NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[ffullisade]

also in case I didn't make myself clear in my above post

hi thad hi

have a seat

[ffullisade]

who is in your town pile. I would like to know plz.

quite a few actually:
peregrine
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade
nero
desp

okay so will you consider from us on who to nk?

also I promise to use padded handcuffs

gonna get with fery and get a composite of our reads. I probably need to update our spreadsheet.

<<< See, this is why you don't rely on me to fix things. I

think

I fixed the broken tag, but I'm not sure. >>>

[ffullisade]

So your'e saying that others are giving lame reasons

not lame reasons, no reasons, plus the majority of the content in the voting posts arn't even about me. You don't find that curious at all arc? put aside your blood thirst for a moment and analyze that.

ArcAngel, this post is not anything like the scum-seanald I saw in the vengeball game I played with him.

- f

[ffullisade]

So you've decided that the vengeball is OK to use as a meta baseline?

It will have to do for this game. Posts far enough outside that range are attention-getting, for sure.

[ffullisade]

So your'e saying that others are giving lame reasons

not lame reasons, no reasons, plus the majority of the content in the voting posts arn't even about me. You don't find that curious at all arc? put aside your blood thirst for a moment and analyze that.

I did and that didn't work. Cephirr is far more scummy than you're...but unfortunately nobody seem to notice that.

So you've decided that the vengeball is OK to use as a meta baseline?

It will have to do for this game. Posts far enough outside that range are attention-getting, for sure.

Alright. If not Seanald and not Nero, where are you guys looking next?

I want to know what exactly going on with ffullisade. A while i remember your hydra mentioned that mollie doesn't read me town. Is that changed? I am curious.

When we last talked, Mollie and I agreed that you aren't scum this game.

@despo Mollie and I have some catch-up to do today when we're both on gchat at the same time.

[ffullisade]

Despo #4495 reminds me a lot like Adam's post in Jiffy's game.

@Fery:

You and Mollie were agreeing we were town read to you guys at some point? Can you explain that further please?

~

first off which post of adam's I mean adam had like 600 posts in that game but you seem to have a specific 1 in mind. so can you post it here and compare? cos I think desperado and adam are as different as night and day like I don't think desp is a dickhead at all. tbh that comparison looks like you are talking out of your ass and throwing mud to see what sticks.

you are also being needy as hell with these freaking inane questions and I mean the both of you. and ftr I haven't moved you to my town pile cos I did not wake you up when you went apeshit, you had already posted a good 15 minutes before you posted in this game in another part of the board. so you were lying about that and it still isn't sitting right with me.

[ffullisade]

You know what you did this recently in a finished game where people accused you of playing to your scum meta (lurking and passive) and you went apeshit there. How about you calm down and admit I go apeshit when people don't give me enough time to move from game to game.

Yay for candlejack!!!

~

was it the clueless game cos I think I was scum there

[ffullisade]

@ desp

my behaviour was appallingly bad in that game and I regret it. thor gave me some good advice tho.

[ffullisade]

Despo #4495 reminds me a lot like Adam's post in Jiffy's game.

@Fery:

You and Mollie were agreeing we were town read to you guys at some point? Can you explain that further please?

~

first off which post of adam's I mean adam had like 600 posts in that game but you seem to have a specific 1 in mind. so can you post it here and compare? cos I think desperado and adam are as different as night and day like I don't think desp is a dickhead at all. tbh that comparison looks like you are talking out of your ass and throwing mud to see what sticks.

you are also being needy as hell with these freaking inane questions and I mean the both of you. and ftr I haven't moved you to my town pile cos I did not wake you up when you went apeshit, you had already posted a good 15 minutes before you posted in this game in another part of the board. so you were lying about that and it still isn't sitting right with me.

my gawd Mollie.

This was towards Fery. She made a comment towards Nacho and I read it once upon a time you guys shared a read on us that was not-scum. So I asked for explanation.

I guess it's not the same. I swear I thought he did spoilers like Despo did, but he didn't. So forget it.

You know what you

~

fery here. Since I joined the game, my read on you has changed back and forth several times. Mollie did a hard 180 on you, and I think you're aware of the stuff that contributed to that, but she's softened that stance.

You are a difficult combination of players to read because I have trouble reading you both individually. Especially Mara, but I think I have some insights now into both her town and scum game.

I am not sure what you are asking for, tbh.

[ffullisade]

bacde

I have some stuff to talk about. You around?

- f

[ffullisade]

mollie what do you think about peregrine?

I have played a million games with perv and I still can't read him

but the fact that I keep forgetting that he is even playing reminds of adventure time....and all of his other games.

[ffullisade]

Fflu, I also said in that post that I had been away for the weekend, if I say I was away for the weekend does that sound like I've been reading? It's poor reasoning to want to lynch someone for going V/LA.

I have a town read on Fflu and CTD right now. Still feeling scum on Nero.

Slandaar contradicted himself in post 4444 he refers to me as the town watcher and then puts me at the top of his scumlist in post 4557. Which is it? I could definitely see Cephir as scum.

Still paranoid about Kahn and Nacho, possibly a little bit with CTD.

I forgot Peregrin was even playing this game, same with Penguin. Both are in my null category.

I'm seeing Desparado as town now, perhaps he needs to be pushed again later just to make sure, since he reacts funny when he's pushed.

I don't think we should be directing the *claimed* vig. That would give scum information on where he is targetting so if they have a roleblocker, they could block him from making that kill and if they have a Jailkeeper, they could jailkeep one of their own. Maybe redirect. That's loads of possibilities, I expect the scum team to be quite powerful.

wrt the bold: claims were made over a week ago mebbe 2 weeks. and you still managed to miss them. so you being on v/la is pretty freaking irrelevant since they happened

before

you went on v/la. all that you are clarifying for everyone is that you paid as much attention on v/la as you did when you weren't.

talking with fery but I say we lynch this shit

there is so much in this post that I want to lynch it is not funny

[ffullisade]

y u so quiet?

You helicopter in occasionally to push a Nacho lynch, but don't seem to really care about anything else in the game.

[ffullisade]

We want to lynch Rena.

I mean Molly is like screaming about it right now.

[ffullisade]

Also, AK I thought we were in the middle of a conversation or something? What happened?

- f

[ffullisade]

We want to lynch Rena.

I mean Molly is like screaming about it right now.

Yeah but if someone else had visited me instead of Rena wouldn't they have claimed by now?

How big an if was that on night 1?

Rena is probably a scum roleblocker and town doesn't have the cajones to lynch it

VOTE: Rena

[ffullisade]

Also, AK I thought we were in the middle of a conversation or something? What happened?

- f

Mala is currently trying to die. My head is hurting so damn bad from this cold I'm on like 3 meds and nothing is helping. Nor is looking at the computer/phone screen.

We can continue this friday at the earliest before I go on vacation..

My main question was when was the first time you started to town read us?

(I did a candlejack one of my other posts so that "you know" was an accidental mistype with not a complete thought.


~

I don't remember when. You were null for quite a while, though definitely in benefit of the doubt territory. I am still not sure if I have a towntell or two actually identified or if they're conicidental.

[ffullisade]

Also, AK I thought we were in the middle of a conversation or something? What happened?

- f

Mala is currently trying to die. My head is hurting so damn bad from this cold I'm on like 3 meds and nothing is helping. Nor is looking at the computer/phone screen.

We can continue this friday at the earliest before I go on vacation..

My main question was when was the first time you started to town read us?

(I did a candlejack one of my other posts so that "you know" was an accidental mistype with not a complete thought.


~

probably when we first town read you and you were happy about it

this is what I mean by inane questions

[ffullisade]

Also, AK I thought we were in the middle of a conversation or something? What happened?

- f

Mala is currently trying to die. My head is hurting so damn bad from this cold I'm on like 3 meds and nothing is helping. Nor is looking at the computer/phone screen.

We can continue this friday at the earliest before I go on vacation..

My main question was when was the first time you started to town read us?

(I did a candlejack one of my other posts so that "you know" was an accidental mistype with not a complete thought.


~

I don't remember when. You were null for quite a while, though definitely in benefit of the doubt territory. I am still not sure if I have a towntell or two actually identified or if they're conicidental.

majiffy and I town read them. it was early on d1.

[ffullisade]

Why the fuck is bulba in the lynch lead?

- f

[ffullisade]

guys rena is scum like for realz

[ffullisade]

town is ctd, desperado, penguin, seanalderina, arc mebbe nacho mebbe nero

eta: fery and I are talking it over

[ffullisade]

my mentor once got a cop[ed town on a player. he trusted his own read over the cop read and the player flipped godfather. wish I could do shit like that.

play has to support claimed role and rena's doesn't. can we plz lynch her in the next day round?

the thing with slaandy is if he is scum then I literally do not know what to think. he has been the single player who's line of thought resembles my own <--- that is why I am town reading him. bulba is a strong town read to fery so that is our predicament.

[ffullisade]

hey bulba why don't you give a final list of your reads

[ffullisade]

my mentor once got a cop[ed town on a player. he trusted his own read over the cop read and the player flipped godfather. wish I could do shit like that.

play has to support claimed role and rena's doesn't. can we plz lynch her in the next day round?

.

I've never played a watcher role. I can count on one hand how many time's I've played town power role. I'm just winging it because I don't know proper watcher play.

in thread you play the same as vt if you are already outed. you are not doing 1 thing to scumhunt nor are you acting like a special who is going to be nked. you are skating and the only reason people are giving you slack is cos of your claim.

[ffullisade]

why on earth is rena your top town read holy shit

[ffullisade]

my mentor once got a cop[ed town on a player. he trusted his own read over the cop read and the player flipped godfather. wish I could do shit like that.

play has to support claimed role and rena's doesn't. can we plz lynch her in the next day round?

the thing with slaandy is if he is scum then I literally do not know what to think. he has been the single player who's line of thought resembles my own <--- that is why I am town reading him.

bulba is a strong town read to fery so that is our predicament

.

I wouldn't call it a strong town read, but I'm not happy about either him or slaandar being lynched today.

[ffullisade]

ignore the special claim

how is she town

[ffullisade]

she is skating

that is a huge case

she is not acting like she thinks she will be nked (as in handing out last minute thoughts, reads, etc). as an outed special she should be worried and she isn't.

that is another huge case

also we just beetlejuiced her into the thread

HUGE

^ those are actual legitimate objective scumtells which is better than anything you have come up with this entire game.

so your assertion that "everyone" is "refusing" to explain the case on her is a misrep. cos I just did it. I did it before and I am doing it again.

why are you ignoring this?

[ffullisade]

oh hell no

[ffullisade]

oh hell no

You can vote Slandaar too, you know. Voting to lynch the claimed town PR doesn't strike me as the best use of your vote resource.

I am not voting slaandar. why the fuck would I vote someone who's thinking is in line with my own? it has been that way all game.

the special claim is shit, look at their play. their play is scummy.

VOTE: bulba

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town.

[ffullisade]

fuck you nacho

[ffullisade]

I had to press submit 3 times to get that in

[ffullisade]

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town

[ffullisade]

not to me

[ffullisade]

NACHOOOO!

I AM GOING TO POST IN ALL CAPS THE REST IF THIS FUCKING GAME.

[ffullisade]

^^ F

[ffullisade]

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town

Gosh, it sounds like he's not totally sure about your alignment at all.

which would be the first time he has ever reconsidered his read on us. I am holding him to it.

[ffullisade]

^^ F

i don't believe you unless it's a lowercase f.

ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME

-F

[ffullisade]

I can't do it sober. I hope you guys are right.

- f

[ffullisade]

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town.

How is reevaluating scummy?

Also, I thought you were town d1. It was Thor's case on you that made me think you might be scum. I still think you are scum, but you're not the strongest scum read. Also, there are 2 teams, and some of my townreads are thinking Rena-scum. That's reason enough to reevaluate her and see how my read holds.

it is the

timing

of your re-eval.

[ffullisade]

of course it's not a scumlynch
those wagons were horrible

Too bad you weren't around to try and work something else out.

- f

[ffullisade]

nacho if slaandy flips town and bulba is scum I am going to lord it over you forever

[ffullisade]

I don't entirely disagree with it either khan but no one will lynch rena

[ffullisade]

Simplified Slandaar case:

1.) He has been doing very little scumhunting in thread. CTD says he's been doing a lot in their QT, but that still does not excuse the lack of scumhunting in the actual thread.

2.) His biggest case, which was on PV, was actually originally a case against ThAd using PV's predecessor. When it was pointed out that DLG was not ThAd's slot, Slandaar's reaction was, "Case still applies.". After the ThAd wagon fell through, he then turns around and uses the same case against PV. That's not scumhunting. That's being lazy and trying to get a lynch at all costs.

3.) He slipped and revealed that there were actually 2 teams of 4 scum in this game, rather than 2 teams of 3 scum, as everyone else was supposing. If Slandaar had come to this conclusion naturally, as others had suggested, do you not think that he would have brought it up beforehand, say when Bacde was going on about lynching the last blue scum?

4.) His reasons for thinking so are completely false. He first said that it was because he had PV and Desp. as part of the blue scum team, ignoring how such a suggestion would be unbalanced given the setup and the amount of neighborhoods. He then said that he just had a lot of scum reads, and therefore came to the conclusion of 8 scum. However, wouldn't town in that situation think, "I have too many scumreads. Some of them might be wrong." instead of "I have too many scum reads. There must be more scum in the game."?

5.) When I confronted him about him not scumhunting and pushing his scumreads, he responded with "I can't make people do anything.". This is hypocritical, since he has been trying to call me scum for saying similar things all game.

6.) After I called him out on the neighborhood lie, he then misrepped my argument and tried to paint it as me saying it was unfair, rather than unbalanced. It doesn't matter than I never talked about the fairness of it at all, he still pushed it, and was able to build up my wagon on it. Again,

it was a misrep as an attempt to get me lynched

, and it is scummy.

Hi bulba. fery here. Has this case turning out to be on a town player caused you to rethink anything about the game? If so, what?

[ffullisade]

Hi bulba. fery here. Has this case turning out to be on a town player caused you to rethink anything about the game? If so, what?

Two things:

1.) I should really stay away from setup spec. I tend to suck at it. (Doesn't stop me from trying unfortunately. )

2.) My reads are probably askew somewhere. I'm not sure what to think about you and Bacde anymore, especially after your posts at the end of d3. I was getting some genuine emotion from you. Same goes for HD, who, after going through his ISO, still confuses me when it comes to the intent behind his actions. AK essentially sucker punched me yesterday, so I'm not quite sure where I stand on her. I suspect that she's town, but I'm not sure whether I really care if she lives or dies at this point. I'm just going to leave her alone. Finally, Slandaar's flip has made me really paranoid about CTD. He still reads town to me, but he's not as strong of a townread as he used to be. I still have 2 strong scum reads, which I still trust. However, if I end up being wrong about them, then town might as well put me out of my misery, because I am obviously no use to them.

@Bacde: I still have Nacho as a strong townread, especially after the way he stepped in at the end of the day yesterday. Scum could have just hung back and coasted, but Nacho chose to stick up for his townreads. I just can't see scum doing that.

There's a rigidity to your reads list that is kind of worrisome. When I saw your list first thing today after your case on Slaandar turned out so wrong I really wasn't sure what to make of it not changing much (if at all).

I'm not sure if "you" means "you the hydra" or "you fferyllt" re genuine emotion. My contribution to the ffullisade gestalt has been pretty filtered due to the huge mountain of day 1 posts that I'll never fully explore or grasp the way someone reading the thread in real time has. Neither of us were happy with the lynch, but the town read was primarily Mollie's because she's played with him before.

[ffullisade]

There's a rigidity to your reads list that is kind of worrisome. When I saw your list first thing today after your case on Slaandar turned out so wrong I really wasn't sure what to make of it not changing much (if at all).

The list really isn't as rigid as you think. As you can see, there are degrees of reads, and they have fluctuated due to the information I have. People move up and down the list depending on new information gained from actual interaction and flips. For example, CTD moved down from the top of the town list after Slandaar's flip, which shows that I'm not as sure about him as I once was. Also, you've moved from being "scum" to "null/scum" based on what I've seen so far. I could explain each read and why they are where they are, but that'd be overkill, and I don't think anybody really wants that.

I'm not sure if "you" means "you the hydra" or "you fferyllt" re genuine emotion.

I tend to consider hydras as a whole, but I'm probably referring more to the Mollie head, as I think that yesterday's paranoia was coming from her.

Yeah, she was the one who really freaked about you and the last minute votes to flip the lynch onto Slaandar.

I was the one posting shouties at Nacho for bitching about the main wagons when it was too late to do anything about them.

Mollie is still pretty damn paranoid about you.

I'm not sure yet what I think.

[ffullisade]

FFS

someone give me someone to sheep who isn't Nacho or Bulb or Nero or Ffery/mollie or Bacde

Mala is out of commission for a while so...

Tell me how

I

have led you astray this game plz.

- f

[ffullisade]

Mollie is still pretty damn paranoid about you.

I'm not sure yet what I think.

Which is funny, because normally you're the one who is paranoid about me.

baselines are funny things.

[ffullisade]

FFS

someone give me someone to sheep who isn't Nacho or Bulb or Nero or Ffery/mollie or Bacde

Mala is out of commission for a while so...

where did I lead you astray?

you pushed on a retarded case

that I actually seriously considered

and you have nothing to say except you....don't trust mine or fery's reads?

@ bulba

so you have nacho as town cos you.....said he was scum if you got lynched and then he came in and saved you? lol

I cannot decide who I want to lynch moar, ak or bulba

and I am very unhappy with nacho

[ffullisade]

I've been pondering whether EddieFenix breadcrumbed his N1 rolecop results on day 2.

I kinda think he did. And I kinda don't think they were incriminating.

Townzorz are Nero, CTD, Bacde, AK, Ceph

Scumzorz are Bulbazak, ThAd, Rena

The rest of you wish you were cool, but really aren't so much.

I agree with some of this.

- f

[ffullisade]

@ bulba

so you have nacho as town cos you.....said he was scum if you got lynched and then he came in and saved you? lol

I said that anybody who refused to take a position on the wagons (slandaar, me, or "it's plurality, so no") needed to be looked at come d4. I did not know at that time that Nacho was V/LA, as I would not have put him on that list of 3 players who had not taken a side. At no point did I say he was a scum read.

In fact, his actions yesterday reaffirm my town read on him, since as scum he could have just used V/LA as an excuse for why he wasn't in the thread and have coasted while letting both wagons take their natural course

.

and this is what is fucked up. you should

not

be reading him as town because of that I mean you mention his name and he pops in within the hour to move the lynch off of you while he was on v/la.

you should be questioning that, not town reading it cos if I were you I would be pretty fucking suspicious.

and you saying that if you knew he was on v/la you would never have brought up his is :/

[ffullisade]

the town read looks forced as hell

about as forced as your scum read on nero and us is. I mean you are doing mental gymnastics in order to justify a sticky terribad read.

[ffullisade]

The fact that neither of these are reaching full majority bugs me.

@Mastin- I hate deadline lynches. Just so you know.

<<< Would you rather have a failure to reach majority result in a no-lynch today? How 'bout day one? This game's long enough as it is already, no-lynching would make it go on for even longer. Plus...If you couldn't tell...I hate deadline no-lynches, just so you know. >>>

@Slandaar-I searched your Iso for "Crash" and "CTD" and QT, just to see if you mentioned anything regarding it.
You didn't, except to say Crash is town a few times.

Since I don't know why you feel this way, it's either real, or artificial.

Since your cases on other players seem artificial, this townread is looking the same way too. How is it not "worth" your time to explain why your neighbor is town?

Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Hey Peregrine why were you working so hard to herd votes onto Slandaar yesterday?

- f

[ffullisade]

Was less than pleased with QT last night. Bulba was not my first choice for a bullet.

But, we are now divining the setup to be 2 scumteams, each with a roleblocker, that each managed to block a PR without doubling up on either?

I think that's stretching it somewhat.

Vote: Nachomamma

ThAd, possible suggestion for next time you take a shot.

Don't discuss your target on the QT.

I have a bad feeling about Perigrine.

- f

[ffullisade]

I am with the other head even though bulba and ak make me

[ffullisade]

@ bulba

Why are you speculating on what Khan did or didn't do, especially when you're not pushing anybody? We have no clue who Khan jail kept or why. What this looks like is you trying to soft push a wagon without actually being on it.

so what wagon is penguin trying to push?

there isn't a wagon on ctd and penguin is not voting anybody

[ffullisade]

Mollie I think it's a bad read to expect someone to think like you. Your attacks on Bulb aren't looking to get into his head at all.

Ffery, I would like to seriously connect. I don't think we've made an effort lately but it sort of needs to be done.

I did kinda quit making an effort, yes. What is on the agenda?

[ffullisade]

I've been pondering whether EddieFenix breadcrumbed his N1 rolecop results on day 2.

I kinda think he did. And I kinda don't think they were incriminating.

Townzorz are Nero, CTD, Bacde, AK, Ceph

Scumzorz are Bulbazak, ThAd, Rena

The rest of you wish you were cool, but really aren't so much.

I agree with some of this.

- f

What parts do you currently agree with?

Easier to list the parts I'm not sure about. Of the town list, I'm not sure about Ceph. To a lesser extent, I'm not sure about AK. mollie has some serious concerns about them. We're working on a consensus. Of the scum list I disagree with ThAd. I'm null-ish about Bulbazak. And I'd add Peregrine as a person of concern.

- f

[ffullisade]

who are you scumreading right now penguin

[ffullisade]

The fact that neither of these are reaching full majority bugs me.

@Mastin- I hate deadline lynches. Just so you know.

<<< Would you rather have a failure to reach majority result in a no-lynch today? How 'bout day one? This game's long enough as it is already, no-lynching would make it go on for even longer. Plus...If you couldn't tell...I hate deadline no-lynches, just so you know. >>>

@Slandaar-I searched your Iso for "Crash" and "CTD" and QT, just to see if you mentioned anything regarding it.
You didn't, except to say Crash is town a few times.

Since I don't know why you feel this way, it's either real, or artificial.

Since your cases on other players seem artificial, this townread is looking the same way too. How is it not "worth" your time to explain why your neighbor is town?

Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Hey Peregrine why were you working so hard to herd votes onto Slandaar yesterday?

- f

I'm interested in the response to this.

Look up. post 4915 on this page. e.g.

Easier to list the parts I'm not sure about. Of the town list, I'm not sure about Ceph. To a lesser extent, I'm not sure about AK. mollie has some serious concerns about them. We're working on a consensus. Of the scum list I disagree with ThAd. I'm null-ish about Bulbazak. And I'd add Peregrine as a person of concern.

[ffullisade]

The fact that neither of these are reaching full majority bugs me.

@Mastin- I hate deadline lynches. Just so you know.

<<< Would you rather have a failure to reach majority result in a no-lynch today? How 'bout day one? This game's long enough as it is already, no-lynching would make it go on for even longer. Plus...If you couldn't tell...I hate deadline no-lynches, just so you know. >>>

@Slandaar-I searched your Iso for "Crash" and "CTD" and QT, just to see if you mentioned anything regarding it.
You didn't, except to say Crash is town a few times.

Since I don't know why you feel this way, it's either real, or artificial.

Since your cases on other players seem artificial, this townread is looking the same way too. How is it not "worth" your time to explain why your neighbor is town?

Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Hey Peregrine why were you working so hard to herd votes onto Slandaar yesterday?

- f

Because of the two, would rather Slandaar be lynched over Bulba.

Your Slandaar case in this post are crappy reasons to want someone lynched, and crappy reasons for appealing to other players to move their votes.

[ffullisade]

Was less than pleased with QT last night. Bulba was not my first choice for a bullet.

But, we are now divining the setup to be 2 scumteams, each with a roleblocker, that each managed to block a PR without doubling up on either?

I think that's stretching it somewhat.

Vote: Nachomamma

ThAd, possible suggestion for next time you take a shot.

Don't discuss your target on the QT.

I have a bad feeling about Perigrine.

- f

Tell me more about this. Why shouldn't he discuss his target in the QT?

Because I think it's far more likely that ThAd is town than you are.

[ffullisade]

consensus achieved.

VOTE: PeregrineV

Nacho, I am holding you to this.

Ffery, I would like to seriously connect. I don't think we've made an effort lately but it sort of needs to be done.

[ffullisade]

I think I speak for both of us when I say that we're up for a Rena lynch. Right now, we're recovering from all the *headdesk* lumps on our foreheads.

- f

[ffullisade]

Well, you had no problem calling my case on the dead town player crap. I guess your ISO will show similar disdain for all of the other cases on Slandaar. Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

There are cases and cases. Yours was hurried-looking shoot from the hip crap, which is not necessarily alignment indicative imo. What pings most about you are the vibes about your QT convo with ThAd re the vig kill and the subsequent night results. That and and growing uneasiness regarding your peripheral involvement in the thread since I joined the game.

The supersaturated solution crystallized.

If my vote is opportunistic, what are the subsequent votes?

- f

[ffullisade]

Well, you had no problem calling my case on the dead town player crap. I guess your ISO will show similar disdain for all of the other cases on Slandaar. Otherwise, this looks very opportunistic, considering Nacho has no case on me besides "Useless", and you failed to comment on my case on Nacho.

There are cases and cases. Yours was hurried-looking shoot from the hip crap, which is not necessarily alignment indicative imo. What pings most about you are the vibes about your QT convo with ThAd re the vig kill and the subsequent night results. That and and growing uneasiness regarding your peripheral involvement in the thread since I joined the game.

The supersaturated solution crystallized.

If my vote is opportunistic, what are the subsequent votes?

- f

My bad. I see you say one thing...

@ bulba

so you have nacho as town cos you.....said he was scum if you got lynched and then he came in and saved you? lol

I cannot decide who I want to lynch moar, ak or bulba

and I am very unhappy with nacho

And do another.

VOTE: PeregrineV

But, it's not scummy because

reasons

.

And what about my QT convo gives you bad vibes?

4888 is Mollie. 4960 is me, as are the posts addressed to you from my question about your herding votes to the slandaar wagon. My suspicion of you was absolutely a brainstorm that came up as I was reading ThAd's posts in the early game day. I checked with Mollie before going after you, and checked again to be sure she was comfortable with voting you.

Mollie and I have not been in full agreement about bulba for a while. We're finally approaching something close to alignment, though.

We've had similar, though lesser not-quite-eye-to-eye about AK, Kubla, and Nacho.

You don't have ThAd's trust. That came through in his posts. He has more basis for reading your alignment than anyone else in the game. At least one of these neighborhoods should have a scum component. I think this is one and I think you are the scum.Useless

[ffullisade]

huh. don't now where the "Useless" came from.

[ffullisade]

I think when Nacho and Mollie say they want to connect, they've already townread each other.

Nacho and fery, but same difference. Cautiously townreading because our earlier overtures weren't well met.

- f

[ffullisade]

another one of those "everyone" projects, probably.

Good. I'm around.

- f

[ffullisade]

VOTE: Rena

[ffullisade]

4888 is Mollie. 4960 is me, as are the posts addressed to you from my question about your herding votes to the slandaar wagon.

Herding votes. Nice.
How many votes were a direct result of my "herding"?

It's not what you accomplished. It's what you attempted, and what it reveals about your motivation.

What does this tell you about my alignment in relation to Bulba?

That's a really interesting question. I wonder how easy it would have been to talk ThAd into targeting Slandaar.

You don't have ThAd's trust. That came through in his posts. He has more basis for reading your alignment than anyone else in the game. At least one of these neighborhoods should have a scum component. I think this is one and I think you are the scum.

Which post indicates ThAd thinks I am not town.

The posts that indicate you don't have his trust are the ones where he said he stopped discussing his kill with you on your QT before he settled on his target.

If that's the case, why would he not shoot me?

As a vig, on your own, lack of trust may not line up with a strong enough scum read to take a shot at someone.

[ffullisade]

4888 is Mollie. 4960 is me, as are the posts addressed to you from my question about your herding votes to the slandaar wagon.

Herding votes. Nice.
How many votes were a direct result of my "herding"?

It's not what you accomplished. It's what you attempted, and what it reveals about your motivation.

You mean my directly stated motivation of wanting Slandaar lynched over Bulb?

Yes.

What does this tell you about my alignment in relation to Bulba?

That's a really interesting question. I wonder how easy it would have been to talk ThAd into targeting Slandaar.

Not sure of the relevance of this statement regarding your vote on me.

You brought it up. It had nothing to do with our vote on you.

Slandaar was dead. I doubt ThaD would shoot him.

hypothetical

You don't have ThAd's trust. That came through in his posts. He has more basis for reading your alignment than anyone else in the game. At least one of these neighborhoods should have a scum component. I think this is one and I think you are the scum.

Which post indicates ThAd thinks I am not town.

The posts that indicate you don't have his trust are the ones where he said he stopped discussing his kill with you on your QT before he settled on his target.

We're neightbors not masons, so I don;t expect discussing of kill targets, but I did expect discussion of reads, and discussion of my choice of kill targets.

This looks like a distinction without a difference, unless I'm missing something.

If that's the case, why would he not shoot me?

As a vig, on your own, lack of trust may not line up with a strong enough scum read to take a shot at someone.

So he doesn't trust me, but still thinks I'm town?

In your universe are reads always binary?

[ffullisade]

In post 4985, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 4982, ffullisade wrote:
4888 is Mollie. 4960 is me, as are the posts addressed to you from my question about your herding votes to the slandaar wagon.

Herding votes. Nice.
How many votes were a direct result of my "herding"?

It's not what you accomplished. It's what you attempted, and what it reveals about your motivation.

This was explicit motivation stated by multiple people. What makes me more suspect because of it?

An explicit motivation stated by multiple people who used their votes and continued to throw cases into the air. What you did was different. You called out specific people and pressured them to change their votes.

I've seen this done in games where there are lots of onesie and twosie wagons, but the pressure has always been for players to make their vote meaningful by consolidating onto one of the viable wagons. What you did is different, and it stood out against the other movements in the game at that point. My only question, really is if a scum player would make such a blatant move to swing a wagon.

[ffullisade]

What does this tell you about my alignment in relation to Bulba?

That's a really interesting question. I wonder how easy it would have been to talk ThAd into targeting Slandaar.

Not sure of the relevance of this statement regarding your vote on me.

You brought it up. It had nothing to do with our vote on you.

Me: Lynch Slandaar not Bulb.
You: You wanted to lynch Slandaar, you must be scum....
Me: If I'm scum, what does that tell you about Bulb
You: I didn't vote you for not wanting to lynch Bulb, you brought it up.
Me (now): But, if you are voting me for scum, then I am either buddying town-Bulb or protecting scum-Bulb. And since I distinctly wanted a Slandaar lynch instead of a Bulb lynch, and you are now stating that my desire for a Slandaar lynch makes me scum, then you have to have an opinion on Bulb, whose lynch I did NOT want.

See if you can figure out what is wrong with your paraphrasing of my part.

[ffullisade]

This looks like a distinction without a difference, unless I'm missing something.

There is a difference. We could have discussed reads, and in the end I would make the assumption he would shoot a scumread, or even possibly a null read, without him ever saying a word about who he planned to shoot. He could have even thrown in a strong townread, called them scum, just to see my reaction.
So yes, there is a difference.

From your perspective in the conversation there would be no difference. Where he went with the info later would be opaque to you.

Confidante of the vig is an extremely powerful place for scum to be. Nervewracking, burnout-inducing, and hiatus-invoking. But, powerful. I've been there.

[ffullisade]

If that's the case, why would he not shoot me?

As a vig, on your own, lack of trust may not line up with a strong enough scum read to take a shot at someone.

So he doesn't trust me, but still thinks I'm town?

In your universe are reads always binary?

In mafia games with town and mafia, then yes, they usually end up binary.
Trust indicates alignment.

Alignment reads are a continuum. A vig usually acts on the strongest, surest read, unless they're taking an approach of culling the town herd. Not trusting you does not equate to strongest scum read.

[ffullisade]

5095

- You could speed it up and tell me which part you think is wrong

I voted you for two reasons: trying to herd votes onto slandaar and because ThAd looks like he distrusts you. Not merely because you wanted to lynch Slandaar.

5096

- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?

5097

-

Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.

[ffullisade]

5096

- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?

5097

-

Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.

I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.

Where on day 4 did you first allude to these misgivings?

I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.

Your version of simplification is highly and I believe deliberately inaccurate. I'd break out the "m" word but it's overused to the point of meaninglessness.

[ffullisade]

5096

- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?

5097

-

Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.

I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.

Where on day 4 did you first allude to these misgivings?

I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.

Your version of simplification is highly and I believe deliberately inaccurate. I'd break out the "m" word but it's overused to the point of meaninglessness.

4867

So are you also objecting to my attempts to get you to simplify and clarify? Apparently you want me to use the question-answer-question technique since you're not exactly being clear with your answers.
So, which part is inaccurate?

I am objecting to your oversimplifications because they have been inaccurate. My post 5101 is a clear and accurate correction of yours.

I can see a town motivation in trying to clarify things. I cannot see a town motivation in simplifying things to the point where they are obviously wrong. Your trust=townread/mistrust=scumread=vig-kill is an example of simplifying to the point of being obviously wrong. As was your statement that I voted you because you wanted to lynch Slandaar.

[ffullisade]

Nacho, you around?

[ffullisade]

My first post to you Day 4.

The fact that neither of these are reaching full majority bugs me.

@Mastin- I hate deadline lynches. Just so you know.

<<< Would you rather have a failure to reach majority result in a no-lynch today? How 'bout day one? This game's long enough as it is already, no-lynching would make it go on for even longer. Plus...If you couldn't tell...I hate deadline no-lynches, just so you know. >>>

@Slandaar-I searched your Iso for "Crash" and "CTD" and QT, just to see if you mentioned anything regarding it.
You didn't, except to say Crash is town a few times.

Since I don't know why you feel this way, it's either real, or artificial.

Since your cases on other players seem artificial, this townread is looking the same way too. How is it not "worth" your time to explain why your neighbor is town?

Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.

Hey Peregrine why were you working so hard to herd votes onto Slandaar yesterday?

- f

My first post to ThAd day 4.

Was less than pleased with QT last night. Bulba was not my first choice for a bullet.

But, we are now divining the setup to be 2 scumteams, each with a roleblocker, that each managed to block a PR without doubling up on either?

I think that's stretching it somewhat.

Vote: Nachomamma

ThAd, possible suggestion for next time you take a shot.

Don't discuss your target on the QT.

I have a bad feeling about Perigrine.

- f

You've continually recast my reasons as "because you wanted to lynch Slandaar" rather than "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar."

You know that is false. So stop repeating it.

[ffullisade]

You've continually recast my reasons as "because you wanted to lynch Slandaar" rather than "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar."

So I was attempting to herd votes on Slandaar to NOT get him lynched?

Finish this sentence "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar" because _____________________.

1. A number of players voted him, made cases and wanted to get him lynched.

2. You voted him, made cases and wanted to get him lynched.

2a. You called players out and asked them to move their votes to him.

3. My vote is on you, not one of the other players who voted him, made cases and wanted to get him lynched.

----------------------------

Nacho, I think I've seen enough. Do you have meta to the effect that peregrine acts dumb as a post as town when someone puts a vote on him?

[ffullisade]

That is L-1.

:/

[ffullisade]

Nacho, I think I've seen enough. Do you have meta to the effect that peregrine acts dumb as a post as town when someone puts a vote on him?

- f

[ffullisade]

Oh and look where Rena's vote is.

If I had no other reason to hate the bulba wagon, that would be sufficient.

- f

[ffullisade]

Ffullisade, I'm quoting this again because I'd actually like a response.

Ffullisade, I'm quoting this because I think you might have missed it:

Ffullisade, it seems to me like your case against PV largely depends on Bulba flipping scum. At least your primary reason for suspecting him (herding votes onto Slandaar) does in my opinion. Please consider moving your vote there.

Even if you think Rena is scum, why does her being on the Bulba wagon make you dislike it? Multiball, etc.

I am actually not sure how much Mollie and I are in agreement about Bulba. She was scum-reading him on day 3. I wasn't. But, we are very much in agreement that Rena is scum.

I see two p much mutually exclusive reasons for Peregrine to try and get votes onto Slaandar

if he is scum

. He could have been other-team hunting. Or he could have been protecting Bulba.

I think it is the former because he's now pushing a theory that there are more scum among the neighbors in his recent posts. Though it could be an indirect effort to scare up some Seanald votes, I guess.

You are right that Rena could be other-team hunting. That doesn't mean she's correct. And a scum-read placing the L-1 vote sets off an alarm or 3.

[ffullisade]

If we have another night where both ThAd and Rena fail to produce results, then we can talk.

Would be happy with saving Rena for another day. Unfortunately, Rena is the only not-bad lynch with support right now and people have proven themselves to move very, very slowly in this game.

Who would you rather see lynched?

[ffullisade]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[ffullisade]

To my knowledge, Rena hasn't done anything heinous either (except under-contribute, which in her case is more likely the result of her never really getting into the game but sticking around because she drew a PR, than of her being scum, in my opinion).

You don't have a problem with her saying that she was getting suspicious of me because of the cases against me and then being completely unable to come close to summarizing any of the cases against me?

This was huge, CTD.

Nacho gave her 10 minutes. She replied after 9 minutes and change. It's worth quoting.

"that whole case made against you".
Summarize it, 10 minutes. Go.

I can't find why people were voting you o.o I've got the buddying Bulbz (possibly) thing.

That didn't answer my question, why all of a sudden has your read on me changed?

[ffullisade]

Why would I unvote when I'm down for a bulb lynch? Its not like I care if he gets lynched before I get to the other posting I need/want to do.

Don't think I've been lurking a week and its not like I'm the only "lurker" in this game. Infact, I think I've been quite active lately. I admit that I've been rather lazy these past few days but lurking. lol

Can you quote the post where I claimed VT?

I really don't like this post.

[ffullisade]

Because it's weird that you apparently think whatever business you can't wrap up today can wait until day 5. And on the one hand you say you are not the only lurker in the game and on the other assert you've been quite active.

[ffullisade]

Because it's weird that you apparently think whatever business you can't wrap up today can wait until day 5.

Its just replying to some of the silly accusations against me. I don't think it'll change anything in the long run.

And on the one hand you say you are not the only lurker in the game and on the other assert you've been quite active.

I'm the second most active poster and I think I have a good amount of content. Though CTD is quite right that I've been lazy and "lurking". Its a shit statement 'cause there are far worse lurkers than me but he's scum so its not like his accusations have to make any sense.

So there's nothing this game day that has changed your mind, or could change your mind about any player?

[ffullisade]

nope, not really though it is kinda interesting how Nacho was attacking me for attacking Rena and now he has a scum read on said slot. What has changed today for you?

"Our" scumread of Rena has become "My" read. By that I mean there's active consensus.

PeregrineV has very much become a person of interest. And ThAd has come off looking a little better as a result of both the dual roleblocked claims and the concerns about PeregrineV.

I'm feeling more confident that Nacho is town.

I thought yesterday that both the Bulba wagon and Slandaar wagon were a mislynch in progress, and I feel similarly today about bulba. I'm surprised he isn't arguing against it harder, but I can relate a little to feeling that, between shaky reads and near-inevitable mislynch, sooner could be better for town than later. Sometimes I play through a fog of deathwish for weeks.

My town read of you has weakened some. A couple of your posts today sound off notes to me. I hear talk about confident or smug scumplay. I seldom actualy see someone who turns out to be scum play with visible smugness. No matter how well things might be going, playing scum is usually a graceless and choppy dash to endgame seconds ahead of the house of cards collapsing.

[ffullisade]

Gut.

Didn't you want to wait a day on Rena?

[ffullisade]

I see two p much mutually exclusive reasons for Peregrine to try and get votes onto Slaandar if he is scum. He could have been other-team hunting. Or he could have been protecting Bulba.

How do you make the distinction between other-team hunting and pro-town scumhunting? I agree that these are reasons he'd try to get votes onto Slandaar

if

he is scum, but you're using it as a reason to suspect

that

he is scum, which I still think only works if he's scum with Bulba.

Sorry I missed this yesterday. I think I'm just not used to seeing "ffullisade" and thinking "me".

I make the distinction between other-team hunting and pro-town scumhunting based on the player's body of work. If their overall contribution looks town, I go with "pro-town scumhunting" for a first approximation. If their posts sound a lot of off notes, then I start thinking about the multi-faction dynamics.

You and I have a huge mismatch in scumhunting styles. To me, the above questions were almost nonsensical coming from a body-of-work perspective. I imagine the converse is true from your end.

[ffullisade]

Prefer Rena lynch to Bulbazak right now, although I would go with Seanald over both. Actually,

VOTE: Seanald

If anyone has a town read on him and wants to dissuade me, have at it.

This is a really strange post in context. The only wagon with more than 1 vote other than Bulba's is Rena, who you would prefer. But you put another singleton vote on Seanald.

[ffullisade]

VOTE: Rena

[ffullisade]

To my knowledge, Rena hasn't done anything heinous either (except under-contribute, which in her case is more likely the result of her never really getting into the game but sticking around because she drew a PR, than of her being scum, in my opinion).

You don't have a problem with her saying that she was getting suspicious of me because of the cases against me and then being completely unable to come close to summarizing any of the cases against me?

This was huge, CTD.

Nacho gave her 10 minutes. She replied after 9 minutes and change. It's worth quoting.

"that whole case made against you".
Summarize it, 10 minutes. Go.

I can't find why people were voting you o.o I've got the buddying Bulbz (possibly) thing.

That didn't answer my question, why all of a sudden has your read on me changed?

I don't remember this, let me check it out.

What did you conclude?

[ffullisade]

4 days, 3 hours, 53 minutes.

and still no one wants to join the nero cain wagon
pv, what the fuck are you doing?

wait we are on rena what are you talking about here

[ffullisade]

Desp, why not vote for Sean today?

Because everything Rena has said today has looked fake/like she isn't reading the thread, despite her having an extremely powerful role that entirely depends on her ability to read the game and predict the scum's behavior. Her posts don't give any indication that she's capable of that, or even interested in doing so...which means she's faking it.

this. so much of this. and more of this.

she did it in the previous day round as well

[ffullisade]

I mean I don't even understand why she isn't lynched already

[ffullisade]

question: Nacho had attacked me for attacking Rena. What does this say about his slot?

he also attacked you before he realised rena scum so

[ffullisade]

*was scum so

[ffullisade]

question: Nacho had attacked me for attacking Rena. What does this say about his slot?

he also attacked you before he realised rena scum so

ok and? Its impossible for scum to backtrack?

So, you think Nacho's attack on me has nothing to do with anything, right?

what are you doing

nero I want you to be town plz don't things that are not town like try to break up this beautiful bond we all have going on here.

so he backtracked on a read. town does it too. so why are you making this a thing like it doesn't ever happen.

[ffullisade]

????????

I'm not surprised that the whole conversation went over your head, Mollie.

But whatever. We can continue this conversation later 'cause we already have 3 good suspects in Bulb, Rena, Cephir.

then vote rena

I think bulba may actually be town

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE

VOTE: Seanald

mollie is going to yell at you all for letting Rena get by another day.

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE

VOTE: Seanald

mollie is going to yell at you all for letting Rena get by another day.

Um, what? You've been calling Seanald town all game. What changed?

The Vengeball-based meta read went stale weeks ago. Seanald's posts in this game, especially over day 4, such as they are, look like coasting scum to us. We've been much more focused on the train wreck of a slandaar/bulba choice on day 3 and the craziness of a bulba wagon on day 4, but Seanald's not gone completely unnoticed. Rena, though, is mollie's priority, and this wagon coming so close, only to collapse is going to seriously piss her off.

But, Nacho is right and CTD makes a strong case for holding off. I think changing the vote now makes sense. If momentum stalls, then it's going to come down to bulba and I will hate that and yell at everyone on that wagon in perpetuity.

[ffullisade]

mollie and I are still discussing what yesterday's wagons tells us along with the NKs.

But this we feel sure of Bulba is town. We know that Rena was not a scum PR so there was NO FUCKING REASON for SCUM-BULBA to stay off her wagon yesterday. No biulba wagon today.

[ffullisade]

@ thad

come here honey you are starting to worry me a bit.

also why did baezu sub in if all he is going to do is immediately go on v/la and try to lurk out the rest of the game?

no

HELL NO

y'all don't make me use the shouty font

VOTE: baezu

[ffullisade]

Yeah there pretty much has to be one scum out of ctd/pere.

and his name is pere!

also why did baezu sub in if all he is going to do is immediately go on v/la and try to lurk out the rest of the game?

no

bacde wasn't scum, trust me

mollie and I haven't caught up with each other yet, but I've independently come to the same conclusion due to metadiving beazu games.

So are you going to stick with pere this time? Or talk me into dancing with him again and then wander off to some other wagon?

UNVOTE

Will most likely be voting pere after mollie and I synch.

[ffullisade]

This is just bad. Hiding behind your predecessor. Apologizing for a vote and immediately backpedaling, which is essentially pacifying town. Then you go after someone who is getting a lot of attention. This needs to die soon.

Alas, I hear this in every single one of my town games...check my meta. I wish I could be bacde, but I'm just the worst fucking mafia player instead.

I honestly haven't said that nacho isn't scum. I just think PV is scum too. If we can get a nacho wagon going (something that hasn't been even remotely close to happening this entire game) I'd be on it for sure.

Anyone interested now?

Fuck

Nlo

[ffullisade]

Because 10 scum at the beginning of the game seems a bit excessive.

It does to me too. I'm just wondering why you're thinking 2 teams of 4 instead of 2 teams of 3.

^^^^

[ffullisade]

"ThAd is town because there is a scum roleblocker" isn't an argument.

Especially when someone else has claimed roleblocked on the same night as them.

yeah

and I told him I wanted to talk to him and he never responded

VOTE: thadVOTE:

[ffullisade]

VOTE: thad

[ffullisade]

that isn't the relative tell I have so I am not sure what dumb point you are trying to make here

[ffullisade]

that isn't the relative tell I have so I am not sure what dumb point you are trying to make here

Be nice. Put yours claws back into your paws.

then stop being catty.

Remember when I kept laughing once we died in TfT because he kept throwing his relative tell off like wild-fire. He's not doing it here. Why are you trying to yet go after

another

PR? You went after Rena (I did too) because you thought she was a scum-watcher.

I don't remember that at all. I only remember him throwing it off once. and when we talked about it didn't I specifically tell you that it was poor form to bring up how a player reads another player in a game? so why do you keep doing it

I didn't think rena was the scum watcher I thought she was scum mebbe fakeclaiming.

There's reasons besides "role block" that could cause a kill to not go through. First off - Seanald flipped mafia doctor - so there's one. There's a few other mafia PR's that could potentially block a kill.

Try exploring all possibilities first.

if fery would have let me you would be lynched by now. your whole post is an appeal and it looks like you are trying to steer any suspicion from thad. I mean you said itt that he was dropping "the tell" and now you want to change your story? plz

[ffullisade]

VOTE: perv

[ffullisade]

@ ak

so what if perv flips blue?

[ffullisade]

@ ak

so what if perv flips blue?

You got two heads, right?

Why don't one figure out what scum I am.

Then the smart one can
1. Refute my AK case, like you did on Slandaar after he died.
2. Figure out who is scum if I'm town, since I am.

There, you can now increase your productivity 200%.

I see you sheeping a thor read. is it something stronger than that?

[ffullisade]

Mod, could you please fix the quote tags in my previous post when you get a chance? Sorry, I don't know what happened...

AK-Mala, in the first Seanald wagon you link from Day Three, PV is the first person on there. Say he's scum, and IIRC ThAd or his predecessor had told PV ThAd was a town PR. To what extent is it likely that he'd want to open the can of worms in lynching within the neighborhoods? If he thought ThAd could prove himself via shots, he'd have to consider himself the more vulnerable to being lynched in his pairing.

You say Bulbazak is town. What's the most important element of that read as of today, given that Seanald flipped scum doctor and ThAd's shot at Bulbazak was likely absorbed by a protection, if ThAd is being truthful. Actually, you were in a lot of dialogue with KK. How likely do you think it is that KK JK'd Bulbazak that night?

likely if he read him as null with town and scum extremities. and a lot of people were, hence why he was a lynch candidate.

<<< On request, fixed a grammatical error. >>>

[ffullisade]

Ffery, I'm extremely uncomfortable with HD at this point.

Yeah. You've reminded me of something. I got a "buzzword bingo town team" team-up feel with my interactions with AA, like we just shook hands, "ok, you're town let's do this" in our first interactions after I joined the game. There was nothing at all whatsoever from HD until like day 4. It hardly registered he was even in the game.

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE: perv

<<< I'll count it, but I'd prefer the unvote be outside the quotes, even though you're quoting yourself from a hydra-slip. >>>

[ffullisade]

If you guys actually want that case you aren't asking the right people.

If you're just trying to figure out if Baezu is scum, well, she probably is.

You're welcome.

That's why I was asking my town reads Nacho and ffullisade. Although, I'll expand that to asking why you're ready to hammer.

mollie and I are unsure at the moment, which is why she unvoted peregrine. My reasons for suspecting him have been based on a combo of his behavior around the Slandaar wagon and partly on ThAd's apparent suspicion of him, but our ThAd read has taken a hit and is currently in a high state of flux. The other part was feeling that CTD's reaction to Syr's cardflip looked so much like paranoid town.

[ffullisade]

mollie and I will not be going there PA, because Bacde.

[ffullisade]

I've been reading PV as null-scum most of the game and CTD as town the entire game, is why. Though the latter read is admittedly falling off for me.

ffull, I know about the Bacde thing, I was with you all the way. I've been calling him obvtown the whole game. But there's always room to be wrong about town reads in this game and Baezu scumming the everloving hell out of that slot needs to be taken into consideration. Bacde is the only reason I'm not voting her right now and/or sobbing about the town not being able to see blatant scum right in front of their faces, 'cause honestly I'm not sure she could possibly sound scummier.

There are not two more scum neighbors and anyone suggesting this should be shot.

Baezu's completed MS games:

vanilla town - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29631
vanilla town - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=29901
scum - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28555

I'm curious what you think about the differences in those games and how you think her play in this game look by comparsion.

[ffullisade]

mollie and I will not be going there PA, because Bacde.

Bacde sends his love ffery

<3

I will be </3 if Bacde was scum.

[ffullisade]

My first poke D:

Need to look at those games ffery posted, will get to it soon.

I'd like PA and AK to look at those 3 games too. The more the merrier.

[ffullisade]

Ok I'll make it simple for everyone. Pv or me.

Either way I win because I am getting to the point where I don't care about this game any more.

but thadley I was so excited to play with you....

[ffullisade]

how about this - if you help me lynch pv I'll actually try tomorrow.

you seem awfully confident you won't be nked

[ffullisade]

@ mod: the pirate mollie half of this hydra is /out. fery may want to continue.

<<< I hope you're okay. Noted. >>>

[ffullisade]

In the first of those games Baezu is kind of scummy, in the second one she's pretty clearly town. In the scum game, the most noticeable distinction for me is the lazy scumhunting slash lack thereof. Still, in none of those three games was she as scummy as she's been in this one, so I don't exactly know what to make of it. She's trying harder than in that scum game, but also constantly contradicting herself and making some terrible points, which it didn't seem like was going on in any of those games (though admittedly I just iso'd her).

5685 is reminiscent of a particular post in the second town game, but first of all her meta was already brought up, and more importantly the only thing wrong with HD's argument is that there's more he could have added to it, and it deserves a better response than "lolwtf". Whereas the post she was responding to in that town game was in fact rather bad.

In both of her town games, she looked unsure, hesitant, and kinda looking around for a direction to take. In her scum game she looked more confident. Compare the cases she made in her scum game to her cases in her town game. And to here.

The obscuring factor is that she came into a slot that was being reasonably well town-read due to her predecessor. That started falling apart and her play got more hesitant. Look at her iso and see where the hesitance got better and have a look at the surrounding context.

[ffullisade]

Vote: Human Destroyer

ffullisade, with me!

Huzzah!

Vote: Human Destroyer

[ffullisade]

In both of her town games, she looked unsure, hesitant, and kinda looking around for a direction to take. In her scum game she looked more confident. Compare the cases she made in her scum game to her cases in her town game. And to here.

It's like the difference between town you and scum you sometimes. Not as much *lately*, but.

hesitance as town is usually a sign that there's something seriously wrong with my reads.

Plus Bacde was incredibly fucking town how can you say anything else???

You can't.

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE: Baezu

Still not seeing town there, but there will likely be time to sort it out later.

Lynching within the neighborhoods is at least a group where we're super-likely to find a blue scum, possibly the last one. The earlier PV wagon didn't seem focused on actually finding scum so much as trying to push the first easy neighborhood lynch. I don't see Desperado pushing his neighbor like he did as scum, as it leaves him more exposed. To a lesser extent I see this with CTD having outed the neighborhoods in the first place, especially if he was blue; his first move after having a teammate NK'd wouldn't have been to set something in motion to lower his own game life expectancy.

That leaves PV-ThAd. I'm not seeing PV as blue scum here for reasons I outlined in an earlier post. ThAd would thus be my hands down choice aside from his vig claim. Bulbazak, why does your PoE get you CTD instead of ThAd?

Plus there was just the genuinely paranoid feel to CTD's post about his neighborhood after Syr's flip.

[ffullisade]

Bulbazak, why does your PoE get you CTD instead of ThAd?

Desperado is essentially conf. town, since I don't see the only neighborhood scum from both teams being in a neighborhood together. ThAd has claimed vig., and I believe him, since I can't see scum acting the way he has. The "I don't give a crap" attitude is more indicative of town in this instance than scum, as I would think scum in his position would be more compliant with the town. That leaves PV and CTD. As I've said before, I can't see one scum team being given

such a huge advantage

over the other, which is what being paired with a vig. would be. Anybody who wants to explain PV-scum to me needs to explain that. Plus, I just like the idea of 1 killer per neighborhood representing each team (both scumteams + town). That leaves CTD. I'm even more confident in this given CTD's actions yesterday concerning my wagon. He was really trying to push it through as quickly as possible. He probably knew that once I died, my line of inquiry died with me, and as today has shown, even with acknowledgment that scum is likely in the neighborhoods, the majority of the town wants to hunt elsewhere.

It's a huge swingy thing, and could be not advantageous at all depending on who wound up in the scum-neighbor and vig-neighbor slots. But, it's a point to think about.

Slandaar's flip was town vanilla neighbor.

Blue roles so far have been ninja and goon

red role was mafia doctor neighbor

I dunno. I don't think this takes PV out of the running for blue mafia neighbor.

[ffullisade]

Are you suggesting that red scum might be more powerful than blue scum in order to merit such a pairing? Because I'm not sure if we've seen enough flips to tell either way.

No I'm not. I don't think we've seen enough flips either. I don't want assumptions of set-up symmetry OR asymmetry to drive the direction of scumhunting.

[ffullisade]

Mala thinks HD is town though, she might be able to go in depth to why

Now would be a good time for her to do this.

[ffullisade]

How anyone could be reading bulbazak as scum at this point boggles my mind.

I am going to miss your old avatar.

[ffullisade]

If we assume both teams are balanced...

11. Red Ryu, Blue Mafia Ninja, shot Night One.
1. thezmon221, Blue Mafia Goon, Lynched Day Two.
17. Seanald, Red Mafia Doctor-Neighbor

Red Mafia is pretty much guaranteed to have a goon. It is guaranteed the someone has a roleblocker. Right now, I lean towards blue scum having a roleblocker; Ninja does nothing but counter the watcher but makes the goon weaker while doctor counters the rolecop AND the watcher if scum-doc is protecting the strong member of his scumteam AND the other scumteam AND the vigilante, meaning that last red role will likely be something comparable in power, maybe rolecop or some shit, doesn't really matter.

There IS another scum in the neighborhood for fairness's sake, and it's not ThAd. It's probably CTD since (Townie-Scum PR, Townie-Scum PR, Townie-Town PR) makes a hell of a lot more sense than (Townie-Townie, Townie-Scum PR, ScumPR-Town PR). Meaning it is important that we aim for scum in the neighborhood since we have a pretty good chance of hitting scum there, hitting the roleblocker will free up ThAd for an actual vig shot (preferably on HD), meaning hitting bluescum gives us the potential of 5 mislynches to work with, which would be the maximum. If CTD flips town, it means that the scumteams are NOT symmetric, which would be strange but could be sorted through. We'd lose the potential for an extra mislynch, but that's not a horribly huge deal since we'd have a 1v1 with ThAd still being decently likely town.

Unlocking the potential for 5 mislynches would be pretty sick, considering it would mean PV-ThAd would be masons and the remaining lynch pool would be:
3. Cephir
4. Nachomamma8
7. Bacde
9. Bulbazak
13. Desperado
14. penguin_alien
21. Amethyst Kitty (Malakittens+MS Marangal)
22. ffullisade (fferylit+pirate mollie)
23. Human Destroyer

...which only needs 4 solid townreads to advance.

Cephrir suspects AK and HD as red-scum.
I suspect HD and Cephrir as red-scum.
Baezu suspects HD as red-scum, second looks like me?
Bulba suspects Baezu and HD as red-scum.
Desperado suspects HD-AK as red-scum.
PA suspects Baezu, maybe still HD.
AK suspects HD and Ceph I guess?
ffullisade suspects HD and ?
HD suspects Baezu and whoever the fuck

My personal 4 strong townreads are any 4 from ffullisade, Bulbazak, Desperado, and penguin_alien. AK and Baezu probably aren't scum either but there's some backlash against them, meaning that they don't make sense as the CORE TOWN. That means that it would be possible for me, HD, AK, Baezu, and Cephrir can all go down and if there's one scum in there and somehow not two you somehow get to take a dip into the town core 4 which shouldn't be ffullisade or Bulbazak under any circumstances.

I would have to either go with Mollie's concerns about AK or my own fairly low-level concerns about Cephrir. He hasn't risen to the level of call-out due to too much neighborhood focus on my part.

Read-wise I don't have CTD as scum, but your argument for symmetric strength of the two scum teams is pretty persuasive.

My strong townreads look like yours, but you're one of them.

[ffullisade]

I'm not going to put CTD at L-1 right now.

[ffullisade]

If CTD flips town than ThAd is going next.

Vote: CrashTextDummie

Some reason why this couldnt have waited a few more hours?

[ffullisade]

If CTD flips town than ThAd is going next.

Vote: CrashTextDummie

Some reason why this couldnt have waited a few more hours?

Eh, given the town PRs that have flipped, it's hard to see CTD claiming something more useful and/or provable than vig. And I'd've hammered a VT claim. Add in CTD wandering off for most of the day phase, and I've seen worse hammers.

If you're town, CTD, some final reads would be nice.

His reads and AK's reasons for thinking HD are town both are worth waiting to drop the hammer IMO.

peregrine has moved up my persons of interest list.

[ffullisade]

last scum is between AK and PA i guess. i sort of have a tendency to turn on AK at this point in time and haven't been right yet but who fucking knows hey

mollie mentioned at one point on day 4 or maybe early day 5 that she was feeling like PA was sort of subtly steering mollie's lines of inquiry.

Vote: Human Destroyer

[ffullisade]

You're free to do stuff with everyone else though

You said mala had an HD-town case.

[ffullisade]

Is that a quote from day 5?

Baezu is dead.

[ffullisade]

Here's all the Blue Scum reads lists highlighted with flips. Thezmon's is the most interesting and I think it means that Bacde was right about Nacho the whole time--he really is the last blue scum.

Spoiler: Ryu reads

Om is leaning town, he has interest for town to move in the right way. Is looking for direct intent.

Bacde is most likely town. Goofy but town.

Oversoul town if role is legit

Thor still dumbtown.

CrashTextDummi leaning scum,

he is caught up with Oversoul the same reason why Nacho is scum. The one difference is how mechanical and simple he is taking his reads like his post #770.
Nacho has been tunneling a read and shown he has never tried to read into intent, he has shown he wants a lynch.

If you aren't listed I don't have a read/I forgot what it was. so null until they gain my interest. Or I just didn't read it, forgot how a 20+ man game was like.

Spoiler: Thezmon reads

Alright, I'm a bit burnt out from reading about 25-26 pages, so I'll pick it up later (as in, in an hour or two probably). I suppose I'll give a general list of my reads on everyone. I'm not going to include a basis for them, and probably won't provide it right now because I've only read half the game thus far and will probably have another 5-10 pages by the time I read page 54. It's not in any particular order.

TOWN

ArcAngel

BeautyAndTheBeast

Cephrir

Slandaar

DLG
Bulbazak

Red Ryu

Amethyst Kitty

NULL

CrashTextDummie

Nero Cain

Bacde

Seanald

Om The Destroyer

Kublai Khan

Baby Spice

Desperado

Syryana

Kublai Khan

SCUM

fuzzybutternut

Oversoul

Nachomomma8

ActionDan

EddieFenix

Thor665

Just about all of my reads are pretty weak. I'll have a good feeling for the game hopefully before I actually hit this page.

I AM CAUGHT UP

Well, actually, I skipped 5-10 pages somewhere around 30 and 35, but I was able to get back in the loop. Sorry if you're disappointed with that, but I'm tired as hell from both school and reading these last 57 pages.

So, without further ado, here are my reads*:

TOWN:
[

ArcAngel,

BeautyAndTheBeast,

Slandaar

, DLG, Bulbazak, Amethyst Kitty,

Nero Cain

,

CrashTextDummie

,

Red Ryu

,

Bacde

]

NULL:
[

Seanald

,

Kublai Khan

,

Desperado

,

Syryana

, Nachomomma8,

Cephrir

]

MAFIA:
[

fuzzybutternut, Oversoul, EddieFenix, Thor665,

Om The Destroyer, Baby Spice,

Hanzo_5

]

*The order of the players is in no way indicative of the strength of my reads.

So, I'll now elaborate on reads that people want elaboration on, but I'm not going to elaborate on everything purely because there are 24 players I have to read and it's even more work and I'm tired.

Here's some notes from the pad of Thez:
--For the longest time I had Nacho penned as scum, and almost jumped onto his wagon for mainly the whole Oversould fiasco. However, his bout with the reads and wanting to lynch Desperado turned my head and convinced me that he might not be who he says he is. It is notable that every single person on that wagon I have as town (Desperado is null).
--Bacde is so obviously town right now, so if you think he's scum you should probably quit this game. BatB is pretty town too.
--Baby Spice is strangely very lurky. Also not quite so... worried. For lack of a better word/phrase.

Oh, and I felt I should address this:

@Thezmon

Your reasonless list is nothing but filler. To paraphrase you, you said "Hey im here and im doing stuff, Im not done yet so it looks like im not doing anything".

Im bringing this to light because I see it as fluff and everyone else should too.

I dont know why your fluffy. But I dont care for it. Your life no linger matters to me. Plz fix that.

It's too bad I don't care. Maybe you should try putting something non-fluff yourself instead of calling out other fluff. My post had more content than yours. Your recent posts don't do much justice for you IME either.

Alright, so now I'm going to wrap up this post with this:
VOTE: fuzzy

I don't like your overall mentality with the game at this point. You've been really dodgy this game. I don't find any value in any of your posts. Your reads are safer than OS's information was. Gut read? Really. Develop something. Try. Have AP Exams? Cool story bro, so do I. In fact, I have an exam on Thursday. You don't see me dodging the game and making useless third-party comments.

I feel fuzzy's gone unnoticed, and you should all notice him through my post. Cephrir's confrontation with him was a start. Oh, and I want a reads list from him too.

Well, I'm a L-1, it appears.

Claim:

Universal Backup

Reads:
TOWN:

Slandaar

CTD

Nacho

AA9

Kublai Khan
Nero Cain
EddieFenix
Bacde
Thor665

Bulbazak

NULL:
PA
PV

Seanald

ffullisade

SCUM:

Haylen
ThAdmiral

Om the Destroyer

Desperado

Cephrir

Amethyst Kitty

Spoiler: CTD reads

I would have preferred doing this after everyone was accounted for, but I'm itching to move on and Seanald might need to be replaced.

My general rule of thumb when analyzing reactions to a D1 massclaim suggestion is that the most likely scum reaction is no reaction. This applies to the following people in this game:
-BeautyAndTheBeast
-DLG
-

Mac

-

Nero Cain

-Bacde
-BabySpice

There are several scum in this list and I believe

very

strongly in this tell: While it may be up for debate whether D1 massclaim generally benefits town or scum more, there is absolutely no questioning whatsoever that scum despise the concept and would rather not not dwell on the issue. You'd think that it's no bother to them to drop a line on the subject, but I've seen a majority of scum outright ignore it in every game I've seriously pushed the idea in:
- In Purified Mafia, I divided the game into two piles based on this tell, and 3/4 of the remaining scum landed in the scum pile. Just one (StrangerCoug) slipped through the cracks, and only because I was lenient in applying the tell.
- In Team Mafia, literally every member of the town reacted, while all the scum didn't. If this game hadn't happened in the experimental phase of me making this play, I could have called the entire scum team on D1 (this is the game that compelled Glork to try it out elsewhere)
- In TV U-Pick, the entire scum team also fell into this tell

B&B is the worst offender in this game, because they've been very active throughout. The rest is mostly people who were late to the game or undercontributing, which doesn't mitigate the tell at all in my mind. Massclaim discussion has been one the main points of interest so far and should warrant a comment from any and all town players.

--------------

I have never personally seen scum support D1 massclaim. The following players did:
-Nachomamma8
-

Desperado

-Om the Destroyer
-

Thor

-

ActionDan

-

fuzzy

Roughly in order of how strongly they supported it. I debated putting fuzzy on this list, because as has been pointed out, he didn't actually give his own opinion on whether we should massclaim, only stating that he wanted popcorn if we did massclaim. Nachomamma, who arguably pushed the idea as hard as me or harder, would be playing a

very

gutsy game if he's scum in my opinion and is therefore very likely town. But really this whole list has a strong chance of being all town with the possible exception of fuzzy.

-------------

Opposing D1 massclaim is the most frequent pro-town reaction I've seen by virtue of most scum not reacting at all. The list for this game is as follows:
-Bulbazark

-ArcAngel9
-Oversoul

-

Cephrir

-

Slandaar

-AmethystKitty
-

Syriana

-

RedRyu

-Eddie Fenix

Bulbazark and ArcAngel reacted quite passionately to the idea, which I associate with town play. I've seen it only once from inexperienced scum and strictly from town otherwise. That makes them both town reads. Oversoul is a special case I'll get to in another post, the rest go in the null-leaning-town pile pending closer examination.

-----------

That leaves only

Rondar

and

Seanald

unaccounted for.

i don't think ThAd is lying about his target.

But you think ThAd should be lynched if he keeps getting blocked.

CTD, what are your reads?

Scum:

Nero

Bulba

Higher likelihood of being scum:

Seanald

PV
Nacho

Lower likelihood of being scum:

ThAd
Despo

Human Destroyer
Penguin Alien

Cephrir

Town:

Rena
Bacde

AK
Ffullisade

Based on interactions, I suspect the top end of this list to be populated mostly by red scum. Probably some blue scum in the lower likelihood pile. ThAd has been bumped down because his fake-out actually makes some sense as a town play. Cephrir has been bumped down because I think his play has looked rather town recently. Rest of those players I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to in while.

And here are Cephrir's reads. I have one really outrageous conclusion about them, but I want to hear from others before I share it.

Spoiler: Cephrir's reads

Holy semantic arguments, Batman! Om/Bulba argument devolved into arguments on arguments on arguments so fast I lost track of what they were even talking about. A lot of the last few pages has been useless bickering I didn't find particularly telling. Quick read list (no order within groups):

Town

CrashTextDummie

- See one of my last few posts, plus his most recent analysis is really good. Though I don't necessarily agree with dispensing with behavioral tells, not that he's doing so entirely, the analysis post strikes me as town because it takes strong stances on pretty much the whole player list and is well reasoned.

DLG

- Liked his first couple posts a lot, like the AA9 vote, obviously actually thinking (783), and 764 contains the only decent reason I've seen for suspecting Nacho (Nacho still seems like an opportunistic BW to me)

Slandaar

- 663 and 692 are well thought out, but I'm not terribly sure about this read. Wish he'd explain his opinions in more depth.

Om the Destroyer

- Don't really get why they're coming under fire. Could be whiteknighting me a bit I suppose but, well, if so it's working.

Nulltown

Nachomamma8

- haven't seen any actually convincing points against him, just a couple little nitpicks that I don't feel like merit more than an FoS.

Nero Cain

- As I recently explained. Also, as I mentioned early in the game I find hyperaggressive play to be protown (both in the sense that I think it benefits the town and in the sense that townies do it) and this extends to abrasiveness.

EddieFenix

- 691 reads as town, and I would expect a new player to have made more mistakes by now as scum.

Amethyst Kitty

- Posts seem genuine to me, though could stand to be less cautious. This is largely because 'you've posted a good amount and not much stuck out as scummy'. Nacho vote seems a little opportunistic because I'm just not getting that case. People have made a few okay isolated points but nothing that really felt voteworthy.

Null

Mac

- I dislike 481 and 547 but not enough to feel strongly about you.

Bacde

- I'd like to see reasons for his votes but I get the impression he actually does have said reasons.

Red Ryu

- I've wavered on this guy quite a bit. Null for now, might merit revisiting.

Nullscum

Bulbazak

- Before the great debacle because I felt like his initial points against Om were not very good. Posts during the great debate seem genuine but I also skimmed it once they started getting into semantics. For the most part I agreed with Om more.

fuzzybutternut

- Appears to be making a concerted effort to be as useless and sheepy as humanly possible. I may have read him poorly in Amnesiac Mafia but at least in that game he was actually trying.

Scum

Oversoul

- Reasons for this have been stated repeatedly by others and I agree with Nacho's stance on his claim.

BeautyAndTheBeast

- I don't think I need to explain this one.

ArcAngel9

- There's been some discussion about her behavior being within her town meta but I otherwise find her posts scummy, wrt Oversoul wagon mostly as she hasn't said much else: early posts are really alarmist for no good reason whereas she is oddly quiet about the speed of the Nacho wagon, 363 chainsaw of Oversoul, 682 mass chainsaw of Oversoul, finally comments on something else in her most recent post but "this lurker is rubbing me the wrong way" is a mile and a half short of scumhunting.

Post More

Thor665
Syryana - your opening reads suck.
Desperado

Baby Spice

Seanald

ActionDan
Rondar

Actually, B&B and AA9 aren't really in my sights anymore. I have B&B as null, maybe nullscum, for now because mollie has been an improvement for the slot. AA9 is scummy, but I've decided to give her a pass for Day 1 because this is typical of her day 1 play. I've said both these things before. I'd say Oversoul ranks right behind fuzzy at present.

Let's talk about everyone I can remember saying I even remotely disliked at all ever.

Macslot

- fine now, thezmon is doing fine.
Bulba- liked him since he stopped arguing with Om

Thor

?- Had some slight suspicion at some point I think. Basically null.

RR

- still a bit on the scummy side but he disappeared.
You- possibly the slightest scumread I've had all game. Still basically null.

Desperado

?- this case is currently under review.
BS- still a bit scummy, needs to post.

Oversoul

- currently in the back seat

fuzzy

- I am voting this guy
B&B- see text of post

AA9

- same

That's 11. I'd say anyone who hasn't had at least a slight ping from 11 different players by now isn't paying attention, and I believe that's everyone I've so much as commented "I didn't like X post" for, which doesn't mean they're a scumread.

I'm not sure what your case consists of anymore. Apparently I'm fencesitting while also having too many suspects for you? There's still the alleged Nacho bandwagon vote I was going to make just because I said I wanted to look at him again, and if that point makes you feel good I won't bother continuing to argue it (but you're wrong).

The following is a brief summary of each slot's interactions with Ryu.

Mac/thezmon

: Mac never does anything in the entire game except vote Ryu. zmon had a town read.

CTD

: minimal interactions.

Nacho

: Constantly responds to RR posts. Would say coaching if it weren't for other stuff. Decent-sized fight ensues that makes me think they probably aren't buddies. but then backs off and returns Ryu to nullread. Still think Nacho isn't bluescum because of RR's posts.

DLG/PV

: DLG suspects Ryu early but this evaporates. PV never mentions RR.

Nero

: No interaction except "cop this guy". No way.

Bacde

: Whiteknights and chainsaws Ryu several times but not bluescum, Ryu sheeped him way too hard.

Eddie

: Null read early... nothing else ever.

Bulbazak

: "If Ryu is scum so is Bacde"... well at least he's consistent even if the reasons for this statement changed entirely. Votes Ryu for his attack on OS; has backed off pairing theory today.

Thor

: The notorious post 76 (wants to lynch Ryu pregame). Condescending wallfight. Pushes Ryu until B&B wallfight, then later returns to RR. Ends day with Ryu on 'scummish'. I am not convinced this couldn't come from scumbuddies.

Desp

: Small attack in 539, 932 could be prodding a buddy. Scumread ex machina in 2374.

BS/PA

: Starts on Ryu vote, eventually switches off then ignores Ryu. Points out Nacho was a counterwagon to Ryu (I examine this later).

Slandaar

: Rather than chainsawing against a specific player, generally attacks everyone on the wagon. Multiple times. Otherwise ignores Ryu.

Seanald

: No mentions.

AD/Hanzo/Thad

: No mentions from any of them.

fuzzy/Haylen

: The posts I quoted in 2842 are it basically. "Leaning scum" in 2534.

KK

: Votes Ryu in mid-catch-up; asks for stronger case (b/c he has Ryu as second strongest scumread I think), strongly worded point against Ryu's cult leader joke (and he was right, go figure).

AK

: Consistently suspicious of RR (always second or third suspect all day). Not necessarily anything wrong with this, I suppose.

AA9

: Big long readpost with no mention of RR into vote RR seems weirder now but she's still town.

This is just based on bluescumness-if-scum and isn't really a scumlist (i.e. just because I say someone is a likely scumbuddy doesn't actually mean I think they're scum, though there is a correlation). First category only is strongest-weakest, others have no order.

Likely RR Scumbuddies

Haylen
Slandaar
Desperado
Thor

Penguin = Peregrine

Unlikely RR Scumbuddies

Nacho

Nero
Bacde
Kublai

No Conclusion

Mac/thezmon

CTD

Eddie

Bulbazak

Seanald

AD/Hanzo/Thad

AK

AA9

We interrupt these quote walls (where, incidentally, Thor is winning by leagues) to bring you a quick mostly-off-the-top-of-my-head reads list. I can explain as necessary.

Town

Bacde
Kublai Khan

Nacho = Om^
Bulba

CTD

Leaning town

Thor^

thezmon

Eddie = Nero*
AA9

PV (DLG)

Null

Thadmiral

Seanald

AK*

Lean scum

PA

Desperado^
Slandaar^

Scum

ffullisade

Haylen^

* = plan to examine in greater depth, feel like my opinions are outdated
^ = on my connections-with-bluescum list

Buddy analysis, part deux

Again I'll be ignoring my overall town/scumreads to what extent I can.

CTD- Light suspicion of thezmon early D1 and (lol) said he was "clearly not scum with RR". No conclusion.
Nacho- has thez as 'strong town' early on, later votes him. Could be blue.
PV- nothing
Nero- not much interaction, but among the earliest thez voters. With RR dead, I don't think there's any chance blue would have voted him until his death became inevitable. So I'm giving Nero a free pass.
Bacde- ahahahaha no
Bulb- not much interaction
Desp- big argument with thez + myself about essentially nothing. I don't think thez would have gone this far attacking his scumbuddy.
PA- defended thez after his claim; end of 3279 sounds potentially like someone who helped thez craft his claim (doesn't see the glaring issues with it, possibly wasn't paying attention when thez botched it). Likely partner, because if you're PA, who is widely suspected and grade A useless, if you're scum with only thez, your only play is to try to save him.
Sland- Light scumread on thez eventually, suggests lynching him long before anyone else does, which I would think was possibly safe bussing except he then presents a somewhat compelling if brief argument. Good point wrt those who were on the wagon and got off, I'll keep that in mind.
Sean- nothing, shocker
ThAd- Maybe-fake rage about thez's continued survival (this is after his death is inevitable). Also that one Hanzo post. Analysis today based on the premise that scum must have bussed thezmon is kind of bluey.
Rena- fuzzy and thez has a small but pissy argument about his activity level (frustrated scumbuddy?). Rena asked someone why they were voting thez at one point and then never mentioned him again.
KK- initially hesitant about Bacde's case but ultimately becomes an early voter.
AK- has thez listed as town, but doesn't know why. Not sure I see the scum motivation is jumping on thez then immediately jumping off because they apparently needed to ask me a question.
ffull- effectively an early voter
Om- Defended thez after claim with suggestion that he should live for now. Don't like it.
AA9- suspected thez early; his explosive reaction = not scumbuddies.

Likely thezmon buddies

p_a

ThAd

Om
Nacho

Rena

Unlikely

Bacde
Desperado
KK
AA9

ffull

Nero

No conclusion

CTD

PV
Bulb

Sland

Sean

AK

Considering thezmon's posts and both of my blue lists, I conclude that the most likely blue scum are Rena, Penguin, Om, ThAd and Slandaar.
Bacde, Nero, Kublai and AA9 are pretty much clear of being blue in my book.

Strong town

Bacde

CTD

Nacho
Bulb

Likely town

Desp

ffull
HD
PA

???
AK

Thad

Leaning scum

Nero

PV

Scum

Seanald

Rena

Town

Nacho

Desp

Bulba
ffull

Probably town

CTD

PA (Cephrir says blue)

Scummy

Baezu

HD (Cephrir says red)

Thad

PV (Cephrir says blue)
AK (Cephrir says red)

Admittedly my blue colorings at this point are basically "I don't think this person is red".

Vote: Nacho

Why did Nacho derail the Rena lynch? Why did he derail the bulba lynch (multiple days)?

[ffullisade]

My personal 4 strong townreads are any 4 from ffullisade, Bulbazak, Desperado, and penguin_alien. AK and Baezu probably aren't scum either but there's some backlash against them, meaning that they don't make sense as the CORE TOWN.

last scum is between AK and PA i guess. i sort of have a tendency to turn on AK at this point in time and haven't been right yet but who fucking knows hey

Would you clarify who are in your scum pile and who are in your town pile?

[ffullisade]

despo parroting me in a way is scary too.

Fery question? Your townread [?] on us.. Was it based on the mala or mara part of the hydra?

~ Mala

My read is pretty mushy tbh. I think that I've mostly interacted with mara. mollie's concerns were with mala posts mostly (I think - I'm not sure I've accurately identified whose posts are whose).

[ffullisade]

despo parroting me in a way is scary too.

Fery question? Your townread [?] on us.. Was it based on the mala or mara part of the hydra?

~ Mala

My read is pretty mushy tbh. I think that I've mostly interacted with mara. mollie's concerns were with mala posts mostly (I think - I'm not sure I've accurately identified whose posts are whose).

other than the latter half of yesterday, and today, we've actually worked to make each post Identifiable. which posts have you been struggling with?

You've interacted mostly with Mala

I was talking about several weeks ago when mollie and (I think mostly) mala were arguing, and mollie was scumreading you.

[ffullisade]

PA picked up on something awesome that I'm going to quote again.

So ffery.

You really think Nacho is town?

Because...this is really shitty.

Really

shitty.

Oh

My

God


A reach-out. Why didn't this happen on day 5? Or before that?

[ffullisade]

PA picked up on something awesome that I'm going to quote again.

So ffery.

You really think Nacho is town?

Because...this is really shitty.

Really

shitty.

Oh

My

God


A reach-out. Why didn't this happen on day 5? Or before that?

Because it didn't.

Right. You make a personal appeal today.

I don't think Nacho is scum.

We evidently have 3 scum left. Who else would you lynch today?

[ffullisade]

Ffery, why don't you think Nacho is scum? I agree with you logically, though Gut says something different

and yes, the argument between our accounts was mostly mala/mollie

I'll answer this in a day or 2. I'm mulling over some things that I think points strongly to town-Nacho.

[ffullisade]

HD, there's something I'd like to talk about when you are around. One of our mutual past games.

[ffullisade]

Desperado, the thing is, I wasn't voting CTD. I had no intention of it.

I was convinced to vote him by Nacho's post 5788 that convinced me, based purely on balance considerations, not on my read of CTD. I posted intent to hammer after that post.

I think the HD wagon was still viable.

This is one of the reasons I don't think Nacho is scum. I want to talk to HD about the other reason. I think it will help with both reads, though I really don't see myself changing my mind about Nacho today.

[ffullisade]

Please don't say you're reading him as town based on this. It's pretty transparent.

I guess we haven't played together often enough for my sarcasm tags to be visible.

[ffullisade]

Which scum team are you positing Nacho as a member?

[ffullisade]

So you think he dropped pushing your wagon in favor of bussing CTD?

[ffullisade]

I kinda disagree that your wagon was played out.

And for me his argument for CTD-scum was the convincing one.

I've been thinking about buzzword bingo and how scum-Nacho had you picked out as the easiest mislynch. He was setting you up for it early day 1 and kept working at it all through that game day. The mislynch choice, reasons, and method of attack were all outlined in the mafia QT of that game. And those plans can be seen in action in the game thread.

I'm not seeing that kind of trajectory here at all.

[ffullisade]

I think my wagon was played out in that not enough people were willing to join it. It might not have been played out in terms of people actually wanting to lynch me, but as it was, it definitely wasn't growing anytime soon.

I'd go read that Mafia QT again, but I'm mildly lazy. Elaborate a bit more?

I understand that he went after me from the very beginning in that game, but that was a 9 player game. This started with what, 24 players? It also probably helps that, at least early on, you couldn't really call me (+ Om) an easy mislynch.

He very quickly sorted the players into that game into lynchable/not, and figured how to keep a townbloc from forming effectively - e.g., working together on day 1. (and it worked. jesus christ did it work as far as any chance of getting him lynched on day 1). And he coached his scum partner on how to take you apart via the contrast in your posting styles. They faced insurmountable odds in that game, but the plan nacho came up with was really the best plan I can think of for stopping that town, and they executed it well.

[ffullisade]

My vote stays where it is.

Going to to the beach. If you want to talk about that game's contrast with this one we can pick it back up later.

[ffullisade]

Nacho, what scum team do you see HD on?

[ffullisade]

Why are you ranting about that stuff?

[ffullisade]

What makes him blue?

[ffullisade]

His push on ThAd --> Push on Baezu when ThAd became obviously town.

I read back through that. The only thing that gives me a little pause is his not voting (e.g. bussing) CTD when the momentum shifted so hard. But, it could have been the speed of the shift.

It doesn't give me enough pause to change my mind.

[ffullisade]

VOTE: akVOTE:

[ffullisade]

VOTE: ak

[ffullisade]

VOTE: AK

Making sure this counts.

[ffullisade]

If we had a block, mollie would have been using it nightly on AK. She never could shake the suspicion

It will take me a while to find it in this monster of a thread, but AK softclaimed a PR on day 1. That's main reason why my vote is on them - mollie caught that crumb, but AK's now all vanilla town and stuff.

[ffullisade]

PA is blue. HD is red along with AK. If we lynch blue, we eliminate a NK. Vote PA.

^ scum along with ak mebbe?

I dunno I have been trying to figure why nacho has been staying away from them.

ak I swear to god you dropped a special tell early on and then called me out for role fishing and you are not dead?

numbers say we are at 2 - 1 - 3 scum scum town.

town need to find each other and I really do think it is within the /ohgodkillmenowgroup

that there is not another single vote on ak tells me she is red scum.

and makes me waffle between nacho and perv.

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE:

town can still yank a win out of this

[ffullisade]

ffullisade, I know I sound like a broken record, but PLEASE explain to me how, knowing that ThAd's shot on Bulbazak was absorbed by protection, only a completely inept JK would use a night action to hinder a vig proving himself, and red scum likely had the only other protective role, Bulbazak isn't scum. I get that people say KK had a town read on Bulbazak, but keep in mind that was also before Slandaar's flip made Bulbazak the counterwagon to a town lynch. Flips -> information -> changed reads overnight.

I'm thinking about what you've said PA.

I'm assuming 3 town. And those 3 town are here for two reasons. We've appeared lynchable, or at least more lynchable than some of the recent night kills. And our reads are wrong enough to contribute to a mislynch.

Which makes me want to reexamine every town read I've got.

[ffullisade]

I'm not thinking PV is scum. I'm asking ffullisade why they have doubts because it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to see how they could be, and the case collapses when considered as a whole. If I'd had a scum read on PV, I'd have helped push his lynch Day Five. Hell, if I was blue scum I sure wouldn't have been defending PV and trying to derail his wagon in favor of the town considering where scum was in the neighborhoods more carefully than any of the presented arguments were doing. Yes, yes, WIFOM and all, but PV was at least at L-2 with people strongly in favor of lynching from the neighborhoods. Pushing that wagon over wouldn't have been hard.

I am not thinking PV is scum. Between CTD's flip and his posts since then, I've put at least that possibility aside.

I think scum are within {AK, bulba, (Nacho or you)} and two of those have been solid town to me for a long while.

[ffullisade]

or

Ffery, either one can answer

If you have anything to claim, then please fucking claim it.

[ffullisade]

or

Ffery, either one can answer

If you have anything to claim, then please fucking claim it.

You can answer our question first.

Bring Mollie back in the thread. I want her to reply to my post.

Sorry, you get to deal with me for now.

See, I figured if if you're town and you had ANYTHING AT ALL that could help narrow things down here at the doorstep of a town loss you would have put it on the goddamn table today. Instead you're being coy.

I am pretty damn sure you are red scum.

[ffullisade]

or

Ffery, either one can answer

If you have anything to claim, then please fucking claim it.

You can answer our question first.

Bring Mollie back in the thread. I want her to reply to my post.

Sorry, you get to deal with me for now.

See, I figured if if you're town and you had ANYTHING AT ALL that could help narrow things down here at the doorstep of a town loss you would have put it on the goddamn table today. Instead you're being coy.

I am pretty damn sure you are red scum.

No, but we are town, but nothing special, but thing that's glaring obvious by now. If we had something, anything I would have said it already by now. I think if I had anything I would have made it known prior days. You are looking for us to give you proof that we don't have.

@Nacho:

Bad vote because we are town.

Yeah, we don't believe you are a PR, and haven't in quite a while.

But, mollie did think you were crumbing a PR on day 1, and that crumb caused her to back off more than once later in the game. She thinks that was intentional - to make it such a subtle signal that it would be deniable, but still obvious enough that she'd see it, since it was mollie you were warning off.

[ffullisade]

mollie and I need to synch before we put our vote down again. Hopefully tomorrow.

[ffullisade]

No, in fact I don't even know what the crumb is.

I didn't crumb jack shit this game and this is what I'm trying to explain. No wasn't intentional because hell I don't even know what you are talking about

. I tried to find something that remotely resembled a crumb and to me nothing looks like one, nothing.

oh really?

Fery can you point Mollie in my direction and ask her to ISO me. I want her to read something - she'll see it when she ISO's us.

AA:

explain why Cephrir and Bulba please?

I can maybe see both Despo/Seanald.

if that is not a soft special claim than I don't know wtf 1 is.

I mean what was I supposed to see your uh...obvious towniness? you have looked like pondscum all game the only reason you have been given as much latitude as you have is cos of your ridiculous level of aTe and soft claiming every time you are put under pressure.

and that is what you have done all game. slaandy and I both went after you on d1 or 2 and you were all like, "I am not the best lynch for today, it will hurt teh townz!!1!!" and

we backed off at the same time which is 1 of the reasons as to why I was reading slaandy as strong town

. thanks for that I guess.

I said d1 that if you were still alive on d3 you should lynched cos I was attributing your scumminess to a possible special. I didn't say the last part out loud but yeah, that is the ONLY reason I backed off when I did. the only 1. and now that it is time time to deliver the goods you are claiming...vt I guess? in some weird roundabout way? I am shocked I tell you, shocked.

and your insistence in talking to me instead invalidates the hell out of fery and gives me the impression that you think you can emotionally manipulate me. lol, what did I tell you, you cannot bullshit a bullshitter.

you should have been lynched A LONG TIME AGO.

VOTE: amethyst kitty

[ffullisade]

Hey bulba you're not trying to set up another 1-1-1 endgame are you?

I think someone walked over my grave.

[ffullisade]

Hey bulba you're not trying to set up another 1-1-1 endgame are you?

I think someone walked over my grave.

If I was scum, I'd be trying to avoid that as much as possible. There's too many ways that could backfire. The only reason that happened in Donner Party was because I was townreading Mala until the final night.

Why are you even considering a 1-1-1 endgame?

Because I'm getting that vibe from you.

[ffullisade]

It has nothing to do with your ISoing. It has everything to do with your interactions with PA.

[ffullisade]

Ok? Explain.

You are legit red scum hunting. Not blue scum. Red.

Just like you were legit mafia hunting in the Donner party game on the penultimate day, though you were wrong. This time, you may be right. I just don't think you are town.

My priority today is red scum. If you were town, you would be straight up red scum hunting, not going after someone who is likely either red or town and calling them blue. You guys can cross-kill to your hearts content tonight.

[ffullisade]

You are legit red scum hunting. Not blue scum. Red.

And? I've already found blue scum. The next logical step is to try to find red. It just turns out that it's more difficult.

My priority today is red scum. If you were town, you would be straight up red scum hunting

I thought your problem with me was that I was "legit red scum hunting". But then you say that your priority today is finding red scum and that I should be red scum hunting if town, which is why you are finding me scummy. So why am I scum again?

not going after someone who is likely either red or town and calling them blue.

I think PA is blue scum. Do you think that she's red or town, and if so, why?

Also, if you think I'm scum, what team am I on?

I think you are blue scum. And I think your interactions today point to her being red scum with AK. But, I could be wrong, and could be mostly picking up on your assumptions in that interaction. In which case Nacho is the other red scum, which would suit my misgivings quite well, but I don't have any conviction at all that's the case.

[ffullisade]

Has anyone seen Peregrine?

Semi-back today.

Who is the blue scum?


Who is the red scum?

Bulb and nacho are red

Mollie/ffer is blue

Revelations came today but isn't enough to get town out of this hole

Its pretty obvious that we don't stand a chance against scum


And its kinda cruel for them to give us a slimmer of false hope

That's all you've got in answer to mollie's post about your PR soft claim? It wasn't the first post she thought was a PR warn off. It's a much more explicit post.

If you're town, you've managed to come up with a slate of scum that I absolutely can't vote today and you've also managed to do absolutely nothing to give me any doubt that I'm wrong and that you could maybe be town.

[ffullisade]

I think you are blue scum. And I think your interactions today point to her being red scum with AK. But, I could be wrong, and could be mostly picking up on your assumptions in that interaction. In which case Nacho is the other red scum, which would suit my misgivings quite well, but I don't have any conviction at all that's the case.

Please explain this, because I honestly have no idea where you're coming from. Also, answer this:

I thought your problem with me was that I was "legit red scum hunting". But then you say that your priority today is finding red scum and that I should be red scum hunting if town, which is why you are finding me scummy. So why am I scum again?

I'm not sure how much more clear I can make this. I think you are blue scum looking for your red antagonists, and you're

saying

that you are blue scum hunting.

This whole speculation about Khan's likelihood of targeting you the night he died strikes me as a conversation between two players who have information that I don't.

[ffullisade]

apparently I want to talk to Fery or Mollie once again gets ignored. Fuck fery was even around when I asked this to.

What are you talking about?

[ffullisade]

mollie's been offline since before you posted that.

I've been around.

Unvote

She and I'll talk tomorrow.

[ffullisade]

@Ffullisade: My question is that you said that I was blue scum because I was legitimately hunting for red scum, while at the same time stating that I should be hunting for red scum if I was town. What then is the difference? Obviously there is one if you are using the same action to say that I'm one over the other. How can you tell the difference between blue scum hunting for red over town hunting for red? Essentially, what is the basis for your case?

YOU ARE HUNTING RED SCUM WHILE CALLING YOUR TARGET BLUE

[ffullisade]

Mollie and I have talked this over again this morning and we are still of the opinion that AK is scum and that she should be today's lynch.

[ffullisade]

Mollie and I have talked this over again this morning and we are still of the opinion that AK is scum and that she should be today's lynch.

Along with what I already said.

I am trying to reach out and work with you and you are refusing.

I don't work with people I think are scum. Sometimes, I suspend disbelief and talk to someone as though I can see they are town, and I see what sort of echoes I get back. I've done that a few times in this game, and have never really gotten back a "lets get this shit sorted out" feel back. When I or Mollie back off, then you seem happy with that and move on.

I'm acting different than DP which at the time I knew who was scum. Here I have not a clue who the scum are because I'm town.

I'll need more than DP to have a clue what you're talking about.

The more I think about it at least either you or Nacho is scum because PereV, Peng & Bulba were in the thread around the same time and we weren't hammered. Which means either you and Nacho are scum together or scum are hunting the other team currently while trying to lynch them and ignoring us.

Or you are scum, which is my thought. If you are town you would have picked up another vote.

The more I think about the Syr NK which made no sense to me looks like a Nacho kill. I forgot about the Thor NK, but I'm not sure how often Thor and Nacho play together, but I'm sure Thor could easily spot scum-Nacho.

OK, but you're positing a Nacho/us team. Where do we fit in?

You keep saying I breadcrumbed in Day 1, but what you posted was in Day 3 or 4 I forget which. So either you are obviously bullshiting or you can't remember where I "potentially" crumbed Day 1. You chose not to engage with me in my current explanation, you flat out ignore it and disregard it.

I do remember the day 1 crumb. I'm not sure it's persuasive outside of its timeframe context. Mollie tells me that for a while it was a thing to hint at being a PR by posting an image when under fire. You did that in an image that was very obviously addressed to her - and to her FoSing you.

Along with your straight out of the bat vote on us Day 7 I don't believe anymore that you have a town-wincon since it's not like Fery to vote so quick in possible LyLo.

That was Mollie's vote, so your argument about me being hesitant to put a vote down is null. I don't use vote tags any more, and haven't for several months. I vote with bold tags. Sticking with that makes it easier to vote by phone, and also is a marker that the vote is mine, and not my partner's when I hydra.

[ffullisade]

that's it.

you have hit the nice button too many fucking times little girl.

first off I was not aware that grocery stores closed at 2 am. sorry I could not be here to cater to your incessant whinging.

secondly, the stunts you have pulled this game are fucking atrocious. you brought an incident from this game into a micros game that you, nero, mara and I were all playing; I replaced out because of it. whenever I vote you, you get on skype and meltdown and then say later "oh I just had a nightmare". there is also an incident in an ongoing game but I will refrain. <-------- all of these occurred after I either voted you or fosed you

in this game

. if you want to tell everyone that they are all unrelated so that you will look good you go right ahead. you are the 1 who has to live with yourself. what you have done here is pretty shitty.

I've done that a few times in this game, and have never really gotten back a "lets get this shit sorted out" feel back. When I or Mollie back off, then you seem happy with that and move on.

^ this. this a million times over.

we told you khan was town. you didn't listen.

I told you thad was town and that you were misapplying the relative tell he has. <------ never ever ever will I share knowledge like that with anybody again, not ever.

you said that you wanted me to iso your posts to address a point that I already answered. if it did not convince me then, then it was not to convince me if I iso-ed you. I disagree, I think you have been soft-claiming pr all freaking game.

all of your posts come from a survivalist mindset at the cost of town. you are not interested in working with any1, you are only interested in pushing your own agenda and oh I am sorry but it certainly does appear to be a town 1.

you reek of desperation. if you are indeed town, which I highly doubt, then this is some of the worst play I have ever seen especially wrt to dragging what goes on in this game elsewhere.

I was going to save a lot of this for post game but no, you have royally pissed me the fuck off.

[ffullisade]

* does not appear to be a town 1

[ffullisade]

FURTHERMORE

I am deathly sick of the level of emotional manipulation that you have brought to this game.

sick of it

. some emotional manipulation is the norm for mafia but you have seriously crossed the fucking line way too many times.

[ffullisade]

AND

look at what you are doing. you are not even interested in helping sort shit out and yet you have the nerve to whine about how you are "oh so town".

bish plz

[ffullisade]

all you have done is get super duper defensive you should lynched with fire and brimstone and I am going to spam mastin's inbox with heartfelt pleas to make it as bloody as possible cos you deserve it.

[ffullisade]

I don't work with people I think are scum. Sometimes, I suspend disbelief and talk to someone as though I can see they are town, and I see what sort of echoes I get back. I've done that a few times in this game, and have never really gotten back a "lets get this shit sorted out" feel back. When I or Mollie back off, then you seem happy with that and move on.

Really?

this coming from the person who followed Nacho's every vote and every word, and every little thing he did as if it was the bible when you believed him to be scum in a Micro?

What game are you talking about?

Second, That is out of line even if you are scum. Mala has been trying to reach out to you, even when her hydra partner no longer had a town-read on you, even when her partner Doesn't want to work with you. What your doing is absolute shit, and you need to stop.

I don't believe I have done anything at all in this game that could be characterized as absolute shit. If Mala has been reaching out to me, it's not been evident to me.

[ffullisade]

I never played a Tracey micro. Or any of Tracey's games where Nacho also played.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you confusing me with Mollie?

[ffullisade]

I'll post what we're thinking tomorrow.

[ffullisade]

I don't think I've ever felt so demotivated about a game.

bulba, PA, nacho

No idea which is blue now.

[ffullisade]

Vote: Nacho

He's red.