Mini 1482: Castle - A Mafia Murder So Vile (GAME OVER)

[Wisdom]

VOTE: slimer
Scum again, aren't you?

[Wisdom]

macmollie - pirate mollie???

yes, mollie and Mac.

Bert and ArcAngel look like town so far, Mara not so much.

[Wisdom]

Why the macmollie vote, Mantis?

[Wisdom]

Bert is town.
Lynx and Desperado's attempts to read Bert also look kind of genuine, so they are probably town.
I'm not sure about Potato. Mara gives me strange vibes, I need her to post more. Om went to push Bert but Mara stopped him, I see this as kinda town I guess.
Mantis also needs to post some more so I can accurately read her, she's leaning town already though.
My first impression on thenewearth, ArcAngel, and penguin is that they're town as well.

slimer total null, where is he?

macmollie and Natirasha are in the nullscum category - not a fan of macmollie's Mantis vote, and not a fan of Natirasha's self-metaing and avoiding-content play.

havingfitz is scum. 62 is terrible, especially the reasoning on the Mantis vote. Not only it looks like an overjustification for such an early stage, but it makes too many assumptions that arrive at forced conlusions (for example "i always read the op, everyone is supposed to read the op, you didn't, you're scum")

UNVOTE:
VOTE: havingfitz

[Wisdom]

Seeing as I've played 5 games with Mara and none with you, I'll obviously base my read off Mara.

[Wisdom]

I haven't. You have only modded one game I replaced in.

[Wisdom]

Hey.
What do you think of the game so far?

[Wisdom]

Why are you voting Desp, mollie?

[Wisdom]

macmollie - town

Why?

[Wisdom]

macmollie is actually town, nevermind.

My Desp townread is starting to weaken, I'm feeling he's sheeping people too easily.
Other reads stay the same, with Bert and ArcAngel townreads becoming even stronger.

Also mollie, I'm still on L/A. I don't care much about game paces.

[Wisdom]

lying..?

People said Bert is town, you sheeped them.
People started saying Wisdom might be scum, you sheep them.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, Mollie said she read Bert as town and provided meta that supported the read. Do you disagree with her assessment?

I said Bert is town long before Mollie said anything, so you can figure out if I disagree.

[Wisdom]

He's wrong about Fitz

Unless you're a daycop or scum, you don't know if I'm wrong or not. And I don't see any reasoning as to why I'm wrong either.

and I'd be interested in his take on #128.

Not particularly caring about it. I can see either town or scum havingfitz answering this way. He still feels like scum to me.

I also don't understand his Mantis read. He says they just lean town and needs to post more, but two of his scum reads are directly related to votes on Mantis. I don't really understand the thought process there.

I've played with Mantis a lot and I know how to read her when she posts enough. She still hasn't done so. From the little she has done though, I got townvibes. The two votes on Mantis on the other hand gave me bad vibes, exactly because Mantis is a player that scum usually think they can push.

[Wisdom]

It's never unlikely, but her last posts seem kind of townish. Not my top pick right now.

What do you think about havingfitz?

[Wisdom]

Complete V/LA for the next two days or so

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: sweet pertrayer

Why the fuck is macmollie at L-1? This is quite obviously town mollie.

[Wisdom]

Mantis, who is scum?

[Wisdom]

Why is potato a townread for you?

[Wisdom]

potato, and probably you. I'm not getting townvibes from you anymore.

[Wisdom]

Unsure. Could be scum with potato too.

[Wisdom]

My vote is not based on your mollie vote.
But do explain why it's "fucking terrible".

[Wisdom]

itt potato is scum thinking they're being accused for the wrong reasons.

[Wisdom]

Nah, Mantis just assumed that this is the reason I'm scumreading you and she's trying to appeal to me.

[Wisdom]

My reason for voting you is your "we haven't talked with mara" posts. It seems like an excuse to nullify everything that you have posted, and it does not feel natural.
The mollie vote after mollie has obvtowned and I know Mara can read her is an extra, of course.

[Wisdom]

I'm currently thinking
Potato-Mantis, with Mantis trying to townread Potato but changing her read to appeal to me
or
Potato-Lynx, due to Mara-Lynx unnecessary conversation which looks forced, as well as Lynx's familiarity with Potato that mollie pointed out.
Or maybe all 3 of them are scum.

[Wisdom]

You're acting like a complete idiot by treating mollie like a confirmed-town when nobody is ever confirmed in mafia unless the mod fucking says so or they die.

Uneccessary bullshit and attempts to discredit my townreads. mollie is town, it's very very obvious for someone who knows how to read her.

[Wisdom]

....the fuck, Mantis? I say it's potato-A or potato-B and your response is "lynch me"? Why'd I do that?

[Wisdom]

You're not scum for not having the same reads as me (although Mara not doing so certainly adds to the scumminess because she can read her). You are scum for trying to discredit my read though.

[Wisdom]

And Om's frustration continues to remind me of scum being accused for the wrong reasons.

[Wisdom]

wisdom, why are you defending mollie, this is not town mollie in anyway

Then you don't know what town mollie looks like.

[Wisdom]

Desperado did the same thing on trying to discredit reads in my quote at the top of this post, you said nothing about him (unless I'm misinterpreting).

Nope, that's not the same. Desperado is asking you and others to explain your reasoning for mollie-scum. This has town motivations; if you're scum it won't be easy to come up with reasons given mollie is being very town, and therefore you may be caught.

[Wisdom]

we should talk about wisdom

mollie do you really have to do this every game?

[Wisdom]

when I wasn't even able to do so in Polyg

I don't think that you had problems reading mollie there?

[Wisdom]

No Lynx. Potato isn't scum for not thinking mollie is scum. Read the thread.

[Wisdom]

k then
Could Mac sign his posts?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
Mantis is town actually. That changes my world view.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, them being a bad hydra could explain these weird vibes they're giving.

[Wisdom]

It wasn't stated in thread, though it was there. There was one point where I asked for your reads just to see how you would respond

There goes your original point

[Wisdom]

and the weird vibes is probably me trying to play a more erratic playstyle just to try and keep up with Ommie?

I don't get it. Can't you keep up with Om by discussing? Why the hell would you change your playstyle? And how does changing your playstyle make you keep up with Om?

[Wisdom]

Would you expect something different from town-Mantis?

[Wisdom]

what you displayed last night was not keeping up with the thread cos you forgot in the space of an hour what you had said prior. you can't even keep your story straight. and that is SUPERDUPER scummy.

In fact, can you elaborate on this?

[Wisdom]

I don't see why Mantis wouldn't do that post as town though.

[Wisdom]

Go right ahead!

[Wisdom]

Lynx looks town for that post, but she's wrong. mollie telling Bert to do things is not a scumtell for her.

[Wisdom]

In post 239, Sweet Pertayter wrote:
VOTE: macmollie
Lets just say this was achieved through our discussion.

~Om


IIRC this is an example of Om being Om.
Which is pretty null.

what
So Om usually says that a vote was achieved through discussion? Was Om in hydras in all the games you've played with him?

[Wisdom]

Fuck this, I got prodded again.
Lets lynch Natirasha today

VOTE: Natirasha

You never explained why mollie is scum.
And why do you want to lynch Natirasha over mollie?

[Wisdom]

Shit, just noticed the deadline. We have 1 day and some hours left.

VOTE: thenewearth
His last post gave me bad feelings, and I don't really feel especially good about any lynch, so this is my pick for a deadline lynch.

[Wisdom]

I don't know about Nat, his play is weird no doubt but it might just be playstyle.
I prefer tne or maybe havingfitz.

[Wisdom]

What makes macmollie wagon good, slimer?

[Wisdom]

@Desp
If you think you can read someone just by reading one (1) scumgame of theirs, we will definitely agree to disagree.

[Wisdom]

slimer votes are terrible btw. Especially from people who have played with him before. We'll figure him out later, we're not lynching him now.

[Wisdom]

Ooh, but I don't like Wisdom's tne vote. He seems way too glad about having found a suitable mislynch target that he can write off as a DL lynch.

I could point at anyone and call them a DL lynch, why would it have to be specifically tne? Your assumptions are wild and bad.

[Wisdom]

Town-Wisdom usually

Not reading the rest.

[Wisdom]

So I feel desp/Wis as scum, with a likely third among {slimer, mantis, Nati, fitz}.

no tne in here despite calling one of his posts horrible. Noted.

[Wisdom]

@Desp
If you think you can read someone just by reading one (1) scumgame of theirs, we will definitely agree to disagree.

Do you have contradictory meta or something? His disposition is completely different this game.

You can't judge based on one game. Read 5-10 scumgames of his, tell me that his play does not look like his scumgame because it lacks x common feature that's present in 90% of his scumgames, then I'll listen to you.

[Wisdom]

k I misread what you said about tne. But regarding slimer, that's bullshit. He's easy to read if you know how to read him.

[Wisdom]

Game
Other than this I've played two games with scum-slimer. One was my second game where I was still inexperienced and fell for his newbie-card, and the other he replaced out but I had kind of pegged him already.

[Wisdom]

You can't effectively meta someone you haven't played with, don't waste your time.

[Wisdom]

I disagree. The only thing that happens if you try to meta someone you don't know is read everything the way you want and get biased impressions. Only by actually playing with the person and actually trying to read them (or figure how to deal with them, if scum) you learn how the person is playing/thinking. Only then you can use that knowledge to read them in the future.

[Wisdom]

2 weeks? If it's that long, he should be replaced.

[Wisdom]

Well if he's going to continue posting like he has till now, he should replace out.

[Wisdom]

(yes even though i unvoted) (wanted to think on it a bit)

Not liking this. It indicates that Mantis is thinking of what people will respond to her post and she's trying to cover these possible replies already. Meaning that she cares about how her post appears to others, which is a scumtell.

[Wisdom]

How has Arc been obvious town?

[Wisdom]

I townread her but I don't think she was

obvious

town.

[Wisdom]

Well the fact you townread her does not mean everyone is going to townread her. I don't see what the issue with an unsure read is.

[Wisdom]

slimer is a convenient D1 mislynch to push, isn't he?

[Wisdom]

How would you feel about a havingfitz lynch?

[Wisdom]

I've already talked about that, Mara.

[Wisdom]

slimer is a convenient D1 mislynch to push, isn't he?

This is a loaded question.

Nope, this was me stating that I think slimer is being pushed because he's a convenient easy mislynch.

[Wisdom]

With time coming up short it's probably the closest we can get to a lynch, but it really is too easy to turn up a mislynch.

No, it isn't. thenewearth had more votes than slimer (now equal with your vote).

[Wisdom]

So how do you feel about a tne vote?

[Wisdom]

Because you're currently looking like an easy mislynch to push and I don't tolerate those.

[Wisdom]

Do you have any other scumreads?

[Wisdom]

I don't have any strong scumreads, but we have like 3 days left and the only lynches I feel good about are thenewearth or havingfitz.

[Wisdom]

What do you think about these two?

[Wisdom]

what's townie about havingfitz, slimer?

[Wisdom]

You didn't lurk as scum in any of the games I've played with you, nope.

pedit:
You mean scum just post things that don't make any sense?

[Wisdom]

Let's do tne today, and we hear from havingfitz/a replacement tomorrow.

[Wisdom]

My point is you're calling fitz town for making sense.
Scum can make sense too.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: macmollie

[Wisdom]

no, you sheep me.

[Wisdom]

Why is serra scum, mollie?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

tne looks better with his last posts and mollie's response to my vote also looks town.

VOTE: havingfitz

[Wisdom]

Not voting Desp.

[Wisdom]

serra might actually be scum. His insistence on the slimer lynch looks fake to me.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: serra

Yeah, this is what we're doing.

[Wisdom]

insistence on the slimer lynch

UNVOTE:

k

I mean your whole deal in 529 seems forced, I don't buy you can be that annoyed by slimer.

[Wisdom]

Fake.

[Wisdom]

Vote serra, people.

[Wisdom]

serra is scummy on his own, it has nothing to do with his slot.
Yes, his push on slimer feels forced. I've played enough with him and I don't think he's the type to get so annoyed about a lurker to the point of not only wanting to policy but go "ok when slimer wins ill blacklist you all".
I could lynch havingfitz too but I don't say no to let him return from his V/LA and post some more first.

So, serra.

[Wisdom]

Bert, vote serra already.

[Wisdom]

I've gotten used to you, you'll eventually vote serra anyway.

[Wisdom]

What is horrible about that Mantis post?

[Wisdom]

It's bullshit as in it's a bad point, or is it scummy?

[Wisdom]

you guys

how did you go from "serra" to "you guys"? Do you see anyone else whining about your posting?

[Wisdom]

If you don't want a no-lynch to happen, vote serra. wtf are you voting Mantis for?

[Wisdom]

Here.

Mantis is town.

[Wisdom]

Vote serra, people.

[Wisdom]

As to why I'm being voted: slimer thinks I've been misrepping his meta to score an easy lynch, Wisdom thinks my annoyance at slimer is fake because I couldn't possibly be that annoyed at lurkers, and desp thinks???

"guys im being voted for the wrong reasons, please dont lynch me"

^scum

[Wisdom]

^all three of them are town

[Wisdom]

i think desperado and slimer are town. wisdom, what makes you so sure mollie is?

Not feeling like scum-mollie

[Wisdom]

5 people not voting 2 hours before the deadline.

...okay.

[Wisdom]

It's just a feeling. I think she actually tries to figure people out, like when she was saying that Mara did similar things in another game.

serra, what is that neighbour question about?

[Wisdom]

Tell me why you think there's a town/town neighbour hood.

I don't know the setup, so I cannot answer that.

[Wisdom]

I don't think there's time for alternatives.

[Wisdom]

We're not lynching mollie.

[Wisdom]

The only person I'd lynch over serra right now is havingfitz. Or maybe Natirasha. But there's no time for either wagon to happen.

[Wisdom]

Worst neighbors ever btw

huh?

[Wisdom]

yay its no-lynch time

[Wisdom]

No.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: natirasha

[Wisdom]

seriously serra?

Vote Natirasha ffs

[Wisdom]

meh
I thought for a moment that you might be town, but it's gone. You want us to no-lynch apparently.

[Wisdom]

"hey guys I'll vote myself to prevent a no-lynch"

>votes Desp instead of Natirasha

[Wisdom]

And you've been any better?

Excuse me? Do you see me voting a wagon without any hope?

[Wisdom]

Nope. serra and you are the only viable wagons and those two are the ones I've been on.

[Wisdom]

Mantis is not getting lynched, not today, not ever.

[Wisdom]

^lol

[Wisdom]

serra, at least vote Natirasha. Bert will probably be around to L-1 and then we only need a hammer. Better than doing nothing and accepting that our fate is no-lynch.

[Wisdom]

Mantis is not getting lynched, not today, not ever.

How can you possibly be so sure?

I know how to read her and there is negative chance this is scum-Mantis.

[Wisdom]

We don't have fucking time for fitz

[Wisdom]

wow Mantis you're contributing to the no-lynch, good going.

WHAT FUCKING PART OF THERES NO TIME FOR FITZ DO YOU ALL NOT GET

[Wisdom]

Bert vote Nat now

[Wisdom]

you're not getting my vote on this scum-made wagon.

[Wisdom]

who the fuck cares who proposed it? i also proposed it ages ago but I didnt actually make it.

[Wisdom]

you're not getting my vote on this scum-made wagon.

vote fitz!!!!!!!

you're less stupid than this.

[Wisdom]

Yes I'm not voting him after serra and Nat escaped their lynch the way the did. Lynch him without me.

[Wisdom]

the problem is that this wagon was made by serra and Nat so they can avoid their lynches.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Natirasha

Listen guys. We were fucking LUCKY that havingfitz flipped SK, but that does not change what happened. Read what happened at the end of the day. Natirasha is scum. And most likely so is serra. That wagon was created by scum, it can't be more obvious than what it already is.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Wisdom
yep yep

Was this Mara or Om?

[Wisdom]

Mara, Mantis is neighbour with me, not Nats.

[Wisdom]

Mara what's your read on me (yours, not Om's)?

[Wisdom]

Why am I leaning town today?

[Wisdom]

I believe if they're neighbors, then one of them is probably town and the other isn't. In another way, I think Wisdom is scum therefore Mantis is more likely town.

Look at the scum trying to make forced conclusions without any basis. We're both town, I know you don't like it, but that's how it is.

[Wisdom]

Natirasha and Tater do not have the same alignment btw. Tater(Om) tried to line me up yesterday, with Natirasha confirming he will help, and Natirasha enforced it today, with Tater(Om) sheeping. I don't see two scumbuddies doing this - it's only one of them.

[Wisdom]

Natirasha and Tater do not have the same alignment btw.

Correction: They're not both scum.

[Wisdom]

Mara you're not answering to me.

Why am I leaning town today?

[Wisdom]

This was despite the fact his neighbor was the first person on the wagon, he had expressed his doubts on havingfitz before, and we were facing down a fucking deadline lynch.

The first people on the wagon were you and serra. Mantis had just expressed her wish for such a wagon, just like I had done before Mantis.

[Wisdom]

Anyone who townreads serra - fucking explain to me this.

serra states that he's willing to self-hammer over a no-lynch:

No lynching at an odd number with likely 1 NK is just really bad. I'm just a VT (Javier Esposito), so I'll be sure to self-hammer if you guys can't get the votes together, and get back to playing more f2f instead.

That means he's willing to lynch someone who he knows town, the only one who he knows town, over a no-lynch. Good so far.

Then he refuses to vote Natirasha for a deadline lynch, which he supposedly does NOT know town. He tries to form wagons on anyone else, but when people vote Natirasha he goes "OMG NO DONT VOTE FOR NATIRASHA, ITS NO USE" and votes someone else instead. And then he and Natirasha form a wagon on havingfitz.

Tell me why the fuck would town-serra refuse to vote someone whose alignment he doesn't know when previously he was willing to vote himself in order to avoid the no-lynch. Go and read what happened and tell me why the fuck he would do it. See how he was talking about potentional mollie or Desp wagons, yet refused to vote Natirasha when Natirasha already had 4 votes on him. And then had no problem voting havingfitz either. Fucking explain how serra is town doing this.

[Wisdom]

Euughh..

Nats is town, I'm pretty sure, and I don't think anyone should touch him

VOTE: Wisdom

Explain how he is town. Explain how I am scum for touching him.

[Wisdom]

I don't know, I just have a feeling with your opening today

that was my answer for you wisdom

That's bullshit. If you argued you townread me because of what happened in twilight I'd believe you, but this is total bullshit coming from you.

Goddamnit, if Mara is scum it prolly means Nat isn't.

[Wisdom]

Explain how I am scum for touching him.

That isn't why you're scum

Then? Didn't you just call me leaning town?

[Wisdom]

To add on to this Wisdom isn't even answering what he can't explain that Nat has brought up and had instead chosen to refute it on the basis that Nat is scum.
Examples include: 'Look at the scum trying to make forced conclusions without any basis. We're both town, I know you don't like it, but that's how it is.' where he dismissed it as scum trying to make him look bad instead of exploring other options or convincing Nat otherwise.

Explore what other options? The only other option is Nat being retarded town who refuses to accept the possibility of neighbours being both town. But no, you don't care that Natirasha refuses to explore that option and dismisses it, you only care when I do it. Right?

[Wisdom]

Setting up lynches yep yep.

Pretty sure I explained why you're not both scum.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tater

Thanks Mara for making this easier. This is not town-you. You would have figured I'm town and convinced Om, not the other way around.

[Wisdom]

Whoever of you two is town (because again, I doubt both of you are scum teaming up on me), you're stupid for thinking I am scum for this. I will not fucking ever join a wagon I suspect scum are pushing, I don't fucking care if it's twilight or the end of the world.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tater

Thanks Mara for making this easier. This is not town-you. You would have figured I'm town and convinced Om, not the other way around.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

meta based arguments are so last year.
Nice to know we're scum because I'm so persuasive

~Om

Meta has helped me catch scum countless times, I'm sorry if you don't like it.

[Wisdom]

The Guy who prides himself of being un-metable is expecting me to be able to read through his town-game?

This is funny

Yes. Last few games you proved you can.

[Wisdom]

Being dismissive again here yep yep.
Of course someone is retarded for having a different opinion to you. You sound so silly right now, I just thought I should let you know

~Om

You just dodged the accusation, huh?
Explain why you don't care about Natirasha dismissing a possiblity of town/town neighbourhood, but you do care about me dismissing the possibility of him being town doing so?

[Wisdom]

Masons know they're both town, neighbours have to figure that out. Full-town neighborhoods are used commonly, this game is an example. I was town neighbour with TWO other townies (and kept thinking there's scum in them)

[Wisdom]

It's perfectly reasonable that Nat thinks that the neighbourhood has one scum in it and one town, what says it can't?

Why does he dismiss the possibility of town/town?
He goes and states that "there's probably one town and one scum, Wisdom is probably the scum, so let's get him" - how is that not ill-intended? Why should I not think that it's one more step to push my mislynch?

[Wisdom]

If you are town and read the post, you will care about the point he's making, that the neighbourhood is town/scum. You won't care about the "probably". So yeah, he was speaking in absolutes, only doing it in a way better for people to find the point good. If you go and blatantly post "The neighbourhood is town/scum, Wisdom is scum, period", people are not likely to agree with you as much.

[Wisdom]

i don't think wisdom is scum..

btw what's this weak little voice here, Mantis? You seemed much more confident I am town in the QT, what happened now?

[Wisdom]

Btw I'm still waiting for answers to 932.

[Wisdom]

I'm talking about how town will perceive his post. They won't care about the "probably", so the "probably" is irrelevant.
The point remains, why the fuck should I not think he's pushing my mislynch?
I really don't think both of you are town lining this lynch up on me since yesterday for really crap reasons, so I know that one of you is scum and the other just retarded. Knowing this, why the fuck wouldn't I be suspicious of Natirasha trying to push such a bullshit point?
But do you even try to see this from my persepective? You don't, because you're scum.

[Wisdom]

hey wisdom

what happened the at the end of the day there? where you attacked someone for "contributing to a no lynch" and then went and contributed to a no lynch yourself? that was strange.

anyway I need to read some more

Go read. Also read 932.

[Wisdom]

mac, what do you make of the push on me? Is the scum tater or Natirasha?

[Wisdom]

It's not that you're arguing through my perspective, it's that you refuse to consider it.
And when I say that he's pushing my mislynch, I mean purposefully, with ill intent.


Pedit: Because I can't fucking see them both being town lining up a lynch on me. One of them is scum buddying the other.

[Wisdom]

slimer is probably town

[Wisdom]

Read the fucking game, Mac, this is not what I did.

also slimer plays kinda the same as both town or scum (though there are differences), so judging by one scumgame won't help you. Some of his posts however, especially his rebuttals to accusations on him, show a town mindset.

[Wisdom]

Your perspective right now is that two people are pushing my lynch and I'm town and they're using really shit reasons so one of the has to be scum.
And you're wondering why I'm not considering your perspective right now

So I should be thinking you're both town? Wanting to lynch me because I got paranoid a wagon pushed by scum formed? You seriously expect me not to think that this bullshit reason is being sheeped by scum?

[Wisdom]

there's scum in {serra/wis} im sure of it.

Want to explain that to me?

[Wisdom]

you misinterpreted. i was saying simply i dont think you are scum. no weak voice

You were saying it.. You weren't confident though. Can you confidently say I am town?

[Wisdom]

macmollie is town, Mantis.
As I told you, you might be right about penguin, but can you let her aside and focus on what's happening here?
Do you think serra is town despite what I said? Do you think both tater and Natirasha are town despite their lining up my lynch yesterday and pushing it today?

[Wisdom]

why dont you tell me what happened from your perspective and we'll see if our versions match up.

-Mantis wagon, serra and Natirasha both on it. Does not get a lynch.
-serra wagon. Looks like he will be the lynch.
-Natirasha does not wish to vote serra.
-serra has stated he will self-hammer if needed, to avoid a no-lynch.
-792: Mantis starts a wagon on Natirasha. serra objects to it right away in 796. Tater joins the Natirasha wagon in the next post.
-Tater also tells serra to vote Natirasha.
-serra states he does not want to vote Natirasha (803) - Natirasha at 2 votes at this point.
-I vote Natirasha.
-Tater tells serra that he should vote someone instead of not voting.
-Lynx votes Natirasha (Natirasha at 4 votes, biggest wagon since Serra and Mantis are at 3 votes at this point)
-serra takes Tater's advice and votes... Desp. This looks like a joke given Desp has zero votes however..
-Natirasha immediately also votes Desp!
-I wtf and tell serra to vote Natirasha - wasn't he the one who was worried about the no-lynch? Why is he not voting the biggest wagon?
-He refuses, again!
-I state that I'm starting to scumread him there and explain why (813)
-Natirasha attacks me right away and says that I have not been any better (wtf?)
-serra says his Desp vote was a joke, because we don't have a majority anyway so he has given up (bullshit, why does he not vote Natirasha and bring him to 5 votes? It would be better than doing nothing - and we're talking about serra, serra who wanted to self-hammer to prevent a no-lynch.)
-Mantis proposes a Fitz wagon. Fitz is at zero votes and the idea sounds crazy - we can't even get Natirasha lynched, who has 4 votes on him, and we'll get fitz with zero?
-Natirasha has no such problems though (I mean he even voted Desp ignoring serra was joking). He votes fitz and starts the wagon.
-I ignore the whole thing because it's ridiculous and once again tell serra to vote Natirasha (829)
-What does serra do? Uses the newfound wagon that Natirasha just began and votes there.
-I'm starting to get mad and state that we don't have time for fitz - fitz is at 2 votes, Natirasha still at 4 (834)
-serra responds to that by telling me that I also voted for a new wagon (Natirasha) - but is there any comparison? People were looking like they didn't want to lynch serra, the wagon was stalling for so much time, so we had to try something different. This was not the case with the Natirasha wagon, serra was the only one refusing to vote him, and we just needed two people to come online and hammer him after serra would vote him. These were my thoughts after reading 837 - serra even dares to Caps Lock me as if he's saying something obvious.
-Natirasha instantly comes to his support, saying essentially the same thing.
-Mantis votes Fitz, ignoring this whole thing - I don't blame her though, the wagon was her idea, however crazy at the time, and she saw two votes on it.
-848 is the beginning of my outrage, further fueled by seeing Mantis oblivious to what's happening.
-Bert comes in and also says that I went for Nat, why am I not going for fitz? Which is a normal thought to a townie coming in and seeing this, without experiencing what serra and Natirasha had been doing. I tell him to vote Natirasha.
-Lynx comes and votes Fitz, normal for town just as Bert above. Besides Fitz is at 4 votes now, closest to lynch. Any townie who wants a lynch would vote him at his point.
-Bert votes Fitz, apparently ensuring himself that what I'm saying does not make much sense. As I said above, not blaming him. Fitz at 5 votes, need 2 more.
-Tater votes Fitz, but states that had Fitz as leaning town so not really happy with the lynch.
-I am stating that I am not going to vote Fitz. I have gotten so angry at this point that this shenanigan by serra and Natirasha worked and fitz is actually getting lynched, that I do not even remotely care about whether I scumread fitz or not. This was scum attempting something to save their asses and succeeding to me, and I was deadset that I would not be helping them. (885)
-People react to this differently - Mantis tries to convince me to vote him because she thinks I'm acting stubborn for no reason; Natirasha and serra both laugh at me (of course), tater calls me scum, Bert just tries to get penguin to hammer because he knows how stubborn I can be. Mantis is also weirded out by the fact I was scumreading Fitz yet I refuse to hammer him, and I don't blame her - at that point though I was enraged by how she was oblivious to what was happening and told her that she cannot be this stupid (876)
-Tater insists that I am scum and lines up a lynch on me (877). Natirasha agrees.
-I restate that I am not going to vote Fitz after what serra and Natirasha did. I know penguin is around and that the lynch will happen anyway, we're not in danger of a no-lynch. But I still refuse to participate in helping scum achieve this lynch (881). Mantis and Bert insist that I am being stubborn and try to convince me, but I insist in 886.
-penguin hammers.

-In a stroke of luck, fitz actually flips SK. Come to think of it, it's not that strange since he did look like scum, and I was right in scumreading him, but it changes nothing - serra and Natirasha pushed this lynch after refusing to vote each other. They didn't know they're lynching an SK, but they knew they're not lynching each other.

Summary of what I did, once again? I refused to help them achieve this thing. I got paranoid this is what's happening the moment serra refused to vote Natirasha and tried to vote others with no votes on them instead, despite claiming he would self-hammer earlier. And then by how they both voted Fitz once a townie - Mantis - voiced intent for such a lynch. I fucking understand nobody is in my mind and nobody was probably expected to understand where I was coming from, especially with the pressure of the deadline. But I will not fucking accept people scumreading me and pushing my lynch because of it

today

.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: natirasha

[Wisdom]

i keep firm with what i said... why on earth would any scum (serra) offer to be lynched up??? doesn't matter about serra not wanting to vote Nat. the main thing is.. it's just to risky for a scum to offer to self vote. that's all there is to it.

Why did I offer to lynch you in Less Pressure, Mantis? Why? Do you know what WIFOM is?

[Wisdom]

And Mac I still wanna hear how you reached the conclusion that either me or serra is scum.

[Wisdom]

And now that I reread the end of yesterday I think that Om's "let's lynch Wisdom tomorrow" is somewhat justified given he was already scumreading me before anything of those happened. My weird/paranoid behavior probably just ensured him he's right in his scumread and so he stated that. Natirasha is the one that agreed with it without any prior signs of a scumread on me IIRC, and he's also the one trying to enforce it today. He is the scum between them.

Mara's attitude DOES bug me though, but I am willing to accept she might just be apathetic (I've seen her being apathetic in her hydra games before) so she just sheeps Om's false read. Because otherwise, I am pretty fucking sure that Mara would be able to tell I am town if she cared enough.

[Wisdom]

We don't care about the nightkill. Vote Natirasha with me.

[Wisdom]

question to both neighbors; what is wisdom's character name and what is the scenario provided as to why you are neighbors in the first place.

Alexis Castle.
It is not stated why we are neighbours. I guess it might make sense with the flavor but I have no clue about Castle so I don't know.

[Wisdom]

It is stated I am Castle's only daughter (I assume by now that Castle = Richard Castle?). It's not stated that Mantis is Richard Castle though.

[Wisdom]

I can't even recognise your "town" game anymore cos you have gotten so bad.

Btw I agree with this. I am having trouble reading Mantis when her townplay is weak, and it made me paranoid about her for a while in Micro 204 (as well as in Duck Duck Goose, as you know), and the first thing I told her when I learned we're neighbours is to not hide the fact she's town behind weak play - if she plays normally, I'll catch that she is town. This is why I got paranoid for a while that she was trying to appeal to me during D1. But really, I don't think there's any chance she's scum. She's trying, she gets paranoid about people, especially you, and this whole "scum can't possibly do this" that she's doing with serra is also something that she does as town. I really don't believe that she's that good at emulating her townself. It's just as you say, her play gets weak sometimes and makes people who know her wonder if they're right about her.

Trust me, she's town.

[Wisdom]

serra and Natirasha. Read what I posted please, I explained in detail what happened at the end of D1. (1017)

[Wisdom]

Because I prefer Natirasha and I am confident there is scum in those who lined up my lynch and continued to push it today (Natirasha and Tater). serra did not do that, at least yet.
If we settle for serra, I'll vote serra, but Natirasha is better.

[Wisdom]

The Guy who prides himself of being un-metable is expecting me to be able to read through his town-game?

This is funny

Yes. Last few games you proved you can.

Sigh.
Because I cannot see them both being town doing this.
Please, go read. I have said these things one million times.

[Wisdom]

lol wrong quote. It was meant to answer to 1035.

[Wisdom]

Which I answered.

[Wisdom]

Because I see it like this:
-Tater (Om), already scumreading me, finds my paranoia about the fitz wagon weird, and given he doesn't know me, he thinks he was right in his read. So he confidently states that I'm getting lynched the next day.
-Natirasha, with no prior suspicion of me, agrees with Om.
-The next day Natirasha comes and actually enforced that, voting me and asking Om and others to vote me too.
-Om votes me.

So the two of them planned a lynch on me, and actually tried to enforce it. I don't see them as scum together in any case, there's no way they would do that. I see them as one scum buddying the other, and given how things happened, that scum is Natirasha, grabbing Om's declaration and trying to make it happen today. I suppose both town is not completely ruled out, but I really doubt it.

In any case, I don't care about this as I care about what happened at the deadline with serra and Natirasha. They are both fucking scum. The above thing just makes me even more sure about Natirasha, but the main thing is the serra thing.

[Wisdom]

Natirasha, you townread serra, yes?
Answer 932.

[Wisdom]

...
Seriously, mollie? Did you miss the fact I was scumreading him?

[Wisdom]

The only person I'd lynch over serra right now is havingfitz. Or maybe Natirasha. But there's no time for either wagon to happen.

Look at this. I wanted to lynch havingfitz over serra, before anything happened. Under other circumstances a havingfitz lynch would be my ideal ending of the day. But not after what Natirasha and serra did. It screamed scum pushing a wagon to save their asses.

[Wisdom]

What don't you understand mollie?
Explain to me how they are both town.

[Wisdom]

Mantis only brought it up, Natirasha began it. You obviously have not read anything.

[Wisdom]

No, the full line is

Natirasha refuses to vote serra - serra wagon stalls
serra refuses to vote Natirasha - Natirasha wagon stalls
serra votes Desp, Natirasha votes Desp
Mantis brings up havingfitz idea
Natirasha votes havingfitz, serra votes havingfitz.

Context is important.

[Wisdom]

Goddamnit mollie.

Natirasha and TATER lined up the lynch YESTERDAY, and voted me TODAY. Why the fuck would scum select someone juicier when TATER, who probably is town, set me up already?

And yes, in order to save Natirasha, they would vote back to back. Or explain to my why the fuck serra refused to vote Natirasha after wanting to SELF-HAMMER in order to prevent a no-lynch.

[Wisdom]

Mantis only brought it up, Natirasha began it. You obviously have not read anything.

wtf, mantis

started

the wagon you dummy

Can you fucking concentrate on the point? Mantis has nothing to do with all this.

[Wisdom]

mollie can you do me a favor and go and read the end of the day, along with my 1017 in another tab? Because this is ridiculous, I have explained everything and you still act like I never did.

[Wisdom]

So in your world, Natirasha and Tater are both town who decided yesterday to lynch me today, and indeed started a wagon on me today.
Also in your world, Natirasha and serra refusing to vote each other, trying to lynch Mantis, then starting a wagon on Desperado that went nowhere, then starting a wagon on fitz after they saw there's support by Mantis, all in order not to get lynched, means that they are both town.
Let me guess, serra refusing to vote the biggest wagon that had 4 votes and prefering to no-lynch instead, after having stated that he will self-hammer in order to prevent a no-lynch, also means he's town.
And let's not forget, Mantis' play being weak sometimes means she's scum.

Did I get it right?

Goddamnit mollie.

[Wisdom]

Yeah of course I am town now, Natirasha. When you fail in trying to get someone mislynched, try to buddy him instead.
No.

[Wisdom]

so in your world nats and tater seekritly plotted to get you lynched on d2 despite nobody really supporting it on d1 and 1 of them is town. nats and sera then decide to buddy each other and not vote each other and both dive onto a wagon whom neither know whether fitz would flip sk or not.

and sera's wanting to lynch himself 6 hours before the lynch happened means he had a pre-cog as to when that would happen and time it perfectly so that he would not get lynched but oh yeah he was saving his buddy nats and they conspired together to...avoid lynching each other and get you lynched on d2.

it makes sense if I was wearing a tinfoil hat.

VOTE: wisdom

Explain to me how the fuck they are town goddamnit. Explain to me where I am wrong. You just refuse to see the obvious.

[Wisdom]

so in your world nats and tater seekritly plotted to get you lynched on d2 despite nobody really supporting it on d1 and 1 of them is town.

The fact that they plotted my lynch is not something I made up. Tater said "Wisdom lynch tomorrow, all in favor?", and Natirasha said "Aye.". All that yesterday. What is so strange about it that you cannot understand it? Someone town (Tater) states he scumreads another town (me) and scum (Natirasha) immediately sheeps it. Then in the next day, Natirasha begins the wagon on me as planned and asks Tater and everyone else to support it. What the fuck don't you understand here?

nats and sera then decide to buddy each other and not vote each other and both dive onto a wagon whom neither know whether fitz would flip sk or not.

What does it matter what fitz would flip? They knew they are not in their faction, and all they cared about was not lynch someone from their faction. They successfully let the wagons on serra and Natirasha stall by respectively refusing to join them and created whatever other wagon they could make - first Mantis, then Desperado, then havingfitz, immediately after they saw there's support from Mantis. They would lynch anyone in order not to lynch themselves. What the fuck don't you understand?

and sera's wanting to lynch himself 6 hours before the lynch happened means he had a pre-cog as to when that would happen and time it perfectly so that he would not get lynched

serra stated he wants to lynch himself to prevent a no-lynch. That means that if he's town, he wanted to lynch town over no-lynching. Yet he refused to lynch Natirasha over no-lynching. When he supposedly does not know Natirasha's alignment. Explain to me how the fuck this makes sense.

[Wisdom]

what bugs me is you saying that tater is town and nats must be teh scum. not to mention "as planned" like omg are you for realz with this shit.

I explain why tater is the town. Hope you read it.
And wtf are you talking about? Are you blind? Don't you see they talked about lynching me yesterday? And then they did enforce it today?

well that was my point about fitz but you don't seem to want to put mantis under the same scrutiny so

when she has slipped harder.

What the hell are you talking about, how is Mantis even remotely related to any of this? And how has she "slipped"?

lol.

What lol? Explain. How the fuck does it make sense for serra to be town and do that?

[Wisdom]

3. I would rather see myself lynched then have a no lynch go through. at least town would have useful info in the way of my reads.

That's not what I asked. Why didn't he vote Natirasha? Natirasha was the biggest wagon. He was willing to self-lynch to prevent a no-lynch, but he was not willing to lynch Natirasha to prevent a no-lynch. That's what I want explained.

[Wisdom]

1. yeah I did not follow. I think om looks scummy as shit and when does mara give in to another's read. she only does it rarely.

I can see her being apathetic and just sheeping Om's read. Natirasha would have to be town for them to be scum and I just don't see it.

2. mantis was the key point of my discussion mebbe you missed it

Mantis has nothing to do with anything we're discussing here.

[Wisdom]

3. I would rather see myself lynched then have a no lynch go through. at least town would have useful info in the way of my reads.

That's not what I asked. Why didn't he vote Natirasha? Natirasha was the biggest wagon. He was willing to self-lynch to prevent a no-lynch, but he was not willing to lynch Natirasha to prevent a no-lynch. That's what I want explained.

martyr syndrome

Now you're just ignoring something that is obvious on purpose, and the only thing you achieve is making me mad.

[Wisdom]

You mean his calling Bert scum because he voted Desp?

[Wisdom]

Bert and you, actually

[Wisdom]

Not seeing how that ties them. I could see it as scum-tne WKing Desp though.

[Wisdom]

At this point I see Natirasha/serra/{tne/penguin}, with a possibility of Tater replacing Natirasha but I really doubt it. Everyone else (Mantis, macmollie, Bert, slimer, Desp) is town.