NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[ffullisade]

1. You're a hydra with her, like Majiffy before you. You *are* accountable for what she says and does just as she is. I am not playing with two slots, I am playing with two players in one slot. If one of you drops a scumtell and one of you drops a towntell then I don't have two different reads, I have one combined read. I vastly don't understand either your or Majiffy's desperate desire to distance from your ruddy other hydra head.

that is some fancy tiptapping you are doing right there, is there moar? what you are trying to paint as "distancing" is called M-E-D-I-A-T-I-O-N and is giving me space to answer what is directed to me. stop trying to paint our hydra dissonance as scummy cos that is not a scumtell and you know it. also my hair is ruddy not my role pm.

2. I know my reactions aren't scummy, unless it's scummy to point out lies and say 'oi!' nowadays. I'm pretty sure it isn't.

oh I know how this one goes down. where is the lie?

3. She finds me scummy for 'knowing my game' and calling things I'm doing scummy...as long as she squints and turns her head sideways to justify how she hasn't seen me doing the exact things she's calling scummy when I'm town. Which, y'know, is kind of a big deal that she's doing that.

I find you scummy cos you are doing scummy things. don't try to pretend otherwise.

[ffullisade]

^ above posts were mine

[ffullisade]

^mollie

[ArcAngel9]

I was right about RED RYU

Bcade you need to turn your Nacho obsession into something else. Stop expressing your crush on him here..
the next obvious scum is DESP

VOTE: Desp

if no one follows me onto nacho can we at least lynch AA9?

yeah right, no one is following you Bcade!!!!
you're shit!!!

I hate multiball...

VOTE: Thor

if you think Bcade is scum, why are you voting Thor Slaandar???

[Bacde]

yeah right, no one is following you Bcade!!!!
you're shit!!!

k

who is scum

if I'm so bad

[Slandaar]

Sland: WHy U find me scumz!?!
Thor: Well, it would be when you attacked Bulb for his read on Ceph while you also thought Ceph was scum, and your attack was basically 'your nullish scum read is weak'.
Sland: Quotes needed!!!

I am lazy I am not going to try and figure out what you are talking about and I don't remember everything I say.

What is wrong with it? Why can't I think they are both scum? it is not his conclusion that is the issue its the way he got there in the first place.

Anyways the point is simple; as Thor you have said it just means you disagree with my scumhunting as if I were scum I would be hunting the other team... so, what is your point? I do want an answer to this.

Also - good job addressing the Ffullsilade case as asked. Thanks for that. I know you're 'average' for yourself, but I don't recall question dodging and shoddy scared sidestepping as 'average' for you.
Mah bad!

You don't recall very well then.

They are town, I really don't have an answer for your 'case' but I don't need one town do things that don't make sense a lot of the time I can just tell they are town.

[Bacde]

ITT AA9 calls others bad at mafia

discuss

[Slandaar]

Mollie is basically saying the same thing as me

Thor is clearly pushing on our slots the most, yet he is voting someone entirely different and then has the audacity to suggest my push on him is slow.

He is scum.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm at work and haven't caught up with early day happenings but I am also a member of a neighborhood.

Do you mean one of those neighbourhoods that has a nightkill? Because that's called a scum-team.

Actually I'm going to claim now, because it could potentially put things in to an interesting light.
I am also in a neighbourhood with one other member. I'm not going to claim them yet, in case they don't want to be revealed. CTD's stance about their being two scum/town neighborhoods, one for each scumteam, did pique my interest. I've seen the like before, although in this case I think my neighbour is town. Would it make sense for two separate random neighbourhoods though, containing entirely town?

Its possible for them both to be town

Mastin isn't a mod I would try to outguess

IMO in your neighborhood you are more likely to be scum since you replaced Hanzo_5 and are white-knighting for your partner

I know that mastin isn't a mod to outguess, but I figured I didn't really lose anything from claiming.
I don't know what you are talking about in your last line.

Just to understand. There are three neighborhoods?

CrashTextDummie - Slandaar
ThAdmiral - ???
Desperado - ???

Reminds me:
What do people (not just KK, but KK can answer too) are the chances that at least one, if not two, of the neighborhoods are town-scum neighborhoods? I personally would say the chances are pretty good.

I would agree. I think there is at least 1, probably 2 scums in the neighbourhoods.
At the same time it is probably not efficient to take potshots at random neighbors hoping to hit "teh scumz". But it's something to keep in mind for the future, especially in regards to hunting by poe.

I don't buy the vig claim either.

[Thor665]

1. Nope. I don't think she's lying.

And I don't see how you get that from what I've said

.

I said she was lying - I said that you were aware she was playing poorly.
But good use of the bold tag to refute something I didn't say while complaining that I said something you didn't say.
:shrug:

As far as tunnelling, where?

Me.
What other agenda has she advanced today?
Take your time, I'll wait for you to count them up.
Oh...right...none, so...y'know - tunneling. This isn't rocket science. it's Mafia.

When she and I synch up today, my ISO impressions will be on the agenda.

I await with baited breath.

I didn't dodge you. I said if I missed something you asked it was probably cos majiffy was telling me to leave you alone.

While...having as your strategy *not to discuss things with me*.
I don't see how these two stories mesh.
Explain?

where is your vote? not on us iirc and it wasn't on us yesterday either.

Wait...I *wasn't* voting you yesterday?
...since when?
Because according to the Mod I was, and according to my memory I was, and according to you complaining that I voted you yesterday I was...so...whut?

so if we are such a strong scumread then why no vote? why are you sheeping cephrir over one of your top scumreads? <-----this does not add up

Are you serious? Because that blatantly adds up and is a normal occurrence.

that is some fancy tiptapping you are doing right there, is there moar? what you are trying to paint as "distancing" is called M-E-D-I-A-T-I-O-N and is giving me space to answer what is directed to me. stop trying to paint our hydra dissonance as scummy cos that is not a scumtell and you know it. also my hair is ruddy not my role pm.

1. Okay, so you guys are m-e-d-i-a-t-i-n-g and thus *are* discussing reads with each other and thus *should* be able to answer me when I ask one of you what's up with the other? Because that's what I'm doing.

2. Point to me calling you on dissonance. I have never once had an issue with you having two different reads. I have very much had issue with you having different stories, and moreso have mostly had that only with one head self-contained from the other. If you are using 'dissonance' to mean 'has issues with head A telling one version of how things happened and Head B having a different story' then *yes* I am calling you on dissonance, and am quite willing to back that play. But that is not the normal 'hydra dissonance' issue most people have, so I want to clarify that.

oh I know how this one goes down. where is the lie?

We are actively discussing it currently, and I've hardly been shy about mentioning it - the issue of your question dodging and the reasons behind it. You have provided two different responses and both do not seem able to be true concurrently - therefore one is a lie and you are making answers up to defend yourself, and therefore are not town, and are scum.
That's how the tell works.

I find you scummy cos you are doing scummy things. don't try to pretend otherwise.

You find me scummy for doing things that are;
1. Not scummy.
and
2. Even if we want to live in a universe where we decide they are scummy - I blatantly do them as town and defend them as normal, so they are null tells even then, and worse off you should be well aware I do them as town since you've seen me do this exact sort of thing before.

Don't try to pretend otherwise.

I am lazy I am not going to try and figure out what you are talking about and I don't remember everything I say.

What is wrong with it? Why can't I think they are both scum? it is not his conclusion that is the issue its the way he got there in the first place.

How was how he reached a conclusion of 'null leaning slight scum' an issue to you? You made a lot of noise on the issue, but I failed to see his scum agenda there.
Clarify?

Anyways the point is simple; as Thor you have said it just means you disagree with my scumhunting as if I were scum I would be hunting the other team... so, what is your point? I do want an answer to this.

I still don't feel you're making this question easy to understand. I'm going to translate it and then answer. You need more comma use, I think.

Your point is Thor has said he disagrees with your scumhunting. But you are saying, if you were scum, you'd be hunting the other team, so what is my point?

My point is - you don't look like scum hunting the other team, you look like a player lazily hunting lynches. That's scummy. Sure, I suppose we can make the argument that, as scum, you should be hunting the other team, but even if that holds out then as town you should be hunting...y'know, anything. Lack of hunting and attacks that seem opportunistic are the issue, and I don't see how the theory scum you hunting for another team should disprove that due to your overall style at the moment.

Did that correctly assess your point and answer it?

They are town, I really don't have an answer for your 'case' but I don't need one town do things that don't make sense a lot of the time I can just tell they are town.

So...just 'gut' then?
Why doesn't your gut have an answer to my case?
Do you think Mollie lied? Y/N
Then, with regards to that answer, why do you think she did what she did as town?

Thor is clearly pushing on our slots the most, yet he is voting someone entirely different and then has the audacity to suggest my push on him is slow.

Your push on me is slow.
I don't think you can justify my push on Mollie as slow without putting a lot of egg on your face.
I have agreed my push on you is slow...but don't see how that is an issue.
And, what is wrong with my current vote? Are you saying I have to constantly vote Mollie regardless of what else is happening because I'm sure she's scum and no one else is? Explain that thought more.

[Thor665]

@Slandaar
@Mollie

Also, both of you have played with me enough, I suspect, to hear my rants about how useless one vote wagons are.
So...y'know, both of you can clarify why this is scummy of me some more. I'd love to hear it.

[ffullisade]

While...having as your strategy *not to discuss things with me*.
I don't see how these two stories mesh.
Explain?

I suppose if you want to twist "majiffy asked me to leave you alone so I did" into a "strategy" to not discuss things with you okay well then. I guess you were able to discern my supposed intent. where are you going to go with that?

Wait...I *wasn't* voting you yesterday?
...since when?
Because according to the Mod I was, and according to my memory I was, and according to you complaining that I voted you yesterday I was...so...whut?

your vote landed on os.

Are you serious? Because that blatantly adds up and is a normal occurrence.

this. so much of this. walk me through the process where sheeping someone whom you were suspicious of during the prior day and haven't given out a town read on should take precedence over your own strong scum read is a normal occurrence. cos I am just not seeing it.

1. Okay, so you guys are m-e-d-i-a-t-i-n-g and thus *are* discussing reads with each other and thus *should* be able to answer me when I ask one of you what's up with the other? Because that's what I'm doing.

2. Point to me calling you on dissonance. I have never once had an issue with you having two different reads. I have very much had issue with you having different stories, and moreso have mostly had that only with one head self-contained from the other. If you are using 'dissonance' to mean 'has issues with head A telling one version of how things happened and Head B having a different story' then *yes* I am calling you on dissonance, and am quite willing to back that play. But that is not the normal 'hydra dissonance' issue most people have, so I want to clarify that.

okay

We are actively discussing it currently, and I've hardly been shy about mentioning it - the issue of your question dodging and the reasons behind it. You have provided two different responses and both do not seem able to be true concurrently - therefore one is a lie and you are making answers up to defend yourself, and therefore are not town, and are scum.
That's how the tell works.

no. and more no. but let us walk through the responses that you think you are reading and how they are completely different and therefore could not be congruent with each other. what is bugging me and is making me really sticky with my fos on you is that you have replaced into a game for me before and know my responses don't always make sense to most people. that you are not town reading me is bothering me especially since it is based on weird reasoning; it is why I am not reading you as town.

You find me scummy for doing things that are;
1. Not scummy.
and
2. Even if we want to live in a universe where we decide they are scummy - I blatantly do them as town and defend them as normal, so they are null tells even then, and worse off you should be well aware I do them as town since you've seen me do this exact sort of thing before.

I have not seen you be super dumb and trolleytrack on town before, no. I have seen you parry, sidestep and do other things but not trolleytrack in a way that left you indefensible. so tell me why what you are doing is not scummy.

Don't try to pretend otherwise.

see this is where I wonder if you honestly think I am on the opposite scum team as you cos of the winky face. I am not scum and you will get no cred with our lynch if that is what you are angling for. cos we are town.

[Thor665]

I suppose if you want to twist "majiffy asked me to leave you alone so I did" into a "strategy" to not discuss things with you okay well then. I guess you were able to discern my supposed intent. where are you going to go with that?

I was actually just using your own answer, when you said that *was* your strategy - or are we now claiming I misunderstood when you said that?

Wait...I *wasn't* voting you yesterday?
...since when?
Because according to the Mod I was, and according to my memory I was, and according to you complaining that I voted you yesterday I was...so...whut?

your vote landed on os.

No...according to my memory, and the mod vote counts, my vote landed on Red Ryu...y'know, a scum player. And not on OS, whom i called town, and he was.
I also voted you.
So, now that we've proven that your read on me is based, at least partially, off two totally not true things...are you still scum reading me for this?

this. so much of this. walk me through the process where sheeping someone whom you were suspicious of during the prior day and haven't given out a town read on should take precedence over your own strong scum read is a normal occurrence. cos I am just not seeing it.

Explain how it's pro-scum play?
Maybe I consider Cephir's push on Red Ryu to make him look more town in retrospect?
Maybe I'm curious to get a read on Haylen, a player I've admitted to having not read any of and who replaced into a rather blatant null/lurker slot?
Maybe I just want to start the push on a wagon to see what reactions I get to it.

Y'know, the usual *totally insane* things that no town would do, because it is so blatantly scummy play.

okay

I'll at least admit your quick back off of at least this misrep attack on me is a nice moment - it's a shame it took you this long and you are still glomming onto so much of the rest, while not bothering to analyze for yourself the value of your read on me considering how you're clearly using wrong info, conclusions, and thoughts.

no. and more no. but let us walk through the responses that you think you are reading and how they are completely different and therefore could not be congruent with each other.

Yes, and more yes (man, this is easy to counter with)
Here is the conversation as I understand it;

Thor: U iz dodgin' scum-gal!
Mollie: Dodgin' whut na0w?
Thor: Dodgin' mah queshtins!
Mollie: I am answered all ur kweshtins! Link to ones I not!
Thor: (giant honkin' wall of links)
Mollie: Oh...well...uh..y'see, I was *intentionally* not answerin'...cause...u scumz...wit scary mind powah and u eat me aliive in werd war!
Thor: ...den Y U say U answerin' if U *plannin' not answer? Why not just say 'I plannin' not answer!
Mollie: ... ...whut?
Thor: That is a lie, only one be true, can't coexist.
Mollie: Nuh-uh!
Thor: Yes.
Mollie: Y no coexist?

And now we're here.
Here's the point - you have answered a lot of my questions with dodges. You have supplied a number of reasons for those dodges. Here's a quick list in (I believe) chronological order.
1. You were ignoring me.
2. Majiffy told you to back off of me.
3. You think you answered everything, but I should re-ask the ones you didn't answer...but you answered them all.
4. You were intentionally not answering me because that's some sort of anti-Thorscum strategy for you...even though it is a strategy you used as scum against town Thor in Audio mafia.

3 and 4 don't gel very well. If you were intentionally not answering me about stuff, why would you act confused and want links to questions I had asked you? After all - you *know* you haven't answered things. That's the ENTIRE POINT OF WHAT YOU WERE DOING. Like, that's the goal you were going for, to not answer things. So why act confused by me taking issue with you not answering things?

That suggests that either 3 or 4 is a lie.
If either of them are a lie then I think you're scum, because town you being honest about 4 wouldn't have said 3, and town you being honest about 3 wouldn't have tried to dodge again.

And that's the lie
And that's why they don't mesh together.
But, please, tell me what I'm missing here.

what is bugging me and is making me really sticky with my fos on you is that you have replaced into a game for me before and know my responses don't always make sense to most people. that you are not town reading me is bothering me especially since it is based on weird reasoning; it is why I am not reading you as town.

So you're not reading me as town because I suspect you because you have bad logic...when I HAVE CAUGHT YOU AS SCUM BECAUSE OF YOUR BAD LOGIC IN THE PAST.
Yeah...tell me more.

I have not seen you be super dumb and trolleytrack on town before, no.

Are you kidding me?
Remember Audio Mafia.
REMEMBER AUDIO MAFIA - I TRAINED YOU WITH A DIESEL ENGINE OF PURE TRAIN POWER STRAIGHT THROUGH THE HEART.
You are, functionally, committing the scumtell you're attributing to me now. Fake awareness of meta.
Except I actually have a reason not to take 'lack of logic' as a town tell from you.
And I also have a reason to take 'dodging and trying to avoid around things' as a scumtell from you.
What have you got?
Scum.

see this is where I wonder if you honestly think I am on the opposite scum team as you cos of the winky face. I am not scum and you will get no cred with our lynch if that is what you are angling for. cos we are town.

Yeah, me and my scumbuddies got you via PoE, soon the rest of town will sheep me and I'll be in the winner's circle for sure.

[ffullisade]

@Slandaar
@Mollie

Also, both of you have played with me enough, I suspect, to hear my rants about how useless one vote wagons are.
So...y'know, both of you can clarify why this is scummy of me some more. I'd love to hear it.

actually I have never heard this particular rant

[Thor665]

That cuts the entire series of points I made to the core and totally invalidates everything I mentioned.
Brilliant work.

[Thor665]

Heck, you still didn't even manage to *generically* describe why what I'm doing is scummy.

[Bacde]

pretty sure mollie is town

[Nero Cain]

its scum. Even if the color is green, its still scum.

[Nero Cain]

I have a question Bulb. I'm obviously a scum read for you since I "deflected" a question. Yesterday, I had felt that AK laid down a pretty opportunistic vote and she goes all "hey look at Bacde's vote!!!"

Why is my deflect scummy but hers isn't?

Also, the guy (KK) who asked me the question that I "deflected" doesn't even think I was deflecting. What do you think about that?

[Cephrir]

We interrupt these quote walls (where, incidentally, Thor is winning by leagues) to bring you a quick mostly-off-the-top-of-my-head reads list. I can explain as necessary.

Town

Bacde
Kublai Khan
Nacho = Om^
Bulba
CTD

Leaning town

Thor^
thezmon
Eddie = Nero*
AA9
PV (DLG)

Null

Thadmiral
Seanald
AK*

Lean scum

PA
Desperado^
Slandaar^

Scum

ffullisade
Haylen^

* = plan to examine in greater depth, feel like my opinions are outdated
^ = on my connections-with-bluescum list

[Bacde]

ugh this is dumb everyones reads are different how is this game supposed to work

[ffullisade]

I was actually just using your own answer, when you said that *was* your strategy - or are we now claiming I misunderstood when you said that?

no. what I am saying is that you are using certain words to ascribe an intention that I don't have. that is what I am saying

No...according to my memory, and the mod vote counts, my vote landed on Red Ryu...y'know, a scum player. And not on OS, whom i called town, and he was.
I also voted you.
So, now that we've proven that your read on me is based, at least partially, off two totally not true things...are you still scum reading me for this?

not for that

Explain how it's pro-scum play?

I thought I did.

Maybe I consider Cephir's push on Red Ryu to make him look more town in retrospect?
Maybe I'm curious to get a read on Haylen, a player I've admitted to having not read any of and who replaced into a rather blatant null/lurker slot?
Maybe I just want to start the push on a wagon to see what reactions I get to it.

okay. or *maybe* you are just scum. *maybe* it really is that simple.

Y'know, the usual *totally insane* things that no town would do, because it is so blatantly scummy play.

I'll at least admit your quick back off of at least this misrep attack on me is a nice moment - it's a shame it took you this long and you are still glomming onto so much of the rest, while not bothering to analyze for yourself the value of your read on me considering how you're clearly using wrong info, conclusions, and thoughts.

I think sometimes we can arrive at the right conclusions by following an incorrect internal process and have the process totally be wrong but still be right in the results that we draw.

are we going to argue about how mafia is a rational game now

Yes, and more yes (man, this is easy to counter with)
Here is the conversation as I understand it;

Thor: U iz dodgin' scum-gal!
Mollie: Dodgin' whut na0w?
Thor: Dodgin' mah queshtins!
Mollie: I am answered all ur kweshtins! Link to ones I not!
Thor: (giant honkin' wall of links)
Mollie: Oh...well...uh..y'see, I was *intentionally* not answerin'...cause...u scumz...wit scary mind powah and u eat me aliive in werd war!
Thor: ...den Y U say U answerin' if U *plannin' not answer? Why not just say 'I plannin' not answer!
Mollie: ... ...whut?
Thor: That is a lie, only one be true, can't coexist.
Mollie: Nuh-uh!
Thor: Yes.
Mollie: Y no coexist?

And now we're here.

okay

Here's the point - you have answered a lot of my questions with dodges. You have supplied a number of reasons for those dodges. Here's a quick list in (I believe) chronological order.
1. You were ignoring me.
2. Majiffy told you to back off of me.
3. You think you answered everything, but I should re-ask the ones you didn't answer...but you answered them all.
4. You were intentionally not answering me because that's some sort of anti-Thorscum strategy for you...even though it is a strategy you used as scum against town Thor in Audio mafia.

2 precludes 1

I think you should ask the ones you

feel

like I didn't answer, cos I

feel

like I answered them all.

I didn't ignore you in audio mafia what are you even talking about here. one minute you are saying that I WAS ALL OVER YOU and the next you are saying that I ignored you wth

3 and 4 don't gel very well. If you were intentionally not answering me about stuff, why would you act confused and want links to questions I had asked you? After all - you *know* you haven't answered things. That's the ENTIRE POINT OF WHAT YOU WERE DOING. Like, that's the goal you were going for, to not answer things. So why act confused by me taking issue with you not answering things?

I didn't want links I wanted you to restate your questions. and I think I *did* answer your questions you are the one who keeps pushing this dumb agenda. you know who pushes dumb agendas it is scum that is who

That suggests that either 3 or 4 is a lie.
If either of them are a lie then I think you're scum, because town you being honest about 4 wouldn't have said 3, and town you being honest about 3 wouldn't have tried to dodge again.

except I didn't dodge.

And that's the lie
And that's why they don't mesh together.
But, please, tell me what I'm missing here.

that it does not qualify as a lie.

So you're not reading me as town because I suspect you because you have bad logic...when I HAVE CAUGHT YOU AS SCUM BECAUSE OF YOUR BAD LOGIC IN THE PAST.
Yeah...tell me more.

cos you have had to defend my bad logic

Are you kidding me?
Remember Audio Mafia.
REMEMBER AUDIO MAFIA - I TRAINED YOU WITH A DIESEL ENGINE OF PURE TRAIN POWER STRAIGHT THROUGH THE HEART.

You are, functionally, committing the scumtell you're attributing to me now. Fake awareness of meta.
Except I actually have a reason not to take 'lack of logic' as a town tell from you.

And I also have a reason to take 'dodging and trying to avoid around things' as a scumtell from you.
What have you got?
Scum.

wrt the bold: there is a disconnect here. I didn't target you in audio for meta reasons, never went after you for them so what in the world are you even talking about

[ffullisade]

VOTE: thor

[Slandaar]

How was how he reached a conclusion of 'null leaning slight scum' an issue to you? You made a lot of noise on the issue, but I failed to see his scum agenda there.
Clarify?

Well lets start from the beginning of my post shall we;

How is saying someone doesn't have experience playing with some of the more prominent players in the game useful? is it scumhunting? clearly not; so why is it in his thought process?

I will even make this simple for you Thor! Multiple choice question! I am such a nice guy!

A) He is saying pointless things to look like he is scumhunting and putting in effort
B) Well I am Thor here is a long rant as to why this makes complete sense!

My point is - you don't look like scum hunting the other team, you look like a player lazily hunting lynches. That's scummy. Sure, I suppose we can make the argument that, as scum, you should be hunting the other team, but even if that holds out then as town you should be hunting...y'know, anything.

So, you're point regarding this one post is a generic blanket statement about your new opinion on my play to date?

Good deflection.

What we were talking about Thor if you need reminding is thus;
Thor: this post is bad
Sland: why?
Thor: bad scumhunting
Sland: Well If I were scum it is still legit scumhunting to me
Thor: WHAT? NO! MY POINT IS THAT YOU SHOULD BE SCUMHUNTING ANYTHING!!!

Lack of hunting and attacks that seem opportunistic are the issue, and I don't see how the theory scum you hunting for another team should disprove that due to your overall style at the moment.

I have taken this part from the rest because it doesn't fit there; Why is it you didn't say this previously?

Do go on about how my attacks have been opportunistic.

So...just 'gut' then?
Why doesn't your gut have an answer to my case?
Do you think Mollie lied? Y/N
Then, with regards to that answer, why do you think she did what she did as town?

Not really gut no.

You have played with me enough Thor you must have heard one of my many townread rants before so I won't go on. How is this scummy of me? I'd love to here why.

Your push on me is slow.

Its all relative; If you believe my push on my top scumread is slow when every post for the last 50 of mine have been trying to lynch you then your push on myself what is that? what is your push on mollie hydra?

I don't think you can justify my push on Mollie as slow without putting a lot of egg on your face.

Slower than mine on you and that is the point as you know.

And, what is wrong with my current vote? Are you saying I have to constantly vote Mollie regardless of what else is happening because I'm sure she's scum and no one else is? Explain that thought more.

You have continually avoided the big issue by voting someone else.

If you want to start a wagon on someone you must vote them otherwise why would anyone else? It is the start of day not like deadlines are a concern at all.

Also, both of you have played with me enough, I suspect, to hear my rants about how useless one vote wagons are.

Nope not heard.

So, Thor lets go back to yesterday;

Why have you still not asked me why I decided to vote Desperado? Is that not a very big question for you if you wanted to discern my alignment? For something you made such a big issue over one would think you would ask why I voted him not just try to suggest voting Desperado is scummy.

Do go on though about how voting Desperado with you is scummy when you thought he is scum.

[EddieFenix]

ugh this is dumb everyones reads are different how is this game supposed to work

simple. We pick, dig, and watch the pattern of people for slips and what not.