NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Nero Cain]

So Angel is worried about where my "fake" vig goes.

[Nero Cain]

Angel scum trying to figure out who I want to target. lol

[Nero Cain]

I'll let the mod tell me your alignment. Thank you.

[Nero Cain]

The wagon on me is probably scum driven.

Who was scum the scum driving your wagon?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Shouldn't you have another power?

[Nero Cain]

his wagon went pretty fast though which always creeps me out.

[Nero Cain]

lol. AK hammered. I am so fake vigging that tonight.

[Nero Cain]

ppft. I thought that Kitty hammered

[Nero Cain]

Also, it's like deflectception with you... Do you think that Kitty's scummy, and you want me to look at her instead? Is that it?

I don't think you know what a deflection is. Asking a player a question to see if their reads are manufactured or genuine is not a deflection. You can't both deflect and answer a question at the same time.

Am I supposed to base my scumhunting on what someone else thinks now? That's a sad defense. "Well, he doesn't think so, therefore it's not valid." Let's stick with the actual points, shall we.

Also, there are a lot of other things going on, why are you obsessed with something that is admittedly minor in the grand scheme of this game, instead of paying attention to what is going on now and actively scumhunting?

KK is a pretty strong town read for you. I would think you might listen to your town reads.

And if think that I haven't been scumhunting this game then you are a moron.

[Nero Cain]

all that scum hunting from the Haylen slot.

vote: Haylen/Rena

[Nero Cain]

but Nero isn't scum. How can he explain something that isn't true?

[Nero Cain]

Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

[Nero Cain]

You rather me vote for you over other scum read in Haylen. Why?

[Nero Cain]

Bahzinga

this is the towniest that you have sounded all game.

no, that's a scum claim from Nacho.

I vote scumHaylen in 3385.

Nacho votes me 'cause we are "Both are generally solid votes." + it means that his "scum read" on Thad wasn't very strong and likely made up 'cause there was no reason to switch.

He then says "You don't have a scumread on me that's strong enough for you to vote me."

Which is totally untrue 'cause day 1 was voting him and day 2 Thez was outted scum so meh.

I then tell him that I'm voting another scum read.

The Haylen scumread which I never had?

This quote has absolutely nothing to do with anything and isn't a valid response. + it contradicts 3388. Why would he call Rena a solid vote if he didn't have a scum read?

[Nero Cain]

By both are solid votes, I meant you and ThAd.

So why switch? You weren't getting any Thad support?

You're acting like the one on me is stronger, so I wonder why you're voting her over me.

What would I ever do without you? Thank you for telling me what *I* think. I have scum reads on both of you and I'm not picky in who we lynch.

Okay, I want to hear Nero Cain's Haylen/Rena case. Is it more than just "no scumhunting"?

No, not really. I mean this looks like scum lurking to me. + I like what Cephir pulled up.

Is nero easy to push on because he's not very charismatic? Yup

This sounds like something Mastin would say.

I'll get to bulb later.

[Nero Cain]

Nero, I also asked you to quote your point about Kitty doing the same thing in the same post. Ergo, I was giving you the opportunity to defend your side of the argument and put me in the hotseat by having to defend mine or concede the point. I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt, because maybe you had a point. Instead, you blatantly attack me for even suspecting you. By actually quoting and asking me the question from there, you would have shown an eagerness to actually scumhunt and get to the point of this entire conversation, which I imagine is to develop a read on me, but you were more interested in attacking me and defending yourself instead, as if you shouldn't be suspected whatsoever. So, yeah, you're deflecting. You're refusing to actually discuss the point, seeking instead to discredit me. And because of all this, you are a strong scumread.

So you think I'd just make up something that never happened? lol Just 'cause I'm lazy and don't feel like playing quote mine mafia doesn't mean that I'm refusing to discuss things with you. I think your attack on me is weaksause and I therefore called you on it. I don't know if you are scum attacking me or town. I find it utterly pathetic that you are whining about being called out on a shit case.


Are you the last blue?

@Nero:

4/13 - I don't see it as a huge wagon. You are flipping out over stupid shit. You are trying to sling mud yet you don't call out Bacade for his 5th vote ON Nacho?

What is your read on Bcade?

Okay, I want to hear Nero Cain's Haylen/Rena case. Is it more than just "no scumhunting"?

No, not really. I mean this looks like scum lurking to me. + I like what Cephir pulled up.

You mean Fuzzy liking a cute fox picture?

This is an absurd simplification and blatantly ignores the relevant parts of the case

This.

[Nero Cain]

Nacho, what made you switch your vote from Thad to me?

[Nero Cain]

So why are we lynching me? Because you know not giving reasons to allow the person to defend themselves is as scummy as hell, right?

My god I want this dead.

[Nero Cain]

Asking for a case isn't scummy

, but I could do without the OMGUS that came with it.

tell that to KOC.

Though its not like reasons haven't been given.

[Nero Cain]

*head explodes*

I never said anything about you not asking for a case.

[Nero Cain]

So why haven't you delivered?

Why waste my time quote mining and writing up a case when you are doing a bang up job of convincing others that you should be lynched?

[Nero Cain]

I lol'd

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-voutecount >>>

Rena - 5 (Nero Cain, Cephrir, ffullisade, Seanald, Desperado)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Bacde)
Nero Cain - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Bacde - 1 (Kublai Khan)
Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Slandaar)
ffullisade - 1 (Bulbazak)
Cephrir - 1 (ArcAngel9)

Not Voting - 7 (CrashTextDummie, PeregrineV, penguin_alien, ThAdmiral, Rena, Amethyst Kitty, Om the Destroyer)

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Monday, July 1st, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-01 12:30:00).

Bulbazak is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.

[Nero Cain]

I read that Kublai and ignored it because bullshitz

but if you read that why are you pretending like no reasons have been given?

[Nero Cain]

If you are the golden townie then I'm a millionaire.

[Nero Cain]

So you think I'd just make up something that never happened?

I never said that.

So if you didn’t think that I was making it it up why asking me for a quote?

And I JUST quoted AK’S post since quotes are so goddamn important to you so what’s your response?

I still think that Haylen/Rena is still very possible sum, even with the claim but THIS is liar scum.

Nacho, what made you switch your vote from Thad to me?

your "scumcho is voting him, so he's probably town" post.

I made the post that Nacho is referring to in 3398 however, Nacho made the vote change 10 posts earlier in 3388 in what looks like, IMO, a chainsaw of Haylen. So Nacho is clearly lying about why she decided to switch.

Still think its a possibility that Bcade was early distancing from scumCho. Bulb is being majorly stupid and could be scum I guess. Thad could be scum given Hanzo_5 and Rena is still all kinds of yuck. But these are all probable scum and I rather lynch a sure thing.

vote:Nacho

[Nero Cain]

nope, we are killing liar scum Nacho today.

[Nero Cain]

In post 3533, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 3471, Nero Cain wrote:Nacho, what made you switch your vote from Thad to me?

your "scumcho is voting him, so he's probably town" post.

I made the post that Nacho is referring to in 3398 however, Nacho made the vote change 10 posts earlier in 3388 in what looks like, IMO, a chainsaw of Haylen. So Nacho is clearly lying about why she decided to switch.

[Nero Cain]

Still think its a possibility that Bcade was early distancing from scumCho.

Do you really think this?

I'm so amazed by this I just need you to confirm that you actually think this

yep, scum never ever attack each other. Its so silly for me to think they do.

[Nero Cain]

Oh like your posts are full of kind patient resolve.

After any scum lynch town should always ask themselves "Was this a bus?" "Were the interactions between these players town on scum or scum on scum?"

[Nero Cain]

Why would town Nacho lie about why she switched her vote?

[Nero Cain]

Nacho claims she switched her vote to me b/c of a post that was made

AFTER

she already switched her vote ergo she lied.

[Nero Cain]

Nacho claims he switched his vote to me b/c of a post that was made

AFTER

he already switched his vote ergo he lied.

fixed pronouns. lol

[Nero Cain]

all that scum hunting from the Haylen slot.

vote: Haylen/Rena

all that scum hunting from the Haylen slot.

vote: Haylen/Rena

Vote: Nero Cain

Both are generally solid votes.

Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

Nacho, what made you switch your vote from Thad to me?

your "scumcho is voting him, so he's probably town" post.

[Nero Cain]

I misremembered that post because I was talking about it with it.
But the post I voted you for is quoted in my votepost.

you actually think that my vote on Rena is a scumtell?!?

[Nero Cain]

I don't think so. Given that they have history, it looks more like scum-Bacde obfuscating any potential read that Nachomamma8 can get on him.

Eh, Nacho looks like scum to me. I guess they could be scum from different teams.

[Nero Cain]

The big difference between this quote and what you did is in tone. Kitty's question is more about the standards of the one questioning her, rather than pointing attention towards someone who did something similar. She is also not as offended with the inquiry as you were when Khan asked his question. Finally, in this instance, she is actually being called scum by you, whereas Khan was just asking a simple question and had not made any accusation, which makes your freakout even more suspicious.

And for those who are curious themselves, here is Nero's response to Khan again:

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:its also likely multiball

How in the world can town make this assumption on Day 1?

Its a 24 player game an current site meta suggest more than 1 killing faction. 6 scum seems the ideal number, weather its a 5 man scum team and a sk or two 3 man scum teams.

But all of Slandaar, Bcade and Bulb have speculated that its multiball as well. Why is this a sin for me but not them?

+ why am I not on your town list?

You think there's a difference in our "deflects" 'cause I'm calling her scum?!? But this is still very much incorrect. The Mala head DID have a scum read on me and Mara was even ok with it until recently.

Kitty did the EXACT same thing as me. I called her fourth vote on Nacho (and her "oh I didn't know there was a Nacho wagon") opportunistic. Her questioning me about why I didn't call out Bcade for his 5th vote (despite him already being on the wagon therefore he wasn't the 5th vote) is no different then my questioning KK over why he didn't question others that were setup speculating.

Also, context says that Khan was light calling me scummy.

[Nero Cain]

it was a lazy bullshit vote. there are a lot of slots that haven't done shit to scumhunt (ThAd's is a big one), but why do you single out Rena?

yeah 'cause I haven't been scumreading that slot since day 1. Fucking die scum.

[Nero Cain]

I did.

[Nero Cain]

I still think that Haylen/Rena is still very possible sum, even with the claim

you were saying, Mollie?

[Nero Cain]

Given the thezmon221 lynch, it's very unlikely Bacde is bluescum. So Bacde would have to be redscum. So, is Nachomamma8 bluescum?

sure

[Nero Cain]

???????????????????????????

*sigh*

I find Nacho scummy. Bacde is playing different then I've seen him as town + it looks like he's being pretty fickle. Weather they are bussing or from different scum teams, I don't really care. Its also possible that one is town (bcade?) and the other is scum.

[Nero Cain]

Are you like sane? You ask how I've seen you play as town and then you proceed to note that we've played together but I'm pretty sure its still ongoing so I'm not going to talk about it.

[Nero Cain]

You were scumreading Fuzzy's slot for "not scumhunting", while not scumreading ActionDan for "not scumhunting" or Hanzo for "not scumhunting" or ThAd for "not scumhunting".

except there were plenty of other reasons given and you'd know this if you weren't scum lurking. Sure in

THAT

post the only thing I said had to do with Rena's lack of scumhunting but like I said, I've suspected that slot since day 1.

[Nero Cain]

We aren't shooting or lynching me at all. Bcade and Nacho want me dead for shit all reason and it makes me paranoid.

[Nero Cain]

.....................

my point is that there's no reason at all to suspect me other than the fact that I suspect both of you so it looks like nothing more than OMGUS. wHY DO YOU SUSPECT ME bACDE?

[Nero Cain]

.....................

my point is that there's no reason at all to suspect me other than the fact that I suspect both of you so it looks like nothing more than OMGUS. wHY DO YOU SUSPECT ME bACDE?

I dunno, I don't particularly suspect you beyond OMGUS (especially because I don't understand why you have had a continuing suspicion of me for a few days)

but Nacho is a good scumhunter, and he suspects you

so I figure if we flip nacho and he winds up town you'd be a good vig shot

but I'm willing to substitute in your place its not a big deal especially since I'm pretty sure nacho is scum

are you being defensive right now? Its hard for me to tell whats going on inside your head

yep, only town would want to get mislynched/vigged. I'm so scummy for not wanting to waste a lynch/vig shot.

This whole "Nacho is a good scumhunter so he as town has to be correct about Nero." is nothing but a big pile of bullshit and potential chain lynching. It also seems incredibly lazy.

Who are your top 4 scum reads?

[Nero Cain]

Again, the difference is that Kitty was asking about YOUR motivations, while you asked Khan why he didn't look elsewhere

.......................................................





there is no fucking difference!!!

[Nero Cain]

Again, the difference is that Kitty was asking about YOUR motivations, while you asked Khan why he didn't look elsewhere

.......................................................





there is no fucking difference!!!

Saying "Nuh Uh!!!" is not a rebuttal.

It was the same question. I asked KK why he wasn't looking at the others (note one of those others flipped scum) AK asked my why I wasn't looking at Bacde. It was the same thing and you pretending like it wasn't is massively stupid. This is scum with Nacho.

[Nero Cain]

I need to start taking notes.

Thad is in a neighborhood with PV AND he's a 2 shot vig?

Rena is a claimed watcher that visited OM n1 and Bcade n1 2?

CTD is in ANOTHER neighborhood?

Didn't we have a third claimed neighborhood?

[Nero Cain]

Thad claims X-Shot, not 2-Shot

this is correct.

I'm think THAD is scum based on his role claim but the extra kills could be useful. I don't think I want to kill him today.

[Nero Cain]

Why do you waffle on me Mollie? I might be ok with an AK lynch, but if AK flips scum we are deff killing Bulb.

[Nero Cain]

I don't like his push on the Rena slot because it's lazy as fuck and scummy.

So why was it not scummy on days 1 and 2? Why was my attack on Rena scummy but you didn't question any of the other players that followed me onto Rena?

He was attacking fuzzy for "not scumhunting" D1

I'm relatively certain that I wasn't. Though I did find it scummy when he claimed he was way back on page 3. That looked like some hardcore stalling.

and his suspicion of Bacde "this is not like the town Bacde I KNOW" even thought he doesn't really have any experience with him in the first place is just terrible.

We've played in one game together, I want to say two games but I can't think of the other. So yes, I have experience with him but I wouldn't call myself an expert or anything.

His backdown from his scumslip on me when Khan questioned him on his thoughts of a me-Bacde partnership smelled fake, as does his reasons shifting from LIAR SCUM to "I'm just paranoid because they suspected me for no reason ".

lol no. My read on you has never waivered.

I thought Bulb was scum with me, not AK.

IDK, I think all three of you are scummy. This whole "guess who my buddies are" is just cheeky scum trying to squirm out of a lynch.

[Nero Cain]

Multiball is completely different to a one scum team game most people's posting will improve drastically in multiball as scum.

What was this a reply to?

[Nero Cain]

Would you hush?

his reasons for suspecting people aren't the best and he often thinks that the most anti-town player is scummy.

Somewhere over in MD Mastin has said two things, that town will always post scummy things and that what's scummy for one player isn't always scummy for another player.

I mean maybe my tells are a lil' dated since site meta seems to have shifted to "I'm going to play scummy regardless, now guess my alignment." Fuck, even OS (and Mastin?) has said he plays a little (I think its more like ALOT) scummy as town.

As for OS, I think I made it clear that he was prob town but that I didn't actually care if he died.

but whatever, I don't give a fuck what you think.

[Nero Cain]

So you think the Cephir is redscum hunting the blue team or is there more?

[Nero Cain]

hrmmmm...hrmmm...I'm trying to decide if this is scum or "too stupid to be scum"

It was the same question. I asked KK why he wasn't looking at the others (note one of those others flipped scum) AK asked my why I wasn't looking at Bacde. It was the same thing and you pretending like it wasn't is massively stupid. This is scum with Nacho.

Let's look at them side by side:

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:its also likely multiball

How in the world can town make this assumption on Day 1?

Its a 24 player game an current site meta suggest more than 1 killing faction. 6 scum seems the ideal number, weather its a 5 man scum team and a sk or two 3 man scum teams.

But all of Slandaar, Bcade and Bulb have speculated that its multiball as well. Why is this a sin for me but not them?

+ why am I not on your town list?

It's all about the wording with your post. You are not asking about Khan's criteria for questioning you. You are instead asking him why he's not questioning 3 other players. Look at how you phrase it: "Why is this a sin for me but not them?", with "sin" being the key word. You are hereby implying that Slaandar, Bacde, and myself should also be considered scummy and that Khan should look at us. You then follow this up with "Why am I not on your town list?", AKA "Why do you not think I am town? I should have town points from you, especially given the scummy people I just handed to you.". Compare this to Kitty's post, who you also diverted attention to in a like manner:

@Nero:

4/13 - I don't see it as a huge wagon. You are flipping out over stupid shit. You are trying to sling mud yet you don't call out Bacade for his 5th vote ON Nacho?

Her focus is not on being proved townie, it is about you and your criteria. When she asks about Bacde, she is not trying to divert attention to him. Instead, she is asking about your criteria for your scumtell, which seems to be opportunistic. You are the focus of that last sentence, not Bacde, whereas Khan was not the subject of your post. Also, your entire post was on that one subject, whereas this question to you made up only a small part of Kitty's post. Here's the rest:

The question we've been discussing is bolded. She's clearly not sweating your attack on her, and given the context, this confirms her question being about your criteria, instead of diverting attention elsewhere. In fact, this post shows that she is clearly scumhunting. It reminds me why I was townreading her early in the game.

I might be ok with an AK lynch, but if AK flips scum we are deff killing Bulb.

This should be interesting. Do explain.

Khan calls me out for speculating on the setup. If he thought it was scummy for me to speculate, why did he not call out the others that were setup speculating? Ergo I'm questioning why he found my setup speculation to be scummy and trying to determine if he's being honest.


I call out Mara/Mala whomever out on their 4th vote on Nacho. She says "hey, why didn't you call out Bacde?"



Even though they are worded differently they are still the same question and the fact the you are trying so hard to make it out to be different is extremely discomforting.


A lot of this is just assumptions. Like your whole "the reason Nero asked Khan why Khan wasn't townreading him is 'cause Nero expected town points for pointing out that others were speculating on the setup." And your whole "Nero's focus was to get town read." Just WTF?


Lets talk about context here. When AK questioned me as to why I suspect them but not Bacde, his vote wasn't even the fifth vote? Why do you think its townish of her to deflect to a vote that wasn't actually there?


The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

I'm relatively certain that I wasn't. Though I did find it scummy when he claimed he was way back on page 3. That looked like some hardcore stalling.

Seems pretty trutful to me considering he ended up replacing out not too long after.

Yep, my bad. The slot is obvious town 'cause scum NEVER replace out.

Nero, what is your read on Arc?

null with a scum lean

We also don't know if there's a red scum team or if its just a SK

yeah 'cause Mastin would so totally troll us by naming a team when there's no point to do so unless there's more than one team.

Nero Cain's stance on ThAd is just as bad. He flat out stated that he thought ThAd was scum, but that he should be kept around "because he could be useful". From a town-perspective, I can't follow this reasoning at all; if you think someone is scum, you lynch them. An additional killing role has just as much or even more of a potential to further devastate the town than it has to be "useful", and if you actually think the player in question is scum there's no reason to believe that their actions are going to be in town's favor.

Nero-scum knows if ThAd is going to be useful to him based on the people he expressed a willingness to shoot. It's exactly the kind of stance scum would want to take if they're not aligned with the people in the crosshair. Keeping ThAd lynchable ("I think he is scum") while letting him do your dirty work. Unlike every other person who's waffled on ThAd,

he doesn't want to keep him alive so he can prove his claim or because he actually believes the claim, but simply so he can be "useful".

Yeah 'cause those 2 extra lynches via kill sure wouldn't help town at all. Its not the first time I've been willing to leash a scum (sk?) killing power. Thad is obviously lying/trolling about being a neighbor AND a vig. That last line is fucking horrible.

What is YOUR Thad read?

<<< Double-post deleted. I would advise you to think about what factors are present whenever you do double-post, to see if you can isolate your problem and eliminate it. >>>

[Nero Cain]

maybe he was only claiming vig to live another day, is scum, and knows he's dying tomorrow when no kill shows up... but that still isn't a reason to lynch him. I don't know what we should do if he won't quit trolling, like, I've never been in a situation like this before and I just don't know how to respond to it.

my suggestion is to just let it simmer. Maybe scum will be scared of him and kill him for us, idk. Its something we might need to address before lylo though.

In the meantime we should give him a list of acceptable vig targets.

I think you are red scum and there is someone on your team who is coaching you

Are you suggesting that the red scum team has day talk?

It's official. Bulbazak isn't scum. Same for ffullisade.

I disagree. This is actually a kinda scummy post 'cause scum coach in the thread all the time and I think that's what was being said.

+ Bulb is lurking pretty hardcore.

Nero, how is Thad obviously lying about being a neighbor and a vig?

So you have two roles too? I've seen where a masonship/neighborhood shares a power but I don't think that's a normal mechanic.

[Nero Cain]

lol

[Nero Cain]

mara

[Nero Cain]

.........................................................................................

WORST TOWN EVER!!!!

I'm being voted for a bunch of fucking nothingness. Jesus Christ.

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain - 5 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie,

Desperado, Bacde, Ffullisade

)

at least one of these are scum.

When I flip town you guys should lynch the shit out the middle of my wagon.

[Nero Cain]

I know it looks OMGUSy but in that WWE game I was town reading the shit out of Despo but he's actually playing pretty pro-town this game, so idk, maybe he is scum. Nevertheless, both his and Ffulls votes were extremely opportunistic.

[Nero Cain]

never said that but nice try scum.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

He implied it but no, no I'm not.

[Nero Cain]

no, I still think Nacho is scum.

[Nero Cain]

the part where I didn't receive a scum pm.

[Nero Cain]

I think some of the observations are fed up with stupid but at the end of the day all that matters is that his conclusions are wrong.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

I'm typing it now. Why are you rushing me?

[Nero Cain]

like 4219 was not snarky and needlessly aggressive. You think I am red scum?

[Nero Cain]

So you have two roles too? I've seen where a masonship/neighborhood shares a power but I don't think that's a normal mechanic.

How is this revelant, and explain why it's *not* role-fishing.

Its relevant 'cause Despo asked me about why I thought Thad was lying. Its not rolefishing 'cause I didn't ask him to claim anything.

The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

what does this even mean

"you think a person who other people find scummy is town? RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE"

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

Enter other Nacho quotes

I also have no idea where the multiball assertion came from (completely out of nowhere)

A basic understanding of large game site meta. Stop being dumb.

Nero accused Arc of being scummy because she wanted to know who he would fake vig and that was rolefishing apparently... I figured he was trolling because the reasoning was so bad, but apparently not.

and why do you think that town Angel would care about my fake vig?

He can vote for mislynches when I'm voting them because it's probably multiball. But when I'm attacking someone he doesn't want me to attack, he can call him town because I'm attacking them. That's convenient as fuck and I don't really see how town-Nero could ever have a thought process like this.

context is important here. ⅔ blue scum are dead. This means there’s only one blue scum left. Unless you are claiming to be the last blue scum (and therefore hunting redscum) then he does have a much higher chance of being town.

And now he's talking about how his read on Fuzzy is as strong as his read on me, but. He's been voting me the entire game...

So? I can have a scum read on more than one person. You are doing it so why are you being a hypocrite. This is also a lie ‘cause I started out both day 2 and 3 voting for Rena.

To be clear, he attacked fuzzy for stalling on page 3 and then attacked Hayrena for not scumhunting.

I actually attacked Rena for her push on the OS wagon. She was all "hey guys, its ok to lynch her she's not the golden townie" And now she’s doing nothing but coasting.

Nero getting paranoid about me doesn't make sense, considering he's been scumreading me the entire game.

That’s ‘cause I wasn’t “getting” paranoid about you two.

Bacde says that he'll probably suspect Nero if I'm vigged and flipped town, Nero flips the fuck out.

Yea ‘cause Bacade’s “Nacho is a good scumhunter so Nero has to be scum” made so much sense. I know that I’m town so any lynch/vig shot on me would be a waste. But I guess you’ll be ok with getting lynched/vigged when I flip town right?

Nero's response to me saying that fuzzy being lost was genuine since he replaced out immediately after, and Nero Cain overreacts.

That was NOT was was said. I was obviously being sarcastic.

end

Kills carried out by scum are not extra lynches.

yeah, I'm pretty sure that they still die. If we all said "hey Thad, shoot from this pile." Does it really matter whether the shot is town aligned or sk aligned?

[Nero Cain]

I'll be back later with a list of reads so you guys know who to kill after mislynching me.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Why are you looking only at New York games?

You know what those games with one killing faction have in common? A larger playerbase.

[Nero Cain]

erm....that should be smaller playerbase.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Ima let Mastin fix my tags 'cause I'm lazy right now.

<<< You know, that's a VERY bad habit to have, 'cause it assumes I actually know how to fix your post. I'll do my best. >>>

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

Yes, because he was white knighting. That doesn't mean everyone who defends someone else is white knighting.

Its still a good possibility and its still selective scumhunting and Bulb is still probs scum.

A basic understanding of large game site meta. Stop being dumb.

You could talk about this a little more because we've all played in large normals before and they sure as hell aren't always multiball.

No one ever said anything about large normal and no one said anything about them being always multiball.

WWE-21 players/2 mafia factions
Gears of War-21 players/2 mafia factions
How 2 and a half friends-21 players 1 mafia faction and an sk "team"
Mainstream Mafia-30 players 1 mafia faction, a cult and a serial killer
meta playstyle mafia-20 players/1 mafia faction, 1 serial killer
Harry Potter-21 players 1 mafia faction/1 serial killer

BUT THOSE ARE THEME GAMES!!!

NY 161: single scum team
NY 160: scum team + SK
NY 151: scum team + SK
NY 143: two scum teams

So one game out of ten has more than one killing faction. So yeah, I think its always a pretty good bet that a 20+ player game will have more than one killing faction. Mind blowing, I know.

and why do you think that town Angel would care about my fake vig?

I don't know why. But I do think that she wouldn't be bold enough as scum to ask you about your fake vig if she thought you were a power role because she would be afraid you would turn it against her.

I could

maybe

see that.

context is important here. ⅔ blue scum are dead. This means there’s only one blue scum left. Unless you are claiming to be the last blue scum (and therefore hunting redscum) then he does have a much higher chance of being town.

What makes me redscum?

What does that have to do with Thad?

So? I can have a scum read on more than one person. You are doing it so why are you being a hypocrite. This is also a lie ‘cause I started out both day 2 and 3 voting for Rena.

Then why do you still suspect Bacde? He's town if Haylen is voting him, right?

And what does that have to do with you lying that I never voted for Hayrena? Bacde is more a vibe then anything but I could sit down and point out some posts that have bothered me if you really care that much.

That’s ‘cause I wasn’t “getting” paranoid about you two.

Then what were you trying to say in that quote?

Nothing really just that I still suspect you two and this "oh yay, we suspect you 'cause you suspect us" isn't making me fee any better about you two.

Yea ‘cause Bacade’s “Nacho is a good scumhunter so Nero has to be scum” made so much sense. I know that I’m town so any lynch/vig shot on me would be a waste. But I guess you’ll be ok with getting lynched/vigged when I flip town right?

Bacde was saying that he could be lynched if I flipped town, but you didn't find issue in that. You only freaked out when he suggested you be shot on my townflip.

*shrugz* I can't stop a kill but idk, he's just coming from left field. In his own words he only suspects me 'cause I suspect him. I think it was strange as fuck for Bcade to all the sudden blurt out "if Nacho flips town lets kill Nero."

<<< Oh, and the double-post was deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Looks to me like caught scum who doesn't know what to say

So you think Sean is scum but you join his counterwagon? Gotta love that chain lynching.

[Nero Cain]

I like how you try to discredit me before addressing my points.

You have no points.

Lets talk about context here. When AK questioned me as to why I suspect them but not Bacde, his vote wasn't even the fifth vote? Why do you think its townish of her to deflect to a vote that wasn't actually there?

I'm not going to speculate on another player's motivation via vote counts, especially given Bacde's erratic history with his vote on the Nacho wagon.

*raises eyeybrow*

That's like half the point of this game; to speculate on players motives. But the question has NOTHING to do with Bcade and everything to do with AK using a "hey look over there defense".

The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

You were the one that asked me about AK's post from d1. I didn't find it scummy at the time, and I still don't now. I had actually come around to the opinion that AK was probably scum when you pointed me back to that post, which happened to remind me why I originally townread them in the first place. Ergo, you are responsible for my townread on the slot now.

Let me get this straight....You were town reading her and then when I pointed out her deflect you started scum reading them....which reminded you why you were town reading them. And I did something to make you town read them?

The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

what does this even mean

"you think a person who other people find scummy is town? RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE"

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

So I'm scum if AK flips scum, and I'm scum if AK flips town? Can you make up your mind, so I know exactly why I'm scum?

Well I have no clue what you are doing. Lets say for instance, if Ryu had flipped before OS. I'm pretty sure we'd have a group of players that would have thought that Ryu might have been defending a buddy and some that might think that Ryu was defending town for town cred. Town really has no way of knowing what scum are doing.

But we can kill it.

vote:Bulb

[Nero Cain]

Looks to me like caught scum who doesn't know what to say

So you think Sean is scum but you join his counterwagon? Gotta love that chain lynching.

Did you even read the question that penguin asked me?

I did, which has shit all to do with voting a counter wagon.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Angel, what is your Bulb read?

[Nero Cain]

of course he's not town. That's why you should be helping me lynch it.

[Nero Cain]

If its town why is it lying and putting words into my mouth? IDK, I'm waffling hard but there's other scum to take care of like Bulb and Bacde and maybe Cephir and Despo.

[Nero Cain]

holy loaded question batman. How on earth would I know his alignment?

The slot is an it.

[Nero Cain]

Whiteknight Nacho more, scum.

[Nero Cain]

Whiteknight Nacho more, scum.

So Nacho is officially town for you now?

not really, its more null. Everyone is town reading him so maybe I'm wrong. + I'm doing my reads list and there are other slots that need more attention. If I told lies like him I'd be lynched ASAP. So whatever, if he's scum town has lost anyways.

[Nero Cain]

The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

what does this even mean

"you think a person who other people find scummy is town? RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE"

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

So I'm scum if AK flips scum, and I'm scum if AK flips town? Can you make up your mind, so I know exactly why I'm scum?

Well I have no clue what you are doing. Lets say for instance, if Ryu had flipped before OS. I'm pretty sure we'd have a group of players that would have thought that Ryu might have been defending a buddy and some that might think that Ryu was defending town for town cred. Town really has no way of knowing what scum are doing.

But we can kill it.

vote:Bulb

You accuse Bulb of being scum defending scum.
Then you accuse him of being scum defending town.
Then you get called out on it.
Your response is that you have no idea what he's doing but he's scum anyways because scum defended another player.
Fuck no.

Sans an AK, there's simply not enough information. All I know is that Bulb is defending the fuck out of AK. I think Bulb is scum and that's all that really matters to me.

[Nero Cain]

No one ever said anything about large normal and no one said anything about them being always multiball.

The games you listed don't really show a strong trend towards multiball/not multiball. So why did you end up assuming that it was multiball?

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:its also likely multiball

How in the world can town make this assumption on Day 1?

Its a 24 player game an current site meta suggest more than 1 killing faction. 6 scum seems the ideal number, weather its a 5 man scum team and a sk or two 3 man scum teams.

All those games posted (besides posh) has more than 1 killing faction.

What does that have to do with Thad?

You just said ThAd isn't town if I'm blue scum, meaning that since you called him town, I'm assuming you have some reason for me being redscum. What is it?

no? I said THAD was likely town if you were scum ('cause at the time I thought you were redscum). And its shit like this that makes me think you are scum 'cause you keep misrepping and lying and all this stupid shit. You are not blue though since blue scum attacked you.

And what does that have to do with you lying that I never voted for Hayrena? Bacde is more a vibe then anything but I could sit down and point out some posts that have bothered me if you really care that much.

You're saying that your scumread on Haylen and your scumread on me is equal. So why can you clear ThAd for being attacked by me but you can't clear Bacde for being attacked by Haylen?

Why are you so concerned about having Bacde cleared?

[Nero Cain]

Looks to me like caught scum who doesn't know what to say

So you think Sean is scum but you join his counterwagon? Gotta love that chain lynching.

You are complaining about nacho misrepping you, but I think you are doing the same to desperado here. He had moved off the sean wagon well before he voted you, saying that he was unsure about it since none of his townreads had gotten on (4106). He then voted and unvoted ak before voting you later.

In fact desp has actually been looking good to me lately, I might have been wrong about him.

If it was, it wasn't intentional however, I do not believe this is a misrepresentation at all. I don't understand his point. It sounded to me like he believed that Sean ACTIONS were scummy, so if that's what he believes then why does he care if his town reads are not on said wagon. He could be wrong about those reads, those town reads could be wrong about Sean. I don't see how he gets "oh noes!!! town reads ain't joining the wagon so Sean might not be scum." I guess Desp needs to explain this to me kiddie style.

I thought desp looked good in the early game but lately he kinda stinks.

[Nero Cain]

I've been pushing Nero as scum since the end of d1 based on his deflection.

Which was no more of a "deflection" than Kitty's "ZOMG, LOOK AT THE FITH VOTE!!!" or Mollie's "U R DUMB!" or whatever fucktarded thing she said.

I mean, really. I asked Khan why he thought my setup speculation was scummy despite others doing it. That's no different then your view of Kitty asking my why I didn't find Bcade's 5th vote (THAT WASN'T EVEN A VOTE!!!) scummy/opportunistic.

and now that I'm the leading wagon your vote is where? That's right. You aren't voting. Which is a big reason why I'm reading you as scum, I've been your #1 suspect since day 2 and instead of being overjoyed and hopping on my wagon you are tentative as fuck to vote me wich doesn't strike me as town in the least.

please die scum.

To save me the headache, is Arc your scumbuddy 'cause she's calling you scum but doesn't want to lynch you today?

please vote for Bulb Slandaar.

[Nero Cain]

That's like half the point of this game; to speculate on players motives. But the question has NOTHING to do with Bcade and everything to do with AK using a "hey look over there defense".

First, you were asking me about player motives based on votes that may or may not exist, from Bacde no less. Bacde's voting history has been eratic, and I really don't want to get into this, especially in a conversation that's about YOU, not AK. Second, AK was not using a "hey look over there defense", she was asking about your motives and criteria.

This is extremely relevant to our conversation/argument. If YOU think that she was asking me about my motives then its a fair question to ask you why she felt that I should have called out Bacade on his "5th vote"

Sixteenth Votecount: (AKA, the "Times are a changin, votes are a not" votecount)
Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)

As you can see, bacde was already on the Nacho wagon and therefore his revote was NOT the 5th vote.

YOU are claiming that this was not a deflect and her asking about my motives. I'm calling bullshit on this 'cause Bacde didn't even have the 5th vote on the Nacho wagon and so Kitty's post looks like nothing more than a "hey look over there" post 'cause I find it very very hard for Mala to legit believe that I should have found his post scummy/opportunistic when he wasn't even the 5th vote.

So explain to me how she was asking about motive and criteria based on a not actual vote.

On d2, you brought up AK as a means to redirect the conversation

No. I brought it up 'cause you are scumreading me based on a "deflection". I wanted to know if you thought that deflections are scummy (which you seem to imply) why are you not looking at ALL the deflections. There is no fucking way that Mala was asking about my motives, and even if she really was (and just didn't understand that Bacde was not the 5th vote, which is why I didn't find it scummy) my asking Khan why he wasn't scumreading other setup speculators is not different.

This tells me that you are specifically attacking me, weather you think I'm a soft target or if weather I'm scumreading a buddy of yours, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are selectively scumhunting me and I want to know why you find my "deflect scummy" but not Mollies or Kitties?

Well I have no clue what you are doing. Lets say for instance, if Ryu had flipped before OS. I'm pretty sure we'd have a group of players that would have thought that Ryu might have been defending a buddy and some that might think that Ryu was defending town for town cred. Town really has no way of knowing what scum are doing.

You're right, it's not unusual for 2 different groups of players to see the same action differently. It IS unusual, however, for the SAME player to see the SAME action 2 different ways at the SAME time. It is not a natural mode of thought, and therefore it is scummy, as you are trying to leave as many options open as possible in order to achieve a mislynch. Misrep harder next time.

I think your defense of Kittens is scummy. Weather they are town and you are defending them for cred or they are your scumbuddy doesn't really matter to me and we'll cross that bridge after you flip scum. The point is that, your defense of the slot looks scummy to me and that I and no one (besides the mods and your maybe scumbuddy) but you know if you are scum defending scum or scum defending town.

[Nero Cain]

Nero is doing stuff now he's people think he's scum for being useless.

???????

Are you faking drunkposts again?

Also, if you think I'm being voted for being useless then you are obviously not paying attention. I hate that you rolled a scum pm 'cause now you'll be able to coast.

[Nero Cain]

no, not really. Which is why I asked you to explain it but instead you are defensive. Why?

Unless you specifically think that there are certain players on the wagon that are scum then I don't think it matters that your town reads aren't voting with you.

But I am correct in that you think Sean is scummy?

[Nero Cain]

It's made up almost exclusively of strong town reads. Nacho's case i think was a very solid piece of scumhunting and it's starting to really make me comfortable with him

So when I flip town, how will if affect those "strong town reads" and Nacho?

- His defense for dropping the D1 multiball tell is that he considers all 20+ player games likely multiball. But I've quoted an earlier post that's clearly designed to give the opposite impression, that Nero

didn't

just consider this game multiball without any supporting evidence. He didn't address this point at all because there is no defense for it. It's damning evidence.

no its really not. You've already pointed out that I use multiball interchangeably. I generally find Mala/Mara to be scummy. I did not know if we had scum team + sk or scum team + scumteam. If we had only one scumteam then it makes it mathematically less appealing to hunt the possible SK and I thought people like Nacho and Bcade were scummier.

My point about OS...when Sean pointed out some opportunistic/scummy votes on OS...with 4 days to go until deadline, I didn't think there was any reason to derail said wagon.

Also, current site meta suggests that large games have more than 1 killing faction. You and Nacho pretending like its soooo scummy for me to suggest that seems so silly to me.

- He's arguing back and forth about the merits of leaving a killing role alive, but he doesn't doesn't address the fact that he failed to do the one thing that actually makes the strategy feasible for town, the leashing. He meekly stated that we should give ThAd a pool of players to kill from, but only after I called him out.

So what am I supposed to do to leash him? Yell at him in all caps that if he shoots outside the acceptable targets 'cause he already knows that's how I feel. I've been giving my reads all day and deadline is a week away and there's no point in finalizing my pool this far away. Why are you so curious to see who I want vigged?

[Nero Cain]

I didn't like that Nero's push on OS came with so many "ignoring him? you must be scum with him" remarks.

I also never ever did this.

I don't know how yu guys have a town read on Nacho when this is like her third lie against me.

[Nero Cain]

CTD/Slandaar. Why have ya'll yet to summarize ya'lls qt?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

your bulb read, Mollie?

[Nero Cain]

So why do you think that townBulb would call us on our "deflects" but ignores and later defends Kitty without, his own words, not even knowing the circumstances?

[Nero Cain]

I'm still game to lynch nacho

hi scum. So nice to hear from you.

[Nero Cain]

I think he is dumb town. what bothers me is his complete lack of ability to take in new info and apply it. and I don't like the stickiness of his reads. <---- those last 2 things are things I usually find to be scummy.

If you usally find them scummy why do you have a dumb town read on him?

Idk, in the game that I played with him(bulb) he walled it up. That's why I had a town read on him in the early game 'cause I just totally ignored him and saw he was walling it up. His selectiveness of attacking my deflect and defending Kitty and even giving her a town read for her deflect. Maybe it really is too dumb to be scum.

[Nero Cain]

I'll call you by your real name after you flip scum.

[Nero Cain]

Whats your bulb read?

[Nero Cain]

I'm mainly looking at deflect gate but this

In post 4035, ffullisade wrote:I think you are red scum and there is someone on your team who is coaching you
Are you suggesting that the red scum team has day talk?

and this

Okay, I want to hear Nero Cain's Haylen/Rena case. Is it more than just "no scumhunting"?

No, not really. I mean this looks like scum lurking to me. + I like what Cephir pulled up.

You mean Fuzzy liking a cute fox picture?

seem pretty dumb to me.

+ there's the fact that he didn't vote scumThez which I find rather odd.

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain - 4 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie, Desperado, Cephrir)

Seanald - 4 (PeregrineV, ArcAngel9, ThAdmiral, penguin_alien)

If deadline were to hit now,

Nero Cain

would be lynched.

If deadline hits with no majority, the player with the most votes is lynched.

If there's a tie, the player who reached that number first is lynched.

AP, you are such an asshole. Abusing your mod powers like that.

<<< Crap, that's my bad. The votecount is correct, the wording in the rules post is wrong. The wording is meant for ascending wagons, not descending wagons. That is, if four votes appeared on two players, the person who got four votes first would be lynched. The wording did not take into account the reverse happening, with descending votes, where both had more, and now have less. I'll create a patch momentarily. >>>

[Nero Cain]

and just in case anyone doesn't realize that I'm obviously being sarcastic....

[Nero Cain]

Despo, are you voting me 'cause you think that I'm playing different then WWE + you agree with the Nacho case?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

which would justify some of the things I found scummy about your reaction to the Nacho case.

What did you find scummy and why are you not asking me about it?

[Nero Cain]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25658

here is a mafia Bulb game you guys can read. BBL

[Nero Cain]

I've been pushing Nero as scum since the end of d1 based on his deflection.

Which was no more of a "deflection" than Kitty's "ZOMG, LOOK AT THE FITH VOTE!!!" or Mollie's "U R DUMB!" or whatever fucktarded thing she said.

I mean, really. I asked Khan why he thought my setup speculation was scummy despite others doing it. That's no different then your view of Kitty asking my why I didn't find Bcade's 5th vote (THAT WASN'T EVEN A VOTE!!!) scummy/opportunistic.

and now that I'm the leading wagon your vote is where? That's right. You aren't voting. Which is a big reason why I'm reading you as scum, I've been your #1 suspect since day 2 and instead of being overjoyed and hopping on my wagon you are tentative as fuck to vote me wich doesn't strike me as town in the least.

please die scum.

Your actual refusal to read is irritating me so much that I'm starting to get a headache. When Seanald's wagon got to L-3, CTD asked to be given some time to make some final posts regarding the game. Therefore, I unvoted to give him the time he needed. Why would I, then, immediately turn around and vote you, who was reaching the same levels as Seanald, after I had unvoted in the first place in order to give CTD more time? That's why I asked CTD if he had finished making his final posts, especially since I saw him not only voting you, but moaning about your wagon slowing down. As soon as I find out he's finished with what he needed to do, I will be voting for you, as my scumread on your slot is stronger.

Ah, I see you are buddying CTD. Would you like help with that? (no one will get that)

I don't see any point in you not voting me when I'm not in danger of getting lynched so this whole "I'M CATERING TO CTD!" looks nothing more than buddying. What made me leapfrog over Sean?

That's like half the point of this game; to speculate on players motives. But the question has NOTHING to do with Bcade and everything to do with AK using a "hey look over there defense".

First, you were asking me about player motives based on votes that may or may not exist, from Bacde no less. Bacde's voting history has been eratic, and I really don't want to get into this, especially in a conversation that's about YOU, not AK. Second, AK was not using a "hey look over there defense", she was asking about your motives and criteria.

This is extremely relevant to our conversation/argument. If YOU think that she was asking me about my motives then its a fair question to ask you why she felt that I should have called out Bacade on his "5th vote"

Sixteenth Votecount: (AKA, the "Times are a changin, votes are a not" votecount)
Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)

As you can see, bacde was already on the Nacho wagon and therefore his revote was NOT the 5th vote.

YOU are claiming that this was not a deflect and her asking about my motives. I'm calling bullshit on this 'cause Bacde didn't even have the 5th vote on the Nacho wagon and so Kitty's post looks like nothing more than a "hey look over there" post 'cause I find it very very hard for Mala to legit believe that I should have found his post scummy/opportunistic when he wasn't even the 5th vote.

So explain to me how she was asking about motive and criteria based on a not actual vote.

But this conversation is not about AK's motivation at all. This is about your deflection onto 3 other players. I have explained in great detail the difference between your post and AK's, which you seem intent not to listen to. You have since been trying to steer the conversation away from the original point and onto AK herself, which is in and of itself a deflection, which you have claimed you are not doing.

As for the Bacde 5th vote point, Bacde actually reemphasized his vote after AK placed her vote on Nacho. AK could have easily thought that Bacde was the 5th vote, which was why she was asking about your criteria.

................................................................

........................................

.........

This is scum faking dumb town. period.

Bulb already IS discussing AK's motivation. He's saying it was her asking about MY criteria and casting it in a pr0-town light. I feel like if he's going to defend Kitty he should understand the context of what happened.

I asked Khan why he read my post as scum. Which is actually no different then AK asking me why I wasn't scumreading Bacade's "5th vote".

This tells me that you are specifically attacking me, weather you think I'm a soft target or if weather I'm scumreading a buddy of yours, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are selectively scumhunting me and I want to know why you find my "deflect scummy" but not Mollies or Kitties?

As I've repeatedly explained, AK wasn't deflecting, and I've explained this using everything from context to actual post structure. She asked about your criteria, and that question was a small part of a larger post, and therefore didn't hold as much weight. Your deflection was the main point of your post, as that was what the entire post was focused on. You were not asking about criteria, but why Khan wasn't looking elsewhere. You then proceeded to ask him why he did not read you as town. The entirety of your post was scummy, whereas AK's was not.

Are you now accusing Mollie of deflecting as well?

Are you reading this game at all?!? I accused Mollie of deflecting way back on day 1.

I think your defense of Kittens is scummy. Weather they are town and you are defending them for cred or they are your scumbuddy doesn't really matter to me and we'll cross that bridge after you flip scum. The point is that, your defense of the slot looks scummy to me and that I and no one (besides the mods and your maybe scumbuddy) but you know if you are scum defending scum or scum defending town.

What about my defense looks scummy?

lets see, the fact that context says AK wasn't asking about my criteria and even if she was and was just stupid for some reason, I'm asking Khan the same damn thing and your tring to make this into a "Nero did something different!"

I also find it odd that AK hasn't chimed in about this yet.

[Nero Cain]

Nero, you say Bulbazak defended something from AK that he found scummy on you. Given that you are obviously different players, and

we have 4000+ posts to work with

, why would you expect him to respond to both of you in the exact same way?

I don't understand what the bolded has to do with anything 'cause Bulb is arguing that my asking KK why he was specifically reading my setup speculation as scum but AK asking my why I wasn't scumreading Bacde for his "5th opportunistic vote" This is apples to apples and Bulb is trying to make it look like apples to oranges

Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

Why are you being intentionally vague here...again?

Yeah, CTD in combination with Nacho is pretty persuasive. And active scum is more dangerous to us than scum that's been MIA for a week+ if they're both scum.

UNVOTE: Seanald
VOTE: Nero Cain

lol no.

First of all, there is no "they are both scum". Its either Sean is scum or neither of us is scum. 2nd of all I really hate this "I'm going to proxy my vote". Not saying that town can't sheep but really, its just allowing scum to blend in.

[Nero Cain]

*swish* CTD wins! More Nero votes or an en-masse switch back to Seanald, please. They're both scum.

I'd prefer the en-masse switch back to seanald, but I'm actually ok with either wagon at this stage.

I'd prefer neither of us. My preferred lynched would be Bulb or Cephir. Half of me is like "I know I'm town so if I have to lynch Sean, whose alignment I do not know, then fine" but the other half is like "Well, my mislynch today would not hurt the town as much as it would down the road." So I don't really know what to do.

You should join me on Bulb.

[Nero Cain]

CTD/Slandaar. Why have ya'll yet to summarize ya'lls qt?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Please answer this.

[Nero Cain]

...

and everyone thinks Khan is town?

No one's even given me a town-case on Khan when I asked for it,

Mollie, I apologize for calling you stupid, though I don't like having what I think to be my two worst scum games (popcorn and Hard-boiled) and my worst town game on site (Polygamist) being used as a meta-point against me.
that, combined with the fact that you flipped from weak-town to full out scum before we could even speak to you and when we promised that we will talk to you when given the time to irritated me and not being able to do much about it sucked.

what do you think of the points I stated about Khan?

specifically, the setting up mis-lynches, his response to that, how he tries to deflect from that being used against him, and how the battle between us started?

I would like answer to the above from Nacho as well.

and Nero.

and I'm still waiting for responses to this

IDK, Khan's been a lil' lurky and his empty vote on me is suspect. He's a null read for me but I can reread ya'lls hissy fit and see what its all about.

[Nero Cain]

*shrugz* CTD said he wanted to and then he never did so I just wanted to know what was going on. Did you say no when he asked?

[Nero Cain]

Sorry for my absence the past day or so. I needed to take a break from Mafia for awhile.

Ah, I see you are buddying CTD. Would you like help with that? (no one will get that)

I don't see any point in you not voting me when I'm not in danger of getting lynched so this whole "I'M CATERING TO CTD!" looks nothing more than buddying. What made me leapfrog over Sean?

I am not buddying CTD, and saying so is a blatant misrepresentation. CTD is my, as well as everyone else's, strongest town read. My read on him is so strong that I trust him completely and consider him def. town. Therefore, if he says that he believes he's going to die, and he wants the time to post some final thoughts, I'm going to give them to him, as that is in the town's best interest.

As for switching from Sean to you,

that's simply because you're a stronger scumread than he is

, and I'm getting tired of your scummy hide existing.

Ok CTD is your strongest townread. So he tells you to unvote Sean. And Sean has what to do with me? Nothing. ok.

As per the bolded, at one point you did state that Sean and I were "about the same level of scumminess" then I just magically jumped in scumminess which I asked you why which you failed to address.

That's like half the point of this game; to speculate on players motives. But the question has NOTHING to do with Bcade and everything to do with AK using a "hey look over there defense".

First, you were asking me about player motives based on votes that may or may not exist, from Bacde no less. Bacde's voting history has been eratic, and I really don't want to get into this, especially in a conversation that's about YOU, not AK. Second, AK was not using a "hey look over there defense", she was asking about your motives and criteria.

This is extremely relevant to our conversation/argument. If YOU think that she was asking me about my motives then its a fair question to ask you why she felt that I should have called out Bacade on his "5th vote"

Sixteenth Votecount: (AKA, the "Times are a changin, votes are a not" votecount)
Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)

As you can see, bacde was already on the Nacho wagon and therefore his revote was NOT the 5th vote.

YOU are claiming that this was not a deflect and her asking about my motives. I'm calling bullshit on this 'cause Bacde didn't even have the 5th vote on the Nacho wagon and so Kitty's post looks like nothing more than a "hey look over there" post 'cause I find it very very hard for Mala to legit believe that I should have found his post scummy/opportunistic when he wasn't even the 5th vote.

So explain to me how she was asking about motive and criteria based on a not actual vote.

But this conversation is not about AK's motivation at all. This is about your deflection onto 3 other players. I have explained in great detail the difference between your post and AK's, which you seem intent not to listen to. You have since been trying to steer the conversation away from the original point and onto AK herself, which is in and of itself a deflection, which you have claimed you are not doing.

As for the Bacde 5th vote point, Bacde actually reemphasized his vote after AK placed her vote on Nacho. AK could have easily thought that Bacde was the 5th vote, which was why she was asking about your criteria.

................................................................

........................................

.........

This is scum faking dumb town. period.

Bulb already IS discussing AK's motivation. He's saying it was her asking about MY criteria and casting it in a pr0-town light. I feel like if he's going to defend Kitty he should understand the context of what happened.

I asked Khan why he read my post as scum. Which is actually no different then AK asking me why I wasn't scumreading Bacade's "5th vote".

I don't know the context? All I've been doing is going to great lengths to explain the context of the post. I've even shown the context, and compared AK's post with yours to show why they are different. The section of AK's post that you quoted was a small part of a whole, and her question was concerned on your criteria for judging a certain scumtell. Your post, on the other hand, is focused on that single point. You then point your finger at 3 other players, saying, "Why aren't they scummy as well?". Finally, if you want to continue to compare, AK didn't end her post with "Why am I not a town read?", which I'd say is more scummy than the entire deflection.

.................................................................

its the same thing. Both of your "strong town reads" AK and Khan said that they disagreed with you. I don't see how town gets two different things when they are the same question but then again you are scum soooo...

Are you reading this game at all?!? I accused Mollie of deflecting way back on day 1.

I hope you're not talking about what I think you are, because if so, that is just weak.

That you are ignoring yet another deflect?

[Nero Cain]

There is so much wrong with this post.

Vote Nero Cain

What happened to not voting until CTD was done?

Okay, here's the plan. I'm assuming that town has a protective role of some sort. What I'm asking is that CTD be protected during the night phase, since he is essentially def. town, and we'll need him in the upcoming days.

Who was it the called directing night actions scummy?

With that, the ball is in your court ThAd. If you really are the vig., you should know that this upcoming night phase is likely to be the only one to prove yourself. You can shoot at whoever you think is scum or is harmful to the town (although it might not hurt to ask for suggestions from the town itself, being that you outed yourself and all), however, should you aim at CTD, you will be wasting your shot. Anybody else is okay (even me), as there is enough contention with the rest of the player list as to gain useful information from a flip.

This a big ball of mindless shadowing.

#1 The whole Thad needs to shoot to prove himself thing has already been brought up AND its been brought up why this is not a good idea.
#2 CTD thinks I'm scummy as fuck for wanting to leash THAD and not doing anything. Yet you want to leash Thad and the vig list is "everyone sans CTD". Which is doing about just as much as me. This looks like a pile of bullshit 'cause it ignores all of YOUR town reads. AK and Khan are no longer strong town reads? Why on earth would town be ok with his town reads getting killed? And its just incredibly lazy.

This is scum and you guys need to kill it.

[Nero Cain]

So....Nero is scum for wanting to leash Thad and now both you and Bulb want to sheep my leash plan?!?

[Nero Cain]

I've melted down? The fuck?

[Nero Cain]

I've melted down? The fuck?

.........................................................................................

WORST TOWN EVER!!!!

I'm being voted for a bunch of fucking nothingness. Jesus Christ.

Nero Cain - 5 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie,

Desperado, Bacde, Ffullisade

)

at least one of these are scum.

When I flip town you guys should lynch the shit out the middle of my wagon.

Shut up Despo. But I really do think there is a scummer in that quick burst on my wagon. You can add in Cephir as well and maybe AK is onto Khan. You really think all those sheeps on my wagon are town? Get the puck outta here.

[Nero Cain]

I still wouldn't call that a meltdown but you and Nacho are entitled to ya'lls own derpy opinions.

[Nero Cain]

Bulbazak - 1 (Nero Cain)
Bulbazak - 1 (Human Destroyer)

HD, you need to switch your vote to the Bulbazak that I'm voting. That other Bulb is town as fuck.

<<< Fixed. >>>

[Nero Cain]

I also need Mara and Despo to talk to me about PA's play in WWE. Is this different?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

but the slot claimed to has power. Half this player base won't lynch that and there's like no momentum.

Why are you not voting Bulb but calling him scum?

[Nero Cain]

not particularly. His whole lurky/not going to defend myself could be scum laying back and using that to defend himself.

There are already 2 votes and Bulb and both you and Slandaar are calling him scum. I feel like Mara might be ok with a bulb lynch. I think PA has said that I made some good points. That's 6 right there and if we can convince one more person then we can lynch him.

[Nero Cain]

Nero you're town aren't you?

of course I am you greedy sailor.

[Nero Cain]

no, Cephir is probs red scum huting the blue team.

[Nero Cain]

Ok CTD is your strongest townread. So he tells you to unvote Sean. And Sean has what to do with me? Nothing. ok.

CTD didn't ask anyone to unvote Sean. He just said he'd like to have the time to post some final thoughts. Seeing as how Sean was at L-3, I unvoted to give CTD that time.

Also, I never said that Sean had anything to do with you. You've been trying to misrep my posts in an effort to paint me as scummy. Then when it doesn't work, you respond with "But what does that have to do with me?", which is a further attempt to twist the conversation in your favor in order to save your scummy hide and mislynch your attacker.

ok so CTD comes in and is all like "w8 guiz, I has moar 2 post about" You unvote 'cause he was apparently at L-1 with intent to hammer (yes I'm being sarcastic here.) But I highly doubt that Sean would have been hammered. So I don't see the reason for your unvote.

And then a derp wagon pops up on me. My wagon

peaked

at 6 and you posted SEVERAL times before I even reached 6 so no, I don't buy your explanation that you didn't vote me 'cause you wanted CTD to finish posting 'cause I was never in any real danger of being lynched.

And then getting called out on buddying CTD, you wuss out and go back on your word and vote me before CTD finishes posting?

As per the bolded, at one point you did state that Sean and I were "about the same level of scumminess" then I just magically jumped in scumminess which I asked you why which you failed to address.

I don't remember saying that. If I did, it was likely on a previous day. I've had you at the top my scum list since sometime in d2.

Do you normally forget things that you've said quite recently?

Why would I, then, immediately turn around and vote you,

who was reaching the same levels as Seanald

, after I had unvoted in the first place in order to give CTD more time? That's why I asked CTD if he had finished making his final posts, especially since I saw him not only voting you, but moaning about your wagon slowing down. As soon as I find out he's finished with what he needed to do, I will be voting for you, as my

scumread on your slot is stronger.

Are you reading this game at all?!? I accused Mollie of deflecting way back on day 1.

I hope you're not talking about what I think you are, because if so, that is just weak.

That you are ignoring yet another deflect?

If you are talking about the back and forth with B&B, I didn't see a deflect there. Besides, I found that whole argument as both stupid and a distraction, and I don't want you to derail the conversation yet again in an effort to avoid talking about you in favor of someone else.

Oh I'm plenty happy to talk about myself. What would you like to know? I was born in Houston, Texas. I'm 29 years old. I'm a cancer survivor. I love football and my two favorite teams are the Titans and The Cowboys. I live in Memphis, TN but for a brief period of time I lived in Charlotte, NC. And I'm totes town the game.

My favorite hobby is to point out the holes is Bulbs swiss cheese of a case.

Tell me why do I read as independent as opposed to scum? Can't hunt your own team?

nero are you bored

cos that was pretty dumb even for you

This is probably the only true deflection in the game. I find it kinda funny that a guy that thinks deflections are soooo scummy that you are totally ignoring this one while calling AK's pro-town and mine scummy...despite being the only one to answer his question.

With that, the ball is in your court ThAd. If you really are the vig., you should know that this upcoming night phase is likely to be the only one to prove yourself. You can shoot at whoever you think is scum or is harmful to the town (although it might not hurt to ask for suggestions from the town itself, being that you outed yourself and all), however, should you aim at CTD, you will be wasting your shot. Anybody else is okay (even me), as there is enough contention with the rest of the player list as to gain useful information from a flip.

This a big ball of mindless shadowing.

#1 The whole Thad needs to shoot to prove himself thing has already been brought up AND its been brought up why this is not a good idea.
#2 CTD thinks I'm scummy as fuck for wanting to leash THAD and not doing anything. Yet you want to leash Thad and the vig list is "everyone sans CTD". Which is doing about just as much as me. This looks like a pile of bullshit 'cause it ignores all of YOUR town reads. AK and Khan are no longer strong town reads? Why on earth would town be ok with his town reads getting killed? And its just incredibly lazy.

1.) Who said it was not a good idea? The whole reason he avoided being lynched was due to his vig. claim, and it has been stated multiple times that his survival tomorrow is dependent on what happens tonight.

2.) CTD thinks you're scummy, because while you say that the vig. needs to be controlled by the town, you do nothing to ensure that it happens. Then, when I see a problem with the vig. wanting to kill def. town, and I come up with a way to stop it, suddenly I'm scummy for doing what you refused to do? To be fair, I'd like to put more restrictions on the vig., and give him a list of who and who not to lynch. However, that'd be crossing a line, as it is the job of the town as a whole to do such a thing if it deems necessary. I understand that every slot besides CTD's is under contention in some way atm. Even Khan and Nacho, who I consider to be 2 of my strongest townreads, are being read as scum by somebody. Therefore, I understand that any kill other than CTD will give town useful information on which to move forward. In Khan's case, it would allow AK to reevaluate her reads, which she desperately needs to do. And Nacho's flip would put the game in perspective for a good number of people. Now, if town wants to take my plan a step further and seek to guide the claimed vig., which given the circumstances it has every right to, then I will join in and help with that process. Otherwise, I have at least done my part to keep def. town alive.

1. ???? So...if he is actually a vig he should have not claimed vig? Whats your point? There's several reasons why tonight is not enough time but I do agree that Thad is an issue that needs to be worked out well before lylo and we are still a ways from lylo unless you have some information to share with us.
2. Thad already knows how I feel about him and beyond that there's NOTHING to do. If Thad tells my where he lives I can buy an actual leash and go and put it on him, would that make ya'll feel better? I've been giving my reads, and I still plan on giving a full reads list before deadline. I don't know why CTD is rushing me and yelling at me to out my list when there's still lots of time left on the clock.

[Nero Cain]

So why is your vote on Nacho?

[Nero Cain]

Nero, will you sheep me?

I will love you forever if you did

Maybe later but not today and you already love me forever so its not like I need to sheep

If Ceph flips scum, bulb may be his scum parter based on his above posts!!!

Who agrees??

remind me to come back to this

Bulb, what is yur read on Rena?

[Nero Cain]

Slandaar, why would we assume 8 scum?

[Nero Cain]

When is the deadline again?

<<< Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 2:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 14:30:00), and that is approximately 50 hours from your post. >>>

[Nero Cain]

I knew when...nevermind.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Amethyst Kitty
Slandaar
Bacde
Nachomamma8
Rena
ffullisade

I would like to see these players move to one of the three leading wagons.

Spoiler: <<< Been a while since we required a mod-edited-votecount >>>

Bulbazak - 5 (Nero Cain, Human Destroyer, Seanald, ThAdmiral, ArcAngel9)

Seanald - 4 (PeregrineV, Desperado, penguin_alien, Cephrir)

Nero Cain - 3 (CrashTextDummie, Kublai Khan, Bulbazak)
Kublai Khan - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)
Rena - 1 (Slandaar)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Bacde)
PeregrineV - 1 (Nachomamma8)

Not Voting - 2 (Rena, ffullisade)

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 2:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 14:30:00).

If deadline were to hit now,

Bubazak

would be lynched.

Bulbazak and Rena are V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
The Malakittens half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until July 15th.
PeregrineV is V/LA until July 11th.
Human Destroyer is V/LA until Sunday, July 11th.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.

[Nero Cain]

Why is Bulb town?

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

*sigh* shoulda lynched that when I had the chance.

[Nero Cain]

That's exactly why I wanted you guys to vote 'cause there's scum motivation to not join a lynch in this setup.

What makes Bulb town? You think he's playing like nightless? I just don't trust him, this "Nero deflected but no one else did." is just so so very derpy and its hard to see town motivation.

[Nero Cain]

How familiar are you with his scum-play?

How familiar are YOU with my scum play?

Last I knew he was questioning the truthfulness of the vig-claim, and on the whole, I struggle seeing this as a way a pro-town player would address the issue.

This is a pretty good point.

If you can't leash him, why do want to leash him?


The thing that's puzzling me about the level of failure in "leashing" ThAd is that no one is taking what I would consider to be the most obvious approach: "Kill X, or we lynch you". It's the only thing even approaching "an additional lynch for the town".

I’ve gotten to the point of my mafia “career” where the game is mainly POE Lynching scum early is nice and jazz but it seems like there’s so many bad townies that say such silly scummy things that it behooves the town to get rid of them.


Also, have you ever heard of “scum take who they want to lylo” Well town has the exact same reason to take who they want to lylo. His kill (assuming that he is a vig) would help eliminate a suspect.


And no, we don’t tell Thad to shoot a specific person ‘cause it’ll give scum a great deal of information. What we do is give him a pool to shoot from and even if its an sk or one of the mafia teams pretending to be a vig then he’s still doing towns work. We can lynch him for shooting outside of the pool and that’s all town can do, so with what other means are you able to leash him with?


Why are you ignoring me about your neighborhood situation?

Why is my “lie” scummy but Nacho’s multiple lies are not scummy?

[Nero Cain]

probs, I was thinking the same thing. Thez also suggested "7-8 scum".

[Nero Cain]

khan defending Slandaar hard here...

[Nero Cain]

you are defending Slandaar 'cause you like the case against me? How does that make any sense what-so-ever?

[Nero Cain]

lol no.

[Nero Cain]

probs, I was thinking the same thing. Thez also suggested "7-8 scum".

Which is an excuse Nero doesn't have. Right scum?

right 'cause I never suggested a 8 man scum team.

[Nero Cain]

errr 2 4-man teams, 8 scum in all.

[Nero Cain]

PV you're trolling..
Nacho is not scum!!!

Why does Nacho lie then?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

What have I done or are you just sheeping?

[Nero Cain]

Slandaar is a good lynch, I still don't trust you as town though. I think your "Nero deflected but no one else did!!" is silly and scummy and that whole "Thad can vig anyone but CTD" seems incredibly lazy.

For me, I think Rena is coasting big time. She's not answering my questions and her posts have a prod dodgy feel to them.

[Nero Cain]

This is your vig pool Thad. I planned on giving lil' blurbs but I'm incredibly lazy all the sudden so this have to do for now.

2. Cephrir
3. Nachomam8
6. Bacde
7. Bulbazak
10. Slandaar
13. Rena
14. Kublai Khan
15. Amethyst Kitty
16. ffullisade

[Nero Cain]

how so? Sad you aren't on it? Maybe I shouldn't have included AK and FF but I keep waffling on those two.

Why is it bad and what is your alternative?

[Nero Cain]

No, I agree with Bulb here. I don't really buy Slandaar's excuse that "we should assume the maximum amount of scum" + Scumthez already speculated on there being "7-8 scum"

+ there's atleast one scum in the neighborhoods and Slandaar makes a good bet. CTD might be scum afterall. He's ignoring discussing his neighborhood big time.

vote:Slandaar

Khan
Slandaar

[Nero Cain]

2. Cephrir
3. Nachomam8
6. Bacde
7. Bulbazak
10. Slandaar
13. Rena
14. Kublai Khan

no, Despo, you and Thad can shove it 'cause that list is awesome.

Cephir is probs red scum hunting the blue.
KK is probs scum. His "I'm defending Slandaar from you" yet he was defending Slandaar before I attacked him is pants on head.
Nacho is just liar scum.
Slandaar probs slipped its an 7 or 8 man mafia.
Rena is coasting scum.
Bacde is playing different and he's now coasting on his town cred. + I don't like the way Nacho is treating him as town while calling me scum for doing the same/similar thing he did.
Bulb may know that Slan slipped 'cause he too is on a 4 man scum team. + His trying to argue that I "deflected" is by far the stupidest thing I've read on this site.

So yea, its a good list.

[Nero Cain]

So good I posted it twice.

<<< And I deleted one of them. Sorry. >>>

[Nero Cain]

HD is a total null for me. Mayybee he's scum lurking, idk.

Spoiler: <<< Good spot for a mod-edited-votecount >>>

Bulbazak - 6 (Human Destroyer, Seanald, ThAdmiral, ArcAngel9, Bacde, CrashTextDummie)

Slandaar - 5 (PeregrineV, Bulbazak, Rena, Amethst Kitty, Nero Cain)

Rena - 3 (Slandaar, ffullisade, Cephrir)
Nero Cain - 1 (Kublai Khan)
Seanald - 1 (penguin_alien)
PeregrineV - 1 (Nachomamma8)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Desperado)

All votes are in play.

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 2:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 14:30:00).

If deadline were to hit now,

Bubazak

would be lynched.

Rena is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
The Malakittens half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until July 15th.
PeregrineV is V/LA until July 11th.
Human Destroyer is V/LA until Sunday, July 11th.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.

[Nero Cain]

BTW, I take back my Thad scum argument. Neighbor is a normal modifier so Thad can really be a X-shot vig so we'll see if there are three kills in the next few nights.

[Nero Cain]

if Nero thinks thez slipped the number of scum, why is he playing as if he was assuming 3-men teams?

not what I said. Read better.

Why are you ignoring my questions about you and Slan's neighborhood?

I also do not care who dies between Bulb and Slan 'cause I want both gone before lylo.

[Nero Cain]

if thez already slipped that there are 7 to 8 scum, how is it scummy for Slandaar to go with this assumption as town

So why was it townie for Slan to assume 8 scum after scum already did?

he gets a built in defense of "scum would never do that"

[Nero Cain]

yeah, I just did the math. 6 is only 25%. 8 is 33.33333333333%. So 8 is more likely than 6. Slandaar is prob red scum with Cephir and two of Khan/Nacho/Rena/CTD/Bacde

So blue is probs Bulb with one of CTD/Bacde/khan.

[Nero Cain]

yeah, I just did the math. 6 is only 25%. 8 is 33.33333333333%. So 8 is more likely than 6. Slandaar is prob red scum with Cephir and two of Khan/Nacho/Rena/CTD/Bacde

So blue is probs Bulb with one of CTD/Bacde/khan.

How did you conclude that 1/3 is more likely than 1/4?

I might be wrong here...for some reason I had it in my head that scum were like 30ish% of a game. Do you think Slan and Thez earlier slipped the number of scum?

When I questioned it, he declared I was defending Slandaar.

So why did you not deny that you were defending Slan when I accused you of it? 'Cause you were and you knew it.

[Nero Cain]

I'm defending Slandaar?

[Nero Cain]

I also like the concept of a killer per neighborhood. I guess there could be 6 town neighbors in a 24 player game, but does anyone believe that?

no. I used to auto town read neighbors 'cause I was in so many games where the neighbors would read each other as scum that mods probs started doing town-town neighborhoods just to fuck with town.

What you are suggesting is that 3 of the 6 neighbors are scum which...just holy chain lynching batman. I deff think that all 6 neighbors aren't town. I also think its a good possibility that 1 hood could contain more than 1 scum.

[Nero Cain]

He was suggesting that 2 of the neghbors were scum (and that ThAd isn't)

We have 3 hoods, one killer per hood is 3? How is my math wrong?

Slan: Did CTD ever ask you about outing ya'lls QT? What did you say when he mentioned it?

Bulb: I'm discussing lylo 'cause there's a good possibility of it happening, I find you both scummy as fuck and I think its in the towns best intrest to have you two dead.

[Nero Cain]

WWE and 2 and a half friends had SK teams. Don't see how that's any different from two scum teams. And the point was that 33% scum doesn't appear anywhere, in any of those large games. Can you link me to some larges that have 33% scum?

??????????????? I said ish. Stop being so goddamn literal.

[Nero Cain]

And who do you think are scum in the neighborhoods?

[Nero Cain]

Slan: Did CTD ever ask you about outing ya'lls QT? What did you say when he mentioned it?

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Bulbazak

Why did we lynch Slandaar while I was gone

whywhywhy

'cause you weren't here to help us.

Though I do blame myself a bit.

Also pissed at AK for tunneling on KK.

vote:Bulb

[Nero Cain]

Are you really suggesting that I'm scummy for doing the same thing as you I,e; lynching Slandaar? Hypocrisy, thy name is Bulb.

Slandaar, why would we assume 8 scum?

Questions 8 scum in a 24 player game (i.e. the 33% scum scenario).

So tell me which team as flipped with 4 team members? What evidence suggests we have 8 scum in this game and why shouldn't I question this?

No, I agree with Bulb here. I don't really buy Slandaar's excuse that "we should assume the maximum amount of scum" + Scumthez already speculated on there being "7-8 scum"

Again questions Slandaar's 33% claim. He also throws in something Thez said (something I had forgot about to be honest) to increase suspicion on Slandaar.

When Thez suggested "7 or 8" scum, I thought he was just bullshitting. When he flipped scum I still thought it was bullshit and thus ignored it. When Slan brought it up I was confused as fuck as too why 2 different players (one of wich is confirmed scum) would bring up the possibility of more than 6 scum. (3/3 scum teams are common, we haven't had a third kill yet so I'm doubting an SK)

+ there's atleast one scum in the neighborhoods and Slandaar makes a good bet. CTD might be scum afterall. He's ignoring discussing his neighborhood big time.

He uses the neighborhood spec to implicate CTD as scum should Slandaar flip town. This is essentially setting up lynches.

So I was setting up lynches but not voting for CTD, the lynch I supposedly set up, How the fuck does that work?


I also specifically said “there’s atleast one scum in the ‘hoods.” There are 3 hoods its not like I ever said "if Slan flips town then it makes CTD scum" and I have no clue how you would get that. So again you seem to be buddying/defending CTD here. Just like you were doing yesterday.


The reason that most of us were town reading CTD is ‘cause of his outting his neighborhood, when the friendly neighbor flipped. He’s experienced enough to know how to fake this, there’s also the possibility that he could just be scum and not know this. I don’t like it when my questions are ignored and CTD is avoiding discussing his neighbor hood actions for some odd reason. And in yet another bout of hypocrisy, Bulb is now calling me scummy for being suspicious of CTD while he is also suspicious of CTD.

Note to self: Look at CTD’s recent games, if there’s a friendly neighbor in it them he’s scum faking.

yeah, I just did the math. 6 is only 25%. 8 is 33.33333333333%. So 8 is more likely than 6. Slandaar is prob red scum with Cephir and two of Khan/Nacho/Rena/CTD/Bacde

So blue is probs Bulb with one of CTD/Bacde/khan.

Here he completely reverses his opinion on the number of scum in the game, probably due to the fact that he was being questioned about it by CTD.

no.

25% seems kinda low and I was slightly onboard with 2 4-man scum teams. I also like Desp’s assessment of 7 scum.

yeah, I just did the math. 6 is only 25%. 8 is 33.33333333333%. So 8 is more likely than 6. Slandaar is prob red scum with Cephir and two of Khan/Nacho/Rena/CTD/Bacde
So blue is probs Bulb with one of CTD/Bacde/khan.

How did you conclude that 1/3 is more likely than 1/4?

I might be wrong here...for some reason I had it in my head that scum were like 30ish% of a game.

He continues to backpedal after you question him on it further, going "Well, I may be wrong...". Essentially, when questioned, he avoided taking a strong stance on the main reason he was lynching Slandaar! Which begs the question, if he really didn't feel strongly about his reasons for being on the wagon, why was he on the wagon in the first place?

So a vote and and calling him scum is not a strong stance? Please do not post anymore and accept your lynch.

<<< After some intensive moderator labor, I have managed to fix (I think) the horribly-broken quote tags Nero had. Seriously, I can deal with double-posts, I can deal with accidental quotes being broken, but do you know how close I was to being unable to fix this? Too damn close. Don't be lazy, Nero. >>>

[Nero Cain]

CTD, Bulb is buddying the fuck out of you. Why are you ignoring this?

[Nero Cain]

Are you really suggesting that I'm scummy for doing the same thing as you I,e; lynching Slandaar?

No, I'm saying you're scum for voting Slandaar for a specific reason, then backing off of that reason while still voting Slandaar.

Pray tell well you didn't mention this yesterday? Going for a second mislynch I see.

+ there's atleast one scum in the neighborhoods and Slandaar makes a good bet. CTD might be scum afterall. He's ignoring discussing his neighborhood big time.

He uses the neighborhood spec to implicate CTD as scum should Slandaar flip town. This is essentially setting up lynches.

I also specifically said “there’s atleast one scum in the ‘hoods.” There are 3 hoods its not like I ever said "if Slan flips town then it makes CTD scum" and I have no clue how you would get that.

CTD might be scum afterall.

So again you seem to be buddying/defending CTD here. Just like you were doing yesterday.

Yes, I pointed out that you were setting up options for a CTD lynch yesterday while on the Slandaar wagon. I must obviously be buddying.

Yes 'cause I never said

ANYTHING

about how CTD

HAS

to be scum if Slan flips town. For a guy that likes to whine about having words put into their mouth you sure like to do it with me. I specifically stated that out of the six neighbors, I don't think that all 6 are town. I also stated that I thought that Slan was a good choice. At no point did I ever say "there is scum in the Slan/CTD 'hood" So yea, I think you are just hardcore buddying CTD here, just like you were doing yesterday.

And in yet another bout of hypocrisy, Bulb is now calling me scummy for being suspicious of CTD while he is also suspicious of CTD.

Paranoia is natural after Slandaar's townflip, not before it. And my natural paranoia is still different than saying that he's probably scum if Slandaar flips town (since there's no way 2 scum would be paired together) while sitting on the Slandaar wagon.

How is there "no way 2 scum would be paired together"? Other than it being somewhat unlikely, its not an impossibility. But again, I never made any kind of statement that "there

HAS

to be scum in the Slan-CTD neighborhood. My suspicions with CTD had to do with him ignoring all of my questions and had nothing to do with Slan. This is also a scumslip. Bulb thought that I was suspicious of CTD ONLY 'cause of Slan and yet Bulb became suspicious of CTD after Slan flipped town. So why would town-Bulb be accusing me of being scum for something he's doing? ITT-Bulb is scum.

25% seems kinda low and I was slightly onboard with 2 4-man scum teams. I also like Desp’s assessment of 7 scum.

Funny, you never said anything about that before CTD and Desperado questioned you. In fact, you jumped on Slandaar's wagon for him suggesting it. Yet when questioned about it while on the wagon, you're suddenly okay with the idea and see it as natural, the same idea that you weren't even considering a moment ago and was actually voting someone for?

Town is very much a team game. Sure, I don't 100% know that CTD and Despo are on my team but it doesn't hurt to listen. As where you "care more about your own reads". That shits going to fuck town over, if you even are town.

And 4710 is calling you a liar.

So a vote and and calling him scum is not a strong stance?

You backpedaled on your main reason for voting Slandaar. Without that reason, your vote was essentially a meaningless opportunistic vote. In that context, no, your vote and you calling him scum was not a strong stance.

I don't think you know what anything means.

[Nero Cain]

ThAd, why did you opt to shoot Bulbazak?

Because I think he's scum. Plus he was the other major wagon yesterday and would have provided the most associated reads due to people for and against his wagon.

So why are you not voting him?

[Nero Cain]

How is there "no way 2 scum would be paired together"? Other than it being somewhat unlikely, its not an impossibility. But again, I never made any kind of statement that "there

HAS

to be scum in the Slan-CTD neighborhood”. My suspicions with CTD had to do with him ignoring all of my questions and had nothing to do with Slan. This is also a scumslip. Bulb thought that I was suspicious of CTD ONLY 'cause of Slan and yet Bulb became suspicious of CTD after Slan flipped town. So why would town-Bulb be accusing me of being scum for something he's doing? ITT-Bulb is scum.

Again, you're relying on the semantics of your actual statement in an effort to discredit an argument based on the

intent

of your statement, which is actually important. Then you try to twist cause and effect into some malformed meaning that only you can somewhat understand, because seriously, I don't get what you're saying. That I'm scummy because being paranoid about CTD after a townflip of his neighbor is the same as being suspicious of CTD and calling him scum

while

wagoning his neighbor? They're completely different. There's a part in the back of my mind that is telling me that if we find scum from one team in the neighborhoods, that we'll find scum from the other team in the neighborhoods as well. And while a scum/scum neighborhood might be an interesting idea, it is so improbable that it is highly unlikely. Yet, you are trying to defend your actions yesterday by saying that you thought CTD was scum

while

you were trying to lynch Slandaar as scum? The 2 reads do not compute enough to exist simultaneously. With how unlikely the scum/scum neighborhood is, that should not even be entering your mind, yet you are claiming it did (Because you were not saying that CTD was scum if Slandaar was town after all...). And when I point it out, you yell out, "You're also suspicious of CTD! Hypocrisy! Hypocrisy!". However, I only became paranoid of CTD after Slandaar flipped town, and that was because of my views on the neighborhoods (i.e.

if we find one scum in the neighborhoods, the other scum is likely there as well, and my PoE eliminates PV

). It is not the same as you saying that CTD might be scum

while

trying to lynch his neighbor. It's quite a stretch of logic, and a scummy one at that.

ok, I'm officially questioning your sanity, but if you're scum then your weirdness is understood . For the like 5365463455475663445575654343447 time, I never said that there was there scum SPECIFICALLY in the CTD/Slan neighborhood. I said that I felt there were scum in the hoods as in that I don't really buy that all 6 are town. I know that its outguessing the mod which is somewhat useless but its a workable hypothesis. I thought Slan was a good bet for scum, hence why I voted him. Its NOT a stretch to be suspicious of his neighbor at the same time.

If anything is a stretch its you trying to claim that I called “one of Slan/CTD scum” b/c I didn’t.


I don’t understand what Slan’s town flip has to do with CTD, you were hardcore town reading the guy and then you flip a switch and he’s scummy? To be honest this is starting to look like some sort of buddy play. I mean, I find CTD suspicious yes but I don’t see how Slan’s town flip incriminates him and ESPECIALLY someone you were hard town reading just a moment ago. So it looks like you calling him scummy out of the blue. I also get a fence sitty vibe.



My point was that, you are claimed town. YOU believed that I was saying that there was scum between Slan/CTD. I wasn’t but the the sake of the argument lets go with that. TODAY, you come out and are all like “yea, there’s scum between Slan/CTD.” So you are agreeing with what you thought I said yesterday. If you believe the same thing then why would you call that scummy unless you don’t have a pro-town pm.




The bolded needs to be explained. There’s no flipped scum from the neighborhood. So why would you be looking for the “other” scum? Also explain your POE and how it eliminates PV.

Where did the "care about your own reads" quote come from? You're now starting to make crap up to defend yourself.

So I'm making things up am I?

I tend to trust my reads over anyone else's

itt bulb gets caught in a lie.

[Nero Cain]

What is your read on AK, Bulb?

[Nero Cain]

Mollie stop getting distracted by Bulb and help me get AK lynched

The AK vote is good but why are you against a Bulb wagon? You claimed his play here resembled that of his scum play or have you changed your mind?

[Nero Cain]

Was less than pleased with QT last night. Bulba was not my first choice for a bullet.

But, we are now divining the setup to be 2 scumteams, each with a roleblocker, that each managed to block a PR without doubling up on either?

I think that's stretching it somewhat.

Vote: Nachomamma

ThAd, possible suggestion for next time you take a shot.

Don't discuss your target on the QT.

I have a bad feeling about Perigrine.

- f

Yeah I didn't just in case. Well I started talking about potential targets, then stopped.

anyway

vote: bulb

I don't really like this. Thad calls Bulb scum, I ask him why he's not voting and then he votes?

[Nero Cain]

What is your read on AK, Bulb?

Scratch that. Read your list. Why are you even doing lists this game when you didn't do them in voided mafia?

+ explain why Nacho is a strong town read for defending you but AK is a null read for defending me?

[Nero Cain]

this game is a lurk fest now....or it could just be that its a weekend.

<<< I've been sending out pokes as necessary, so everyone's within activity guidelines. There's not much I can do short of sending a mass-poke to tell people they need to post more frequently. >>>

[Nero Cain]

I don't really like this. Thad calls Bulb scum, I ask him why he's not voting and then he votes?

People often call me out on stuff like this - they say "I'm trying to appease". Do you seriously think I am trying to appease people in this game?

Maybe, who knows. Your vote is on scum so I don't really care all that much right now

Everyone that's not voting Bulb right now needs to vote him.

[Nero Cain]

Rena, what result did you get night 1?

[Nero Cain]

Despo, why are you seemingly ignoring this game?

[Nero Cain]

no. I just been seeing you online and posting elsewhere so I was just wondering what's up.

[Nero Cain]

You don't think he's buddying CTD?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

HD I'm coming to really appreciate you in my games man

I mean, I already did, but I can see that you are somewhat changing your playstyle and I love it

I can't handle all these walls

This is the most sus post you've made so far. Why did you feel the need to make this?

'cause he's whiteknighting you duh.

[Nero Cain]

So you're assuming all of the scum neighbors are in a neighborhood together? As I said yesterday, if scum from 1 team is in a neighborhoods, then scum from the other team is likely in the neighborhoods as well, and I find it highly unlikely that they're both together.

no? I was voting Slan 'cause I thought he was scum. I think CTD was doing some scummy shit and I was slightly paranoid of him. I think you are reeaally stretching here. When you put it like that "they were unlikely to both be scum" it makes some sense but it was never my intention and its stretching and looking awkward as hell to suggest that I knew Slan would flip town and that I said there HAD to be scum in this hood. Though it would be extremely easy for you as scum to go “well, the neighbor flipped town, so the other one must be scum!”

I never said that CTD was scum.

Your entire theory was that both teams had a scum in the hoods and that PV-Thad was a town/town hood, Slan was scum is the hood with Despo and that Slan was scum in his hood.

Slan flipped town. So in your theory

you are calling CTD scum

. Are you reevaluating the PV-Thad hood? Apparently not ‘cause you listed both Thad and PV as strong town reads. You even have CTD as a stronger town read then Despo Which makes no sense. So why does your day 4 list not add up to your actual thoughts?

However, after Slandaar's flip, I really don't want to go aimlessly poking around in the neighborhoods for the sole reason of proving my theory. I want to find scum for actual scummy reasons, not just theory. Therefore, if we go after one of the neighbors for legitimately scummy reasons, and they flip scum, only then will I evaluate given my theory, but until then, it's too dangerous to try on that reason alone, making it more in line with a policy lynch, which I'm not especially a fan of.

and this is just a bunch of backing down and pre-emptive reasoning to explain away his discrepancies in his list/thought process.

RE scum and lists: I'm not suggesting that only scum make them but they are relatively safe since they can easily be manufactured and scum seem to use them a lot. All they have to do is "follow the logic" e.g. go from the highest scum read to the next.

If you no longer believe in your own theory then why does Slan’s town flip make you suspicious of CTD?

If you were second guessing your own theory then why did you not come right out and say so?

oh look what I found!!!

I think if Slandaar gets lynched and flips town, CTD will more likely be scum.

This is what Bulb is pushing me for but he's ignoring this?

There's also that pusedo-vig Thad wanted to shoot Bulb and told PV in the qt (right?) and then was blocked

Thad, did PV ask you who you wanted to shoot?

[Nero Cain]

I think your fight with him is stupid

I disagree. I feel like if you were reading the walls then you'd understand why I find him scummy. I think the scum read on me is pretty forced. I think he's buddying CTD big time. And his thought process concerning the neighbors makes no fucking sense what so ever.

[Nero Cain]

I think your fight with him is stupid

I disagree. I feel like if you were reading the walls then you'd understand why I find him scummy. I think the scum read on me is pretty forced. I think he's buddying CTD big time. And his thought process concerning the neighbors makes no fucking sense what so ever.

I am reading them, and it's been forced since Deflectiongate.

I see the buddying, but I also see him continuing to do it even after you called him out on it. Seems like he just really, really thought he was town and now he's getting slightly paranoid (just like you). I feel like you guys are arguing the same thing from different angles.

So what, you think its a towntell that everyone one is telling him that's he's off his rocker but he's just putting his fingers in his ears and yelling "I'M NOT LISTNING!!!"

I also disagree with our suspicious of CTD being similar. He's only suspicious of CTD 'cause of his theory which,

not

surprisingly he's sort of backtracking from so he doesn't have to call CTD, PV, or Thad scum. My suspicion of CTD has to do with him avoiding my questions and talk of his hood. In that regard, and only that regard, they are

somewhat

similar (just 'cause the both deal with neighbor stuffs) but I think its kinda a stretch to call them similar.

[Nero Cain]

thoughts on Bulb, please dear.

[Nero Cain]

The reason that most of us were town reading CTD is ‘cause of his outting his neighborhood, when the friendly neighbor flipped. He’s experienced enough to know how to fake this, there’s also the possibility that he could just be scum and not know this. I don’t like it when my questions are ignored and CTD is avoiding discussing his neighbor hood actions for some odd reason. And in yet another bout of hypocrisy, Bulb is now calling me scummy for being suspicious of CTD while he is also suspicious of CTD.

Note to self: Look at CTD’s recent games, if there’s a friendly neighbor in it them he’s scum faking.

Note to the town: Nero has no intention of ever following up on this. If he thinks I'm good enough scum to fool almost the entire town with my play, it's completely nonsensical that he'd even entertain the idea that he could find a friendly neighbor in one of my past games.

????

Why is it nonsensical? I'm fairly certain that I'm able to read. Lets say I go through your games and find a FN. Why or why not should we auto lynch you?

Nero, I've ignored your incessant probing into our neighborhood because it was none of your business. If there was anything in our QT I thought the town needed to know, I would have mentioned.

I also don't remember you being anywhere near as interested in questioning any other neighbors about their QTs. I wonder why that is.

Maybe 'cause no one else was like "I'LL PROVIDE THE CONTENT OF MY QT!!!" So I'm confused as to why you said you'd do this, then didn't and why you wanted/needed Slan's permission.

If he truly believed in his theory yesterday, a certain amount of paranoia makes sense. Though it's just as likely (or maybe more so) that he was simply overreaching with his argument yesterday to save his own hide and now has to backpedal to maintain a semblance of reason.

Are you REALLY giving a reason that Bulb would backtrack? Context says you two are full of it. He's STILL town reading Thad and PV BECAUSE of his theory. AND he's still believes that Sean is scum and in his theory he thinks both teams have a undercover hoodling. So if he believes that and is unwilling revisit THAD or PV then you are the POE scum. I think its likely he has a buddy in you or PV. I'm also not arguing about him setting up a lynch on you. I'm saying that in his theory he has you listed as scum and now he's backing away from calling you scum for some reason.

If you decide to finally stop giving Nero a pass, I'd much prefer lynching him still.

If you feel this way why do you feel the need to move? Deadline is still aways away.

[Nero Cain]

pls vote Bulb scum with me.

[Nero Cain]

Rena
bulb
ctd
Cephir
nacho
bacde
^
the last 4 scum be in there

[Nero Cain]

yea, she's clearly not reading.

[Nero Cain]

it was OM.

but we should be lynching Bulbscum today.

[Nero Cain]

hehehe. 3 days and no prod. This mod team blows.

<<< This would be my bad, due to not being online all of Sunday and most of Saturday. Busy working on a personal project of mine I want to finish before my birthday tomorrow. >>>

[Nero Cain]

lets not lynch until I can reply to all the shit from Bulb, Despo, CTD and Rena.

[Nero Cain]

Everyone claiming that I'm scum is a fucking retard but then again some of those are very likely to be scum so yeah.

[Nero Cain]

Nacho, what made you change your mind on Rena?

[Nero Cain]

Where the hell is bacde?

In his quicktopicks, lurking it out.

[Nero Cain]

Why would I unvote when I'm down for a bulb lynch? Its not like I care if he gets lynched before I get to the other posting I need/want to do.

Don't think I've been lurking a week and its not like I'm the only "lurker" in this game. Infact, I think I've been quite active lately. I admit that I've been rather lazy these past few days but lurking. lol

Can you quote the post where I claimed VT?

[Nero Cain]

Why make that post if you don't care?

nothing will change.

I mean, I'm behind but I don't care enough if Bulb I lynched before I finish.

Why not Ffery?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nero Cain]

Because it's weird that you apparently think whatever business you can't wrap up today can wait until day 5.

Its just replying to some of the silly accusations against me. I don't think it'll change anything in the long run.

And on the one hand you say you are not the only lurker in the game and on the other assert you've been quite active.

I'm the second most active poster and I think I have a good amount of content. Though CTD is quite right that I've been lazy and "lurking". Its a shit statement 'cause there are far worse lurkers than me but he's scum so its not like his accusations have to make any sense.

Double post deleted -AP

[Nero Cain]

So there's nothing this game day that has changed your mind, or could change your mind about any player?

nope, not really though it is kinda interesting how Nacho was attacking me for attacking Rena and now he has a scum read on said slot. What has changed today for you?

You are the only one gloating that you've managed to exceed the activity limit without getting prodded.

Switzerland hasn't invented humor?

Bacde has the most posts out of anyone and you're accusing him of lurking.

If you don't think there's been a massive drop in activity from that slot then you are stupid.

[Nero Cain]

you think Bulb is town?

[Nero Cain]

nacho, you wanna answer my question?

[Nero Cain]

you think Bulb is town?

Because your ISO is longer than some games I played in, a little direction to the meat of your reason would help.

?!?!

This is pretty much the norm for me as town and you've played with me a fair amount so what's up with that?

off the top of my head

*his accusation that I am scum 'cause of my "deflect" is both selective and forced

*I do not like his hardcore buddying of the CTD

*I find it suspicious that he didn't vote for themon

*his backtracking on his each team has a scum neighbor

[Nero Cain]

well there's cephir but that's scum.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>