Micro 161: No-Newbie Newbie (over)

[A_Stone]

VOTE: 2

Their posts seem to be a bit... spaced out

[A_Stone]

VOTE: 2

Their posts seem to be a bit... spaced out

Is this a random vote or a policy vote?

2 are both heads in agreement with not casting a random vote? Do you not think random voting has any value?

Random vote based on their avatar.

[A_Stone]

What is generally called RV’ing is a misnomer its really more voting for BS reasons. Very few people actually use a RNG to determine their vote and of those that claim that they do I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them are lying about it. Therefore I still think RVS’ing helps create connections and is a pro-town action.

If everybody entered the games with a simple “hi” like you did and that was the accepted site meta how would that lead to questions and help move us out of RVS?

I've been playing forum mafia elsewhere for years. RVS doesn't exist on those sites. People start the game with discussion of the flavor, they fuss at chronic lurkers and shit posters, policy vote, etc. Something strikes an off note, and we're off. Every game has a more or less unique start. It's interesting. You're not looking for some slight variation on a theme to unravel.

RVS kind of cheapens the early votes. Nobody has to ask "why?" when they are voted or otherwise flinch at the attention a vote brings because it's just RVS. The only slight utility I see to it is that in a game where most of the players don't know each other or know how to get things started, there's a starting place. Problem is, it's a somewhat safe starting place for scum.

- f

I kind of have to disagree with that last part, at some points scum don't want to be the first voting/hold the hammer, so if they enter with "hi" then throw down a random vote later and they're *not* new, then it can arouse suspicion.

[A_Stone]

I've been playing forum mafia elsewhere for years. RVS doesn't exist on those sites. People start the game with discussion of the flavor, they fuss at chronic lurkers and shit posters, policy vote, etc. Something strikes an off note, and we're off. Every game has a more or less unique start. It's interesting. You're not looking for some slight variation on a theme to unravel.

RVS kind of cheapens the early votes. Nobody has to ask "why?" when they are voted or otherwise flinch at the attention a vote brings because it's just RVS. The only slight utility I see to it is that in a game where most of the players don't know each other or know how to get things started, there's a starting place. Problem is, it's a somewhat safe starting place for scum.

- f

I don’t know how the presence of a random vote would prevent any of the discussion you’ve mentioned.

I also don’t know of a safer way for scum to enter a game than to just say “hi”. You don’t have to worry about offending anybody or explaining your vote and you sure can’t get an OMGUS vote because of it.

Considering in the majority of games fferylt (Or however it's spelt) and Buldermar play both don't seem to RVS a lot, with fferylt entering many games in this way, although Buldermar seems to enter many games by self-voting.

I would say it's a null tell atm, considering this can easily be used to the advantage of scum-2, and could simply be average play for town-2

Some evidence of this kind of thing being used to the Scum's advantage is a game that I had to miss out on which was Micro 117: The Longest Micro. In which theslimer claimed scum midgame, something that she/he always seemed to do as town, which made her look townie and she won a perfect scum victory.

If 2 had said "hi" in this game but there was consistent evidence to support that they *both* played rvs in other games, then yes, they would probably be scum

[A_Stone]

Well, you did acknowledge that Slimer was Town because she did that... Unless I misread

I've neversaid it. I know her from the scum quickchat we have for this game.

SLIMER IS NOW CONFTOWN

So what I said

does

serve as evidence

[A_Stone]

I believe Slimer is a he and well yeah dont judge tells based on what he does he is Slimer....

I have to agree with you on this one, his play was rather... spontaneous?

Would like to see something from Rondar

[A_Stone]

@Mod, V/La till wednesday

[A_Stone]

Considering in the majority of games fferylt (Or however it's spelt) and Buldermar play both don't seem to RVS a lot, with fferylt entering many games in this way,

although Buldermar seems to enter many games by self-voting.

Many? I'm pretty sure that I've only done it a few times. How many games did you check and in how many of them did I self-vote?

- b

You've only done it once, I feel stupid now :/

VOTE: 2

Their posts seem to be a bit... spaced out

Is this a random vote or a policy vote?

2 are both heads in agreement with not casting a random vote? Do you not think random voting has any value?

Random vote based on their avatar.

So if I vote you because I think you're scum, can I claim that it's a random vote based on my estimation of your alignment as well?

- b

Can you rephrase this coherently?

I would say it's a null tell atm, considering this can easily be used to the advantage of scum-2, and could simply be average play for town-2

How would it be advantageous for us not to random vote?

- b

It's always good to play to your town meta, if you had random voted it would have raised some questions from the people you had played with.

^^
- b

Why do you make posts like this, your posts as a hydra

should

be seamless, why do you see a need to reinforce your views?

And I think that having the second head confirming is pro-town. By not doing it we could,i if we were scum, pretend that the second head got a different perspective on something and backpeddal out of an unfortunate situation/read.

- b

Again? You've said that you two are talking together in chat. Why are you making posts explicitly for the purpose of looking town? Is that not something more likely for scum to do?

his RVS vote seems... overreasoned I guess would be the word?

He made a space pun. That's your definition of over-reasoning? Interesting.

I'll be coming back to this later.

- f

And yet you *never* did, I thought it obvious after #23 that it was a joke, any reason why you didn't see it that way?


Wait a second, I think I've found something

In this post by RedCoyote (My post-snipping is a bit rigid :/)

I think I found a scum already. Not going to say who just yet cause I don't want the scumteam to attack me but just letting you know I'm onto you.

We are ² people.

Certainly can't say you're posting ² much.

2 saw the use of soat in quote format, along with evidence of who it was. With this evidence,

Then, followed by this to SoaT, who was already giving me scumvibes:

What does SoaT mean?

- b

Seems off to me. It was obviously a player, why did the question need to be asked?

[A_Stone]

The whole TNE business seems icky, I don't really see why he explicitly defended 2, why did you not ask about RachMarie's vote on Goodmorning?

TNE, many players have asked you questions, why are you not answering them?

I buy syndrome's gut explanation. So there's nothing wrong with his vote. So I think he's clear

Why did you accept this answer so easily?

And yes, I know I'm voting A_Stone. But that's pretty much RVS. I'd actually vote you based on your answer though

Uh...

What you're doing *isn't* actually RVS, you're voting me based on a logical fallacy. Why are you saying it's an RVS vote?

[A_Stone]

Active lurking? I think you have me backwards, man. I think the opposite. I have noted something that soat said that has caused me pause. I am waiting to see how that develops. I do not have any questions for him at the moment.

From the Wiki:

Active Lurking is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking), but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting.

How is that not the same as flooding the thread with silliness?

Active Lurking is usually just posting the benchmark to stay alive

[A_Stone]

Hmm, I suppose so.

I just didn't really see the need to

^^

When you could just post

-f & -b, why use two posts when yu could just sign it as both?

[A_Stone]

So your vote on me is gut?

It can't really be RVS because you've voted based on the logical fallacy that I am scum because we were both VTs beforehand, or is there any other reason?

[A_Stone]

Spoiler:

You've only done it once, I feel stupid now :/

At least you're being honest about your exaggeration now.

- b

Yeah, sorry guys, I legitimately thought you did it a lot :/, we live and we learn.

It is coherent already, but I'll rephrase it in a way I think you'll understand. If you base your vote on my avatar, it's not random. If you insist that a vote can be random when it's based on something (it being an avatar or an estimation of an alignment), I can just as well insist that my vote is random when it's based on my estimation of your alignment.

- b

Oh, I see what you mean now.

My vote was a joke vote, a joke is not inherently serious, and therefore it is random.

Why would a joke vote be serious?

This is backwards.

If it is advantageous for scum-us not to random vote because we havn't done it as town before, that merely reflects you being incapable of properly analysing previous games that we've played. That is, you're not applying the information you have optimally. This holds true for any circumstances where the lack of that very information would leave to a better decision than the decision made with the information available, and this is an example.

- b

I meant it more as if you had posted an RVS, you would have been playing against your established meta and it would have raised more heads than was optimal for Scum-2. Whereas having not done RVS it was pretty much understood as a null read because you always do it.

Firstly, I was responding to RedCayot, not SoaT. Secondly, even if I was responding to SoaT, I may not have realized what the abbreviation meant because I was responding to the person through the quote of another person (i.e., I didn't make that abbreviation myself).

Yeah, I know that, my post snipping was a bit rigid :/

Finally, and most importantly, what would the scum motivation for acting as if I don't understand that abbreviation if I actually did be?

It looked off to me? I thought it was unnecessary, it was obviously a player and I didn't see why it needed to be asked.

I didn't say it was necessarily scummy, I just saw no reason to ask it.

I think you're pretending to think that you've found something to launch some sort of attack on us. I think your process went something like this: you read all of our posts in ISO, and decided to attack anything you could find. You noticed this and thought "hey, this could be a great thing to attack" without thinking about whether it actually made any sense from a scum perspective. Why did you do that? It's a subtle scum-slip, but people make it all the time. As scum, they forget the fact that your motivation shouldn't be winning arguments, launching attacks or finding mistakes, but look at posts that can only be motivated by a scum perspective. You fall victim of a) launching an attack that completely ignores what potentially would be scum motivated and what wouldn't, b) aims at finding mistakes (such as me not realizing what SoaT was an abbreviation of - despite it being obvious that there couldn't be any scum motivation for pretending to have missed this), and possible c) aimed at winning arguments (although this one is more debatable).

Thank God that isn't what I was doing.

Buldermar and I don't consult each other on every single post. We are playing this game as though we're masons who share a single vote. When we are speaking for each other or speaking about our consensus about game events or players, we'll make that clear. When we are not speaking for each other, we'll try to make that clear as well.

We are in agreement about our vote.

-f

Oh.

I guess that makes sense :3

Seems off to me. It was obviously a player, why did the question need to be asked?

It wasn't obvious to me, or I wouldn't have asked it. Again: what's the scum motivation behind pretending not to know what it meant? Why would scum-me be less likely to know what it meant than town-me? These are two questions that must be answered in order to justify you thinking that it "seems off". If you don't answer these questions, I'm inclined to think that the "seems off" part is just putting seeds out there and hoping that people jumps on this.

- b

But you asked it after seeing this

Then, followed by this to SoaT, who was already giving me scumvibes:

I think I've made it pretty clear already what I want you to do, and I don't buy that you've somehow missed it.

I suppose a more apt word for what I meant by off was *interesting*

I thought that after seeing this post, and other posts mentioning soat, you would have garnered the meaning of soat.

I spoilered the large parts of that post, hope you guys don't mind.

UNVOTE:

I think I'll unvote now that RVS is over.

I really didn't like Roll's response to TNE's vote, especially #222, it was a direct contradiction with TNE's reads, if I read it right.

The whole TNE-MER discussion after the vote seemed forced to me, I'm not really sure what to think about it though.

I didn't say you were voting them. I asked you why I shouldn't vote them, since you wanted to know why I should.

What I meant is why you wanted to vote squared.

As I said, it was a random vote. I was attempting a reaction test and nobody even gave a shit. I wanted to know why you were so interested in my vote since I'd explained it was a random vote, and further whether you would have any reason I shouldn't vote them.

As for your reads post: I like. Definitely good stuff AND you brought up something I'd forgotten about: Mr E.
I am not really sure where I read him, but his arguments on soat are strong. How strong? Well, I'll leave that unanswered for the time being, but it's an interesting thing to look at later on. ESPECIALLY if we have a soat flip.

Vote: soat

I have a scumread on soat. I have light townreads on tne and Rach. I have a mediumish Townread on 2. Everyone else I cannot say or guess.

Would you please explain your scumread on soat?

I thought his easygoing attitude was townish.

I'd like to see some more from the other players (RC, Rach, ETL) etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------

[A_Stone]

Btw, 2, the Spoilered part of my post was addressed to you

[A_Stone]

@gm I liked the stuff at the beginning, I'm not sure what to think about after the tne vote though, looked p forced to me.
Did anyone else feel that way?

[A_Stone]

Hmm, I usually find an easygoing attitude to be town, do you have any meta where this isn't the case?

[A_Stone]

Answers to stuffs
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Spoiler:

Wait a second, I think I've found something

In this post by RedCoyote

This is what A_Stone now claims is merely "interesting" and not something he ever thought was a "scum-tell". I think it's clearly between the lines - especially given that this is only the last part of a longer case on us - that he tries to pass this off as a scum-tell.

- b

Wait a second, I think I've found something

It was a stupid way to start it, I agree, I actually had

-------------------------

Differentiating it from the others originally, but I thought it would be misunderstood so I took it out.


Like I've said before, I didn't understand why something like that needed to be asked, it was so obvious, it seemed like you were just posting it for the sake of posting.

It looked off to me? I thought it was unnecessary, it was obviously a player and I didn't see why it needed to be asked.

I didn't say it was necessarily scummy, I just saw no reason to ask it.

You were clearly insinuating that this would be a scum-tell. Saying "it looked off" does not satisfy my question about what the scum motivation would be. For it to be a scum-tell, it has to be motivated by alignment. If it looks equally off when it comes from town and scum, what is then the purpose of pointing it out? I don't buy this explanation. You tried to sell it as a scum-tell, and now you're retracting it and asserting that you merely thought it looked off and wasn't worried about it coming from town or scum.

- b

I still want to know why you had to ask, you said it wasn't obvious to you it was a player, and yet the post beforehand said he was giving him scumvibes? I don't see *how* the acronym wasn't apparent, everyone else understood it.

UNVOTE:

I think I'll unvote now that RVS is over.

Translation: I think I'll act as if my vote was always just a random vote - despite the fact that I was tunneling like crazy on ² - because I got called out on something I can't refute.

- b

You're overthinking this way too much, my vote on you *was* random.

Thank God that isn't what I was doing.

I think it was.

Then you're overthinking it.

So many posts in a row by 2 :/

I understand concise posting, but wut.

Hopefully ETL and Rach will post moar stuffs,

@Stone: Not off the top of my head.

I'll look into it a bit more then.

[A_Stone]

You're overthinking this way too much, my vote on you *was* random.

Yes, the initial vote. Then you started tunneling. Then I asked you if it was random, which you didn't answer. Then, when you ran into some trouble, you unvoted me, asserting that the vote had always been random.

- b

Sorry, I thought that the random-ness of the vote was implied.

A_Stone, is your vote on us still random?
- b

Yes, yes it was.

I still want to know why you had to ask, you said it wasn't obvious to you it was a player, and yet the post beforehand said he was giving him scumvibes? I don't see *how* the acronym wasn't apparent, everyone else understood it.

Yes you do, but you have to pretend not to at this point to backpedal out of this. It's not going to work.

- b

>.> Are you ever going to answer why the question had to be asked, or are you just going to make a case on how I'm backpedaling to the sunrise in your opinion

@A_Stone assuming your vote on 2 was random all that time why did you feel it necessary to Unvote at that specific time? You say it’s because we left RVS but without placing a new vote it doesn’t look like

you

left RVS.

It seems to me you took your vote off of 2 hoping to stop the back and fourth with him.

It also looks like you are trying to redirect attention away from yourself by asking for more content from some of the more lurkerish players.

1. I unvoted when I thought it was the general consensus that RVS was over, there was no point in holding my RVS vote after that point.

I'm still checking out who I'd like to vote right now, I'm thinking about 2 but I'd like to see a bit more, it's pretty much just gut and a bad feeling right now. I'd just like to step back and look at everyone a bit more before I make my decision.

2. Nah, I just felt I'd been keeping an RVS vote for too long, and that I should re-evaluate my reads, currently iso'ing people etc.

3. It's just something I do, I like to see activity from everyone.

A_Stone's 230 is really bugging me. The responses in the spoiler come off almost

too agreeable

. Scum will often try to appease the concerns of the town in order to seem more friendly, and think it makes them look less scummy. 230 feels very scummy to me.

It's just a trait of mine, I'm quite apologetic irl too.

Am I supposed to just vote for 2 even if I dont think they are likely to be scum just cause peeps dont like how much they post?

He looks like he has an amazingly strong presence doesn't he, then suddenly we realize he's using a post to answer every question individually.

@Stone: Not off the top of my head.

I'll look into it a bit more then.

IIRC, the theory behind it is that Townies tend to be paranoid, which tenses them up.

Huh, I'd have thought it'd be the opposite, wouldn't Scum care wayyyy more about how they looked to the town, and try to look more uniform?

[A_Stone]

You’d be willing to vote A_Stone as your second read? Does that mean 2 is still your first read? Is your willingness to vote Stone a compromise vote?

Echoing this, dat activity :/

[A_Stone]

Yes, yes it was.

Too late to answer this one now - for obvious reasons.

- b

Spoiler:

This just shows you misunderstood the post 2, although it's not like I expected you not to.

3. It's just something I do, I like to see activity from everyone.

You started doing this immediately after I called you out for tunneling on me and making a shit case on why I'd be scum.

- b

Nah, I started doing it when I wanted to see more activity from everyone, I see you're attempting to make it into a scumtell though.

This kind of phrasing is scummy. You didn't unvote when you

wanted

the RVS to be over or when you had made up your mind, or when someone better came along to vote,

or when you thought your vote was no longer of use.

You

waited

and unvoted when doing so would be in accordance with the general consensus. That's exactly what scum does: stays in accordance with consensus without worrying about progressing the game or making reads.

- b

Isn't my vote no longer of use when RVS is over? Yeah, umm. That made a lot of sense 2.

If you want further understanding of my reasoning, I see RVS as a phase that the town is in, and that it can only be left by all players when the reasoning for a vote is no longer random; I see it as a general consensus kind of thing.

I'm still checking out who I'd like to vote right now, I'm thinking about 2 but I'd like to see a bit more, it's pretty much just gut and a bad feeling right now. I'd just like to step back and look at everyone a bit more before I make my decision.

This is fencesitting.

- b

Well I guess you could put it like that, if you wanted to put a scummy spin on everything I say,

Stone has been an early-replace out in two of my games.

I forgot about 1 and didn't have time for the other, :/

Who else thinks we should policy lynch ^2 for spamming?

I feel that you're poking fun at people for wanting to vote 2 for his posting.

So yeah...

Anyone else find it troubling that Syndrome has time to write why he unvoted me, and yet doesn't have enough time to write why he voted someone else :/

And even if he'd found me as less scummy than Rach, why would he follow a lynch that didn't have support instead of one that was a viable lynch option, it just doesn't sit right with me.

he didnt seem as scummy as I once thought.

Does this mean you find me town, if so, at what post did this happen, and why did you not unvote me then. If you still find me as scummy, why jump off a wagon with support?

[A_Stone]

Does this mean you find me town, if so, at what post did this happen, and why did you not unvote me then. If you still find me as scummy, why jump off a wagon with support?

my previous scumread on you was like barely anything dude, and now now its gone so i unvoted you. I want nothing to do with your wagon anymore. get over it. I've given my vote to someone else. I don't like you like that anymore. you have to move on

</3 I can't believe I trusted you

Yeah, I get it. Thanks for the clarification

Yes, yes it was.

Too late to answer this one now - for obvious reasons.

- b

Spoiler:

This just shows you misunderstood the post 2, although it's not like I expected you not to.

How does it supposedly show that I misunderstood the post?

~Sarcasm~

3. It's just something I do, I like to see activity from everyone.

You started doing this immediately after I called you out for tunneling on me and making a shit case on why I'd be scum.

- b

Nah, I started doing it when I wanted to see more activity from everyone, I see you're attempting to make it into a scumtell though.

I don't see how your statement is in conflict with mine. You're making a statement about the reason whereas I'm making a statement about the timing.

And yet the timing of the question has everything to do with the reasoning?
I just asked it because I wanted to see more activity, nothing less, nothing more.

This kind of phrasing is scummy. You didn't unvote when you

wanted

the RVS to be over or when you had made up your mind, or when someone better came along to vote,

or when you thought your vote was no longer of use.

You

waited

and unvoted when doing so would be in accordance with the general consensus. That's exactly what scum does: stays in accordance with consensus without worrying about progressing the game or making reads.

- b

Isn't my vote no longer of use when RVS is over? Yeah, umm. That made a lot of sense 2.

If you want further understanding of my reasoning, I see RVS as a phase that the town is in, and that it can only be left by all players when the reasoning for a vote is no longer random; I see it as a general consensus kind of thing.

Do I need to highlight the fact that the sentence starts with "you didn't", i.e., a negation of the following "or when you thought your vote was no longer of use"?

You're avoiding the point I'm making. This time I actually trust that it's because you fail to comprehend it, though.

Yes I did notice that, and my statement was that I thought my vote was no longer of use when RVS was over, unless you had a different meaning for my vote no longer being of use?

I'm still checking out who I'd like to vote right now, I'm thinking about 2 but I'd like to see a bit more, it's pretty much just gut and a bad feeling right now. I'd just like to step back and look at everyone a bit more before I make my decision.

This is fencesitting.

- b

Well I guess you could put it like that, if you wanted to put a scummy spin on everything I say,

No, not everything, but you do say a lot of scummy things. I'm surprised that nobody else is noticing it - perhaps people fail to do so because they dislike me for my posting style and/or behavior. I trust they'll realize how scummy you are soon enough, though.

- b

Nah, it's because I'm just town.

-----------------------

@N: A few players may need a prod soon.

[A_Stone]

specifically his precedent of "non-answers".

Could you elaborate on this further?

I personally found it fairly useless after the first couple responses, but that's because it's Stone you're arguing with

Just out of curiosity if you found Syndrome’s behavior “troubling” and it didn’t sit right with you why didn’t you vote for him? Are you going to follow your own advice and withhold your vote until a viable lynch option materializes even if it’s not one of your strong scum reads?

I’m beginning to like your bandwagon more and more.

Nah. Finding something troubling isn't amounting to a vote, it's more an icky feeling about a post that ticks me off.

Sorry, I have trouble communicating my feelings :/ Or any articulation at all actually.

I'm not going to vote anyone I don't feel is scum, and I am generally slow to vote. I have WIFOM going through my head about all the possibilities and just kinda decide against it until I'm 100%

2 has been my most consistent town read, their posts have shown a willingness to engage that seems townish to me.

Uhuh, I didn't really like the ETL reads progression and them slowly confirming each other as town, it seemed planned to me. I could see it coming from the beginning of their interactions, what did you think?

I think both scum can be found in some configuration of TNE, Syndrome and A_Stone. Individually each one has looked scummy. I just don’t know which combination is most likely.

I don't really agree with this, when we add the fact that I'm town, that leaves those guys. nothing really pinged my radar from either of them about being a team other than tne accepting the gut read explanation instantly, although that was explained. They do seem to be playing alike though, although soat seems more demotivated and bored. Which probably means he's figured the whole game out in his mind and can't see why the others can't see what he sees.

tl;dr They could both be scum, but I'm doubtful of a scumteam.

If it is then well done them for pulling the wool over my eyes.

I thought you were going to flake after these posts. And these posts are a big part of my scum read on you. In my experience a lot of people prefer to play town so have a hard time getting into games were they are scum.

Yet he didn't flake, he's just demotivated. Which isn't a scumtell.

I'm working on improving my grammar Hopefully I can stop using so many damn commas soon
-----------------------
Mer Thearts

2 really kicked up a big fuss about that Rach thing, I thought it was obvious she said it in a joking manner. Although Buldermar probably didn't get it for a similar reason about why he didn't get my space joke.

GM's posting is over-cautious, if you could out your thinking then we could comment on it, if you leave your thoughts in the air then it's easy to go off on your own tangent. I still find GM townie though, I can't really see posts like #350 coming from scum.
tl;dr I do get your reasoning for keeping us in the dark, but I find it unreasonable.

-----------------------
My heart goes out to you Rach.

[A_Stone]

Is no one really going to answer why they're still voting squared?

And syndrome: Really, Why A_Stone?
And yes, I know I'm voting A_Stone. But that's pretty much RVS. I'd actually vote you based on your answer though

… I’m reading this and trying to decide if TNE is saying “get your own mislynch” or if he is saying “why you voting my partner he hasn’t done anything scummy”.

If he's scum, then it's the former.

If he's town, then we're overthinking his actions.

Yet he didn't flake, he's just demotivated. Which isn't a scumtell.

I think it’s fair to say everybody’s motivation in the game has it’s ups and downs but to only have downs does look scummy to me. It’s too easy for scum to say this game is boring I’m not going to try.

I see what you mean by that, but my life is annoying me at this point = demotivation, has nothing to do with my role. A lot seems to be happening with people's lives at the moment, maybe he has something wrong with him, if he doesn't, then your claim holds *some* weight.

I don’t think it could be planned. ETL was a replacement.

Well, yeah.

It just looks planned because they both transitioned into that phase, while having initial reservations about each other. I don't really like how predictable it was that they would call each other town eventually, they literally wrote out the steps so that nobody could be like "Well, that came from nowhere."

2 really kicked up a big fuss about that Rach thing, I thought it was obvious she said it in a joking manner. Although Buldermar probably didn't get it for a similar reason about why he didn't get my space joke.

It's difficult to explain culture differences to a group of people all sharing more or less one culture.

- b

Yeah, I understand it, I just don't really see why you took such an offense to it.

@ETL, you ever gonna answer me, or?

----------------

[A_Stone]

@A_stone: i'm sorry; answer what?

Elaboration on the no answer thingy.

A_stone is scum, that seems almost obvious to me now.

We're all wrong sometimes.

------------

Yeah, I understand it, I just don't really see why you took such an offense to it.

I think more likely you noticed Rach's post, decided that it would be a good idea to act as if you don't get why I was being offended and went with it.

I'll check if Rach posted before or after you started your "I don't see why you'd be offended" crap.

- b

Rach explained things in 378 and you posted in 381. How convenient. You can piss off already. I know that you're scum, so it's only a matter of time before either you get lynched, or I get killed/lynched in which case everyone else BETTER FUCKING LYNCH YOU WHEN THEY SEE MY FLIP.

- b

What the actual fuck.

If you're town, then you're taking everything out of proportion like an idiot.

I was at school. What was I meant to do, post in Maths?

"I'm Town, bitches" though.

That's what I thought it looked like he was saying.

-------------
Thoughts, etc.

Why the hell does Buldermar overreact to stuff, is yelling his coup de gras?

RM does not post in this game, but in a plethora of others, why?

[A_Stone]

Oh, hey Mac

now just waiting for the rest of town to realize that A_stone is scum.

- b

Maybe it's because I'm town?

And if you say that "my read could have come from anyone"

Then why was I the only on who actually addressed it?

You just misrepped that post.

He said "His vote on MER could've just as easily been anyone else." Which means that your vote lacks actual substance and looked like you'd just pulled it out of the air.

[A_Stone]

What is 'town bloc'?

---------------------------------

I've been waiting on GM's examples before I make my judgement on the slot, if I can see that they

have

been putting as much effort as they have implied, then good for them. If they haven't, then they're probably scum.

tl;dr GM should out her reasoning, or I'm going to put her read in the same boat that TNE's vote is in.

---------------------------------

Does TNE always play like this? I'm not really seeing much more than TNE misconstruing one text after another recently. I thought that #204 was ok but it's not very hard for scum to fabricate reads, it's following up on them that is difficult. Which TNE hasn't done.

[A_Stone]

Wut. Dayum those reads are paranoid. This is kinda why I wanted you to out earlier, some of this stuff just looks like you've gone off on your own tangent.

I'm not saying your reads are incorrect, it just seems like you've read through his iso and looked for stuff to attack, honestly.
By GIANT SCUMMINESS are you referring to posts circa 0-200?

Oh balls, I keep forgetting this game exists even.

Wut. How can you forget about a game's existence as town, wouldn't you have reads and be thinking about them.

Makes giant post about why MER is scum, still voting Mac

I mean, what does that Votes, Quotes, and Responses, posts 0-200 (# posts at that time in parentheses) thing mean anyway

I feel like you've been bridging up to have a scumread on MER since #231.

GM is kind of 'What' to me at the moment, I still think probably town though. Just a bit wayward

[A_Stone]

wait Mac replaced in for Soat right? yeah I need to hear more from him cause so far not that impressed...

guys n gals deadline doth approach

Who are your two top scumspects, and who will you absolutely NOT lynch... I do not want to see us in a NL situation here that is bad juju...

A Stone and possibly GM ? Not liking her posts so far...

Would compromise on TNE just cause deadline...

Will not lynch 2, Mr E or RC those are my strongest town reads atm.

So... What was that you were saying about Syndrome?

Dat Deadline.

I'd be happy to lynch TNE or Rach, I'm not sure if their misinterpreting posts are legitimate or scummy >.> That's more for TNE though. Rach is derp, and I have no idea whether my feelings about that are strengthened by the fact she's been voting a townie and hasn't even talked to me yet...

I'd

prefer

to not lynch RC or GM, as they are my top 2 town, despite some convolution and a little 'what' thrown in.

Would it not be even worse juju for you to lynch a VT?

I'm in 5 other games right now, all of which are attention-grabbing for various reasons. As my reads in this game are "soat/Mr E" it's not difficult to remember them when I do look at this game.

Lol k, I don't even think I could manage 5 games with school and such.

Makes giant post about why MER is scum, still voting Mac

I neither said this nor quoted it, so I'm not surre what this has to do with anything...?

I was asking why you were still voting Mac when you were 100% on a MER/soat scumteam and MER had more support for a lynch than soat.

[A_Stone]

A_Stone hasn’t done anything with his vote since removing his random vote from 2. Town’s most basic weapons are their voice and their vote I don’t know why he hasn’t been using both of them. He has been making an attempt to stay involved in the game and

I really hate voting if I'm not 100% sure as town, it could be my confidence problems peaking though :/

Doesn’t seem to suffer from the general malaise that seems almost epidemic.

Nah, I've had my share of depression too, just hasn't carried into the game, everyone seems to be having problems with their lives at this point.

But his involvement seems super appeasing like he doesn’t want to upset anybody.

I generally try to keep out of fights and hate seeing people angry, that could be why. I am generally an agreeable person but I will stand up for something that is way out of line or being misrepped.

And fair warning to Stone you have the largest wagon so you are probably going to be the compromise vote unless something happens. Hint. Hint.

Yeah, I realized. TNE's presence is still lacking, and if he doesn't actually post anything worthwhile then he'll do nothing to change my read and I'll vote him. I'm willing to give him some lee-way to explain himself, but if he can't :/

I was asking why you were still voting Mac when you were 100% on a MER/soat scumteam and MER had more support for a lynch than soat.

Mac is soat. soat was more obvious than Mr E I thought.

But if you are 100% sure that they are scum, then who is more obvious shouldn't matter to you, it should be who has more support for their lynch,

right?

he did not exactly say no lynch he said it would be worse to mislynch a townie than to no lynch

and that would be Stone dude

I never advocated a NL, I said that it would be bad to mislynch D1,

I would like us to have the best chance of getting scumz first day, plus be informed enough to be ready for D 2

Maybe talking to the person you're voting would help. Seriously Rach, you're willing to play a part in my lynch but you're doing it indifferently, you haven't even pressured me, all you've done is called for my lynch and commented on how you're fine with voting me for a while, then you talked to me for the first time and put words into my mouth that I never said.

But, buldermar and I have had a scum read on A_Stone since...page 1? 2? Really early on. We arrived at the read independently, but we're generally finding that it's usually the same posts that ping our scumdars/towndars wrt to everyone in our games.

So basically you think the same way, you have the same reads which can be right or wrong in many games and you feel the same about quite a few posts...

Why are you using the fact that you *both* find me scummy as a reinforcement to your reads, I would have thought that it would have been a logical assumption to make.

-------------------

TNE, there is no possibility of a MER lynch at this point, will you adhere to the wishes of the town and explain why you are still voting him?

--------------------

[A_Stone]

VOTE: Thenewearth Time I have given you, as much as I have.

You may claim now, or forever hold your peace.

[A_Stone]

Huh. You have a good point, I was giving her a little more lee-way since she wasn't as recent as TNE, and she probably hadn't seen your vote. But thanks for reminding me.

GM

,

why

are you sidelining your vote?

[A_Stone]

Why would you give a major lynch possibility the hammer MER?
Seems like you wanted me lynched even though tne hadn't posted or claimed, then back peddled when you saw I wasn't the lynch.
When did you stop loving your vote, and why?
I'll get back to 2 and others when I get to a computer

[A_Stone]

I did vote him.

[A_Stone]

And 2 gm wasn't on the wagon, what do you mean you were sharing it with her?

[A_Stone]

Ah.
No, tne was on last night after I voted him, he didn't post, didn't say anything. I think he'd given up.

[A_Stone]

Oh, there's another Page :3
I don't know why he didn't return the vote.

[A_Stone]

Have a good one RC

[A_Stone]

Says the guy trying to mislynch a townie

[A_Stone]

Don't lie 2, I saw him,

[A_Stone]

Wait, you didn't see it?

>.>

I saw you online though :/

[A_Stone]

Oh. Bad luck :s

[A_Stone]

Well sorry 2, but he *was* online afterwards. I meant no offence by the statement and will phrase it in a more polite way next time.

@RC I didn't mean for the question to be answered, it was more of a thing I would have talked about post game, I was quite surprised when he answered.

[A_Stone]

Has GM siteflaked...

[A_Stone]

Ah.

[A_Stone]

Eh, ok then.

In no particular order:

Mac and RC seem pretty genuine, although I don't really get what RC is talking about.

MER seems genuine, and the TNE thing that pinged my scumdar a bit is nullified,

GM, My mind tells me scum, for things like refusing to acknowledge why she was voting Mac instead of MER when MER had more support for a lynch when she stated she was 100% sure. Then again my gut is screaming town due to posts like #350, I've never really seen scum do things like that, I would have expected scum-gm to out her reasoning to avert suspicion, which she has not done. I also have a hard time seeing #357 coming from scum. Her case showed work had been put into it, but I'm not sure how she could have done work if all she kept in her mind was her basic reads, so I don't feel she was entirely honest about only keeping 'I think these people are scum' in her head.

ETL, I personally never really liked the way ETL and 2 kinda swayed to thinking each other were town, it seemed planned. Then again, I'm paranoid . Although I can definitely understand his vote on GM, the reads, even though I thought work had been put into them, weren't really all GM had shined them up to be.

2, I like -f's posts, they seem genuine to me, -b's posts are quite annoying though, although I quite like that he's toned it down. His blatant tunneling is non-sensical and *in my opinion*

No, you're not going to claim, because we're lynching A_stone.

- b

This was a bit terrible.

------------------------------------

I am a bit concerned with AS still.

I want others to acknowledge the point I made, because it totally has flipped my read of AS.

What did I do overnight to change your minute concern into a full scum read?

Or are you just overthinking it.

[A_Stone]

If I feel they're genuine then I don't believe they're lying, and since I don't know who the town are then I feel that how truthful they are is a good gauge, and I haven't seen many slips from them.

Yeah, you're pretty much correct.

Although I have a weaker scumread on ETL,

-----
@RC, It was an exclamation not a question, and I don't see the problem, especially when I was correct.

[A_Stone]

If I feel they're genuine then I don't believe they're lying, and since I don't know who the town are then I feel that how truthful they are is a good gauge, and I haven't seen many slips from them.

Yeah, you're pretty much correct.

Although I have a weaker scumread on ETL,

Can you explain what you meant in your 540 which was in response to buldermar's post 539? Because I see an implicit assumption in that post.

- f

His action annoyed me, he jumped in and voted me, and then insulted all the other players for not having me lynched...
...I can understand the vote, heck, I expected it after all the tunneling. But the insult was uncalled for and simply derogatory, his reads have no more validity than anyone else's so far, and yet he's making them seem like they're fully correct.

----

@GM, It really does look like you're winging it, if you aren't, as you claim, maybe if you explained your thoughts instead of keeping them to yourself it would alleviate the problem.

Could you post a reads list 2?

Same for RC

----

On that note, I must inquire on RC's reasoning for his scumread, if I was not lying, and I did not intend my question would be answered, why the read?

[A_Stone]

Bah! Go Town

[A_Stone]

Wow

[A_Stone]

I rolled Mafia originally ey?

This is the 4th or so time in a row

[A_Stone]

Great game N, it was really fun, thanks for modding

[A_Stone]

You were alright, it was a shame you always had to be V/LA though, it didn't really help your case

[A_Stone]

then N told me you are dead and I was like whhhaaaattttttt?

[A_Stone]

oops I can see how that would be confusing... meant that N told me I was dead and I was like whhhaaattt?? Cause I never expected to be NKed so soon with some strong clearly townie players, and suspicion of my slot... I figured the scum would try to lynch me instead.

I thought that also.

I still don't understand why town decided to lynch TNE over A_Stone when almost everyone FoS'd him ove TNE.

The person who gets lynched isn't necessarily the scummiest, it's the person with the weakest defence