Micro 186: Vengeball (Game is over)

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, so do BOTH mafia teams die if a godfather is lynched?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

As you may have noticed when you /inned, the game is done with mechanics from the Vengeful Mafia Setup, meaning should you ever get the Mafia Godfather lynched, it's instant town win.

I don't see any other way to read this.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Dead
Cherry Dog - Misspelt Mod - Died due to being spelled wrongly.

LOL at this.

Anyway, given mp5's newbie I suggest a utility lynch b/c I can't read him.

VOTE: mp5

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You know, the vengekills actually make this less town-sided.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

My thought was originally that this is INSANELY town-sided because of the godfathers and it being nightless. We have 4 scum and 2 mislynches at first, and the scum might go after each other.

Not now, of course, but w/e.

Also inclined to baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa but eh too early.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

???

I would sheep but L-1 on page 3 not a good idea is my thoughts.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

UNVOTE: mp5

Also jake what?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What is 134 trying to say?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

W/E it seems everyone wants to lynch katsuki and I don't really know what to say so BLATANT QUICKHAMMER FTW.

VOTE: katsuki

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

you have a guy who wants "more discussion" yet drops the hammer without creating any discussion.

Yeeah. The discussion is hard, so DROP THE HAMMAH WOOO/

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Exactly. I wasn't doing anything and I likely WOULDN'T do anything so the only thing I could really think of to fix that was HAMMERTIME.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

???

I don't know what to say, so I quickhammer.

This is scummy.

Riiiight...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wow I'm resorting to this defence again xD.

Tempted to selfvote to get it over with b/c my defense of a wagon is completely inadequate.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hey guys!

I'm also obv town, but it's not my fault nobody else can read me as well as I can!

(I'm perfectly serious though).

Actually, maybe I forgot my role pm. Lemme go check.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Nope, still town.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hey guys! I'm town, yet I don't give a crap about working who else is town b/c that's LAAAAAAAAAME!

Man I really want to draw scum so I can point at this.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hey I'm gonna go have a look but 2 town reads and 2 scum is a dumb idea just b/c of the split of town/scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait did I not post my vote jake post?

Okay, posting it now

VOTE: Jake From State Farm

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Anyway, I said something like it's really hard to tell the town/scum of who's left but he definitely gives me scumvibes.

I'm also paranoid about mp5. He's null which kinda leans scum with this ratio.

Rift looks town, but yeah I really don't want to commit to this. Same with JK, although he defended katsuki kinda hard which is a bit risky for scum, mebbe... Hmmmm.

I really don't want to try to split scum yet. Lynch jake first.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

NOPE. I'm still town.

Also I kinda agree with jason's point in 153.

xD.

Are you linking those in teams or no?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Jake, why say that?

Also cmon I'm toooooooown.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Not the guy who hammered with no discussion at all?

In my defence, katsuki was the only possible lynch so there didn't NEED to be any discussion.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Idk. You're the one who said that.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Does it matter? We need to lynch scum, pure and simple.

Also I just realized the endgame is likely gonna happen, so um

Mod, what happens in a 2:1:1 endgame? Does Godfatherness have any effect?

^ About to be lynched Goon question. Still like to know it.

And jake, yes. I sheeped you. And now, I think you're scum. It's the same as not hammering for more discussion then hammering b/c I'm not making any discussion.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, it really doesn't matter as much from my perspective as everyone thinks I'm scum anyway so whoever you think is the third town is gonna have to disagree with you or vote with town unless it's a vote on me. So yeah. I'm gonna deliberately play scummily b/c I'm already seen as superscum.

And we're in LyLo I think. If we lynch a town we cannot win. Ohell. Time to serious mode activate.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hey rift sure. You're probably town so yeah.

VOTE: Seanald

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I don't actually give a crap about the venge b/c we lose anyway.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Oh. Yeah. We have to go 2:1:2 and then lynch the godfather in the 2 which is hella unlikely.

2:1:1 has no incentive for scum to lynch so w/e.

And again, I agree with jason. Lynching the godfather isn't going to happen unless the other scumteam says "hey we're fine with lynching the godfather," or someone gets who the godfather is wrong. You have just said why this is NOT a good idea for scum, so

UNVOTE: seanald

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay

VOTE: jake from state farm

Hangon, who here thinks both me and jake are scum?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, ignore that question, it doesn't actually matter b/c it doesn't help at all.

Also, self-meta, I don't think I've ever managed to fool people this long posting this much as scum except my very first game which was just pure newb.

(Worst self-meta ever lol. W/E. I'm not censoring myself)

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I've posted 29 posts in 14 pages. This is not a lurker postcount.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I'm not taking ALL the blame when people lynch me and I'm town, btw.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

but nobody is even voting for you except klick so your post in 331 makes no sense really.

Mp5 wants to lynch me first.
Many people think I'm scum.
It's very possible I'm getting lynched.

And it's self-meta. I know what's lurking for me and what isn't and this isn't lurking. This is trolling. I lurk a lot as scum, because playing like I do as town gets me lynched, with both the town badplay fails and the scum imitation fails.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Yeah. I can't self-meta properly b/c I haven't drawn scum since I started taking games less seriously.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Nope. Still town.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Lemme guess. Lynching jake is just not gonna happen, right?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I have a question. We all know jake is scum so why are we not voting him?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also lul that's such a goon protect the GF question, so lolz, but w/e.

It's still 3/1/2 if he's the goon on t'other team, so you can go ahead and lynch seanald later?

Pedit: Where's the scum motivation in lying?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You know, I now feel a little like voting rift.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, that'd be extreme stupidity given who else is voting rift, but ew I don't like the reasoning for scumjason at allll.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

siv, where did you go broseph?

This? Ummm, I'm european, so bed.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

The joke thing? I think that's you taking things waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

There's no pro-town motivation to do it.
There's no scum motivation to do it.

It's fairly independent of alignment.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, some of the reasoning is good and fine and I agree with both of you on jason scum.

But part of it looks like "We MUST lynch the GFs first, and anyone who disagrees with this is scum."

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, a situation of 3/2/1 is superior to a situation of 3/2/2, so work towards that.

For scum, is 3/2 better or worse than 3/2/1 as the 2? We both agree it's 3/2/1, so why would scum lynch the GF when they can get the opposing goon?

Also, this is a personal worry, but 3/2/1 and a town lynch can still be rather winnable for town.

Besides, i think your 2nd post of explanation on jason was the thingy or summat.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hrmm, with that, idk about seanald.

I'm really sure it's jake though. Lynch jake.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

If rift is town i will be extremely surprised, seriously.

I could see Seanald

Maybe

being scum, but i somehow doubt it, seanald is being seanald.

We shouldn't be looking to lynch "godfather's" and i use the term loosely, we should be looking for Mafia.

If they happen to be the godfather then good, if not it's no loss.

The bolded is not a town thought process. Lynching a goon would make it 3-3.

But this. This is what I didn't like.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What's going on in my mind?

Rift looked vaguely town earlier, and apart from that one thing...
While seanald doesn't look town, he doesn't look incredibly scummy to me either. Tbh I haven't actually bothered looking. I've been sortof off in my own fantasy land where we were all agreed on lynching jake.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, had a quick skim of some isos and methinks klick is very town.

My position is yucky. I find myself kinda agreeing with rift's reads yet simultaneously thinking rift is probably actually scum... Also stuck in "only 2 can be town" out of rift/mp5/klick/jason.

Can we pleaaaaaaaaaaaaase lynch jake?

I've a couple quotes saved up but hey tis just quotes my casemaking skills suck way more than my scumhunting does.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What I don't like is that you're making it seem scummy to want to lynch scum first.

Trying to lynch people based off godfather tells is fine, it's your method of scumhunting. But you're throwing someone else's methods of scumhunting into a pool of scumminess waaay too easily.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Uh, no?

Of seanald and rift, i'd prefer to lynch rift.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I wasn't defending, I was clarifying what I found scummy, because what jason found scummy is not what I found scummy.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Venging a GF just kills the GF, unless it's different from normal vengefuls.

But still,

Mod, can you confirm this?

Also jake, thank you for the compliment, but I'm not that good.

And rift, if we lynch a goon the game is still really difficult, but it's not as difficult as it is now, b/c atm it's REALLY badly against us.

Explain to me how 3/2/1 is worse than 3/2/2?

Also,

Mod, in a 0/2/2 situation is it a tie between scumteams?

Also, I'm going to say if I'm the last townie I'm ruling against jake and then against rift and then against mp5 .

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also, rift,what was the reasoning in 153 you liked initially, and why did you change your mind on that post?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Right. The post directly above this is nice, but before that

OK. I do feel like if we lynch a goon next it becomes much more difficult for town to win this due to the numbers. Lynching a GF is best. Lynching a goon is 2nd best.

"If we go to 3/2/1 it becomes much more difficult."

I am not comparing 3-2-2 to 3-2-1. 3-2-2 is where we are now.

After today's lynch it can be one of three things: 3-2-1, 3-2, or 2-2-2. Of those, 3-2 is the best for town, and it is what I'm aiming for. If we get near deadline without a 3-2 possibility, then Syr and I will have no choice but to settle for a try at 3-2-1 but I won't be happy about it.

"I'm not comparing the current position to 3/2/1."

Okay. Anyway,

UNVOTE: jake from state farm
VOTE: jasonwazza

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, I'm a little screwed b/c I'm not in a solid unlynchable townblock of 3, but everyone's reads are screwed up by me so w/e.

Also, you're right.

3/2/1 less town becomes 2/2/1, where to continue either noshoot or 2/1/1, and 2/1/1 is scum to win need to lynch the other scum.

I could argue it's easier, because it's now 4 against 2, although 4v2 isn't easier than 3v2 necessarily...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

If you aren't actively trying to figure this out, you're creating a extremely convincing facsimile thereof.

OSHINOOOO.

This is me A) Being a gf and looking town b/c superscummy doesn't work after a point and B) ignoring my partner and just working out the rest of everyone.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Here's my reasoning for playing like this (mostly lies)

Scum should look like town.
Town is the opposite of scum.
Thus, town should look like scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Jake, reading is fundemental. I have absolutely no idea why you think that from his post.

And that is actually a good point from mp5. Except I'm not 100% sure he's town. W/E.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait mp5 why do you think jake is town?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Seanald is not a GF, unless it's with me or someone was super ballsy.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Like, I think klick could have done it, but I hadn't actually done anything beyond "Lol vote jake" when he voted, apart from one vote/unvote on seanald.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, thinking a bit, klick is supertown.
Rift/Seanald makes no sense.

Thus, mp5 probably scum.

PEdit: Wait it's my scumday?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Double-bus. Seanald put rift on L-1, and rift seemed just as happy to lynch seanald as jason.

It DOES work, if you assume the scumteam is able to tell which one of them is getting lynched and w/e.

But I really don't get the case on seanald at all. It's quite possibly rift/mp5.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I've had a vague paranoid feeling about mp5 the entire time, and just not done anything with it.

I played in a newbie game with him (1300, i think) and he was my one solid townread the whole time and he turned out to be scum, so yeah.

Jason/Jake were both on rift, and seanald was massively in the camp with jake.

I want to look at jake/seanald's interactions.

PEdit: How is that completely utterly town?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What if?

He's scum and he didn't actually know?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I'm just saying, him being scum doesn't mean he knows what the setup is. He knows it's 2 in his scumteam, but not anything else.

Meh. It IS really easily deducible from there.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Awww we lost stufffff

BAsically I was tying you and jake together b/c scum you wouldn't have done that.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wait, um

VOTE: mp5

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hangon isn't seanald voting me?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

AW GOD A CASE WHYYYYYYY.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

MP5, as fery has already explained, is our top townread. Klick is, therefore, scum by POE.

What the hell is the link?

He passed that one before the tigers ate the thread, with his ridiculous "tying Jake to Seanald" idea. It was retarded, granted. But Siv genuinely believed it. That much was obvious.

Huh?

Ummmm... this response is so stupid.

Anyway, it would be REALLY embarassing if I lynched mp5 because I have a carryover townread on klick from the earlygame...

UNVOTE: mp5

Hmm, mp5/seanald makes how much sense...

I don't care to look w/e.

PEDIT GODDAMMIT

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So... I'm not sure I see a situation in which MP5 isn't scum, or at least a good lynch. He also has the added bonus of being the Godfather if he is scum.

VOTE: MP5

If you're town, you should shoot Siv. Reasoning being that, if I'm right, scum are split into the groups {MP5, Siv, Klick} and {Rift, Seanald}.

What's the first two sentences supposed to mean? Why is the second necessary?

And I kinda agree with his splitting, but shoot klick not me.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Klick who would you have shot had we lynched you?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I was like "Eh w/e I guess i'll just see if anyone else posted OMG OKAY GOTTA MAKE SURE I POST THIS SUPERQUICK SO IT DOESN'T LOOK FAKED"

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What other kind of talk would they have?

That's a weird place to townslip so dammit.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Ah god. Sorry mp5...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I have no idea why I think you two crossvoting will make me more confident but that's my current thought. Weird.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Argh I woulda probably ended up lynching klick noooooooo.

Anyway, i'm going to just flip a coin because w/e.

Heads I go through with this.
Tails I don't.

Tails.

Whatever I don't give a crap.

VOTE: seanald

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

UNVOTE: seanald

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um... about that, I kinda thought rift/klick made no sense but it could have been the whole suspicion was arranged and then klick lynches mp5 before a wagon can get going.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

A lot.

But hey, I get your point.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So yeah w/e

VOTE: rift aoops.

VOTE: seanald

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I mean, uh.

VOTE: seanald

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Syry, when do you mean?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um... about that, I kinda thought rift/klick made no sense but it could have been the whole suspicion was arranged and then klick lynches mp5 before a wagon can get going.

Everything after the but came in between those two posts.