm pretty sure I explicitly said that those were my plans FOR NOW and that if peace's playstyle changes to becoming more analytical I will change my stance but because I'm too lazy/busy I'm not going to bother to verify that claim. On the off chance that I didn't explicitly say that, I am saying it now.

4)

I am concerned because I feel it is an unjustified suspicion. And once again, points of view issue: you see meltdown, I see attempt at thorough defense against flawed suspicions bordering on clear misrepresentation. Pressure has nothing to do with it it's the wrongful attack that's the problem and I don't see why you're implying that only people under pressure should bother defending themselves.
Moz got to a very low L number (did he actually reach L-1?) but he didn't even blink. I feel like it deserves your comment.

And finally what your last paragraph directed towards me is saying is that right now I am, according to you, the scummiest player here because I have chosen to defend myself. Could just be a point of view thing again though cos funnily enough moz is still the scummiest person to me here because he refused to defend himself at all and/or provided terrible defenses.
Also I feel it's scummy that he's the

second

(lol @ townwagon) person to spend a whole post just calling me town but not saying why especise more especially after how much I have and continue to focus on him.

Gotta admit I haven't had much time to look at the recent exchanges I've only just skimmed through them and this has been a busy weekend for me so I'll analyse them Tuesday/Wednesday when I have more time.

[HönigBear]

I would have defended myself the same regardless of the number of people voting for me but I can't really defend myself now that you're voting for me because I'm defending myself apart from saying that just because townies outnumber scum doesn't mean townies shouldn't defend themselves, it's in both their interests. Should I just let myself be lynched without saying a word? How exactly does that help town?

Scumhunting is still a problem for me though because I'm still lost in this thread, I really don't know who voted for who and why. I'll really try to make an effort tomorrow though.

[HönigBear]

Moz do you still think I'm town and if so why?

[HönigBear]

Rofl I'm loving this, now you're telling me I'm scum for asking why someone who I think is scummy thinks I'm town. Please walk me through your thought processes.
I really just simply absolutely find it just inexplicably horrendously incomprehensibly difficult to understand why you would deal with such absolutes and extremes especially in this part of the game, (i'm looking at smar and bro here).

(examples: "scum don't want RVS to end" - DUDE, RVS ALWAYS ENDS, whether it's half a day later or sooner barely matters, it mostly depends on the number of people who post and I'm sorry but unless you're playing a 5 person game I don't see why you would seriously (and seriously in this case means the guy had appreciably more than a 1/13 chance) vote for the first guy to come on a wagon when it's fucking 7 votes to a lynch)

"only scum/scum are more likely to defend themselves/defend themselves vehemently" - oh well excuse me for thinking that this is a dialogue-based game and I should just shut up instead of offering my viewpoint on things (isn't that why we bother to say who we think is scum and vote for them, by trying to discuss and carry our viewpoints forward?) As for vehemence and thoroughness that depends on the player.

"defending yourself doesn't really matter, it only changes the opinion of one or two people" - again, I thought this was dialogue based, I suppose then that this applies to a person's attacks as well so then why do any of us bother scum hunting and asking questions at all? Why don't we all just play like peacebringer?

and now most recently: "questioning why someone think's you're town is scummy" - I have to admit this one wins the prize, especially considering the circumstances here.
Let me just describe the situation here according to how it looks to me currently: I have voted for a guy nay I have tunneled him ever since we started this game, remaining the biggest advocate for his lynch and he all of a sudden just casually names me as town (note that he also wasn't the first one to do this). I ask him ONCE why he thinks I'm town (ok the question was a bit ambiguous but still, obviously the guy isn't particularly attentive) and now I ask him again. And even after I ask him again he still refuses to answer me and instead sees it as a valid excuse to call me scum while avoiding the question.

In general town reads are analogous to scum reads in the sense that they MUST BE EXPLAINED (what's the point of saying you think someone is town or scum without saying why, you guys hate on peacebringer (ok I do as well but still) but your logic here is exactly the same, actually no it's worse because you guys are saying that one thing is ok and another is bad: asking someone why they think you're scum is ok but why they think you're town is bad!?) and I wanted him to explain himself. Oh and thanks everyone for not noticing that he didn't fucking answer my question.

Asking moz why he thinks I'm town is my best attempt at scum hunting so far recently because I have been busy and can't deliver on my promises to look at the other interactions like the whole mnemonic and projectmatt thing (if you were to lynch me for that I'd have nothing against it lol), I will try and do it on the weekend but I honestly can't promise anything.
But if you lynch me because of all the bs aforementioned reasons then I hope at least my town flip will change your mindset concerning "how scum play and how town play"...(no please gimme some more of that circular logic/I can do psychological analyses on posts crap and tell me how this defeatist attitude is scummy, please I beg you to).

Oh yeah I think I might as well throw in some reads here while I'm at it.

smargaret: town
Awful logic but there's no way scum would so "vehemently" (as she puts it) pursue me and be the first one on my wagon even if it is to protect partner moz. This would be extremely risky play (knowing that I will flip town) and there's no way she could survive day 2.

mozamis: I want this guy lynched
Hasn't posted any good content, his posts are 80% fluff and unoriginal, at worst if he flips town it won't be much of a loss (this logic applies to peace as well but in moz's case I am more than 1/12 sure that he's scum). And yeah he refuses to answer my question.

Alien: could easily be scum
I have to admit I'm not in the calmest of moods writing this but he has parroted smargaret's arguments and seems eager to defend moz, this is telling me he's eager to look like an engineer of the wagon rather than someone just along for the ride (like skelda was confused of being). He's playing deputy engineer though knowing smar will get all the flak when I flip town cos she was first on the wagon and he can always have the excuse that he genuinely thought I was scum (this excuse is his accusations which are really smarg's but rephrased). However this analysis is solely based on his attitude towards me, I need to ISO him and look at other interactions before I can have a better picture.

As for everyone else, need to ISO which may or may not happen depending on my mood (sorry, but feel free to lynch me for that or vote for whether you want me replaced or something if that's a thing I dunno).
Btw did you noticed how I explained my reads instead of just stating them?

[HönigBear]

I would have defended myself the same regardless of the number of people voting for me but I can't really defend myself now that you're voting for me because I'm defending myself apart from saying that just because townies outnumber scum doesn't mean townies shouldn't defend themselves, it's in both their interests. Should I just let myself be lynched without saying a word? How exactly does that help town?

Scumhunting is still a problem for me though because I'm still lost in this thread, I really don't know who voted for who and why. I'll really try to make an effort tomorrow though.

1) The issue isn't that town shouldn't defend themselves. It's that town shouldn't care about 1-2 erroneous reads. Townies don't want to get mislynched, true, but they also have another interest in play: finding scum. Scum don't have that interest, they want to make themselves and their partners look as town as possible (until the bussing happens).

2) Or can you not scumhunt because you are scum...

Nope, town should defend themselves no matter the number of wrong reads. They absolutely should scum hunt as well and the latter should obviously be a bigger concern.
However like I said I've been busy/bored and can't be bothered to read the whole thread again while on the other hand defending one's self is much easier if not as useful. I hope you can see that I did scumhunt in the beginning but that was before school started and now I have more on my plate (asking moz that question is a type of scumhunting though, especially since he refused to answer it). So like I said, weekend eventually.