NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Bacde]

OH SNAPS THEZMON IS DEFINITELY SCUM

I CANT SAY WHY BECAUSE THATS CHEATING BUT SUDDENLY IM VERY SURE

[Bacde]

OK WHO WANTS TO TRUST ME ON THIS ONE SERIOUSLY

IF HE FLIPS TOWN THEN LYNCH ME IMMEDIATELY NEXT

IF HE FLIPS SCUM THEN LYNCH NACHO IMMEDIATELY NEXT

I'M 100% LETS DO THIS GO GO GO

VOTE: Thezmon

[Bacde]

1) So you're saying your reads haven't changed from D1 to D2 based on night kills?
2)The fuck you mean why not? The scum can take you out at night time or manipulate you in a way during the day to work to their advantage. You just put a big target on your back when you didn't need to.

1) Not especially

2) How I play is my own perogative; scum can make what they want of my claim. Town definitely will after I die

1) You know who doesn't have reads that change after flips (especially two flips)? Scum. Scum doesn't need to change their reads. Your case on Nacho is exactly the same as it was D1: Crap.

2) I still can't believe you decided to do such, but we'll leave it as it is.

3) Stop pretending like these questions matter at all, its pretty obvious they don't

Obviously your scumhunting is very different from mine, then.

Ok, why is thezmon trying to heavily imply that I am scum, yet never votes me, doesn't push on me, and later in the post he talks to me as though I'm town?

This entire post is Horseradish

Pass me the Ketchup

[Bacde]

^^By the way that last post isn't why I'm 100% on thezmon being scum

but I think its enough to get him lynched

which will lead to a nacho lynch

trust me on this one guys

Slandaar, I'm looking at you

[Bacde]

AA9 and Hanzo_5(ThAd) are probably the last two remaining blue scum

this game is too easy

[Thor665]

You are lying Thor. I didn't claim he lied anywhere.

He was clearly telling the truth; he padded out his reasoning with something which is not related to alignment to look town. Town don't need to pad reasoning to look town Therefore its scummy.

Why did you need this explaining? it is very obvious what I was saying the first time I said it.

Oh gawds, it's like talking to a brick wall.

Trying again - okay, he 'padded' he didn't 'lie' I love the semantics. The question is, why did he, as scum, feel the need to pad a read that was a null read?
Why is the padding not coming from newb town who thinks the silliness he's garbling *is* a legit tell?
How did you conclude he was the one and not the other?

[Bacde]

Slandaar you are prone to tunneling on town listen to me man I've got a scumbag here

[Bacde]

Thor nothing I say will ever get you to change your opinion about anything so why don't you just read thezmon's ISO and come to the same conclusion that I have

[Thor665]

@Slandaar - And as I've said before - feel free to insert *word of your choice* for what he did - and then answer the question.

@Bacde - still looking for your take on the exchange with me and FF.
As far as Thez goes, I vaguely like the no vote point, I am not sold by the 'talk to me like I'm town' point, as I don't think he did (yes, I see why you're saying he did, but I think you're reading it weird) and the rest is a 'reason that cannot be explained' which I never sheep, and, frankly, after your histronics with Nacho yesterday, and now a supposed stronger tell on Thez, I am vastly uninterested in doing so today.

Tell you what, answer my question and I'll move my vote to him for at least 24 hours just so I can get at least someone to address my points for a moment.

[thezmon221]

Really? You think its crap? Because you haven't refuted any of it. And actually, yesterday you were saying that it was pretty good, it just wasn't

quite enough

to get you to vote.

You had two good points. I didn't vote because you meta whore and I didn't think he was scum.

You know who ELSE doesn't have reads that change after flips? Town who is correct. And if you had even been reading me yesterday, my read on nacho DID change yesterday, until I finally become convinced of him being scum again

...So if a person flips town that you thought was scum initially, your reads would still be the same? Even still, Syry and Red's flips still impacted my reads some, even if I had them painted as town and null-scum respectively. What you're implying here would be that you KNEW they were that alignment, though you shouldn't. And even THEN, the fact that Syry flipped a sort of PR should change things as well.

try harder to paint me as scummy plz

You're doing a pretty good job yourself.

Ok, why is thezmon trying to heavily imply that I am scum, yet never votes me, doesn't push on me, and later in the post he talks to me as though I'm town?

What kind of posts are you reading? I never implied you're scum. I think you're delusional and useless town.

PEDIT: For fuck's sake, can you stop spamming 30000 posts and put more than one coherent thought into a post instead of scattering pieces of it?

[Thor665]

Ok, why is thezmon trying to heavily imply that I am scum, yet never votes me, doesn't push on me, and later in the post he talks to me as though I'm town?

What kind of posts are you reading? I never implied you're scum. I think you're delusional and useless town.

You *are* attacking him a lot if you think he's town, to the exclusion of much else.

[Bacde]

@Thor the fact that you are willing to reach out and work with me on this reads to me as very townie, sorry I didn't answer your question? I guess I didn't see it let me find it

Spoiler:

no. what I am saying is that you are using certain words to ascribe an intention that I don't have. that is what I am saying

What intentions am I ascribing to you that you didn't have?
Specifically.

not for that

Okay, so we will move past you making up my voting history in your own head and not react or change our stance in any way.
Meanwhile we will continue to accuse Thor of misrepping us when the only one who has been proven to be using false info is Mollie.
No admission of this will happen.

I thought I did.

Quote the explanation?

okay. or *maybe* you are just scum. *maybe* it really is that simple.

SO...you're just going to ignore the multiple points I noted that suggested what I'm doing is town play and settle for 'but *maybe* you're scum!' as the rebuttal?
If this is a scumtell, shouldn't my answers all be provably false because town wouldn't do what I'm doing?
And if my answers aren't provably false, haven't I just shown how it's not a scumtell?

okay

This is Mollie agreeing with my understanding of the conversation.
Which means she agrees with it.
Which means I am amazed she has previously acted so confused about where we are in the conversation.

2 precludes 1

I agree that those seem futzy too, and called you on them at the time. 3 and 4 are my main concerns though.

I think you should ask the ones you

feel

like I didn't answer, cos I

feel

like I answered them all.

I...did ask them again.
Then you dodged them again.
Why do I need to ask them again a third time?
I *feel* like you dodged them twice so I *feel* like I don't need to ask them again...?

I didn't ignore you in audio mafia what are you even talking about here. one minute you are saying that I WAS ALL OVER YOU and the next you are saying that I ignored you wth

I said I (Thor) was all over you (Mollie)
You did ignore me. Remember when I asked you to explain how me 'changing the order of your actions' was a scumtell on me?
And you dodged and avoided and said 'but I already answered that'?
And then you were scum.
Y'know, kind of *exactly* what is happening here?
Yeah...

I didn't want links I wanted you to restate your questions. and I think I *did* answer your questions you are the one who keeps pushing this dumb agenda. you know who pushes dumb agendas it is scum that is who

You do realize I already provided you links to the dodged questions once already and you responded at that time that you were intentionally dodging those questions - why do you want to answer them now? And the 'I didn't want links, I wanted re-stated questions' answer...seriously? Why? Was I hard to understand the first time through?

except I didn't dodge.

it isn't dodging the questions it is me blatantly avoiding going 1 on 1 with you cos I can't.

Oh, okay, right- you didn't *dodge* you *blatantly avoided*.
Should I start using that instead od 'dodge' now?
Fine, you blatantly avoided my questions, this is different from dodging because...well...um...actualy, both of them result in you not answering the question and acting like it was never asked, so maybe it's just that you didn't do it subtly? I guess that's the difference.
Big whoop.

that it does not qualify as a lie.

How does it not? I asked you to explain that.
This doesn't qualify as explanation.

wrt the bold: there is a disconnect here. I didn't target you in audio for meta reasons, never went after you for them so what in the world are you even talking about

I'm talking about your play in this game.
You are aware, for meta reasons, that I do tunnel as town.
Because you've seen it.
You've been scum and seen it.
It happened TO YOU.
Then, in this game, you claim...Thor wouldn't derp tunnel like this as town!

...so...yeah.

Ok, so far all I'm seeing is you playing as unreadable-Thor, and that throwing everybody else off. I think you tend to twist other people's cases to make them look way worse and scummier than they actually are (and its a skill I know you are good at), so I'm afraid thats what you are doing right now if you read FF as scum.

Because FF is town--just because mollie is town. Mollie is blatantly, obviously, ridiculously town. She has a certain playstyle when she's scum, and I have full confidence that if she was scum RIGHT NOW that she'd be playing to that playstyle.

Can you link me to Audio mafia? I'll tell you if she was playing to her scum meta in that game.

@Bacde - still looking for your take on the exchange with me and FF.
As far as Thez goes, I vaguely like the no vote point, I am not sold by the 'talk to me like I'm town' point, as I don't think he did (yes, I see why you're saying he did, but I think you're reading it weird) and the rest is a 'reason that cannot be explained' which I never sheep, and, frankly, after your histronics with Nacho yesterday, and now a supposed stronger tell on Thez, I am vastly uninterested in doing so today.

And to be quite honest, I'm still just as sure that Nacho is scum. But I fucked that lynch up yesterday and no one is following me anymore, but I KNOW that a thezmon lynch is viable and I KNOW that he is scum partners with nacho. I respect you not following me for the "reason which cannot be explained" (since I just recently got screwed over by OverSoul-scum who did the same thing), but I really am that sure right now.

[Bacde]

You had two good points. I didn't vote because you meta whore and I didn't think he was scum.

I actually don't play by meta

I use a variety of methods to find my scum

but I love how you're gonna keep pushing my case as "meta" because thats the easiest way for you to discredit it

[Bacde]

What kind of posts are you reading? I never implied you're scum. I think you're delusional and useless town.

YES!

Town, I saved you. Thank me later. LOL! this is great

He just literally lied because he can't keep track of his opinions that are displayed in his posts. Lets look at this gem right here:

1) You know who doesn't have reads that change after flips (especially two flips)? Scum. Scum doesn't need to change their reads. Your case on Nacho is exactly the same as it was D1: Crap.

This is Thezmon's argument:

1) Bacde does A
2) Scum do A

3 (assumption) Town is much less likely to do A

4) (inference/implication) Bacde is scum

Yet he denies it.

Sheep Bacde. Scumhunting made easy.

--------

Possible Objections: But you inserted the assumption that town is much less likely to do A! Maybe thezmon doesn't actually think that!

Counter-argument: If thezmon actually doesn't have that assumption, then why did he even include the "You know who does A? Scum do A" part of his post? I can't imagine a town making that statement without the intention of implying that I am scum.

[Bacde]

The next 11 posts should all be votes for thezmon fyi

[Thor665]

Ok, so far all I'm seeing is you playing as unreadable-Thor, and that throwing everybody else off. I think you tend to twist other people's cases to make them look way worse and scummier than they actually are (and its a skill I know you are good at), so I'm afraid thats what you are doing right now if you read FF as scum.

It's funny, because your current 'catch' on Thez is remarkably similar to what I have issues with Mollie over. I guess she does that as town and most people don't?

Can you link me to Audio mafia? I'll tell you if she was playing to her scum meta in that game.

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/9GN4yrhCaUvR

The relevant points are as follows;

Thor calls Mollie out on being scummy.
She complains that I'm misrepping her by changing the order of how she did things (I'm not even sure if I did or didn't, to be honest)
I say the order doesn't matter, but explain to me how that's a scumtell.
She says the order does matter.
I ask 'how'?
She says she already answered the question.
I point out that she hasn't.
She tries to act like she has, and keeps dancing around as I try to force her to explain it, even starting up other lies and arguments to prevent having to revist the past.

Sound familiar to...y'know...anything that has happened here today?
Especially with her saying I don't tunnel as town?

Take your time.

[Cephrir]

Yeah, I immediately noticed that contradiction as well. I thought you were town thez. =/

Not sheeping at present (for one thing it's worth noting ffull lied just as badly if not worse because they kept changing the story over more posts and still hold they didn't contradict themselves). But 3065 is yet another example of how absurdly town Bacde is.

[Cephrir]

@thez: Do you really think bluescum would bus today? they lost one already and it's multiball.

True, I forgot about that. However Haylen's

death and flip as bluescum

wouldn't clear you as town, mind you.

Oops, that's what it should say.

If I wanted to be cheeky I would point out that this looks more like a scumslip now but I would never do something like that

[ffullisade]

hi thor

hi

let's talk. lets get real close.

I am not going to do any wall warring with you. I am going to play in the style that I am most comfortable with cos otherwise we will on for another 20 pages. all you are doing is twisting everything I say to suit your personal narrative and it is starting to get very annoying so stop doing that.

so, your case on me is basically that my story is inconsistent. is inconsistency a scumtell of mine? cos you spent an awful lot of time defending me in this game when you replaced in:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=24103

for doing that as town when adam was all and hot bothered to get me lynched. he did in that game the exact same thing that a you are doing in

this

game.

oh and dodging? didn't you try this crap in the cult game? why I do believe you did. this is so textbook it isn't funny, cos voided did in that game what bulb is doing in this one which is to support your crappy "dodging" case on me. you made it up in that game and you are making it up in this one.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=24690

so will you look at that. I just proved that you have town meta on me for doing what you are accusing me of so wat do you think that.

POW!

your meta case sucks and I think you know it. you are not isoing me or even bothering to try to discern my alignment. you are doing the very same thing you did in the cult game. <----- this is why I think you are scum.

eta, xpost:

no thor this is what happened.
mollie foses thor.
mollie pursues her read

while also looking elsewhere

.

thor omguses mollie

.
thor pursues mollie and slaandy to the exclusion of others in the game, not offering any other reads.
thor blatantly admits to not reading pages even though it could impact his read on us.
here we are today.

^^^ this is what happened.

you know I don't think that I am the one who is looking uber scummy here.

[ffullisade]

^ mollie

[thezmon221]

You had two good points. I didn't vote because you meta whore and I didn't think he was scum.

I actually don't play by meta

I use a variety of methods to find my scum

but I love how you're gonna keep pushing my case as "meta" because thats the easiest way for you to discredit it

But it is meta. Show me it isn't.

"Nacho isn't acting like town-Nacho! He's scum! Nacho is playing useless!"

That's meta, and that's what you're doing.

What kind of posts are you reading? I never implied you're scum. I think you're delusional and useless town.

YES!

Town, I saved you. Thank me later. LOL! this is great

He just literally lied because he can't keep track of his opinions that are displayed in his posts. Lets look at this gem right here:

1) You know who doesn't have reads that change after flips (especially two flips)? Scum. Scum doesn't need to change their reads. Your case on Nacho is exactly the same as it was D1: Crap.

This is Thezmon's argument:

1) Bacde does A
2) Scum do A

3 (assumption) Town is much less likely to do A

4) (inference/implication) Bacde is scum

Yet he denies it.

Sheep Bacde. Scumhunting made easy.

No, not really. I think you're town, though dumb and useless. I always have, and quite possibly will for a while. The fact that I presented an action to you and clearly stated that scum did it was to garner interest from you, as well as to see where your motivations lie since you're stubborn. You see, it's been debated, even here in this thread, that dumb/useless town can be synonymous with scum. It's a gray area, so I'm trying to discern between the two and make sure I am on the correct side of the spectrum.

[ffullisade]

bc, will probably sheep your vote but I do not want thez speedlynched I would like for fery to be given enough time to get her feet in the game. I waffle on nacho, cureently I am back to scumreading him for a couple of meta reasons other than what I have already said.

oh and speaking of dodging questions I asked thor what he thought about my meta case on nacho and I don't think he responded. pot meet kettle.

also why are you scumreading us cephrir? you had us as town yesterday

[Bacde]

The relevant points are as follows;

Thor calls Mollie out on being scummy.
She complains that I'm misrepping her by changing the order of how she did things (I'm not even sure if I did or didn't, to be honest)
I say the order doesn't matter, but explain to me how that's a scumtell.
She says the order does matter.
I ask 'how'?
She says she already answered the question.
I point out that she hasn't.
She tries to act like she has, and keeps dancing around as I try to force her to explain it, even starting up other lies and arguments to prevent having to revist the past.

Sound familiar to...y'know...anything that has happened here today?
Especially with her saying I don't tunnel as town?

Take your time.

hmm

This game is so big, so I believe your take on the story, but can you link me to the relevant posts?

this is interesting

Maybe majiffy was coaching mollie in their QT?

he did try to make it seem like he wasn't reading mollie AT ALL, and he kept emphasizing that

[Bacde]

bc, will probably sheep your vote but I do not want thez speedlynched I would like for fery to be given enough time to get her feet in the game. I waffle on nacho, cureently I am back to scumreading him for a couple of meta reasons other than what I have already said.

oh and speaking of dodging questions I asked thor what he thought about my meta case on nacho and I don't think he responded. pot meet kettle.

also why are you scumreading us cephrir? you had us as town yesterday

thank you, btw I'm not interested in lynching you today I'd much rather get thez and then nacho

[Bacde]

No, not really. I think you're town, though dumb and useless. I always have, and quite possibly will for a while. The fact that I presented an action to you and clearly stated that scum did it was to garner interest from you, as well as to see where your motivations lie since you're stubborn. You see, it's been debated, even here in this thread, that dumb/useless town can be synonymous with scum. It's a gray area, so I'm trying to discern between the two and make sure I am on the correct side of the spectrum.

lol this is a whole lot of words that can basically be summed up to say "oh shit I messed up"

I've gone through the whole "you suck you're useless look elsewhere for scum" song and dance before, it was when I was scum and absta101 was SURE that I was scum. And I said it to absta101

No, its never been debated that "useless town" is synonymous with scum. Also, I'm not useless. I have a scum in my grip and I'm about to squeeze