Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[AndrewS]

Vote: ChannelDelibirt

because I've always wondered what his username meant.

[AndrewS]

Vote: ChannelDelibird

because I've always wondered what his username meant.

[AndrewS]

Alright...Looking at it like this - it's been several days now and we're not out of the random vote stage. I know that with this strong of a group of players, nobody is going to make an idiodic mistake and make a scum tell this early. Ergo, our lynch will practically be random. This gives us a 1 in 5 chance of killing mafia. 4 in 5 of lynching town. Not the greatest odds. Perhaps we should

Unvote, vote: No Lynch

for now, and look at the game fresh in the morning, unless anyone has any more constructive ideas.

[AndrewS]

Very well.

Unvote

I suppose that I just thought that since we'd been playing a while and still were randomly voting that we weren't getting anywhere. If the town thinks that we can lynch mafia today, though, I'm all for it.

[AndrewS]

I'm not a newbie. I was just getting frustrated with the fact that it had been 2 full days and we were no closer to finding anything out than normal. Yes, I understand that random votes are a normal part of the game, but I also understand that it occurs until someone slips up and says something stupid. In an invitational, I assumed that nobody would be so stupid to do such. Apparently I was wrong.

[AndrewS]

Alright, alright...Guess I'll explain. I voted no lynch and said that in order to get peoples' reactions. Many times, by doing or saying something unexpected, you can learn a lot from simple reactions...And while I haven't gotten anything concrete from it, I do believe that I have sort of a feel for who to watch for. Not enough for a vote, mind you, just sort of a feeling for it.

[AndrewS]

CES: Explain why my little plan wouldn't work, and/or is a scummy idea. I've played in a good number of games on this site, and I've never seen the mafia successfully go no lynch in any of the games that I've been in. For that matter, I've never actually seen the mafia attempt to go no lynch(except in newbie games). Ergo, why would I actually attempt it, other than the idea that I have presented? As for what information I gathered, I was hoping to see who was lynch-hungry. As it is, several were. The only of those that I feel were particularly scummy was Adele - it's quite common for a mafia to vote, and then to state a rule, nothing else. As for her reasoning that I should have thought of something that wouldn't hurt the town if it was taken up, with this group of players, it's rather obvious that the town would NOT take me up on it. Therefore, I think that the town's best move at this point is:

Unvote, Vote: Adele

[AndrewS]

You're sidestepping the question. Why would I seriously claim it, other than what I stated?

[AndrewS]

FOS: CES

You don't care about my intention? That seems rather interesting to me. If I were to use this as a godfather, that would be an incredibly silly move. As for the reactions that I've gotten, it has sparked discussion and led me to suspect Adele. I was hoping for more, but I can only work on what I am given after making the move.

[AndrewS]

Unvote, Vote: CES

You don't care about my intentions you keep saying to lynch me, "Because it'll be fun", and you've been avoiding my questions.

[AndrewS]

Think what you will....It's your decision. As for Thesp's question, no, I couldn't tell as easily who was willing to jump quickly. Random voting patterns are impossible to discern information from. This was simply my attempt to bring out information on day 1 rather than lynching randomly. If I'm lynched for it, then so be it.

[AndrewS]

MGM, read the game - he was parodying me....

[AndrewS]

I don't really understand what you're saying here. I said that obviously Andrew wouldn't be able to persuade the town to no lynch because it's a bad idea.

He knows that now. He didn't know that when he proposed it. How does this make him more town? Same with the speed of the wagon. How does that make him more town?

Oh, come now. Just because I've only played a few games on here recently doesn't mean that I'm inexperienced. I knew when posting that nobody would take me up on it. I started playing here back in 2004, but took a bit of a hiatus during 2006. I know how the game's played.

[AndrewS]

I'm just saying that if I WAS mafia, I would know that a no-lynch would be a useless ploy, and therefore would not use it. I've played with most people here and know that they rarely go no-lynch. It doesn't make me more town - but it doesn't make me scum either. As for the speed of the bandwagon, those were the reactions that I was looking to get. I wanted to see who was going to try to inconspicuously hop on, or push for an early "sure lynch".

[AndrewS]

Thesp - considering that I know that I am town beyond the shadow of a doubt, is that not a logical suggestion for me to make? While it may not be that convincing if I am not a given, I am simply trying to explain my thought processes.

[AndrewS]

No, I am saying that from my viewpoint I believe many of the ones voting me to be scum because I find their logic and arguments spurious. Take CES, for example. He has justified his votes 4 times now by saying "Lynch X, it'll be fun!". These were not just in the random votes stage. Now, of course, this would look different to someone who was NOT convinced of my innocence. I admit that. If someone were to attack you (assuming you are town), you would find their arguments to be illogical as well.

[AndrewS]

Reply edit: Sorry, it was only twice - I'm getting my games confused. He's done it more in another game that I'm in with him. Regardless, though, it's not the best argument, nor should it be the only thing posted with a vote.

[AndrewS]

It was the only thing you posted along with your vote. While it may be non-serious, it was still suggesting that others hop on.

[AndrewS]

If anyone has any questions that I can answer, I would be more than willing to. Otherwise, I have posted my story, everything that I know to post. When I'm lynched and turn up town, you all might want to do some serious reconsideration of a few people.

[AndrewS]

Certainly. CES, Adele and Thesp.

[AndrewS]

Thesp: You have a problem in your logic: You assume that my intentions follow my vote, and that I intended for the town to go no lynch. I did not. I did want to see reactions. As such, we have more information now than we would have normally for a day 1 lynch. It won't be

entirely

random. That was my goal, really. But, no, I never truly intended the town to go no lynch.

[AndrewS]

Thesp, I could say the same about you. If I was scum, and I knew that I wouldn't be able to convince town to go no lynch, what would I profit from suggesting it? If you accept the fact that I did not expect the town to go no lynch, you must logically assume that I had another reason for voting it. What do you suppose that reason was? Saying it is because I am mafia makes no sense, because if I do not expect the town to go no lynch, and it does not, it merely makes me a target. Saying it was to attract attention to myself then clear myself is absolutely ludicrous. There is no defensible way that you can say that you thought that I didn't believe the town would go no lynch yet am still mafia.

[AndrewS]

Oh, and on a side note...

Unvote, Vote: MGM

Read the game. As it is, you're not making any sense whatsoever.

[AndrewS]

I already told you!

Read the game!

My reasons for my initial no lynch vote are outlined there.

[AndrewS]

Mgm: Voting no lynch is something spectacular that everybody would notice. Voting a player without any logical reasoning is more akin to a random vote, which is day 1 norm. Day 1 lynches are generally randomish due to scant lack of evidence. Day 1 lynches are almost always randomish when a game is full of experienced and non-idiot players. I wanted to avoid that.

[AndrewS]

Regarding my vote on MGM, it's a prod to read the game more than anything. I will remove it on one of 3 conditions: 1) MGM starts reading the game and posting intelligently, 2) A better lynch candidate comes up or 3) There are enough votes to put him in danger for irrational reasons.

[AndrewS]

MGM: If I missed your question, then I apologize, but your posts have been way out in left field. You are the ONLY person who thought that Glork wasn't joking. You back off after being told to read the game, and then you attack again as if nothing ever happened. Reading his posts in context would have told you that he obviously didn't mean it. Your other posts show a general lack of knowledge. Now, I suspect that you're probably town - but you're doing us and yourself a disservice by not reading the full game and paying attention.

[AndrewS]

The town's bandwagoning based on a random number that Glork pulled up? Admittedly, SV looks somewhat scummy anyway, but I'm not convinced that she's the right lynch just let. Let me reread and post later today...

[AndrewS]

Well, I reread. It didn't help me a great deal. I'm rather suspicious of Glork's play as of late, but that could be just trademark Glorkish behavior. SV does seem scummy, but I am nervous about the way that a bandwagon seemed to just spring up against her in about 10 minutes. IH does seem scummy as well, but I think less so than Glork and SV. Therefore, I suggest we discuss a bit further before commiting ourselves to a lynch.

[AndrewS]

SV: I think that you are scummy because you've been with each bandwagon except your own. I think that Glork is scummy because he's been with each bandwagon. I suspect IH less because he's been opposed to the latest bandwagon. I think that the whole town is being far too reactionary, and at this rate, we're just playing follow the leader. In a game where a guy can roll a dice and honestly get a bandwagon started that way, we have some major problems.

[AndrewS]

MGM, nobody thought that Glork was serious. Nobody other than you. This shows that you weren't reading the game. That is why I was voting for you. There is no rationalization for lynching a player over a joke. I don't believe that you're being stupid per se, rather that you're not paying as much attention as you could be. That is the real problem. That being said, it's simpler for you to just start reading the game more carefully and to go on, rather than try to backtrack over a mistake you made.

[AndrewS]

Thesp: As I explained when I made it, it was a prod to start reading the game. Since then, I've been holding my vote in case I needed to hammer in order to beat a deadline.

[AndrewS]

SV: Placing the last vote would be bad for me regardless: If the lynched was scum, it would look like bussing. If the lynched was town, it would be me trying to get rid of townies. I just want to make sure that we do lynch someone before the deadline.

[AndrewS]

You say that too much. Most of your posts have been saying that you'll post something significant tomorrow. It's getting annoying.

[AndrewS]

Bad logic there, Glork.

As for SV's claim, I completely believe it. If there are 2 kills tonight, then obviously there is a vig. And obviously if she was scum and there was a real vig, the real vig wouldn't kill tonight for that very reason. Ergo, I suggest that the bandwagon on SV end and we look to another solution. I don't much like the opportunistic wagon on me, considering that it is starting because the obvious choice is removed and one on it doesn't even think that I'm scum. I do suggest IH because he has been on the bandwagons and seemed rather lynch-hungry earlier in the game. But, even if I'm not lynched, I'll probably be vigged...So it probably doesn't matter.

[AndrewS]

Patrick - with 7 possible pro-town roles, the chances of 2 vigs are 1 in 49. The chances of 3 vigs are 1 in 343. Not impossible odds, but odds that I would feel safe on betting on. Regardless, I think SV is a bad lynch. Oh, and I forgot to vote earlier...

Unvote, vote: IH

[AndrewS]

Alright, let me respond to some of Nightfall's misrepresentations:

-States his past experiences with the game saying that he is not a newbie.
Good for you, but it doesn’t mean you cant make mistakes or make scumtells. It also doesn’t give you a get out of jail card for when you appear to perform them.

I never said it gives me an exemption, I was responding to someone (CES, if I recall correctly), who asked if I was a newbie.

-Says that he is beyond a shadow of a doubt pro town.
So we can believe you here? Like we believed you when you were proposing a no lynch?

I believe that I said that

I

knew that I was beyond a shadow of a doubt pro-town. Which is logical. I was pointing it out because I said that if you read it as me being pro-town, then you can gain some information from the controversy.

-Says that if he was scum he would know that he wouldnt be able to convince the town to go no lynch.
But would you still attempt it all the same in order to get to this position where you tell us you wouldn’t do it if you were scum. This is the key WIFOM part of the argument that both you and Ether are failing to comprehend.

No, I seriously doubt I would - it would be too risky. Instead, I'd lurk until an easy lynch came up (much like you have been doing this entire game).

-Tells thesp that his no lynch vote was a "prod to start the game"
I thought it was to get reactions? No wait I thought it was to go no lynch.. Wait what was it for again?

As I explained, here was my thought process: Nobody was posting. I posted something somewhat scummy in order to get some discussion going and get some reactions. If nobody talks, then scum get a free ride.

-Tells me that I say that I'll post something tommorrow too much, when I had yet to actually post it all game.
Read the game yourself

As for that, I do apologize. I don't know what I was thinking of, but you are right - you only said you would post more once.