NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[mastin2]

Seventy-Eighth Votecount

:

(Eleventh Votecount of Day Three,

AKA, the "Ohheyvotecount" votecount.

)

Rena - 3 (Cephrir, Seanald, Human Destroyer)

Bacde - 3 (Kublai Khan, Bulbazak,Rena)

ThAdmiral - 2 (Desperado, Bacde)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Nero Cain)
Cephrir - 1 (ArcAngel9)
Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Desperado - 1 (Slandaar)

Not Voting - 6 (CrashTextDummie, PeregrineV, penguin_alien, ThAdmiral, Amethyst Kitty, ffullisade)

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Monday, July 1st, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-01 12:30:00).

Bulbazak is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
Haylen is V/LA until Sunday, Jun 16th.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.

Spoiler: Changes from last votecount

Rena - 3 (Cephrir, Seanald,

Desperado

, Human Destroyer)
Bacde - 3 (Kublai Khan, Bulbazak, Rena)
Cephrir - 1 (ArcAngel9)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (

Bacde

, Nero Cain)
Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Desperado - 1 (Slandaar)
ThAdmiral - 2 (

Desperado

,

Bacde(2)

)

Not Voting - 6 (CrashTextDummie, PeregrineV, penguin_alien, ThAdmiral, Amethyst Kitty, ffullisade,

Bacde(1)

)

Last votecount was page 147, post 3650.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History D3

CrashTextDummie:
Cephrir: Rena
Nachomamma8: ThAdmiral->Nero Cain->PeregrineV->Slandaar->Amethyst Kitty
PeregrineV:
Nero Cain: Rena->Nachomamma8
Bacde: Nachomamma8->Rena->Nachomamma8->Unvote->ThAdmiral
Bulbazak: ffullisade->Bacde
Desperado: ThAdmiral->Rena->ThAdmiral
penguin_alien:
Slandaar: Amethyst Kitty->Rena->Desperado
Seanald: Rena
ThAdmiral:
Rena: Bacde
Kublai Khan: Bacde
Amethyst Kitty:
ffullisade: Rena->Unvote

Om the Destroyer

Human Destroyer: Rena
ArcAngel9: Cephrir

Spoiler: Votecount History D3

On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 02:30p,

Bacde

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 3367.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 02:40p,

Nachomamma8

votes

ThAdmiral

in post 3375.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 05:23p,

Nero Cain

votes

Rena

in post 3385.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 06:01p,

Nachomamma8

votes

Nero Cain

in post 3388.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 11:14p,

Kublai Khan

votes

Bacde

in post 3397.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 04:18a,

Slandaar

votes

Amethyst Kitty

in post 3406.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 08:55a,

Desperado

votes

ThAdmiral

in post 3417.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 12:32p,

Bubazak

votes

ffullisade

in post 3432.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 03:04p,

ArcAngel9

votes

Cephrir

in post 3444.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 06:46p,

ffullisade

votes

Rena

in post 3462.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 09:08p,

Seanald

votes

Rena

in post 3467.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 11:07a,

Desperado

votes

Rena

in post 3489.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 12:41p,

Bacde

votes

Rena

in post 3522.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 01:45p,

Slandaar

votes

Rena

in post 3528.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 02:15p,

Bulbazak

unvotes

ffullisade

and votes

Bacde

in post 3537.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 02:42p,

ffullisade

unvotes

Rena

in post 3543.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:04p,

Bacde

unvotes

Rena

and votes

Nachomamma8

in post 3548.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:48p,

Nachomamma8

votes

PeregrineV

in post 3584.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:49p,

Nachomamma8

votes

Slandaar

in post 3585.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:50p,

Nachomamma8

votes

Amethyst Kitty

in post 3586.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 06:07p,

Nero Cain

votes

Nachomamma8

in post 3623.
On Thu, Jun 6/13/13 @ 03:49a,

Slandaar

votes

Desperado

in post 3625.
On Thu, Jun 6/13/13 @ 10:02a,

Human Destroyer

votes

Rena

in post 3633.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 10:06a,

Bacde

unvotes

Nachomamma8

in post 3671.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 11:16a,

Desperado

unvotes

Rena

and votes

ThAdmiral

in post 3672.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 11:30a,

Bacde

votes

ThAdmiral

in post 3673.

[Bacde]

UGH WE ARE IN A PICKLE YET AGAIN

CAN'T WE ALL JUST AGREE TO LYNCH SOMEBODY

[Bacde]

SOMEBODY IMPLY THAT I AM MAFIA AND THEN DENY IT LATER ON PLEASE

[Slandaar]

Thor dumb town, posts to actionDan make this more apparent.

If you're reading someone as Town, why are you working so hard to alienate that player?
Why, if you're reading someone as Town, are you expending effort to marginalize their opinion?

"Dumb Town, or Scum" is an exceptionally scummy read to give out for myriad reasons.

This guy needs a noose. Can't wait for the game to "officially" start so we can "quick-lynch" scum.

Spoiler:

Being town does not equal doing the smart thing nor that they have the right idea.

Yeah, this is dated, and all, especially since I no longer believe you're scum. My original problem was that calling someone "dumb Town" is practically guaranteed to make that player less likely to want to be cooperative with you, and Town cohesion can be a powerful weapon. Making Town cohesion more difficult serves a scum agenda. Plus, by casting another player as dumb, you send a signal that their posts should be ignored. And, regardless of my personal assessment of someone's abilities/intelligence, if I think they're Town, I want their opinion heard, not ignored. I may not agree with them, and I'll discuss with them why, but shoving them aside seems contrary to working towards a Town win.

Om is saying some of the dumbest things known to man, their posts on B&B are atrocious.

Is this another "dumb Town" read? I can't really tell, although I don't believe that's what you meant. I would appreciate you explaining some of what you find atrocious.

I really don't think Nachomamma8 is very likely scum at this juncture. Seems to me he's demonstrating a desire to make the game more difficult for scum through advocating the mass claim (my personal opinion is that early mass claims are functionally better for Town given that site meta so heavily discourages it, and scum get to hide behind "OMG SAVE THE PR'S", and scum aren't prepared for it. Forcing people to lock into a claim early takes away much of the ability of scum to craft a claim later when more is on the line. Well, plus, I derped a LYLO because of a fake claim that I believed and wouldn't have been possible to foresee that it would be beneficial if forced out early.). And, while Nachomamma8 hasn't really stressed this point, there was something significantly scummy about Oversoul's claim. That was the fact that he said he was planning to claim, but didn't when he made his first post. Then, after CrashtextDummie brought up the mass-claim, Oversoul took the easy "no way, man!" route, but then offererd his own claim up and said CrashTextDummie's idea had nothing to do with him claiming. So, Nachomamma8 pushing the Oversoul wagon seems to come from a Town motivated mind set, to me.

You got any kind of a read towards ArcAngel9?

Above spoilered is just here to show him asking Ryu about AA9 just before voting her and that Ryu should still be in his thoughts.

VOTE: ArcAngel9
I'm truly disturbed by the complete lack of scumhunting.

We should massclaim. I am not joking.

Raise of hands, everyone in favor.

are you crazy.. No claims plz!!!!!!!!!!



Mastin2, I don't have any issue with HD hydra.

This is the kind of reaction I expect to a proposed massclaim from scum. Belittle the idea, but take no initiative to figure out why someone is proposing such an idea.

Also, rather than any commentary about any of the content that developed pre-game, or up to that point, an aside to the mod that served no purpose.

^wow, that VCA is just mind blowing. Great job Mastin

This post, in particular, gave me scum feelings towards ArcAngel9. Absolutely no commentary on the game state, no attempts to figure anything out. Prefering to interact with the mod over interacting with the game and other players is not Town motivated.

Her later commentary that the Oversoul wagon is bad 'cuz it's soooo quick again betrays her lack of interest in figuring out anyone's alignment.

Yep, yep, this is scummy behavior from someone who got a scum role PM. Let's lynch her.

{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

Everyone else has either made no impression on me, or haven't posted.

The whole 3rd party/Indie thing threw me for a loop when I read through it. My Town read on BeautyAndTheBeast just about went out the window. With a little more explanation, I'm thinking it probably was a dust up over different meanings applied to the same general term.

My read on Nachomamma8 dropped away from Town through this, though. I mean, I don't at all get him calling Nero Cain's flare up a dumb point. That looked a significant amount like potentially Nachmamma8 subtly buddying pirate mollie in particular, and through that, the hydra read on him. I'm a little unsure about this point, but that was my initial reaction on reading that post.

So, anyway, I'd really like to see more votes on ArcAngel9 or Bulbazak. I really don't like what is coming across as Bulbazak white-knighting BeautyAndTheBeast.

I really think this is scum if you look at how Ryu falls off the map in DLG's final reads post. Town just don't forget about people who they are so strong regarding ie saying 'This guy needs a noose. Can't wait for the game to "officially" start so we can "quick-lynch" scum.' then completely forgetting about them?

anyways sure lynch thad

VOTE: ThAd

[Bulbazak]

Like half the playerlist had thor as "null" or "suspicious" or "scum", why the BUTT would you be planning on watching him over me? Honestly it would have made a LOT more sense for scum to kill me, since I'm a badass and calling out the scum left and right

Actually, you provide chaos and fill the thread up with noise. Why would scum want to kill you again?

Why was my case yesterday that got thezmon lynched "noise" again?

If you notice, NO ONE voted due to my case UNTIL I SPAMMED IT OVER AND OVER, and people STILL ignored it for the longest time

I never said your case against Thezmon was noise, in fact, it was pretty good. However, how you went about it afterwards, as well as a vast majority of your play, has been complete noise. You essentially spam the thread saying very little, and mostly it ends up being the same: LYNCH NACHO!!! LYNCH NACHO!!! LYNCH NACHO!!! Most people have just tuned it out at this point. And if you want to know why your Thezmon case got ignored, that's why. It was essentially the Boy Who Cried Wolf at that point.

he linked a post of what questions he wanted answered, I answered them

If you are going to state that you actually answered the questions, then you need to show where you answered them. Saying you did and not providing the proof is a weak defense. If you refuse to do so, then I have no choice but to consider it another instance of you dodging the question and then lying about it.

Actually, this makes sense. Red Ryu was a ninja. We were bound to have either a watcher or a tracker.

@Rena: Did anybody visit Om n1 or Bacde n2?

didn't she say "nothing of interest happen"?

holy shit

you are role-fishing like a mofo

if you guys let this pass you are all on my list.

I am ready to slap a vote on this but will talk to fery first

nacho if you are town look at this shit. look at it.

When someone claims a PR, the first question should be "What were your results?" As such, it is not scummy for me to ask if anyone visited Rena's 2 targets. Now if someone did, and she thinks that person is a PR, then by all means, she should keep it a secret. I'm not asking for specifics, just the general information that should accompany a PR claim in order to varify it.

Moving on to page 145.

[Bacde]

It was essentially the Boy Who Cried Wolf at that point.

Dude I'm so over being on the same planet as you

You are assuming nacho is town

Not to mention your read is based on "this feels like town nacho" which first of all, no it doesn't, and second of all, THIS FEELS LIKE TOWN BACDE HOW DO I NOT GET THE SAME READ?!

[Bacde]

I'ma sheep Slandaar on this one I guess? You were wrong about Thor but I'm buying ThAd

VOTE: ThAd

[Cephrir]

Thad isn't DLG, Peregrine is.

Thad is scummy, but I remain pretty sure we shouldn't wagon him. If my suspicion turns out to be wrong, we can lynch the hell out of him, and it looks like we're bent on finding out, so... =/

[Bulbazak]

145:

I am talking about when he was blatantly trying to fish out whether someone had a night action or not. kind of like what bulba is doing.

It's not fishing to see if someone has a night action if that person has outright said that they had a night action.

So you think I'd just make up something that never happened?

I never said that.

So if you didn’t think that I was making it it up why asking me for a quote?

Because you asked me about a specific instance. I couldn't remember it, so I wanted you to quote it so that I could properly respond to you.

And I JUST quoted AK’S post since quotes are so goddamn important to you so what’s your response?

Sorry, I didn't realize that was the quote you wanted me to respond to.

@Nero:

4/13 - I don't see it as a huge wagon. You are flipping out over stupid shit. You are trying to sling mud yet you don't call out Bacade for his 5th vote ON Nacho?

The big difference between this quote and what you did is in tone. Kitty's question is more about the standards of the one questioning her, rather than pointing attention towards someone who did something similar. She is also not as offended with the inquiry as you were when Khan asked his question. Finally, in this instance, she is actually being called scum by you, whereas Khan was just asking a simple question and had not made any accusation, which makes your freakout even more suspicious.

And for those who are curious themselves, here is Nero's response to Khan again:

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:its also likely multiball

How in the world can town make this assumption on Day 1?

Its a 24 player game an current site meta suggest more than 1 killing faction. 6 scum seems the ideal number, weather its a 5 man scum team and a sk or two 3 man scum teams.

But all of Slandaar, Bcade and Bulb have speculated that its multiball as well. Why is this a sin for me but not them?

+ why am I not on your town list?

On to 146.

[Bulbazak]

Hey bacde, who did you target last night, as vig?

I'm actually not vig, I was trying to draw the nightkill

I'm a reflexive night-vengeful townie

Hey, it's another bullshit fakeclaim. And it's the second fakeclaim to revolve around the ability to kill. Someone is trying to justify being linked to a murder later in the future.

I'm going to ask you this Khan, because I figure you'd know: Is a vengeful townie even a normal role?

What use is a ninja

unless

town has something like a watcher?

Well if Haylen is Redscum... But that was my mistake.

That reply makes no sense. You said you "don't see how a town watcher workins within the setup" not "how a redscum watcher".

OK

ThAd says 'What use is a ninja unless town has something like a watcher'

See how ThAd doesn't think about the possibility of redscum having a watcher or 'something like a watcher'? thats because he is redscum and knows they don't hence I coloured him red.

So, my reply is; if haylen is redscum which shows how town doesn't have to have a watcher for ninja to be useful for blue... but based on what ThAd said this is obviously not correct hence; But that was my mistake.

Tie this with his townpoints instead of nonblue points and its pretty clear at this point.

You still didn't answer the question. You said:

VOTE: Desperado

I would still lynch Rena. I don't see how a town watcher works within the setup when bluescum had a ninja.

So, how does a town watcher not work in a setup with a blue scum ninja? You are completely discounting that possibility. Why?

UGH WE ARE IN A PICKLE YET AGAIN

CAN'T WE ALL JUST AGREE TO LYNCH SOMEBODY

Are you in a hurry to get to night?

THIS FEELS LIKE TOWN BACDE HOW DO I NOT GET THE SAME READ?!

I have no idea what town Bacde looks like.

[Bacde]

I have no idea what town Bacde looks like.

what does town nacho feel like?

how is town nacho different than scum nacho?

If you can't adequately answer this question, then your read on nacho is bullshit and you should realize it

[Bulbazak]

I have no idea what town Bacde looks like.

what does town nacho feel like?

how is town nacho different than scum nacho?

If you can't adequately answer this question, then your read on nacho is bullshit and you should realize it

Personally, I've never played against scum Nacho. However, Nacho's play in this game is consistent with the other times I've played with him. From my experience, he's a very laid back scumhunter, but he tends to ask some very pressing questions from time to time that helps with the scumhunting, and he tends to notice things that others do not. His train of thought this game also feels genuine, and I do not see anything even remotely scummy concerning his play. As such, I'm going to trust my personal read a lot more than yours in this matter, and your continual harping about why he's so high in MY reads and why YOU are not, just makes me think you are scum even more.

[PeregrineV]

Kind of 10 pages back, but will work on this later today/tonight.

[Nero Cain]

The big difference between this quote and what you did is in tone. Kitty's question is more about the standards of the one questioning her, rather than pointing attention towards someone who did something similar. She is also not as offended with the inquiry as you were when Khan asked his question. Finally, in this instance, she is actually being called scum by you, whereas Khan was just asking a simple question and had not made any accusation, which makes your freakout even more suspicious.

And for those who are curious themselves, here is Nero's response to Khan again:

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:its also likely multiball

How in the world can town make this assumption on Day 1?

Its a 24 player game an current site meta suggest more than 1 killing faction. 6 scum seems the ideal number, weather its a 5 man scum team and a sk or two 3 man scum teams.

But all of Slandaar, Bcade and Bulb have speculated that its multiball as well. Why is this a sin for me but not them?

+ why am I not on your town list?

You think there's a difference in our "deflects" 'cause I'm calling her scum?!? But this is still very much incorrect. The Mala head DID have a scum read on me and Mara was even ok with it until recently.

Kitty did the EXACT same thing as me. I called her fourth vote on Nacho (and her "oh I didn't know there was a Nacho wagon") opportunistic. Her questioning me about why I didn't call out Bcade for his 5th vote (despite him already being on the wagon therefore he wasn't the 5th vote) is no different then my questioning KK over why he didn't question others that were setup speculating.

Also, context says that Khan was light calling me scummy.

[Bacde]

I've never played against scum Nacho. However, Nacho's play in this game is consistent with the other times I've played with him. From my experience, he's a very laid back scumhunter, but he tends to ask some very pressing questions from time to time that helps with the scumhunting, and he tends to notice things that others do not. His train of thought this game also feels genuine, and I do not see anything even remotely scummy concerning his play.

What would you expect from scumcho?

What about his suspicion of OS read as genuine to you?

[Nachomamma8]

I misremembered that post because I was talking about it with it.
But the post I voted you for is quoted in my votepost.

you actually think that my vote on Rena is a scumtell?!?

it was a lazy bullshit vote. there are a lot of slots that haven't done shit to scumhunt (ThAd's is a big one), but why do you single out Rena?

Nacho is acting skeezy imo and nothing he's done has changed that

Still trying to talk with you about it. You're still ignoring me.

I think there is a compelling reason not to do this. Stoppit.

I could be wrong though.

This is starting to make assumptions that are useless and a little stupid, yet easily exploitable. Don't do this.

what does town nacho feel like?

how is town nacho different than scum nacho?

Do you want to explain this? You've said that town Nacho is better than scum Nacho, but you haven't really talked about things past that.

[mastin2]

Gonna be rather busy this weekend for surez, so AP should be keeping an eye on ya.

[Bacde]

Nacho are you serious about this nero scumread

cuz I'ma need you to walk me through this

if you're right, you would completely change my read on you

so I wanna see this

[Nero Cain]

it was a lazy bullshit vote. there are a lot of slots that haven't done shit to scumhunt (ThAd's is a big one), but why do you single out Rena?

yeah 'cause I haven't been scumreading that slot since day 1. Fucking die scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Wait, what is the case against me again?
That I came across odd when I claimed neighbor?

[ffullisade]

@ bulba

probably the last time I will bother with you unless you continue to tweak my scumdar.

I addressed the hypocrisy in #1888. he didn't like my answer in post #1893. he thinks it is a playstyle issue. mebbe it is considering his flip. but I answered him and I simply don't understand why he was not understanding my answer.

posts #2764 and #2786

I answered his questions.

so you trying to push this very

limp case of yours

is like trying to adjust the right side of your pants but using your left hand to do it from behind. as in you are seriously reaching here.

thor was not paying attention to the game HE EVEN SAID THIS WHEN HE SAID HE DIDN"T READ 20 PAGES

and let's look at the question you asked rena.

bulb: hi rena, who all visited bc? can anyone confirm?
rena: hi bulb. well I said nothing of interest happened nothing led to a nk but so and so visited them but do you think they might be a town special??????

^ like what response did you expect rena to give??? she would have been outing town specials at that point and if anything her reluctance to do so makes me give her town points but scum claiming to be watcher meta :/

[ffullisade]

slaandy, I asked you what your opinion was on rena's claim

nero did you answer this?

I have ak and penguin as answering but neither of you

[Nero Cain]

I did.

[ffullisade]

I did.

I don't see it!

you didn't say anything about it from the time that you voted rena from the time that you claimed.

what am I missing

[ffullisade]

*she claimed