Open 512: See Nine Plus Plus (Game Ovah)

[Glass]

VOTE: Dyslexicon

I have no reason to believe this guy is town.

[Glass]

@Glass: Nice Onani Master Kurosawa avatar. Or, at least, it looks like that guy's work. My original avatar on this site was from Chikan Otoko.

Thanks, it is from OMK.

[Glass]

VOTE: CherryDrPepper

Only person remotely scummy so far. It's odd that she is willing to put a vote on Varsoon in RVS but has to consult her other head before changing votes to Saki.

@Glass: Cool. If you haven't read his other stuff, I highly suggest checking out Chikan Otoko.

Yep, read it and enjoyed it. But thank you for the recommendation regardless.

[Glass]

Anyway, to the game--why is hydra voteswapping scummy?

That is not what is scummy. It's that right now she is sitting with her vote on you (because you don't participate in RVS) when she has implied that she finds Saki's behaviour suspicious.

Leaving my vote with Saki because worst town posts so far.

Ah, but you do believe they are town?

[Glass]

Titus and Pasch:
Do you think that Saki was being serious when he was pushing for a policy lynch?

[Glass]

So why aren't you voting Saki?

[Glass]

VOTE: Titus

[Glass]

Glass' vote was bad. Why is it odd?

Because voting for someone for a reason > voting for someone for no reason.

Glass, if you mention twice, it hardly counts as a joke.

I would hardly call any of Saki's posts thus far serious.

I also dislike policy lynches, but talking about them can be useful. Meanwhile, voting Titus for opposing policy lynches is stupid.

That is not why I am voting Titus, but I guess it's understandable to think that since I didn't explicitly say why I was. It is very similar to the reason why I was voting Cherry, in that Titus has a suspect in mind but keeping his vote RVS because he is scared that a wagon will form on his suspect... Doesn't really make sense to me.

[Glass]

How is Glass not voting opportunistically when both of his votes were onto a person already under suspicion and voted upon? Varsoon seems to be giving a bit too much credit to Glass for some reason. I see Glass and Varsoon aligned at this point.

I would like to hear Glass's reaction to this.

Voted upon? Titus only had 1 vote when I voted for him.
Already under suspicion? How many people displayed suspicion of Titus before I voted him? I can only see ori.

@glass

what in these post made you want to vote titus?

Already answered this:

It is very similar to the reason why I was voting Cherry, in that Titus has a suspect in mind but keeping his vote RVS because he is scared that a wagon will form on his suspect... Doesn't really make sense to me.

So, why are you voting me?

[Glass]

No, I don't.

[Glass]

VOTE: jmo

How long are you going to continue dodging questions?

[Glass]

I really hate when people automatically say others are dodging/ignoring questions.

Then you probably shouldn't dodge/ignore questions.

Kinda thought it was obvious the reason I voted for you in the last post, I see Titus as newb town. Your vote on him is because he is an easy lynch target at this point in the game.

Sigh, it's like trying to pull teeth here. Why do you think that my reason for voting him is because he is an easy lynch target, as opposed to my stated reason?

[Glass]

Also, why do you think Titus is a newbie given that he has played games here and has linked to site where he says the bulk of his meta exists?

So Glass is calling out to jmo for voting without a reason when Glass did the exact same thing on 64?

I am moreso calling him out on refusing to give reason for his vote when asked for it.

[Glass]

Glass why did you vote me on 64?

My goodness, I have already explained this 2-3 times. Read post 73

Misrep. More votes for glass.

What misrep? Varsoon asked why you are voting in post 82, you deflect the question on pos t85, and Varsoon asks again on post 87. You ignore that question in post 94 and 95.

Then I come by and figure maybe asking you again will get some answers. So I ask in post 96 and again you do not respond.

Finally after I vote for you for refusing to respond your explanation is simply "Glass voted because Titus is an easy lynch". What? You could have pointed at anyone on the Titus wagon and said the same thing, could you not?

[Glass]

Well there were only two people who voted Titus. Oriole then you Glass. Since you voted second, you were the one jumping on the wagon, not Oriole. So why would he point at Oriole as picking Titus as an easy linch?

Hmm, I thought that Dys had voted for Titus before jmo voted for me but looking back I was incorrect. Regardless, jmo thinks that he is an easy lynch because he is a newb, not because he had a wagon.

[Glass]

glass, you said that i refused to answer questions. Where did i say no, I'm not going to answer that?

Actions often speak louder than words, jmo.

[Glass]

@jmo

Glass- What do you think of Varsoon backing you so strongly? I don't think you've said anything about it.

I don't have any objections to it.

The more I see. The more convinced I am Saki is indeed a mislynch. In post 35, Saki says "town points to whoever guesses my avatar". That's a pretty good way to trap newbie scum, because they will indeed guess at it. No one fell for it,

Actually, Varsoon guessed in [post]post 38[/quote]. Also, I don't see the meta contradictions from Varsoon, can you point them out?

[Glass]

post 38

grahh

[Glass]

38

I'll just leave now

[Glass]

Is the townread mutual (Do you townread Varsoon)?

At the moment, yes.

[Glass]

Glass: Basically just laying down steaming piles of bullshit. Like the "I already explained why I voted for Titus" bit. The only post where he addresses his vote on Titus at all is only saying that others are misinterpreting him.

I did say my reason after saying that you misinterpreted me:

Titus has a suspect in mind but keeping his vote RVS because he is scared that a wagon will form on his suspect... Doesn't really make sense to me.

I'm glad that that is cleared up.

And then Jmo for... not jumping to answer him.

Voting without reason -> asked about reason several times and deflected followed by avoiding/ignoring the question. At least try to look at this objectively and you will see what I mean.

slips are pretty weak reasons for a vote.

O_o

[Glass]

@Pasch
The reason that I took excerpts from your post was to indicate what part of your post I was responding to, the reason that I took an excerpt from my post was because you missed it the first time, so I figured I would help you out by showing you directly what you had missed. I don't find it particularly difficult to understand, but I will try to make my posts clearer in the future.

--------------------------------------------------------
This means I am swapping to a different topic
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@Varsoon
What is the deal with the Saki read/vote? When he was around you displayed literally no suspicion of him, your only posts about Saki were post 38 in which you said:

@Saki: Looks like Haruko from FLCL, but I know that's not the case. Also, got anything to say about the game-state?

and post 52 where you said:

@Pasche: Heya! Sorry I placed out of the last game we had, but couldn't handle the work-load. Glad to see you as conf-town here. Not sure if I agree with your Saki point, since I've seen plenty of town cull votes for lynches in a similar fashion. Reads as null for me.
Which, you know, I could vote for because I don't like the process, but that's like the pot calling the kettle black. Eh, maybe I'm over-thinking it. It's 6 AM here, so I'll post when I'm more coherent.

In these posts you seem less than inclined to believe that Saki is scum, and your opinion of Saki suddenly changes to scum in post 132 even though Saki has said nothing between post 52 and 132 except "V/LA".

Saki - Scum. (Might be village idiot. Vote hopping like no tomorrow and worse empty votes than JMO. My vote would be here, but I always feel naughty when I vote people on V/LA.)

Also, why did you unvote jmo in the first place?

--------------------------------------------------------

Really want to hear more from Dys/Stubbs/Tunnel/VoteMe/Cherry

[Glass]

Sorry I have been missing the last few days, life got suddenly busy. Catching up now.

[Glass]

I'll be back tonight but here are my thoughts atm.

UNVOTE:

Pray tell what do you wanna hear from us Glass.

Just more in general really since I don't have a read, at this point it isnt as necessary.

Also would like Glass's thoughts on Titus and Tunnel.

Since I voted for Titus he has been very town, so ya.
I have no idea on Tunnel, but why are you interested in Tunnel in particular?

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Regarding the Saki and Varsoon claims... I find it very odd that a scum would be counterclaiming roleblocker as this point of the game, as it is pretty much inviting a 1v1. Also, the fact that since the odds of us having 2 actual roleblockers in this game is ~3.5% it's hard to imagine that Varsoon as scum would counterclaim to get Saki lynched, and then try to talk his way out of it tomorrow. It's even more strange that Saki has Varsoon as a scumread and as a counterclaim but is not voting for him...

Roleblocker is an excellent fake claim for a scum roleblocker. After all, you just ask who did you roleblock and the scum roleblocker can give the same answer as a town roleblocker would.

I think that this is likely and I would further go on to say if Saki does flip roleblocker there is likely no godfather, since fakeclaiming roleblocker when only 0-2 T's were rolled makes it likely that there would be a counterclaim. That all being said I find it really strange the way Sakiscum would throw himself out there as roleblocker when there is a risk of counterclaim and the 50% chance of there being a SK.

I think Varsoon is definitely scum but I don't want to cut the day short nor let Titus dance out of this.

Is Titus also "definitely scum"?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone down for a varsoon lynch?

VOTE: varsoon

Why?

[Glass]

@Glass, I think scumSaki claims roleblocker in this setup knowing there's little chance of a counterclaim (it's the least likely role). If no one counterclaims, Saki sails for a little while just because he is a PR. He can then say well WIFOM is why I stayed alive so long.

The thing is, if there is a scum roleblocker then scum know that there is a lot of town power, and hence a decent chance of being counterclaimed. After reading this all over again, I don't really see either Varsoon or Saki's claim to be particularly egregious.

At this point I do not feel we should lynch Saki or Varsoon. There are a couple of reasons for this:
1. Although it is unlikely, having 2 RB's would be a huge boon and I would rather not lynch them one after the other and kill (likely) the majority of our power
2. If 1 is scum and the other town, we have MBXXXXX, we can have the roleblockers block each other and have our (probable) other PR's perform their night actions without fear of being blocked.
3. If both are scum then we have MXXXXXX, and a very good chance of a cop who will get a guilty on the roleblockers.

[Glass]

Second: I get that you didn't want to get lynched, but you weren't doing it to avoid lynch... You WANTED to claim. Why? What is the motivation for wanting to claim so bad? You couldve brought your a game, made a case against a scum all, lobbied for more time before lynch (we have lots of days before dayphase deadline. You had options that you didn't exhaust... You WANTED to claim.

And scum wants to claim and potentially get CC'd?

[Glass]

What options I see none except the claim. I specifically said I didn't want to claim, too. Titus's L-2 vote is why I claimed, not because I wanted to claim.

It's pretty clear that you wanted to claim by the fact that you:
1. Thought that you had to be L-1 to claim.
2. Was going to vote yourself to put yourself at L-1 so you could claim.

[Glass]

Just so you know, 1 + 2 together show that she wanted to claim, they are not separate reasons.

[Glass]

Whatever anyone says I am not role-blocking Titus or Varsoon.

Why?