Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: slimer

[Mantisdreamz]

i'll be keeping an eye on your arc! after that pikmin game. >.>

[Mantisdreamz]

a bit of both!

i think i got to know some of the scum meta as well

[Mantisdreamz]

[Mantisdreamz]

macmollie - pirate mollie???

[Mantisdreamz]

why is bert town?

[Mantisdreamz]

i see...

[Mantisdreamz]

However Mantis is very likely to be scum so I'm not going to move the vote any time soon.

why om?

[Mantisdreamz]

Desperado, why come in and vote someone who hasn't posted when there's a whole exchange going on right above your post? Mantisdreamz, why ask if pirate mollie's in the macmollie hydra when that info is in the OP?

i didn't see it in the OP

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: slimer
VOTE: macmollie

[Mantisdreamz]

Why the macmollie vote, Mantis?

just to see

i would have liked a friendly greeting from mollie

[Mantisdreamz]

also wisdom, why so quiet?

[Mantisdreamz]

I'm seeing some hydra dissonance with Om and Mara regarding myself.

Do you think hydra dissonance indicates one alignment over the other?

---

...I didn't think he'd posted because when I looked for his name in the ISO menu I was thinking 'newearth' instead of 'thenewearth' and stopped scrolling.

So are you saying you didn't care for Desperado's vote on thenewearth because you didn't think TNE had posted yet? Because you got their name wrong when looking for posts in the Activity Overview area?

---

i didn't see it in the OP

VOTE: macmollie

With as active as you were posting on page one I find if hard to believe you hadn't looked over the OP...especially considering you went to the trouble (for whatever reason???) of posting the ~same picture the mod used in it. And I don't know about everyone else but I know the first thing I usually do when I join a game or the game starts is to see who I'm playing with...and the mod clearly stated who the hydra's players were. So your excuse for asking a question that has already been answered comes across as weak...on top of the fact the asking of the question was unnecessary. All that makes me raise an eyebrow but then you go and vote macmollie for absolutely no reason. So so far your play doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

So VOTE: Mantisdreamz

hmm
no i didn't properly look at the OP. i posted the pic because i wanted to get to the next page for a post count. and i realized, that i had (stupidly) posted the same pic as the mod. (which i kind of found funny at the time)
i kind of think that your vote on me for not reading the OP properly is a little weak, actually. or trying to be played off as a good reason for a vote.
i voted mollie to see how she would react, and also because she has not said much so far. (i've played quite a few games with her)
i raise my eyebrow at you in return.

[Mantisdreamz]

@Bert: Self-Vote, Hydra hating, And ESPECIALLY BOREDOM, Are not tells. They are completely null. COMPLETELY

Desperado Looks so town.
Lynx_Shine is also town.
Nat is bored town-null
I would have said bert is town but...

Vote: Desperado

Bert is scum.

all I wanna do is lynch desp, wis and dry fitz.

tator is town for early paranoia after 1 post, mantis feels town, desp's wking of nats person (hated post #92) makes me want to put nats person as town also she is calling too much attention to herself, bert is town, mantis is town everybody else is pretty boring cos I don't remember any of you

let's see what this does

VOTE: desperado

Why do I feel that... This is such a biased read that came from mollie?

Macmollie also scumz

VOTE: Macmollie

Bert's their buddy. So we can lynch him later

i was thinking that post with

oh and penguin is not boring I have a town read on her too

was a lot of town reads. mollie.. you are generally more paranoid of me, as well. also considering i haven't been posting much.

[Mantisdreamz]

It was page 1. You couldn’t just look at the page to see who had been voted? And what made you think getting to the end of the page…which you didn’t even do, would produce a votecount? Yes...the mod was around and did happen to post a votecount but I don’t see why your posting of a picture would be presumed to facilitate one. And now…in addition to saying you didn’t look at the OP…you’re saying you didn’t even notice the big ass picture at the top of the page….which you had posted on 3 times already? See…I’m of the opinion you’re either making shit up (feigning ignorance about the game) or you are actually just not bothered to know…which I find equally suspect. In summary…I find feigning ignorance and not really being concerned with the game to each be suspect.

you're kind of jumping to conclusions here about not being interested in the game. the feigning ignorance part is a fair enough accusation... but it's not the case. and no, i forgot about the big ass picture at the top of the page, at the time.

i kind of think that your vote on me for not reading the OP properly is a little weak, actually. or trying to be played off as a good reason for a vote.

I can accept the fact some might think it’s a weak vote given that I made it early in page 3…and how often are there really strong reasons to vote someone that early in a game? But they were legitimate reasons IMO nonetheless. As for playing them off as good reasons…the reasons are what they are, I spelled them out clearly. Would you expect someone to try and present bad reasons for voting?

haha. you twisted my words around. no of course not... but scum like to present what seem to be good reasons. and what wisdom said - over justify themselves too.

i voted mollie to see how she would react, and also because she has not said much so far. (i've played quite a few games with her)

Was your vote supposed to make her more active? She had just made a post (a vote on you) prior to you voting her. Why are you pointing out that you’ve been in a lot of games with her? Are you saying you know how to read her?

i think i can, somewhat. up to this point she still seems a little scummy to me... see last post of mine. i agree with thenewearth

[Mantisdreamz]

The rest of you if I forgot you, I RAISE MY EYEBROW AT YOU IN RETURN - Mantisdreamz COPYRIGHT

lol

actually i forgot about lynx. also not sure about nat yet either... but his post here

Oh god.

I have to play a whole game with this Bert guy.

Oh god.

even after he was called out for not really saying much when he posted, kinda looks towny.. in a way. mostly because it looks like he doesn't care

[Mantisdreamz]

A game that you never played...

Mollie will be scum until she gives me something to think that she's town, right now I don't really see anything.

I don't like how, I'm trying to talk to her and she just straight out ignores me while not really doing anything to even try to figure out my alignment.

That isn't paranoia, that was me stating that you were scum because you havn't really done anything that I expect town-mollie to do

1. wrong. it was the coney island game.
2. okay
3. were there some questions that you asked me that I missed? cos so far you are talking about me not to me so I assumed you were talking to other people.
4. oh here you go, first time you have addressed me directly! still nothing there for me to respond to really

pretty sure that slot is scum at this point.

that potato's slot is scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, i'm still getting scummy vibes

[Mantisdreamz]

and mac

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: macmollie

[Mantisdreamz]

is that.....

all

yu have to say to me mantis?

really

? no questions, nothing else, just a "that's a lot of town reads" when you know I get my reads early and meanwhile maintaining a sticky vote on someone you have played over 50 games with?

are you for realz?

VOTE: mantis

you are not even attempting to figure out my alignment.

if I am lynched, hang her

xposts

I don't give a shit mantis I really don't. other than the 1 question you have which yes, I was referring to tator, is that the only question you have for me?

it was the fact that you put me as town, without me only having maybe 5 posts or so (maybe a few more, but not many). that with having to be prodded, when you know my number 1 scumtell is thread avoidance. that's what looked suspicious to me... that you had me as town, despite that.

for the record - my town reads are arc angel, bert, i think wisdom, potato. and your post, with your reads (post 225) looks towny.

i don't like that you got moved to L-1 so quickly, esp after post 225.

which, now that i'm looking tater put a vote on you.. so maybe move them out of town, for that.

kinda agree that lynx is looking calculated.

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, who is scum?

thinking lynx.. i want to vote her, but im just checking the count to make sure i don't hammer yet

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: lynx


who do you think is scum, wisdom?

[Mantisdreamz]

penguin looks towny too, she's doing a lot of question asking, but still kind of cautious of her

[Mantisdreamz]

he seems to be saying whatever comes to him.
but ya, i'm not sure about the macmollie vote.
mm does look more town, cause mollie usually does her reads list, when she thinks she's going to die.

[Mantisdreamz]

who do you think is scum, wisdom?

[Mantisdreamz]

why?

[Mantisdreamz]

also what are your thoughts on lynx?

[Mantisdreamz]

i just finished saying that i moved him out of the town pile.
also, please do not start with the paranoia of me. having flashbacks of you and mollie, game 481

@wisdom

[Mantisdreamz]

that tator thing:

"mollie is scum"

"mollie mollie mollie we are not suspicious of you!!! xoxox"

"yes mollie is scum"

"vote mollie"

the dissonance isn't hydra dissonance it is outright cog-dis with your reads which can come from a single player or a hydra but it is usually scum who forget their reads.

i thought lynx had more votes than she did

[Mantisdreamz]

Nah, Mantis just assumed that this is the reason I'm scumreading you and she's trying to appeal to me.

>.>

[Mantisdreamz]

I'm currently thinking
Potato-Mantis, with Mantis trying to townread Potato but changing her read to appeal to me
or
Potato-Lynx, due to Mara-Lynx unnecessary conversation which looks forced, as well as Lynx's familiarity with Potato that mollie pointed out.
Or maybe all 3 of them are scum.

lynch me then

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, who is scum?

thinking lynx.. i want to vote her, but im just checking the count to make sure i don't hammer yet

how the hell can you hammer when I am in the lynch lead by miles?

and what no opinion on havingfitz who is voting you and actually bothered to post a case on you?

i don't think havingfitz seems overly scummy, to be honest. which is why i havent voted him. his case looked a little sus... but, still not overly scummy.

[Mantisdreamz]

i think there are better lynches than tater, right now

[Mantisdreamz]

....the fuck, Mantis? I say it's potato-A or potato-B and your response is "lynch me"? Why'd I do that?

i said that out of frustration

[Mantisdreamz]

also, i was not appealing to you.
after mollies post, i didn't much like his vote on her.

[Mantisdreamz]

I'm currently thinking
Potato-Mantis, with Mantis trying to townread Potato but changing her read to appeal to me
or
Potato-Lynx, due to Mara-Lynx unnecessary conversation which looks forced, as well as Lynx's familiarity with Potato that mollie pointed out.
Or maybe all 3 of them are scum.

lynch me then

okay.

VOTE: mantis

really?

what happened to that "town" read?

[Mantisdreamz]

1 read?
your reads involve potato and me as scum, and a whole bunch of people as town.

[Mantisdreamz]

also that was a cheap vote mollie.

[Mantisdreamz]

1 read?
your reads involve potato and me as scum, and a whole bunch of people as town.

mebbe you should go look at the reads list I provided that you said I do when I think I am going to die

lol
ok. ya.. i'm just starting to get pissed off. and i still wonder about your 'okay then' vote

[Mantisdreamz]

you said i was hedging. i don't think that's perfectly clear. that and having 1 read.. which, is false.


also, tater looking town again.

[Mantisdreamz]

arc - unsure. the "huh" tell is not rock solid, she does it as scum.

this has me wondering as well. she does look town this game. she seems happier

[Mantisdreamz]

he seems to be saying whatever comes to him.
but ya, i'm not sure about the macmollie vote.

mm does look more town, cause mollie usually does her reads list, when she thinks she's going to die.

hedge

Mantis, who is scum?

thinking lynx

.. i want to vote her, but im just checking the count to make sure i don't hammer yet

1 read

what about the town reads i stated?

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie

Spoiler:

However Mantis is very likely to be scum so I'm not going to move the vote any time soon.
Candidates for scum also include Wisdom and Nat right now.

~Om

This is comforting, I might agree with wisdom-scum here

I think also think that Mac-mollie is scum

, and that we need to keep a close eye on Lynx

I think also think that Mac-mollie is scum, and that we need to keep a close eye on Lynx

Anything I did to cause that or ?

No Your boyfriend did!

seriously though, I know you can be just as, if not more dangerous than he is as scum and he's fooled me before, and I've seen his dangerous works! He says that you have a better town game than he does, and I don't think his town-game is to shabby so if you are town I will enjoy working with you

molliemolliemollie!

what paranoia are you talking about because I don't remember exibiting any kind of paranoia and I don't think Ommy did either?

Elaborate on Despers-scum please, I might follow you there after a chat with Om (Maybe)

... Never mind, though the first question is still applicable

TNEscum is looking fairly likely I think

angel is defintely town though <3

Undecided towards wisdom, I don't think that's a good sign

Keeping our vote on Nats though cuz I don't like what I'm seeing from him so far

this isn't hydra dis like you keep trying to make it out to be. this is flat out cog-dis on mara's end and it shouldn't matter if you both had talked or not she should be able to keep up with her reads and she didn't so i am going to go with you guys being scum.

this is another thing i don't get. you are saying you're going with them being scum because mara didn't keep up with the thread (or got mixed up). town hydras do that all the time as well.

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: lynx
VOTE: macmollie

you know my town game. i very much think you are scum at this point.

[Mantisdreamz]

also i don't think it lacks sincerity

[Mantisdreamz]

in fact mollie, i am CERTAIN you are scum, with that last post!

[Mantisdreamz]

bert has been obvious town
why does he annoy you?

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: macmollie

[Mantisdreamz]

Newearth is still town guys. If you don't think Nat is town, she is a much better lynch today

what makes you say she is town?

[Mantisdreamz]

desp I don't think tne is town. his push on us is really really bad.

I don't like nat either but you are going to have to really push it and sell in order to get it to go through so close to deadline.

I think it was weak, not bad. And even that push was head and shoulders above the scumplay I'm familiar with from him.

Newearth is still town guys. If you don't think Nat is town, she is a much better lynch today

what makes you say she is town?

My read from early in the game is still valid. I saw scum-TNE up close and personal in Micro 150 and this just isn't it.

Seriously, just read this game, it's 13 pages:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=26781

If you still think TNE is scum after reading the link above then we will just have to agree to disagree.

ok thanks. i'll take a read

i was liking her suspicions of macmollie, mostly cause im still suspicious of them myself. (yes even though i unvoted) (wanted to think on it a bit)

[Mantisdreamz]

(yes even though i unvoted) (wanted to think on it a bit)

Not liking this. It indicates that Mantis is thinking of what people will respond to her post and she's trying to cover these possible replies already. Meaning that she cares about how her post appears to others, which is a scumtell.

no. my thinking is that there are you and Bert particularly, who are saying you think she is town. and if she is town, she's good to have in the game.
i don't really like the idea of lynching her first day. but you remember my post - where i said i was certain that she was scum? i still have that in my mind, and i could totally picture her as scum saying that. plus, i don't like that they had arc as unsure, when arc has been obvious town. and i also didn't like their stance on tater... saying that they had to be scum, because of cog dis. not too mention... several pages ago, she has me as scum. if she suspects that i'm scum, she's going to keep her vote on me (i would think).. but instead the vote was moved to thenewearth, then slimer.

[Mantisdreamz]

she has looked obvious town to me

[Mantisdreamz]

do u disagree?

[Mantisdreamz]

I townread her but I don't think she was

obvious

town.

more than unsure

[Mantisdreamz]

Well the fact you townread her does not mean everyone is going to townread her. I don't see what the issue with an unsure read is.

fine then, but there were other things i mentioned as well.

desp - i read newearth's scum game. he did seem more short and nonchalant, in that game.

[Mantisdreamz]

i actually don't think i'd be too opposed to a slimer lynch either.

[Mantisdreamz]

will post soon

[Mantisdreamz]

desperado is a bad vote.
what use would he have as scum to move the lynch away from TNE? no one is that obvious as scum partners. and that's over the top whiteknighting

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: havingfitz

[Mantisdreamz]

Bert in response to 555 (can't quote it seems)
I dunno probably fitz? The guy my votes on.
I don't even remember who serra took over for.
if deadlines not soonish today, ill be able to give a better respinse.
dont think desp though.

[Mantisdreamz]

Anyone, how long till deadline?
Need to read last several pages properly

[Mantisdreamz]

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

[Mantisdreamz]

*on a laptop finally*

nats, why are you listening to me when you are reading me as scum

@ mantis

where have you been. if you are town you don't seem like you give a fuck

where was i listening to you? and yes, i still somewhat think you could be scum. i don't get your read on me as town.. (at the beginning), then sudden switch due to 'hedge' and '1 read'
i was away this weekend and last, then work during the week :/

[Mantisdreamz]

Serrapaladin makes good points. Plus mollie generally reads Mantisdreamz well, and I trust her read here.

Mantisdreamz, intent to hammer. Claim, please.

Sweet Pertayter, if you're around, what changed between #513 and #597 on WRT Mantis?

neighbour with wisdom. it's unknown whether he is town or scum. ( i am town)

[Mantisdreamz]

i still have to catch up... and there has GOT to be scum on the wagon, at least. can't really see what brought on the lynch, to be honest... other than being inactive for a bit, and then a wagon of convenience being started.

also - slimer - thanks. kinda think you are town now.

[Mantisdreamz]

I should be here for two more hours...

Watching the thread while watching the conclusion of Yanks-BoSox

Wait

Serra replaced Angel FFS

UNVOTE:

Do we really have to kill mantis though? I don't want to kill Mantis

Really? You and Mantis somehow forgot that Serra replaced in for ArcAngel when there has been a total of one replacement all game. :/

Your actions are pretty sketchy in the past day or so - I mean, your last post was ->>>

I still prefer wisdom more than anything, but I don't think anyone is going to follow that at this juncture

What do you realistically think you can do with the remaining 4 hours left?

Hope you come back and don't leave us hanging.

oh shush

[Mantisdreamz]

tater is town
even though i do think wisdom is probably town (and they're reading him wrong)

[Mantisdreamz]

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

Regardless of the flip (this is not a Townie post at all though), a quick ISO shows enough scumhunting to not be an information-less lynch.

pedit: Way ahead of you Bert.

good job

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: havingfitz
since not going anywhere

[Mantisdreamz]

Ewwwwww

Neighbors, confusing as heck

indeed
but i do get the sense that wisdom is town
i dunno if the claim is useful.. but if i'm lynched, it may be useful later, when trying to figure out the balance?

also, bert - please remove your vote from me. while i catch up at least.


someone like fitz should be being lynched instead. or... nat? their recent vote on me gets my back up a bit.

[Mantisdreamz]

Character? And reason for finding Wisdom town?

richard castle.
and because he's done stuff like "we're not lynching this person today"
he's done that several times already
which makes me think that he's actually not just wanting to lynch anyone. yes.. scum can do that too. but the amount of times he has... makes me think, more town-like, on his part.

also - hi penguin : )
if you are scum tho -- just revert that smiley face

[Mantisdreamz]

If you're still around for a bit, don't hammer just yet.

I'm a bit busy for another 20 minutes or so, but I do still want to look through stuff.

Could we just have a role call of who's around at the moment, to see whether there is any use in discussing alternatives to mantis/me?

serra, i still have to catch up.
can you explain why you are being voted for?

[Mantisdreamz]

lynx.. im about to ISO Nat.

what are your thoughts on them?
also - macmollie. (cause i'm still not feeling a town thing from them)


eta - mostly cause i don't like their scum read on tater, and myself.

[Mantisdreamz]

So we have present ATM:

Serra, Mantis, Bert, Lynx, Penguin

5

if serra IS present.. i would be very happy if he would answer my question, soon

[Mantisdreamz]

Wisdom, your read on mantis?

pedit: Castle is a damn risky claim if it's fake =T

UNVOTE:

also, why do you need wisdom's read??
you are that sure he is town?

[Mantisdreamz]

bert - do you think that lynx's latest question of wisdom is sus?????

why did she ask him???

[Mantisdreamz]

Alright, I've postponed other stuff, so I'm looking at this now.

UNVOTE:

My gut has mantis back up towards town, which is a bit of an issue.

it is an issue. being that i was considering voting you as well.

who else would you say?

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm starting to feel inclined to vote lynx

[Mantisdreamz]

here

and what do you have to say for yourself, Nat?

[Mantisdreamz]

sure you are

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: Not really

Wisdom hasn't commented much, if at all , about you recently. Plus he may have talked to u before d1?

Sorry phone access only for the rest of the night :/

we talked pre game.

also
VOTE: serra

[Mantisdreamz]

BECAUSE.. this:

So my thinking cap is on, and I'll go through this bit by bit.

God dammit. Time for some bravado.

VOTE: Serrapaladin

Serra

: Please don't consider this vote against you via case. I think you are town and this lynch is being driven by scum. However, I refuse to allow a No Lynch to happen here. Rest assured, I will not let your death be in vain.

Bert

: I think you are the most townie of those in this game. I think you and I are on a similar wavelength at the moment, please don't betray my trust here.

The Town

: I have an idea, but it will only work if I can set it up in private with a player. I know this is a leap of both trust and speculation, but if there is a neighborizer, please speak to me tonight.

The Scum

: I'm Om to you.

For the first time this game, I have a clear plan of action on how to proceed. Despite getting very little done today, I think the town is in prime position for day two. Let's finalize this lynch and go, folks.

This would be such an arbitrary thing for scum to come up with. Either there's some silly stuff going on and Nati has information he's trying to abuse, or this is genuine and he's town. I'm very much leaning the latter. Not lynching him today.

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

This still rings alarm bells, but other posts have me reconsidering.


...

"i think you are scum, but maybe not"
(twice)

[Mantisdreamz]

Slimer, I know you're there. Town Points for voting mantis.

what is this anyway?

[Mantisdreamz]

Then:

630 actually reads genuine to me by tater. I'm willing to believe her, and I suppose that also makes me okay with her progression on me.

mollie still isn't.

Lynx is completely right about slimer, but that's something to address tomorrow.

The neighbour claim is annoying. I'd really want to leave that alone until we get more claims.

If Mala is doing this right, Castle is as likely to be a fakeclaim as anyone else.


As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???

...ok.
am thinking of unvoting.
what do you mean by lynx is not right about slimer? do you have a town read on lynx? and what are your thought on slimer?

why is the neghbour claim annoying??

*back to thinking that you might be a good vote*

Fixed your booched quote tag. 'Cause I'm awesome ~Mala

[Mantisdreamz]

Then:

630 actually reads genuine to me by tater. I'm willing to believe her, and I suppose that also makes me okay with her progression on me.

mollie still isn't.

Lynx is completely right about slimer, but that's something to address tomorrow.

The neighbour claim is annoying. I'd really want to leave that alone until we get more claims.

If Mala is doing this right, Castle is as likely to be a fakeclaim as anyone else.


As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???

...ok.
am thinking of unvoting.
what do you mean by lynx is not right about slimer? do you have a town read on lynx? and what are your thought on slimer?

why is the neghbour claim annoying??

*back to thinking that you might be a good vote*

[Mantisdreamz]

BECAUSE.. this:

So my thinking cap is on, and I'll go through this bit by bit.

God dammit. Time for some bravado.

VOTE: Serrapaladin

Serra

: Please don't consider this vote against you via case. I think you are town and this lynch is being driven by scum. However, I refuse to allow a No Lynch to happen here. Rest assured, I will not let your death be in vain.

Bert

: I think you are the most townie of those in this game. I think you and I are on a similar wavelength at the moment, please don't betray my trust here.

The Town

: I have an idea, but it will only work if I can set it up in private with a player. I know this is a leap of both trust and speculation, but if there is a neighborizer, please speak to me tonight.

The Scum

: I'm Om to you.

For the first time this game, I have a clear plan of action on how to proceed. Despite getting very little done today, I think the town is in prime position for day two. Let's finalize this lynch and go, folks.

This would be such an arbitrary thing for scum to come up with. Either there's some silly stuff going on and Nati has information he's trying to abuse, or this is genuine and he's town. I'm very much leaning the latter. Not lynching him today.

Xpost gimme a chance to claim at least? Christ

This still rings alarm bells, but other posts have me reconsidering.


...

"i think you are scum, but maybe not"
(twice)

Yes, you have posted a few really, really awful posts that. if coming from town make me want to leave an imprint of my forehead in my wall. Unfortunately, there are also posts of yours that sound genuine.

so.... who are you left off with wanting to lynch then?

[Mantisdreamz]

Fixed your booched quote tag. 'Cause I'm awesome ~Mala

woo! ty!

[Mantisdreamz]

Then:

630 actually reads genuine to me by tater. I'm willing to believe her, and I suppose that also makes me okay with her progression on me.

mollie still isn't.

Lynx is completely right about slimer, but that's something to address tomorrow.

The neighbour claim is annoying. I'd really want to leave that alone until we get more claims.

If Mala is doing this right, Castle is as likely to be a fakeclaim as anyone else.


As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???

...ok.

am thinking of unvoting.

what do you mean by lynx is not right about slimer? do you have a town read on lynx? and what are your thought on slimer?

why is the neghbour claim annoying??

*back to thinking that you might be a good vote*

Are you kidding me? You are doing literally EXACTLY what you just voted me for doing.

i asked you questions. ANSWER THEM!!

[Mantisdreamz]

also, where are you penguin?

[Mantisdreamz]

i think desperado and slimer are town. wisdom, what makes you so sure mollie is?

[Mantisdreamz]

as in.. please, can you give me some REAL good reasons as to why? (she, they are)

[Mantisdreamz]

I think lynx is right about slimer, that he's still technically VLA, but has loads of time to post replies to attacks on him, but nothing else. I very much think lynx is town. slimer is the scummy side of null, but still needs to go.

Neighbour claims are annoying, because it's often useful to keep them alive until more of the setup is known, so we can judge how many of them are scum.

Oh just shut up Wisdom, you've made it obvious you're not considering any alternatives to your view, so just start preparing your letter of apology.

if you are town, maybe you should start your apology preparation.

i do think lynx is town,, for the most part.
why does slimer need to go? cause of the inactive thing?

[Mantisdreamz]

i think desperado and slimer are town. wisdom, what makes you so sure mollie is?

Not feeling like scum-mollie

why ? i just mean, can you explain more??

because i am still wary of them

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, why do you think I'm scum?

well, you replaced for arc.. who i thought was very much town. to be honest, i don't have that much of an impression yet, of you.. other than my last quote of you, where you were like "ya maybe scum, maybe not".. which looks wishy washy. that's the only temporary reason, right now, that i have you as a possibility.

that's why i asked YOU, if (you are town).. where else you would look, for scum. (pretty sure you didnt answer that yet)

[Mantisdreamz]

Still here checking sporadically

As I said I am phone-only for the rest of the night so I'm of little use :/

so you're useless!

[Mantisdreamz]

It's just a feeling. I think she actually tries to figure people out, like when she was saying that Mara did similar things in another game.

serra, what is that neighbour question about?

my thing, is that she put me as town at the beginning (for poor reasons).. and then suddenly out of nowhere, i became ultra scum)
just doesn't seem all in place, for me

[Mantisdreamz]

also, what''s wrong with voting havingfitz? seriously

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm not trying to cause a huge fuss about who should be lynched between us. i''m trying to figure out if you are indeed town, and whether i should move my vote elsewhere

[Mantisdreamz]

Actually, even desp probably isn't realistic anymore.

no. but i wouldn't want to lynch him anyway

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: serra

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe nat

[Mantisdreamz]

I don't think there's time for alternatives.

wisdom, pressure macmollie

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, what's wisdom's character?

i have no idea

[Mantisdreamz]

actually... serra, pressure macmolle AND penguin

[Mantisdreamz]

what did he say in your QT?

we had like, 2 minutes to talk.
and nothing was said, other than we would try to figure out each others alignments in thread.
:/

[Mantisdreamz]

i was just thinking of actually voting penguin....

[Mantisdreamz]

also, no - i don't think so. re mollie

[Mantisdreamz]

i would be happy with either NAT or fitz

[Mantisdreamz]

The only person I'd lynch over serra right now is havingfitz. Or maybe Natirasha. But there's no time for either wagon to happen.

so then who are we settling for??????????

[Mantisdreamz]

Wisdom, why are you even here? You're not contributing and you're not showing any willingness to change your mind.

kinda

[Mantisdreamz]

bert??? what say you?

[Mantisdreamz]

hmmm lynx..

[Mantisdreamz]

Worst neighbors ever btw

you're the worst

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis I really did feel Scum before, but I believe the claim. I still don't understand the "give me a minute to claim" because...wow. Wisdom looks too resistant to change some views imo, stubborn Town.

5 people not voting 2 hours before the deadline.

...okay.

I'm in those five not voting because I'm here right now. The closest we are to lynch right now is serra, and while I'd vote serra before no lynch, it's not my personal preference. I don't want a vote parked on serra.

Before anyone asks macmollie and slimer I still feel good vote, I'd go for Desp. But none of them are close to lynch.

pedit: penguin > NL (not exactly a strong Scum read), would go for macmollie yes

ppedit I can't post this because something always comes up in the preview, is there a way to turn that off jesus

and why would you 'go for' Desp?

[Mantisdreamz]

With six people here, we have three options to lynch: Serra, mac, mantis. Let's keep between those three for now or we'll never get a lynch.

fitz is fine with me though.

sure he is

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: Nat

[Mantisdreamz]

Hell, if peng is gone, there probably aren't even enough people to get you lynched...

[Mantisdreamz]

no lynch then? realistically its between you and i.

[Mantisdreamz]

wis, is there any chance you'd vote mantis to avoid a no lynch?

what the hell?

[Mantisdreamz]

Do you want me to self vote?

no

[Mantisdreamz]

at least wisdom.. have you reverted on your serra is scum thing?

[Mantisdreamz]

honestly do think peng or Nat could be scum tho

[Mantisdreamz]

Uggghhhhhhhhh

oh shush

[Mantisdreamz]

Hi Bert. How do you think this day should end?

don't ask him

[Mantisdreamz]

I don't think Nat is scum. Peng might be, but she's not one of my real scumreads.

ya but.. who IS one of your real scum reads???? you said you MIGHT for this person, or that person. but you haven't really been adamant

[Mantisdreamz]

and why would you 'go for' Desp?

He's been pretty null, I don't like and haven't seen anything highly Town since 530. However we also had your waiting on claim. It's not enough for me to say conf-Scum.

Other people have expressed disapproval against him, and we're getting to the point of "just reach a decision already." He's someone I wouldn't actively be against voting for as opposed to "only will vote to avoid NL." Same goes to thenewearth, who has also been brought up. havingfitz I don't have enough of an opinion on to say if he's a willing vote or "avoid NL."

the thing with havinngfitz, is that he's been totally absent. i wouldnt mind seeing him lynched. probably because of being biased as well, with his case on me at the beginning.. which was stupid!

[Mantisdreamz]

Well how do you think it should end?

How have I not been adamant?

I want to lynch desp. I really want to lynch slimer. I also sort of want to lynch mollie.

Desp is my realest scumread. Mollie/slimer/wis come next, of which slimer most needs to die because just look at his posts.

this is what i don't get. how is desp and wis, in the top for your scum reads?? can you explain? (i might have to look back some) (or if you have links, that would be good)

[Mantisdreamz]

Why are you even discussing him? We have much more urgent matters at hand.

Not true, Bert. If Mantis, Nati, you and me vote for me, I can be today's lynch

im discussing him, because it seems like fitz could be scum. who cares about urgent matters at hand. look at his posts.

i;d rather no lynch today.

[Mantisdreamz]

Is that really the only option here? Uggggh

i still don't believe whatever you say!

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE:

NAT

[Mantisdreamz]

Well how do you think it should end?

How have I not been adamant?

I want to lynch desp. I really want to lynch slimer. I also sort of want to lynch mollie.

Desp is my realest scumread. Mollie/slimer/wis come next, of which slimer most needs to die because just look at his posts.

this is what i don't get. how is desp and wis, in the top for your scum reads?? can you explain? (i might have to look back some) (or if you have links, that would be good)

I could, but I'm really really tired. If you go through my iso, I'm sure you'll find a decent explanation of you're looking for, particularly for desp.

either way, im not voting you or him today

[Mantisdreamz]

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NAT. IT'S LITERALLY OF ZERO USE!!

it's my vote!!!

[Mantisdreamz]

whyd you vote him in the first place then??????

[Mantisdreamz]

bah

[Mantisdreamz]

what about.... a FITZ wagon?!

[Mantisdreamz]

can it be done?

[Mantisdreamz]

Nope. serra and you are the only viable wagons and those two are the ones I've been on.

Yup, L-1 Mantis with intent to hammer really was never a viable wagon.

i agree

[Mantisdreamz]

serra, i just finished giving you the benefit of doubt, how about you do the same

[Mantisdreamz]

I will compromise on fitz, Mantis. VOTE: havingfitz

*paranoid thoughts*

[Mantisdreamz]

he is possible

[Mantisdreamz]

serra, i just finished giving you the benefit of doubt, how about you do the same

Oh don't get me wrong, I do have you as town by now, I'm just wondering why wisdom is so sure of it.

because my scum game sucks, and is obvious

[Mantisdreamz]

We don't have fucking time for fitz

YOU STARTED VOTING NATI LIKE 10 FUCKING MINUTES AGO

ya bt he brought up fitz waay before that

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: Nat{unvote]...
VOTE: Fitz

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: Nat
VOTE: Fitz

[Mantisdreamz]

Just like he knows town-Slimer, town-mollie, scum-serra and a thousand fucking other people in this game.

i still don't believe he know s town mollie
but my scum game is atrocious and anyone can spot it

[Mantisdreamz]

why are you so concerned serra?

[Mantisdreamz]

wow Mantis you're contributing to the no-lynch, good going.

WHAT FUCKING PART OF THERES NO TIME FOR FITZ DO YOU ALL NOT GET

holy shit!

i thought there was an option for it. >.>

[Mantisdreamz]

NAts, teh scum... yes, i will choose to lynch fitz over you.. for now

[Mantisdreamz]

wisdom, and bert

[Mantisdreamz]

wisdom.. and tater?

[Mantisdreamz]

you're not getting my vote on this scum-made wagon.

vote fitz!!!!!!!

[Mantisdreamz]

you're not getting my vote on this scum-made wagon.

also, you have to be kidding me.
you were the one who thought fitz was scum????
you are seriously not voing him at this moment???

[Mantisdreamz]

STUBBORN!!!!!!!!

[Mantisdreamz]

you're not getting my vote on this scum-made wagon.

vote fitz!!!!!!!

you're less stupid than this.

let's be serious for a sec. why are you not voting fitz? first of all, to not have a no lynch. second of all, you have already claimed throughout the thread, that you would be happy voting him. so, what is the problem???

[Mantisdreamz]

Yes I'm not voting him after serra and Nat escaped their lynch the way the did. Lynch him without me.

wisdom, seriously.

[Mantisdreamz]

the problem is that this wagon was made by serra and Nat so they can avoid their lynches.

serra is town. not sure about nat... but i like fitz over her/hiim.

you already said that you'd be happy with a fitz vote.
don't be weird

[Mantisdreamz]

the problem is that this wagon was made by serra and Nat so they can avoid their lynches.

serra is town. not sure about nat... but i like fitz over her/hiim.

you already said that you'd be happy with a fitz vote.
don't be weird

[Mantisdreamz]

i don't think wisdom is scum..

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: penguin alien
peng on the other hand

[Mantisdreamz]

tater.. vote penguin.
or, what are your thoughts on her?

[Mantisdreamz]

Oh god

where did that neighbor hood claim come from and why are you using it like the two of you are conf. town when that probably isn't the case?

Mantis, I'm unsure of Peng though I do like Nats. what are your thoughts on him?

on Nats? i'm unsure still. i kind of want to lynch penguin over him.

i'm not treating it wisdom like he's conf-town. but he seems like he is town.

[Mantisdreamz]

i don't think wisdom is scum..

btw what's this weak little voice here, Mantis? You seemed much more confident I am town in the QT, what happened now?

you misinterpreted. i was saying simply i dont think you are scum. no weak voice

macmollie... i still kind of think you might be.
i thought you were onto tater last time around? and me?
why the sudden push on wisdom?

my thoughts on slimer is that he seems townish. but that could be due to being biased.

[Mantisdreamz]

and om what do you make of wisdom's post 932 about serra? cos i find it pretty damning.

see.. this is what i don't get... yesterday you said tater is "scum scum scum"
why are you asking his opinion llike you think he is town??

[Mantisdreamz]

penguin
macmollie

[Mantisdreamz]

you misinterpreted. i was saying simply i dont think you are scum. no weak voice

You were saying it.. You weren't confident though. Can you confidently say I am town?

i did do a reread of the QT.. and kinda thought that you were saying things that i just can't see you say as scum.
so ya, i have you as town. not just with the QT though.. other stuff as well.
i don't even think i have that minor paranoia

[Mantisdreamz]

i don't necessarily think Nat or tater HAVE to be scum though, because they're pushing on you (wisdom)

[Mantisdreamz]

and om what do you make of wisdom's post 932 about serra? cos i find it pretty damning.

see.. this is what i don't get... yesterday you said tater is "scum scum scum"
why are you asking his opinion llike you think he is town??

that was mollie. i am mac.

i dont like hydra dissonance as much as the next man but me and mollie haven't got our heads together yet so im afraid you will just have to live with it for now.

the posting has all been me so far today though.

i see...
it's looking a bit sus to me.

[Mantisdreamz]

macmollie is town, Mantis.
As I told you, you might be right about penguin, but can you let her aside and focus on what's happening here?
Do you think serra is town despite what I said? Do you think both tater and Natirasha are town despite their lining up my lynch yesterday and pushing it today?

i keep firm with what i said... why on earth would any scum (serra) offer to be lynched up??? doesn't matter about serra not wanting to vote Nat. the main thing is.. it's just to risky for a scum to offer to self vote. that's all there is to it.

[Mantisdreamz]

macmollie is town, Mantis.

also.. ok. i go back and forth tho

[Mantisdreamz]

sooo.. then why aren't you pushing a serra lynch, if you mean what you say??

[Mantisdreamz]

instead you are pressuring wisdom who has been saying that serra is scum
do you think they are scum togehter???

[Mantisdreamz]

sooo.. then why aren't you pushing a serra lynch, if you mean what you say??

are you reading mantis? my vote is on serra, I'm asking for opinions about serra. but im also trying to figure out if im right about your neighbour being town, and wondering why he wont fucking work with me.

pedit no there is a quote where i say i think there is one scum in wis/serra. now im trying to figure out who it is.

alright..
so you really think that serra escaped the lynch yesterday? you might have said.. but you can (again if you did) give any good reasons why you think serra is scum??

[Mantisdreamz]

for example
you say here

and om what do you make of wisdom's post 932 about serra? cos i find it pretty damning.

wisdom's post:

Anyone who townreads serra - fucking explain to me this.

serra states that he's willing to self-hammer over a no-lynch:

No lynching at an odd number with likely 1 NK is just really bad. I'm just a VT (Javier Esposito), so I'll be sure to self-hammer if you guys can't get the votes together, and get back to playing more f2f instead.

That means he's willing to lynch someone who he knows town, the only one who he knows town, over a no-lynch. Good so far.

Then he refuses to vote Natirasha for a deadline lynch, which he supposedly does NOT know town. He tries to form wagons on anyone else, but when people vote Natirasha he goes "OMG NO DONT VOTE FOR NATIRASHA, ITS NO USE" and votes someone else instead. And then he and Natirasha form a wagon on havingfitz.

Tell me why the fuck would town-serra refuse to vote someone whose alignment he doesn't know when previously he was willing to vote himself in order to avoid the no-lynch. Go and read what happened and tell me why the fuck he would do it. See how he was talking about potentional mollie or Desp wagons, yet refused to vote Natirasha when Natirasha already had 4 votes on him. And then had no problem voting havingfitz either. Fucking explain how serra is town doing this.

so it sounds like you are on wisdom's side here. even to the point of asking OM to see if he agrees about how damning wisdom's case is.
it just looks like you're agreeing with him, so i don't get why you're now saying that it is one of either of them.
it looks really suspicious.

[Mantisdreamz]

sooo.. then why aren't you pushing a serra lynch, if you mean what you say??

are you reading mantis? my vote is on serra, I'm asking for opinions about serra. but im also trying to figure out if im right about your neighbour being town, and wondering why he wont fucking work with me.

pedit no there is a quote where i say i think there is one scum in wis/serra. now im trying to figure out who it is.

alright..
so you really think that serra escaped the lynch yesterday? you might have said.. but you can (again if you did) give any good reasons why you think serra is scum??

im leaning towards it. 932 is a perfectly good explanation as to why serra could be scum. yes it is wisdom's post but the point still stands.

you have no reasons of your own?

[Mantisdreamz]

serra, please chime in

[Mantisdreamz]

okay I see it.

but why not?

also

@ mantis

I think I was unnecessarily harsh to you and I apologise.

I am just frustrated cos I am not understanding you in this game. at all.

it's fine.. but let's just stop saying stuff like 'terribad and weak play'! for now..

not sure how my play has been super weak. i don't have a lot of scum reads. and you kept saying that i was mixing stuff up... which, yes, last night i didn't realize that mac actually did have his vote on serra, when i asked him why he wasn't pushing serra's lynch.

i didn't get his agreeing with wisdom's case on serra, yet still finding wisdom scummy. you have to admit, that it was kind of weird.


what do we all think about Lynx?

[Mantisdreamz]

I think at this point we need to hear from Serra.

wanted to quote this as well. i totally agree.. instead of running circles around why he was not willing to vote you, he can explain further.
i still don't get why he'd offer to self vote as scum (yes wisdom, i read your post on one of these pages re WIFOM). but his posting at the time, just before deadline - didn't seem restricted, or awkward.. which is why i changed my mind about him being scum, at the time.

to be honest, after reading the last 10 pages of day 1 or so (after the fact), everyone who was posting then seemed kinda townish. i think what mollie said --- maybe looking at people who are not in the spotlight, might not be a bad idea at all.

ie thenewearth, (penguin to an extent)

xpost - shit.

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, what do you think about serra/penguin/Desp? I'm feeling more and more this is accurate.

i'll look at Desp again, and then say. and i want to read some of penguin's latest (longish posts)
and want to see more of what serra says.

[Mantisdreamz]

I am saying terribad and wis is calling it weak play.

last night is not the only time you have not followed along with the convo. I have been pointing it out all game.

and no, what mac did was not weird, it called following a suspect when you think they are bussing and that is what he was doing you really should have learned this from raven.

tell me what do YOU think about lynx?

lynx is dead, mollie :p


ya well, i've been reading the thread as i can. remember how i used to get fosed for my schedule before?

[Mantisdreamz]

I think at this point we need to hear from Serra.

wanted to quote this as well. i totally agree.. instead of running circles around why he was not willing to vote you, he can explain further.
i still don't get why he'd offer to self vote as scum (yes wisdom, i read your post on one of these pages re WIFOM). but his posting at the time, just before deadline - didn't seem restricted, or awkward.. which is why i changed my mind about him being scum, at the time.

to be honest, after reading the last 10 pages of day 1 or so (after the fact), everyone who was posting then seemed kinda townish. i think what mollie said --- maybe looking at people who are not in the spotlight, might not be a bad idea at all.

ie thenewearth, (penguin to an extent)

xpost - shit.

so what about d2?

i brought up the last 10 pages of day 1 specfically, because those pages moved very quickly. no one who was there at the time, was really holding back or staying out of the spotlight

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, what do you think about serra/penguin/Desp? I'm feeling more and more this is accurate.

well this does stand out a bit

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p5193473
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5193481

^those 2 posts. and then:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5193496

stating that she is null.

[Mantisdreamz]

fuck

[Mantisdreamz]

please ignore post 1270

*must not get things mixed up* *repeat*

[Mantisdreamz]

I am saying terribad and wis is calling it weak play.

last night is not the only time you have not followed along with the convo. I have been pointing it out all game.

and no, what mac did was not weird, it called following a suspect when you think they are bussing and that is what he was doing you really should have learned this from raven.

tell me what do YOU think about lynx?

lynx is dead, mollie :p


ya well, i've been reading the thread as i can. remember how i used to get fosed for my schedule before?

I knew lynx was dead are you seriously trying to pawn off that you must be town cos oops you didn't know that.

jesus christ you have done this before as scum but unfortunately you have done this as town too.

and no one is fosing you for your schedule.

where was i trying to pawn off being town because of that?


@slimer - ya. i think i'm overly paranoid about not mixing things up, while trying to read as quick as possible, at the same time!

[Mantisdreamz]

don't be coy. you knew exactly how that post would come across.

no, i forgot she was nightkilled. was looking at the OP list of players just beforehand and was looking at players that i didn't have a good feel for.

slimer - nah, just trying to read quick cause i'm impatient


mollie - why exactly do you have peng as strong town? i don't really like her recent posts on wisdom

[Mantisdreamz]

macmollie, you're probably not getting me this game because for the most of it, i've had a scum read on you.
anyway, kinda think you probably are town, esp with all the back and forth in recent pages.

[Mantisdreamz]

Glad i could be of brief entertainment value bert :p

i was thinking slimer seemed kinda towny as well...going back to end of day 1

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: penguin
VOTE: Desp

[Mantisdreamz]

wisdom, the case on serra is not really great. it only involves him not wanting to vote for Nat, and somehow thinking he escaped the lynch. who - at the time, i was against lynching, as well. so it wasn't like it was all him sneakily bypassing his way out of it.

[Mantisdreamz]

Hi, yes i am.

[Mantisdreamz]

what are your reasons for voting desp mantis

because i believe that serra & nat are town. and i'm in a way, sheeping serra's vote on him. but at the same time, not really having a town or scum read of desp. plus, i think this lynch will go through over penguin (who i would prefer first, i think).

sorry peng - if you are town. just not seeing your obvious town play.

[Mantisdreamz]

11 DAYS away from the deadline and you're giving your penguin wagon so easily? Without doing anything at all to try and push it? And you vote someone you don't scumread because you want to sheep someone who is town? Who the fuck says that if someone is town their reads are accurate?

And then you apologize to penguin because you scumread her?

Just what the fucking fuck.

i apologized to penguin, if she's town. i know how annoying it is to be tunneled on by someone, if you are indeed town. >.>

listen though - i'm just not as certain of serra being scum, as you are. i know you dislike his insistence on lynching slimer.. and then the refusal to vote for nat, amongst other things. but that doesn't make him 100% scum to me.

i could blindly follow you onto him, but not going to do it, at least right at this moment. i still do want to hear more of what he has to say. and plus, even if he IS scum there are 2 others. and i really have no good ideas about who exactly they might be. (penguin is still my best

guess

)


also, stop saying derp please. it's starting to get to me. though, i will admit that you guys aren't totally wrong... probably slowly losing interest in mafia might have something to do with that and trying to fly through the thread as quick as possible...


i'll try to put my reads into a list of some sort soonish

[Mantisdreamz]

because as i said, there doesn't seem to be a lot of support on penguin-scum. >.>

[Mantisdreamz]

I think mantis is messing with us and this is all a ruse, does anyone else feel that way

still can't get over the "OH Lynx is dead?? REALLY?" schtick

LMAO

this is just the whipped cream on top of a fruit cake, baby

[Mantisdreamz]

If she's your top scumread, make a case and convince us why she's scum.

fine

[Mantisdreamz]

i did make mention that her latest posts of slowly gaining suspicion on you, for your character claim, didn't sit well with me. esp since everyone pretty much agrees you are town.

[Mantisdreamz]

What? Can you quote which posts you mean?

Spoiler:

So Mantis and Wisdom are neighbors. Mantis claimed first as Richard Castle, and Wisdom claimed second as Alexis Castle. This is so blatantly town-town character-wise, I'm not sure why they'd be neighbors and not masons. (Richard and Martha, OTOH...) Which is the only thing making me uneasy: if Wisdom fake-claimed something he figured would look super-town with Mantis's claim.

Wisdom, irrespective of the above, if I'm interpreting the gazillion pages of posts right, you had a scum read on havingfitz. But you didn't want to vote there because you thought scum had organized the wagon? But that didn't make you have a town read on havingfitz at the time, as far as I can tell. None of that translates into a town-Wisdom who would have wanted one of his scum reads to flip; it looks more like a scum-Wisdom who'd made up his scum read on havingfitz and figured that when havingfitz flipped town he'd be able to use it to push the people who'd started the quicklynch wagon.

I know you have strong ideas, and heaven knows I've been scared away from wagons because I didn't like the people who were on them. But that usually applies for me when there are choices, e.g. my town reads are on another wagon. That wasn't an option here.

Spoiler:

and figured that when havingfitz flipped town he'd be able to use it to push the people who'd started the quicklynch wagon.

So I would push people for starting a deadline wagon, even if it was on town? Deadline wagons on town happen all the time.
Also, are you saying that I made up my havingfitz read at the beginning of the day, knowing what will happen at the end of the day?

No, I'm saying that you scumread someone at the start of the day (

and didn't change that read during the day IIRC

looking over your ISO this didn't change at all) who wasn't actually in much danger of getting lynched until right at deadline. He never had more than one vote on him until that last flurry of wagoning. Scum likes other people to lynch their town reads while holding onto their purported scum reads to use as fodder for later in the game. If you're Mafia, you had no especial reason to think havingfitz was an SK; the odds from your perspective would have had him as a townie. So here comes deadline, wagons forming and collapsing elsewhere, and suddenly people are forming one on someone whose lynch you've been advocating. How to avoid jumping on the wagon? Say it's now scum-motivated. You can't backtrack on your havingfitz read without looking like a hypocrite, but you can find a reason to stay off the wagon anyways.

Bottom line, if you're scum you were probably hoping to get a wagon on presumed town-havingfitz somewhere down the line. You have a reputation for tunneling, so no one would think it odd for you to come back to a read you'd been holding since early game later on.

2nd one not as much... but toying with the idea that you're mafia

[Mantisdreamz]

oh for christsakes. i was thinking this didn't appear like her town game as i made mention to you in the QT.

but no, those posts didn't help.

[Mantisdreamz]

So your case is "this doesnt look like her town game" and "she scumreads Wisdom".
And that's supposed to warrant a lynch over someone like serra?

did you let me go through her posts and make a case?