Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Ether]

vote: MrBuddyLee

There can only be one distracted lurker.

[Ether]

I'm not lurking in a game of this deliciousness.

Oh. Fair's fair.

unvote

Glork, I'd like to say at this point that the sight of your avatar is weird and just a little disorienting to me. (Or, in keeping with the flavor, your face.)

[Ether]

I was just getting frustrated with the fact that it had been 2 full days and we were no closer to finding anything out than normal. Yes, I understand that random votes are a normal part of the game, but I also understand that it occurs until someone slips up and says something stupid. In an invitational, I assumed that nobody would be so stupid to do such. Apparently I was wrong.

vote: AndrewS

I don't really care about a no-lynch vote; it's too blatant for me to care particularly. That it seems you weren't

expecting

FoSes for it concerns me a bit more. Er, I'm confused about that post I just quoted.

(On a fluffy note, let's see what

I

can spark.

Damn

I'm face-to-face!)

[Ether]

Andrew: "No lynch!"
Buncha people: "Endangering the town. Die."
Andrew: "Just kidding."
Buncha people: "Were not."
Andrew: "Well, I wasn't

actually

endangering the town."
Buncha people: "WIFOM."

unvote; vote: IH

. Watching Adele and Mgm; I'm not really focused on IH in particular.

I don't know if I'd believe Andrew if I came in to see his reaction before anyone else posted. I do know that I

really

dislike the responses to him. I thought the original vote was a null tell. Where's the WIFOM? Just what are you people arguing?

Voidie, you've acknowledged this without really touching it: posts 53 and 57. Thoughts?

[Ether]

The initial attack on AndrewS was that a no-lynch would hurt the town. It's been pointed out that a no-lynch wouldn't actually happen. So, yeah. The reason that scum would be more likely than town to vote no-lynch seems gone. Now what? (I don't mind Thesp's statistics argument, incidentally, and it even rings a bell, but I don't feel it's good enough for a lynch.)

He knows that now. He didn't know that when he proposed it. How does this make him more town?

Um, IH? Despite it containing Ether, this

is

an invitational. We know what we're doing (or in my case, we know who to bribe and/or blackmail and/or sleep with). Off the top of my head, I don't remember even newbie games on 'Scum where an unoptimal no-lynch agenda actually got through. It in no way made Andrew more town; just, I didn't find it scummy. (Now, his own behavior after the vote...well, if his wagon didn't go ridiculous, I'd probably still be on it.)

Same with the speed of the wagon. How does that make him more town?

Many of the people who placed votes on him did so for bullshit reasons. IH, can you explain how a vote for no-lynch equates to an actual no-lynch? Seems pretty harmless to me. Where specifically was the WIFOM you were talking about?

As for what information I gathered, I was hoping to see who was lynch-hungry. As it is, several were. The only of those that I feel were particularly scummy was Adele - it's quite common for a mafia to vote, and then to state a rule, nothing else.

A (*shrug*) at Thesp's 151.

Whether they meant it is irrelevant. Suggesting it is scummy, following through on it by making the vote is scummier.

Why?

I'd be all "BLAM! BANG! Yer dead!!"

*bangs better*

He only has 463 posts though. That's, like, not a lot.

(Back in my playstyle, sonny, I'd have danced a

jig

to have 463 posts. 'Course, what with deflation and all, we couldn't ever hit numbers like that anyway. We were hard lurker types, sonny. We became goons after a few months, and by God, we

liked

it.)

One more thing.

I'm just saying that if I WAS mafia, I would know that a no-lynch would be a useless ploy, and therefore would not use it.

Damn. The reasons

were

bullshit when they were placed, I swear.

[Ether]

Limited access.

Hi, Glork. Anything wrong?

igmeoy:Thesp

FoS: IH

Glork beat me to it. That was in IH's next post after Patrick's 174, and it's a bit too close for my liking.

I haven't the slightest idea what's up with Mgm. I don't like him, but I like IH less.

Nightfall, Andrew voted no-lynch. He then said he wasn't

actually

interested in a no-lynch, since those don't happen, anyway. From what I can tell,

this

is what the people jumping on him called WIFOM. I loathe the misrepresentative voters more than I loathe Andrew himself, and although Andrew has done little to help his position since then, the votes were already there. I believe I have been quite clear on this point.

(Patrick, you were only expect IH to nitpick? You're totally

ignoring

the so many other nitpicky people out there. DIE for your inconsistencies.)

[Ether]

You're sidestepping the question. Why would I seriously claim it, other than what I stated?

That's what Mgm at least attacked as WIFOM, and he was the first. I in no way believe that an attempt to get people arguing prevents the instigator from being scum--but a serious push for a no-lynch is as unlikely as Andrew said it was, and this is what was attacked.

Speaking of which, Mgm's posts give off a vibe of overwhelming stupid and I don't actually find them scummy. Hey, Thesp--what

was

your alternate theory?

unvote, vote: spectrumvoid.

You're avoiding saying anything noteworthy. Then again, neither was Zindy til someone noticed.

I'll be back on the MGMwagon in a sec, or maybe I won't.

This post is sketchy.

In other news, the Thesp-Glork axis gives me hives.

And hypocritical.

Fortunately, this crew doesn't have many sheep in it.

And untrue.

[Ether]

Speaking of which, Mgm's posts give off a vibe of overwhelming stupid and I don't actually find them scummy.

(Ye Gods. I sat on a bus for long minutes, aware that I had typed something I shouldn't have and not quite sure what I

had

typed. I'm very sorry.)

[Ether]

...Oh.

That works.

The second part was related to how you hopped the Voidwagon while attacking Glork's shtick, but getting the first part helps. The third part was a joke--though I do find the bandwagonness of the town creepy. (Are you all traitors except me? Um, I mean, oops.)

[Ether]

zzz.

Or Ether is going for an IH lynch for no reason again? = )

I resent this.

Seems pointless to stay on IH at this point.

unvote; vote: Nightfall

I really don't see any point whatsoever to his new posting style, and I probably still wouldn't if I was at the height of my mental health. A few paragraphs of personal opinion, please; I trust the filter for the rest. (I'm really not in the mood to read IH's post, either, but I suppose I'll have to. Voidie, thanks in advance.)

MBL: yeah. "Haven't the slightest idea" summed the first post up more accurately. Over two days (consecutive posts as a measure alone is silly; I'm a filthy shameless lurker), I thought about this and changed my mind. (*shrug*) What does "Hmm" imply?

She thought it was originally a null tell, but earlier she voted him for it? Please correct me if I'm wrong but

FoS:Ether

I voted him for backing down and getting all submissive when he took flak for it. I then unvoted because my fellow wagoners started getting

real

scummy.

"Can you expain how a vote for a confirmed innocent lynch eqautes to an actual confirmed innocent lynch? Seems harmless"

That's exactly how I see your argument.

Someone who votes for a confirmed innocent is obviously just fucking around; the confirmed innocent lynch would never actually get through. What's wrong?

So... you don't think that Andrew was scummy because town wouldn't go for a nolynch?

For that in particular, I do not. And the response to his vote was definitely a point in his favor.

(Aside from that, I don't really like Andrew's behavior and I'd hammer him at deadline if it came to it. There are a lot of wagoners, and I'm finding it hard to pick out the difference between scummy and stupid: IH's attack did help me with Mgm. I like the conspiracy theories on Andrew; if he makes it past today, I'll be more eager to lynch him if some of his theoretical partners come up scum.)

[Ether]

Hi. Overpriced British chocolate for everyone.

I'm basically aware of current events. I'm being nagged at this point to get to sleep, and the paragraphs here have been kind of blurring together even before that. I hate sinking to check-in posts...but, pfeh. Could this wait until what is technically later today? If Nightfall finishes his PBP, even better.

(Speaking of Nightfall, for those of you curious about my vote yesterday--I thought his post 403 was his big hyped-up post, and wasn't pleased. Eh.)

[Ether]

Aiyah. I have a bunch to rewrite by Monday that's been rewritten before and still isn't complete and may well never be adequate and gah, but then there's testing next week and I probably won't be getting anything additional for a bit.

Déjà vu? I disagree with Thesp's specific attack on Patrick, but I don't actually find that scummy with Thesp. It just reminds me of the false dilemma attacks he used in Newbie 289 and then No Pressure. The rabid pursuit and the call for a fast lynch yesterday...same. Not everything, but enough of it is either in-character or something I'm too empathetic with to bother him over.

Mgm is more scum than Thesp but less scum than Nightfall. Channel's somewhere up there if Nightfall and Mgm really can't provide leads, yeah, whatever. (Speaking of leads, Adele is meh; could somebody resummarize the Adele/Mgm connection?)

unvote, Vote: Ether

for as mentioned a few posts above, she seems a little too attached to Andrew with an aparant view that he cant really do wrong.

Scum will staunchly defend townies at time to make themselves look good. In fact, if Ether turns up scum, at this point, I'd be more inclined to believe that AndrewS is pro-town.

-Says that by his experience scum are less likely to defend partners as opposed to townies.

This I agree with and will admit that up until he posted it I hadn’t really given it a great deal of thought. It made me more thoughtful of why Ether would appear to be defending Andrew.

Not only were Nightfall's attacks on me stretchy, they were stretchy

from other people

. I don't see much in his PBPs, particularly the one on me. (Um, was I the only person expecting the EtherPBP to be his focus? He

was

voting me yesterday; I was disappointed there. The response to Glork was the only part I felt was relevant against me. Incidentally, I believe that Nightfall displayed a double-standard between my defense of Andrew and Patrick's. (Granted, IH's "few posts above" didn't mention Patrick, either.) Hmm, I'll have to look into that. Oh, and Nightfall might want to add a belated comment, too. Anyway, this paragraph is getting long. Let's just kill him.

vote: Nightfall

)

In contrast to my more recent posts, I must say that I am now finding Glork and Fritz less likely to be scum. With that being said, I don't entire agree with their views.

(Er...what

are

your views? I was typing this before you posted that, and don't really mind 699 in particular, but...I'm not entirely clear on who you're looking at.)

What points against me are we still interested in?

You may now stop reading. I don't find Nightfall's meBP to bring my alignment into play. That said, it's nitpicking time.

Ether appears to believe that Andrew's own claim that scum would not promote a no lynch of being enough to show that he is not scum. Why is she so eager to take Andrew's word and lash out against those that believe otherwise? She also doesn't appear to clearly understand the idea of WIFOM.

My WIFOM != your WIFOM. Andrew said, "I wouldn't

really

try for a no-lynch." Andrew did

not

explicitly say "I wouldn't do this if I were scum" until

after

he gathered the votes I so disliked. If I am mistaken, please provide a quote and a post number and I'll give a shameful apology.

Again results to personal attacks

(I'm very, very embarrassed about that and I'm not sure what came over me. Please don't bring this up again unless it is part of a case. Please?)

[Ether]

And here I am, whatever I said, making late and late-night posts without getting work (I still have it) done. Some things never change.

MBL: the false dilemma attacks were in other games; they connected people who remarked "he's either stupid or scum" to the well-known fallacy. Here and here are the two examples I've seen (especially the first one, where there's a big squabble over it later). I feel that his attack on Patrick is bullshit* (I'd strongly consider Patscum right now if Nightfall turns up scum, but that's unrelated

and Thesp is either stupid or the third scumbag for painting his case this badly

), but nonetheless along those lines. The singlemindedness is also, er, Thespian, judging by 289, although he did change his mind much, much later in the day. I'm empathetic over his hesitation after Andrew's role was revealed; I was stunned when IH came up town, and that was

without

a fully-fledged three-person conspiracy already on my mind. (Until Thesp's 710, I was under the impression that his Channelscum/MBLscum/Nightfallscum thoughts on Day 1 revolved almost entirely around AndrewScum. Right now I would like him to clear up how much of it did.) His behavior around the IHvig did bother me, but that was the worst of it.

"Meh" is "meh" is "I understand that there are pushes against Adele which you would probably like me to address and I do not have objections to these, but I do not have anything original to say on this subject and I find Mgm scummier if pairings are not brought into play." I understood the "agreement" statement (I did post shortly after Adele's clique remark) and was aiming for specific post numbers.

Please clarify what "significant effort" refers to if you want to know if I find it scummy in particular.

CES and Fritzler, I haven't even tried to read. Glork is probably town. MBL is probably probably town. Zindaras is probably probably probably town. (More "probablies" dilute it.) None of these people are particularly interesting to me (beyond the whole awesomeness-of-Zindie-and-Glork factor) or particularly in need of my interest, and my conscience has bothered me on worse matters than this paragraph.

To be clear then, I'm not pushing a case against MgM based on weird day one posts/not paying attention. As I said before, that wasn't terribly suspicious in my eyes.

Some ppl argue that scum are less likely to pay attention, but I'm not sure about that.

If it's a scum tell, it's a weak one at best.

Without the struck-through quote, he's answered the question of whether or not he thinks it's a scum tell. I don't think the addition of the struck through sentence, "Some ppl argue that scum are less likely to pay attention, but I'm not sure about that", is accidental - he's trying to add extra suspicion on Mgm. Why bother adding that sentence? He's already made his point.

Don't think for a second that speech is accidental.

*I feel that the knife case has the wrong focus. "Bloody knife" and "caught" are evidence in themselves;

they

draw attention, not the mention of the opinions of "some people." Popular opinion needn't be brought up there at all to raise a reader's eyebrow. You imply that you wouldn't have a problem with Patrick's statement if the struck-out sentence wasn't there, but he brings up Mgm's failure to pay attention elsewhere anyway, and that mention's not something that especially bothers me.

[Ether]

I'm not supposed to be online now. No, that's not really an excuse for yesterday. Or the day before. Or--pfeh, this is awkward.

Part of me wonders if maybe she's trying to cause a distraction of some kind so as to pull us away from this other debate.

Sadly, the real cause is just boredom: the position already seems to have a figurehead and a following, and coming in after it's all been said just makes me disinterested. Hmm, that wasn't very eloquent.

I'd be okay with an Adele/Mgm lynch, and I acknowledge the deadline. My to-do list is just sitting there calling to me to look again before this time, gah: in my memory there's still not much telling me why they're grouped together so much. I'll be

quite

interested to hear Glork elaborate on Adele/Patrick: my Nightfall/Patrick feelings make this very enticing. I don't like the vast majority of the reasons for a Thesplynch--I have explained why, although I don't think Thesp has answered my question--and I don't have substitute reasons. Outside of deadline concerns, I wouldn't support a Thesplynch.

what are you, a quitter?

Pretty much. I personally justify it with a "Let's see some more alignments first," but I suspect that this may be my procrastination instinct speaking.

Ether - I'm not sure how you've managed to link me to Nightfall. You claim he showed a double standard between my defence of Andrew and yours, even though several other people have apparently done the same thing. That suggests that there was actually a difference, and not a double standard being applied at all.

Except that they haven't. These others either poked at both of us or stated reasons which suggested this difference. If my memory's halfway decent, only Nightfall doesn't really bring you up, and he was one of my few Day 1

voters

.

-Says that he doesn’t like pats comment that a short time until deadline means that we need to decide which vote leader to lynch.

This coming after he just started a new bandwagon by rolling a pair of dice? Pat’s reasoning to me seemed much more based on reason. On the surface at least.

(

o.

O

I just realized that he calls Patrick "Pat" at some points, which I hadn't picked up on the first time I tried Find. Nightfall, you never really elaborate on this sentence and I'm not sure what you're insinuating with it.)

Ether's post 700: You don't find false-dilemma attacks scummy? O.o

(Um. Thesp attacked other people in other games in which he was town for irrelevant false dilemmas. What he did to Patrick was not a false dilemma or an accusation of a false dilemma, but I found the attack similarly not worth my time--and similarly Thespian. Understood?)

As for Nightfall, do you really see his significant efforts as scummy? I see sincerity of suspicion and uncertainty.

Please clarify what "significant effort" refers to if you want to know if I find it scummy in particular.

No, I'm serious! I'd love to sort this out.

[Ether]

Hmm. I'll probably hammer Thesp before I go to sleep. Parity, yeah, but I figure tonight's kill will say less than normal (unless Adele and Mgm are scum, but still). If we're gonna no-lynch, I'd rather do it later. Thesp's not my first choice, but we know that.

Thesp has been suspicious to, but I don't see him as scum with Adele or mgm, and the hop onto his wagon made me feel uneasy. I don't plan on switching my vote to Thesp at this point.

I don't feel like lynching Thesp.

The former quote was the last time you brought up your feelings on Thesp; could you elaborate?

I remember Adele and Glork commenting on your defence on him but not mine.

In pretty much every defense of AndrewS she seemed to slip in a backhanded dig at AndrewS, as if she were ready to turn on him if and when it were useful to her. As it is, she gets to be the stalwart defender of the innocent townie, but she also left the door open to hammer him, point out her ongoing low-level mistrust and say that she was going with the town's wishes. Or something. Anyway, it certainly is odd.

Adele had a reason that you weren't guilty of. (Checking back, I have no idea about Glork; for him I just assumed. Glork?)

she seems a little too attached to Andrew with an aparant view that he cant really do wrong.

Nightfall did not. Those reasons are complete opposites, and frankly, Adele's was better.

unvote; vote: Nightfall

I really don't see any point whatsoever to his new posting style, and I probably still wouldn't if I was at the height of my mental health. A few paragraphs of personal opinion, please; I trust the filter for the rest.

(Like I said, MBL, I thought the notes were the "big post" he had hyped up and wasn't pleased.)

Not only were Nightfall's attacks on me stretchy, they were stretchy

from other people

. I don't see much in his PBPs, particularly the one on me. (Um, was I the only person expecting the EtherPBP to be his focus? He

was

voting me yesterday; I was disappointed there. The response to Glork was the only part I felt was relevant against me. Incidentally, I believe that Nightfall displayed a double-standard between my defense of Andrew and Patrick's. (Granted, IH's "few posts above" didn't mention Patrick, either.) Hmm, I'll have to look into that. Oh, and Nightfall might want to add a belated comment, too. Anyway, this paragraph is getting long. Let's just kill him.

vote: Nightfall

)

I feel that (and what I quoted of him) stood alone fine.

I don't find the notes themselves especially practical--by the time he posted his opinions on the little actions of Adele through Glork, the notes were outdated. Between filters and memory, I don't think the notes took too much effort. The comments--they didn't go anywhere. He made criticisms, but they were buried and he didn't actually say, "I find this person more likely to be scum than these people." Many of the comments are nigh-irrelevant nitpickings,

especially

the ones on me. Yet he voted me. After the deadline, before Adele's claim.

Nightfall, "on the surface at least" is the part that bothers me. Please elaborate.

(I can answer #1. We have three power roles--now two. If Adele is a cop, there's one role left. Masons are a group.)

My meta towards her is still really screwed up.

Cool.

[Ether]

That's right, it's another "I'm free; I'm finally

free

" statement that'll be rendered obsolete in about 12 hours. I'm bitter.

I hope that makes more sense now.

Okay. It wasn't really saying anything about scumminess or opinion or anything interesting at all, then. Pfeh, I was getting my hopes up.

So, um, Ether... why no hammer before you went to bed?

Well, I definitely had the chance. I dimly remember staring at his posts two hours before deadline trying to remember why I had offered the hammer. These thoughts were based on how scummy I found him as opposed to the parity issues I'd spoken of when I said I'd hammer, and my Thespscum thoughts have never gone very far.

Ether, did you actually find AndrewS

scummy

for not expecting to be FoS'd?

I found him scummy for immediately shrinking back when he took flak for his vote.

I'd argue with the rest of the 880-on-me section of the PBP, but I think that clears up the '180' and your explicit questions and I think I'll start fuming if I ever have to place "Andrew" and "WIFOM" in the same sentence again.

Doesn't like MGM, but likes IH less. Reasons, Ether? Reasons are always nice.

My stance on Mgm was, "Um,

okay

." At the time, I was trying to decide whether Mgm was useless or outright sinister (something I haven't really come to a conclusion on, but the innocent helps). IH attacked Mgm, and I was under the impression that he initiated this. (Looking back, that's not completely true.) This implied that they were not together.

Sound reminiscent of D2 when she said she'd hammer Thesp? Hmm.

I do not understand the significance of this remark.

(Making them look FOSable in the process) Cause the way I see it, it's much more likely that you're scum and your scumpartners weren't willing to pile on.

The WIFOM is mostly based on my own actions and I'd really rather leave it to other people--but I find this counterintuitive.

Keeping your vote there wasn't helping in securing a

scum lynch

.

Vote:Patrick

for not using his vote to help secure a useful lynch (any lynch other than myself).

Hmm?

Interestingly enough, Zindie commits one of my favorite scumtells in 641, protecting CDB. Thesp accuses CDB of being lurkerscum. Zindie replies by wanting to look at other lurkers, too.

I find this intriguing, especially remembering Zindaras's statement on Patrick on Day 1. In general, I like the attacks on Zindaras. I'm bored.

FoS Thesp.

That is such a reaching argument. You're case against CDB is reaching and of roughly the same quality as your case against Andrew was. There's something not quite right about your play compared too times I've seen you as town.

No, seriously. You explicitly said here that Thesp was out of character, but your later statements have contradicted this. Please explain.

ether the 30 year old creepy guy?

*spits on Fritzler*

[Ether]

Well thank you for clearing that up yesterday so that someone else could move on it... or wait...that never happend? oh yeah...

Although I was not a big fan of a possible Thesp lynch,

Uh. What?

I have had trouble understanding her direction since around day 2 I think.

Sadly, so have I. ¬_¬

Glork. Fritzler's probably town, especially if Nightfall's scum. ("Fritzler's lurking." (Off the top of my head, Channel and Mgm congratulated him on the find.)) Even if not, he's not exactly on my priorities list.

Dammit, I wish Channel had put in a word about parity and no-lynching--that would have been telling, since a roleblocker is the one role we might have that would have

majorly

benefitted from a lynch yesterday. I'm still willing to be on his lynch; "roleblocker" doesn't really discourage it the way the other three possibilities would. I don't advocate a counterclaim.

MBL's probably town. Some of his conclusions have been bizarre, but he has points in my book for the constant questions. I typed an opinion on what he seems to have found, but I'd rather read more reactions to that first. (Personally, I don't think I've seen it. The rest of you?)

[Ether]

You implied that I said, "Back off, Thesp is mine" to trick the town into no-lynching, with malice aforethought. Then you said you were cool with a no-lynch anyway (and you did place what was only the second vote on me, after deadline announcement, pre-Adele claim). I don't get it.

[Ether]

BTW, because this is a game consisting of active players only, the punishment for lurking will be modkilling, not replacement.

Awkward.

Mgm, the problem with not lynching a claimed roleblocker is that it's a load of rhetoric. The chance that a roleblocker will leave a scratch, let alone net us an extra lynch, is pretty low. Counterclaims are out of the question: an unouted cop or deputy would be really helpful. So there's not really anything separating a suspicious claimed roleblocker from a suspicious claimed vanilla; if there's any doubt we have to Channel's alignment, he needs to swing.

(At this point, Channel looks screwed. I

don't

really expect a godfather to go this far on a limb to save a goon, as Mgm's arguments and sunken cost fallacy counterwagon would imply. I find those incomprehensible from either side, really; remind me to read something with Mgmscum.)

There hasn't been a SINGLE PBPA on CDB in the two weeks since my post indicating positivity of his scumminess.

Which...might have something to do with it. Remember that argument Glork used against Adele earlier? "Sheeping?" Scummy might be a bit much, but I don't think I'd ever find it particularly impressive. I regard your discovery as your domain.

Because I care about your mental health, however, I did take a second look at Channel's 869 to find an incriminating detail no one else brought up. (*shrug*) Channel hasn't liked Thesp; a look through his earlier posts makes that clear. But he doesn't really show any interest in Thespscum's implications, which quickly get controversial. (Worthless implications, those. Just sayin'.)

That's not the strongest point--Thesp and Glork did plenty--and I certainly hope it's not the same thing as what MBL found. (I doubt it. It doesn't really deal with pairings as MBL brought up, which is really the only part that I care about for its own sake. Hmm. Channel didn't mention Fritzler/Patrick/me until his much more recent, clearly screwed over post. I'm not too sure what to conclude from this, as it's pairing-based and I find Channel/Thesp ridiculously unlikely. MBL, "manipulative," you said?)

(I

think

I'd have been happier if someone else had shouted, "I see it! I see it!" I don't remember what I was looking for earlier.)

[Ether]

Hi. The below is not alphabetical. The numbers in between the names signify how far a leap they are, with 3 being "for serious, yo" and 1 being "but if I'm in an endgame with these people and they vote each other, I'll scream."

vote: Nightfall

: He's still scum. (I will acknowledge that the kill didn't look like Nightfall's doing at all, nor Channel's. Awesome. We should discuss at some point who wouldn't catch on to Fritzler so they can get town points. (This is where my train of thought fails me; I'm not sure who else wouldn't. It got by me, but I suppose that's not the answer you want to hear.))

3

Zindaras: Weak, compatible with Channel. Er...pretty much what other people said; if he's scum, I don't expect to take credit here.

2

ohoho, now wait a minute. Was that L-1 too close for comfort? Did I call your bluff on your bus attempt?

MBL: ...so he was trying to deflect the heat onto himself or what? I'm confused and I really don't see where any cop hints were.

2

CES: His Thesp fanaticism is getting in the

way

; otherwise, I'd hardly care. I won't touch CES in the near future unless Nightfall dies as town; Nightfall picked on him a few times in late Day 3 as Channel was dying and today.

1

Patrick: Like with CES, I want alignments first--Patrick voted Zindaras right off the bat today, and I'd rather kill Zindaras than Patrick. He's slightly below CES because my main concern was based on a pairing.

1

Mgm: Baffling. Okay--metagaming time. In Orient Express, he dropped the no-lynch voting Amb (it seems to be an Amb thing) only to support a policy lynch. I wasn't as thorough with games I didn't live, but he doesn't seem to back scumbuddies up to the ends of the Earth. I'm empathetic toward his Channel comment--I had similar misgivings by the time Andrew swung, although he was town--but...why Glork and MBL?

3

Thesp: Presumably half the likelihood of being scum of us nonMgms (I've never heard of godfather lightning rods). Handed us Channel. I didn't feel like he capitalized on my failure to hammer him (though if memory serves only two people (MBL and Mgm) were toting that, and if he's scum and therefore unnightkillable I don't really expect to outlive him).

1

Glork: He

cares

, and his agreement was in my perspective where the tables turned on Channel.

[Ether]

What I posted was a glorified List: the numbers spelled out how steep each step was.

The mental image of vanillaFritz dead and MBLscum having to explain himself today

then

is pretty messy, which is definitely a point in the latter's favor; also, I had the same Channelcop confusion in the first place as Glork did. I'm definitely not interested in Mgm's specific attack. Hmm--MBL, what did you think about Glork's attacks on Thesp earlier in his PBP?

(I should probably reiterate why I'm unhappy with Nightfall--but I never did get the hang of having a curfew and it's hit. My inner clock tends to say, "psst, you should probably start typing" at the point where my parents are fingering my cable disapprovingly.)

[Ether]

We know my position, I think: I'd be okay with a Zindilynch and oppose a CESlynch. A Nightfalllynch would be best because he's excuseless scum and we could then shut up about CES. (

Right...?

) Also, Mgm, this concept of "looking at Nightfall" is still hip and new for those of us who aren't Ether.

Anyway--I was typing what I remembered and then I was decabled again. Made this awesome sig-banner instead of doing my work, then eventually did the work anyway. Hi. Feel free to point out inaccuracies. Here we go.

Zindie posted his gut feelings. Um, CES confusing/townish/notopportunistic. No memory of Ether, but townish from memory. (:P No, I do understand.) Glork confusing/scummish. Mgm controversial/townish. MBL confusing/townish/isheaskingenoughquestions? Nightfall (*shrug*). I have no memory of what he said about Patrick (sorry). Thesp scum, with no "-ish" whatsoever. I kind of expect Zindie to lurkerhunt more, though that's more from his Discussion posts: I'll admit that I've only seen that in one game of his and it isn't over yet.

Thesp was particularly interested in Zindaras's comments on CES and MBL. He felt the notopportunistic part on CES had an "or

else

" edge (implying no CES/Zindaras).

CES told Thesp to be lenient on Zindaras; his posts weren't that bad.

I believe that this is the 1280 Mgm is talking about. Ether responded to Mgm's question about MBL. (Putting onself through an awkward let's-

not

-out-the-cop moment when one controls the nightkills doesn't sound likely, but did MBL seriously think Glork was a cop? MBL should give take on Glork's pushes on Thesp in semidefense of Channel in the early parts of the PBP.)

Still on probably1280, Ether brought up eight reasons of awesomeness for why you should all vote for Nightfall (and certainly not CES). You should still do so.

Glork asked CES his opinion of Nightfall. CES took a look, sort of agreed with Ether (Nightfall/Channel interactions), sort of didn't (townish PBPs). Asked Nightfall why he was voting him; said he might return the favor.

Thesp, ignoring the Nightfall business, yelled at CES for the Zindie defense.

Nightfall gave an awful irrelevant response to one point. He did not answer CES.

Glork clarified that the case on Nightfall was a Good Thing and asked Nightfall for elaboration on his CES-vote. Patrick agreed (clarifying that this was the first of Ether's attacks on Nightfall that he liked. I have my own trademark interjection for this sort of comment: "pfeh.").

Stoofer made a vote count. I believe it was identical to the one we still have; the only vote on Nightfallscum was still Ether. Shame on you.

'Scum went boom.

Ether then had a dream where she was poor and homeless and thirsty and all that. She was at a water fountain at a fast food place, but the water tasted funny. It turns out it wasn't water at all, but the corrupted form of an energy drink superheroes needed to keep their powers up. Nightfall was the supervillain who corrupted it. Just saying.

---

Also, here are the eight points for those of you who didn't see them the first time around.

All that did was bring up a huge number of WIFOM issues which truely could go either way.

-He reprimands AndrewS for something he himself admits is null. (I'm aware that this wasn't his only attack on AndrewS; it's still a superfluous way to discredit him.)

-My Day 1 vote on him was a misconception, but I still contend that the PBPs were overhyped.

On the topic of Fritz I must ask, why of all the talk about how I am "lurking" or "not bothering to post" and of how CDB is "attempting to make it look like he is contributing" why isn't more attention being given to the fact that Fritz too has contributed very little?

-(Glork's tell.)
(This is what Patrick responded to.)

-Also in 595, Nightfall adds a summary at the end of his Channel PBP--this format made it the odd one out. It gives him room to join a Channellynch if he feels like it, with a lot of thick disclaimers and doubt and exception.

Well thank you for clearing that up yesterday so that someone else could move on it... or wait...that never happend? oh yeah...

Although I was not a big fan of a possible Thesp lynch

I dont believe that I ever said I was cool with a no-lynch

"That was

so

premeditated. Ether should have announced that she wouldn't hammer Thesp so someone else could do it. By the way, I wouldn't have actually supported a Thesplynch (although I didn't defend him while he was in trouble)."
(This was the one point Nightfall mentioned, incidentally. He

just

mumbled something about my nonhammer implying Ether/Thesp, which he again didn't mention at the time.)

-Nothing on Channel on Day 3 except that he should post.

-Oh, and a question fishing for the chance to make an argument from fallacy.

-His attacks on CES started yesterday, actually--as Channel sank. If you are voting CES, you shouldn't be.

[Ether]

Ether "okay with a Zindilynch". Followed by a post with pretty much no analytical content about Zindy.

Town: All right, where were we?
Glork: Zindie or Nightfall dies.
Thesp: Or CES.
Glork: Or CES.
Patrick: Zindie.
Mgm: MBL, Glork or Patrick. (You people are

so

bandwagon.)
Patrick: Nuh-uh.
Ether: Zindie or Nightfall. No CES.

I'm aware that my defense here is "It was

convention

(and Zindie was in second place anyway)," but I'm not sure what the problem was.

on Ether: paints more vividly, alternatively attacking and defending. Points out "misunderstanding" by Ether twice and "don't know if this is scummy in itself". Appears to be genuinely trying to ascertain the nature of Ether's attacks.

Actually--this was what bothered me on Day 2, and I still find it valid. Nightfall agreed and disagreed with my actions, which is fine and good as a supplement but didn't in this case tie into my alignment.

Why is she so eager to take Andrew’s word and lash out against those that believe otherwise?

There's the

one point

that might imply something sinister was going on, and Nightfall didn't really follow up on it until a weak "You're right, Glork; scum

do

defend town sometimes!" in his GlorkPBP. I found it disturbing that this was the only point he had on the person at the top of his List.

Uh...regarding CES/Nightfall's argument, I should

hope

that this is the sort of town that would be concerned at least a little with someone wasting three days of its life on a towngoer and doing little else. I'm not saying you should lynch me if Nightfall's town, but it was stupid to hinge that debate around his personal opinion at all.

That considered, CES appeared to have promoted me since the Move--I was previously on his "maybe" list with only two other non-Nightfall people. 'Something happen?

I'd still be happiest killing Nightfall, as his recent posts have been purely emotional appeals: he has neither provided recent rationale/further scumhunting efforts nor addressed a single point against him without blatant misdirection. (1311 comes to mind, where MBL suggested he was worried about Glork's paragonal wrath and Nightfall said that he wouldn't have wanted Glorkscum to mislead him. There was also the bit deleted in the Move, where I paraphrased three of his quotes about the deadline no-lynch; he said only that it implied Ether/Thesp and never spoke of it again.)

There's nothing now that would make me revise my stance on Nightfall based on Zindaras's alignment or vice versa. A Zindiemodkill wouldn't bother me, but I don't see it as a reason to wait a day for the next lynch.

[Ether]

Ether hugs Zindaras, then carries his chair back to use as a footrest.

Sweet. I'll change my vote if an MBLlynch looks more likely. I'd still feel vaguely more

satisfied

if we lynched Nightfall first, but not enough to argue as long as he stays on the agenda. Mgm, care to join us or are you going to go find someone new to be a nonconformist over now? (If my "slip" really bothers you that much--remember IH's old signature? Yeah.)

I'm waiting for you to state your case against Zindaras, Mr. Sheepy McSheeperson.

I wanted to see your DEFENSE of Zindaras, because it was the only way we were going to get any useful info out of his inevitable modkill or lynch.

Glork's point on MBL's voting/tirade dichotomy also rings true. I agree with MBL that Glork's duelist attitude is over the top, but don't find it antitown because of Lights Out.

Why

is Nightfall town, if we're providing defenses first?

Is there a town tell on me or isn't there?

If he comes up scum and I'm dead, look into Nightfall, CES, Zindy and eventually MgM later in the game.

Why these people, who you didn't mention again and include Nightfall, specifically?

[Ether]

Could you order the players by how much scumhunting they're doing, with no ties?

Despite not being Glork, I asked some questions up there that you might want to field as well.

Furthermore, I would call both Ether and Patrick pro-town based on my metagame of them over the past several games I have played/watched involving them.

...pfeh. I suppose I shan't complain until you use a metagame

against

me.

[Ether]

What happens in ScumChat games

stays

in ScumChat games.

[Ether]

...

*safetyhugs Mgm*

Mad props to Crash, and I apologize profusely to everyone for my flake. (I got back in late July and went on to serve as a rantbuddy for Glork and Patrick. Just like the rest of ScumChat.)

Furthermore, I would call both Ether and Patrick pro-town based on my metagame of them over the past several games I have played/watched involving them.

I never

did

figure out where Glork could have gotten a metagame on me...

Stoofer, thanks not only for modding this but also for the peek into British culture. It is always important to make sure that there are no euphemisms from

anywhere

slipping past oneself. :P

Please don't describe vacations at the current moment, MBL. They have

horizontal rain

in Pittsburgh.