Mini 1463 (it has shitty jokes) over

[Om of the Nom]

so NTP is scum
he's been way too quick to jump on things during RVS
the hydra dissonance looks faked, it's like they aren't even communicating together at all and instead they're blaming each other for their shortcomings.
he's excusing his wagon jumping for "sparking discussion", which just looks like a throwaway excuse made up right before he posted it. also he's taking credit for 'getting us out of rvs' where no credit is due.
also him calling RC out for 'OMGUS' just looks really shitty, especially when he's not really explained why it was a bad thing.
after RVS he overplayed his neutral attitude to the wagon being on him, looks faked
VOTE: NTP

[Om of the Nom]

also, i don't like jumping to someone before RVS really ends, especially early, since wagons jump out pretty fast (notthepope is at L-2 right now, so a vote by me would have put him at L-1 before i got back to the computer!) and i want to see reactions to my initial points that were made. looking at how people have jumped on notthepope so fast and how empty some of the posts have been as far as reasoning goes, i feel as though there are definitely scum motions behind this wagon and i'm not sure if i'm willing to back it

just

yet, although i have not ruled out an impromptu d1 bus for sure.

buddy alert! buddy alert!

[Om of the Nom]

also, i don't like jumping to someone before RVS really ends, especially early, since wagons jump out pretty fast (notthepope is at L-2 right now, so a vote by me would have put him at L-1 before i got back to the computer!) and i want to see reactions to my initial points that were made. looking at how people have jumped on notthepope so fast and how empty some of the posts have been as far as reasoning goes, i feel as though there are definitely scum motions behind this wagon and i'm not sure if i'm willing to back it

just

yet, although i have not ruled out an impromptu d1 bus for sure.

buddy alert! buddy alert!

how is this buddying? i am explaining why i didn't seriously vote someone early in the game. not seriously voting someone during RVS is hardly a buddy tell

you're not buddying, you're distancing while at the same time keeping the option open.
aka you're buddies, scumbuddies

[Om of the Nom]

also, i don't like jumping to someone before RVS really ends, especially early, since wagons jump out pretty fast (notthepope is at L-2 right now, so a vote by me would have put him at L-1 before i got back to the computer!) and i want to see reactions to my initial points that were made. looking at how people have jumped on notthepope so fast and how empty some of the posts have been as far as reasoning goes, i feel as though there are definitely scum motions behind this wagon and i'm not sure if i'm willing to back it

just

yet, although i have not ruled out an impromptu d1 bus for sure.

buddy alert! buddy alert!

how is this buddying? i am explaining why i didn't seriously vote someone early in the game. not seriously voting someone during RVS is hardly a buddy tell

you're not buddying, you're distancing while at the same time keeping the option open.
aka you're buddies, scumbuddies

oh, ok. much more reasonable analysis. what do you think of bub bidderskins?

Bub's town, but he's misguided in his NTP town read :/

That's an eiree accusation Om
But whatever
Notsciense speaks fluently
I speak in lines
Makes everything easier
However I will sign my posts
-TIP

That doesn't address anything I brought up against you.

[Om of the Nom]

He just feels like he's focused on finding scum and progressing the game forward. Also he's very direct, even though admittedly that's more of a personality trait if anything.

[Om of the Nom]

My apologies but I have had to skim on the phone. Will catch up on it all when I have more time.

But still no response to my question, what's all the stuff in brackets on notthepope's name?

notthepope is a hydra so there are 2 different people sharing 1 account to play this game

And this is fair in mafia how?

How do you read a player displaying two separate metas?

Are you going to actually do anything or are you just going to keep hounding on NTP being a hydra?

[Om of the Nom]

so NTP is scum
he's been way too quick to jump on things during RVS

Jumping on things when they're done is a great way to find info, rather than let them fester and slip through.

the hydra dissonance looks faked, it's like they aren't even communicating together at all and instead they're blaming each other for their shortcomings.

Lmfao, the game just started and it's a new hydra acc. We're communicating just fine.

he's excusing his wagon jumping for "sparking discussion", which just looks like a throwaway excuse made up right before he posted it. also he's taking credit for 'getting us out of rvs' where no credit is due.

Then who gets credit for that?

also him calling RC out for 'OMGUS' just looks really shitty, especially when he's not really explained why it was a bad thing.

OMGUS- http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... d_You_Suck

after RVS he overplayed his neutral attitude to the wagon being on him, looks faked

Oh, I'm bugged by the wagon on me, but you basically spent this entire post saying how any and everything we do is faked. Good to know. Nice OMGUS there, but you're going to ask why it's scummy! Oh, it's in fact scummy because you're attempting to discredit someone who is voting your slot for an opportunistic vote.

VOTE: NTP

~ns~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``

Sure that's fine but not when paired with some vote hops. There was no conviction in anything, and it just looked like you were trying to find something you could stick with.
I really doubt that.
Nobody should get credit for it, we all came out of RVS together, anybody trying to claim they did it solo is just fishing for towncred.
OMGUS is a pretty shit scumtell and posting that link does nothing to further your agenda.
So I'm OMGUSing you because you voted my slot's previous owner and I think you're scum? I hope you realise I'm a separate entity to him. Yeah, sure, we share the same alignment. But we have entirely different thinking patterns and reasons for voting. I'd rather you listen to me only, because I have experience.

I'd like to know why my vote on you is scummy if you get rid of the fact that I'm a replacement. I did not take King's actions into account (I haven't even really read any of his posts tbh) before making my posts, so I don't see why you should do that with your arguments either.

trust your scumhunting ... if you are town. However I don't think that is the case here.

vote:levio

someone is way to concerned with trying to go with the flow.

nope, levio is newbtown. the way he said it looked like he didn't think people would listen to him, which still shows genuine interest in finding scum, only he's being self-defeating when it comes to getting them lynched. Scum (especially newbscum), would just be going with the flow and not really making an effort to stand out or try to go against the grain and wouldn't really make it known either.

[Om of the Nom]

i disagree with the people above me levio just told us they were voting the largest wagon over their scumread because ntp hasnt omgused absta

imo this is an attempt to look town because levio expects ntp to flip town and they dont want to look like they pushed a mislynch

VOTE: levio

If you actually read his post levio says that he thinks absta is scum because of his pushes on NTP and that more specifically, it doesn't look like absta is scum hunting.
But regardless that's terrible logic anyway because the largest wagon right now is NTP and if levio doesn't want to look like he pushed a mislynch and he's voting someone he expects to flip town he wouldn't be on the wagon in the first place.
I'd like to know what your read on levio would be if there was a NTP scumflip though, because you're basing the read on NTP flipping town.

[Om of the Nom]

levio being newbtown means she's more likely to be untrusting of her own judgement, therefore she's more likely to follow others instead of her own reads.

[Om of the Nom]

DCL because of her bs interpretation of levio. Levio is town, I got that feeling when she first voted me. This new post she made screams newbtown just like Om said.

Om became a town read for having the same views as me on levio in response to what DCL said.

Right direction, but wrong ideas. DCL shouldn't be scum because he interpreted a post differently to you. I shouldn't be town because I interpreted it the same way. However I'm not opposed to the idea of DCL being scum, but really right now I'm just getting bad gut reads, nothing solid.

[Om of the Nom]

2)Om, I'm not about to read your slot as "just what you've posted" I don't care if you're two seperate entities or not, you have the same role and alignment so EVERYTHING the slot says should be taken into account for, and I find it scummy you ask me not to read what be did when trying to find your alignment, as well as the fact you "haven't read" what he posted. If you were catching up, wouldnt town want all the context available even about their own slotT?

I don't care about you judging my alignment based on my previous owner. Yeah, that's completely fine (and encouraged). But if you're going to make arguments on things I've said myself, then I'd rather you use my actions only.
Context is a non-issue at this early in the game. Nothing major had happened so what's the point in knowing the whole context? I operate just fine without all the information possible, in fact sometimes it even makes me better at finding scum.

[Om of the Nom]

Om nom person and kid A have been my strongest town reads so far. Om cleared bub in such a closed way it set the alarm off, but how overall read is far too experienced to be so blatant in either white knighting or defending a teammate. He is just the right kind of paranoid I like, in the faces of everyone but not pushing anyone into a corner.

So I'm town because I'm experienced? I mean that really doesn't give any solid reasons to think I'm town.

Biggest scum reads so far are for smudger and NTP. I might be being unfair to NTP but I really am hating this idea that two people can play as a single role in mafia. The posts from them so far have been a little too erratic and I have reasons to concern myself early.

Literally everything here you mentioned is a part of being in a hydra, erratic posting especially. I'd like to know what those other reasons are though.

townread on Om of the Nom for the efforts put in to scum hunt

[/unvote][/unvote]

VOTE: DCLXVI

In his post 103 for voting levio because levio is "concerned with going with the flow", when levio is just bad. Hence the reason to vote him looks stretched.

This post reeks of easy reasons and no effort. Not to mention that the DCL vote is basically based on his attack on levio, aka it's a chainsaw defense.

[Om of the Nom]

At this point I'm fine with scumreads on NTP and yesiree. Potential scum lies in Generic, RC.
RC is basically a meta read though, I've seen RC-town twice and he seems more passive than both of those times.

Passing Smudger off right now as newbtown, however it's not unlikely to change. Right now I just get the impression that he's unable to produce much new content because of inexperience yet he still wants to participate.

Don't like how everyone is just suddenly jumping onto DCL for his attack on levio.
Everyone not mentioned is probably town.

@absta: What happened to your Alabaska scumread? All of a sudden you stopped voting him and you haven't mentioned him since. Also what is your read on NTP?

[Om of the Nom]

I operate just fine without all the information possible, in fact sometimes it even makes me better at finding scum.

not quite sure this statement jives with me. what exactly do you mean here? how would ignoring information help you find scum?

also, maybe you can tell me since NTP still hasn't answered me: what is a chainsaw defense?

In the past I've replaced into games without reading up on everything and I've still managed to catch scum or just perform well in general.

A chainsaw defense is when person A defends person C by attacking Person B's attack on Person C. Can be used to find buddies but it's not very reliable in that way. It's not the best of scumtells on it's own but it can be used more reliably in context or with other evidence to back it up.

[Om of the Nom]

In the past I've replaced into games without reading up on everything and I've still managed to catch scum or just perform well in general.

well a pat on the back for you, so how do we know you are town, exactly?

There would be no point in me listing why people should think I'm town because the reasons would be in favor of me regardless of alignment. It's up to you to decide which alignment you think I belong to.

[Om of the Nom]

Om nom person and kid A have been my strongest town reads so far. Om cleared bub in such a closed way it set the alarm off, but how overall read is far too experienced to be so blatant in either white knighting or defending a teammate. He is just the right kind of paranoid I like, in the faces of everyone but not pushing anyone into a corner.

So I'm town because I'm experienced? I mean that really doesn't give any solid reasons to think I'm town.

Biggest scum reads so far are for smudger and NTP. I might be being unfair to NTP but I really am hating this idea that two people can play as a single role in mafia. The posts from them so far have been a little too erratic and I have reasons to concern myself early.

Literally everything here you mentioned is a part of being in a hydra, erratic posting especially. I'd like to know what those other reasons are though.

townread on Om of the Nom for the efforts put in to scum hunt

[/unvote][/unvote]

VOTE: DCLXVI

In his post 103 for voting levio because levio is "concerned with going with the flow", when levio is just bad. Hence the reason to vote him looks stretched.

This post reeks of easy reasons and no effort. Not to mention that the DCL vote is basically based on his attack on levio, aka it's a chainsaw defense.

I never cleared you on experience. I was analysing the stupid insta clear of bub without reasons attached, and an arogant experienced player such as yourself would do that sort if thing and assume that's fine. Or would I be wrong there and you are indeed scum white knighting or getting a teammate town credit?

Why is it a stupid townread on Bub? Why does my playstyle+personality make it a townie thing for me to do? There's no meat to your argument.

[Om of the Nom]

I called the Insta clear stupid because ironically 'there was no meat on the bones'. I gets sting this is what annoys you about my town reason you when you felt it was fine to provide even less yourself.

I never claimed Bub was a strong townread. I don't have much for thinking he's town in the first place but at the same time I don't have anything pointing him to being scum that counters that. You, however, claimed me as one of your strongest townreads and then gave nothing to really indicate why.

[Om of the Nom]

I called the Insta clear stupid because ironically 'there was no meat on the bones'. I gets sting this is what annoys you about my town reason you when you felt it was fine to provide even less yourself.

I never claimed Bub was a strong townread. I don't have much for thinking he's town in the first place but at the same time I don't have anything pointing him to being scum that counters that. You, however, claimed me as one of your strongest townreads and then gave nothing to really indicate why.

Your exact words were "bub is town" I believe. Doesn't get more definitive than that.

I guess I can forgive you on this one for not knowing how I work. When it comes to giving out reads, I always show confidence, and I deal in absolutes quite frequently (only on the outside though, my reads are more complicated that what I actually post). However, you can tell when I'm feeling strongly about someone being town when I call them town repeatedly, or I might start defending them trying to get people not to lynch them.

[Om of the Nom]

You say that like its a fault of the game. It's subjective interpretation, just because you are seeing issues with me the same as another player, doesn't mean everyone reads the game the same way.

Other people have commented on you, but have steered clear of a vote, or further association for that matter.
It's like scum attempting to distance but not vote.

Who is distancing from Generic, in your opinion?

[Om of the Nom]

I called the Insta clear stupid because ironically 'there was no meat on the bones'. I gets sting this is what annoys you about my town reason you when you felt it was fine to provide even less yourself.

I never claimed Bub was a strong townread. I don't have much for thinking he's town in the first place but at the same time I don't have anything pointing him to being scum that counters that. You, however, claimed me as one of your strongest townreads and then gave nothing to really indicate why.

Your exact words were "bub is town" I believe. Doesn't get more definitive than that.

I guess I can forgive you on this one for not knowing how I work. When it comes to giving out reads, I always show confidence, and I deal in absolutes quite frequently (only on the outside though, my reads are more complicated that what I actually post). However, you can tell when I'm feeling strongly about someone being town when I call them town repeatedly, or I might start defending them trying to get people not to lynch them.

New to mafiascum so I'm having to cold read you guys at present, but noted for meta. Can you give me a couple example games where you were town on here that I can check that against ease? And if you have been mafia one or two of them for comparison.

I'm like that in basically every game I play (assuming I'm interested in the game enough to have decent reads). However, you might find that I tend to make my reads more complicated as the game goes on.
It's really more my playstyle than how I play as a specific alignment, so it shouldn't be used to clear me or to incriminate me, as it's entirely alignment-null. The only thing that should matter is whether or not you think I'm faking the reads.

[Om of the Nom]

Om, you also commented on Generic's bullshit townreads, but you also didn't really push DCL either.
You also put potential scum on Generic, but never really said anything else about that matter.

I wasn't pushing DCL because everyone else was and I wasn't getting a good feeling from it.
I followed up on my Generic slight scumread because I was asking him questions.

N where do you get these jokes they are so bad

Those jokes are amazing omg.

Right direction, but wrong ideas. DCL shouldn't be scum because he interpreted a post differently to you. I shouldn't be town because I interpreted it the same way. However I'm not opposed to the idea of DCL being scum, but really right now I'm just getting bad gut reads, nothing solid.

This is good posting (well aside from not being opposed to seeing me as scum :)

>implying I don't always goodpost

might go through in more depth later. just got back from last day of the school term and i am fucking tired from laughing so much today omg

[Om of the Nom]

Meanwhile, lets take a look at Generic, shall we?

First 5 posts- OMG HYDRAS CHEATING INSTA SCUMREAD OMFG GET THEM OUT

162- Nothing really, townreading people (wait, isn't it easier for scum to townhunt?)
166- Buddying and more townhunting.
The 4 posts from 172-187- Fluff posts, there to make him look like he's doing things but all in all he has done nothing.
188- Trying to force associative tells on the fact there is a wagon on him. Says that "affirms" his previous misgivings about my slot, which until that point had been expressed simply due to the fact we're a hydra.
190- I don't have time to focus on this game, when at the time he seems to have plenty of time for other games.
193- Newbie defense, strange. Doesn't seem to have played that card until he has a decent sized wagon on him.
194- More associative tells without a flip to appear scumhunting
196- Thanks captain obvious, your theory there really makes me think you're town! (Not.)
223- Wall of l0lbadcase
225- Him breaking rules
228- More fluff

Tell me folks, does that man seem town to you?

Do you know what IIoA is?

You're both acting like children, actually.
However, I'm inclined to believe Generic at this point, because when NTP was presented with an argument as to why Generic didn't vote immediately, NTP focused on the insult instead of the explanation, while claiming that his point was never refuted. He's ignoring a lot of information to try and portray Generic in a bad light.

[Om of the Nom]

I'm not discounting the possibility of them both being scum, however. But they're definitely not both town.

[Om of the Nom]

@Om, why does one of them have to be scum?

Because NTP is definitely scum.

[Om of the Nom]

If NTP is town

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[Om of the Nom]

I literally don't see how NTP could be town, that's just how strongly I feel about it. There's no other way to explain it.
Generic might be scum, but he might not be. I'm quite undecided on him now. I had him as slight scum earlier, then I started feeling town, but now I'm kinda uneasy about the argument between them. They're both resorting to scummy tactics in their argument with each other, but Generic seems to be putting more effort into it. I feel like he cares more about convincing everyone that NTP is scum.

[Om of the Nom]

I went and compiled generic's case on NTP. If I missed anything feel free to correct me. I'll do NTP's case on generic after.

I'm expecting some followup analysis to this.

[Om of the Nom]

towny points to whoever figures out why ommy is being scummy

I hope you're joking with this. Townie points for seeing the same thing as someone else is a pretty dumb way to find town :P

[Om of the Nom]

Also I liked your post on om, whom most people are just content to leave as town with not a lot of reason.
Yessiree remains towny

Can I please ask why the fuck you think that? yesiree just regurgitated questions that have already been asked of me and I already have explained and he added nothing new but a summation of what I said in regards to NTP-Generic. I don't even know what he's trying to say.

I don't even know what the fuck I'm supposed to answer. I said I don't think they're both town, when asked why I say because NTP is definitely scum, and when asked why I think they could both be scum I give my read on Generic. I do think they could be bussing because they both sound like they could be scum and an argument going nowhere is the perfect ruse to make one person seem townier after the other flips scum.
If that's not what is wanted then I don't fucking know what is.

[Om of the Nom]

So I'm scum because I said what you didn't think I'd say?
What I said was just a roundabout way of saying option 2, so why is option 1 only something scum would say?

[Om of the Nom]

Did you even take into account the fact that I've been voting NTP since I replaced in and I still haven't stopped voting him?

[Om of the Nom]

I still don't get why that makes me scum.
I think both could be scum but NTP is def scum so they can't both be town.
At this point in time I don't want to try and push a lynch on Generic because I'm undecided on his alignment therefore I'm not going to advocate a lynch on him because he might flip town.

You're pushing a lynch on me because I didn't say directly what you thought I would have said and you're attaching scum motivations to it that aren't there.
I'm not bs'ing by saying NTP is def scum because I've been voting him the whole time, otherwise I would have switched to someone I thought was more likely to be scum before saying that.
Like seriously it's not like what I said came out of the blue but that's how you seem to be treating it and I have no idea why you want to do that.

[Om of the Nom]

Is the wagon building solely to force him to stop dodging questions or have I missed something more damning on him? Currently im not seeing anything worthy of the speed those votes came in at.

This is pretty much my stance too right now.

Also hey look another shitty vote jump by yesiree with no original reasons yet again. How the fuck can people have him as town when he's playing like that?

[Om of the Nom]

anyone else starting to feel omnom and yessiree could be a team?

well hey i have bigger fish to fry in NTP but if you want to join me on yesiree then i'll gladly follow

[Om of the Nom]

@Om and/or Generic: Convince me that NTP is scum.

Trust my scumhunting powah and maybe we can make some magic happen.

No but seriously everything I said right when I replaced in is still pretty much valid and now that the focus isn't on NTP he's kinda just dropped his activity levels and nobody's really giving a shit so he's kinda just coasting along without pressure omg.
I literally can't explain why I just have him as a massive scumread over other people though, it's basically every single post of his incites the wrath of my gut and I literally don't go more than a single post of his without getting terribly large amounts of scumvibes that burn with the passion of a flaming heart.

Also I just want you to say that I totally see what you mean about this type of game I literally feel like a whole bunch of the players in this game aren't quite up to par yet, and while that's not a terrible thing I just feel like people are getting attacked for things they shouldn't and others are coasting when they shouldn't be at all and everyone just sounds like scum to me right now because I'm having trouble differentiating between inexperience and legitimate scumminess and gah this game is such a headache.

[Om of the Nom]

NTP is literally nothing but hydra dissonance and they keep claiming that they're discuss things in the QT but they've been blaming each other for their own scummy actions instead of explaining their motivations and it's just a massive cop out.

[Om of the Nom]

1) I OMGUS all the time

2) OMGUS is null

I hope you're only talking about this when used against yourself, because you've tried to use OMGUS as a scumtell multiple times in this game already.

[Om of the Nom]

The NTP wagon is stupid and you should feel bad for being on it.

it's funny because you say this while on the kid A wagon

[Om of the Nom]

If it gets to less than 6 hours left without a claim from NTP and he's still at L-1 then just lynch him anyway. I don't want to risk a no-lynch on D1, especially when by not moving I'm furthering the chances of a scum lynch.

[Om of the Nom]

VOTE: Bub
Chainsawed NTP basically the whole day by attacking his wagon with no decent reasoning (just saying he's been scumhunting is shit when he didn't provide any evidence and scumhunting is something that can be fairly easily faked by scum) and not pushing the wagon he was on instead (the only reason he was on the Kid A wagon in the first place was because he was sheeping RC).

RC is kinda guilty of the same stuff but to a lesser degree since he had original reasoning for wagoning Kid A. However I really don't like his hard-headedness into this new day and wish he'd rethink his Kid A read.

I'm pretty sure Kid A was a counter-wagon so scum would have been pushing it hard. Bub is the person who seems to fit the bill here. yesiree would be my second guess. However, if scum had been bussing instead then it was most likely Smudger, who could have been unsure of whether or not to bus which is why he waited so long to hammer (but I'm not as sure of this theory). Mutely being scum might not be unlikely either.

PEDIT: I diasgree with that NK analysis, actually. Either DCL was protecting a townier player and ended up dying instead, or they killed DCL over a townier player in case of protection on the townier player. I don't see killing either of you as a particularly good strategy because both of you could easily then have a case made on you the next day (saying this from the perspective that you're both town, though I think that's unlikely considering I'm thinking Bub is scum) because of your chainsaw defending of NTP.

[Om of the Nom]

So these votes on RC are stupid and bandwagony (Smudger's even more so) especially when there are worse offenders of the crimes he's committed *points to Bub*.

Also Bub is trying to play the defeatist side and I'm not buying it. Especially when he's not going to give any sort of follow-up to it.

[Om of the Nom]

anyone else starting to feel omnom and yessiree could be a team?

well hey i have bigger fish to fry in NTP but if you want to join me on yesiree then i'll gladly follow

any chance of u following up on this

ye maybe later i mean yesiree isn't as big of a scumread as he was yesterday so i'll see how things turn out

I don't know why anyone else doesn't see my case on Kid A that Yessiree is now following up on; why don't you think Kid A is scum?

I have been getting super townie vibes from Kid A all game and I really think he's just the kind of player who is often misunderstood and I see genuine scumhunting being attempted by him, but the persuasiveness of his attacks is hindered by his constant stumbling on words leading to him being suspected for saying scummy things. Basically I just feel like he's making an honest effort but his sup-par communication ability is being taken advantage of by scum.

PEDIT:

So these votes on RC are stupid and bandwagony (Smudger's even more so)

especially when there are worse offenders of the crimes he's committed

*points to Bub*.

Also Bub is trying to play the defeatist side and I'm not buying it. Especially when he's not going to give any sort of follow-up to it.

could you elaborate please the bolded part,

I don't see what needs elaboration. A lot of what people are voting RC for are things that Bub was guilty of too to an even further degree. Your reason for voting him is not taken into account here because it's, quite frankly, extremely dumb because having two people you would like to wagon at once is not a sign of indecisiveness nor is it scummy.

[Om of the Nom]

I strongly believe that all scum are on the NTP wagon.

ok at this point anyone who was considering sheeping RC needs to re evaluate

While this option is not completely out of the blue I struggle to see who the scum would be if it were true.

[Om of the Nom]

I think the mafia came to the same conclusions. It follows that they would both try to bus him for towncred.

So right now you think Kid A was bussing but who do you think the last person was?

[Om of the Nom]

...Smudger?

o yeah i forgot you said that *facepalm*
it's 2AM give me a break :P

I don't understand why Smudger would have necessarily voted NTP over Kid A though when he could have just waited it out (IIRC he already said he most likely wasn't going to be there by deadline so it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary).

[Om of the Nom]

Scum-Bub doing hard defending of NTP isn't as weird as it sounds because obviously the people on the Kid A wagon were more vocal about the NTP wagon being bad and so even if he hadn't had said anything drastic the support would have been there from everyone else. What I'm more worried about anyway is the fact that he chose to hard defend over shit reasons with no evidence when could have been bringing up new things against Kid A instead. It shows a lack of conviction in his read and more of a willingness to defend his own.

Generic I really had no idea what you were trying to aim for with your fishing accusation so please enlighten me on what was fishing because I don't see anything :')

[Om of the Nom]

It was when you pressed for who cowbells thought was scum on the NTP wagon, like you were checking you weren't in the frame (self image concerns).

Possibly a paranoia thing on my part, possibly something to note for later.

no i just forgot he had said it and wondered what he was basing his theories off

[Om of the Nom]

Om of the Nom is extremely hard for me to read
I am suspicious

just believe im town and then everything makes sense
but seriously just because you think im hard to read it isn't a reason for you to be suspicious

[Om of the Nom]

This is probably irrelevant but:

Generic I really had no idea what you were trying to aim for with your fishing accusation so please enlighten me on what was fishing because I don't see anything :')

Why in the world did you go with the :') smiley? Are you crying tears of joy that Generic is accusing you of fishing?

nono it's just an in-joke with me and my friends to not use normal smiley faces and alter them all in some way, I guess I did it out of habit :"3

:^}

[Om of the Nom]

Thanks ( フ^v^)フ

[Om of the Nom]

I have nothing to really say right now except lynch Bub please.

[Om of the Nom]

TMT makes sense as a vig kill and not an NK. RC makes sense as a vig kill, but not an NK. I don't understand why scum would kill off RC right after the Bub lynch when RC was still quite lynchable after a Bub-town flip, and at the same time reducing possible lynches from the Kid A wagon D1. But then at the same time I am not able to understand why scum would kill off TMT either, because he is very lurky and not contributing much.

I am thinking maybe scum just wanted to throw us off track by killing TMT. I mean, when you think about it, he didn't really have enough of a presence in this game to really be read either way, and that includes not being read as scum. RC however had a lot of variation in reads between everyone and was probably someone who people's opinions could be swayed on (with more stuff to incriminate, as opposed to little contribution from TMT).
RC as a vig kill makes sense because after Bub, he was the most likely scum pushing the Kid A wagon due to his discrediting the NTP wagon without pushing his own wagon (aka basically what I said for Bub yesterday).


NK analysis aside though, I am quite happy to lynch Smudger today. His hammer on the NTP wagon could have easily come from scum, and his last post about the potential mod slip just looks like a ruse to hide the truth.
Mutely is also a good lynch because of the hammer yesterday.

[Om of the Nom]

concerning my post, it's a fair and honest line of thought as opposed to the verbal garbage you just posted, what exactly are you saying in all that, that has not already been stated, what in all of that is not echoing previous posts?

idk maybe the fact that i am disagreeing with everyone that has posted so far about the nk in that i think tmt was the scum nk and rc was vigged??????

I guess if you're fine to just try and discredit my whole post like that (esp when trying to generalise my reason for voting you (and yes I realised I forgot to vote :P) without paying attention to context) then I guess that's all the more reason for me to think you're scum.

In case you do not understand, I think you were reading too far into the mod slip deliberately in an attempt to distract people from the actual events of the night. Not to mention that your post about that came after Ald's post about RC's death implied Kid A was scum, therefore giving you more incentive to make that post in the attempt to further convince Ald.
You say you're speaking your mind, and cool that's all fine and dandy if it's true, but I don't think it is. I think what you said was manufactured.
Hammering a lynch is not bad in itself, but the fact you did so when you had opportunities to change the lynch looked to me like you were worried about whether to bus or not, and ended up running out of time before you could really make your decision. At which point you just decided to hammer so you could get the towncred for helping the town by securing a lynch before deadline had hit, let alone a scum lynch.

[Om of the Nom]

If you care to actually read my post you will see that it is balanced. And on fact follows the line that either NK has similar reasons for both a scum or Vig shot. As for the Hammer I gave enough notice and was sure on my vote as I had a very good fell the TIP part of the Hydra. I could not mention it then but I can now as the game I was in with TIP ended recently. In that game TIP was town, there were differences between the way that TIP played there and the one here. If you want to check its in my wiki. And yes I was scum in that game and it was a win. So forgive me for actively scum hunting and actually hammering one.

No it wasn't. It was just a bunch of waffles and only a couple decent reasons in there. Most of what you said appeared to be based on nothing and there was no conclusion drawn in the end. It's just useless words designed to look like content. You pointed out no similar reasons for an NK on either of them, and the only similar reason you had for them both potentially being a vig shot was that the vig thought they might be scum (which is completely baseless and not backed up with reasons).

Why don't we take a look at the progression of your NTP scum read at the end of the day then, shall we?

Spoiler: Relevant posts (if you think any of the posts between the first and the last that I didn't quote are essential, then feel free to challenge)

We found scum, we're just waiting until people realize this and start voting.

unfortunately I do not agree with the "both" of you and this persistence is somewhat irritating to the point of making me take another look at the gibberish I find in many of your posts. maybe people are right about your scummy interaction?

With the deadlock being unlikely to change without the remaining three people not voting for either kid A or NTP can those three assess the cases against both and see if either wagon appeals.

I don't know how the site handles a deadlock at deadline.

We found scum, we're just waiting until people realize this and start voting.

unfortunately I do not agree with the "both" of you and this persistence is somewhat irritating to the point of making me take another look at the gibberish I find in many of your posts. maybe people are right about your scummy interaction?

already am reassessing and prone to move my vote TBH

My weekend and will not be active until Sunday. I see the L-1 and as stated have an intention to vote NTP, but will hold so I can read back
Before I vote and who for

Welcome Mutley

There is nothing wrong with NTP witholding a claim until absolutely necessary. In fact, I find it rather towny, given how close he is to being lynched I would think scum NTP would rather appease town then attempt to piss them off.

I disagree, the closer to DL the more likely it is to cause confusion and provide a no lynch or mislynch, you need to claim early so it can be discussed.

I have read again, I will vote NTP. Therefore I intend to Hammer.

I can hammer now or if you want listen to the case against Kid.

OK have just finished reading and my what a lot to take in. So there seems to be a division on whether to lynch NTP or not dependent on the authenticity of the claim, and regardless of that the general consensus seems to be that either way it has to happen. the the Kid A lynch has come back into prominence in some peoples minds, I still do not feel comfortable with that at this time. I also see that Bub has raised questions through his defense of NTP. One question who is "666" or did I miss something.

i must say, i am a little nervous that two of my larger scumreads (666 & bub) are defending NTP this late into the day...

Let me know please if this hammer drops or not?

ah I see. But in general the feeling is NTP? or is there a shift to Kid?

The reason I am asking is that I will, in all probability not be here near to DL, as my timezone and RL will preclude me. I would like to vote NTP but he is L-1, if there is further discussion to come then I do not want to hammer for obvious reasons. But if I place my vote on Kid, which is not something I would like to do as I am not fully convinced TBH, then we have 2 players at L-1. I will come back in about 5 hours and see what has happened.

VOTE: NotThePope

As you can see here, your whole idea to reread NTP was sparked from irritation in the tactics of NTP. This idea was furthered by the mob mentality of NTP being scum. These are very lackluster reasons to potentially change a read on someone because there is little thought in actually analysing the posts before making the decision to reread.
After that you are under the pretense of rereading NTP while waffling on the vote despite claims of you wanting to vote NTP. This is where the idea of indecision comes from, in that you are unsure of whether or not you are really going to follow through with what you are saying.
Then comes a few more posts with the intention to vote NTP but not delivering on those intentions.
Once you looked at the claim you decided that NTP had to be lynched regardless of the claim's authenticity. This is really beginning to show that you just want the lynch already. This is where the newb-scum impatience comes from (newb-scum would be more excited than newb-town at the idea of being seen as town among everyone).
Then after that you were asking about the current town consensus. This looks like a final ditch effort to try and save your buddy by trying to find out if a switch to Kid A is really worth it.
Then finally, before the post in which you hammer, you claim that you are wanting to hammer NTP, but then you waffle on it yet again under the pretense of allowing discussion to go a little longer. At the same time you claim that you are not willing to vote Kid A because you weren't very convinced and you were worried that him being at L-1 would be bad (reasons not specified). Here is where you really begin to warm up to the idea of bussing, but it's too late to try any new tactics now so you just solidify your opinion on the matter.

[Om of the Nom]

fun facts: p much everyone who isnt me townreads om the nom
fun facts (2): om the nom isnt dead despite being townread by everyone except me
fun facts (3): the only reason to keep this person alive is if they think i will be able to push a lynch on them OR if they townread the mafia
fun facts (4): om of the nom isnt outing many reads so the latter is shit
fun facts (5): what are the chances of me pushing a lynch im lazy as fuck
fun facts (6): om the nom is mafia with yessiree

Okay well it's not like I'm the only person who is quite universally read as town. Come back to me when you are not altering things to fit your case :)

Complete crap, is all I can say, a manufactured case based on me stalling my Hammer on NTP. Lets make this very clear, at the time I made it very clear that I had suspicions for both NTP and Kid, they were both close to lynch so I could have gone either way. Then as I have stated I looked at the TIP part of the Hydra and compared it with the other game I.have mentioned, alarm bells rang which convinced me to focus on NTP. I asked for a consensus of opinion for 2 reasons, one knowing that the votes were split and 2. To see who may jump to NTPs defence or vice versa with KidA no one did which in my mind meant that, should NTP flip scum thdn the Kid A wagon woukd possibly have the majority of scum.on,, so aftrr giving fair warning and considering the fake claim I thammered.

The case against me is manufactured and subjective and completely wrong.

This explains nothing. You basically stalled the vote because the votes were split and also you claim that it was for reactionary purposes yet I am not seeing anything that you gained from it (if you did follow it up and I missed it then feel free to quote what you said). You're just making excuses.
That last sentence at the bottom looks extremely tacked on and is quite buzzword oriented.

[Om of the Nom]

Om, your allegations are baseless, your last statement and other statements are actually quite hollow, and you are now criticizing me for use of words and grammar, really?

So your case surrounding me is the fact that I state the obvious concerning a slip made by the Mod, I hammered NTP and I use buzzwords?

So you didn't gain any information from stalling the NTP hammer? Okay, that just further proves my point that you weren't doing it for scumhunting purposes.

Please, tell me how they're hollow, because if you aren't able to do that then clearly your defenses are just as hollow as you claim my attacks to be. Also yes thanks again for ignoring context in your defense because it's not like buzzwords are buzzwords for a reason. If you think I am just attacking you for your words then think again, I am not skimming over the top of your post, I am actually reading deeper into it. I'm looking more at the intent of the usage of those words than the usage of the words themselves.

Read through the case again and maybe you'll understand why I am attacking you.


Here, why don't you answer me this? What specifically were the aspects of TIP's play that really caused you to scumread him?

[Om of the Nom]

again your whole case is crap, prove otherwise...

you have to prove it is before i can prove it isn't...

Here, why don't you answer me this? What specifically were the aspects of TIP's play that really caused you to scumread him?

the way he interacted in this thread as opposed to the other game, it was different it was not the same. I sawa difference in his play, I was scum in the other game so I knew he was town , here it is the other way around, believe what you want I have made my statements I stick by them. either vote for me or go find another tree to piss against.

this does not explain much at all. what was different about the interactions?

also goddamnit I keep forgetting to vote :P
VOTE: Smudger

[Om of the Nom]

thank you

scum OM

VOTE: Om

way to detract from answering my question :)

[Om of the Nom]

If you want to see the interactions go look for yourself I provided the information on where to find it. off you go there's a good boy..

So you'd rather let me decide, as someone who you think is scum and therefore likely to alter my response to further my statements instead of posting why it's different so that everyone can judge accordingly?

This is why I'm thinking you aren't looking to scumhunt, instead just looking for a lynch that isn't you. Just in case you didn't understand :)

[Om of the Nom]

You claim that my case is horrible but when given the opportunity to potentially nullify one of my points you refuse to accept because you are too busy discrediting my case. You do realise that if you can prove that you had legitimate reasons for the sudden change of opinion on NTP then maybe, just maybe, you might actually be able to show people why my case is baseless? I mean if you are interested in actually scumhunting and trying to convince other people to get me lynched then sure you would be doing this, but you are just out to save yourself now.

Most of your effort in "combating" my case has been discrediting it as much as you can by calling it wrong with baseless reasons. You call my reasons subjective but you are not looking at what I see. I am looking at your actions and trying to find out what you are based on the options that you chose and applying them to your alignment. Stalling in the way you did is not the way I would expect town to stall a hammer. I would expect town to try and further discussion during the stall time but you really did nothing towards that. Before your hammer you never even gave an opinion on NTP's claim either, just saying that it had to happen either way.

You were building up the mod slip to be much more important than it actually was. Maybe the scumteam wrote the actions down in their QT and the mod forgot to check the QT? Maybe the mod just forgot to double-check any PM's he might have seen? It is not. fucking. relevant. You were just attaching fake ideas to it to make it look more appealing.

[Om of the Nom]

I am not going to look at that game when you haven't even fucking said why it is different. If you are trying to convince me that I'm wrong then you should be fucking taking the effort. If I was using meta tells I'd at least go to the effort of explaining what was either similar or different in the games. You are just claiming that it is a 'difference in reactions' which is a fucking blanket statement because obviously you are just pulling reasons out of your ass.

I don't even use meta based on what they post, I use meta based on what I feel from them when they post. I know it sounds dumb but it's what works for me. I don't need the context of a whole game to decide on alignments, at times I even do better with nothing to go on in the middle of day 3. I am giving you an opportunity here to prove your point but you are claiming that I will just shoot it down immediately because really you just have no point to begin with.

[Om of the Nom]

the lead up to the hammer, one of your observations was that it was scummy, so then by that accoutn FoS should be pointed at RC and Muttley, oh hang on RC is dead...

we arent lynching anyone until ntp says what type of bomb he is

Deadline actually must have passed looking back at the last post count.

What happens, a no lynch or highest votes gets it?

If there ends up being no chance of a Kid A lynch, I will do the hammer onto NTP.

Posting this for the time stamp...

Yer so someone needs to hammer

OR change vote to kid A and hammer that one

OK I got caught up at work

VOTE: NotThePope

look at 501

who is left alive on the Kid A wagon? what are the odds that all those on the Kid A wagon are/were town? against the odds that all of the scum were on the NTP wagon?

I don't know what you're trying to prove here. With two scum likely alive and only one unflipped player on the Kid A wagon, regardless of yesiree's alignment there has to be at least one scum on the NTP wagon, and right now you're that person. If we take a look at each person individually, everyone but you, mutely and yesiree are confident townreads of mine, so it's not like it's as out of the blue as you imply. You're really just trying to deflect the attention off you with this post.

[Om of the Nom]

I don't know what you're trying to prove here. With two scum likely alive and only one unflipped player on the Kid A wagon, regardless of yesiree's alignment there has to be at least one scum on the NTP wagon, and right now you're that person. If we take a look at each person individually, everyone but you, mutely and yesiree are confident townreads of mine, so it's not like it's as out of the blue as you imply. You're really just trying to deflect the attention off you with this post.

then lynch me and the game is lost

okay well lets look at this from my POV with optimal scenarios happening

8 alive (6t 2s) - you (flip town) = 7 people going into night
7 people - mafia nk = 6 people going into day 4 (I'm thinking vig was just one shot)
6 people left and with extreme confidence that Generic, Alabaska, Ald and Kid A are town (and myself, obvs), it just leaves Mutely and yesiree at a point where lynching both of them in succession is a guaranteed win.

so really i am not sure why you think the game would be lost by lynching you.

[Om of the Nom]

@Om: You don't usually post this much text in my experience. Why the change?

idk actually, maybe i am just very argumentative today or something. it's not entirely uncommon for me to wall fight though (this is one of the tamer ones).

[Om of the Nom]

Can you link me to a game where you got into a wall fight? Preferably the most recent one available that's not ongoing.

I just realised that basically all my wall fighting games were from last year...
I mean if you still want them I can link some but I'm not sure if it's still entirely relevant.

[Om of the Nom]

Claim: Gunsmith

Claim: Om of the Nom has a gun

@Om: claim your role please

I am VT and this is a fakeclaim.
VOTE: yesiree

[Om of the Nom]

I visited RadiantCowbells on night 1, got inno, so I sheeped him on day 2

Kid A on night 2, got inno, so I no longer suspected Kid A on day 3

Om on night 3, got guilty

Why did you choose these targets?

[Om of the Nom]

I visited RadiantCowbells on night 1, got inno, so I sheeped him on day 2

Kid A on night 2, got inno, so I no longer suspected Kid A on day 3

Om on night 3, got guilty

Why did you choose these targets?

I see no need to answer a ConfScum's question at this point

I claimed you have a gun, and you claimed VT

Well I mean it's not like somebody else wouldn't have asked it anyway?

[Om of the Nom]

Then what's the point of not answering the question when I ask it?

[Om of the Nom]

Basically Om of the Nom sacrificed his scum partner NTP to get towncred at the beginning.

Day 2, Om was the biggest pusher of Bub

Day 3, Om was the biggest pusher of Smudger

So?
Being a big pusher of the wagons that lynched does not a scum make.

[Om of the Nom]

You can't fault only me for something everyone else believed me enough to follow me on. Obviously if they managed to get lynched then the cases had merit and the people who were lynched were legitimately scummy to the majority.

[Om of the Nom]

DCL was a Bodyguard, don't forget.


PEDIT:

You can't fault only me for something everyone else believed me enough to follow me on. Obviously if they managed to get lynched then the cases had merit and the people who were lynched were legitimately scummy to the majority.

your reads were so accurate on Day 1

and they went to shit afterwards, what happened?

your scum-hunting skills only work on day 1?

Burden of Profciency.

[Om of the Nom]

why am I scum?

I claimed gunsmith

and no one will CC me since doing since whoever cc me, the ConfScumTeam is that person + Om

Not being CC'ed does not a town make.

[Om of the Nom]

It doesn't

but I claim to have guilty on you

you're getting lynched either today or tomorrow

choose

We have to lynch you first to actually obtain that tomorrow.

[Om of the Nom]

wait actually if yessiree is scum hes already voting om so

VOTE: om of the nom

and if yesiree is scum then he's fakeclaiming???

i mean do you not see a problem with what you just did.
there is a possible scenario from your POV where yesiree and i are scum, yes
but there can't be a way that I am scum without yesiree being scum with me, because if he is town then that means 4 PR's which is too favourable to town.
either way, yesiree is fakeclaiming here.

[Om of the Nom]

no because you committed the most obvious bus ever d1

i was the main pusher behind the ntp wagon???
I mean I've stuck my neck out on the line by being a large pusher on every single wagon while yesiree has just sat around under the radar and not done anything.

also 4 prs includes one even night and one 1 shot ability

just because limited shots does not mean underpowered.
even just having a non-limited neighbouriser for town is fucking OP as shit. You don't need a Gunsmith if you already have an Even-Night vig and Bodyguard along with it.

[Om of the Nom]

I don't see the point of no lynching when scum will just kill the only person who isn't under any suspicion (Generic). How the fuck does that help us in any way in determining who is the scumteam?

[Om of the Nom]

VOTE: No Lynch
T'was fun :)

[Om of the Nom]

:~~)

[Om of the Nom]

:~~~~~)

[Om of the Nom]

VOTE: Om
:)

[Om of the Nom]

ahahahaha
Great job Generic, I knew I was right to trust you to win this (though I was annoyed at how long it took you to hammer).

[Om of the Nom]

I was surprised nobody even noticed that Neighbouriser would have been extremely overpowered if it had actually been on town's side this game.

[Om of the Nom]

Shall I link the QT's?

PEDIT: Having a communication role that also works during the night is extremely useful, especially if you are someone who people will listen to or think are town with little doubt.

[Om of the Nom]

Plus not to mention that there were 3 town PR's and having a 4th would have been extremely unbalanced without a mafia PR in there.

PEDIT: Well I pinned NTP and my slot down as scum before I replaced in, and it just went from there.

[Om of the Nom]

Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/CeaTXG6tBvhz
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/c9X6uqAYuVx
Neighbour QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/5Hn6VKqmmFN6E


And yes, I was very worried omfg.

[Om of the Nom]

Yeah, yesiree almost stuffed us up, but I knew as long as he couldn't confirm anyone else then the game would still have been winnable because Generic was thought to be almost confirmed town.

PEDIT: The smugness was major WIFOM games there.

[Om of the Nom]

Well I mean NTP kinda helped the team by being an easy bus????

[Om of the Nom]

I'm going to nominate Ald's meltdown as a Most Memorable Event.

Yes please.

[Om of the Nom]

But when you think about it, mafia had no protection against any of those roles. We had no way to counter a Bodyguard attempt, we had no investigation immunity (let alone from a gunsmith) and we had no protection from vig kills. We only had a communication role.

[Om of the Nom]

Generic you were really good this game and I hope you stick around and play more games on this site :--)