NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Oversoul]

0_0

/confirm and stuff

[Oversoul]

I'd like to think that was random but something tells me it isn't

at least psychologically

[Oversoul]

I wasn't aware that I had cast a random vote in the last two years or so.

What?

[Oversoul]

Is it sarcasm? You never answered my other question: why me?

[Oversoul]

I just don't grok it, Thor.

[Oversoul]

I get lynched?

I think Nero's vote is still on me. I don't really pay attention to Nero since he has a literal hard on for seeing me hang regardless of anything.

[Oversoul]

Yup.

According to schedule.

[Oversoul]

OS, is a bad recruit he is gonna die really fast as either alignment me think.

A lot of smack talk about my playing skills this month.

[Oversoul]

I think Thor is town.

[Oversoul]

I'll read this later but I feel pretty confident that Thor is probably town.

Majiffy what is your read on Thor?

[Oversoul]

Majiffy what is your read on Thor?

Looks like a TownThor, belittles like a TownThor, thinks like a TownThor.

Could be ScumThor.

I believe in you buddy!

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Red Ryu

rofl

[Oversoul]

No.

I'm just going to claim now.

I'm informed townie.

There are at least *2* killing roles in this game.

[Oversoul]

too much potential for either a sk or a second mafia group seeing for mass claim to be worht it. I think our PRs will just get killed.
Mastin did have 7 people look at this game, probably for good reason

[Oversoul]

Nacho, don't be so blind

[Oversoul]

Intended to claim anyway

[Oversoul]

dat hypocrisy

[Oversoul]

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about CTD's suggestion anyway...

He tried to do this in the Team Mafia game which caused Glork to suggest it in OGML's New York game in which scum ultimately won... I don't remember a scenario where mass claim Day 1 actually lead to anything fruitful other than KKB's OP town setup game.

I wanted to nip CTD's plan in the bud because I think it would be highly detrimental to the town.

[Oversoul]

And why wouldn't anyone shoot me?

Why would anyone want to protect me? I'm not exactly useful anymore.

[Oversoul]

Also I think the operative word is *at least*

It doesn't say for a fact that there are only 2 killing roles in the game

[Oversoul]

Well, I have more information but I'm not outting it for now.

[Oversoul]

I didn't think of it during pregame

[Oversoul]

We are not mass claiming.

[Oversoul]

I wanted to nip CTD's plan in the bud because I think it would be highly detrimental to the town.

That's not why you claimed, now is it?

And why wouldn't anyone shoot me?

Why would anyone want to protect me? I'm not exactly useful anymore.

No would want to shoot you because you are useless. You don't need protection because you won't be shot.

Also I think the operative word is *at least*

It doesn't say for a fact that there are only 2 killing roles in the game

I know. That doesn't change I will probably know how many killing roles are in the game by Day 2.

1. True that isn't originally why I wanted to claim but CTD's mass claim idea is just a disaster waiting to happen so yes I guess CTD did influence me in claiming right then and there rather than waiting.
2. Exactly. I don't need protection because I am useless and if scum just want a kill in general at a later time they know my death won't be interfered with.
3. As I said, I have more information. Albeit not that much, but more. It is kinda useful with a massclaim I guess but one potential gain in the face of a slew of dead PRs is probably not worth it.

[Oversoul]

I don't understand why you're so convinced someone's going to nightkill you OS

I'm not.

I'm usually not night killed. I'm pointing out that Nacho's reasoning is borked and him declaring that I will never die is not necessarily true at all.

[Oversoul]

I was not aware that Glork took the suggestion to another game and that they actually went through with it. Having just skimmed that game, I reject your implication that D1 massclaim lead to a scum win. They actually managed 3/4 scumlynches on the first 4 days as a result of it and with the exception of one scum who managed a somewhat creative fake-claim, all the anti-town roles were uncomfortable as fuck and uniformly claimed VT. The mod acknowledged in post-game that the scum was handicapped by the massclaim. It's actually a great example in favor of D1 massclaim.

Nhammen was lynched because he had a weird scum meta that psychologically he had followed for the entirety of his time here that caused him to get lynched.
Not the mass claim itself.

While yes, it did eventually result in the scum lynches, it also resulted in a large amount of town lynches.

3. It rules out any kind of mid-to-late game claiming shenanigans, which severely hampers the scums strategic options.

And also gives scum a road map of who to kill.

What if there are masons or other wise roles that can't really interfere or directly catch mafia? What then?

[Oversoul]

I think Bulb is probably town for that reasoning he just said

[Oversoul]

This activity from HD makes me think he is town.

[Oversoul]

[

Bulba, but are you willing to this game?

No.

Even if there are a majority of people who think it's a good idea?

Yes, I will not claim as part of a massclaim. I seriously hate it that much. I understand that I may die because of it (see Newbie 1337), but at least that leaves something secret and unknown to scum (Tracey was right in this regard, and she should not have claimed during Amurika Mafia.).

But leaving things secret in a massclaim is not that important, especially so early on. Scum won't care about your role when they have plenty of other power roles to go through; meanwhile, the scum we can catch will be hiding behind your refusal. It doesn't help anyone if you refuse to massclaim but don't stop the massclaim; in fact, that's pretty much the most anti-town way you can respond to the plan.

What constitutes a majority? I can already see having like 6/7 stalwarts and then the rest claiming essentially pushing those stalwarts to claim simply because it started

[Oversoul]

Papa don't roll that way. Don't want to be giving scumbutts like you legitimate reads to sheep reasons from.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BeautyAndTheBeast

Well thanks for admitting it upfront that these reads have no real basis I guess?

And no, agreeing with you is not a basis and not necessarily town motivated, and I know you're a better player than that.

~

Wow, that's a ridiculously self-centered viewpoint. By that logic anyone who suspects you is scum.

Welcome to my scumlist.

People on this site need to get the fuck over this mentality that everything all at once has to be shared with them because it doesn't.
Actions like this definitely do not paint towards "omg scum!"

[Oversoul]

Sorry if that was harsh but I am very tired of seeing people push that reasoning if it really means anything

[Oversoul]

And Nero yet again perpetuates his hate fetish for me.

And that's not true BatB, they're retro now!

[Oversoul]

and by scum I of course mean mafia.

Why did you feel the need to make this correction?

[Oversoul]

1) I realize that
2) why did you answer for Nero?
3) confused as to how Beast made any distinction... That was Nero. They just called him SK essentially

Nero, I repeat my question... Hopefully with more clarification.
What was your motivation in changing scum to Mafia? They are the same thing essentially and your point wasn't lost when you used the word scum.

pedit: hmm... Ok.

[Oversoul]

Mollie is not stupid by any means and if she needed help she could always ask Majiffy.

Pedit: potentially, although I think the fact that you wanted to set the record completely straight is a little odd

[Oversoul]

Ya after I posted that I realized what you were talking about

[Oversoul]

I'm not scum Nero and you continue to show your inability to read me

[Oversoul]

I'm not scum Nero and you continue to show your inability to read me

Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

Fair enough but it is annoying and ruins my enjoyment when I have a player who always calls me scum regardless of whether or not I am scum and I just wanted to tell you that :/

[Oversoul]

That's preemptively cautious :/

[Oversoul]

That's preemptively cautious :/

Which comes from a town mindset, right?

It really depends. I'm okay with hydras getting their reads consolidated and voting accordingly, but what I don't like was the apparent fact that Mala felt compelled to explain why they hadn't voted yet.

There's 11 other people not voting, most of which had not checked in. I don't think anyone was really wondering why the hydra hadn't voted yet.

That's preemptively cautious :/

Or it's how a team works.

~Mala

I agree, but see above.

[Oversoul]

I had not seen that.
That changes a lot actually lol

[Oversoul]

I can already tell you that most of my reads in this game are going to be strictly gut, unless I see something direly scummy going on.

Hmm...

Hint: This is not as scummy as you think

[Oversoul]

I can already tell you that most of my reads in this game are going to be strictly gut, unless I see something direly scummy going on.

Hmm...

Hint: This is not as scummy as you think

So, scumbuddy. Got it.

So, arrogant. Got it.

[Oversoul]

His suggestion to mass-claim seems genuine IMO and Nacho has done far more scummier stuff other then the mass-claim anyway

It's alignment neutral.

CTD did it in the recently finished invitational NY game as scum traitor. However, he did do much more in my opinion here to try and get mass claim to occur than in that game.

Are you following that thread in MD stating that Nacho's summary is a scumtell?

[Oversoul]

His suggestion to mass-claim seems genuine IMO and Nacho has done far more scummier stuff other then the mass-claim anyway

It's alignment neutral.

CTD did it in the recently finished invitational NY game as scum traitor. However, he did do much more in my opinion here to try and get mass claim to occur than in that game.

Are you following that thread in MD stating that Nacho's summary is a scumtell?

Following it? I made that thread. why? what's the reason for you posting this, I'm obviously aware of the tell otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up and neither would have Mala. I also wouldn't have brought up stats if I didn't know about it...

-Mara

I thought Mala posted that post?

She posted the post right before so it was weird when you guys said that and it was apparently coming from another head.

[Oversoul]

I will comment on other points of discussion tomorrow when I should have time to do more than skim thanks to the holiday, and I will likely move my vote to B&B, although Oversoul really should be voted to oblivion for persistently ignoring this question:

Why did you want to soft-claim pre MC-suggestion, Oversoul?

People have been asking about the case against him. It has been repeatedly pointed out what the scum motivation is behind a claim like his, and he has so far provided zero town motivation for doing it. I really struggle to think of any.

He is also guilty of soft-claiming, which in general is shady at best and a common scum tactic, and the appropriate course of action is to force a full claim.

Hmm. Ok.

I ignored it again because I wanted to see your reaction to me ignoring it and whether or not you would expand beyond just suspecting me.

My claim was a gambit. I am not an informed townie. I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

As to why I contradicted myself, I did because I legitimately wasn't thinking when I answered the first time. I kept being vague or outright not answering the question because I wanted more people to react to my claim and unfortunately only a handful of players did.

CTD's analysis of the mass claim tell looks very town motivated and the fact that he is moving forward with his scumreads when I figured he would sit by and wait for me to respond or try to further a case against me seems very town. I am happy to call him town in this game.

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

[Oversoul]

BTW guys, OM is a total 3rd party

Why don't you just say SK here?

This post seems odd given you jumped all over Mollie for calling you indie.

[Oversoul]

I will comment on other points of discussion tomorrow when I should have time to do more than skim thanks to the holiday, and I will likely move my vote to B&B, although Oversoul really should be voted to oblivion for persistently ignoring this question:

Why did you want to soft-claim pre MC-suggestion, Oversoul?

People have been asking about the case against him. It has been repeatedly pointed out what the scum motivation is behind a claim like his, and he has so far provided zero town motivation for doing it. I really struggle to think of any.

He is also guilty of soft-claiming, which in general is shady at best and a common scum tactic, and the appropriate course of action is to force a full claim.

Hmm. Ok.

I ignored it again because I wanted to see your reaction to me ignoring it and whether or not you would expand beyond just suspecting me.

My claim was a gambit. I am not an informed townie. I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

As to why I contradicted myself, I did because I legitimately wasn't thinking when I answered the first time. I kept being vague or outright not answering the question because I wanted more people to react to my claim and

unfortunately only a handful of players did.

CTD's analysis of the mass claim tell looks very town motivated and the fact that he is moving forward with his scumreads when I figured he would sit by and wait for me to respond or try to further a case against me seems very town. I am happy to call him town in this game.

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

Can you quote and comment on each of these?

The players?

Realistically, I was only going to look at the people calling me scum for my claim since that usually is what happens when I do stuff like this. Scum think they see an easy mislynch and go for it either to 1) to lynch me that day or 2) make me a desirable lynch for the town at a later date

When I have more time and I am not tired I will.

I received A LOT more people defending my claim than I expected which I find strange as hell considering everything.

[Oversoul]

BTW guys, OM is a total 3rd party

Why don't you just say SK here?

This post seems odd given you jumped all over Mollie for calling you indie.

but I wasn't calling him scum!!!

You're gonna have to walk me through this one Nero because in a normal game, 3rd parties are always SKs. There is no middle ground on that.
Were you trying to insult them or was this a legitimate call out?

[Oversoul]

Nero. In normals all third parties are scum.

Jesters are strictly not allowed.
Survivors are strictly not allowed.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal Read the last line under "explicitly non-normal" headline

[Oversoul]

please stop letting nero troll you, jesus

I am a gullible person naturally
Although this is the only thing that you are commenting on now that I have basically confirmed your suspicions that the claim was a lie?

[Oversoul]

Why did you think that anyone would jump down your throat to get you lynched for it?

People really just like wagoning me for whatever reason. I don't think I've ever gone through a game where people have not either wagoned me or suspected me for a long period of time.

When I do strange things I usually get wagoned, see AFFC where I mixed up my role PM, see 90s Cartoon Mafia where I did another gambit, see First Time Mafia where people did not necessarily wagon me for my gambit claim, but they did announce suspicion.

It isn't a tell in that "if a player gambits, they will be voted" but more so "if Oversoul does something strange, he will be voted".

I will try to give reads on the people who reacted for those who asked, but don't expect them to be timely. Also expect that post to be long.

[Oversoul]

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

Explain this:

There are at least *2* killing roles in this game.

He was lying about there being 2 killing roles to make a believable story. The quote you are asking him to explain about is just fluff from the gambit while it was going on during early day 1.

Eddie, let Oversoul and others answer their own questions and defend themselves.

Oversoul, I still want you to answer this.

Explain what? That is my Informed Townie claim. I just said that the claim was a gambit and everything that was related to it was a lie.
I did it to get reactions.

If you mean specifically why that information well because it was something I could say that wouldn't immediately be a lie. I was legitimate in applying the fact that Mastin had 7 people review this game. There are probably a lot of roles and such that required that much balance maintenance.
It is also very large so I can see it going the way of Peregrine's Playground Mafia which was large and had a lot of roles too.

Tangent, what do you think of Eddie intervening and answering the question for me?

[Oversoul]

I did read it.

I don't have confidence in my ability to read Nacho. He isn't a player that sticks out in my mind despite his prevalence on the site for whatever reason.

I'm not going to really go into people's alignments until I have had the time to reread the reactions to my gambits anyway. I'll let you know then.

Unfortunately this is probably going to be the last game I get to when I do my rounds

[Oversoul]

Regarding your "gambit", why did you choose "roles" specifically?

If you are trying to do something psychological I wish you luck, lol.
I said roles because I didn't want to say definitively "oh there is a vig, oh there is an SK" that could let people who had the ability to kill to have a buy.
Mainly, I just wanted to be inclusive of all possible killing roles while being vague enough to see if people brought up specific roles or not.

[Oversoul]

I have a soft spot for Oversoul cuz of 90's mafia so my heart says town but my mind is still leary.

<3

[Oversoul]

I wasn't answering FOR you at all. So, let's stick to the facts here.

I'm not attacking you here. I actually thank you for answering it because I thought the answer was obvious as well. I guess we both misunderstood what Bulb was actually getting at since it seems to be more than just motivation and involves specific wording.

Anyway, I don't think what you did was actually scummy. Especially since you're attacking me here. The only reason I could see someone doing what you did as scum was to tie themselves to the other person. You attacking me makes me think you are worried about being associated with me which goes against the original premise.

[Oversoul]

I will respond to the questions hopefully sometime tonight

[Oversoul]

>.> Fine.

Prod dodge.
Bacde is too, well, bacde, to be scum. So I think he is likely town.

Does that really make sense, Fuzzy

[Oversoul]

So I didn't think I was going to have time to devote to this tonight but things kinda just went to hell in a handbasket

[Oversoul]

I agree with Nacho, activity is not a town tell?

If you don't want me to town read you, be my guest and tell me. Should I have a reason to not town read you?

How does OM/HD's high activity make him town? I would think scum would want to blend in and be active rather then lurk and gain attention on them. Activity isn't indicative of an alignment.

Why did you ask this question when two other players made similar comments?

[Oversoul]

I will get around to it but if you want a response now for time reasons I'll answer it if you quote it.

[Oversoul]

I am going to catalog the reactions to my claim as rejected it, supported it, ignored it.

Rejected it:
Nacho
CTD
Nero Cain
Cephrir
fuzzybutternut
Bulbazak

Supported it:
ArcAngel
Om the Destroyer
Red Ryu
DLG
Thor
Seanald

Ignored it:
BeautyandtheBeast
Slandaar
Desperado
ActionDan
Amethyst Kitty
Bacde
EddieFenix
Mac
Baby Spice

---

I'd like the people in the ignored section to explain why they didn't comment on the mass claim.

---

I'd like to know why Bulbazak and Sry were okay with voting the same wagon that I was voting, despite thinking that I was scum for my claim.

---

Looking at Fuzzy's early early game posts I don't really think he is town. Looking at his activity after the early early game it gets mildly better but not enough to warrant a town read without extensive meta; he doesn't really seem to be scumhunting either. I question, sternly (yes I am looking at you), where the AK hydra got that town read on fuzzy.

If you are curious as to why I don't think fuzzy is town it is for posts like these

So that list is in no order then?

Why did you claim. OS?

If we do that, we're popcorning.

Really, Sland?

Cool.

Multiple Personality disordered. LOL


VOTE: Oversoul

His iso is notably void of any scumhunting whatsoever.

Upon my reskim (yes I stupidly went page by page instead of iso, I don't know why) of the thread I didn't realize that the support for my slot mainly came from one player, Arcangel. I had not realized how much she was buddying me and calling my wagon bad.
Not to mention she expressed the newb scum fear of "that wagon grew fast, careful of quicklynch!" that I think is typical of newer players still working out the kinks on how to play scum.

I can't read Arc for shit either way, but that is just something I want others to note as it took me by surprise.

I guess I over exaggerated my "support" for the claim when answering CTD mainly because of this fact, but I didn't get as much heat for it as I would like.
I blame the fact that some players were slow starters. Even then, some players, Seanald for example, did go back and comment on it whereas others simply completely ignored it. Some were even close in proximity (by page) to the claim itself, such as Slandaar.

Townies are going to be able to look at the same information as you and come to different conclusions, even if you are town. Welcome to mafia. Welcome to earth. You are not the standard for objectivity. This is patently obvious. Not to mention, guess what? Scum can piggyback on a townie's opinion because they know it's one that came from a townie and therefore a legitimate conclusion that someone could have reached! "He agrees with me": Not a towntell since ever.

I am also interested in Cephrir since he has acted awkwardly with regards to my wagon.
He votes me after attacking my reasoning for the claim and similarly parroting Nacho's reasoning that the town would have the information my Informed status would give them.

Then in the very next post he makes, he considers the possibility that what I said was true, but he views it in a skeptical manner as if he *doesn't* think there are going to be multiple killers. He uses the potential for multiple killers as a way to fence sit on the overall idea of a massclaim in general.

If there are indeed multiple killers in the game, massclaim could lose us a lot of PRs quickly. But it might also result in said killers killing each other more. Conflicted. I do think mods generally account for the possibility, and there were, after all, a million reviewers.

Not to mention he parrots information that *I* said when referring to the fact that "a million reviewers" reviewed the game.

I wouldn't go that far (@283). I'm not stubborn enough to refuse to claim if it's going through anyway, but I'm pretty sure I'm against it. I suppose Oversoul's information was useful after all, because I would abstain otherwise, lulz.

Here he legitimately believes the claim despite everything saying that it influenced his decision to be against the mass claim in general.
If he believes it, his reasoning for the vote on me doesn't apply anymore. Why does he continue to vote me then at this point in the game?

Wow, that's a ridiculously self-centered viewpoint. By that logic anyone who suspects you is scum.

Welcome to my scumlist.

Well don't just sit there like a lump on that boring old Oversoul wagon!
Help me push this! It'll be fun, fruitful, and lynch a scum!

~

Good point. It's not like I actually want to lynch Oversoul.

Unvote, Vote: BeautyAndTheBeast

Here he only votes BatB because of Om the Destroyer's prompting even after stating they had just made his scumlist and that their reasoning for the town list is self centered.

That doesn't look like a townie thought process at all in my opinion especially considering he then explains the reasoning behind his vote without ever so much as attempting to do that with my wagon.

---

Red Ryu wagon, I ... don't know why I voted Ryu when the game started. I think it was something that I thought was odd during pregame but I can't be certain. I honestly don't remember.

Red Ryu seems to legitimately believe in my claim asking for further clarification on it as if there was information to be gathered from it.

Tid bit, I have actually seen Red Ryu play on his home forum. I dabbled a bit there and Ryu is a moderator. I didn't remember this until he linked back to it. I considered Ryu to be a good player there but his play here just seems different, almost dumber (I don't mean this an insult Ryu). It doesn't seem like he realizes things that I think he should be.

I think his response to Nacho in 423 is fairly town. It has that townie bravado at the end and shows continued to support for the claim on the basis of the claim itself.

I guess this is also where I get I impression that I had a lot of support because Ryu is supporting me a lot like Arc. I hadn't noticed that.

Red Ryu

, would you be willing to explain the justification for the activity post in 864?

Oversoul town if role is legit

I am curious to know what my standing is now.

Hey Oversoul, answer me this.

Before the reveal of your "gambit", what reads did you have/gather?

Admittedly not much. I hadn't really put much thought into this game other than the reads that I felt while the gambit was still going on.

For posterity sake, that was town: Thor, Om, CTD, BatB. Scum: Nacho, and fuzzy for their actions regarding my wagon.

I'm currently just waiting on a few things before I start to make waves.

[Oversoul]

I'm currently just waiting on a few things before I start to make waves.

---

I'd like the people in the ignored section to explain why they didn't comment on the mass claim.

That's you mollie

[Oversoul]

My god, ninja'd by the great wall of China

This is a Mastin game, afterall

<<< Pfft, Oversoul's wall is only a .3 at most on the Mastin scale. >>>

[Oversoul]

Do you think I am bussing Ryu?

[Oversoul]

I don't agree with you on the CTD front.

[Oversoul]

And you aren't going to try and convince me?

[Oversoul]

Those were both answers I was expecting to be honest. My faith has been restored.

[Oversoul]

Unless you were discussing my reaction to the "gambit" claim.

derp.

You're right.

I wish I could edit that now.

the people that I asked to talk about the mass claim, I meant my gambit claim.

[Oversoul]

So, my next question is, why was there not a whole lot of change in your reads from pre-gambit reveal to post-gambit reveal? Was it because the players attitude stayed the same? Their play style stayed the same? What...?

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

Plus I am still fleshing stuff out.

If you mean my town reads/scum reads on those players I just mentioned it does boil down to their reactions were something I more or less suspected and didn't really change much of my perspective on them.

It is an addiction Baby Spice. You haven't lived on the wild side until you've done it.

[Oversoul]

you guys like that? fight fire w/ fire when it comes to thor don't let him play you like that

He'll actually answer that whereas you probably won't

[Oversoul]

Mollie I enjoy playing with you, your posts are always filled with levity

[Oversoul]

Did you think it was a gambit from the start Nacho?

[Oversoul]

Why?

[Oversoul]

I'll try to post tonight, been really busy

sorry guys

[Oversoul]

Why were you voting Ryu in the first place Thor?

Where is Ryu anyhow?

[Oversoul]

So Ryu is being a punk and being owned by real life so I am just going to post it..

Rejected it:
Nacho - didn't believe it, voted me
CTD - voted me, later calling me out on the reasoning for why I claimed
Nero Cain - voted me, later said it was scummy
Cephrir - voted me, but later said he didn't think I was scummy
fuzzybutternut - didn't believe, didn't really do anything about it at the time, later got onto my wagon for "some" reason
Bulbazak - didn't believe me, voted me for it
Syryana - called me scum for it

Supported it:
ArcAngel - thinks my wagon is driven by scum
Om the Destroyer - thought it wasn't scummy
Red Ryu - calls the claim bad, but not scummy
DLG - questioned why scum would do such a thing as scum
Thor - didn't think scum would do it, leans town on me for it

Ignored it:
BeautyandtheBeast - lists as weak town later
Slandaar - no comment on it
Desperado - comments on mass claim
ActionDan - commented on CTD and mass claim
Amethyst Kitty - knows my claim exists, commented on Mass Claim and CTD, commented on AA's defense of my wagon
Bacde - did not directly comment on it, questioned if my wagon was personality driven
EddieFenix - no comment on it
Mac - no comment on it
Baby Spice - completely did not comment on it

Red Ryu wagon, I ... don't know why I voted Ryu when the game started. I think it was something that I thought was odd during pregame but I can't be certain. I honestly don't remember.

Red Ryu seems to legitimately believe in my claim asking for further clarification on it as if there was information to be gathered from it.

Tid bit, I have actually seen Red Ryu play on his home forum. I dabbled a bit there and Ryu is a moderator. I didn't remember this until he linked back to it. I considered Ryu to be a good player there but his play here just seems different, almost dumber (I don't mean this an insult Ryu). It doesn't seem like he realizes things that I think he should be.

I think his response to Nacho in 423 is fairly town. It has that townie bravado at the end and shows continued to support for the claim on the basis of the claim itself.

I guess this is also where I get I impression that I had a lot of support because Ryu is supporting me a lot like Arc. I hadn't noticed that.

He keeps bringing up the fact that I will be lynched by him for my play and not the claim. He eventually brings up the fact that I was voting him but it doesn't seem to phase him much either way which I find odd given that he was a big supporter of my slot and yet I seemed to be apparently voting him. It almost looks as if he was slightly miffed that I would be voting him given this fact and his comment was an indirect way to get me to move it.

Red Ryu

, would you be willing to explain the justification for the activity post in 864?

Oversoul town if role is legit

I am curious to know what my standing is now.

Has Oversoul tried moving his vote at all? I'm pretty sure he has just been sitting on that vote.

Hehe. I guess I was right that Red Ryu is miffed that I am voting him despite everything. It is a shame really. I was getting town feelings for Ryu's attack against Nacho and subsequent defense of himself from Bulb and co.

[Oversoul]

I fucked that up real hard.

God damn it. I had like 7 draft's for this game and I didn't know which one was it. >_>

Anyway, that is my impression of the people who commented on my claim.
What is interesting is that Ryu was particularly focused on why I was voting him which I find very peculiar, given that he mentioned it twice. Like I said, almost as if he is angry that he supported me and I was voting him.

[Oversoul]

^^So your reaction test told you nothing, basically?

That whole post is IIoA except a few tidbits about RR, even though its never really explained if you think he's scummy or townie

fuck dude, if we really want to lynch scum maybe we should just quicklynch arcangel9 (who I'm certain is scum)

because I'm beginning to understand why nacho really didn't like this slot

Vig should take out one of nacho/OS and we should probably lynch AA9

what do you guys think?

how crazy would this be if both nacho/OS were on the same team, that would be crazy

No. I just haven't been paying attention to this game because I'm lazy.

I still think that Fuzzy is likely scum for his weird interaction with the claim and potentially Ryu because of him defending me and then feeling slighted that I was voting for him. The large amount of people who ignored it made the reaction test less useful than I had hoped.

Bacde,if you actually have been reading, my Ryu vote was RVS.

I wanted to vote Nacho when you said, especially after Slandaar posted his reasoning for Nacho scum, but I wanted to see if Ryu would continue down his path of "why are you voting me" since he hasn't even really played the game since then

VOTE: Nacho

Also if the vig wants to shoot me that is there choice but I highly recommend against that.

[Oversoul]

why would you recommend against that?

You've been playing in a somewhat unhelpful manner and admitted to not paying attention to this game

not to mention you just voted for the largest wagon in the game with a pretty lax explanation right after I turned the heat up on you

if you were town you'd be willing to be vigged imo

I wouldn't care under normal situations, but sometimes fate (or Mastin) deals us a cruel hand.

Lynch me if you want but vigging me is just bad practice.

I felt Slandaar's case was pretty good and more or less aligned with how I felt Nacho was behaving.

[Oversoul]

Eddie if I answered that question it would defeat the purpose of it.

[Oversoul]

Oh look, another scum joins my wagon.

No, a townie who really hasn't put as much effort as he should into the game

[Oversoul]

Why aren't you putting that much effort into this game specifically?

I don't know really. My other games seem more interesting than this one in all honesty.
Mainly the people in this one I would have to say... They aren't conducive to a "fun" atmosphere.

Normally I like playing with Thor but he has been kinda AWOL on it. There isn't enough cheekiness going on and I just get a bad vibe from the game as a whole.

So it basically boils down to... I don't think this game is as fun as my others.
I have like 2 probably ending within a couple of days so I'll have more time to devote to this one but for now, it is the backburner

I kinda don't want to lynch you Day 1 because I find Day 1 lynches to be disgraceful and a slap in the face and I don't think you deserve that but I haven't been paying attention enough to really name a probable suspect

[Oversoul]

No, a townie who really hasn't put as much effort as he should into the game

Yeah, that bugs me. People who do fake claim gambits don't lose interest in games. There was only about 3 days between your informed townie claim and your reveal that it was a gambit. And you posted 37 times in the interim.

At what point did you lose interest in this game?

I don't remember. Probably waiting for everyone to comment is what killed it for me.

[Oversoul]

Ya.. I don't think fuzzy has gotten enough flak and I don't see where the AK hydra is getting "townie vibes"

VOTE: fuzzy

[Oversoul]

PLUS if we lynch nacho and we are wrong, I'm willing to be lynched tomorrow (this isn't pride, this is just me trying to convince the town that I'm not scum-motivated over here)

Ohh... I don't like it when people say these statements.

[Oversoul]

Don't lynch me. Seriously. That's just fucked up.

Why is it fucked up?

People have been lynched for being busy before so you wouldn't be the first.

Bulba to answer your question - I do try to maintain a sense of honor in this game. Take that as you will.

[Oversoul]

How did I sheep CTD?

In the no reaction part of the responses to my fakeclaim?

KK - Sometimes people just don't care

[Oversoul]

It wasn't a reaction test, it was a backpedal. He's scum.

Nope.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul: His play has just felt fake. His informed townie claim was a lie, which he later admitted to, and he contradicted himself on the reasons why he claimed. He said he did it for reactions, and then he isn't able to judge any of the reactions? But what really gets me is how often he backpedals. I mean, seriously, go back and read his ISO. It's backpedal central in there.

Obviously.

I'm on a bike.

We need to stop arguing over theory and just lynch people. This game is getting too long and it is killing activity.

We should be killing fuzzy because of his play and most importantly because of his V/LA comments that are entirely emotional when there was no need and also sarcastic when there was no need.

He is trying to feign his town self.

[Oversoul]

We can just lynch Desperado.

I haven't looked at him.
What are his sins?

[Oversoul]

Ryu, why were you so fixated on the fact that I was voting you when you were supporting me earlier?

[Oversoul]

I checked--we're the third-longest D1 ever on site, and counting. Yay, us?

Oh my god, it's still day one.

Ok if deadline is in 6 days, that might be a bit tight. I see that Desperado, penguin_alien and nachomamma are the three leading votees. Can someone/s be kind enough to explain the cases on each of them?

No wonder I want to kill myself in this game.

[Oversoul]

Ryu, why were you so fixated on the fact that I was voting you when you were supporting me earlier?

You haven't been moving your vote around, it was sitting on me for the longest time with really no sense of direction anywhere else in terms of what you were looking at.

Why me in particular? Thor hadn't moved his vote up to that point either.

[Oversoul]

(unlike Oversoul).

Hello!

I think Bulb is town his pushes are transparent and have good reasoning.

[Oversoul]

Fiftieth Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "Synchronized Mod VLA " votecount

)

Oversoul - 10 (Desperado, penguin_alien, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, Haylen, PeregrineV)

Nachomamma8 - 5 (Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Nero Cain, Bacde, Red Ryu)

Desperado - 3 (ArcAngel9, Thor665,Amethyst Kitty)
penguin_alien - 1 (Om the Destroyer)
Haylen - 1 (Oversoul)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)
Nero Cain - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)


Not Voting - 2 (ThAdmiral, EddieFenix)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

If deadline were to hit now, Desperado would be lynched.

New deadline is Tuesday, May 28th, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-28 12:31:59).

Haylen is finishing her final exams.
Thor665 is on V/LA until Sunday, May 26th.
mastin2, the mod, is sick.

OH Wow. That's a lot of votes on me. I'm not sure that we can ever strum up support for another wagon based on the deadline so I'll just make this easier and let you all lynch me.

I'll claim though if it helps make sense of why I didn't really want to play this game.

I am two shot BP

.

It is why I made the gambit.
It is why I asked to not be vigged.
It is why I don't have interest in this game.

I really don't agree with the site meta that Bulletproof townies *shouldn't* claim because it pretty much makes people playing those roles trapped in an unforgiving situation. I think it is anti-town to include a role that has a prevailing site standard that is not only inherently not fun, but also inherently psychologically troubling. Me being BP is pretty much a curseas I don't know how to play this role and I wish someone more vested/better at the game like Thor or Nacho would have gotten it. I rarely if ever get nightkilled and I am more commonly left alive for which ever reasons. Probably because I am erratic with my playstyle.

Anyway scum reads

Well I don't really like a lot of the players in this game. I can't really quantify my feelings for their play other than it doesn't look transparent and they don't really appear to be trying but I would say that Nero and AK fall into that category of "I don't like, but I don't know why" so I suggest people look there. Especially AK. I think they've been coasting because they can really.

I still think that Haylen/Fuzzy is scum and the fact that Haylen voted me while she still has not completely caught up with the game is proof of that.

re: Nacho, I think he is town but I can't read him so take that with a grain of salt.

re: CTD, I really think he is town because he was very vocal about his mass claim this game contrary to the recent YOLOville game where he wasn't and was scum. I also think his analysis of his own mass claim suggestion is pro-town and the first time I've seen him use it eitherway so that looks town.

re: Bulbazak, I think he is town because he is playing aggressively and inspecting everyone

re: Thor, not really sure about him anymore. I thought he was pretty townie early game but his defense of me is suspect... He normally is ok with voting bad players and this game I have most certainly been a bad player. Be sure to keep your eye on him.

re: Arcangel, I have no fucking idea how to read her. She is in the same boat as Nacho really.

re: BatB, I think they are town. They have that confrontational thing going on. Thor should be able to read that hydra though.

re: Bacde, I think he is town. He is playing similarly to his play in the recently finished Theaters mafia where he was town. Read that if you want some really recent town meta.

re: seanald - town for his entrance post and his <3 Oversoul comments. No seriously he is town for those.

re: Om - I think they are town based on their aggressiveness and their play so far in the game

re: Eddie I think he is town for the same reasons as Om, Eddie was really digging into my motivations as a player for the reaction test which is town

I don't remember any of the other players off the top of my head. There's too many.

So yea.

1. I am sorry to Mastin for letting real life and just a combination of things get the best of me. In all honesty I shouldn't have participated in this game though.
2. I am sorry to the town and I will not hold a grudge against any of you for this lynch since I deserve it and it is humbling lol.
3. Carry on my will! Look into Haylen please.

[Oversoul]

Looking at this page I don't like Slandaar or Ryu's contributions really.
I agree with Seanald's comment about Mara though.

That would also be a good wagon I could support.

[Oversoul]

Also I should probably warn everyone since this is mastin...

His last normal game had mafia as a Sane Cop with a Town Miller.

So... don't take everything for surface value especially when it comes to roles and shit.

[Oversoul]

I do have a real scum read. Haylen.

I've never been SK so I would ruin it like this

[Oversoul]

I do not give a fuck about the alignments of B&TB and OS.

Nero proving yet again he is a detriment to any alignment given he can not play nicely.

Spoiler: <<< And Even Yet ANOTHER Very Late Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Oversoul - 11 (Desperado, penguin_alien, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, Haylen, PeregrineV, Nero Cain)

Nachomamma8 - 4 (Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Bacde, Red Ryu)

Desperado - 3 (ArcAngel9, Thor665, Amethyst Kitty)
penguin_alien - 1 (Om the Destroyer)
Nero Cain - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)
Haylen - 1 (Oversoul)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)

Not Voting - 2 (ThAdmiral, EddieFenix)

With

24

alive, it took

13

to lynch.
Oversoul was at L-2!

[Oversoul]

What happened to the no policy lynching line you mentioned earlier?

[Oversoul]

So you think you are a policy lynch? lol

Voting without a reason and not looking to determine our alignments is just as bad as a policy vote.

Nero why are you lurking?

[Oversoul]

^ last common courtesy, let the day be long enough so that Nero answers that

[Oversoul]

Umm I don't know what you expect to happen in 4 days either for my play or the chance to vote someone else that has a realistic chance to get lynched.

You'll probably be disappointed anyway

[Oversoul]

Nero pocket scum read now

[Oversoul]

My spirit will haunt you Nero

[Oversoul]

I didnt really think of claiming 1-shot
That would have been a neat gambit I guess

I full claimed because I don't really see any reason not to at this point

[Oversoul]

Since Nero and Haylen are only grand wishes...

VOTE: Nacho

[Oversoul]

I'm going to remain skeptical about you in general. You pulled a gambit early game and I'm sure you can understand me being leery about fully trusting your latest claim.

I understand.

Like I said, I'm accepting of my lynch.

[Oversoul]

It'll be me Thor

[Oversoul]

I'm big alright.



I was L-2/3 a few pages ago. I claimed, and that made some people move, but I'm pretty sure I am still the largest wagon.

[Oversoul]

Lol. This time.

Hold on I'll link it

[Oversoul]

Fiftieth Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "Synchronized Mod VLA " votecount

)

Oversoul - 10 (Desperado, penguin_alien, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, Haylen, PeregrineV)

Nachomamma8 - 5 (Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Nero Cain, Bacde, Red Ryu)

Desperado - 3 (ArcAngel9, Thor665,Amethyst Kitty)
penguin_alien - 1 (Om the Destroyer)
Haylen - 1 (Oversoul)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)
Nero Cain - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)


Not Voting - 2 (ThAdmiral, EddieFenix)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

If deadline were to hit now, Desperado would be lynched.

New deadline is Tuesday, May 28th, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-28 12:31:59).

Haylen is finishing her final exams.
Thor665 is on V/LA until Sunday, May 26th.
mastin2, the mod, is sick.

OH Wow. That's a lot of votes on me. I'm not sure that we can ever strum up support for another wagon based on the deadline so I'll just make this easier and let you all lynch me.

I'll claim though if it helps make sense of why I didn't really want to play this game.

I am two shot BP

.

It is why I made the gambit.
It is why I asked to not be vigged.
It is why I don't have interest in this game.

I really don't agree with the site meta that Bulletproof townies *shouldn't* claim because it pretty much makes people playing those roles trapped in an unforgiving situation. I think it is anti-town to include a role that has a prevailing site standard that is not only inherently not fun, but also inherently psychologically troubling. Me being BP is pretty much a curseas I don't know how to play this role and I wish someone more vested/better at the game like Thor or Nacho would have gotten it. I rarely if ever get nightkilled and I am more commonly left alive for which ever reasons. Probably because I am erratic with my playstyle.

Anyway scum reads

Well I don't really like a lot of the players in this game. I can't really quantify my feelings for their play other than it doesn't look transparent and they don't really appear to be trying but I would say that Nero and AK fall into that category of "I don't like, but I don't know why" so I suggest people look there. Especially AK. I think they've been coasting because they can really.

I still think that Haylen/Fuzzy is scum and the fact that Haylen voted me while she still has not completely caught up with the game is proof of that.

re: Nacho, I think he is town but I can't read him so take that with a grain of salt.

re: CTD, I really think he is town because he was very vocal about his mass claim this game contrary to the recent YOLOville game where he wasn't and was scum. I also think his analysis of his own mass claim suggestion is pro-town and the first time I've seen him use it eitherway so that looks town.

re: Bulbazak, I think he is town because he is playing aggressively and inspecting everyone

re: Thor, not really sure about him anymore. I thought he was pretty townie early game but his defense of me is suspect... He normally is ok with voting bad players and this game I have most certainly been a bad player. Be sure to keep your eye on him.

re: Arcangel, I have no fucking idea how to read her. She is in the same boat as Nacho really.

re: BatB, I think they are town. They have that confrontational thing going on. Thor should be able to read that hydra though.

re: Bacde, I think he is town. He is playing similarly to his play in the recently finished Theaters mafia where he was town. Read that if you want some really recent town meta.

re: seanald - town for his entrance post and his <3 Oversoul comments. No seriously he is town for those.

re: Om - I think they are town based on their aggressiveness and their play so far in the game

re: Eddie I think he is town for the same reasons as Om, Eddie was really digging into my motivations as a player for the reaction test which is town

I don't remember any of the other players off the top of my head. There's too many.

So yea.

1. I am sorry to Mastin for letting real life and just a combination of things get the best of me. In all honesty I shouldn't have participated in this game though.
2. I am sorry to the town and I will not hold a grudge against any of you for this lynch since I deserve it and it is humbling lol.
3. Carry on my will! Look into Haylen please.

[Oversoul]

Why do you want to kill BatB? I think they are town. They are playing to theier aggrressive meta.

[Oversoul]

If Oversoul legitimately got a town 2-shot BP role, then why wouldn't his strategy be to lay low and scum-hunt hard?

Because not everyone plays this game the same.

I don't really see why that is so hard for people to understand.

Think long-term implications of his claim, Thor665. Oversoul is not town.

Will you be sad once I flip and you are proven wrong?

I don't think so because you will blame it on me, but then how do you explain the people who got it right?

[Oversoul]

Plus he's claiming a role he's had in another game.
Plus he listed the number of BP that he is.
Plus he has no credibility since he's a proven liar.

1) You obviously didn't read the link I gave you if you think that is the case
2) Why is this a big deal?
3) Which would you have known had I not told you?

[Oversoul]

I hate claims that explain previous behavior, and your rant of why bulletproof is such a terrible horrible thing is not so good. Bulletproof is probably my favorite role as town because you're literally unkillable town and there is no reason for you to hold back ever.

See below

If Oversoul legitimately got a town 2-shot BP role, then why wouldn't his strategy be to lay low and scum-hunt hard?

Because not everyone plays this game the same.

I don't really see why that is so hard for people to understand.

[Oversoul]

Lynching a townread and not even trying to find an alternative? OK.

I called you town? That must have been a mistake.

It was more an honor thing but clearly that means nothing on THE INTRANETSZ

[Oversoul]

Showing up to defend yourself but not doing shit else the whole game is scummy.

I concede that which is why I am okay with getting lynched.

BatB save your breath. Pray you get nightkilled and move on.

[Oversoul]

I hate claims that explain previous behavior, and your rant of why bulletproof is such a terrible horrible thing is not so good. Bulletproof is probably my favorite role as town because you're literally unkillable town and there is no reason for you to hold back ever.

See below

If Oversoul legitimately got a town 2-shot BP role, then why wouldn't his strategy be to lay low and scum-hunt hard?

Because not everyone plays this game the same.

I don't really see why that is so hard for people to understand.

You're right we should never lynch anyone ever because they're probably just playing differently. Let's just no lynch until the cop shows up with a guilty.

Are you scum or are you trying to compete with me for most useless townie?

[Oversoul]

Neither? I've been scumhunting all day? I guess I must just be ~~playing differently~~~~

You're still an ass!

~~~

[Oversoul]

1) I clicked the link. I read your role in that game. I iso'd the mod to find out your role pm. I searched the "Worst Roles" topic to try to learn more. Nothing. But no, I didn't read the LARGE THEME game itself. I assumed maybe you were BP in that game since you said "Me being a BP is pretty much a curse" with "curse" linking to that game and no other explanation provided. If I'm wrong, then congrats on refuting a minor point.
2) Because you should stop playing mafia on this site if you can't think of a possible difference between an unlimited BP and a X-Shot BP.
3) That your first claim was a lie? Yes.

1) If it was a minor why include it at all unless you REALLY WANT THIS GUISE
2) Whoosh.
3) Whoosh.

Stay golden.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Desperado

[Oversoul]

Tl;dr?

Sure.

He isn't me

[Oversoul]

Mollie, what other vote would you have liked to place?

[Oversoul]

You didn't answer mine