NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[ffullisade]

hi guys.

nacho, I hear from mollie that you are looking pretty scummy. tell me it ain't so.

what else do I need to know?

- fery

[ffullisade]

hi guys.

nacho, I hear from mollie that you are looking pretty scummy. tell me it ain't so.

what else do I need to know?

- fery

hey ffery

now, more than ever, I need you to not sheep the "project themselves as power players" crowd

because this game is a bigger mess than a pot of south carolina shrimp gumbo spilled over a gopher hole (although actually w/ 1 bluescum down we are doing alright)

mollie is towntowntown so I figure you are town for being in the same slot, HELP MEE

I got to about page 13 yesterday and then decided to wait and see if mollie and I survived the night before reading the whole damn thread.

13 pages was enough to get a scum vibe off Red Ryu, though, as well as a sense of unease about Nacho. I don't really know Thor. he was another active player during the period before day 1 voting was supposed to start. How do you feel about him? Think he's town?

pedit hi maramala! same question to you?

[ffullisade]

also....fuuuuu I thought our name was ffusillade.

- f

[ffullisade]

actually was dodging Thor's questions. It was enough to move them out of the town pile. 2.) Majiffy was the only one who backed Red Ryu up about directing the night actions. Everybody else who commented was against it, iirc, and referred to it as anti-town.[/quote]
that is so majiffy.

I'll be focusing more on reads than on strategy probably. I know my strengths and weaknesses.

figuring you out is going to be a priority after our first game together.

- f

[ffullisade]

ugh quote fail...trying again.

Ffullisade: Two things: 1.) The Thor/Mollie interaction from d1. Mollie actually was dodging Thor's questions. It was enough to move them out of the town pile. 2.) Majiffy was the only one who backed Red Ryu up about directing the night actions. Everybody else who commented was against it, iirc, and referred to it as anti-town.

that is so majiffy.

I'll be focusing more on reads than on strategy probably. I know my strengths and weaknesses.

- f

[ffullisade]

figuring you out is going to be a priority after our first game together.

lol?

I haven't betrayed you once. Ever. I wasn't even betraying you in that first game.

You keep referring to our first game as though I did a bad thing

Sure, 42 ended up being scum but I wouldn't have seen that w/o my top scumread being lynched in that game

and I helped you realize that AP was scum in that game

I'm a good guy man, and my reads are good. Maybe they aren't perfect, but they are good

and nacho isn't sitting right with plenty of people for a reason

that was to bulba. he fooled me pretty badly in the first game we played. and left me alive to endgame too, damn him.

- f

[ffullisade]

also, bacde, I only kid you about that game because you keep telling me to sheep you. I blame myself for taking my vote off Red Ryu after he replaced 42.

pedit bulba? buddying? I thought you had ME as null/scum?

curious.

- f

[ffullisade]

ugh this argument for nacho being town is ALL wifom

and your argument for me being scum is that I'm pushing on nacho

No, the argument for Nacho being

scum

is all WIFOM. And my argument for you being scum is the

way

you're pushing Nacho, not the actual push itself.

P-edit: I moved it to null/scum. I'm still trying to make up my mind about that slot. I'll probably get a much better read from Ffery in the next few pages.

fwiw I think I'll be able to spot scum-nacho if he's scum this game.

and this IMO is town bacde.

- f

[ffullisade]

I feel that I should go smoke a cigarette and/or bang my head against the wall.

You should vote Haylen whether or not you do these things.

~

hi HD. what's your reasoning on Haylen?

- fery

[ffullisade]

@cephrir I don't see B&B/ffullisade in a list.

- fery

[ffullisade]

bacde, can you run down your other reads?

- f

[ffullisade]

OMG, Bacde no... I think I'm wrong about Nacho though I wouldn't mind you following me onto Eddie

VOTE: Eddie

Going back to where I ended yesterday, Fuck you guys for lynching OS though

Mollie, was it you who said KK was town or was it Jiffy because I want to know why KK is town...

~Mara

it was me

I had him as town cos I liked his posts and I liked his push on thor. anybody who pushes thor is my auto-friend.

but nero asking me about khan out of the blue like that was weird. and his crappy excuse as to why he asked was even scummier. if nero flips scum khan is likely his teammate

[ffullisade]

Want to address your partner's question dodging?
Is that one of your strengths?

Hello! I've been looking forward to playing a game with you sometime.

I can't answer questions about day 1 beyond about page 15 yet. I imagine questions about Mollie's play will be better answered by her, though.

- f

[ffullisade]

Oh, I KNOW they would be better answered by her.
But, y'know, the whole 'dodging' thing is something of an impediment to the entire discussion.
So I just decided she's scuma and needs death. Let me know if you have any deeper thoughts about that one.

Mollie says that she scumread you and you OMGUSed.

Is this true? What page did your questions start on?

- f

[ffullisade]

@I don't know, is it true? She's your partner, and if you're town I would like to think she's not lying to you, right? As to what page it started on...I'm pretty sure you could go use Ctrl+F and the ISO feature as well as I could.

I don't think she is lying to me at all. But, I'm also not assuming that you are lying, at least not off the bat. There's a space somewhere between the two extremes of one's lying or the other is lying, where misinterpretation, ambiguity and confusion live.

Since she thinks you are scum, you'll be one of my ISO priorities anyway. I was hoping that you could point me in the direction of the stuff that you are concerned about.

- f

[ffullisade]

I'm curious to see where Amethyst Kitty's line of questioning is going. But not really. They are scum.

Quick, somebody (not Amethyst Kitty) name 5 reads that Amethyst Kitty has.

If you have to ISO, then you have to uncover 10 substantial reads.

Can't be done. Amethyst Kitty is a hydra double-posting nothingness.

---

I'm not bothering reading any Bacde posts until he can post something substantial and not just random braindead tunnelling bullshit.

---

ok so Red kills syr, but why does his team let him?

Oh, Seanald is scum too. He's been playing enough to not WIFOM a NK so strongly. Especially with such open leading questions.

Did anyone get a message from Syryana confirming his alignment? If not then I'm guessing that Seanald-scum or someone in his mafia did.

---

The question remains: What do you think of CTD's claim and its implications?

Didn't you just chastise Seanald for posting IIoA?

---

Just to understand. There are three neighborhoods?

CrashTextDummie - Slandaar
ThAdmiral - ???
Desperado - ???

And Bacde is claiming vig with no kill on the board? I smell bullshit on that one.

---

Though, actually, who was it who was actually telling me that OS's claims didn't make logical sense considering his eventual BP claim?
That person needs to sheep me more, but I want to call them town at this stage.
I sorta think it was KK though...so...meh.

Was me.
I've got a town-read on Haylen right now though. How would you feel if I started an Amethyst Kitty wagon?

I probably will soon, but I want to do some reading first. So probably Monday.

this post is so full of no

-m

[ffullisade]

Need more than that, Mollie.

he is going after sealderina

I read it again and there are really great points in there but

the curve of his thought process does not line up with a right angle for me

and I can't really explain it

also "dodging thor"

majiffy was telling me to leave him alone. so I was ignoring him/putting him off cos he was not in our crosshairs.

then he gorilla fisted into mine

that's the story

[ffullisade]

hi Thor,

I read through the rather painful combined ISO of you and B&B last night. I came away from it with two takeaways: bleeding eyes, and a distinct impression that most of your and Mollie's disputes were crap. And I saw that you tried to do something similar with Majiffy to the effect that he was somehow responsible for answering for the arguments (and lack of arguments) that you were having with Mollie.

Knowing our alignment and knowing that Mollie and I frequently remember very different things about games we played in the past and accuse each other of lying over it, I don't find your reactions in those matters to be scummy.

Mollie does find you scummy, but she knows your game. I do not.

I didn't come away from your ISO with a good grasp of your reads. Before day 2 started, I read the first 15 pages worth of the game. RR's early posts looked like what I've seen of his scum game, and I assigned you some towncred on the basis of your reactions to his posts. So, I think I'll want to put some weight on your reads once I understand them, despite knowing that in at least the ffullisade case you're wrong.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

1. accountable does not mean able to answer for, which is what you asked me to do, and I thought you asked Majiffy to as well, but god that iso I don't want to look for the posts again

2. I'm not seeing stuff I recognize as lies. But, I am remembering some heated cross-accusations over very different recollections of what happened in some games.

3. Heh. welcome to my world.

4. You've misunderstood. Your posts looked like town reaction to me. Not faction reaction. Now I have to figure out if that should change. I hate changing reads based on early thread interactions because I trust them. But, I wasn't in the thread to interact at that point and that lack can't be remediated. What I can bring to the table at this point is fresh eyes. Though fresh eyes don't stay fresh for long in a 100+ page day 1 read.

[ffullisade]

You wanted us dead? I'm shattered, Nero, simply shattered. I don't know how I can carry on.

Though the main reason I didn't commit to reading the whole thread before daybreak was that I didn't want to put the effort in unless we survived the night.

- f

[ffullisade]

That might be true if you were a replacement for her or I asked you to answer for Majify's actions.
You can still communicate with your hydra partner, last I checked.

Yep. but I can't and won't arbitrate an argument over old games I didn't play and don't give a shit about. If you think that's scummy, then go ahead and get us lynched.

speaiking of giving a shit...you're the guy who hates f-bombs, right? I'll try to abstain.

[ffullisade]

1. Nope. I don't think she's lying.

And I don't see how you get that from what I've said

. As far as tunnelling, where? She has a scum read on you but I don't see her making shouty posts about how you need to eat rope now or anything. When she and I synch up today, my ISO impressions will be on the agenda.

2. Noted.

oops.

- f

[ffullisade]

No, "the story" was that you intentionally didn't respond to me because word wars with scumThor = doomz!
Then you acted confused that I had issue with you not answering things because "you think you answered everything I asked"
Y'know, even though it was your strategy to deal with me by *not* answering everything I asked.

I didn't dodge you. I said if I missed something you asked it was probably cos majiffy was telling me to leave you alone. I asked you to ask me again what you think I did not answer and I can't remember if you even responded. whatever it is, there have been plenty of opportunities to clear up any confusion but instead you are trolleytracking on me while simultaneously accusing me of doing the same.

where is your vote? not on us iirc and it wasn't on us yesterday either. so if we are such a strong scumread then why no vote? why are you sheeping cephrir over one of your top scumreads? <-----this does not add up

I mean are you saying that cephrir is conftown and that his judgment is better than your own? cos that is what your actions point to only I am looking at cephrir's post and there is nothing in there that could possibly make someone with a *town read * on cephrir sheep their vote when they had a stronger scumspect in sight.

the problem is, is that your read lacks conviction cos you have yet to back it up with action. and whether you realise it or not (and I am sure you do) you are treating us as town <---- your actions point to this. placing a silly vote and saying that you were sheeping while trolleytracking on us and slaandar, helps give you cover so that you don't have to dispense other reads. <----no trail. <----scum motivation.

and this is why I think you are scum thor. your posts point to scum motivation. town thor makes good sense and you are simply not adding up in this game.

and tbh I am embarrassed for any town who is actually reading you as town right now.

[ffullisade]

1. You're a hydra with her, like Majiffy before you. You *are* accountable for what she says and does just as she is. I am not playing with two slots, I am playing with two players in one slot. If one of you drops a scumtell and one of you drops a towntell then I don't have two different reads, I have one combined read. I vastly don't understand either your or Majiffy's desperate desire to distance from your ruddy other hydra head.

that is some fancy tiptapping you are doing right there, is there moar? what you are trying to paint as "distancing" is called M-E-D-I-A-T-I-O-N and is giving me space to answer what is directed to me. stop trying to paint our hydra dissonance as scummy cos that is not a scumtell and you know it. also my hair is ruddy not my role pm.

2. I know my reactions aren't scummy, unless it's scummy to point out lies and say 'oi!' nowadays. I'm pretty sure it isn't.

oh I know how this one goes down. where is the lie?

3. She finds me scummy for 'knowing my game' and calling things I'm doing scummy...as long as she squints and turns her head sideways to justify how she hasn't seen me doing the exact things she's calling scummy when I'm town. Which, y'know, is kind of a big deal that she's doing that.

I find you scummy cos you are doing scummy things. don't try to pretend otherwise.

[ffullisade]

^ above posts were mine

[ffullisade]

^mollie

[ffullisade]

While...having as your strategy *not to discuss things with me*.
I don't see how these two stories mesh.
Explain?

I suppose if you want to twist "majiffy asked me to leave you alone so I did" into a "strategy" to not discuss things with you okay well then. I guess you were able to discern my supposed intent. where are you going to go with that?

Wait...I *wasn't* voting you yesterday?
...since when?
Because according to the Mod I was, and according to my memory I was, and according to you complaining that I voted you yesterday I was...so...whut?

your vote landed on os.

Are you serious? Because that blatantly adds up and is a normal occurrence.

this. so much of this. walk me through the process where sheeping someone whom you were suspicious of during the prior day and haven't given out a town read on should take precedence over your own strong scum read is a normal occurrence. cos I am just not seeing it.

1. Okay, so you guys are m-e-d-i-a-t-i-n-g and thus *are* discussing reads with each other and thus *should* be able to answer me when I ask one of you what's up with the other? Because that's what I'm doing.

2. Point to me calling you on dissonance. I have never once had an issue with you having two different reads. I have very much had issue with you having different stories, and moreso have mostly had that only with one head self-contained from the other. If you are using 'dissonance' to mean 'has issues with head A telling one version of how things happened and Head B having a different story' then *yes* I am calling you on dissonance, and am quite willing to back that play. But that is not the normal 'hydra dissonance' issue most people have, so I want to clarify that.

okay

We are actively discussing it currently, and I've hardly been shy about mentioning it - the issue of your question dodging and the reasons behind it. You have provided two different responses and both do not seem able to be true concurrently - therefore one is a lie and you are making answers up to defend yourself, and therefore are not town, and are scum.
That's how the tell works.

no. and more no. but let us walk through the responses that you think you are reading and how they are completely different and therefore could not be congruent with each other. what is bugging me and is making me really sticky with my fos on you is that you have replaced into a game for me before and know my responses don't always make sense to most people. that you are not town reading me is bothering me especially since it is based on weird reasoning; it is why I am not reading you as town.

You find me scummy for doing things that are;
1. Not scummy.
and
2. Even if we want to live in a universe where we decide they are scummy - I blatantly do them as town and defend them as normal, so they are null tells even then, and worse off you should be well aware I do them as town since you've seen me do this exact sort of thing before.

I have not seen you be super dumb and trolleytrack on town before, no. I have seen you parry, sidestep and do other things but not trolleytrack in a way that left you indefensible. so tell me why what you are doing is not scummy.

Don't try to pretend otherwise.

see this is where I wonder if you honestly think I am on the opposite scum team as you cos of the winky face. I am not scum and you will get no cred with our lynch if that is what you are angling for. cos we are town.

[ffullisade]

@Slandaar
@Mollie

Also, both of you have played with me enough, I suspect, to hear my rants about how useless one vote wagons are.
So...y'know, both of you can clarify why this is scummy of me some more. I'd love to hear it.

actually I have never heard this particular rant

[ffullisade]

I was actually just using your own answer, when you said that *was* your strategy - or are we now claiming I misunderstood when you said that?

no. what I am saying is that you are using certain words to ascribe an intention that I don't have. that is what I am saying

No...according to my memory, and the mod vote counts, my vote landed on Red Ryu...y'know, a scum player. And not on OS, whom i called town, and he was.
I also voted you.
So, now that we've proven that your read on me is based, at least partially, off two totally not true things...are you still scum reading me for this?

not for that

Explain how it's pro-scum play?

I thought I did.

Maybe I consider Cephir's push on Red Ryu to make him look more town in retrospect?
Maybe I'm curious to get a read on Haylen, a player I've admitted to having not read any of and who replaced into a rather blatant null/lurker slot?
Maybe I just want to start the push on a wagon to see what reactions I get to it.

okay. or *maybe* you are just scum. *maybe* it really is that simple.

Y'know, the usual *totally insane* things that no town would do, because it is so blatantly scummy play.

I'll at least admit your quick back off of at least this misrep attack on me is a nice moment - it's a shame it took you this long and you are still glomming onto so much of the rest, while not bothering to analyze for yourself the value of your read on me considering how you're clearly using wrong info, conclusions, and thoughts.

I think sometimes we can arrive at the right conclusions by following an incorrect internal process and have the process totally be wrong but still be right in the results that we draw.

are we going to argue about how mafia is a rational game now

Yes, and more yes (man, this is easy to counter with)
Here is the conversation as I understand it;

Thor: U iz dodgin' scum-gal!
Mollie: Dodgin' whut na0w?
Thor: Dodgin' mah queshtins!
Mollie: I am answered all ur kweshtins! Link to ones I not!
Thor: (giant honkin' wall of links)
Mollie: Oh...well...uh..y'see, I was *intentionally* not answerin'...cause...u scumz...wit scary mind powah and u eat me aliive in werd war!
Thor: ...den Y U say U answerin' if U *plannin' not answer? Why not just say 'I plannin' not answer!
Mollie: ... ...whut?
Thor: That is a lie, only one be true, can't coexist.
Mollie: Nuh-uh!
Thor: Yes.
Mollie: Y no coexist?

And now we're here.

okay

Here's the point - you have answered a lot of my questions with dodges. You have supplied a number of reasons for those dodges. Here's a quick list in (I believe) chronological order.
1. You were ignoring me.
2. Majiffy told you to back off of me.
3. You think you answered everything, but I should re-ask the ones you didn't answer...but you answered them all.
4. You were intentionally not answering me because that's some sort of anti-Thorscum strategy for you...even though it is a strategy you used as scum against town Thor in Audio mafia.

2 precludes 1

I think you should ask the ones you

feel

like I didn't answer, cos I

feel

like I answered them all.

I didn't ignore you in audio mafia what are you even talking about here. one minute you are saying that I WAS ALL OVER YOU and the next you are saying that I ignored you wth

3 and 4 don't gel very well. If you were intentionally not answering me about stuff, why would you act confused and want links to questions I had asked you? After all - you *know* you haven't answered things. That's the ENTIRE POINT OF WHAT YOU WERE DOING. Like, that's the goal you were going for, to not answer things. So why act confused by me taking issue with you not answering things?

I didn't want links I wanted you to restate your questions. and I think I *did* answer your questions you are the one who keeps pushing this dumb agenda. you know who pushes dumb agendas it is scum that is who

That suggests that either 3 or 4 is a lie.
If either of them are a lie then I think you're scum, because town you being honest about 4 wouldn't have said 3, and town you being honest about 3 wouldn't have tried to dodge again.

except I didn't dodge.

And that's the lie
And that's why they don't mesh together.
But, please, tell me what I'm missing here.

that it does not qualify as a lie.

So you're not reading me as town because I suspect you because you have bad logic...when I HAVE CAUGHT YOU AS SCUM BECAUSE OF YOUR BAD LOGIC IN THE PAST.
Yeah...tell me more.

cos you have had to defend my bad logic

Are you kidding me?
Remember Audio Mafia.
REMEMBER AUDIO MAFIA - I TRAINED YOU WITH A DIESEL ENGINE OF PURE TRAIN POWER STRAIGHT THROUGH THE HEART.

You are, functionally, committing the scumtell you're attributing to me now. Fake awareness of meta.
Except I actually have a reason not to take 'lack of logic' as a town tell from you.

And I also have a reason to take 'dodging and trying to avoid around things' as a scumtell from you.
What have you got?
Scum.

wrt the bold: there is a disconnect here. I didn't target you in audio for meta reasons, never went after you for them so what in the world are you even talking about

[ffullisade]

VOTE: thor

[ffullisade]

Ok whether or not Slandaar is right about Thor I am convinced that he is town

Do you have a read on Thor? Or is this something you don't want to talk about today?

Mollie and I talked about her reasons for thinking Thor is scum, and I buy into them, since I know they are coming from a town perspective and she has a hell of a lot more experience playing with Thor than I do.

I could still go for a Nacho lynch personally. Reading through that mass claim discussion did not give me a happy this-is-town-nacho vibe at all.

there are a ton of other players to catch up on, so exactly what my day 2 lynch priority should be is a little up in the air until I'm fully caught up. I have another game that's entered its final hours before nightfall and it's taking up most of my mafia-time right now.

@Thor

while I'm getting up to speed, I'll probably ignore your day 2 posts for now unless you make it clear enough that you are addressing something to the fferyllt head of ffullisade that I can spot it as I exercise the scroll wheel on those walls. Or better yet...make it a short post!

- f

[ffullisade]

hi thor

hi

let's talk. lets get real close.

I am not going to do any wall warring with you. I am going to play in the style that I am most comfortable with cos otherwise we will on for another 20 pages. all you are doing is twisting everything I say to suit your personal narrative and it is starting to get very annoying so stop doing that.

so, your case on me is basically that my story is inconsistent. is inconsistency a scumtell of mine? cos you spent an awful lot of time defending me in this game when you replaced in:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24103

for doing that as town when adam was all and hot bothered to get me lynched. he did in that game the exact same thing that a you are doing in

this

game.

oh and dodging? didn't you try this crap in the cult game? why I do believe you did. this is so textbook it isn't funny, cos voided did in that game what bulb is doing in this one which is to support your crappy "dodging" case on me. you made it up in that game and you are making it up in this one.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=24690

so will you look at that. I just proved that you have town meta on me for doing what you are accusing me of so wat do you think that.

POW!

your meta case sucks and I think you know it. you are not isoing me or even bothering to try to discern my alignment. you are doing the very same thing you did in the cult game. <----- this is why I think you are scum.

eta, xpost:

no thor this is what happened.
mollie foses thor.
mollie pursues her read

while also looking elsewhere

.

thor omguses mollie

.
thor pursues mollie and slaandy to the exclusion of others in the game, not offering any other reads.
thor blatantly admits to not reading pages even though it could impact his read on us.
here we are today.

^^^ this is what happened.

you know I don't think that I am the one who is looking uber scummy here.

[ffullisade]

^ mollie

[ffullisade]

bc, will probably sheep your vote but I do not want thez speedlynched I would like for fery to be given enough time to get her feet in the game. I waffle on nacho, cureently I am back to scumreading him for a couple of meta reasons other than what I have already said.

oh and speaking of dodging questions I asked thor what he thought about my meta case on nacho and I don't think he responded. pot meet kettle.

also why are you scumreading us cephrir? you had us as town yesterday

[ffullisade]

Could you explain her reasoning as regards Audio Mafia?
She is refusing to do it for me, but I'm guessing when she explained it to you and how I was wrong so you could understand - could you restate what she said to you about it so *I* can understand?

This audio game thing is part of your case on her. correct?

- fery

[ffullisade]

Could you explain her reasoning as regards Audio Mafia?
She is refusing to do it for me, but I'm guessing when she explained it to you and how I was wrong so you could understand - could you restate what she said to you about it so *I* can understand?

This audio game thing is part of your case on her. correct?

- fery

That would be a point I have brought up repeatedly and just asked you about before you now have asked me if that's what I was asking you about.

I just wanted to clarify because iirc we misunderstood each other over somethig else. or maybe it's me who misunderstood you.

I haven't really discussed your case on mollie with her. Our convo about you was more about catching me up with her case on you.

I'm logged into this account for a bit, but I am going to have to go back to my near-nightfall game pretty soon. I'll check to see if you have something else for me when I'm back on this account.

btw I'm not a he.

- fery

[ffullisade]

The relevant points are as follows;

Thor calls Mollie out on being scummy.
She complains that I'm misrepping her by changing the order of how she did things (I'm not even sure if I did or didn't, to be honest)
I say the order doesn't matter, but explain to me how that's a scumtell.
She says the order does matter.
I ask 'how'?
She says she already answered the question.
I point out that she hasn't.
She tries to act like she has, and keeps dancing around as I try to force her to explain it, even starting up other lies and arguments to prevent having to revist the past.

Sound familiar to...y'know...anything that has happened here today?
Especially with her saying I don't tunnel as town?

Take your time.

hmm

This game is so big, so I believe your take on the story, but can you link me to the relevant posts?

this is interesting

Maybe majiffy was coaching mollie in their QT?

he did try to make it seem like he wasn't reading mollie AT ALL, and he kept emphasizing that

he didn't keep emphasizing it and ftr that was probably majiffy's subtle little way of trolling me he does that a lot.

also we do not use a qt we discuss everything on gchat same with fery

if you start eating paranoia flakes on me now we will probably lose for sure and look at who is scum do you see anyone else with the balls to go after them? no. they put them in a jar for the game cos no one but you and slaandy are showing any.

[ffullisade]

also why are you scumreading us cephrir? you had us as town yesterday

Actually, I didn't. I had Majiffy as scum early, then your posts brought it up to "null, maybe nullscum" and your argument with Thor (mainly the contradiction point) has brought it back down. Looking through my ISO for where I said you were town (because I didn't say it, I just said "mollie's posts are depressingly town" which isn't the same thing), I did notice that I thought Thor wasn't doing so well at the beginning. I suppose it's possible arguing with Thor for this long just isn't possible to do without looking bad. But the story change is pretty bad, so I think I'm just going to apply that to Slandaar.

Obviously I'm not completely sold on this one, that's why I'm still voting Haylen.

In other news 3072 does sound kind of like BS.

you said I was "depressingly town" and you treated me like town for most of the day round and today you have me as your top scum read along with 1 other person there is no progression of your read so you need to explain.

did you read my big long post to thor about why his case on us is bs? you probably should

[ffullisade]

Awesome!
...just don't tell Majiffy, he may or may not have a beard bigger than mine...

lol

you always make me laugh. I swear you are the biggest troll on ms but you are so subtle about it no one knows you are doing it.

you are a zen troll.

lets get sweaty

Did he now?
Here's a quote from me in that game "defending" you...

Congrats, you proved she doesn't have flawless logic in her scumtells (shock - she plays emotionally) and have also proved that she can be flustered.
I would submit she does that less as scum - go check out this game: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/9GN4yrhCaUvR
Note that I catch her with bad logic...and she REFUSES TO DISCUSS IT. (relevant stuff is around halfway through Day 1 if you track down the Day 1 archive audio, or you can listen to Day 2 where I'm discussing it with her)
That's rather different than what she did here, innit?
Wonder why...

except that he was accusing me of doing the same thing that you are.

Oh...wait...look at that...I clearly *didn't* think you were acting like you did in Audio Mafia.
And yet...here I am...saying that you ARE acting like you did in Audio Mafia.
YOU GOT ME IN A LIE!...oh...wait...wait, no, it's that other thing, the thing where you actually just strengthened my position.

except you didn't say anything of the like! you subbed in for me as a favour and knew what my alignment was cos we had the same role pm. quit being obtuse thor. and I didn't strengthen anything except your scummy little meta case on me which falls apart when confronted by truth.

you are saying I dodged...when I don't believe I dodged. the post you pointed to were a couple of questions interspersed with a bunch of rhetoric where you were not interested in sorting out our alignment. I answered your questions and now you are trying to push this

new

narrative cos your original argument doesn't really have weight despite the window dressing.

TAKE THAT!

Hurm, ad let's look at this one - Oh, look, I raised the issue of you dodging...BEFORE I WAS RECRUITED BY CULT.

so you are acknowledging that you cannot read me based on meta? thanks buddy!

Also, I never voted you over it at any point. i discusse dit as bad and silly.
Much like I did in this game - except in this game your dodge was combined with scummy lying.
Like in Audio Mafia.
Making it different.
And vote worthy.

that I also did in cult game. I don't think I am dodging and I didn't think I was in the cult game either mebbe you just have a hard time understanding me.

what I am wondering is why you are blatantly ignoring the town meta you have on me in favour of something you should be reading as a null tell.

1. You 'FOS' really isn't - this is a stretch of reality.

yes it is and it is not a stretch. all someone has to do is iso me it is right there you should try it some time. oh wait, you would have to be town in order to do that since you would also have to read some posts that you flat out said you were not reading. <----points for scum motivation!!!!

2. Well...Majiffy did, yes.

lookit dis

I had a larger pool than majiffy. I went after nacho <---- in a big way, oh hai remember that question I asked you several pages ago

thor meet reality, reality meet thor. apparently you both are strangers.

3. My attack on you is a legit one, with reasoning, so it's, again, a stretch to call it OMGUS. Do you even understand why that tell is scummy? It's not just about attacking someone who attacks you.

yes I do. the stickiness of yours looks scummy as hell at this point

4. This is provably false. We even just got done discussing my Ref Ryu votes, much less the rest.

yeah a vote that was going nowhere lemme guess your vote on ryu somehow makes you more town.

you did nothing to push that case.

5. This is true, what did you do during those pages I should look at?

As to what page it started on...I'm pretty sure you could go use Ctrl+F and the ISO feature as well as I could.

6. This is also true. Except you should add 'with Mollie, as usual, twisting reality - and then claiming someone else is twisting reality.' Like we've been doing.

except that isn't what I am doing that is what you are doing as well as twisting my words

also when I say "okay" it doesn't mean I am agreeing with you it means okay that is where you stand I disagree but w/e.

I try not to agrue with scum cos all it does is bog down the thread and give their teammates room to hide.

[ffullisade]

GODDAMMIT HOW DID I MESS UP THOSE QUOTES

<<< If I knew the answer to that, I'd have fixed them already, but I can't figure it out, either. >>>

[ffullisade]

She lies about things she's done to avoid explaining them and fakes emotional breakdowns as town?
Links to any examples?

except I didn't

lie

about anything and I am not having a breakdown lol. nor did I have a fake breakdown in audio,

YOU

were the one that had a breakdown with your sputtering and aTeing all over the place. it wasn't quite a meltdown but it was damn close.

[ffullisade]

I haven't really discussed your case on mollie with her. Our convo about you was more about catching me up with her case on you.

Did she explain my hypocrisy to you?
She hasn't done that yet either. She said I did it, then basically refused to explain how, where, or why.

no, I did explain it.

how about that iso....

[ffullisade]

also thor, thor thor thor thor

how could you know if I answered you or not if you just admitted in post #3081 that you did not read a bunch of pages, lol.

[ffullisade]

The last two pages of this thread are awesome.

mollie may change it back, though.

VOTE: Thezmon

bacde, now you can't say I've never sheeped you.

love,

fery

[ffullisade]

Nacho, Bacde where is the town core?

- f

[ffullisade]

AA9: Big long readpost with no mention of RR into vote RR seems weirder now but she's still town.

No mention of RR? Are you kidding, RR is the first person I have voted after my catch up. I said she is SCUM, please ISO me again and tell if you don't find it. I was so sure on RR and she completely ignored my accusations. Infact I supported khan's read on RR to lynch RedRyu yesterday...

The worst part of this game is Bcade who don't stop posting fluff.... and i am not suprised not everone reading everyone's post here.

how do you know ryu is a she I thaought it was a guy aren't supposed to assume everyone on the interwebz is a guy or something

also bc is not even remotely fluffposting

khan don't get your granny panties in a twist. gut tells me your town I am just trying to solidify the read through interaction

@ nero

omg majiffy did not "reign me in" except with thor and that has more to do with his relationship with thor. you are doing a serious misrep here cos I posted a helluva lot more than majiffy. you would have to be an imbecile to not be town reading me right now

in other news nacho is not getting as close to me as I would like and I agree with bc in that if you can spot town nacho early and strong he is town but he isn't so

but then I start to waffle again

[ffullisade]

Firstly, my post has nothing to do with what you said in the first statement. Try again.

Secondly... umm... yeah. useless town and scum can be rather synonymous to one another.

not wrt wc. scum love "useless town" lynches

1. Nacho didn't even really tunnel him after the fiasco at the beginning of the day. And sure you can make it seem worse now after you've seen the flip. Otherwise it's a poor point.

wat is this I MEAN WHAT IS THIS

2. Just because you don't agree quite as much with his reads doesn't necessarily make them bad. However, I do know that I didn't like a lot of his reads.

town moves in herds. nacho is very good at finding the herd

3. But he did believe in the reads that he did push. Did you read his posts or submit to confirmation bias?

^smoke and mirrors

4. Go ahead and make that point. That's only speculation. The fact that I don't think he's scum, however, can't even prove that we are "obviously scumbuddies" without a flip.

^smells like scum desperation

When did I ever object that I didn't like those two points? I don't think you see the picture here. I said you had two good points, yes, but you have to look at the big picture. When your case is riddled with as much meta as yours was, it lacks that credibility in my eyes. I didn't vote for him because I read your meta read, and then I read his posts, and confirmed he was town. Notice when I voted OS, I supplied what another had as a summation of a case against him which had at least 5 pretty solid points.

meta is a beautiful thing. my case on nacho isn't about pattern matching at all it is knowing how he thinks and his basic approach to mafia.

so far I am waffling like hell but leaning scummy

[ffullisade]

^actual scum

Bacde and I have a very complicated relationship.

yessssssss

do you see it now

[ffullisade]

Nacho, Bacde where is the town core?

- f

[ffullisade]

What prevented it from coming together on day 1?

- f

[ffullisade]

ok.

so it wasn't like the formation process was actively hindered?

CTD should be totally in it. Who else?

- f

[ffullisade]

so mollie tells me that CTD was suspicious on day 1. but reading his outing his neighbor yesterday that looked totally town. paranoid as fuck then major facepalm.

- f

[ffullisade]

Slandar, do you think that the scum teams were unaware that there were two teams on day 1?

- f

[ffullisade]

No.

So you think bacde's change in stance is about *who* flipped blue, not that a blue flipped?

RR looked scummy to me from really early - how he handled his pre-rsv/rsv reaction test. It would be odd if the red team didn't have him down as a potential opposite number on day 1.

- f

[ffullisade]

No, that's not what I'm saying and I'm probably being too indirect but that's kinda how I tackle something that I don't understand - work through the stuff that is easily eliminated. Being more direct, what is it about RR's flip that makes bacde's stance change look scummy?

- f

[ffullisade]

It would be odd if the red team didn't have him down as a potential opposite number on day 1.

What is the point of this if what I said was wrong?

The various "what they might do"'s are pretty much all wifom. But it comes down to grabbing some towncred early, or not confirming multiball as long as possible.

[ffullisade]

True. He looked obvious to me when I read the first 15 or so pages of the game during the night phase. Since then, I've mostly focused on isos and picking B&B's game.

I think that *I* would have had him down as scum on day 1, though. And I have this bias that what I think is obvious is actually obvious. And I should know better, given prior games. :/

- f

[ffullisade]

but, as far as missing the point, no I have taken your point on board enough that I'm going to explore some of bacde's interactions.

- f

[ffullisade]

Re the claim, I'm skeptical. Doies it make sense that universal backup would apply to a relatively weak or limited role?

Nacho, Bacde where is the town core?

- f

it's slowly coming together
he won't be able to resist me forever, and i'm working on what the hell thor is doing, and he's treating me sort of weird so far.
CTD is inactive, Desp is in...

Moliie agrees about Desp.

I've never played with Kublai Khan before, but his no-nonsense approach seems town to me.

@CTD what are your thoughts about these players? slandaar, desp, bacde, nacho, KK? Who are you reading as strongly town atm?

Same question to Desp.

- f

[ffullisade]

I am pretty sure Mollie has Cephrir as town, unless something has recently changed her mind. Which I doubt.

- f

[ffullisade]

More specifically, looking back at fullisade's ISO, the sketchiest thing is fery coming in and talking about having read Red Ryu as scum off the first few pages of the game. The flip happened, it's not exactly going out on a limb to note a scum read there. The other player she mentions having a read on is Nachomamma8. If the evolution of events was that she read the beginning of the game over night phase and saw Red Ryu and Nacho as scummy, then saw one of them flip scum where (as far as I can tell) her reads on them aren't related, I'd expect to see a decent amount of confidence in the Nacho read. Instead there's not a lot of pushing there, with more recent posts looking to relate to Nachomamma8 as town if I'm reading right. That could be the pirate mollie head though.

I was psyched to go after RR if we were alive on day 2. I'm glad he was NKed, but reading the day 2 opener was like stepping an unexpected step at the bottom of a stairwell. I feel like there will be some day 1 interactions with him that could be subtly enlightening. I'm still looking for them.

Mollie and I are both a little conflicted about Nacho. One of my goals today is to figure him out, and the way I manage that is by direct interaction.

My other goal is to help establish a town core, whether we are part of it or not. And figuring out Nacho and the Nacho/Bacde thing is key to that IMO.

This bandwagon is probably going to mess with my goals for day 2 actually. But, since my main goal is to lynch scum, I'm happy with how the bandwagon's going.

- ffullisade

[ffullisade]

khan don't get your granny panties in a twist. gut tells me your town I am just trying to solidify the read through interaction

I'm feeling dismissed when I'm pretty sure I asked you a legit question. Explain the previous thing, then explain the "solidify the read" thing. Also, while you're at it, explain the "Thor665 said there will be 3 to 4nks" thing you said back in post 1887 that you never explained.

not wrt wc. scum love "useless town" lynches

Wait, why are you voting thezmon221?

thezmon221 made it a point to not vote Bacde and is drawing the distinction between useless town and scum. If you truly believe that scum love useless town lynches, then shouldn't you be thinking thezmon221 is town because he is not trying to push a Bacde = scum argument?

Your questions are addressed to Mollie's posts so I'm not going to try to answer them in entirety. Our vote on thezmon was my idea. Mollie wasn't around at the time, but I felt pretty confident it's the right thing to do. I'm trusting Bacde is correct. Since then, Mollie has indicated to me that she's ok with it, so we're sticking with this vote. She's aware of the role claim and the issues around it.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

no one better fucking hammer until I get my goddamn thoughts out there and respond

[ffullisade]

I'm having some computer issues, so I'll be posting from a library for the foreseeable future. I only have 3 hrs. a day here to split between 3 games and whatever other work I have, and only on weekdays. I'll do my best to catch up, but I'll probably be behind for awhile, so don't get mad at me if I haven't answered your question yet, as I'm probably not to that point in the game.

I will be honest I think you should replace out

With that out of the way, let's begins:

So you're reading him as scum, because he won't read you as town? That is horribad logic and is also called OMGUS.

holy crap batman do you know how much of an idiotic post this is. thor OMGUSed us cos I jumped on him first when he was fine with majiffy like 5 million pages ago. how about you don't use terminology that you obviously don't know the definition of.

This is weird and came out of nowhere. Why would you even think that Thor would get towncred by coming after you, or that even he would think that? Obviously you're playing a different game if you think this makes sense. This feels like some desperate AtE, rather than a point against Thor.

this pandering is nauseating and the logic and angle of this refutation is terrible. it is multi-ball and on this site scum have this idea that by lynching the other team they gain town cred jesus christ. there is no "desperate aTe cos I did not aTe you dummy.

will discuss it with fery but I seriously doubt you are town and most likely the one who nked syrlacious since he would be the one least likely to put up with you bullshit.

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE: thez

the vote will go back but I don't trust some you dummies not to quick hammer

[ffullisade]

Eh, everyone's pretty much been babbling about it without giving a lot of reasons since I argued with B&B 115 pages ago.

I'm a really easy and uncontroversial scumread to have. Need someone to pad your scumlist? Why not Cephrir?

I had you as town ages ago plz don't make me lose it

majiffy had you as scum but generally his d1 reads suck. I still think he is a fantastic player and I love him

[ffullisade]

CTD should be totally in it. Who else?

om the hydra, but that was mostly for day 1
cephrir
bulba
haylen
KK
AA x10

no to bulba

no to arc

see this is why I get suspicious of you. that list is terrible for a town core. there would be no cohesion at all and more than anything else in a multi-ball game town would need cohesion.

cephrir and khan yes, but bulba should not be a town read of yours his suck-ups are pretty freaking obvious so I read him as scum unless he is just a natural born sycophant which may very well be the case and if it is then he defo should not be in a core group since he will approach the game in a confirmation bias kind of way. but I am going to give him credit and just call him scum

[ffullisade]

also why in the world do you like haylen and arc for town

[ffullisade]

@Thor665, you asked about my take on the BatB-ffullisade slot a while ago. I'm pretty certain I haven't played a game where Majiffy or pirate mollie was scum, and from a meta POV they seem(ed) similar to their respective town play. In terms of the actual arguments, notably where you interact with the hydra, there seem to be some legit views there getting lost amid a burning desire to be right on all sides. Kind of what I'm getting out of a lot of you and Slandaar going back and forth, actually. Lots of focus on whose narrative to believe and less focus on whether the differences of interpretation or remembering facts is scummy or not. That's my overall impression, although I freely admit that I stopped reading the BatB hydra near the end of the day last day phase when things got hostile.

More specifically, looking back at fullisade's ISO, the sketchiest thing is fery coming in and talking about having read Red Ryu as scum off the first few pages of the game. The flip happened, it's not exactly going out on a limb to note a scum read there. The other player she mentions having a read on is Nachomamma8. If the evolution of events was that she read the beginning of the game over night phase and saw Red Ryu and Nacho as scummy, then saw one of them flip scum where (as far as I can tell) her reads on them aren't related, I'd expect to see a decent amount of confidence in the Nacho read. Instead there's not a lot of pushing there, with more recent posts looking to relate to Nachomamma8 as town if I'm reading right. That could be the pirate mollie head though.

Otherwise I don't have any reason to think ffullisade is scum right now.

WRT Bacde's case for thazmon221 being scum:

What kind of posts are you reading? I never implied you're scum. I think you're delusional and useless town.

YES!

Town, I saved you. Thank me later. LOL! this is great

He just literally lied because he can't keep track of his opinions that are displayed in his posts. Lets look at this gem right here:

In post 3044, thezmon221 wrote:1) You know who doesn't have reads that change after flips (especially two flips)? Scum. Scum doesn't need to change their reads. Your case on Nacho is exactly the same as it was D1: Crap.


This is Thezmon's argument:

1) Bacde does A
2) Scum do A

3 (assumption) Town is much less likely to do A

4) (inference/implication) Bacde is scum

Yet he denies it.

Sheep Bacde. Scumhunting made easy.

No, not really. I think you're town, though dumb and useless. I always have, and quite possibly will for a while. The fact that I presented an action to you and clearly stated that scum did it was to garner interest from you, as well as to see where your motivations lie since you're stubborn. You see, it's been debated, even here in this thread, that dumb/useless town can be synonymous with scum. It's a gray area, so I'm trying to discern between the two and make sure I am on the correct side of the spectrum.

Irrespective of thazmon221's claim, which I don't entirely swallow, Bacde, you're completely ruling out any type of reaction test being used there? Because it seems to me that if you want to get someone's attention, you're more likely to succeed if you suggest you think they're outright scum rather than anti-town.

thazmon221, on the other hand, why didn't you use your vote to pressure Bacde in that situation, since it seems like he was doing something you found scummy?

There are ways to paint me as scum, but this isn't one of them. The point absolutely remains, the point being that if thez was actually a Universal Backup, one way or another, he should have been notified that he is now backing something up, which doesn't seem to have occurred. If you think I legitimately believe thez to be scum, what does it matter how I push him unless you want to argue that it's not genuine? (Which you're not)

Cephrir, why do you say that thazmon221 isn't activated as a back-up to a dead non-VT, specifically the first one killed?

^scum

scum scum scum scum

penguin person you made a post like this similar to the one you made in rach's game. I overlooked it cos frankly I was simply grateful that I was not the only girl in the game. I am not overlooking it this time.

[ffullisade]

I'm feeling dismissed when I'm pretty sure I asked you a legit question. Explain the previous thing, then explain the "solidify the read" thing. Also, while you're at it, explain the "Thor665 said there will be 3 to 4nks" thing you said back in post 1887 that you never explained.

you probably did ask a legit question what was it again

I will push on my town reads in order to solidify my read on them as town. <-----why exactly did I have to explain that, it may help me in my communications with other players on this site cos I feel like it should be obvious and needs no explaining.

re thor: I told you I canna find what I was looking for so I wondered if he was the one who said it in the first place.

Wait, why are you voting thezmon221?

this is where you start to feel really weird to me. <-----if you are town then the paranoia starts here

thezmon221 made it a point to not vote Bacde and is drawing the distinction between useless town and scum. If you truly believe that scum love useless town lynches, then shouldn't you be thinking thezmon221 is town because he is not trying to push a Bacde = scum argument?

honestly I have no idea what you are saying here cos it doesn't make sense. it has to do with that whole correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation thing I suppose. like I really don't get your thought processes here

[ffullisade]

also I have strong meta reasons to think ak might actually be town.

I waffle on them

hard

but if I close my eyes I cannot feel them being anything other than town and that is taking everything in.

okay I am done with my catch-up posts now. we can go back to lynching thez now cos his claim is super duper funny but I wanna give some time for people to respond, namely thor cos the way that other peeps are chiming in our spat makes squirrelly.

wait, @ bc

I had something I wanted to say to you but I forget. say something, it might make me remember

[ffullisade]

Mollie and I are both a little conflicted about Nacho. One of my goals today is to figure him out, and the way I manage that is by direct interaction.

My other goal is to help establish a town core, whether we are part of it or not. And figuring out Nacho and the Nacho/Bacde thing is key to that IMO.

Nacho refuses to interact with me directly this game (except when he demands I sheep his reads even though he admits his reads are bad)

its one of the reasons that I'm over 9000% sure that he's scum

I refuse to be a part of any town core that has nacho in it

I get this. His reads are bad according to Mollie, too. But...you know that nacho being town doesn't guarantee his reads are 100% good as well as I do. Probably better than I do.

The not interacting directly is more of an issue IMO.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

Who are you talking to, Cephrir?

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

interesting

[ffullisade]

@Nacho Yeah, I can see that.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

pa is also town as shit

Mollie was thinking otherwise.

When you have time, it would be good to talk through this read.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

oh hai Bacde!

Who else would you want in the town core?

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

Who else would you want in the town core?

How in the world does it help to push this question right before night instead of waiting for the next day?

Because we've been stalled for several hours. Might as well make use of the time. Because figuring that out was one of my goals this game day. Because Bacde asked me what I wanted to talk about. And because it's something for town players to think about overnight.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

Finish him fulli none no more of your silly questions

hammer is incoming. Mollie has something to post first.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

It's things like this which make me scumread you.
You don't have a scumread on me that's strong enough for you to vote me.
But it is strong enough to declare other people town when I vote them.

Bahzinga

this is the towniest that you have sounded all game.

but I like nero's vote cos the only player that rena asked about with her entrance was me specifically and yet she did nothing with that what you gave her which tbh, was not much, you actually tried with thor.

speaking of thor holy hell

[ffullisade]

Need to Lynch

Nachomamma8

Willing to Lynch

Haylen
AA9
ThAd

Do you think Peregrine is town? I'm confused by your having ThAd on this list.

If I can sort Nacho, I'll know how I feel about the rest of your list.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

Ffullisade: Mollie dodged Thor at the end of d1 and throughout d2. She then lied about it. Thor was putting them under a lot of pressure, and I actually think they are responsible for the Thor kill, as they were only 1 of 2 who gained from his death.

I kinda think that Thor's kill might have been meant to leave that impression, though there are other possibilities.

- fferyllt

[ffullisade]

Hey bacde, who did you target last night, as vig?

I'm actually not vig, I was trying to draw the nightkill

I'm a reflexive night-vengeful townie

I don't believe you. Only idiot scum would target Thor over you.

it has been my experience that when a player comments on the intelligence of the scumteam, they are usually scum. this is one of the most reliable tells I have ever had. I have seen town drop it in a lateral way and need some games to be completed to see how reliable the tell is when applied laterally but this is a very direct representation of that tell and as soon as I get the okay from fery we are going to vote you.

[ffullisade]

Bahzinga

this is the towniest that you have sounded all game.

no, that's a scum claim from Nacho

.

I vote scumHaylen in 3385.

Nacho votes me 'cause we are "Both are generally solid votes." + it means that his "scum read" on Thad wasn't very strong and likely made up 'cause there was no reason to switch.

He then says "You don't have a scumread on me that's strong enough for you to vote me."

Which is totally untrue 'cause day 1 was voting him and day 2 Thez was outted scum so meh.

I then tell him that I'm voting another scum read.

The Haylen scumread which I never had?

This quote has absolutely nothing to do with anything and isn't a valid response. + it contradicts 3388. Why would he call Rena a solid vote if he didn't have a scum read?

I read back over the start of day and thought about it, and yeah I can see nacho being rena's partner. I missed that post by rena before and nero I am not kidding, it really is a reliable tell. she is even fitting the "women tend to say something negative about the scum team" meta of the tell.

if rena flips scum I would look at nacho cos of the way she asked him about my specific meta and he gave like 2 sentences when I gave him a damn soliloquy.

[ffullisade]

Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

It's things like this which make me scumread you.
You don't have a scumread on me that's strong enough for you to vote me.
But it is strong enough to declare other people town when I vote them.

Bahzinga

this is the towniest that you have sounded all game.

but I like nero's vote cos the only player that rena asked about with her entrance was me specifically and yet she did nothing with that what you gave her which tbh, was not much, you actually tried with thor.

speaking of thor holy hell

oh my god you are scratching and clawing to find reasons to call nacho town

look, I want him to be town too

but he's not

lol, it is true, I really want him to be town. and yeah I can see how he might not be.

[ffullisade]

Ffullisade: Mollie dodged Thor at the end of d1 and throughout d2. She then lied about it. Thor was putting them under a lot of pressure, and I actually think they are responsible for the Thor kill, as they were only 1 of 2 who gained from his death.

I kinda think that Thor's kill might have been meant to leave that impression, though there are other possibilities.

- fferyllt

not to mention I never dodged thor.

thor has a history of accusing me of dodging when I actually haven't he just does not comprehend/like my answers and there is always some sad fanboy around who will support him on it.

he linked a post of what questions he wanted answered, I answered them, they were contained in the pages he said he did not read and then he pulls a question of his hat that he asked me way earlier that was not contained in the post that he linked. now that I have a baseline that cranky, lazy thor might be town, I probably will not go after him for those reasons in the future.

you are way off in your reads if your town. your being pretty paranoid with faulty reasoning <-----usually a town tell so I am leeaving you alone cos you are not in my crosshairs and cos your premise is based on things that did not actually happen.

[ffullisade]

I have been given the okay by fery and

VOTE: rena

I think if she flips scum then I think nacho very well might her partner.

[ffullisade]

Asking for a case isn't scummy, but I could do without the OMGUS that came with it.

1) Why me = fry me
2) She wasn't asking for a case
3) True that

If I had no clue why Mollie has you in her town pile this post would make explanations unnecessary.

- f

[ffullisade]

the ffullisade hydra has come to a very important agreement.

we are in mafia love with desperado.

in other news

@ I gave a case. you could comment on that

[ffullisade]

^ that was to rena

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE: Rena

Will be talking to Mollie soonish.

- f

[ffullisade]

bacccdddeeeeee

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

What's the scum motivation for bacde to keep pushing on a claimed PR?

- f

[ffullisade]

Vote: Amethyst Kitty

Last we talked, Mollie thinks your last two votes are town. I'm not sure what she thinks of PeregrineV.

- f

[ffullisade]

139:

he linked a post of what questions he wanted answered, I answered them

Quote please.

To be honest,

I don't have the time to sift through the ISOs of a 100+ page game just to find what you may or may not have been talking about. Since you brought it up, the burden of proof lies on you to provide the quote for me to respond to, not to make a comment about it and expect me to do all the work for you

. If you think my attack is weak, then you need to actually argue why it's weak and put in the effort to do so, starting with this quote.

[ffullisade]

I am up to here catching up apparently a lot has happened

[ffullisade]

it has been my experience that when a player comments on the intelligence of the scumteam, they are usually scum. this is one of the most reliable tells I have ever had. I have seen town drop it in a lateral way and need some games to be completed to see how reliable the tell is when applied laterally but this is a very direct representation of that tell and as soon as I get the okay from fery we are going to vote you.

i think that players who prefer scum more are more likely to comment on how stupid the scumteam is
i also think it's a better tell under pressure because it's a subtle "oh, I'm not so stupid that I would do a kill THAT bad!"
and it also doesn't really work in multiball
since they are distancing themselves from one team, but not the other
sooo

I know at least 2 players who drop this tell on a regular basis and neither of them like playing scum and it isn't when they are under pressure. I mean I dropped it in my first scum game here, the one I subbed into, when I went back and iso-ed myself I thought that is what voided saw but when I asked what he saw he never mentioned it. not that he gave me a lot anyways. thad was in that game but I think he had already been lynched by then.

so you refutation is crap

and you are making bi-polar as hell in this game about you in this game

like I am going to need therapy

[ffullisade]

Actually, this makes sense. Red Ryu was a ninja. We were bound to have either a watcher or a tracker.

@Rena: Did anybody visit Om n1 or Bacde n2?

didn't she say "nothing of interest happen"?

holy shit

you are role-fishing like a mofo

if you guys let this pass you are all on my list.

I am ready to slap a vote on this but will talk to fery first

nacho if you are town look at this shit. look at it.

[ffullisade]

people I want to hear from about rena's claim:

ak
nero
bc
slandy

^ were all in gears where messiah claimed watcher and sailed to endgame

also these people:

nero
perv

^ these 2 were in posh where the traitor IaI heavily breadcrumbed starting in his very first post. they look a lot like rena's I mean I would be worried that scum would up on it and nk me for sure.

talking things out with fery

[ffullisade]

I know at least 2 players who drop this tell on a regular basis and neither of them like playing scum

EXACTLY

erm...what you are agreeing with exactly? I mean you said you think it comes from players who like to play scum and I am saying it does not matter. I have even seen praying do it and she loves to play scum.

[ffullisade]

and you are making bi-polar as hell in this game about you in this game

like I am going to need therapy

first step is accepting that the problem is you and not me
second step is therapy

nacho if you are town look at this shit. look at it.

ummmmmmm
i don't think it's really rolefishing
considering if he was rolefishing, he would've checked to see if rena claimed people targetting bacde before he asked her about it
stupid question though

she quoted her breadcrumb in the previous post so why would he need to check

[ffullisade]

yanno this kind of reminds me of there is new scum in town game where fe was blatantly role-fishing on like p8 or something and noooooooby wanted to talk about that and mala tried to stop the convo it would not have outed any specials it would have outed scum and then what did fe flip oh my wasn't it scum.

rena, why would you give a townred on omd when all it shows is who would have visited him not whether or not he did anything. do you have other reasons for putting omd as town? if so what are they?

[ffullisade]

^ top was directed to nacho

[ffullisade]

I'm not exactly why Mara had Rena town, but the breadcrumb could have been a potential reason

. I believe it because she crumbed the way I would have if I had the role. Also there's the fact scum wouldn't crumb incase they were caught out. It's risky for a fake claim because of an easy counter claim.

I have to agree with Mollie that there's a chance Rena could be on the other scum team, but Mollie there's an easy way to avoid this.. If she lasts almost to LyLo lynch her ass because yes she's likely mafia. That's what kept brining up the red flags on Messiah to me. (I was hoping Nero or Mac - would have pointed that out - but no)

Slandaar -

So because Thor flipped town it gives you the right to 180 your reads without explanation. Your tunneling is unbelievable against Thor D1/2 and reminds me of your scum tunneling on me in GoW.. I forgot how badly you tunneled there until I had to get a link from your ISO.

Nacho -

Explain your vote, kkthxbai.

wrt the bold: wouldn't mara have told you that she saw a breadcrumb cos I would think she would.

also slaandy trolleytracks regardless of alignment, he trolleytracked on me in titanium but he made sense. he did not make sense when he trolleytracked on us in the gears game that is why I thought he was scum. it is a null tell for him

[ffullisade]

yanno this kind of reminds me of there is new scum in town game where fe was blatantly role-fishing on like p8 or something and noooooooby wanted to talk about that and mala tried to stop the convo it would not have outed any specials it would have outed scum and then what did fe flip oh my wasn't it scum.

with his "oh I didn't think there were any power roles" in an open game? this is a little different.

no that isn't what I am talking about at all. I am talking about when he was blatantly trying to fish out whether someone had a night action or not. kind of like what bulba is doing.

@ bc I really do think nacho is town. he is being incredibly stubborn and we only fight like this over reads when he is town.

[ffullisade]

no that isn't what I am talking about at all. I am talking about when he was blatantly trying to fish out whether someone had a night action or not. kind of like what bulba is doing.

when was that?

it starts here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4472920

[ffullisade]

stop trolling me nacho, this is mafia and it is srs bizness!

@penguin

I am sorry I forgot you were in that game too. that was one of points was the aggressive roleclaiming. a watcher claim can be pulled off we saw it gears when messiah claimed on d1. he claimed a one shot though. I agree we probably shouldn't lynch her today but I just want to go on record that I think she is scum. she is exhibiting classic scum behaviour and if I had the confidence I would push for her lynch but I don't, mostly cos I don't know her.

[ffullisade]

stop trolling me nacho, this is mafia and it is srs bizness!

you're comparing Fe saying that he thought someone had a night action and that was a scumslip because he didn't think anyone had any night actions with bulba wanting rena to fullclaim after she's claimed watcher. he didn't ask who targetted players, he asked IF anyone targetted players, which could confirm/destroy the claim without outting anyone at all.

wat are you talking about he asked if anybody targeted bc

rolefishing is rolefishing no matter what way you dress it up

[ffullisade]

Eh, not a game I'd want to be remembered for. I mean, kudos to IaI and the scum team, but being duped by a fake cop twice and mislynched at Lylo, hardly a shining moment.

it was not my shining game either especially since I helped support some of the wifom by wondering if there was a framer. god, uber goober so should have been lynched in that game.

Meta knowledge aside, it seems possible that Rena (hope your brother's OK) showing classic scum behavior might be more a side effect of having a PR and the overlap that can happen there. And I can't find where Messiah claims he's only one-shot. That is a game where the opposing scum faction had a Ninja, like Red Ryu, so another point where Rena could be claiming with a scum PR.

I agree that specials often look scummy to me that is why I special hunt as town every bit as much as I do as scum, so I can stay away from them and not trolleytrack and force an out. there is a bit of difference but for me it has to center around how much meta I have on the person.

Human Destroyer, why the vote with no comment on the role claim? Your ISO has you saying that fuzzy was useless and shouldn't make it to endgame, but you don't say anything about why Rena was a good lynch, particularly in light of being an un-CC'd PR.

I'm not getting the Nachomamma8 case, even with reading my predecessor's ISO. It seems to be based on the idea that Bacde and Nachomamma8 are bussing each other, but since there's no proof that either is scum, it reads like a circular argument.

I had a meta read earlier but we are starting to settle on nacho being town. probably won't be lynching him. before it was mostly bc and I meta reading him. do you remember who was suggesting that they were bussing each other?

what else do you got?

[ffullisade]

Still think its a possibility that Bcade was early distancing from scumCho.

Do you really think this?

I'm so amazed by this I just need you to confirm that you actually think this

nm penguin

[ffullisade]

nero I remember you making that post but I will be honest, I didn't really see the lie. could you plz clarify?

[ffullisade]

Nacho claims he switched his vote to me b/c of a post that was made

AFTER

he already switched his vote ergo he lied.

fixed pronouns. lol

I was wondering why you were calling him a she, lol

[ffullisade]

@ bulba

probably the last time I will bother with you unless you continue to tweak my scumdar.

I addressed the hypocrisy in #1888. he didn't like my answer in post #1893. he thinks it is a playstyle issue. mebbe it is considering his flip. but I answered him and I simply don't understand why he was not understanding my answer.

posts #2764 and #2786

I answered his questions.

so you trying to push this very

limp case of yours

is like trying to adjust the right side of your pants but using your left hand to do it from behind. as in you are seriously reaching here.

thor was not paying attention to the game HE EVEN SAID THIS WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN"T READ 20 PAGES

and let's look at the question you asked rena.

bulb: hi rena, who all visited bc? can anyone confirm?
rena: hi bulb. well I said nothing of interest happened nothing led to a nk but so and so visited them but do you think they might be a town special??????

^ like what response did you expect rena to give??? she would have been outing town specials at that point and if anything her reluctance to do so makes me give her town points but scum claiming to be watcher meta :/

[ffullisade]

slaandy, I asked you what your opinion was on rena's claim

nero did you answer this?

I have ak and penguin as answering but neither of you

[ffullisade]

I did.

I don't see it!

you didn't say anything about it from the time that you voted rena from the time that you claimed.

what am I missing

[ffullisade]

*she claimed

[ffullisade]

okay thanks!

[ffullisade]

Hey Mollie..

Is Thad acting similar or different then the Open game we currently finished?

he is acting too smug

I am inclined to believe him at this point

[ffullisade]

-2 close enough.

I'm an x-shot vig. Haven't used any of my shots yet. Will be shooting slandaar or nacho tonight.
How does that dick taste?

why nacho or slaandy?

[ffullisade]

kill arc unless mastin decides to force replace her out cos the active lurking/prod dodge posts are bs and go against the rules

mastin are you reading this

. I don't think she knows a single thing about what is going on in this game.

<<< ArcAngel9 will not be replaced, as she is not prod dodging (by my definition of prod dodging). She has declared V/LA, and when off of V/LA, her posts are within the spirit and letter of my rules. >>>

[ffullisade]

wat has khan done that is scummy

tl;dr version plz

[ffullisade]

148:

The big difference between this quote and what you did is in tone. Kitty's question is more about the standards of the one questioning her, rather than pointing attention towards someone who did something similar. She is also not as offended with the inquiry as you were when Khan asked his question. Finally, in this instance, she is actually being called scum by you, whereas Khan was just asking a simple question and had not made any accusation, which makes your freakout even more suspicious.

And for those who are curious themselves, here is Nero's response to Khan again:

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:its also likely multiball

How in the world can town make this assumption on Day 1?

Its a 24 player game an current site meta suggest more than 1 killing faction. 6 scum seems the ideal number, weather its a 5 man scum team and a sk or two 3 man scum teams.

But all of Slandaar, Bcade and Bulb have speculated that its multiball as well. Why is this a sin for me but not them?

+ why am I not on your town list?

You think there's a difference in our "deflects" 'cause I'm calling her scum?!? But this is still very much incorrect. The Mala head DID have a scum read on me and Mara was even ok with it until recently.

Kitty did the EXACT same thing as me. I called her fourth vote on Nacho (and her "oh I didn't know there was a Nacho wagon") opportunistic. Her questioning me about why I didn't call out Bcade for his 5th vote (despite him already being on the wagon therefore he wasn't the 5th vote) is no different then my questioning KK over why he didn't question others that were setup speculating.

Also, context says that Khan was light calling me scummy.

Again, the difference is that Kitty was asking about YOUR motivations, while you asked Khan why he didn't look elsewhere.

What would you expect from scumcho?

A degree of non-genuine play. He came close in Voided's Mountainous Nightless game, but he was town then.

What about his suspicion of OS read as genuine to you?

OS had made a bull crap fake claim, and Nacho saw through it. I don't see how that is anti-town in the slightest, yet you are continuing to try to push that, in a similar manner as Ryu, btw. Pointing out, pressuring, and voting someone who is lying is not scummy. Period.

I addressed the hypocrisy in #1888. he didn't like my answer in post #1893. he thinks it is a playstyle issue. mebbe it is considering his flip. but I answered him and I simply don't understand why he was not understanding my answer.

Oh, you mean this:

Spoiler: Mollie "answering" questions

I am back to thinking you are scum. why? cos what I said made perfect sense and you know it but are still trying to push a crappy point

Then explain how what I said was hypocritical. Because if what you said made sense then you should be able to do so.

I was asking you to stop that condescending tone with me (you are still patronising but I will deal) and it worked!

that is what that was about. ty

I remember the last time you got dodgy about what you were saying and then went into a 'how dare you personally attack me spiel'

You didn't flip town.

people treat hydras differently a lot of people hate hydras on this site. you either understand this basic concept or you don't

*shrug*

How am I treating you differently?
Again, you're dodging the original point of the question to give a sideways answer.

2. erm that isn't quite what happened

So what did happen?

and I still say you haven't been reading my posts unless they are addressed to you

HUGE SCUMTELL

I've been doing that to a lot of posts this game.
Heck, i still haven't finished my catchup and no one has mentioned it so I'm planning to let that slide too.

I think you are doing the misrepping here and being opportunistic over mine and majiffy's dissonance. majiffy and I argue a lot in mafia we have 2 completely different approaches anybody who has played with us knows this

there is no way you can look at us and not say we are town for bloody obvious reasons but oh hai there are some moar of your posts I wanna address

It's actually quite easy for me to point and you and call you scum.
What are the obvious reasons I'm missing?

Then explain how what I said was hypocritical. Because if what you said made sense then you should be able to do so.

I did. you put a vote on a weak wagon when there were other options in play do you know who does that as a vet player and then tries to berate other players for doing the same it is scum that is who. I was wondering if it was a town tell for you but I guess it isn't

I remember the last time you got dodgy about what you were saying and then went into a 'how dare you personally attack me spiel'

You didn't flip town.

and I remember the last time you tried to use this as a scumtell for me. pretty sure you were culted at that point

How am I treating you differently?
Again, you're dodging the original point of the question to give a sideways answer.

no I am not

So what did happen?

I've been doing that to a lot of posts this game.
Heck, i still haven't finished my catchup and no one has mentioned it so I'm planning to let that slide too.

I mentioned it

I just said it

ahdjkshflwerhjdjsdnisawlqewiz

It's actually quite easy for me to point and you and call you scum.
What are the obvious reasons I'm missing?

no it isn't. it is why you are going about it all clumsily

Probably the reason why he couldn't understand your answer is that you actually never

answered

him. He'd ask you a question and you'd leave him hanging and then later say, "I'm not avoiding your questions.", which is an absolute lie.

The hydra point, especially, is ridiculous. You originally tried to dismiss his initial push by saying that he was just treating you differently,

because

you were a hydra. Thor was confused and asked how that even made sense, which you dodged by going into a big hydra discussion. Seriously, your responses are nonsensical.

posts #2764 and #2786

I answered his questions.

Are you serious? #2764 is Thor saying that you have not addressed his questions at all, and then in #2786 you STILL HAVEN'T answered those questions, instead addressing something more recent and saying that you didn't want to get in a "word war", which Thor pointed out was a lie and contradicted your original story about Majiffy telling you not to get into it with Thor.

thor was not paying attention to the game HE EVEN SAID THIS WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN"T READ 20 PAGES

Thor was not caught up. That does not mean that he wasn't paying attention to the game. In fact, he was very attentive of current events thread-wise. If there was something that was important that happened in the section he was not caught up in, you could have always linked or quoted them, but you chose not to do so.

and let's look at the question you asked rena.

bulb: hi rena, who all visited bc? can anyone confirm?
rena: hi bulb. well I said nothing of interest happened nothing led to a nk but so and so visited them but do you think they might be a town special??????

That is a blatant misrep.

@Rena: Did anybody visit Om n1 or Bacde n2?

I didn't ask who visited her targets. I just asked if anybody did, which can be a simple yes or no answer. She could have easily answered yes and said that she preferred not to out the player's name. I don't need the specifics. I just want to make sure everything lines up.

she would have been outing town specials at that point and if anything her reluctance to do so makes me give her town points but scum claiming to be watcher meta :/

I don't understand that last part. You think she's town for not outing PRs, but yet she's scum for not doing so?

On to page 149.

tl;dr

pretty sure the post is filled with nothing but the same sycophantic pretentious doubaggery stuff as has been previously posted by this poster

ak it worries me that you honestly don't have a town read on desperado. like it seriously worries me

@ desp

had the exact same reaction as you did to cephrir

whoops wrong hydra

[ffullisade]

okay desp I need you to listen to me

I am in a hydra with both of them. I would like to think that I can read them a bit. if I give them a town read will you trust that? to me mala is looking like frustrated town mala. mara's scum game is painfully obvious I should know our 3 headed hydra was in a recent game and I was like omg mara plz stop posting. I am not seeing that here but it is multi-ball and that changes some things mebbe.

@ ak

what is your stance on nero again? also mala what do mean the helluva a mess that town made today?

@ bc

do you know why I am town reading nacho at this point? cos said he that me not trusting him was my problem not his and I needed therapy, lol. I bet that was the meanest thing he could think of to say.

that is frustrated town nacho cos when we both get town reads on each other we work together. sometimes it *cough* doesn't *cough* always work out but it is a comfort. fery is town reading him but is getting frustrated that every she tries to engage with him to firm up that read other people interfere.

re: thad. we played an open game where I scumread him in under 5 posts. <----- for reasons people would not understand. how do you explain things like timing and syntax if other people don't look for those things? you can't. luckily he was vig killed and we won the game.

in this game he subbed in so I lost on edge wrt obtaining early info. I am of the opinion he is what he says he is only because I don't think he would pull "I'm the vig suck my dick" if he were scum but I could be wrong.

I waffle on nero

I do not like cephrir's last few posts at all whatsoever. I like ctd. I like seanalderina. <---- no one will understand that read either. I am liking khan.

I am going to do a good long think and look at who is staying on the outskirts

[ffullisade]

I might trust it if you back up your meta reads with links. One each of frustrated mala town and easy to read mara scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

^ us as a hydra. when reading it know that she capitalises and I don't. we were town.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

^ she was scum. I was actually gonna vote her but then aj dragged his feet so freaking hard that I ate paranoid flakes over him and didn't vote correctly.

she has a relative scum tell that she has not dropped yet this game.

do you want a couple of games where mara/mala/me were town and scum as a hydra? I can provide links for those.

@ nero

sometimes you look very town to me and sometimes I can't see where you are coming from. what sits in your favour is that you seem to be as lost and confused about things as I am wrt certain aspects of the game. nero, believe me I want you to be town.

[ffullisade]

jesus christ why did those links fail

those were to the isos but here are the game links:

scum http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=24201

town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26483

[ffullisade]

That scum game is Mala, not Mara

mara:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26834

^ read her as scum in her first few posts but mala thought she looked town with her asking of the set-up. and then she claimed vig in twilight I think lol

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=28626

^ poor mara. I had a primadonna hissy fit and she was left to deal with wisdom who unnerved her to the point I seriously thought she was just going to say GOD I AM SCUM JUST KILL ME ALREADY. we are kerberos in that game.

I think mara is a pretty good player has great gut instinct. the only thing she needs to work on her scum is to not panic when under pressure. she does this a bit as town but she doesn't scumtell as much. nacho mara and I were in a recent polygamy game where I trusted nacho and mac's read over my own but then she self-voted and I took that as a scum claim. she wasn't though

[ffullisade]

Eh, I don't think I buy the vig claim, but I agree with those who say that if it's not dead or proven overnight we know where to lynch.

UNVOTE: ThAdmiral

ffullisade, do your points about the AK hydra members still apply when they're working together? Because while I have yet to play in a hydra, one of the advantages seems to be the ability to rein in each other's bad habits. You said mara was that way in a hydra, but mala wasn't in that hydra, right?

mala was in that hydra. kerberos is mala/mara/mollie

but to answer your question, no, I haven't had much luck with that

[ffullisade]

@ ak

I have a weak town read on you that I can not in good conscience keep if you do not get in here and interact with me

while I have seen frustrated town mala and super scummy mara I need more to back up this read cos you

have

been weird as fuck in this game so I am not surprised there is a ton of suspicion on you.

can you give me a complete list of your reads from townist to scummiest and if you have null list can you tell me why those players are still null.

[ffullisade]

also don't forget about my question asking you what you think of nero

[ffullisade]

and when I say weak town read I mean very weak as in I am not going to try to stop your lynch cos your khan push is terrible

[ffullisade]

guyz I know you are around I can see you on skype

[ffullisade]

if you are going to actively lurk and let someone else do all of your defending for you can you at least use invisible mode I mean have I taught you guyz

nothing

[ffullisade]

also can you tell slaandy in your scum qt to answer nero's question cos it is a good one

[ffullisade]

mala is around

[ffullisade]

also mara I asked you about nero yesterday

mala is this going to be one of those times where you make a promise and then don't deliver?

also is the shifty eyed >_> a relative scum tell

I am going to look it up

[ffullisade]

Fery come back soon! I misss youuu

You rang?

[ffullisade]

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.WTF? CrashTextDummie is one of the towniest players and posted some good questions, and that's how you respond?

I really like this reaction.

Although I'm inclined to give ThAd a night, I'll vote his ass in a heartbeat today if he continues to threaten players I think are obviously town.

- f

[ffullisade]

formatting is bizarre in that last quote. The first 2 sentences are ThAd. Starting with WTF? it's KK, and that's the part I really like.

- f

[ffullisade]

Fery come back soon! I misss youuu

You rang?

Hi.

So how do you currently feel about us, khan, Slandaar & Despo?

The more khan posts I see, the more of a town read I develop. Mollie thinks Despo is town and I agree. These votes on him are making my eyes squint.

You and Slandaar...now that's a story. I had you both as town yesterday. But based on the last page or so, I've done a 180. I kinda think Slandaar has initiated a bus in post 3855.

- f

[ffullisade]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=19101

byee

Fery come back soon! I misss youuu

y u no like meh

anyways I compared that to what you have done here. you only did it once in the you linked and thank you for doing that! cos I was able to see the difference in that you do >_> when it is other people's shifty behaviour yet you are doing it in

this

game in posts where you are actually shifty. not sure if you realise that or not.

I have a big poker tell. when I am actually holding something good in my hand I start twirling my hair. <----- I don't even know I am doing it it why I would probably be absolutely terrible IRL mafia.

also don't you just hate it when your scummate tries to bus you in the most awkward way possible?

VOTE: amethyst kitty

lynch this lynch it with fire guys

sorry it took me so long to get there, I had a reason I was staying away from them but I just realised that it is not adding up to their responses in this game.

[ffullisade]

Why would red scum initiate a bus in this situation?

same reason why anyone busses a scummate. to gain town cred.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1725

in post game I pretty much stated how I feel about bussing (don and I did kiss and make up). I think it is highly overrated and most people are very clumsy about it.

I'd say the timing was about right if AK was going to be bussed. Things weren't looking too hot for them at that point. I don't see what looks bussy about it though; explain?

okay so slaandar does a 180 on ak cos he is sheeping dead thor's read. okay fine, that's good, I will follow up on dead player's reads too. but he gets sticky with it but isn't explaining why. after I provided meta links, a more natural reaction would be to feel a bit unsure about their own read especially since was basically a sheep vote but he didn't, he said, "oh multi-ball drastically improves your posting" <------------ he is trying to justify his vote cos he has inside knowledge of how ak is going to flip. ak's posts have not "dramatically improved" in this game they have been down right shitty but mala dropped a special tell early d1 and so that is why I left them alone. but I scanned their posts and there is no breadcrumbing and mala always breadcrumbs the info she obtains from a night action. does this make sense?

[ffullisade]

scum melting down itt, lol

[ffullisade]

It's okay Mollie.

You'll learn that this little relative scum tell with >.> is bogus. Just like I had to learn that the relative scum tell I had on Om was no longer valid. Please stop saying I normally do when I write is a scum tell. I used to do it all the time on my other site and its where I picked it up from.

I can skim my only scum game there, but I don't even think I did shifty eyes, tbh.

the reason why I am letting you know is so you can fix it. I have a whole shopping cart of other relative tells for you.

[ffullisade]

Mollie you are being mean to me. I'm not going to talk to when you're accusing me of lurking when I was sleeping.
The fact you're saying I'm going to make empty promises and didn't even give me a freaken chance. Then accuse of me of a relative scum tell which is NOT true.

It's okay Mollie.

You'll learn that this little relative scum tell with >.> is bogus. Just like I had to learn that the relative scum tell I had on Om was no longer valid. Please stop saying I normally do when I write is a scum tell. I used to do it all the time on my other site and its where I picked it up from.

I can skim my only scum game there, but I don't even think I did shifty eyes, tbh.

Please walk me trough the Despo town read. I'm just not seeing it.

Dear Mara I hate 1v1. Why would you do this shit? <.<

Yes town is town bussing us. *dances*

Like these all sound like frustrated scum to me

do you see the difference between desperado's flail and ak's flail? I think telling the difference between scum flail and town flail is the most important skill a player can learn. I am by no means perfect cos sometimes I get it wrong but I can usually manage to spot town flail. scum usually resort to emotional manipulation like what scummy ak is doing.

[ffullisade]

In hindsight, maybe? They feel different, but the only specific thing I can actually define is the AtE.

For some reason I feel like I've said those exact words before.

lol

y u have to be on their team cephrir

[ffullisade]

Hey mala this is fferyllt.

I've let Mollie know you are waiting to hear from her. She'll reply in a bit when she gets something else wrapped up.

- f

[ffullisade]

fery said I need to get in here so I am going to

UNVOTE: ak

until I have a chance to catch up and respond

[ffullisade]

The whole KK v AK that's all of Mara's. I'm not getting involved.

Despo:

You do realize we are a hydra right? Two heads don't see eye to eye on the same thing. We are fighting over the reads (again). I, Mala, sees you as leaning scum whereas Mara sees you as a weak town read.

I want Mollie to answer my question, but I'll see if that happens.

if you are town you need to knock the fucking bitchiness off. cos you both are starting to piss me off.

you asked fery for her desp read not me. you acted like you didn't even want to talk to me so you can fuck off with that shit.

I am reading desperado as town cos when he had a whole pile of pressure and was getting ready to get lynched he put a lot of effort into leaving a trail of his thoughts cos he thought he was getting lynched that day. #3909 is the first time you have done this even though I asked you both for a list of your thoughts yesterday. all I got was "mollie your stupid" that is why you looked like you were scum flailing not town flailing. cos that is what scum do. I mean hell I nearly escaped a lynch as scum once cos I said, "eat a dick town!" and you both know what game I am talking about.

and let be me clear. I am not lynching you over this >_>. relative tells take time to develope and I have no idea if it is one or not. I have a few that I feel good about and they are combo of town tells and scum tells. you were scum in uber's newbie game and I seem to remember you doing it a lot whenever you said something scummy. when I made that post it was me musing out loud. I don't have it down as a relative tell for you but if you flip scum you best believe I am putting that one down and if you try to deliberately use it as town to mess with meta all that it will get you is lynched, it would be better to just say "oh hey I am going to stop doing this cos it is a tell that I didn't even know I had!".

I am lynching you cos you have looked scummy all game. I have been staying away from you and trying to steer people away from you. desp asked me about my read on you. I listed games that I had meta knowledge of and pointed out how it was possible that you were town.

but her is the deal; if I am going to put my credibility on the line and ask other players to trust my judgment you best believe I am going to firm up that read. mala, I put my credibility on the line for rob when I shouldn't have in the epic game. he said a couple of wonky things but I was trusting

your

read but using

my

credibility. <---- will never do this again. from now on I will always firm up my read before doing that.

so how do I firm up my read? by interacting with players. I asked you about nero and was ignored until I started going after you and pointed out that you were ignoring my question. I asked for a list of all the players from towniest to scummiest and you still have yet to do that. #3909 is the only post that even remotely looks decent. but here is the thing; why did you not post something like that yesterday when I asked instead of you flailed around all over the place, called me stupid and tried to emotional manipulate me. at this point it might be a matter of too little too late but I am still catching up in the thread.

[ffullisade]

@ khan

6) Sorry, was busy lynching your scum-buddy Red Ryu the next day.

red ryu died n1 so how were you "busy" lynching him

[ffullisade]

Really AA.
Lurking and now just toss a vote because I said something you don't like?

Why are getting aggressive?
Despite khan's points, I didn't like the way you excused yourself for your misread on Despo, that's a huge scum slip. and anybody can tell you thats just so scummy and you're accusing me for voting you? serioulsy? If i do something would you let it pass? and now you're complaning that i was lurking. so now you tell me.. which is worse.. lurking or scum slip?

How is it a scum slip? We are two different players who don't see eye to eye on the same people.

Mollie was asking Mara FOR her reads not mine. Mara's reads.

no. I want both your reads. from towniest to scummiest

[ffullisade]

As much as you are probably town AA it would be nice if you could try a little. I'm now apparently one of your top scumreads because I didn't feel like answering a stupid question. At least pretend to care?

I am a little surprised AK is still going on with this KK garbage, and Desperado's spoiler title pretty much says it all about that "1v1".

In other news I think I may hate hydras

.

let's hydra cephrir!

actually I am being serious. we should do it but mebbe after this game

[ffullisade]

You know what. Fuck it.

Mara is going solo. I'm done.

<<< If this is an official request for MS Marangal to replace Amethyst Kitty, please clarify to make it explicit. >>>

Mollie is going off on me for a relative tell that isn't a relative tell and ignoring everything she said prior. She's started to fish at me because I dropped a PR tell during Day 1, but didn't breadcrumb any results. So apparently me not breadcrumbing = me being scummy. She's ignoring anything and everything I might have told her during past games and even on skype.

I am not ignoring anything.

I pressured you and you reacted horribly.

you both

however ignored my question about nero and have not done the one thing that I asked you both to do.

so you think I am role fishing you? I mean if I spotted the tell you would be dead right? cos I don't leave specials alive

you still look like you are scum flailing.

Not to mention she won't explain the damn Despo town read.

as I mentioned in a previous post, you didn't ask me you asked fery. you told me "bye". so I have explained my desp read even though you never asked me are you going to put your big girl britches on and stop acting like a freaking 2 year old who is not getting their way?

AA is lurking and just jumping on the wagon without fleshing shit out.

Mara is engaging in 1vs1 which I don't want to fucken deal with.

Slandaar does a 180 because thor flipped out. Btw I will probably see another 180 from you during the next day after we flip town.

Despo is likely scum.

I agree, arc is lurking to the point of ridiculousness. unfortunately she does this as town and you know it cos you gmed a game with her and I in it. she freaking went awol for days, often didn't seem to know what was going on and she was town. I know you read that game so the lurking should be a null tell for her and you should know this.

I seriously doubt you are town at this point cos everything you are saying is bullshit.

[ffullisade]

The thing is, nacho is bluescum so it makes sense that other colors of scum would just vote for him with shoddy reasoning

I don't like the people who are voting AK looking for bluescum, she's either red or third or town

I actually agree with this, I think.

[ffullisade]

Mollie, Mala needs to cool down. Right now, she thinks you're acting like a bitch.

I wasn't the one who started calling someone stupid when they were asked to do something. if you were both at work like you claimed then a "I will get to it later, I promise" and a "we said we will get to it later". what you both did was to call me stupid over a period of several posts. <--- I call that the majiffy tell but lots of people do it when they are scum. nero and mastin are the only ones who do it regardless.

You know as well as I do how hard it is to do anything rationally when you're emotionally impaired.

lol.

when you pressured us, we were both unavailable to do anything beyond shallow interactions, we both told you this. Post 3909 was made the moment I got home from work, it was made ~5:00 my time

yeah you did and then proceeded to call me stupid and meltdown all over the place.

I gave you my read on nero, albiet it's mostly a response to Nacho but it has what you're looking for as well. at least I think it does.

you did not give it to me when I asked for it. you gave it later after some thought. cos when I originally asked for it you were around and not at work and had plenty of time to answer. you both were.

I also don't think I ignored any of your requests, I have followed through all of them when I said I would be able to do so. I told you, when you were asking for us to do something that I wouldn't be able to do it at that time.

no, I am still waiting for a complete list of all the players from towniest to scummiest. this is like the third time I have asked for it. I also want an explanation of your null reads if you have any.

3911 is what I have as reads at this time. I never do full reads list, I never explain my reads on someone unless I have to so 3911-12 is what you're going to have to deal with for now.

okay. so here you admit that you have not done what I asked of you after just saying you did everything I asked of you.

okay.

see here is the thing. the aTe-ing is not working for either fery or I. why cos we are both the Mistresses of Emotional Manipulation and do it regardless of alignment. there are different motivations behind it though. it is subtle, but they are there. fery and I have both self-voted, lashed out, fake meltdowns and emotionally manipulated the fuck out of anybody who tried to lynch us as scum. we have both even done the "fuck you" and I know I have subbed out of game cos I had too much IRL stuff going on but told other players that it was because of them. I think we have gotten burnt out on it though cos neither of us really do it as much anymore, for me, only special occasions. but I know it can be done and it usually wins games.

SO. if we remove all of the aTe and just go by body of work what we are looking at is a whole lot of scummy behaviour. there is a lot of inconsistency to what you guys are saying for instance mala saying that she asked me for my read on desp but she didn't she told me "bye", she asked fery. <----- crap like that looks more like scum getting rattled than desperate town trying to avoid a mislynch.

fery and I both still think you are scum. you cannot bullshit bullshitters <---- we can spot it. if you guys are town then all I can say is whoa, get a grip. we all lose it from time to time, LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SAY I HAVE HAD SOME AWSUM EPIC MELTDOWNS AS ALL ALIGNMENTS. <---- not proud of them (well some of them I kind of am cos they were really funny) but it happens.

anyhoo without much further ado

VOTE: amethyst kitty

[ffullisade]

Speak for yourself, Mollie. Though I do still spot aTe a mile away in tulle fog.

- f

[ffullisade]

Mollie, I was calling you stupid because you were being stupid. we told you we wouldn't be available for so many hours and you continued to call us out regardless.

We did tell you that we were both at work, and I at least told you that I will talk to you when I can about whatever you want but you wouldn't leave it at that.

When you originally asked me for it, I was at work and I gave you a list of what I think who is where. 3911 was that list.

I have also never give explanation on a null-read. they are null for a reason.

I am also not trying to AtE the fuck out of you, Mala isn't either and I told her she needs to cool down for a bit before she comes back in here to talk to you.

we aren't trying to do any of those things, at least I'm not intentionally trying to do any of those things.

Mala did ask for your read on Desp, She wanted to talk to Ffery about it but she did ask you why you thought Desp was town and the answer isn't even the best answer you could have given her.

and why would town be desperate to avoid a mislynch? that is, and always will be a scum-trait mollie, and the fact that Mala isn't even trying to wiggle out of this lynch or the fact that I'm not jumping on the biggest wagon, but trying to push my own should tell you something.

the fact that either of us aren't willing to jump onto Nacho or Thad, the fact that I oppose both of them should tell you that we don't really care about being lynched.

You aren't even looking at the points I brought up since I got back, you brought up the exact same line to KK that I am.

You havn't even looked at my town-case for Nero

I am trying to work with you, and talk to you but you are making it hard for the both of us.

okay but you said you had just gotten home from work at 5 and made post #3909 bt now you are saying when you made post #3911 you were at work?

you guys can't even keep your freaking stories straight.

lynch this shit

sorry

[ffullisade]

no

I was at work when you originally asked me for that list of reads.

when I came home, I gave you that list of reads.

that list of reads is post 3911

okay but it isn't what I asked for and you both are being ridiculously stubborn about it. the only people who do this are scum usually, or dumb town. since I don't think either of you are retarded help me out here.

and mala tried to dance around the issue by saying that I was only asking you when I wasn't.

quote the post where mala asked me for my read on desp.

and yes, I am going after khan for ryu thing. you have a legitimate point. but that does not automatically make you town.

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.

Mollie, I didn't like this at all.

Neither did we.

- f

[ffullisade]

question for nacho

whenever you get around to it

does this look like the same mara in polygamy? or popcorn?

[ffullisade]

@ ak

Mala has him as scum. Mala thinks AD was really fluffy, and Thad is the exact same. He isn't as aggressive as she's used to him being and he's following pushes of others over making pushes of his own. She also think his Vig claim is lazy, and a fake-claim. she's thinking SK, or red scum.

She also thinks that Mollie's relative tell that we used in Tit for Tat can be used on him again this game

.

?

I went back and looked in our chatlog about that game and I don't see how you could interpret that tell and apply it to this game. if anything he is doing the opposite. I believe him cos of his whole suck my dick post which I found to be kind of funny. I am just not feeling that he is scum but then I suppose I could interact with him to firm up the read cos I haven't played with him that much. and I think I will.

@ nacho

re: seanalderina

I could see him making that post as either alignment but for completely different reasons.

re: ak

see, I don't think mara is acting at all like she did in polygamy. she seems too calm, almost like she is being coached. I see the same behaviour in popcorn either other than she was calmer in that game to a degree, she just didn't know what to say when wisdom went after her and I was not around to help. I have been negging on her scum game hard <---- cos I want her to improve her game. she and mala will understand this and I think so will you.

she says things like this:

for me, alot of it is meta based... he does alot of 1v1 ( I don't know if he does these as scum too) and his thoughts and ideas look pretty genuine to me. I see a bit of logical fallacy in his posts, though he's generally fearless with his opinions and doesn't really care of how others view it. He has that stubborness that I have witnessed him to have as town and is unwavering behind it. He's pretty aggressive in his attacks, the only thing I have a problem with is his choice of targets. some of them look pretty easy. I can't really follow his thought process behind his Rena, Kitty, Nero, and Thad votes but that's pretty minor I think.

and I don't feel like I am talking to mara. I swear that reads list looks more like mala than mara it is weird. I mean I feel like I am talking to this player:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1200

iso it. mala's scum game is highly detailed.

but mara is signing the post. so it confuses me.

nacho I am telling you that I have done exactly what mala has done in this game as scum and everyone town read me for it. I know it is not good yardstick to measure another player with what I have done, but there is something there that I just don't like. I mean, how is applying pressure (and god knows I have been nice I mean we all know how mean I can get when I get pissed off <----working on it) being mean? go back and read the exchanges and tell me that it was not an overreaction.

and don't say a thing about how I am at tr that is years of frustration we are talking about that someone who is not familiar with the history would understand. I think you are putting them in your town pile and they don't really belong there.

I have always had a seekrit belief that the game is usually won by the player(s) who most wants it. I think scum really wants this, especially red scum. ak's post asking about "do you think that it is possible that it is scum + sk?" is a lead up to stoking the fires of a thad lynch. do you know what does not add up with their thad scum read? I fucking read him like a picture book so wouldn't you think they would put more stock in my read?

and of course if thad by some chance flips scum I will eat humble pie but I am going to fight his lynch kicking and screaming cos I want to at least give him a chance. also wondering if the stuff between khan and them is scum theatre. it is possible but I feel like slaandy if more of a likely partner.

[ffullisade]

I'm going to keep every emotion that I may or may not have out of this post.

@Mollie:

You have a point in regards to the reads, but no it was actually Mara that did that. She asked me for my reads and I went back and read through all of Thez/Ruu's posts. I gave the reasons why I thought Thad/Despo are scum. Might not have been in great detail, but I tried to explain it as best.

Why ask us for our reads if you were just going to twist it and say we are scum for it

. Along with the fact you pulled up my scum game, but you're forgetting it's just not scum-Mala that can post reads like that because Town-Mala has also.

I have been wanting your reads all game. it took heavy pressuring before you finally gave them out in this day round. I want a trail. if you are town then hell yeah I will be doing a follow up if I am alive, if you are scum then hey we have something to work from.

My skype message to Mastin was about skype logs, but I think they are treated similar to QT post logs so I wanted to check with him before posting it. I would have proven that Mara did all of that work and not me.

Mollie I tried working with you earlier and tried to reach out a few times. I asked you about Thad because I saw that relative tell from Tit For Tat in this game. It wasn't as obvious, but it's there in his earlier posts.

there was no follow-up with the reach out instead you are applying a relative tell I have on a player when I am not applying it myself cos I am not seeing it. if it is there then show me. what you

might

be applying is what I had on his meta but then why not listen to the player who gave it to you.

You are forgetting that we are hydra'ing and we can control each other. The only time we can't control each other's emotions is when we aren't around at the same time. You're trying to fuel justification by saying she's being coached. Similar to KK saying that we were coaching Ryu. KK you need to read up on my meta I do the whole cop thing regardless of alignment. I flipped out of scum-OM for doing it because he tried to direct the action during Switch.

you were both around when you melted down. so not much control there. :/

it isn't similar to what I am saying about ryu at all. I don't think you are blue scum. I think you are red scum and there is someone on your team who is coaching you or you are coaching mara cos that did not look a post of hers. I also think you are playing the hydra cog dis to the max which is what we did in the popcorn game. but cog dis in a hydra a null tell so that is not my angle. my angle is, is that there is something going on with you 2 and when I pressed you scumflailed. I mean you melted down over

nothing

. mebbe you were mad cos I brought up the skype thing and that is why I tell people when I hydra with them to go ahead and put yourself on invisible if you are a lurky scum player cos it is pretty damn hard to ignore. and I see no reason not to bring it up when you don't do that, it at least lets you know to cover your tracks better. it is the same as remembering people's work and computer time schedules it is never something I intentionally do it is something that I just do.

if that is what offended you I apologise.

but if we are just going to go off of in thread behaviour up until this point you guyz looked pretty scummy and there was only 1 reason I could give for that, I even flagged it to nacho on d1 I think. one of the main reasons why I do not think he is scum but scum make weird choices in their nks on this site but I think nacho is town.

anyways you probably won't be the lynch for the day cos when women fight men scatter. it is a survival mechanism for them or something.

[ffullisade]

She wasn't on skype during my meltdown. She came around afterwards and I was already doing something to attempt to calm myself down.

I don't need to be coached and Mara doesn't need to be coached either. You do realize we were calm during our hydra game and I was calm in the piratecat hydra. Remember when you flipped out because of Slandaar/Bork and I was there. Well this is a similar situation, but in a total different hydra.

okay well if I am in a game and I have access to someone who is more experienced than I, I am always eager to be coached. I am pretty arrogant but not so arrogant as to miss out on a good opportunity to learn.

The only reason why I flailed because you are cutting it close to the personal edge which I don't want to happen. If it continues any post that comes from you will be replied by from Mara and if you need a question directly answered from me it will come from a Mara post.

okay well I was not the first one to engage in personal attacks. like I am pretty sure I never said you were stupid.

I'm a lurkly player in general. Don't try and say I'm just a lurkly scum player

because I'm lurky as town and I have been given heat for this in the past in a few games we played together

. I'm not going to change my status just because I'm in a hydra and you know I only use phone skype and that the status never changes, but you failed to put that in perspective before attacking us for it.

where

You just tried to rolefish us in another post. I Breadcrumb fake crumbs as VT to draw the NK. I don't crumb when I'm a doctor or a protective role, but I will crumb if I'm an investigation role. If I am a PR I do not crumb during Day 1 (unless it's a hider then I will subtly crumb). I try not to crumb when I'm scum so I don't get locked into a fake claim. You know this based on DT/skype.

well, I don't know that you do not fake breadcrumb as scum or that you are incapable of it. the only time I played against you as scum was in a newbie game and there are only so many set-ups allowed.

For the reads:

I have been disconnected all game besides Day 1 and now. She has been giving her reads out and I was giving them to the best of my ability.
Sure you can have a trail, but we are town and I don't see how our reads will help you after we are dead.

You answered my question that you didn't see it because he looked smug and I thought fair enough. I was just pointing out that I tried to reach out to you in regards to it. I don't want him to catch onto the relative tell so I'm not going to post the one that I see. If you want us to trust you then why don't you trust us or stop being paranoid and trust your original read on us.

okay. so when mara posted the reads, had you not yet communicated that you took it in stock and she was going with what you previously thought? cos that is the piece I am trying to work around at the mo

that was me

[ffullisade]

I missed this post

Oh and Mollie;

Mara doesn't appreciate you using her worse two scum games to judge her. Also the fact the post this game with the reads looks nothing like my detailed posts. Being calm is not a relative-scum tell.

I don't appreciate being called stupid just cos I decided to put pressure on you.

when did she tell you this? I think it looks more like yours and less like mara's. *shrug*

being calm

is

a relative scumtell but it may not apply to her. dunno.

So on the most random note. The fact is Rena, Nacho, Nero & our wagon took off like wildfire, but we can't get any votes onto Despo/KK.

I did say Thad too so I'm kinda wondering about that scum-read I had on him due to that fact, but the wagons were fast paced and I have noticed the wagons that are harder to get votes on are sometimes scum rather then town

.

when you get back lets talk about this.

[ffullisade]

It wasn't the pressure that made me snap. It was the fact you're just being paranoid and just flopped without explanation. You decided I was scum off a relative tell that was just unreliable. I do think you're town however, but sometimes you are known to get onto the wrong track and you tunnel for a while and this is what scum uses to their advantage.

why would me being paranoid make you snap? I get that way about everyone. occasionally I wonder if my hydra partner was given a different role pm than I did.

As I said, I didn't call you stupid, but you were pissing us both off which is not good. It normally takes a lot for me to lose my temper and when I feel like I'm getting too out of hand I need to step away because I don't want it to affect a friendship.

neither do I. I am still confused as to why you guyz got pissed off when I was applying pressure to you in the first place.

Uh, we were talking a little while ago once you posted your first big post. I paraphrased it because she doesn't want to post over here right now.

See that's the thing. You need to apply relative tells that apply to us and not the general population.

I thought I did.

which ones tell are you talking about

I only was going to bed because nothing was happening. Now I'm watching a TV show because I was eating chocolate and it made me hyper. So I'm kinda here, but off my phone.

german chocolate brownie ice cream from cold stone is teh best.

still scum reading you but the aTe meltdowns were epic <3

dammit that was me

freaking sorry mastin

<<< It's okay, we all have slips from time to time. >>>

[ffullisade]

Mollie what do you think of my Seanald case?

are you asking if your case makes sense? yes

are you asking if it applies to this specific player? I dunno. I think you are reaching.

are you trying to justify gut?

[ffullisade]

what are reads now desp?

[ffullisade]

Molllie and I have a few pages to catch up on.

We'll think about the case desperado built on Seanald. Still have significant concerns about AK.

- f

[ffullisade]

Words cannot express my relief about acquiring a nacho-town read.

VOTE: Nero Cain

- f

[ffullisade]

@despo

fery head here.

The case looks good on the face of it.

I have a feeling that Seanald could wind up mislynched a lot.

I'd want to do a lot more research before considering a vote. I thought I might have to make that research a priority earlier this week. I will get to it.

[ffullisade]

.........................................................................................

WORST TOWN EVER!!!!

I'm being voted for a bunch of fucking nothingness. Jesus Christ.

Where does Nacho's case go wrong?

[ffullisade]

the part where I didn't receive a scum pm.

So the observations are correct but the conclusions are wrong?

[ffullisade]

Hydras fucking suck

- f

[ffullisade]

^ don't worry sweets, Despo is a retard!!!!

Why are you telling her not to worry when I wasn't even talking to her when I said that?

And why am I retard?

You're not a retard.

AA, we're liking Despo for town.

- f

[ffullisade]

Fferyl, Explain how Despo is town, what is that he did is very town??

The origins of the town read are with Mollie, prior to my replacing in. She pointed out that when under pressure on day 1 he townflailed. I skimmed that part of the thread and agreed. In the time since I replaced in, I can't point to anything he's posted that doesn't appear to be town-motivated.

- f

[ffullisade]

Fery can you point Mollie in my direction and ask her to ISO me. I want her to read something - she'll see it when she ISO's us.

When I see her online again, I will. I also want her thoughts on Nero's postings since his wagon started up.

[ffullisade]

Fferyl, Explain how Despo is town, what is that he did is very town??

The origins of the town read are with Mollie, prior to my replacing in. She pointed out that when under pressure on day 1 he townflailed. I skimmed that part of the thread and agreed. In the time since I replaced in, I can't point to anything he's posted that doesn't appear to be town-motivated.

- f

Point taken but i want to hear mollie thoughts as well on Despo.
Btw, why do you think Nero is scum. I know Nero and this is his town play. And whats your hydra thoughts on me?


And PV, whats wrong with you? Why are you calling me "Red Mafia"?

I thought Nacho's case made a lot of sense, and I was serious when I said that the post gave me an unequivcal town-motivated impression of Nacho. However, Nero's reaction to the case and the wagon doesn't look all that scummy. I wish I had more game experience with him than I do. From what I've seen, his gameplay as town has attributes that I identify as scummy, so I have to get past that over and over again.

Mollie was leaning scum on you mostly (I think) due to your low level of participation. I've been hardcore fencesitting with respect to you because although I can see why she thinks that, I feel like I finally got a basis for reading you in the buzzword bingo game and I'd lean town without her input. At some point we'll need to hash it out and get on the same page.

[ffullisade]

Fery can you point Mollie in my direction and ask her to ISO me. I want her to read something - she'll see it when she ISO's us.

AA:

explain why Cephrir and Bulba please?

I can maybe see both Despo/Seanald.

wat am I supposed to be looking for

[ffullisade]

hey bulba I haven't finished up my last posts

@ ak wat am I supposed to be getting out of #4156?

I mean all you are doing is referring me to another post. what is your point exactly?

[ffullisade]

hhhmmm....not quite how I use it. BUT, I see where mala is going with it and it is a lateral application of it.

I was mystified as to why os played his role in the way that he did myself. I didn't understand why he did not like the bp role I mean I think that role is awsum you could spend the entire time taunting scum into nking you. it could take the nk off of a special how kewl is that.

let's look at cephrir. does anybody seriously believe that cephrir has no idea what to do with thad's "trolling". omg, no. I mean that is what cephrir is saying, "I have no idea what to do about thad's trolling cos I have just never encountered it before!". oh plz.

cephrir, how do you feel about discerning the difference between town flail and scum flail? I thought we had a nice exchange around that but it seems to be lost...

[ffullisade]

UNVOTE: nero

he is painfully reminding me of the gears game where he was mislynched by town.

@ cephrir

okay fair enough. thad isn't retarded though. I don't think (hope) that he would just shoot willy nilly without thought or taking direction from his town reads. he knows he will be lynched otherwise so yeah he is trolling but if it bothers you just ignore it. personally I don't think he is but then I have a very high tolerance for trolling, being a massive one myself.

[ffullisade]

your bulb read, Mollie?

I

think

he is dumb town. what bothers me is his complete lack of ability to take in new info and apply it. and I don't like the stickiness of his reads. <---- those last 2 things are things I usually find to be scummy.

I am with you all the way about rena. I seems scummy to me too and it is depressing cos it looks like she will indeed skate.

[ffullisade]

*I think

eta: I will talk to fery about bulb, she has more experience with him than I do.

[ffullisade]

I am off to the movies but fery is here, I would like to keep this dialogue going while you are here.

[ffullisade]

VOTE: nacho

he keeps leading these crappy wagons

and then we townread him for it

and then we realize that the wagon is crappy

but then we never hold him accountable

I will do it! I will hold scumcho accountable

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

[ffullisade]

*I think

eta: I will talk to fery about bulb, she has more experience with him than I do.

uh. one completed game where he cleaned both town's and scum's clock. he was an SK.

- f

[ffullisade]

Despo, are you voting me 'cause you think that I'm playing different then WWE + you agree with the Nacho case?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

More the latter than the former, because I really don't think the WWE game is a good indicator of your townplay...you were basically universally town by what, halfway through D1? and it never changed. I've never seen what you look like as town when you aren't comfortable with your state in the game, which would justify some of the things I found scummy about your reaction to the Nacho case.

fery, I have to see this game where Bulb dominated as SK. Link/name please?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27049

A Donner Party game. No-reveal on the night kills unless/until a killer with actual kills dies.

Bulba killed the town vig, dietician (a sort of activity cop - learned if the investigated was a killer), and one of the two scum. The scum team nked all vanilla town players. Endgame at LYLO came down to bulba, the final scum player, and me. The scum player was obvscum and I wound up voting her, so bulba won. The game had been lost for town on the prior game day.

[ffullisade]

I do agree. He's playing under constraints in this game that affect the mode and frequency of his participation. In that game he didn't post tons of wallz. His thread appearances were more strategic.

- f

[ffullisade]

If you are asking me if I'm reading him as scum in this game, the answer is no, though I'll feel pretty cautious about him in any game until I have a baseline on his town game.

- f

[ffullisade]

VOTE: nacho

he keeps leading these crappy wagons

and then we townread him for it

and then we realize that the wagon is crappy

but then we never hold him accountable

I will do it! I will hold scumcho accountable

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

What relevance does that game have to this one?

Nacho leading crappy wagons.

[ffullisade]

Despo, are you voting me 'cause you think that I'm playing different then WWE + you agree with the Nacho case?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

More the latter than the former, because I really don't think the WWE game is a good indicator of your townplay...you were basically universally town by what, halfway through D1? and it never changed. I've never seen what you look like as town when you aren't comfortable with your state in the game, which would justify some of the things I found scummy about your reaction to the Nacho case.

fery, I have to see this game where Bulb dominated as SK. Link/name please?

sorry mastin

then look at this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26483

I watched in horror from the sidelines as he was lynched

[ffullisade]

so what in that game do you see different in this one?

[ffullisade]

okay, so are you town reading nero now? if so mebbe you should get your vote off of him

[ffullisade]

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

[ffullisade]

...

and everyone thinks Khan is town?

No one's even given me a town-case on Khan when I asked for it,

Mollie, I apologize for calling you stupid, though I don't like having what I think to be my two worst scum games (popcorn and Hard-boiled) and my worst town game on site (Polygamist) being used as a meta-point against me.
that, combined with the fact that you flipped from weak-town to full out scum before we could even speak to you and when we promised that we will talk to you when given the time to irritated me and not being able to do much about it sucked.

what do you think of the points I stated about Khan?

specifically, the setting up mis-lynches, his response to that, how he tries to deflect from that being used against him, and how the battle between us started?

I would like answer to the above from Nacho as well.

and Nero.

and I'm still waiting for responses to this

well we were town reading khan so

but lets say khan is scum.

I think his nixing fery's attempts at rounding up town and his confusion of red/thez is scummy. yeah it is not in the realm of impossibility that he is scum.

and if you guys are town then yeah that would lend weight to me thinking he is scummy. if mara is town I actually trust her scumdar.

he read as town to me cos of the content of his posts. he isn't misstepping much. I am not ruling it out but we have to take in your posts too.

[ffullisade]

Is Amethyst Kitty using humor as a town-tell? Seriously?

Fair, but I actually found the rest of it somewhat convincing, or at the very least genuine from AK. Anything to say about that?

I only skimmed it. I'm a little buzzed right now.

Please don't be intentionally obtuse it isn't cute

How about Amethyst Kitty playing Buzzword Bingo? Is that cute?

bulba has been playing buzzword bingo all game what do you think of that

<<< Fixed a tag. Oh, and also...THE MEMORIES. THE HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE MEMORIES! >>>

[ffullisade]

ak I am trying to entertain the idea that you are town. wat is your deal here.

[ffullisade]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

ffery, I read this game and I don't think Seanald is scum here.
Do you agree or am I reading too much into his approach?

The vengeball game is the only game that I've played with Seanald so I don't have a town baseline. His posts in this game are different though. Not as defeatest. More aggressive. More opinionated.

By nature, it seems that vengeball is intense and posture-y in some of the same ways as popcorn mafia, which leaves scum players with a limited and dangerous repertoire (from my perspective as someone who is terrible with scum roles). I am not sure how good a vengeball-informed scum baseline will be in pointing up scum behaviors in other games.

Do you think vengeball scum play generalizes to other games?

I'm not comfortable voting him today.

[ffullisade]

they're town.

I figured that out, but I can't remember if Mollie and I are in agreement. I think so.

I wasn't sure what the stuff about the Donner Party game was about because Mala was scum in that game. Maybe it's an unrelated thought.

[ffullisade]

Based on capitalization I'm guessing fery...did you research Seanald like you said it would? Because your post gives the opposite impression.

Yeah it's me. I'm not all that careful about capitalization, but you'll never ever see "cos" or "<--------- blah blah" in one of my posts.

Besides this one, I guess.

I did read Seanald's ISO in this game and in another town game last week and compared that with the vengeball game that we recently completed. The meta, especially the experiential meta is why I'm not comfortable with his lynch. I don't know if that kind of analysis is of interest to you, but I'll be glad to bore...uh...elaborate if you want.

I'm thinking about PeregrineV. I've only played one game with him - my second game at MS. I found him to be a fairly easy town read in that game. He hasn't been obvtown in this game, but it's larger and there are a lot more moving parts.

[ffullisade]

Bulbazak - 1 (Nero Cain)
Bulbazak - 1 (Human Destroyer)

HD, you need to switch your vote to the Bulbazak that I'm voting. That other Bulb is town as fuck.

lol'd

- f

[ffullisade]

tbh I wanna lynch rena. especially with that last post.

I don't give a shit if she is a claimed watcher cos it is kind of obvious she isn't even reading the game if she is asking who has claimed so far. <----- I mean if you are a watcher shouldn't you be paying attention so you know who to watch?

she has been steadily ticking mine, nero's and slaandy's scumdar and probably just needs to be lynched.

@ thad

who is in your town pile. I would like to know plz.

@ ak

back to khan. I am not address all of your points and I hope that won't annoy you. I keep going back to khan shutting down fery's attempts to form a town core and I don't like it. when he did this fery and I more or less chalked it up to him being concerned but his actions do not reflect that concern cos he seems to be voting with people who he thinks are town in lieu of coming up with an independent case of his own.