NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Nachomamma8]

Since it has been so prevalent, I am not sure whether this is genuine scum leading town or town thinking everyone should know I'm town. What say you?

I think the "everyone who reads me should be town" part is a towntell, but the sheeping thing is just Majiffy regardless of alignment. I think the "everyone who reads me should be town" is a towntell because it's wrecking his image if he's scum; doesn't make sense for him to make people rethink townreads when he's already being townread left and right.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho you may be wrong on your Fuzzy read.

Haylen's still town; please stop agonizing her so I can work with her.

It is why I made the gambit.
It is why I asked to not be vigged.
It is why I don't have interest in this game.

I hate claims that explain previous behavior, and your rant of why bulletproof is such a terrible horrible thing is not so good. Bulletproof is probably my favorite role as town because you're literally unkillable town and there is no reason for you to hold back ever.

Here he uses the term if instead of when.

WOAHHH THAT'S CRAZY MAN
Too bad it has literally nothing to do with my alignment!

I believe Oversoul's claim. It resonates too well with his awkwardness around his fake-claim gambit ("Why would anyone shoot me?", "I don't need protection because I am useless and if scum just want a kill in general at a later time they know my death won't be interfered with.") and I agree with Bacde that the claim post sounds town. SK is of course a possibility, but I'm not willing to pursue that possibility on D1 without having any indication that an SK is in the game to begin with.

Oversoul - 10 (Desperado, penguin_alien, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, Haylen, PeregrineV)

Nacho, Cephrir, thezmon, PV. Anyone wanna take a bet on how many of them are opportunistic scum?

Sorry, can't take two bets at once.
My current bet is seeing how much farther you can fall from grace while you ignore the shit out of me.

Since Nero and Haylen are only grand wishes...

VOTE: Nacho

Lynching a townread and not even trying to find an alternative? OK.

Can we lynch Nacho now?

You can't give reasons either?
OK.

Mollie, please lynch OS with me.

[Nachomamma8]

Saw that, don't care.
Having a claim to explain previous behavior is scummy. Showing up to defend yourself but not doing shit else the whole game is scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

re: Nacho, I think he is town but I can't read him so take that with a grain of salt.

Wheeeeeeee

[Nachomamma8]

for scum I am liking os, thor, nero, omtd, red ryu, maybe fuzzy slot, and probably a lurker

os, nero, red ryu, lurkers

[Nachomamma8]

eta: still think omtd should be in there too

thor is always taken with a grain of salt and omtd is a little stale

[Nachomamma8]

retracting my claws from you for now mara cos it is interesting what is going on between between the boys

Mara's looking townier lately.

[Nachomamma8]

One day someone will explain to me what I do when I look town, and I will be amazed.

I like your push on B&B even though you're wrong, especially because you know Majiffy is in that hydra and you know you can get him on your side as scum to push where you want him to, but instead you're clashing with mollie like you always do. I like the way you handled the wagon on me; you picked up on the reasoning that actually was good reasoning, did research of your own, decided to dismiss it and go through the chore of arguing with Sland's stubborn ass. You didn't have to do that, and you could've easily took advantage of my vulnerability and cut me apart and you'd know I'd be hesitant in calling you scum after shit play in Mafiableh. I liked the progression of your townread on me; the hop onto Desp wagon was a little bit lazy, but follows with this being a slow game and you playing perpetual catchup. I like your perpetual catchup because it's honestly not a good position for you to take as scum; you'd want a larger hand in directing the lynches, especially if you were gonna white knight me. You haven't done the things necessary to take control of the town when you damn well could have by now. Your defense of Oversoul is also genuine although I think you're missing some easy things on that read (fucking seriously, "I'm playing bad because I am (role)"????), but it feels genuine. I also liked your note to yourself. That doesn't strike me as something you'd do as scum either.

[Nachomamma8]

You are in an ongoing with me where you saw Nacho play.
I really wish I could ask you about it.
But I am fascinated at this level of awe for him considering you saw the same play I did.
It's annoying I can't press you on it either - because you are the one who feels fake here.

This post also felt pretty genuine, and he reminds me of something I wanted to bring up: I think that Bacde lost respect for me that game, figured out that no one was untouchable, so actually tried to read me this game as opposed to his normal play, picked up on me being more passive than usual, pushing me in the exact same way that I tried to push you in No Lynching Town with myko. I'm too lazy to go through your posts to see your read on him, but that's mostly why he's obvtown.

Meh, if you are playing perfectly fine and were town, this wagon wouldn't be on you.

I also liked this a lot, keeping your townread on me in mind. Felt like a "step it the fuck up" post which doesn't seem to have much scum motivation behind it.

But, taking this trip through your ISO reminded me that I'm unclear on a majority of your stances on players. Can I get your T-->S list?

[Nachomamma8]

Why aren't you voting OS?

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

18. ThAdmiral - town

Hmmm?

[Nachomamma8]

nacho is scum

Explain yourself

[Nachomamma8]

I've never gotten close with Thor. I want to.

[Nachomamma8]

thor is the best reason to have a town silencer in a game if he is scum


*also in the post before this one it should have ended with "yet you still call him town".

When someone is wily, it just makes me want to read them more.
I'm not going to let Thor be a blind spot for me because he's hard to read.

[Nachomamma8]

he has been wily the whole game why are you just now wanting to look at him

I've been watching him, but I only thought to get cozy after mafiableh ended.
I never tried to get cozy with him before because he has a very scary beard.

[Nachomamma8]

I have no idea what his beard looks like but I am pretty sure you are scum

I bet bulb is too

I haven't seen a fake drunkposting gambit in a while.

[Nachomamma8]

ORIGIN

[Nachomamma8]

Why, do you find him scummy or something?

Not necessarily, I just don't see why you would find him town.

You are scum - your reads lack any actual sense to them and you are frightened at the thought of explaining them.

Frightened mollie is not wallposting mollie. Have you ever read one of her scumgames on here (especially against me)? Also, why was the Majiffy head scum? I figured you'd work more with him.

Nacho is obvredscum who shot red ryu for being a huge supporter of the nacho wagon, but also as an attempt to discredit the wagon by leaving the largest and towniest supporters alive

I bet he was hoping red ryu would flip scum to discredit the wagon

I would get him lynched during the day if I thought he was scum.

Bcade you need to turn your Nacho obsession into something else. Stop expressing your crush on him here..

<3

So I check the wiki and I've never heard of this role before. I feel like a colossal idiot now.

CTD, my townread on you was very, very stale.

Have you read listened to Audio Mafia?
Could you tell me if what I caught her for there is consistent with her town meta?
Because she's doing the *same thing* in his game.

Yes, it is consistent.

@KK - last I checked I was the first player to call out AK for being scummy, I'd be thrilled to peaches with that wagon.

Vote: Amethyst Kitty

Let's be peaches together.

Pedit: Haylen <3

Now explain them because that's all I care about.
How the hell did I move up to your top townread?

1. You're a hydra with her, like Majiffy before you. You *are* accountable for what she says and does just as she is. I am not playing with two slots, I am playing with two players in one slot. If one of you drops a scumtell and one of you drops a towntell then I don't have two different reads, I have one combined read. I vastly don't understand either your or Majiffy's desperate desire to distance from your ruddy other hydra head.

Well, this explains that.

and this is why I think you are scum thor. your posts point to scum motivation. town thor makes good sense and you are simply not adding up in this game.

and tbh I am embarrassed for any town who is actually reading you as town right now.

He looks like ffery scum right now but I'm not actually sure that's his scumgame if that makes any sense at all. He feels more like melodramatic emo town Thor.

Are you kidding me?
Remember Audio Mafia.
REMEMBER AUDIO MAFIA - I TRAINED YOU WITH A DIESEL ENGINE OF PURE TRAIN POWER STRAIGHT THROUGH THE HEART.
You are, functionally, committing the scumtell you're attributing to me now. Fake awareness of meta.
Except I actually have a reason not to take 'lack of logic' as a town tell from you.
And I also have a reason to take 'dodging and trying to avoid around things' as a scumtell from you.
What have you got?
Scum.

I also live inside mollie's head.
So if you have a townread on me and a scumread on mollie and I'm calling mollie town, that's not a good thing.
You find me one game on here where I incorrectly went on a crusade of calling mollie town and you'll find a wrong read. I've called her scum the first time we played together until she was too town for me to kill. Then, I missed her as scum once because I was letting Majiffy read her because he played my heart like a violin. I haven't made a mistake after that, and I won't make a mistake again until her scumgame tragically improves. I can also read ffery in the same manner. Literally have never read her wrong ever, although mollie's a part of that as well. I'll kill them all if she's scum, but she's not. If you have a game that you read mollie to death in that ISN'T audio mafia, hook me up because I have something like 20.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Thezmon

but I'm explicitly not supporting your "I'm 100% on this but I can't say why because it's against the rules," Bacde. I just saw town say that about town in Micro 168 so just stop. You don't need to cheat to get Thez lynched, he's done more than enough in the context of this game to merit it.

I can also go here, but I prefer AK.

[Nachomamma8]

6. This is also true. Except you should add 'with Mollie, as usual, twisting reality - and then claiming someone else is twisting reality.' Like we've been doing.

Why do scum lie? Because they can get away with it?

Seriously how is nacho capable of missing my case on thezmon?

Because you can be very mean to me sometimes and my feelings are very hurt.

It's gut at the moment, he feels like he's legit working, not fake working.

How? What posts look the happiest to you?

She lies about things she's done to avoid explaining them and fakes emotional breakdowns as town?
Links to any examples?

That's not at all what I work with because I form my reads differently. Mollie-scum v Nacho town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25914
Mollie-sympathetic to scum third party v Nacho town:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27515

Mollie town w/Nacho scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4879542

Mollie disinterested town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4691507

Intensely paranoid Mollie:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4705343

And whereas I can't peg the head of Majiffy, I sure as hell can see and read scum fferyllt. Sometimes oh yeah she does refuse to explain emotional breakdowns, see Posh Mafia (the last one) when she gets insanely paranoid of me. She was like "yeah, never gonna get you lynched, we're done ".
But really, I want you to look at the difference between her scumgame and her towngame. And if you don't see it, I'm actually just going to lynch you because jesus fucking christ. Lying, refusing to explain emotional breakdowns, that's different in an audio game. My face to face game is not at all like these beautiful written words; my metas are not reflections.
So sell me that what you know of her is better than what I know of her. What happened in Mainstream Mafia? Did Mollie lie a lot? Was she aggressive as fuck? Did she take a hard lead as a cult leader? Or did Majiffy shut her up and control the game himself. You failed to accept Majiffy's reachouts, why?

don't really have a legit town read on you.
I have a 'I don't think his bad play is proof he's scum' read on you.
But I'm willing to see the links you'll show me.

Welp if I'm good enough to be left alive for another day you'll work with me so we can avoid our retard fights in the future.

Yeah I can see that. What is the your #1 reason for AKscum?

the she feels more passive than usual even though we should've touched bases, we should've been getting scum together by now
her reads are janky as fuck; her reads on me and oversoul were fairly strange and she backed off, jumped on at a WEIRD time

All of them? cuz that's alot of explaining

Explain the 5 you were proudest of getting.

How many times have I said this now?

Probably something like 20 times and I didn't really like any of them.

I also want to chime in about the Mollie slot. Mollie gets constantly read as scum and Jiffy knows it. In this game (link below) Ma Jiffy put a leash on Mollie to avoid suspicion. Bacde already brought up the fact that they could be switching their meta around to fool us.

that's not how meta works nero

I didn't realize that you were talking about my case on nacho, which is understandable that you don't want to follow it

Vote: thezmon

[Nachomamma8]

^actual scum

Bacde and I have a very complicated relationship.

[Nachomamma8]

i'm pretending we have a complicated relationship when we both know the truth
i'm in love with you and you don't love me back no more
you gave me a locket and you took it away
and you left me locked out of heaven with mollie

[Nachomamma8]

lol AA9 I seriously doubt nacho feels any of those feels for me

i'm imagining him singing this song to me right now
thank you AA9
maybe one day...

[Nachomamma8]

I want to know why the "vig" is making a deal to lynch me tomorrow when he's so sure I'm scum. As a vig, if he is as sure as he claims to be, ghe could just off me tonight.

I don't think he is.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, Bacde where is the town core?

- f

it's slowly coming together
he won't be able to resist me forever, and i'm working on what the hell thor is doing, and he's treating me sort of weird so far.
CTD is inactive, Desp is in...

[Nachomamma8]

i couldn't get into the game day 1, got fucking railed for it
got into it a little bit, picking up a few bits of something, here i am

[Nachomamma8]

Besides, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to be a 2-shot BP instead?

It would make the most sense if you were a friendly neighbor or a 2-shot BP.
The fact you aren't raises eyebrows. What will it take for you to gain a power?

[Nachomamma8]

CTD should be totally in it. Who else?

om the hydra, but that was mostly for day 1
cephrir
bulba
haylen
KK
AA x10

[Nachomamma8]

You said at some point that, you expected me to engage you directly if I thought I was scum and I did. alot of my early posts had to do with my read on you, and me trying to get you to tell me your reads on certain people, and it took a while for me to get an answer, and me trying to get you to talk to me. I started to shy away from that though as my scum-read on you started to decrease

And the entire time you did it, it looked horrible.

and how do you go from this to wanting me dead with nothing about us in between?

You look townier, but it wasn't enough for you to be town.

I'm a really easy and uncontroversial scumread to have. Need someone to pad your scumlist? Why not Cephrir?

don't do this to me man
you're town as shit

[Nachomamma8]

At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.

If thezmon was town he would be a Friendly Neighbor. Die scum die.

mastin never told me I was a Friendly Neighbor after Syry's death.

Besides, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to be a 2-shot BP instead?

Let's do this one more time.
Thez claimed to be universal backup who hasn't received a role despite TWO town power roles being dead thus far.

Pretty sure that Universal Backups can't become Mason Recruiters either, and Friendly Neighbor is basically a weaker version of it. Only difference is the talk out of chat and guarantee that the target is pro-town.

This is his response. "Pretty sure they can't be mason recruiters either and friendly neighbor is basically a weaker version"
FUCK NO

[Nachomamma8]

At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.

If thezmon was town he would be a Friendly Neighbor. Die scum die.

mastin never told me I was a Friendly Neighbor after Syry's death.

Besides, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to be a 2-shot BP instead?

Let's do this one more time.
Thez claimed to be universal backup who hasn't received a role despite TWO town power roles being dead thus far.

Pretty sure that Universal Backups can't become Mason Recruiters either, and Friendly Neighbor is basically a weaker version of it. Only difference is the talk out of chat and guarantee that the target is pro-town.

This is his response. "Pretty sure they can't be mason recruiters either and friendly neighbor is basically a weaker version"
FUCK NO

Mollie and I are both a little conflicted about Nacho. One of my goals today is to figure him out, and the way I manage that is by direct interaction.

My other goal is to help establish a town core, whether we are part of it or not. And figuring out Nacho and the Nacho/Bacde thing is key to that IMO.

Nacho refuses to interact with me directly this game (except when he demands I sheep his reads even though he admits his reads are bad)

its one of the reasons that I'm over 9000% sure that he's scum

I refuse to be a part of any town core that has nacho in it

Spoiler: interactions between Nacho and Bacde that don't exist

"confirmed scum"...why?

Because you're not confirmed scum. That was rhetoric.

Majiffy can answer for himself, Nacho.
That still doesn't explain his failure to push his apparently preferred Ceph wagon in any sort of productive way so yeah.

~

His playstyle does though!

VOTE: nachomamma8

classic.

hey there
don't vote B&B please

are we just lynching OS because its OS or is there a better reason?

There's a better reason.

I'm actually down to lynch nacho

this feels like scum-nacho to me

(how was that as a contribution?)

You got me all excited when you said you were gonna provide reasoning later...

town-nacho would not have tunneled this idiotic OS case for this long

but its the perfect case for him to push as scum

It's also a good case to push as town, considering he was lying and it's a shitty gambit as town.

Eddie and Slandaar and Oversoul seriously wtf?

I'm trying to move this game in a direction and you three are being deliberately anti-town by not even responding to my strong assertion I made just 4 posts ago

guys bc is right. this is scum nacho we are seeing

VOTE: nacho

Really.
[/quote]

I can keep going, but it isn't worth it. Ever since you got your scumread started, you've been continually hammering on me. NACHO IS SCUM NACHO IS SCUM NACHO IS SCUM. When you flopped and called me town, we didn't work too much together after that, why? Because you're paranoid as fuck and you're not going to let a strong read like that go. You will not read me as town this game no matter what I do, no matter what I say, no matter how much ass I haul in this game. You might read me as town when I'm dead and gone, but that isn't happening, so I'll work on that instead of working on you. Do you want to know why? It's easier for me to make myself that I'm a threat to scum than it is to rip myself away from your paranoia because I have no idea how it works, how it ticks. I have been ignoring your posts on me because you've gone onto the dark side of the abyss and you're not coming back. I haven't ignored your posts elsewhere.

[Nachomamma8]

p-edit: @Nacho

How are you a threat to scum?

because i have found and lynched many in my day
did you notice that thez fucked up his claim?

[Nachomamma8]

also why in the world do you like haylen and arc for town

meta
you can take those reads to the bank and back
haylen's less so, but Arc is completely and totally town

[Nachomamma8]

good.
how are you?

[Nachomamma8]

I am not liking the quick OS wagon. Its bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as town, she white knights people who are having fast wagons on them, slows the game down because she knows what it's like to get attacked shittily

Huh!!!
Can you all stop posting the fluff for heaven sake.. It’s not even 24 hours since I was here and it is 20 pages already.. Go slow people… Catching up is always a night mare!!!

Anywayz, Overall.. OS wagon is the most dumbest shit than ever. Every lurker who has no content/case to make is jumping in OS wagon, OS may not be the scum, If there is something odd about him that it is his claim. I will have to ISO some of his games to understand better but for now, I have no interest in joining his wagon.

Looks like Beast (majiffy) abandoned the Beauty (mollie) in the hydra. Mollie’s arguments make sense, she is town. Om the Destroyer is also town. And the never ending triangle arguments between OM, B&B & ephir looks very town vs town or there could a scum in between them but its early to see because it seems all of them has their own cases argue...

when she gets left behind, she yells at people for posting too much

Both of you get a room!!!

teases people she likes

I am sorry about the inactivity, It’s just too many posts to catch up.. this is what happens when you fall behind in a large games. And having players like Jiffy, Nero, OS,& Bcade I couldn’t imagine any less than a massive amount post floods… Anywayz.. the catch up was really frustrating and such a butt hurt…..

this post is a REAL reads catchup post. AA can't do that as scum. not yet.

I am more likely not interested in lynching Nacho. At least not today please.. SO STOP THE NACHO WAGON. ITS BAD!!!

"he should be lynched when it's time to lynch him"
subtly paranoid, still doesn't want me gone before she knows wtf is going on

Then why are you voting Nacho, its not too late to build another wagon. Nacho case just doesn't make sense. I am not sure why nacho is not actually defending himself as much as I thought he would but this sounds little easy, like i said earlier, it would be a miracle if scum really had let town feed a scum on day 1 especially a player like Nacho.

she's picking up on me not defending myself as fiercely as I normally do
you think scumAA would pick up on this?
do you think scumAA EVEN as my buddy would pick up on this if I wasn't coaching her?

STILL NOT INTERESTED ON NACHO WAGON!!!!!!!!!!!

arc being loud and yelling to stop what she feels is probably a mislynch

You like me doing OMGUS right.. Here you get the 200%.... Die scum!!!

VOTE: Desperado

classic AA OMGUS

OMMFG, I can't stop laughing for this.
If you flip town Despo I ll jump from the top of mount everest!!!

strong promises for AAscum, no?

Firstly.. Try to be Civil. And Stop being a dick head!!!! this is a warning!!! Next time I may not be so nice!!!!

classic arctown

I swear this was at 1990 less than five minutes ago. >_<

We're playing with hidden features!

Go back to your hydra, lazy bum!!!!

more of that teasing of people she likes

And who are you calling Horribad?? Get a life you punk!!! Huh!!

syryana knows why i like this one
her "huh!!" posts are usually hilariously and awesomely town
this one is no exception

[Nachomamma8]

tl;dr When Arc is town, she OMGUSes hard because she's used to scum attacking her for so long. She will also pick out people who have been easy targets, people who she feels like she can defend, and she will defend them from a position of authority (since she knows certain people will read her as town and she can hammer the hell out of them if they attack her). She's lighter as town because it's what she excels at, hence the occasional teasing with the people she interacts with. Her stronger, more aggressive posts are the ones she makes from that position of authority; she doesn't have it as scum and that's her strongest meta point.

[Nachomamma8]

pa is also town as shit

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho why are the redscum afraid of lynching you?

I read thez wrong in Street Racers. I helped him dodge a lynch in Street Racers. It's not that hard to assume that he thinks I'll defend him again, but this time I just ignored him until something interesting came up.

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=24478

[Nachomamma8]

OK FINE ILL PRETEND THAT I THINK YOU ARE TOWN

Jeez

I just want to be your friend

V/LA until Monday

<<< Noted. >>>

[Nachomamma8]

I read this game btw, no your explanation doesn't make any sense. You died n1, and had minimal impact on the game. I doubt he was defending you hoping that you'd defend him back. Much more likely that you are scum buddies.

Read where thez was being run up.

Vote: Thadmiral

[Nachomamma8]

all that scum hunting from the Haylen slot.

vote: Haylen/Rena

Vote: Nero Cain

Both are generally solid votes.

[Nachomamma8]

Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

It's things like this which make me scumread you.
You don't have a scumread on me that's strong enough for you to vote me.
But it is strong enough to declare other people town when I vote them.

[Nachomamma8]

The Haylen scumread which I never had?

[Nachomamma8]

This quote has absolutely nothing to do with anything and isn't a valid response. + it contradicts 3388. Why would he call Rena a solid vote if he didn't have a scum read?

By both are solid votes, I meant you and ThAd.

You rather me vote for you over other scum read in Haylen. Why?

You're acting like the one on me is stronger, so I wonder why you're voting her over me.

[Nachomamma8]

I suspect ThAd because this is the closest his slot has done to doing anything:

Actually I'm going to claim now, because it could potentially put things in to an interesting light.
I am also in a neighbourhood with one other member. I'm not going to claim them yet, in case they don't want to be revealed. CTD's stance about their being two scum/town neighborhoods, one for each scumteam, did pique my interest. I've seen the like before, although in this case I think my neighbour is town. Would it make sense for two separate random neighbourhoods though, containing entirely town?

And it's horrible. The fact that he keeps the person who shares the neighborhood with him secret in case they "want to keep it secret" feels like he's trying to exacerbate the CTD/Slandaar situation so CTD makes a stronger push on Slandaar still. DEsperado's neighbor claim afterwards feels more natural with the "I'm a neighbor too!" without any of the added bullshit this claim has.

I did start to question my neighbor's alignment. Let me put it this way - I tend to think they are town based on what they have said in this game and in the neighborhood thread, but on a game theory basis if there were 2 neighborhoods it would stand to reason that they were both infiltrated by scum.

Now that we know there are three once again it is likely that 2 of them have been infiltrated by scum. I think we are agreeing on the main points here. I actually think all the neighbours should claim so it is all out in the open, especially since we have mostly claimed anyway. I'm not claiming my partner because, I don't know, I guess its sort of rude to do it rather than let them claim themselves?

fuck it. It's peregrine.

And the fact that the only reason he didn't want to claim his neighbor is because it seems rude is a bit irrational and doesn't really work from his mindset. If he's looking to catch all of the scum from the neighborhoods, why isn't he open about throwing his partner out into the wild with him in order to be judged with the rest of the town? THAT reluctance seems like he's not willing to draw Peregrine's ire at all, which makes a lot more sense than "oh I was just trying to be polite".

[Nachomamma8]

I'd like Peregrine and Thad to elaborate about their neighborhood QT because as it stands now, wtf is that shit?

Curious. What elaboration would you like?

We're not quoting the thing, so what exactly are you requesting?

Are you suspicious of your partner? Do you know why his claiming is so awkward?

if rena flips scum I would look at nacho cos of the way she asked him about my specific meta and he gave like 2 sentences when I gave him a damn soliloquy.

what does this even mean?

That would be fucking awesome if it were true. Little mafia splinter group! How cute!

Can't you just take our word on the matter and leave us be for now?

It would be awesome if you could actually be something vaguely resembling town in the thread.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, what made you switch your vote from Thad to me?

your "scumcho is voting him, so he's probably town" post.

Asking for a case isn't scummy

, but I could do without the OMGUS that came with it.

tell that to KOC.

Though its not like reasons haven't been given.

They've been given in roundabout ways and it's not really that hard to requote them.

@Rena your attitude towards my playerslot is illogical at best, especially with you saying that only "idiot" scum wouldn't shoot me over Thor when we likely have 2 scumteams--therefore your implication that I am scum because I didn't die at night is invalid due to me STILL being able to be shot even if I was scum

Why didn't you address this point the first time I made it, instead opting to leave your vote where it was and not interact with me?

why do you think Rena as scum would miss this point?

I've never caught a scum before! It feels awesome! *squeals like a little girl*

you're about to be disappointed again

[Nachomamma8]

I think if she flips scum then I think nacho very well might her partner.

you know better than this mollie because this is crap

[Nachomamma8]

it has been my experience that when a player comments on the intelligence of the scumteam, they are usually scum. this is one of the most reliable tells I have ever had. I have seen town drop it in a lateral way and need some games to be completed to see how reliable the tell is when applied laterally but this is a very direct representation of that tell and as soon as I get the okay from fery we are going to vote you.

i think that players who prefer scum more are more likely to comment on how stupid the scumteam is
i also think it's a better tell under pressure because it's a subtle "oh, I'm not so stupid that I would do a kill THAT bad!"
and it also doesn't really work in multiball
since they are distancing themselves from one team, but not the other
sooo

[Nachomamma8]

I just think she's not addressing it, the same way you aren't addressing any of my points which indicate to me that you are scum

what points have i not addressed?

probably never voted scum this game

except the early push on Red Ryu, who was scum. remember him?

[Nachomamma8]

No, let's not.

[Nachomamma8]

I have ignored all your points where you've been "OHHH SCUM NACHO WOULD TOTALLY DO THAT", but I've ignored you on those points because the rebuttal is "No." which is sort of boring.

[Nachomamma8]

I think the "Nacho demanded I follow his scumreads in the heat of the moment" despite him saying that he is "not happy about his reads" is a pretty good reason to say nacho is scum

I said that a very long time ago in 1478:

Mollie, Bacde, I'm not screaming at you guys for being idiots this game because you do have a point because I'm not exactly happy with my reads yet. It's not that I'm lacking motivation for this game and it isn't that I'm being useless (that's bullshit, Bacde), but I definitely am not being as aggressive and on point this game because I just don't have things worked out yet. I have a pretty good scumread in Desperado, a pretty decent town core, but I don't feel comfortable with the game to the point that I usually do. Although, Bacde:

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

If I flip town, you're living in my scumlist for a while. You owe me that much.

Notice the word "yet". As in I'm confident that I'll be perfectly happy with my reads by then. Hell, I'm pretty happy with my reads now.

Next point I haven't addressed, please.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho it looks like you're posturing to switch to a bacde-vote so you might as well do it now

i'm never voting you no matter how idiotic and illogical you become

[Nachomamma8]

bacccdddeeeeee

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not calling Bacde scum.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho it looks like you're posturing to switch to a bacde-vote so you might as well do it now

i'm never voting you no matter how idiotic and illogical you become

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: PeregrineV

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Slandaar

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Amethyst Kitty

<<< Okay, now you're just taunting me. >_< >>>

[Nachomamma8]

Dude if your "yet" post indicated that you needed time before you would have strong reads, why did you demand that I follow your reads only 19 posts later?

That doesn't really seem like enough time for you to suddenly become confident of your reads

I demanded that you follow my reads in the "yet" post. Do you know why? Because if somehow on God's green earth you manage to mislynch me on D1, I'm going to have reads sexier than any read I've ever had before while I'm going down.

[Nachomamma8]

I know at least 2 players who drop this tell on a regular basis and neither of them like playing scum

EXACTLY

[Nachomamma8]

and you are making bi-polar as hell in this game about you in this game

like I am going to need therapy

first step is accepting that the problem is you and not me
second step is therapy

nacho if you are town look at this shit. look at it.

ummmmmmm
i don't think it's really rolefishing
considering if he was rolefishing, he would've checked to see if rena claimed people targetting bacde before he asked her about it
stupid question though

[Nachomamma8]

erm...what you are agreeing with exactly? I mean you said you think it comes from players who like to play scum and I am saying it does not matter. I have even seen praying do it and she loves to play scum.

I was saying that the tell is more effective from players who don't like to play scum. Players who like to play scum usually think along the lines of "who does that shot benefit?" and when it's a shit shot they are more likely to say so, meaning more false positives. I thought you were saying you found it from players who didn't like to play scum, which was where my EXACTLY came from.

she quoted her breadcrumb in the previous post so why would he need to check

because he's rolefishing and if all he cares about is finding power roles then he would probably check back and see if one was already outed so he didn't ask again

[Nachomamma8]

hey bacde

[Nachomamma8]

yanno this kind of reminds me of there is new scum in town game where fe was blatantly role-fishing on like p8 or something and noooooooby wanted to talk about that and mala tried to stop the convo it would not have outed any specials it would have outed scum and then what did fe flip oh my wasn't it scum.

with his "oh I didn't think there were any power roles" in an open game? this is a little different.

Nacho -

Explain your vote, kkthxbai.

I don't really plan to keep it there. I just want to have my suspects in Mastin's vote history.

[Nachomamma8]

we were chatting about all those points i missed

[Nachomamma8]

well you didn't even address the one in an adequate way because I don't understand your "sexy" reads post so

start with that if you want me to move on to another point

you thought that i was scummy because i was telling you to follow my reads if I was mislynched on D1 but I wasn't satisfied with my reads
the answer is that I would be satisfied with my reads by the end of Day 1. what more do you want than that?

not to mention that the original point was that i was ignoring you
and I haven't been ignoring you.

no that isn't what I am talking about at all. I am talking about when he was blatantly trying to fish out whether someone had a night action or not. kind of like what bulba is doing.

when was that?

[Nachomamma8]

no that isn't what I am talking about at all. I am talking about when he was blatantly trying to fish out whether someone had a night action or not. kind of like what bulba is doing.

when was that?

it starts here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4472920

>.>

[Nachomamma8]

stop trolling me nacho, this is mafia and it is srs bizness!

you're comparing Fe saying that he thought someone had a night action and that was a scumslip because he didn't think anyone had any night actions with bulba wanting rena to fullclaim after she's claimed watcher. he didn't ask who targetted players, he asked IF anyone targetted players, which could confirm/destroy the claim without outting anyone at all.

[Nachomamma8]

not really.

[Nachomamma8]

all that scum hunting from the Haylen slot.

vote: Haylen/Rena

Vote: Nero Cain

Both are generally solid votes.

You're right Nero. I am lying. The reason I voted you was because of this post exactly.

Still think its a possibility that Bcade was early distancing from scumCho.

you think that bacde was trying to bus me?

[Nachomamma8]

all that scum hunting from the Haylen slot.

vote: Haylen/Rena

Vote: Nero Cain

Both are generally solid votes.

You're right Nero. I am lying. The reason I voted you was because of this post exactly.

Still think its a possibility that Bcade was early distancing from scumCho.

you think that bacde was trying to bus me?

nerooooo

[Nachomamma8]

I misremembered that post because I was talking about it with it.
But the post I voted you for is quoted in my votepost.

[Nachomamma8]

I misremembered that post because I was talking about it with it.
But the post I voted you for is quoted in my votepost.

you actually think that my vote on Rena is a scumtell?!?

it was a lazy bullshit vote. there are a lot of slots that haven't done shit to scumhunt (ThAd's is a big one), but why do you single out Rena?

Nacho is acting skeezy imo and nothing he's done has changed that

Still trying to talk with you about it. You're still ignoring me.

I think there is a compelling reason not to do this. Stoppit.

I could be wrong though.

This is starting to make assumptions that are useless and a little stupid, yet easily exploitable. Don't do this.

what does town nacho feel like?

how is town nacho different than scum nacho?

Do you want to explain this? You've said that town Nacho is better than scum Nacho, but you haven't really talked about things past that.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho are you serious about this nero scumread

cuz I'ma need you to walk me through this

if you're right, you would completely change my read on you

so I wanna see this

you can answer my question first.

it was a lazy bullshit vote. there are a lot of slots that haven't done shit to scumhunt (ThAd's is a big one), but why do you single out Rena?

yeah 'cause I haven't been scumreading that slot since day 1. Fucking die scum.

You were scumreading Fuzzy's slot for "not scumhunting", while not scumreading ActionDan for "not scumhunting" or Hanzo for "not scumhunting" or ThAd for "not scumhunting".

I don't think we are talking about the same thing

Good.

After ActionDan propositioned DLG and DLG, weeping, stated how that love must remain unrequited, they decided that even though there love was never meant to be, at least they shared a win condition. And dammit, that was good enough for them.
Then, I came in, and not to be an ass, I decided that I too, loved Hanzo the mute. Hanzo the mute said nothing, but ThAd came and promised not to screw me over like last time. And dammit, that was good enough for us.

Well, that's not good enough for me.

I can probably do that at some point. Honestly, I've thought this whole game that part of the reason Nacho's townreading me when most people aren't is because I'm playing totally differently (and worse) from that game.

Yup. Your read changes in particular that game were opportunistic as hell, whereas here you end up waffling, you express being unsure a LOT more in thread, everything feels more natural here. But if PV wants to hear a "detailed analysis", then he's going to have to actually put some effort into the game.

Also, I'm disappointed in a lot of you for not even looking at my Bacde case.

I seriously, seriously don't think Bacde is scum.

Bacde is playing different then I've seen him as town + it looks like he's being pretty fickle.

Since when is Bacde being fickle a scumtell?

Vote: ThAdmiral

[Nachomamma8]

*yawn*

Wake me when I get to -1

we'll probably just lynch you when you get to L-1 if all you're going to do when getting wagonned is "why me? why me?"
who do you think is scum?

[Nachomamma8]

Unvote, Vote: Nero Cain

Hey, AK. It doesn't matter because he just claimed vig.

[Nachomamma8]

I dont think u should shoot nacho.

Nacho, why nero??

~Mara

I don't like his push on the Rena slot because it's lazy as fuck and scummy. He was attacking fuzzy for "not scumhunting" D1, and now is attacking Haylen for "not scumhunting" on D3. His on-off supicion of me sucks in general (I suspect you because you suspect me and you have no case and you scumslipped), his exchange with Angel about his fake vig power smelled fake from a mile away, and his suspicion of Bacde "this is not like the town Bacde I KNOW" even thought he doesn't really have any experience with him in the first place is just terrible. His backdown from his scumslip on me when Khan questioned him on his thoughts of a me-Bacde partnership smelled fake, as does his reasons shifting from LIAR SCUM to "I'm just paranoid because they suspected me for no reason ".

Scumreading AK but I have better ideas.

Unvote, Vote: penguin_alien

No, penguin is probably town.

Don't dilly dally too long, once bacde and Nacho get back here I know we'll have AK at 6. Thad is better left to prove himself or die failing.

I don't wanna vote AK anymore.

Why do you waffle on me Mollie? I might be ok with an AK lynch, but if AK flips scum we are deff killing Bulb.

I thought Bulb was scum with me, not AK.

[Nachomamma8]

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.

Can you start being useful sometime soon?

Love,
Nacho

[Nachomamma8]

So why was it not scummy on days 1 and 2? Why was my attack on Rena scummy but you didn't question any of the other players that followed me onto Rena?

It wasn't as scummy on Day 1 and Day 2 because I had other people in mind and I liked you from our exchange about mollie earlier. Now, I'm not so sure. I questioned you because I found your trail onto Rena suspect; I didn't pay attention to the others.

I'm relatively certain that I wasn't. Though I did find it scummy when he claimed he was way back on page 3. That looked like some hardcore stalling.

Seems pretty trutful to me considering he ended up replacing out not too long after.

IDK, I think all three of you are scummy. This whole "guess who my buddies are" is just cheeky scum trying to squirm out of a lynch.

It's me trying to figure out your thought process.

Vote: Nacho

Why are you totally ignoring my request?

I didn't. I'm not necessarily completely complying with it, but I didn't ignore it.

Nacho, why don't you want to lynch AK anymore?

They seem town to me.

In all seriousness though I tried to be useful about 10-15 pages back with some wagon analysis, and that is when everyone jumped on me.

So instead of taking it as "we see the content you're producing and we don't really like it" you took it as "stop producing content"? Come on now.

I am also under the impression that he is a better player than this.

This is one of those things that always lead down bad bad roads. He might be a better player than you expect even though you don't agree with his reasoning, and he might be completely on track. On the other hand, he might not be used to this and it's frying his scumdar, OR you might be holding him up to unrealistic explanations. I've never really listened to this kind of reasoning unless people have had personal experience with the person before saying something like this.

No, never mind. Peregrine is town

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Why is this?

UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.

Mollie, I didn't like this at all.

I just don't buy that he's a vig.

Do you think that he's a serial killer? Otherwise, there's no reason you should vote him today.

[Nachomamma8]

Nero, what is your read on Arc?

[Nachomamma8]

You could probably unvote because they are town and not keep voting them because "multiball".

[Nachomamma8]

Holy fuck Nacho, I just spent an hour working with Mala to do a full list of reads. use it

~Mara

I will be slightly disconnected from the game until Sunday. All of my posts until then will mostly be staying up to date. I haven't had a chance to look at your reads list yet.

[Nachomamma8]

thad can you work on getting into this game a little more? i'll promise to stop being so condescending if you do.

does this look like the same mara in polygamy? or popcorn?

polygamy times thousands

[Nachomamma8]

thad can you work on getting into this game a little more? i'll promise to stop being so condescending if you do.

I notice you aren't on the ak wagon even though it is your rival, so to speak. What are your thoughts on ak and the wagon itself?

I think that AK is town and I don't like Seanald on that wagon. Everyone else has varying degrees of townreads.

[Nachomamma8]

Because I was looking for something a little more comprehensive, like

I'm not that familiar with Cephrir's meta.

see, I don't think mara is acting at all like she did in polygamy. she seems too calm, almost like she is being coached. I see the same behaviour in popcorn either other than she was calmer in that game to a degree, she just didn't know what to say when wisdom went after her and I was not around to help. I have been negging on her scum game hard <---- cos I want her to improve her game. she and mala will understand this and I think so will you.

I see what you mean; I have my little flags here and there, but I'm not really sure which way I want to move with it, you know? I felt Mara was town in polygamy and I felt she was scum in popcorn although in both cases I allowed bigger things to override that gut read. So I'm trying to recalibrate or whatever the hell you people call it. It doesn't really feel she's being coached, though? Mala scum is easier for me to pick out than Mara scum (usually) since Mala's scum game is better developed and I know what to expect from it. The big posts don't seem like Mala scum, but I'll go back through them later to see if anything better comes up.

[Nachomamma8]

I like the Seanald wagon. I'm tired of him doing nothing but hopping between myself and the biggest wagon. And I know I can hardly be objective in the matter but his suspicion of me as well as dat vote on AK were pretty terrible.

They're terrible, but I don't really have a definite opinion on his terrible choices.

I'm not feeling an AK scum. It seems too easy.

I could easily see Seanald as scum ie lurking through most of the days to the extent I forget he's actually playing this game, coming in to bandwagon that sort of thing.

AK is too easy, but Seanald isn't?

Honestly I'm leery that everyone thinks he is town (even though I used to). Looking back I don't see much to imply he's as towny as everyone says he is.

>.>

I suppose of the options to lynch among the neighbors, I'd rather lynch one whose own co-neighbor finds him scummy, although the PeregrineV-ThAdmiral mutual admiration society still makes me leery.

I agree, but it's the Peregrine side that bothers me the most.

Alternately, if your reading indicates Seanald is town, then you should mention that.
Or, if you find an independent reason why Seanald is scummy, then you could mention that and vote him.
Or, if you find holes or weaknesses in Desparado's case you can point those out.

I don't find this horribly interesting or useful.

Nero-scum knows if ThAd is going to be useful to him based on the people he expressed a willingness to shoot. It's exactly the kind of stance scum would want to take if they're not aligned with the people in the crosshair. Keeping ThAd lynchable ("I think he is scum") while letting him do your dirty work. Unlike every other person who's waffled on ThAd, he doesn't want to keep him alive so he can prove his claim or because he actually believes the claim, but simply so he can be "useful".

I agree with this.

My point is that wagon analysis would be unreliable if no one disagreed with the lynch.

;_; you're not getting my point. It's not unreliable if you analysis it against the other wagons.

I'm not getting your point either, to be honest.

I see alot of town nero thought process and alot of town-Nero emotion, confusion, irritation ect... stuff that I experienced with him when I hydra'd with him.

You don't need to go post by post, but you need a hell of a lot more than this.

Khan calls me out for speculating on the setup. If he thought it was scummy for me to speculate, why did he not call out the others that were setup speculating? Ergo I'm questioning why he found my setup speculation to be scummy and trying to determine if he's being honest.

This is the second time you've done this.

The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

what does this even mean
"you think a person who other people find scummy is town? RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE"

Yep, my bad. The slot is obvious town 'cause scum NEVER replace out.

No, but when someone says they are lost and then replaces out, it means that they are probably lost and not malevolently stalling for time.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Amethyst Kitty

AK is not dying today.. Seanald is today's lynch!!!
Stop pushing counter wagons!!!!!!!!

Arc, Nero has a leaning scum read on you. Why?

[Nachomamma8]

yea, that reason sucks but you're still a freshman and I could see that coming from newtown. Welp, back to OS.

vote:OS

But I also echo Nacho here, if OS flips scum then you need death.

RYU defending OS hard here...

Note to self: OS doesn't comment on Mollie's huge deflect

I didn't like that Nero's push on OS came with so many "ignoring him? you must be scum with him" remarks. It's essentially discrediting everyone who goes against the wagon; I liked his push on me a lot better and he didn't bring up all that shit when pulling it, but that could also be because multiball and he thought he might have caught me out as scum. The strength of the read and how long it carried on doesn't really make sense, though; his case on me was for questioning him on the mollie third party comments, and that scumread has stuck until now.

I think ya'lls vote on Nacho was rather opportunistic. Nacho already had 3 votes on him. You laid down a 4th vote supposedly oblivious to the budding Nacho wagon, which is something that seems like it would be easy to fake. And then when I call you on it you minorly flip out and pull out the "hey look over there" defense by telling me that I should look at bcade.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oversoul

Le't do this.

Le't do this.

VOTE: Oversoul

Vote: Oversoul

K.

Unvote, Vote: Oversoul

....really all in one page right in a row, someone is scum here. I lean nacho/Cephrir most.

This, but its also likely multiball so OS could still be scum.

+ its OS and I'd love to lynch that.

But considering the strength of Nero's scumread against me, I find it strange as fuck that he keeps on jumping on people who were unlikely buddies with me. I also have no idea where the multiball assertion came from (completely out of nowhere), but his endorsement of an OS wagon while voting me and while people are saying there are likely scum in the OS jump was scummy as fuck.

you scum? Why would you care about who I fake vig tonight?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

This was a bullshit line of reasoning and I hate it. Nero accused Arc of being scummy because she wanted to know who he would fake vig and that was rolefishing apparently... I figured he was trolling because the reasoning was so bad, but apparently not.

Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

He can vote for mislynches when I'm voting them because it's probably multiball. But when I'm attacking someone he doesn't want me to attack, he can call him town because I'm attacking them. That's convenient as fuck and I don't really see how town-Nero could ever have a thought process like this.

would I ever do without you? Thank you for telling me what *I* think. I have scum reads on both of you and I'm not picky in who we lynch.

And now he's talking about how his read on Fuzzy is as strong as his read on me, but. He's been voting me the entire game...

I don't think so. Given that they have history, it looks more like scum-Bacde obfuscating any potential read that Nachomamma8 can get on him.

Eh, Nacho looks like scum to me. I guess they could be scum from different teams.

"Not scum together? Multiball."

To be clear, he attacked fuzzy for stalling on page 3 and then attacked Hayrena for not scumhunting.

We aren't shooting or lynching me at all. Bcade and Nacho want me dead for shit all reason and it makes me paranoid.

Nero getting paranoid about me doesn't make sense, considering he's been scumreading me the entire game.

This whole "Nacho is a good scumhunter so he as town has to be correct about Nero." is nothing but a big pile of bullshit and potential chain lynching. It also seems incredibly lazy.

Bacde says that he'll probably suspect Nero if I'm vigged and flipped town, Nero flips the fuck out.

Yep, my bad. The slot is obvious town 'cause scum NEVER replace out.

Nero's response to me saying that fuzzy being lost was genuine since he replaced out immediately after, and Nero Cain overreacts.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think Mastin would have three town neighborhoods and I doubt scum would claim if they were neighbors together.

There's something wrong with this picture.

Setup spec, generally useless. Why not wait until we have more information to sort out the neighborhoods? Why is it crucial we focus on them now?

[Nachomamma8]

We have one neighbor (ThAd) who has a x-Shot vig and wants to shoot another neighbor (CTD). (ThAd) is not listening to what the town wants and rather put things in his own hands.

We have currently one neighbor close to L-3 (now I believe) (Seanald) and his own neighbor (Despo) who is 'testing' wagons and now trying to bring light back to our wagon.

CTD's neighbor (Slandaar) is doing flips and jumps.

ThAd's neighbor (PV) is actually being helpful right now. So I don't have anything to say regarding him.

This doesn't mean we should focus on the neighbor group.

[Nachomamma8]

I doubt that every group present right here is town/town.

maybe it is, maybe it isn't
i doubt every person here is town, so maybe we should lynch the scum instead of possibly getting pulled into a mislynch factory? if "they are neighbors and there are scum in the neighbors" comes into play for a reason for lynching them, you're walking down a dangerous path. what do you think of my thoughts on Nero?

[Nachomamma8]

Is it your Nero townread as well?

[Nachomamma8]

come up with PV as the one you don't have any issues with...

Agreed with this x10.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't think people were aware you were responding, Nero.

[Nachomamma8]

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

Yes, because he was white knighting. That doesn't mean everyone who defends someone else is white knighting.

A basic understanding of large game site meta. Stop being dumb.

You could talk about this a little more because we've all played in large normals before and they sure as hell aren't always multiball.

and why do you think that town Angel would care about my fake vig?

I don't know why. But I do think that she wouldn't be bold enough as scum to ask you about your fake vig if she thought you were a power role because she would be afraid you would turn it against her.

context is important here. ⅔ blue scum are dead. This means there’s only one blue scum left. Unless you are claiming to be the last blue scum (and therefore hunting redscum) then he does have a much higher chance of being town.

What makes me redscum?

So? I can have a scum read on more than one person. You are doing it so why are you being a hypocrite. This is also a lie ‘cause I started out both day 2 and 3 voting for Rena.

Then why do you still suspect Bacde? He's town if Haylen is voting him, right?

That’s ‘cause I wasn’t “getting” paranoid about you two.

Then what were you trying to say in that quote?

Yea ‘cause Bacade’s “Nacho is a good scumhunter so Nero has to be scum” made so much sense. I know that I’m town so any lynch/vig shot on me would be a waste. But I guess you’ll be ok with getting lynched/vigged when I flip town right?

Bacde was saying that he could be lynched if I flipped town, but you didn't find issue in that. You only freaked out when he suggested you be shot on my townflip.

That was NOT was was said. I was obviously being sarcastic.

I realize that, yeah.

<<< Fixed a quote tag. >>>

[Nachomamma8]

The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

what does this even mean

"you think a person who other people find scummy is town? RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE"

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

So I'm scum if AK flips scum, and I'm scum if AK flips town? Can you make up your mind, so I know exactly why I'm scum?

Well I have no clue what you are doing. Lets say for instance, if Ryu had flipped before OS. I'm pretty sure we'd have a group of players that would have thought that Ryu might have been defending a buddy and some that might think that Ryu was defending town for town cred. Town really has no way of knowing what scum are doing.

But we can kill it.

vote:Bulb

You accuse Bulb of being scum defending scum.
Then you accuse him of being scum defending town.
Then you get called out on it.
Your response is that you have no idea what he's doing but he's scum anyways because scum defended another player.
Fuck no.

[Nachomamma8]

Why is Nero scum for attacking people who aren't likely your buddy when you're his top scum read, but Khan isn't for doing something similar to me?

Khan isn't clearing people because you are attacking them and calling you scum with people who are attacking you.

No one ever said anything about large normal and no one said anything about them being always multiball.

The games you listed don't really show a strong trend towards multiball/not multiball. So why did you end up assuming that it was multiball?

What does that have to do with Thad?

You just said ThAd isn't town if I'm blue scum, meaning that since you called him town, I'm assuming you have some reason for me being redscum. What is it?

And what does that have to do with you lying that I never voted for Hayrena? Bacde is more a vibe then anything but I could sit down and point out some posts that have bothered me if you really care that much.

You're saying that your scumread on Haylen and your scumread on me is equal. So why can you clear ThAd for being attacked by me but you can't clear Bacde for being attacked by Haylen?

of course he's not town. That's why you should be helping me lynch it.

I want hear nacho thoughts on this.. btw Nacho is town!!

Bulba seems town to me so far. I don't mind the Seanald counterwagon because Seanald was a lurker lynch and I'm not so convinced he's scum quite yet.

[Nachomamma8]

you know that i would not call somene town unless my gut hardly says.. Nero is town. and If feel you're town. So, Now stop pissing each other..

Unvote, Vote: Seanald

And also i want to know what your thoughts on Cephier.

Cephrir's probably town.

let's look at cephrir. does anybody seriously believe that cephrir has no idea what to do with thad's "trolling". omg, no. I mean that is what cephrir is saying, "I have no idea what to do about thad's trolling cos I have just never encountered it before!". oh plz.

I've learned that trolling can apparently throw people off in extremely weird ways.

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

this essentially is dragonballz
and sooner or later everything will just click and a bunch of scum will die and everything will be okay.

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

they're town.

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play.

I trust mollie's (and AA's, believe it or not) instincts when dealing with Nero. Sometimes he plays great, sometimes he plays incredibly scummily, self-destructs, etc.

My problem with your Nero case lately is that we still don't even know it's multiball. If it isn't, your entire case goes up in flames. I think my Seanald case is stronger than your Nero case, straight up.

two kills per night --> claimed vig who hasn't shot --> "blue" scum all sort of equals multiball
if ThAd gets counterclaimed by bullets and flips blue scum, then maybe it's not multiball but that's looking HIGHLY unlikely at this point.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm mostly trusting others's instincts on Nero; mollie's usually better at flushing out people who melt the fuck down in the way that Nero's done. He also hasn't really been opportunistic when going down, and while I seriously don't understand the shit around multiball claims and still have a lot of things that bother me about him, I'm willing to give him some semblance of a chance. I do want to explore PV, though because his play here is looking suspiciously empty as shit.

[Nachomamma8]

I mean, let's go through a magical adventure through Peregrine's ISO and see what he's done so far this game.

I will when I get to that part, but I think you would have a vested interest in understanding your wagon.

I'm actually pretty interested in hearing how you interpret my wagon. I've talked about my wagon enough in previous posts that it's sort of a waste to do it again, but I'm interested in what conclusions you reach about it.

How I interpret it is less important than how you do. If you are lynched and town, we have honest info. If you are not town, we have info.

It also let's me achieve dual interest in the thread, both back and front.

Now this is cool and for a good reason and all but you know what type of dual interest Peregrine had? None at all. He had no followup, no comment, no nothing on what I had to post, no actual catch up post made, nothing.

New day- new fun. Night reads made me want to look for Eddie+bluescum connections, but I guess not.

If I were to do some selected readings, anyone have recommendations?

oh cool more useless crap
take a wild guess and see if he's done any of the selected reading
(answer is HELL NO)

As for bussing, I'd listen to arguements that bluescum went straight to bussing, and arguements that bluescum tried other wagons first, and arguments that bluescum avoided bussing.

Excerpt from Peregrine's Votecount History Saga. This is the closest thing that ended up being a conclusion in any sense, and his conclusion was "maybe bluescum bussed, didn't bus, or waited to bus".

Vote: Nacho

Why are you totally ignoring my request?

There's his first original vote of the game, which is voting me for ignoring a request (even though I didn't).

Alternately, if your reading indicates Seanald is town, then you should mention that.
Or, if you find an independent reason why Seanald is scummy, then you could mention that and vote him.
Or, if you find holes or weaknesses in Desparado's case you can point those out.

Oh, you're town catching up and looking at Desperado's case? If you find an independent reason why Seanald is town or scum, you can tell us! If you find something wrong with the case, let us know!

AKA this is actually the most useless post in this game and is the picture of active lurking

My thoughts from the vote history:

Red Ryu was either killed because Red Mafia was looking to kill Blue Mafia, or Red Mafia wanted to get rid of a strong townie.

The fact that his wagon got to 6(?) votes at one point means he couldn't have been too townie, so he was probably killed while being scumhunted by Red Mafia.

Since I think that rather than waste thier kill on the Blue mafia team if they can help it, Red Mafia would first try, in some way shape or form, to lynch Blue mafia if they can.

More useless shit based on a false dichotomy.

The ONLY thing that he's done at all is defend ThAd, who happens to be a person with a SHOT that I'm sure Peregrine would love to direct for the sake of his team. He talks about his notes a lot, he talks about the need to read a lot, but I've seen absolutely nothing from his actual readthrough, and I've seen pretty much nothing except for lazy VCA and nightkill speculation done completely, horribly wrong. Last time PV was scum in a game with me, he got caught out for active lurking like a motherfucker. And now he's starting to repeat old patterns, and I'm left feeling like I just figured out PV-scum to a T.

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

ffery, I read this game and I don't think Seanald is scum here.
Do you agree or am I reading too much into his approach?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: PeregrineV

And for my last act, I'm going to make mastin proud.

GOD DAMNIT HD YOU FUCKING RUINED EVERYTHING

[Nachomamma8]

Spoiler: Master Votecount History List

Mac | thezmon221:

Red Ryu

| fuzzybutternut->

Oversoul

thezmon221

CrashTextDummie:

Oversoul

->DLG->Nachomamma8 Slandaar->Cephrir->

thezmon221

->Cephrir ThAdmiral->Nero Cain

Cephrir:

Oversoul

->BeautyAndTheBeast->Unvote->fuzzybutternut->Desperado->Haylen->

Oversoul

Haylen->

thezmon221

Rena->ThAdmiral->penguin_alien->Amethyst Kitty->Seanald->Nero Cain

Nachomamma8:

Oversoul

->Desperado->Baby Spice->

Oversoul

Amethyst Kitty->

thezmon221

ThAdmiral->Nero Cain->PeregrineV->Slandaar->Amethyst Kitty->ThAdmiral->Nero Cain

DLG | PeregrineV: ArcAngel9 | Unvote->

Oversoul

Nachomamma8->Seanald

Nero Cain:

Oversoul

->

EddieFenix

->

Oversoul

->Nachomamma8->BeautyAndTheBeast->Nachomamma8->

Oversoul

Haylen->

thezmon221

Rena->Nachomamma8->Bulbazak

EddieFenix:

BeautyAndTheBeast->Bulbazak->Nachomamma8->Unvote->

Oversoul

thezmon221

Bulbazak:

Oversoul

->Om the Destroyer->

Red Ryu

->Bacde->Desperado->

Oversoul

Bacde->Unvote ffullisade->Bacde->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote->Nero Cain->Seanald->Unvote

Thor665:

Red Ryu

->BeautyAndTheBeast->

Red Ryu

Haylen->Amethyst Kitty

Red Ryu:

Nachomamma8->penguin_alien (Baby Spice)->Nachomamma8->Desperado->

Oversoul

Syryana:

Red Ryu

->ArcAngel9->Desperado->Baby Spice->Desperado->

Oversoul

Desperado: DLG->Nachomamma8->ArcAngel9->Nachomamma8->Oversoul

thezmon221

ThAdmiral->Rena->ThAdmiral->Nero Cain->Amethyst Kitty->ThAdmiral->Seanald->Unvote->Amethyst Kitty->Nero Cain

Baby Spice | penguin_alien:

Red Ryu

->Cephrir->Nachomamma8 | Unvote->

Oversoul

->Unvote Haylen ThAdmiral->Unvote->ThAdmiral->PeregrineV->Seanald

Slandaar: Nachomamma8->Thor665->Desperado Thor665->Cephrir->Thor665->thezmon221 Amethyst Kitty->Rena->Desperado->ThAdmiral->Amethyst Kitty->PeregrineV->Seanald->Rena

Oversoul:

Red Ryu

->Nachomamma8->fuzzybutternut->Nachomamma8->Desperado

Seanald: Nachomamma8 Cephrir->

thezmon221

Rena->Cephrir->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote

ActionDan Hanzo_5 ThAdmiral: Desperado

thezmon221

Nachomamma8->Seanald

fuzzybutternut | Haylen:

Oversoul

->Cephrir->Bulbazak->Om the Desroyer | Unvote->

Oversoul

->Unvote Bacde Bacde->Unvote

Kublai Khan: BeautyAndTheBeast->

Red Ryu

->

Oversoul

->Baby Spice->

Oversoul

thezmon221

Bacde->Amethyst Kitty

Amethyst Kitty: Nachomamma8->Cephrir->Nachomamma8->Unvote->Desperado->EddieFenix EddieFenix->Unvote->Cephrir->thezmon221->Unvote Seanald->Kublai Khan->Desperado->Kublai Khan

BeautyAndTheBeast: Cephrir->Nachomamma8->Unvote->Cephrir->Nachomamma8->Unvote->Cephrir->Nachomamma8->Cephrir->Nachomamma8->Unvote->

Oversoul

->Nachomamma8->Nero Cain->

Oversoul

->Unvote->Nero Cain->

Oversoul

Thor665

->

thezmon221

->Unvote Rena->Unvote->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote->Amethyst Kitty->Nero Cain

Om the Destroyer:

Red Ryu

->BeautyAndTheBeast->Bulbazak->Bacde->Bulbazak->Bacde->Nachomamma8->Desperado->penguin_alien->Desperado Haylen Rena->ThAdmiral

ArcAngel9:

Red Ryu

->Desperado Desperado Cephrir->Amethyst Kitty->Desperado->Seanald

[Nachomamma8]

I've melted down? The fuck?

yeah when you start going all "they're gonna lynch me " it's a meltdown in my book.
sry

A quick scan through his ISO there shows a lot of feigned confusion, which lines up with his reaction here to his neighbor buddy pushing on him. What are you seeing as different here?

In that other game, Seanald was essentially a parasite who hooked onto strong town players and followed the fuck out of them. He did not give a SHIT in determining people's alignment, and that was evident. Here, he waits for me to respond before sheeping Bacde, he's clear that he hasn't read the game and yet somehow manages to give more original opinions in the game where he didn't mention that fact. Here, he asks CTD about his opinion on Bacde who he was planning to sheep, waits on it a bit, trusts Bacde. If he was scum in this game, he would be playing a hundred times the game he played there BUT he talks in that postgame chat like he ended up investing more time there than here.

First of all, if he was scum neighbored to a claimed vig, do we think he would leave that vig alive? Maybe, if said vig's suspicions were incorrect.

ActionDan read his predecessor as town as fuck and then flaked. If I was scum and I ended up in a QT with a vig who was calling me town and thinking about shooting people who weren't on my team then hell yeah I would leave him alive.

Second, outguessing the mod a bit, do we think a vig would be neighbored to scum? Okay, again, maybe.

Again, hell yes. It rewards both vig and scum for doing their job well. If vig roots out scum, then he can shoot him silently during the night, maybe even get a power role claim beforehand. If vig successfully finds town, mason buddy. If scum can manipulate the vig, he can use his shots as pretty much a second nightkill or root out a power role early as fuck.

But I think what I'm trying to say here is that I want to find out whether ThAd is a vig first

I don't think that's necessary.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't address it because I don't leave people alive for information ever. I just get all the information I need and kill them in prompt time as opposed to letting them hang on their tiny scummy threads for like three game days and then finally dying when town gets their shit together.

[Nachomamma8]

oh yeah i'll totally do something with that votecount stuff just not yet
in true mastin fashion

<<< <3 >>>

[Nachomamma8]

mollie what do you think about peregrine?

[Nachomamma8]

mollie what do you think about peregrine?

I have played a million games with perv and I still can't read him

but the fact that I keep forgetting that he is even playing reminds of adventure time....and all of his other games.

i was hoping someone discovered the secret

Hmm, okay probably not.

Still, your Balbazak wagon is bad. He's very town.

I didn't like this at all.

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

[Nachomamma8]

He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.

Nacho did you know what CTD was doing?

I knew that he proposed a D1 massclaim every game.

Nacho, thoughts on Ryu and DLG?

Ryu seems scummier lately, but DLG is still clean.

People really just like wagoning me for whatever reason. I don't think I've ever gone through a game where people have not either wagoned me or suspected me for a long period of time.

When I do strange things I usually get wagoned, see AFFC where I mixed up my role PM, see 90s Cartoon Mafia where I did another gambit, see First Time Mafia where people did not necessarily wagon me for my gambit claim, but they did announce suspicion.

It isn't a tell in that "if a player gambits, they will be voted" but more so "if Oversoul does something strange, he will be voted".

I will try to give reads on the people who reacted for those who asked, but don't expect them to be timely. Also expect that post to be long.

So you did something weird so you would be wagonned, so people would attack you. Even though you thought this would happen anyway?

@Nacho no its not a shitty gambit to do as town, if he is actually informed then its helpful for him to reveal his information ASAP. Also my reasoning is pretty much that your play in this game isn't your town play. Thats it.

1. He's not informed. The information he provided was useless.
2. You can't just say that this isn't my town play when you don't really know what the difference between my town play and scum play is.

Nacho has been tunneling a read and shown he has never tried to read into intent, he has shown he wants a lynch.

You still aren't answering my question.

Eddie and Slandaar and Oversoul seriously wtf?

I'm trying to move this game in a direction and you three are being deliberately anti-town by not even responding to my strong assertion I made just 4 posts ago

guys bc is right. this is scum nacho we are seeing

VOTE: nacho

Really.

Nacho claimed he was gonna lynch Oversoul because on the sole fact, he claimed informed townie and said there were two killing roles in them game.

He said the information was not possible and useless.

It should be quite the opposite, but if the possibility of him thinking this as town and just focusing hard on this is up think again.

I noticed that Oversoul was lying. I pushed him for a lynch on the basis that he was lying about his role, I could see why he would want to claim it as scum, and I couldn't see why he wanted to claim it as town.

when he had no knowledge that his info was not legitimate,

I gathered his information was not legitimate because it was essentially useless. That was not really that difficult to do. Then, when it comes to light that the information was useless, you... keep pushing me. Because I didn't consider the possibility of him telling the truth. Even though he wasn't.

hey nacho there is this game you are ignoring

Not this one!

Right. You on the Nacho wagon, then? Otherwise, get on it. He's been deliberately avoiding this thread; posting elsewhere and didn't even bother to check in here.

Majiffy.

I'm starting to come around somewhat just based on the avoiding the thread thing. That's the only thing though.

I haven't been avoiding the thread. I wasn't around for a little while, had to play catchup elsewhere. So I saved this one for last considering there was a lot of reading to do but it's still Day 1 here.

Mafia would not figure that info out on D1 off their size when they lack to knowledge of what town has.

We could try and piece it by D3, but we still could lack info on how kills work, what if they are alternating with opposite scum teams, one gets it on odd night, the other on even nights? What if some of these were town one shots? We don't know this til claims and flip roll around. Off how many people die is not a surefire tell.

Mafia would figure out if there were two teams D1 based on size unless the teams are very uneven, which is unlikely because this is a normal game and not a theme game where powers are a lot better than numbers. We could probably piece it together on D2; town one shots don't really matter much since vigs usually use their shots early. If the only information an informed townie has is "there are at least two killing roles" and the other killing role is a town one-shot, then that information doesn't really help us much except to confirm the one-shot vig if the kill doesn't go through, which is unlikely unless he's an idiot. We don't KNOW for sure by Day 2, but 9 times out of 10 we can take a damn good guess, and we don't really need an informed townie to tell us that we're correct. That was my logic for pushing Oversoul; I knew he was lying, and, because I saw that it had more scum motivation than town motivation, I pushed him for it.

I don't even know why you think that I'm mafia for seeing through a fakeclaim and pushing someone for it; acceptable town responses are to monitor, or to put him under pressure to see how, if at all, he decides to retract his fakeclaim. In this case, Oversoul said "oh yeah it was a gambit that I did because people attack me when I do weird things" or some shit like that, so yes, I am a little hesitant to back down when until recently everything he has posted has had to do with reactions from his gambit that he hasn't really talked about or who's ignoring massclaim or gambit claim, which, if we're talking about "mechanical and fake", then Oversoul's analysis of things definitely seems like both of those.

There's this:

My claim was a gambit. I am not an informed townie. I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

As to why I contradicted myself, I did because I legitimately wasn't thinking when I answered the first time. I kept being vague or outright not answering the question because I wanted more people to react to my claim and unfortunately only a handful of players did.

Where "reactions" isn't really that good of a reason. Why informed townie? When

did

you decide to claim informed townie?

Mac seems town so far. There's not a whole lot pointing either way, but I like his interactions with fuzzy so far; fuzzy is a player that's pretty hard to nail down, and Mac has been aggressively attacking him, trying to get something out of it. I also thought the point made in #746 was pretty good.

CTD also seems fairly town so far, although his reasons for being town are a hell of a lot easier to explain. I've seen him push the massclaim idea before as scum, and this is a different beast entirely. I like that he followed up on it after I started easing up a lot (mostly his analysis), and the way his townread on me formed and then weakened a little bit was extremely transparent and townish. He was willing to defend his idea when he got a little traction, and when that traction ran out, he still found something more from it. He also easily found other things to look at and didn't stall in coming up with scumreads and townreads, regardless of his massclaiming shenanigans. He's probably town.

Cephrir's sort of gotten railroaded into defending me a couple of times, but has maintained sufficient paranoia of me the entire game. I like that because it weakens the wagon and weakens the claim on the wagon, but doesn't mean that he actually gains any cred for defending me. His attack on Thor for being overaggressive seemed a little strange, but it was a fair attack considering his mindset, and his progression from Thor to Oversoul was pretty genuine. His mid-back off from B&B seemed fairly town motivated; he was comfortable in arguing with them, but held back a little when the argument pretty much became a semantics fight. His response to B&B accusing him of having unexplained townreads was the reads list in #797, which is a fitting response to the interaction and seemed more like a "screw you" townie response than scum under pressure in the least bit, considering he wasn't under a lot of pressure and could've easily dismissed B&B or bought time by telling them to explain townreads first. Overall, fairly town.

DLG asking me if I still had an early townread on Arc before voting her was sort of strange. It was an early vote and he didn't really have any other suspects, so seeking my approval before making a vote, whether he has me as a townread or not, seems like excessive caution. The attack on ArcAngel lacked a lot as well; I don't mind attacks on someone for not scumhunting, but attacking her for spending no time to seek reasons behind why massclaim is a bad idea, or attacking her because she's posting nothing more than a compliment to the mod... that seems pretty opportunistic. His townreads disappearing on B&B and I seem like they are going away for trivial reasons, but worse is the Bulbazak scumread which comes out of nowhere that he never explains. CTD has a really good point about at the bottom of #957.

Nero Cain is trolling most of the time. Then he latched onto the third party thing, then he made fun of mollie, then he tried to bring as much attention to the situation as possible. It doesn't really seem like a particular strong scum strategy, but I sort of liked that he made an attempt to read the people he was pushing policy lynches on and is pushing a real life scumread instead of the people he generally finds scummy anyways. Town.

I seem to be pretty good at reading Bacde most days. He's probably town again.

He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.

Red Ryu's logic in voting me is... weird, but the rest of his posting isn't that bad. The way he's posting the case on me with the whole "he deliberately refused to even consider OS as town", frustration when arguing with Bulbazak, seems fairly genuine, especially since he continues to push me after Oversoul outed as a liar. I don't like how he's so completely and thoroughly tunneling on me in a way similar to Bacde; I would like him to give reads on other people as well.

Syryana read isn't so developed yet, although if I was forced to make a call, I'd lean town. I think that the waffling on me midgame after buddying me so hard was fairly genuine, though; it seems like a waste to butter me up so much and then stab me in the back three posts later if his aim was to get me on his side.

Desperado's early posting hurts a fair bit. Vaguely supports massclaim, sort of talks to B&B about the Nero = indy read everyone was talking about, small attack on Ryu. His first significant anything is his attack on DLG, which is a location I like, but then the whole accusation of "DLG isn't scumhunting and is being a hypocrite for expecting AA9 to scumhunt when he is not" sort of fell flat; he said DLG's townreads were surface and not good enough, but they were still townreads. It was still scumhunting, whether it was fake scumhunting or real scumhunting. Then, DLG posts a bunch while he's typing the case, Desp acknowledges as much, then posts 10 minutes later that "no, not good" while posting other things at the same time, which seems like he just waited a little while but never actually read any of DLG's posting unless he's a god of speedreading or some shit. His hop onto my wagon is awkward and doesn't have anything in his ISO hinting at it, so that will have to be explained later. Scumread.

Baby Spice has been lurking like hell, for one. Her excuse of "worrying about games that is endgaming" shows me that she's lurking and is conscious of it, but the rest of her play says that she's pretty okay with lurking hard as shit. I hate the "wall battle doesn't look like town v town but B&B is scum" bit, and she tosses out reads so randomly that I can't really see a thought process behind any of it. Lean scum, but not heavily.

I don't understand why it took Slandaar so long to start attacking me based on massclaim discrepancies, considering he brought it up early then sort of postured for a while, then jumped on my wagon when it started to gain momentum. His posting elsewhere has been just weak as shit; he's thrown out a few random reads, but he took FOREVER to vote for some reason and he's probably scum.

can you explain how you are using this as a scumtell (presumably?) on me when you just said this?

It was an explanation of the earlier post. He's not scumhunting that much, but he's definitely scumhunting.

Your final point about me either a) not reading or b) being a speed reader is just...weird. If I c/p'd all four of DLG's posts into Word, how many words do you think it would be? A few thousand? I can read multiple pages in ten minutes. Your assumption that I didn't read his posts because enough time did not elapse inbetween me saying I would and saying that they did nothing to alleviate my scumread on him just strikes me as a lazy attempt to discredit me. Have I given an indication elsewhere in this thread that I'm not reading it?

Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. I might be different, but I focus a hell of a lot closer on suspect's posting than everyone else, and reading DGB's post would take a little longer than that for me. I guess what I found strange was not that you read it that quickly, but that you read it that quickly AND decided you didn't see anything worth commenting on in that chunk.

One last thing...CTD proposed the mass claim that I'm scummy for "vaguely supporting" (what was vague about "I support a mass claim for all of the reasons Crash outlined in his big post about it", btw?) and his case on DLG is very similar to mine, yet you have him as town and me as scum. Can you explain that?

CTD didn't say that you vaguely supported massclaim, and his DLG case had absolutely nothing to do with why I found him town.

I question his current vote, not just because it's on someone I read as town and unlikely to lead anywhere, but also because there's a good wagon waiting to happen on his second choice, DLG.

I think that DLG and Desp are unlikely partners at this point, so I'd rather take care of the stronger scumread first.

and what is practically a billboard is his hedge on spice girl; he should be all over that shit cos those are the kind of things he tries to push for in a lynch. spice girl is doing the same thing that a player in another game did and he was all over her (KISS) and he was correct for being so. so it makes me think there is a spice girl/nacho association in there somehow, not sure what to make of it. especially since she beetlejuiced him into the thread. it almost read like a "hey buddy if you keep avoiding the thread you are going to get lynched so get in here!" call out.

You're right about me not picking up on the Baby Spice read harder than I should have been.

town nacho has yet to reach out to me and this is something that town nacho usually does even if it is to just say "hey mollie I am town now stfu and stop being difficult"

You're not being difficult this game.

Have you ever played with nacho before? He's not a useless player

There's a reason he's playing the way he's playing this game--he's scum

Useless is not the word for it.

Nacho, why did you post 5 analyses, and then wait another... 26-27 hours before posting the rest?

My laptop broke and I'm forced to play mafia in a public library. I got kicked out.

Desperado, I don't want you to repeat yourself; I want you to explain why you suddenly decided to push AA9 even though your vote likely wasn't going to generate a wagon and your suspicions on me were much more solid. "Your wagon wasn't going anywhere" doesn't explain why you decided to switch. Yes, you liked Syryana's AA9 meta case, but it didn't push AA9 up to your DLG suspicion level. Why did you want to push on her and show your support for THAT wagon, as opposed to voting DLG to show your support for him? Why did you switch back to me once you started to get votes? The number of votes on you doesn't change the fact that the wagon on me "wasn't going anywhere", does it?

And again, that's not why I'm townreading DLG. If you remember, YOU were the one that kept bringing CTD's DLG case up. Look at the exchange:

Spoiler: CTD's case on DLG

One last thing...CTD proposed the mass claim that I'm scummy for "vaguely supporting" (what was vague about "I support a mass claim for all of the reasons Crash outlined in his big post about it", btw?) and his case on DLG is very similar to mine, yet you have him as town and me as scum. Can you explain that?

CTD didn't say that you vaguely supported massclaim, and his DLG case had absolutely nothing to do with why I found him town.

Good thing I didn't say that CTD said that? Read the sentence again. I said that CTD proposed the mass claim that you said I was scummy for "vaguely supporting" the idea of even though I was not vague about my position whatsoever. And are you sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with it? Because you said that "He also easily found other things to look at and didn't stall in coming up with scumreads and townreads," and I'm pretty sure his case on DLG falls into that category. If his case on DLG was good enough to prove to you that he was doing other things and coming up with scumreads, and it was very similar to mine, why is he a townread and me a scumread?

It wasn't his case on DLG alone. He's pushed DLG in a way that's better than the way you pushed it. Reads are much more than one case. Stop asking these questions because they are scummy as hell.

And I wasn't making I point, I was being sarcastic because I knew that Nacho had just lied. CTD's case on DLG absolutely played into Nacho's townread on him (as I pointed out), which leads me to believe that he was just saying that in response to my question to discredit it from the start (that point is invalid because it isn't even relevant!) Except it was relevant, so now he has to switch to "CTD's push on his DLG case was better than yours," which was not his original assertion. Do you get it? He lied and got caught, so I pointed it out cheekily.

You took one of the last two sentences that are not the essence of the case at all. You also took what was a very vague statement and railroaded it into "CTD's case on DLG", which, again, was not what I said.

You tried to deflect my scumread on you by comparing yourself to CTD and his case on DLG. I said, no, that wasn't why I found CTD town. You pointed to a vague sentence that included all of CTD's cases (doesn't imply that I found one case more convincing than the other, doesn't imply that it's a significant part), and I pointed out that his case on DLG was different & better than yours, and that my read on CTD wasn't solely based on that one case on DLG. You then go onto "CAUGHT YOU LYING CAUGHT YOU LYING" even though that the original assertion was that it didn't make sense I had different reads on you and CTD even though you both had similar cases on DLG, and I pointed out that it doesn't really have anything to do with my read on CTD. Yes, it's a piece of the read, but not a significant one. Just like you were focusing pretty much exclusively on me before you vote AA9. Not absolutely 100% focusing on me, but pretty close.

He's scummy for calling me useless all game, but simultaneously being actually useless himself.

Thor is town. Him I can read.

This is strange as fuck. I finally went through their games together, and there's like 1 where there's both town and have mutual townreads; Baby Spice doesn't really show her prowess to read Thor anywhere then I can find.

Page 19 and reading.

Perpetual catchup, never reads shit but always lies and says she does.

Hmm.

I decided to check Nacho's posting history just to see what was happening, and spotted him browsing this forum.

Make of that what you will.

Potshot when I'm gone for literally two days.

I think I've mis-read Thor once in the last two years, a current game he replaced into.

You've played 4 games together.

Nacho's spent a lot of the game with a decent vote count. Nacho does appear to be doing what Bacde accuses him of, ignoring Bacde and defending against others. Could be because Bacde is tunneling like he's part of the great escape, and pushing that as a defense is better than actually defending.

original suspicion of me is because of the Bacde case she "doesn't care about" later.

Didn't get my iso read done though. Nanna nap won out

Last we hear of the mystical ISO read.

Vote Nacho

Since Bc asked so nicely.

this doesn't come when Bacde said he was bussing me.
this came when Bacde called me out for not being happy with my reads and telling him to follow them when he died.
the idea that BS saw Bacde's bus post was the reason the BS is voting me is bullshit

Desperado,
why don't you come to your senses.
You've been sitting on fences
for so long now

Seriously thought, you've hardly mentioned him nor what you find scummy about him.

speaking of which, who dances around the Desperado lynch like a ballerina?
she's not scary spice.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26373

Just read page one.

Zoidberg wasn't scum?

thank you for existing

Troll lol lol lol lol.


But the person Bc was voting at the time, from two or three posts above, was.

I don't know why the fuck it matters who he votes before he says he's bussing everyone, but the fact that she latches onto THIS and ignores bacde making the bussing claim as town is complete and fucking bullshit. She'd notice in the other game that Bacde didn't go on a gigantic bussing spree and push his partners like he's pushing me here
then i found bacde making the bussing joke in another game
does she pay attention to it?
nope

I found that previous instance quite a while ago but I was hoping your lynch would go through and when you flipped scum I could bring it up D2 and get your buddy more easily. Since it looks like that lynch is not going to happen, I mentioned it.

BS thinks she found me and a partner
she doesn't bring it up the next day so she could get my partner more easily?
hahahaha fuck that noise

6. This is also true. Except you should add 'with Mollie, as usual, twisting reality - and then claiming someone else is twisting reality.' Like we've been doing.

Why do scum lie? Because they can get away with it?

Seriously how is nacho capable of missing my case on thezmon?

Because you can be very mean to me sometimes and my feelings are very hurt.

It's gut at the moment, he feels like he's legit working, not fake working.

How? What posts look the happiest to you?

She lies about things she's done to avoid explaining them and fakes emotional breakdowns as town?
Links to any examples?

That's not at all what I work with because I form my reads differently. Mollie-scum v Nacho town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25914
Mollie-sympathetic to scum third party v Nacho town:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27515

Mollie town w/Nacho scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4879542

Mollie disinterested town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4691507

Intensely paranoid Mollie:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4705343

And whereas I can't peg the head of Majiffy, I sure as hell can see and read scum fferyllt. Sometimes oh yeah she does refuse to explain emotional breakdowns, see Posh Mafia (the last one) when she gets insanely paranoid of me. She was like "yeah, never gonna get you lynched, we're done ".
But really, I want you to look at the difference between her scumgame and her towngame. And if you don't see it, I'm actually just going to lynch you because jesus fucking christ. Lying, refusing to explain emotional breakdowns, that's different in an audio game. My face to face game is not at all like these beautiful written words; my metas are not reflections.
So sell me that what you know of her is better than what I know of her. What happened in Mainstream Mafia? Did Mollie lie a lot? Was she aggressive as fuck? Did she take a hard lead as a cult leader? Or did Majiffy shut her up and control the game himself. You failed to accept Majiffy's reachouts, why?

don't really have a legit town read on you.
I have a 'I don't think his bad play is proof he's scum' read on you.
But I'm willing to see the links you'll show me.

Welp if I'm good enough to be left alive for another day you'll work with me so we can avoid our retard fights in the future.

Yeah I can see that. What is the your #1 reason for AKscum?

the she feels more passive than usual even though we should've touched bases, we should've been getting scum together by now
her reads are janky as fuck; her reads on me and oversoul were fairly strange and she backed off, jumped on at a WEIRD time

All of them? cuz that's alot of explaining

Explain the 5 you were proudest of getting.

How many times have I said this now?

Probably something like 20 times and I didn't really like any of them.

I also want to chime in about the Mollie slot. Mollie gets constantly read as scum and Jiffy knows it. In this game (link below) Ma Jiffy put a leash on Mollie to avoid suspicion. Bacde already brought up the fact that they could be switching their meta around to fool us.

that's not how meta works nero

I didn't realize that you were talking about my case on nacho, which is understandable that you don't want to follow it

Vote: thezmon

So why was it not scummy on days 1 and 2? Why was my attack on Rena scummy but you didn't question any of the other players that followed me onto Rena?

It wasn't as scummy on Day 1 and Day 2 because I had other people in mind and I liked you from our exchange about mollie earlier. Now, I'm not so sure. I questioned you because I found your trail onto Rena suspect; I didn't pay attention to the others.

I'm relatively certain that I wasn't. Though I did find it scummy when he claimed he was way back on page 3. That looked like some hardcore stalling.

Seems pretty trutful to me considering he ended up replacing out not too long after.

IDK, I think all three of you are scummy. This whole "guess who my buddies are" is just cheeky scum trying to squirm out of a lynch.

It's me trying to figure out your thought process.

Vote: Nacho

Why are you totally ignoring my request?

I didn't. I'm not necessarily completely complying with it, but I didn't ignore it.

Nacho, why don't you want to lynch AK anymore?

They seem town to me.

In all seriousness though I tried to be useful about 10-15 pages back with some wagon analysis, and that is when everyone jumped on me.

So instead of taking it as "we see the content you're producing and we don't really like it" you took it as "stop producing content"? Come on now.

I am also under the impression that he is a better player than this.

This is one of those things that always lead down bad bad roads. He might be a better player than you expect even though you don't agree with his reasoning, and he might be completely on track. On the other hand, he might not be used to this and it's frying his scumdar, OR you might be holding him up to unrealistic explanations. I've never really listened to this kind of reasoning unless people have had personal experience with the person before saying something like this.

No, never mind. Peregrine is town

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Why is this?

UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.

Mollie, I didn't like this at all.

I just don't buy that he's a vig.

Do you think that he's a serial killer? Otherwise, there's no reason you should vote him today.

[Nachomamma8]

WHAT THE FUCK

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: SLANDAAR

what is with this town and its shit wagons

[Nachomamma8]

I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS

[Nachomamma8]

BULBAZAK HAS BEEN TOWN FOR THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME

[Nachomamma8]

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town

Gosh, it sounds like he's not totally sure about your alignment at all.

HE ALSO CALLED ME SCUM AT THE LAST MINUTE
PARANOIA

[Nachomamma8]

YOU ARE A BALL OF PARANOIA, MOLLIE
how can you attack someone else who does it?

[Nachomamma8]

^^ F

i don't believe you unless it's a lowercase f.

[Nachomamma8]

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town

Gosh, it sounds like he's not totally sure about your alignment at all.

which would be the first time he has ever reconsidered his read on us. I am holding him to it.

when he's about to die.

[Nachomamma8]

has had us down as scum all game and now within minutes of his lynch he starts entertaining the idea that we are town? cos saying, "I will look into rena if I live" is treating us as town

Gosh, it sounds like he's not totally sure about your alignment at all.

which would be the first time he has ever reconsidered his read on us. I am holding him to it.

when he's about to die.

when he no longer has the chance to reanalyze.

[Nachomamma8]

FFERY MOLLIE IS CALLING BULBAZAK TOWN
FIX IT

[Nachomamma8]

ISN'T*

[Nachomamma8]

of course it's not a scumlynch
those wagons were horrible

[Nachomamma8]

mollie if you could stop ignoring me for five minutes, it would be

fantastic

.

[Nachomamma8]

When and why did this happen?

[Nachomamma8]

nacho if slaandy flips town and bulba is scum I am going to lord it over you forever

and when both are town nothing will happen

[Nachomamma8]

of course it's not a scumlynch
those wagons were horrible

Maybe you should have been around to do something about it

of course it's not a scumlynch
those wagons were horrible

Too bad you weren't around to try and work something else out.

- f

i thought you guys could do one thing
one thing

[Nachomamma8]

beep beep boop you'll see me in the morning

[Nachomamma8]

oh right no prod dodge

Vote: PeregrineV

[Nachomamma8]

What especially helped was her paranoid reaction to Nacho upon replacing in, which I have a hard time seeing scum faking.

I agree with this.

This is, of course, a theory filled with holes, but it deserves at least some consideration.

Main theories are that you're scum or that you were blocked because mafia wanted to mislynch you/didn't want to risk you getting your shot off.

Is this really the best either of you can come up with?

At least I put a vote down, amirite?

Mara! What are you thinking for today?

[Nachomamma8]

and I am very unhappy with nacho

what now

I am confused to why he's voting you though, it doesn't make sense to me.

doesn't make any sort of sense to me either. I'm pretty excited for his reasoning.

[Nachomamma8]

Mollie I think it's a bad read to expect someone to think like you. Your attacks on Bulb aren't looking to get into his head at all.

Ffery, I would like to seriously connect. I don't think we've made an effort lately but it sort of needs to be done.

[Nachomamma8]

Mollie I think it's a bad read to expect someone to think like you. Your attacks on Bulb aren't looking to get into his head at all.

Ffery, I would like to seriously connect. I don't think we've made an effort lately but it sort of needs to be done.

I did kinda quit making an effort, yes. What is on the agenda?

another one of those "everyone" projects, probably.

It's just all to incredibly forced, the walls, the buzzwords, and the painfully forced reasoning. It just isn't real it's scum.

give me examples of all of this.
I see walls everywhere, Bulbazak is a pretty big fan of buzzwords, so fuck this reasoning. It's lazy and it's hopping on yet another wagon and it's not even in the normal casual way.

Which means it's exceedingly unlikely that another scum roleblock was around to block Rena in the first place.

Seems pretty unlikely to me as well.

He's got a point.

Oh look, Bacde quotes that you completely ignored when they were actually around.

Nacho quoting Nacho as the reason to tunnel me.

That was my rebuttal to you calling me useless. The assertion that I'm tunneling you is complete and absolute bullshit, considering the Bulbazak-Nero shitshow that's happening right underneath your nose. Was there a reason you ignored that...?

Voting for a town read in a game that does not require a majority lynch.

When one town read is much stronger than the other, yes I'm going to vote the counterwagon.

His point was that he has led the push hard on thez. He saw something that I didn't see, and thez flipped scum. So if he's seeing it again, then he's right, listen to him.

So your point is that Bacde was right on Thez and so Bacde is right on me. Where was this BEFORE I started pushing you?

Nacho is town and your case is bad and, consequently, unconvincing.

Then, in simple terms, why is he town?

You still haven't even begun to explain why I'm scum.

My Nacho paranoia is heightening again. I really want to see his response to the accusations brought against him.

Response to WHAT accusations?

[Nachomamma8]

Peregrine, my original accusation on you was for "active lurking" as I know you have a tendency to do as we discovered in Dark Souls. There's the addition of that hard OMGUS (which is not a scumtell usually, but again, Dark Souls and I know you are a better player than that) where you began to suspect me immediately after I started pushing on you and not a moment before (ThAd's input on when Peregrine started pushing for me to die would be great), but in thread you started suspecting me after I started pushing you, which is pretty much a mirror to that beautiful, wonderful Dark Souls. I don't like you picking up on Bacde's push of me when it suits you because you ignored that COMPLETELY before (seriously, why are you just picking up on this now?), and I think your case on me is shallow as fuck and made more out of a place of necessity as opposed to "oh hey, Nacho is actually scum" based on it being composed of "Nacho has been useless" which is obviously wrong, sheeping off a Bacde case that you ignored before, and then a couple things from my case on you and nothing in the pages and pages I've produced before then.

[Nachomamma8]

Rena's probably scum at this point.

So basically, I now think it's more likely that Bulbazak could have been protected by the JK, which makes it possible and even likely that you were blocked. So no more vote.

It wasn't likely that Bulbazak would've been shot during the night by scum, so doesn't really make sense for him to protect him from mafia. It ALSO doesn't really make sense for him to protect from ThAd's vig kill when he hadn't really engaged ThAd that much during the day meaning that he wasn't INCREDIBLY DISSATISFIED with ThAd's options to the point where he would block him to protect townreads. So this is a bit of a stretch and it's more likely that ThAd got mafia roleblocked and Rena is lying lying lying.

[Nachomamma8]

seanald's been playing the lazy opportunism game.
i don't like his buddying up to Bacde after reading Vengeball.
i'm very sorry for not hopping on that wagon when the chance was given to me.

[Nachomamma8]

"that whole case made against you".
Summarize it, 10 minutes. Go.

[Nachomamma8]

My read changed on you because two PRs were blocked during the night and I'm more likely to believe ThAd with the vigilante claim as opposed to your watcher claim since you've let me out in the dust and my town read's gotten a bit stale.

[Nachomamma8]

Mac | thezmon221:

Red Ryu

| fuzzybutternut->

Oversoul

thezmon221

DLG | PeregrineV: ArcAngel9 | Unvote->

Oversoul

Nachomamma8->Seanald

EddieFenix:

BeautyAndTheBeast->Bulbazak->Nachomamma8->Unvote->

Oversoul

thezmon221

Thor665:

Red Ryu

->BeautyAndTheBeast->

Red Ryu

Haylen->Amethyst Kitty

Red Ryu:

Nachomamma8->penguin_alien (Baby Spice)->Nachomamma8->Desperado->

Oversoul

Syryana:

Red Ryu

->ArcAngel9->Desperado->Baby Spice->Desperado->

Oversoul

Oversoul:

Red Ryu

->Nachomamma8->fuzzybutternut->Nachomamma8->Desperado
Seanald: Nachomamma8 Cephrir->

thezmon221

Rena->Cephrir->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote
ActionDan Hanzo_5 ThAdmiral: Desperado

thezmon221

Nachomamma8->Seanald
fuzzybutternut | Haylen:

Oversoul

->Cephrir->Bulbazak->Om the Desroyer | Unvote->

Oversoul

->Unvote Bacde Bacde->Unvote

Kublai Khan:

BeautyAndTheBeast->

Red Ryu

->

Oversoul

->Baby Spice->

Oversoul

thezmon221

Bacde->Amethyst Kitty

ArcAngel9:

Red Ryu

->Desperado Desperado Cephrir->Amethyst Kitty->Desperado->Seanald

Short VCH's. Not particularly interested in scum votes or town votes, but patterns. Thez was a lurky scum slot, but his main focus was Oversoul wagon. Pretty clear opportunism, no strange bits. Not really too much to pick up on here; blatant scum votecount and no one quite looks the same. Seanald's is definitely the closest, though: when he was around, he voted on the largest wagon to hop onto me. Only irregularity in this pattern comes with Cephrir votes, which happen when they are a counterwagon to thez and a counterwagon to ThAd, but the choice of Cephrir over thez was kind of a crazy one whereas the choice of Cephrir over ThAd, AK wasn't as big of a deal because the wagons were only 3 man wagons.

Red Ryu tunneled on me and then devolved into opportunism with the penguin, desp, oversoul votes, which again reminds me more of Seanald than anyone else, but not anyone else in particular.

Peregrine's VCH looks scummy because it shows those hints of opportunism Thez showed in abundance. Peregrine's replace in Oversoul vote doesn't really look excellent, and riding the Seanald wave was pretty lazy. His vote on me was similar to Seanald's Cephrir because he didn't really hop on when it was controversial even though it was the top choice; his recent vote on me defies that, but I'm starting to think that was for meta reasons.

ThAd's VCH lacks the initial opportunism Peregrine's does, has a thez vote, shares a Seanald vote. Extremely similar, in other words.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't remember Dark Souls except it had good flavor and cool pictures, and I think I was lynched the 2nd or 3rd day.

You were lynched the 2nd day. First there was a lot of active lurking, then VP called you out, then I stubbornly defended you because you got active and engaged and were attacking VPB, then we lynched you.

When Bcade first mentioned it, I gave it thought, but I still liked the early wagon analysis you did.

That still doesn't mention why you didn't bring it up before or why the early wagon analysis that I'm not really sure I ever did doesn't matter now.

However, Desp's response to my case made me reread you for a third time. Now, I'll grudgingly admit your probably town, but I still don't like the lack of scumreads from you considering the number that has to be left.

And now I'm interested in reasons.

[Nachomamma8]

What reasons?

Reasons you're reading me as town from your reread.

[Nachomamma8]

I was burned yesterday after being so sure that Slandaar would flip scum. I'm not too keen to stick my hand back in the fire today. Also, between the two, Nero is the more social threat, while all Seanald does is lurk, sheep, and occasionally stir the pot.

I think people are more willing to stand up for Nero than they are for Seanald, though. Does that change your mind at all?

[Nachomamma8]

but if you can get a Seanald wagon going, I'll gladly switch. Which reminds me...

What do you think of Rena/Peregrine?

[Nachomamma8]

Given the Ninja flip, I see no reason to doubt Rena's claim. As for PV, I somewhat understand the case, but I don't really buy there being scum in the same neighborhood as a vig. If you can provide reasons why that would be the case in this game, I'll listen and consider your PV case, but until then, I think he's probably town.

Ninja means that Rena's power is more likely to be true but it has nothing to do with her alignment. It also means tracker possibility.
I talked about vig in a neighborhood with a vig a while ago. What did you think of that reasoning?

[Nachomamma8]

I just have a hard time seeing scum from one team in a neighborhood with a vig due to balance issues, since that is essentially giving one team access to a second kill via manipulation. Unless you have a counter argument that explains how it could be balanced, then I have to consider PV to be likely town.

If they successfully manipulate. Vig has two chances to catch them out before they can do that: in thread and in QT.

[Nachomamma8]

I just have a hard time seeing scum from one team in a neighborhood with a vig due to balance issues, since that is essentially giving one team access to a second kill via manipulation. Unless you have a counter argument that explains how it could be balanced, then I have to consider PV to be likely town.

If they successfully manipulate. Vig has two chances to catch them out before they can do that: in thread and in QT.

What about the other team?

maybe in a neighborhood with a PR
maybe not in such a high risk neighborhood

[Nachomamma8]

Peregrine, my original accusation on you was for "active lurking" as I know you have a tendency to do as we discovered in Dark Souls. There's the addition of that hard OMGUS (which is not a scumtell usually, but again, Dark Souls and I know you are a better player than that) where you began to suspect me immediately after I started pushing on you and not a moment before (ThAd's input on when Peregrine started pushing for me to die would be great), but in thread you started suspecting me after I started pushing you, which is pretty much a mirror to that beautiful, wonderful Dark Souls. I don't like you picking up on Bacde's push of me when it suits you because you ignored that COMPLETELY before (seriously, why are you just picking up on this now?), and I think your case on me is shallow as fuck and made more out of a place of necessity as opposed to "oh hey, Nacho is actually scum" based on it being composed of "Nacho has been useless" which is obviously wrong, sheeping off a Bacde case that you ignored before, and then a couple things from my case on you and nothing in the pages and pages I've produced before then.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, how strong is your PV scumread on a scale of MasterMew to RayFrost?

Ask me after his exchange with ff is finished.

[Nachomamma8]

I think that Nero is town at the moment, but i haven't dived into your recent spat with him because it's getting pretty fucking ridiculous. Will do that when i get computer access again.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, you around?

I am now.

[Nachomamma8]

Do you have meta to the effect that peregrine acts dumb as a post as town when someone puts a vote on him?

Peregrine's frustrated me beyond frustration as town before, so unfortunately yes.

@Nacho: You owe me some answers.

I've given you some answers.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Rena

[Nachomamma8]

Although I can answer that my PV scumread is in between MM and RayFrost, leaning more towards an MM scumread.

[Nachomamma8]

Since when is lurking scum more dangerous to the town than scum that makes waves? Nero can do more damage with his influence than Seanald can, because all Seanald is doing is following others and staying in the shadows. Lurking scum can be countered effectively if identified. Scum such as Nero is more difficult to take care of, because they act like an infection in the entire organism.

Posts like this are far more likely to be coming from town than scum. Town wants to take out the big threats as opposed to the small fries usually because it's easier to have stronger conviction on active players than it is on less active players (more to go on v less to go on). I understand when he says that he's not willing to jump back into neighborhoods again today, and I don't see the scum motivation in not wanting to jump back into neighborhoods again. When using scum is in a certain group of players, it's pretty fucking easy to use that as extra ammunition for your scumreads (not only is X scummy, but he was on the lynchwagon yesterday!) and sort of chainlynch through the group. Bulba wanting to back away from that makes sense. Bulba backing away from that to protect Seanald??? Doesn't really make sense. Bulba's push on Seanald, if they were scum together, shows that he doesn't give a shit about bussing him. Why does he suddenly want to protect him now? Oh wait. There isn't a real reason for that.

[Nachomamma8]

"Scum want to keep me around as long as possible."

read: scum want to keep me around as long as possible because i'm mislynchable and keep lynching town.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, what do you think about the fact that I was the counterwagon of Nero and Seanald yesterday? And why do you disagree about the Nero scum read? I thought you were for it yesterday.

I don't care about counterwagons in general. I care even less about counterwagons in multiball.
I was for it yesterday, I'm not for it today because I'm letting people who can read him better than I handle it.

[Nachomamma8]

I have literally no idea why Rena is not being instantly lynched at the moment, though. ThAd was blocked and Rena was blocked last night. ThAd's power is easily confirmable once he actually uses it (AKA he's not going to live if he keeps getting blocked OR Rena flips town), Rena's power is not. There's absolutely no reason for KK to protect Bulbazak last night, no reason for him to be antitown as fuck and block ThAd. Meaning Rena is lying about being blocked and needs to be lynched pretty badly.

[Nachomamma8]

Speaking of counterwagons, I think it speaks volumes that it's been absolutely fucking impossible to lynch Rena this game.

Scum should be chomping at the bit to lynch a claimed watcher given the chance, and they aren't.

don't talk about counterwagons, ty

[Nachomamma8]

I do agree with the rest of your points about him. I think even if Bulba flips town, we would learn a lot for tomorrow. Vote Bulba

ftr, Rena was just trying to sheep the case onto me in the post she made right before this one, but couldn't find it in time.

[Nachomamma8]

No.

[Nachomamma8]

Unless you want to say that both teams have Ninjas? Because Watcher is a ridiculously powerful role. In the hands of scum facing an opposing team, they can either hunt the other scumteam with the watcher or look for power roles. In the hands of town, watcher has TWO chances to catch scum's nightkill and nab a free scum while accidentally confirming town power roles, meaning that it's a bit overpowered.

[Nachomamma8]

CTD, what are your reads?

[Nachomamma8]

mafia doc on Bulba, ThAd lying about his target, etc.

i don't really think mafia doc would protect bulba-town and i think bulba is town.
i don't think ThAd is lying about his target.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho suggests that ThAd should be lynched if he keeps getting blocked, but his entire point here is that ThAd was blocked and Rena was not, so there should be no reason to assume that he won't be blocked in the future (unless Rena flips roleblocker herself). If we lynch Rena and she flips town, we actually make it easier for scum to block ThAd because they have one PR less to juggle. Nacho also suggests that ThAd should be lynched if Rena flips town, which is convenient as fuck if my suspicions are true that scum blocked Rena last night.

Any power role should be lynched if they "keep getting blocked". You understand the reasoning for that, don't you? I also believe that Rena and ThAd didn't just happen to both get blocked last night because that doesn't make any sense at all; you can say "oh, maybe KK protected Bulbazak or mafia doc protected Bulbazak" but I believe that those situations are unlikely; I don't think that KK would target Rena or Bulbazak or ThAd last night, and I find it unlikely that there is an additional blocking role to one scum roleblocker, and I don't find it likely that scumdoc would be targetting bulbazak over their own buddies (since I find it highly unlikely bulbazak is scum) when there is a vig and an opposing scumteam to worry about.

[Nachomamma8]

not if they have a watcher power

[Nachomamma8]

or to hunt the other team
or to look for power roles

[Nachomamma8]

But you think ThAd should be lynched if he keeps getting blocked.

Yes. If ThAd doesn't manage to get off his shot off by the time we're getting down to the wire, he should probably be lynched. I don't think he'd be lying about his target as town.

[Nachomamma8]

Why do you find Rena town?

[Nachomamma8]

Talk me through it again why you don't find it feasible that KK targeted Bulba, a claimed VT and a strong town read for him (the two primary factors in JK targeting). Keep in mind that there was in fact an attempt to kill him.

Because it would be unlikely that scum would shoot him and there's no reason he would attempt to protect Bulba against ThAd while ThAd was trying to prove himself.

[Nachomamma8]

If we have another night where both ThAd and Rena fail to produce results, then we can talk.

Would be happy with saving Rena for another day. Unfortunately, Rena is the only not-bad lynch with support right now and people have proven themselves to move very, very slowly in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

PV. Seanald.

[Nachomamma8]

CTD also no longer makes me happy like he used to.

[Nachomamma8]

yeah i'm sorry babe.
don't get mad at me and lynch a townie for no reason because of your anger.

[Nachomamma8]

What's your theory here exactly? Rena is a watcher who's scumbuddies with a roleblocker who targetted ThAd, and she claims to have targeted him as well with no result?

Rena's redscum and a watcher, probably NOT scumbuddies with roleblocker. She found a juicy power role to kill last night, didn't want to claim no result on someone random because that's risky, didn't want to claim actual result because that would mean that her team couldn't kill that juicy power role during the night.

[Nachomamma8]

I thought fuzzy's play was consistent with having a power role and reasonable enough for a player who seemed to be under time constraints/unable to keep up with the game.

You'll find that fuzzy's play is this regardless of his alignment.

[Nachomamma8]

To my knowledge, Rena hasn't done anything heinous either (except under-contribute, which in her case is more likely the result of her never really getting into the game but sticking around because she drew a PR, than of her being scum, in my opinion).

You don't have a problem with her saying that she was getting suspicious of me because of the cases against me and then being completely unable to come close to summarizing any of the cases against me?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, explain your Bulba town read, please. All I remember you saying is that "HE HAS BEEN TOWN ALL GAME" at the end of yesterday, and while I thought he was town in the beginning as well, a couple of things have happened in the mean time.

I've addressed some of your recent concerns. You haven't commented on that; would you like to start there?

[Nachomamma8]

@ Italics: Perhaps, but I don't think Nero has nearly the amount of cache that Bulb is giving him credit for here.

He doesn't. That doesn't really matter much, though.

@ Bold: The scum motivation for not wanting to jump back into the neighborhoods is that scumBulb can only mislynch there so many times without incriminating a teammate.

If he has a scummate in the neighborhoods, then the other team probably does there aswell. And if he's afraid of incriminating them, then I don't think he would be so ready to jump into the whole "there are scum in the neighborhoods" rant in the first place. Do you?

Yeah, it makes sense for scumBulb. Why is townBulb shying away from following through with his neighborhood spec? Why was he so gung ho to get a neighborhood flip if he was going to withdraw from that line of thought after he got it?

I don't think he figured he was going to withdraw from that line of thought after he got it before he started lynching.

[Nachomamma8]

Please rephrase the underlined because I can't make sense of it.

Looking for scum in a group that is highly necessary to have scum but is not guaranteed to have scum mean that your reads of players in that group are all a little scummier. The scummy ones in that group will seem incredibly scummy, the town ones in that group will seem town but not town enough, especially when mislynches pile up. It's sometimes better to take a step back from groups like that when you mislynch from them.

I don't understand at all his unwillingness to jump back into neighborhoods today, he claims to have a strong read on Seanald independent from his neighborhood status and he's already playing the "woe is me, I'm useless and a mislynch waiting to happen" card, which makes it completely counter-intuitive for him not to try to validate his beliefs wrt to the neighborhoods. It's not like he has much to lose in his purported state of mind.

He is afraid of the Nero-scum threat. A bit irrationally sure, but he's still afraid of it. It also makes sense for him to be a mislynch waiting to be happen voting his strongest scumread as he goes down; that's what he did in Voided's Nightless and I wouldn't really expect any different here.

I believe that Bulba and Nero came into today with a firm plan to crossbus for town-cred. They both claimed VT and have no other real means to do so except through scum-hunting success. Voting Seanald (buddy or not) doesn't fit the narrative.

[Nachomamma8]

PV you wanna vote Rena?

[Nachomamma8]

Gut.

[Nachomamma8]

My read changed on you because two PRs were blocked during the night and I'm more likely to believe ThAd with the vigilante claim as opposed to your watcher claim since you've let me out in the dust and my town read's gotten a bit stale.

@nero.

[Nachomamma8]

Gut.

Didn't you want to wait a day on Rena?

I do, but there is more support for Rena and I'm more interested in making sure scum is lynched over people like Bulbazak.

[Nachomamma8]

Bulbazak why the fuck are you still voting Nero Cain?

[Nachomamma8]

P-edit: Because he's scum, and I'm not quite convinced about anything you've said.

The only person who is convinced on your Nero case and is willing to follow it at the moment is CTD, and he thinks you're bussing him. Doesn't that tell you it's about time to switch gears?

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: Do you honestly think that rolecop was the only investigative role that we had?

do you believe all of our investigative roles have been outed?

[Nachomamma8]

but hey
that still doesn't answer my question of why are you pushing on Nero when no one is pushing it with you and no one has been for a very long time?

[Nachomamma8]

bc he thinks Rena is our other investigative role

[Nachomamma8]

I think you're still voting Cephrir, Peregrine. Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Remind me what you're talking about when you say "pressure point post".

[Nachomamma8]

I don't see any other point to this then "hey, I'm smug as scum, Nero can be too!!!"

I don't either. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

[Nachomamma8]

I think you're still voting Cephrir, Peregrine. Why?

I have a somewhat scum read on him, and he was an ArcAngel choice for scum which she pushed day 3.

That's not a wagon that's going to go through and that's not a read you seem to care too much about. Got anything better?

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, and I'm angry that Nacho reads him as scum but was nowhere to be found yesterday when I was trying to lynch him.

and here we are with another opportunity to lynch him and instead you're trying to lynch bulbazak.
why not let me make up for my mistakes and lynch him now?

[Nachomamma8]

Is any wagon besides Bulba going to go through? We have 8 days and spending it hanging on Bulba and doing nothing else doesn't make sense.

I have pretty high hopes in this Rena wagon.
Me-ffery-ThAd-Cephrir means it's halfway there already and I'm fairly sure it won't be impossibly difficult to get 4 more.

I don't think Cephrir is scum.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll miss him and I'm not really worried about removing distractions, to be honest.

[Nachomamma8]

That's generally a very, very bad sign. I'll see where

or a great fucking sign

[Nachomamma8]

PV is not a read that I could lynch the hell out of and feel completely confident he will flip scum, but he is a fairly strong read.

[Nachomamma8]

What about CTD do you not like Nacho? I still think he's town, though I don't think he's been as transparently genuine as he was earlier on in the game.

It's the loss of being transparently genuine that hurts me the most.

I also do know that genuine reads as scum isn't impossible, though is DLG the type of person to do that kind of thing?

In multiball? Hell yes.

also, how town do you think Bulb is?

I have alot of mixed feelings regarding him

I have him as a 10 in towniness currently.

Serious question: How isn't Bulba hammered already?

scum buddies don wanna bus dude.

why is bulbazak red scum?