NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Red Ryu]

/confirming Cult leader.

[Red Ryu]

I'm gonna recruit BeautyandtheBeat tonight, he is a player who is gonna most likely roll into end game from what I have seen.

OS, is a bad recruit he is gonna die really fast as either alignment me think.

Thor is likely scum, or stupid aggro town.

Aw, look, a bad reaction test that ignores the current game state and a player who is functionally playing as neutral as a neutron.

Now I have three people I'm willing to lynch.

Well, allow me to run through it slowly then;

1. There were two people with votes on them at the time I entered the game.
2. One was B&B, who I think I can read well.
3. One was you, who I am more neutral about my ability to read.
4. I voted you.
5. You responded in a scummy way immediately appearing and trying to soften the vote and also ignoring the other vote on you for unclear reasons.
6. As part of this you questioned if the vote was random.
7. I said the vote wasn't random.
8. You did this.
9. I explained everything.

What's ten?

Vote: Thor

I don't believe these being legit. You're reaching for a reason to vote someone and the reaction you claim to have gotten is not

telling

nor did I think it would have been leaning scummy off what OS posted.

[Red Ryu]

OS, is a bad recruit he is gonna die really fast as either alignment me think.

A lot of smack talk about my playing skills this month.

It's not smack, your posts are giving me a feel of, player who will pro town and be shot, or scum who will be copped/vigged because you're harder to read. I may be wrong here but pregame is giving me this feeling.

Who should I recruit? Or who do you think is a bad pick for me to recruit and why?

[Red Ryu]

I like the overconfident/hyperaggressive town mindset usually but this statement is just ridiculous. No one even knows if the game has started yet.

If the game had started would my comment not have been ridiculous?
What does game start have to do with it being a bad or good comment?

I don't believe these being legit. You're reaching for a reason to vote someone and the reaction you claim to have gotten is not

telling

nor did I think it would have been leaning scummy off what OS posted.

This from the guy dorking around with cult claim?

Why do you think that because you don't find the reaction

telling

that I don't? How do you draw that conclusion?

Also....seriously, I'm"reaching" during RVS?

Look forward to more on that too.

Yeah, I'm good with a Ryu lynch.

If your casting a "for serious sizzle to vote" RVS is over. You're trying really hard to justify a vote in RVS that you claim is serious that really doesn't mean much this early.

However I think your dumb town or scum, leaning on dumb town ATM, but enlighten me.

[Red Ryu]

I think Thor is town.

Potentially same for me, why do you think this?

[Red Ryu]

Thor dumb town, posts to actionDan make this more apparent.

[Red Ryu]

[quote="In post 98
What town motivation exists to perpetuate RVS or even pre-RVS when we can move out of it as quickly as possible?

Enlighten me.[/quote]

*headdesk*

Why would that be scummy to goof off? It's pregame and they can make something worthwhile in RvS.
See if they stick to it or not.

RVS is a tool, learn to use it.

[Red Ryu]

He should be null at worst and you're trying to pass it off as legit, and making it apparent to him you're serious. And not just apparent your trying really hard to justify it, especially for an RvS vote.

If your doing a reaction test, you blew it. And if you're scum your trying too hard to fake content off nothing.

Hense dumb town or scum.

unvote

[Red Ryu]

Unvote

Thor I read your reason, I even quoted it.

Anything you got on OS is borderline worthless. I will say how others reacted to it is a tell worth looking at, OS though not so much.

So yes I think how you approached applying Ws bad, but your line if questions, at least later, is trying to make content and stance. I think your dumb town because you're trying but doing it wrong and pretty much got null tells from OS, others are really just a fluk and I don't think you planned that.

I had no clear read on you, congrats, I said this very clearly til I read page 4. You didn't really get much from OS and you got something from others, which all I will credit you for that.

Reguardless you're not my concern right now.

[Red Ryu]

Anything you got on OS is borderline worthless. I will say how others reacted to it is a tell worth looking at, OS though not so much.

So...yeah, in other words I created reactions and got tells.

Almost any situation can make tells.

Yours did, but the one I was hopings yours would bring up, didn't go anywhere. What you did later after that point I did like.

So yes I think how you approached applying Ws bad, but your line if questions, at least later, is trying to make content and stance. I think your dumb town because you're trying but doing it wrong and pretty much got null tells from OS, others are really just a fluk and I don't think you planned that.

I'm certain I didn't plan it, after all I only do it in all of my games in order to get reactions and responses - but this time it's probably a silly fluke.
It's good to know I'm doing something "wrong" but am helping scumhunt to the point that generates a town read on me.
Hint: if you look at my meta you'll recognize you're calling me dumb town for something I do as scum (dumb or smart - who can tell) which, y'know, before you call my methods dumb and bad you may wish to look into before you claim it's a town tell for you.

Yeah - that's a backhand 'you play the game bad back at'cha.

That's fine, I do dumb things too.

Can you link me to a town game and a scum game?

I had no clear read on you, congrats, I said this very clearly til I read page 4. You didn't really get much from OS and you got something from others, which all I will credit you for that.

I'm just bringing it up - because you suggested me making more of something that was really a null tell was scummy.
You made a rather large production of calling me - functionally, a null tell.
Does that make what you did scummy?

Depends.

I pushed you/voted you to see more form you and get more questioning on what you did. Ultimately you kinda gave me tells on your own so all in all I didn't really do much to get to this point. I did make a large product while calling you a null, but the point what to try and read you. The good thing is talking with you strengthens my read, you are putting effort, trying, seeing, making things happen. You press me back and forth here, trying to see where my head is. The end result does not matter, your intent is the #1 that should matter.

I could however have been wasting your time and trying to fake this all and make myself look townie, do you think I did this?

As for if I think what I did was scummy, nope. I pressed to read you, that's all. And it paid off well.

Btw, I'm not recruiting you into my cult til I need a win.

<<< Know what I just realized? I'm the mod! I can fix broken quote tags! And I don't need to be asked to do it! >>>

[Red Ryu]

tbh thor always looks scummy to me. I am leaving him to majiffy to sort out.

possible town read on spice and rofl slot. wow he was touchy. I guess he didn't want to talk to me.

red person, what's your dealio cheerio

This at me?

Being a paperman if so.

But do tell me about Thor a bit, why do you always think he is scum? Give me some background on him.

[Red Ryu]

*headdesk*

Why would that be scummy to goof off? It's pregame and they can make something worthwhile in RvS.
See if they stick to it or not.

RVS is a tool, learn to use it.

It isn't scummy to goof off. It's scummy to try to keep us from exiting RVS. There's a big difference.

In other news, Cephrir continues to be obvscum and I will tunnel him all of d1 as soon as the votes count.

I agree, but do you think they were trying to do this.

I forgot what Cephrir posted, will reread later.

[Red Ryu]

Tbh: I have a hard time reading Ceph.
It's not that he's not likely as scum. It's that I don't see him as scum.

Ryu, hmm. Now THERE is a likely scum if I ever saw one.

Don't want to vote him just yet though.

Ryu, what do you have to say to this?

[Red Ryu]

I'll read later, I need sleep.

[Red Ryu]

on page 4

Thor is likely scum, or stupid aggro town.

VOTE: Red Ryu

"Oh hey this is either scummy or playstyle IDFK so I'm going to vote Thor anyway!"

Opportunistic as fuck right there

-

It's like you didn't read anything in my interaction with Thor.

Bad post.

[Red Ryu]

No.

I'm just going to claim now.

I'm informed townie.

There are at least *2* killing roles in this game.

You were told there are at least two killing roles?

If this legit did it specify alignment/faction.

Paraphrase wording.

[Red Ryu]

Oversoul, your claim is completely useless.

Vote: Oversoul

Bad claim? Yes.

Was it scummy in itself? No.

[Red Ryu]

Vote: Oversoul

Do explain why you voted with reasoning.

[Red Ryu]

Oversoul, your claim is completely useless.

Vote: Oversoul

Bad claim? Yes.

Was it scummy in itself? No.

It was scummy in itself because that role would never exist. Now he's scummy for other reasons, but the claim still sucks.

I'm catching up via phone but your saying informed townie can't exist? I've seen this role and been it, why can't he be one. You seem dead certain he can't without asking a single question about his role.

If he is scummy for other reasons tell me why?

[Red Ryu]

Thor dumb town, posts to actionDan make this more apparent.

If you're reading someone as Town, why are you working so hard to alienate that player?
Why, if you're reading someone as Town, are you expending effort to marginalize their opinion?

"Dumb Town, or Scum" is an exceptionally scummy read to give out for myriad reasons.

This guy needs a noose. Can't wait for the game to "officially" start so we can "quick-lynch" scum.

Being town does not equal doing the smart thing nor that they have the right idea.

[Red Ryu]

We are not mass claiming.

+1 B&B

[Red Ryu]

on page 4

Thor is likely scum, or stupid aggro town.

VOTE: Red Ryu

"Oh hey this is either scummy or playstyle IDFK so I'm going to vote Thor anyway!"

Opportunistic as fuck right there

-

It's like you didn't read anything in my interaction with Thor.

Bad post.

Oh trust me you're still a good vote, even after the Thor interaction.
You basically said Thor is being aggressive and this somehow makes him aggressive scum rather than aggressive town arbitrarily.

~

This is how I know you didn't read it.

I never called aggressive scum.

[Red Ryu]

Om is saying some of the dumbest things known to man, their posts on B&B are atrocious.

[Red Ryu]

I'm catching up via phone but your saying informed townie can't exist? I've seen this role and been it, why can't he be one. You seem dead certain he can't without asking a single question about his role.

Informed townie where the piece of information given is "there are at least two killing roles" doesn't exist because it's completely fucking useless information. I seriously doubt that it would be involved in any information he was given, but am not sure.

If he is scummy for other reasons tell me why?

Later.

It can't exist because the info is useless?

Hey no. That info is relevant if he is telling the truth.

Vote:Nachomamma8

Let me know if who your mates are sometimee down the road.

[Red Ryu]

Why do you think he is faking it?

We don't know if he is or not and we can only judge him on his votes for now.

[Red Ryu]

Hey no. That info is relevant if he is telling the truth.

No, it isn't SINCE WE WOULD KNOW BY DAY 2.

So a doctor wouldn't stop a kill? A poisoner is out of the question. People might opt to not shoot? These abilities might be one shot?

He specifically said roles so I wanted to ask again what that ment paraphrased since that info may or may not count mafia/ other things depending jow it was worded.

What's more you show knowledge you already know something about this situation. Wether he is lying or telling the truth.

[Red Ryu]

So a doctor wouldn't stop a kill? A poisoner is out of the question. People might opt to not shoot? These abilities might be one shot?

He specifically said roles so I wanted to ask again what that ment paraphrased since that info may or may not count mafia/ other things depending jow it was worded.

What's more you show knowledge you already know something about this situation. Wether he is lying or telling the truth.

Doctor probably doesn't get a successful protect in a 24 person game N1 unless scum are incompetent or extremely unlucky. Poisoner? Yeah, no. People might opt not to shoot? Most one-shot vigs shoot the first night, and people not shooting is an assumption that isn't likely, sorry.

Your making a lot of assumptions here.

Many of which I don't like.

His info legit tells us either how many bad guys out there can kill/factions Indy, or he is teillng is about town.

What this oes tell me is you have no non mechanical reason, which at worst is bad play not scummy, to single Jim out. You want him dead to get a lynch, not to find scum.

[Red Ryu]

I am because lynching him for just claiming informed townie is not something I will support.

If he has done something scummy, no one has shown it.

[Red Ryu]

Your assuming again and showboat foresight that you even considered that he was town.

If I lynch him, it will be on his play today not his role.

[Red Ryu]

Your assuming again and showboat foresight that you even considered that he was town.

If I lynch him, it will be on his play today not his role.

This game constantly requires us to take leaps of faith and assume things. When you play, you assume there is a way to distinguish whether someone gets a role PM that says "you win with town" from "you win with scum". You assume that if you find scum, you will be able to convince people to get them lynched. You assume scum will do this, you assume that people will do that, you assume that this game is possible for your side to win. You back up these assumptions with evidence. I making an assumption about the setup that SHOULD be obvious to most of you, Oversoul is claiming something that is completely useless to us. What use is a role whose information will be revealed by Day 2 (or even by Day 3 if someone gets lucky)?

But again.

This all comes back to the key problem and one I want to lynch you over because you're making it obvious you're not trying to read OverSoul, you're trying to lynch him for claiming Informed Townie.

You say scum safe claim, but you lack anything to show he is scum.

Ignore the claim, what did he do today that is worth a vote outside of that? Myself and others aren't going to vote him for it.

[Red Ryu]

You got any kind of a read towards ArcAngel9?

Null, I don't like Arc's posts but I don't know enough about him right now.

I think he is newer to mafia, since his posts aren't really adding too much but I'm not sure of his intent.

He needs to post more.

[Red Ryu]

red, nacho is likely town

will you plz look at dlg's posts when there are a couple of flips

or better yet

read what he is saying now and see if there is anything to it. to me it looked like he was wanting to for sure wrangle a town read from us before placing us in his town pile

I'll reread in ISO style.

Thoughts on Om?

[Red Ryu]

Prod dodge, writing papers on no sleep.

<<< I strongly suggest you read the rules I have about prod dodging. You're within activity boundaries already, but had you not been, this would not have reset your timer. Follow the intent of the rules, not the literal letter. A post consisting merely of "Prod Dodge" fits the letter of the rule but violates the spirit.

If this is to announce V/LA, however, then it

would

reset the timer, but you need to clearly declare it if this is the case. >>>

[Red Ryu]

People should put more votes on Nacho.

[Red Ryu]

@Kitty if I wasn't going to dead sue to me being up 48 hours and on sleeping pills I would.

fuck insomnia.

[Red Ryu]

Nacho is a read we both share, neither of us like the mass-claim and neither of us like his push on OS who we both think is probably town.

I figured that he was lying, so I pushed him for it. The massclaim idea you might not like, but I don't really see how that makes me scum.

though I have quite a fair amount of reason for Nacho-scum

I've heard "massclaim, summary, OS is town". That's about it.

Hey Nacho, thoughts on Cehprir?

I don't like the way he's responding so far, but I'm still waiting for the wheels to turn a little more before I give a solid read on him.

I'm actually down to lynch nacho

this feels like scum-nacho to me

(how was that as a contribution?)

You got me all excited when you said you were gonna provide reasoning later...

town-nacho would not have tunneled this idiotic OS case for this long

but its the perfect case for him to push as scum

It's also a good case to push as town, considering he was lying and it's a shitty gambit as town.

pfft. Nacho badgering mover asking why Mollie called me an "indie" is just retarded and scummy. That's all that needs to be said.

Why?

VOTE: Bulb
Sheeping. Etc.

Hey fuzzy, nice of you to join us? Where have you been?

People should put more votes on Nacho.

Red Ryu! Why didn't you like my observations on Oversoul?

I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

Why did you think that anyone would jump down your throat to get you lynched for it?

lol look at this post

does this look like a "Hey I'm Nacho and I'm town and I'm pushing my point of view" post?

or does this look like a "Hey I'm Nacho and I'm scum and I wanna just check in and not be suspected for not posting" post?

Seriously.

@Nacho no its not a shitty gambit to do as town, if he is actually informed then its helpful for him to reveal his information ASAP. Also my reasoning is pretty much that your play in this game isn't your town play. Thats it.

If you AREN'T voting nacho after this post, you need to explain why

We need more votes on him.

[Red Ryu]

Oversoul why is your vote this on me?

[Red Ryu]

Don't think Om is scum off recent posts.

Also pro tip, town will contradict itself, what town won't do is contract in an action where only they can gain from.

[Red Ryu]

BeautyAndTheBeast May 03, 01:43pm May 09, 01:37am 0 days 10 hours 126
Om the Destroyer May 06, 02:51pm May 08, 11:38pm 0 days 12 hours 79
Nero Cain May 03, 03:07pm May 08, 11:58pm 0 days 12 hours 77
Oversoul May 03, 04:35pm May 09, 11:56am 0 days 0 hours 54
Amethyst Kitty May 03, 02:25pm May 09, 10:46am 0 days 1 hour 52
Bulbazak May 03, 02:02pm May 09, 10:30am 0 days 1 hour 47
fuzzybutternut May 03, 05:41pm May 08, 10:10pm 0 days 14 hours 45
Nachomamma8 May 03, 06:57pm May 09, 12:45am 0 days 11 hours 42
Bacde May 06, 07:41pm May 09, 11:53am 0 days 0 hours 39
Red Ryu May 04, 02:17am May 09, 12:23pm 0 days 0 hours 38
Cephrir May 03, 02:47pm May 08, 10:33pm 0 days 13 hours 35
Thor665 May 03, 11:24pm May 07, 09:10pm 1 day 15 hours 31
mastin2 May 03, 10:49am May 09, 09:36am 0 days 2 hours 26 May 09 2013
ArcAngel9 May 03, 01:59pm May 08, 08:03pm 0 days 16 hours 24
Desperado May 06, 02:43pm May 08, 11:43pm 0 days 12 hours 24
EddieFenix May 03, 07:03pm May 09, 11:37am 0 days 0 hours 21
Slandaar May 03, 02:06pm May 09, 11:12am 0 days 1 hour 19
DLG May 04, 05:17am May 08, 07:01pm 0 days 17 hours 13
CrashTextDummie May 03, 08:03pm May 08, 07:28pm 0 days 16 hours 12
AngryPidgeon May 03, 02:18pm May 08, 06:33pm 0 days 17 hours 10
ActionDan May 03, 01:51pm May 08, 07:27pm 0 days 16 hours 10
roflcopter May 03, 09:15pm May 04, 12:20pm 5 days 0 hours 9
Baby Spice May 03, 02:26pm May 08, 05:57pm 0 days 18 hours 8
Mac May 03, 04:03pm May 08, 05:21pm 0 days 19 hours 7
Rondar May 03, 02:14pm May 07, 02:30pm 1 day 21 hours 3
Human Destroyer May 03, 02:06pm May 05, 05:07am 4 days 7 hours 3
pirate mollie May 07, 10:08am May 08, 07:25pm 0 days 16 hours 3
Syryana May 03, 02:23pm May 08, 08:00am 1 day 4 hours 2
Majiffy May 05, 06:03am May 05, 09:03am 4 days 3 hours 2
Seanald May 03, 02:08pm May 08, 08:21pm 0 days 16 hours 2
Malakittens May 07, 10:30pm May 07, 10:30pm 1 day 13 hours 1

For reference so I can remember this later.

[Red Ryu]

Seanald for #1 vig pick.

[Red Ryu]

Om is leaning town, he has interest for town to move in the right way. Is looking for direct intent.
Bacde is most likely town. Goofy but town.
Oversoul town if role is legit
Thor still dumbtown.
CrashTextDummi leaning scum, he is caught up with Oversoul the same reason why Nacho is scum. The one difference is how mechanical and simple he is taking his reads like his post #770.
Nacho has been tunneling a read and shown he has never tried to read into intent, he has shown he wants a lynch.

If you aren't listed I don't have a read/I forgot what it was. so null until they gain my interest. Or I just didn't read it, forgot how a 20+ man game was like.

[Red Ryu]

I'll vig your prick, and im still catching up. I don't have alot of time due to work so im a little over half way through right now.

Someone ask me something to get my dick juices in the game.

Hi, you posted now.

What reads you have, even simple or leaning ones?

[Red Ryu]

Any gut feels of reads or anything.

I feel an overwhelming compulsion to follow the flowchart.....

and I have a town read on crash Text Dummie for the way he explained and handled the massclaim thing in the beginning pages there.

Explain.

I had the opposite.

[Red Ryu]

guys take out the head and the body will die

Nacho is scumbutt #1 and I REFUSE to even CONSIDER bandwagoning anyone else until we get this situation resolve

[Red Ryu]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

Cop this guy.

[Red Ryu]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

Cop this guy.

No fucking no.

Do not ever try and direct night actions.

Let the person who has the role do what they feel is right.

Plus

we don't

know if there's even a damn cop in the setup.

Shut up.

wtf no.

Directing who should be copped is far better.

You let people know who you want, if you are the cop, or you tell the cop who may not have a good pick who might be one.

If he dicides to go with a different pick fine by me.

But fuck that, I will direct what I choose.

[Red Ryu]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

why?

like I'm going to follow a silly fruit.

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

Cop this guy.

Why?

You implied one of three things.

1. Dumb town who refuses to look into a read.
2. you have some kind form of PR that is linked with him.
3. You are scum with him.

I am heavily worried about this if you play in a way that makes you not easy to determine alignment, if you play anti-town, refusing to look into reads on a play, then I have to assume you are a solid candidate to be scum and should be copped.

[Red Ryu]

Please show me a game where directing cop actions were beneficial? I don't think directing any type of investigation or protective roles are helpful because we don't know your alignment so we wouldn't know if you are scum trying to point us away from your buddies or you are scum directly fishing for information.

It's a bad idea. Knock it off.

~Mala

http://smashboards.com/threads/dg-archive-mvps.180310/

Take your pick of any mafia game here.

[Red Ryu]

the case on nacho is that nacho rules at mafia

but for some reason this game he is really lame

and his posts are lame

Case-wise, it's a whole lot of nothing. Why are his posts lame? How is this different from his normal meta? Your current case is a lot of Burden of Proficiency. You need more substance if you actually want me to pay any attention and take it seriously.

Him tunneling a null tell is not scummy?

Him refusing to look into the possibility Oversoul is town?

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

None of this is scummy? Because quite frankly it screams him trying to force a lynch on a slot.

[Red Ryu]

the case on nacho is that nacho rules at mafia

but for some reason this game he is really lame

and his posts are lame

Case-wise, it's a whole lot of nothing. Why are his posts lame? How is this different from his normal meta? Your current case is a lot of Burden of Proficiency. You need more substance if you actually want me to pay any attention and take it seriously.

Him tunneling a null tell is not scummy?

Him refusing to look into the possibility Oversoul is town?

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

None of this is scummy? Because quite frankly it screams him trying to force a lynch on a slot.

But that's not what Bacde said. He said the case was: Nacho is great at mafia. His posts have been lame. Therefore, he is scum.
That's not a case. That's Correlation Implies Causation.

Did Nacho ever say that Oversoul was a null tell? Or is Oversoul just a null tell for you?

Nacho claimed he was gonna lynch Oversoul because on the sole fact, he claimed informed townie and said there were two killing roles in them game.

He said the information was not possible and useless.

It should be quite the opposite, but if the possibility of him thinking this as town and just focusing hard on this is up think again.

He never tried to consider intent or alignment with this, he admitted this when I pressed him on this. He never tried to consider or ask Oversoul past this, he stuff and sat on him all phase. He has not tried to get over it either, he has been sitting on that claim being the scummiest thing on earth and refuses to consider other possibilities here.

Again, he is not trying to hunt scum, he is trying to force a lynch to get a lynch.

That is scum intent.

[Red Ryu]

I'm very clearly reading.

I did word badly that the info was not possible but I am damn clear when I say he did not think that info was part of an informed townie and that he did not think. Don't cherry pick this, you didn't address anything else I said in there but that sentence.

He is not considering that it is possible OS was town and kept voting him for his role, his claim was not convenient I have no clue where you are getting this from. There are situations where him claiming like that was legitimate, even that info is helpful when it tells us something we need to know later, 2 killing roles talks about claims or factions later. Nacho refused to consider this and made it clear he did not consider this.

[Red Ryu]

Did Bulbazak even read my last post?

[Red Ryu]

Ryu, I went over everything in your last post in one form or another in my response. The only part I didn't was the part about where claiming that info could be legitimate. What you are failing to take into account in this case is that scum could easily know that information and use it to claim informed townie as a way to gain towncred. In reality, his claim proves absolutely nothing that we couldn't deduce ourselves. He didn't even have a specific number, instead giving himself an out with "at least". Even I could have made that assertion. At no point did Nacho say that the role Informed Townie couldn't exist. He said that an Informed Townie with only that sort of information couldn't exist. The fact that you've continued to push it as hard as you have, despite the evidence against such a view, is mindboggling to me.

No they really wouldn't.

Scum may have an information advantage but they do not know everything town or potentially other factions have. that fact remains Nacho did not have this knowledge at the time that OS was lying so his reactions are still legitimate tells.

And no, we won't know about the kills til we know at end game. If anyone tries to say they know how many people can kill by D2 they should go back to playing newbies. You can't ignore other possibilities, even more so in a game this large.

Nacho did infact say he did not believe his role was legit with that info, which I made the error of posting and you thankfully keep ignoring like an idiot.

He pushed it that far off a nulltell, when he had no knowledge that his info was not legitimate,

that he refused to consider OS was town at all.

The bolded is my biggest issue, town does not do that so easily. Especially just because he claimed informed townie, otherwise he would have unvoted or at least said it was a possibility. The fact is he never did this.

[Red Ryu]

The last large I was in with only one killing role was getting towards three years ago.

As claims go, saying the sun rises in the morning is about the only thing safer.

Content ETA?

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 5 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty, BeautyAndTheBeast)

Red Ryu - 5 (Oversoul, Thor665, Baby Spice, Mac, Bulbazak)

Bulbazak - 3 (Om the Destroyer, fuzzybutternut, EddieFenix)
Oversoul - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Cephrir)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
DLG - 1 (Desperado)

Not Voting - 6 (Syryana, Slandaar, Seanald, ActionDan, Rondar, ArcAngel9)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

[Red Ryu]

Him not even trying to accept the information Oversoul was providing was possible?

He was lying. Oversoul lied about having information. Why do you keep pretending like he never admitted this?!? It's bizarre and unsettling.

That is irrelevant because Nacho did not know this for a fact at the time.

His tells are still there.

[Red Ryu]

Going to bed but,

Why do you refuse to consider that Oversoul is scum?

Your an idiot if you think I never thought this.

[Red Ryu]

You're*

lol English.

[Red Ryu]

Scum may have an information advantage but they do not know everything town or potentially other factions have. that fact remains Nacho did not have this knowledge at the time that OS was lying so his reactions are still legitimate tells.

Depends on the flavor of scum. A SK could safely say that there were at least 2 killing roles in the game. Mafia could too. Mafia would immediately know whether there were multiple Mafia factions are not. If there was one, they could easily extrapolate that there is likely another killing role in the game based on its size, the amount of people it took to review the game, and what little knowledge they possess of the setup, including PR density. If there are multiple mafia factions, he would know it immediately and be able to use that information. Having this information does not automatically prove the Informed Townie claim.

And no, we won't know about the kills til we know at end game. If anyone tries to say they know how many people can kill by D2 they should go back to playing newbies. You can't ignore other possibilities, even more so in a game this large.

However, each night gives us more information on the bigger picture. After 2-3 nights, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to piece together how many killing factions/roles are out there.

Nacho did infact say he did not believe his role was legit with that info, which I made the error of posting and you thankfully keep ignoring like an idiot.

Of course he didn't believe the role was legit given the information given. Anyone could have logically came to the same conclusion. It proves nothing.

He pushed it that far off a nulltell, when he had no knowledge that his info was not legitimate,

that he refused to consider OS was town at all.

Given the timing of the claim, the complete uselessness of the information given, and Oversoul's history of backpedaling in the game, I'd say that the claim was a very strong scumtell. Again, anyone could have logically came to the same conclusion, meaning it would be meaningless information to hand an Informed Townie. Mastin would be playing a cruel trick on Oversoul if that was the case, and seeing as how this game was reviewed by a variety of people, it makes it even more unlikely.

Why do you refuse to consider that Oversoul is scum?

Mafia would not figure that info out on D1 off their size when they lack to knowledge of what town has.

We could try and piece it by D3, but we still could lack info on how kills work, what if they are alternating with opposite scum teams, one gets it on odd night, the other on even nights? What if some of these were town one shots? We don't know this til claims and flip roll around. Off how many people die is not a surefire tell.

But he tried to push OS on this as being scummy, there was no reason to consider him scummy for that action,

he deliberately refused to think OS was town doing that lying or telling the truth.

I am no throwing out the possibility OS is scum, I am pretty dang certain Nacho is scum right now.

[Red Ryu]

Has Oversoul tried moving his vote at all? I'm pretty sure he has just been sitting on that vote.

Bulbs why should I consider OS' claim scummy at the time? Lol at calling Bacde's when your initial response was a straw man, are people seriously this stupid on this site?

[Red Ryu]

Prod dodge.

I got finals sorry. :<

<<< STOP DOING THAT! >_< >>>

[Red Ryu]

So mod said posting prod dodge doesn't count, welp.

Someone tell me about the smaller wagons gaining speed and why they are forming.

[Red Ryu]

Also Gog damn it, designing an entire board game program is a bitch and a half with bugs in the code.

[Red Ryu]

@Mod: I'm gonna be V/LA starting Friday through Sunday, going to ACEN

<<< Acknowledged. >>>

[Red Ryu]

Back from V/LA, Thor is derping hard.

We need to stop distracting from the Nacho wagon.

BB convince me Thor is scum over dumb, I still remain that he is dumb town.

I'll click my ISO button to see where I left off.

Bacde you still my Bro?

[Red Ryu]

God I'm back on page 41, welp, gonna super skim this.

[Red Ryu]

Khan give me your thought process why Nacho is a bad wagon and why people attacking him are scummy. I'm really not seeing why you voted me other than a semi chainsaw. I don't see where you head is at and why.

OverSoul give me your picks right now for scum as of this post and why. You are concerning me as of recent a little more.

Thor sit down, be quiet, and be useful. Your questionnaires has a lot about semantics and it's painful to read. I'm also going to have a long talk with you post game about mechanics because I disagree with tons of stuff your spewing out. I think you're town but god.

Baby Spice is lurking scum, will make case later.

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 7 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Slandaar, Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Om the Destroyer, Baby Spice)

Desperado - 3 (Nachomamma8, Syryana, Cephrir)

fuzzybutternut - 2 (thezmon221, Oversoul)
ArcAngel9 - 2 (DLG, Desperado)
Oversoul - 2 (Kublai Khan, BeautyAndTheBeast)
Red Ryu - 2 (ArcAngel9, Thor665)
Bacde - 1 (Bulbazak)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (fuzzybutternut)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Nero Cain)

Not Voting - 3 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix, Amethyst Kitty)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

At least half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until Tuesday, May 21st.

[Red Ryu]

Wow.

Decided to read Bacde in iso, and wow.

After about 50 posts I came to a realization.

There's not a shred of content in there.

A touch of fake content, but nothing real.

It picks up a little but it takes a while to get there. iso#87 (#1202)

That's the one that fixes things though. That has he relevent comments.

[Nacho]

isn't addressing me as though I have a real case because he wants to sweep this under the rug (and he knows I'm serious about this read and he knows that I can build a smurfing bandwagon by myself), yet he is addressing everyone else and their points

From then on Bacde seems to get a bit more serious.

Nacho's spent a lot of the game with a decent vote count. Nacho does appear to be doing what Bacde accuses him of, ignoring Bacde and defending against others. Could be because Bacde is tunneling like he's part of the great escape, and pushing that as a defense is better than actually defending.
ie: It's the other people voting him that Nacho has to worry about because he thinks he can dismiss Bc.

Which means a trip through Nacho's iso tommorow.

With the bolded, you're reading surface level.

[Red Ryu]

Spice,

Vote Nacho

Since Bc asked so nicely.

Hey Fuzzy, this is not open 495.

Why did you 180 after gaining suspicion on Bacde, you were saying you thought his content was lacking and had none, but you vote with him anyways?

You said he was getting more serious, but what changed to make you want to go from, "semi fake/no content" to "let's join BC?" None of thee posts in-between are giving me an impression of what changed your mind.

[Red Ryu]

Spice,

Vote Nacho

Since Bc asked so nicely.

Hey Fuzzy, this is not open 495.

Why did you 180 after gaining suspicion on Bacde, you were saying you thought his content was lacking and had none, but you vote with him anyways?

You said he was getting more serious, but what changed to make you want to go from, "semi fake/no content" to "let's join BC?" None of thee posts in-between are giving me an impression of what changed your mind.

You quoted me identifying the post.

Answer my question, don't dodge it.

[Red Ryu]

Fence sitting being scummy depends on context.

[Red Ryu]

Moar votes on Desp!

BabySpice, stop making poetry and vote Desp.

Bacde, stop tunneling townies and vote Desp. That goes for the rest of you peeps on the Nacho wagon too.

Cephrir... eh, you do whatever you're doing, we'll lynch you tomorrow. Though if you want to be pro-town and bus your bud, we'd be all for that.

Thor, Slandaar, Disney hydra! Stop circle jerking and vote Desp!

Elaborate on this post.

Also why you responded to these specific people?

[Red Ryu]

Back from V/LA, Thor is derping hard.

We need to stop distracting from the Nacho wagon.

BB convince me Thor is scum over dumb, I still remain that he is dumb town.

I'll click my ISO button to see where I left off.

Bacde you still my Bro?

Are you still pushing me because my Oversoul push was too aggressive?

Yes, still think you are scum. You tunneled him on a null tell and didn't have the mindset a townie would. I haven't read everything from where I left off but my vote and stance remains.

[Red Ryu]

Bacde, I do appreciate you defending me, but I would prefer if I responded because it lets others read me and understand me better. You stepping in does taint my responses.by

Baby Spice needs to be vig'd.

[Red Ryu]

How did I know he was lying as scum?

Whether you knew he was lying or not is irrelevant.

The fact is how you pushed him was not something I would see a townie do. You didn't open up to the fact if he was town or not, you stuck to tunneling him as scum and never tried to actually get a read. You made judgement without trying to verify if you were right or not. You're experienced, not a newbie, is so I know to expect you to not do things like this as town.

[Red Ryu]

Khan, give me more substance than that, why are you afraid to out your reason?

[Red Ryu]

Bacde show me why Nacho is not scum off what you read recently.

Vote: Baby Spice

This wagon I can defiantly get behind though.

Why were people voting Desp though, I forgot/didn't get far enough to see why.

[Red Ryu]

Bacde show me why Nacho is not scum off what you read recently.

Vote: Baby Spice

This wagon I can defiantly get behind though.

Why were people voting Desp though, I forgot/didn't get far enough to see why.

tbh I'm not convinced nacho is scum anymore

i dunno if it was a specific post or what

I think its likely that he is scum and he manipulated me to somehow feel this way, if that makes any sense

anyway AA9 is defo scum so we should lynch there

Give me a few quotes or post numbers, I still think he is scum but I am actually a lot more sure Baby Spice's slot is scum.

[Red Ryu]

I checked--we're the third-longest D1 ever on site, and counting. Yay, us?

What this means is that we need to quit dithering and decide on a lynch.

EddieFenix and Amethyst Kitty need to place a vote. Now.

ThAdmiral, PeregrineV, and penguin_alien are replacements and therefore get a grace period. But I encourage them to catch up and vote.

fuzzybutternut, Nero Cain, Slandaar, & BeautyAndTheBeast either need to make a very moving case to build their wagon, or move their vote.

Enough arguing. Let's lynch.

Lynch the slot, not the player.

If the previous player was scummy, that slot is still scummy.

Good advice from the best mafia player I have ever played with.

[Red Ryu]

VOTE: nachomamma8

nvm he's scum

I messed up the past couple of days

I completely understand if I've shot my credibility in the foot

but to be honestly not that many people thought I was that credible

doesn't matter though, I'm right

nacho is scum

Bacde your playing like scatterbrain me does.

You are all over the place but give me a little with your mindset more here.

[Red Ryu]

sorry to make you stop flying nacho, its just that you have a scum PM

I knew it wouldn't last.

yeah scum are good at manipulating me in most of my games tbh

but then I can reread my old posts and go "why am I thinking something different than what I argued before? these posts are awesome!"

Stop lying you nailed me and AP in that newbie.

[Red Ryu]

Also, I'm showing symptoms of a fever. This means I might be knocked out of commission tomorrow. Add in my weekend V/LA and Memorial Day, and it is possible I will not be posting until the day of the deadline. (Tuesday.)

Feel better soon.

<<< Already am. So long as I don't get too cocky, my recovery should be swift. >>>

[Red Ryu]

Ryu, why were you so fixated on the fact that I was voting you when you were supporting me earlier?

You haven't been moving your vote around, it was sitting on me for the longest time with really no sense of direction anywhere else in terms of what you were looking at.

[Red Ryu]

Ryu, why were you so fixated on the fact that I was voting you when you were supporting me earlier?

You haven't been moving your vote around, it was sitting on me for the longest time with really no sense of direction anywhere else in terms of what you were looking at.

Why me in particular? Thor hadn't moved his vote up to that point either.

I know where he was coming from and saw his reasoning, hense town.

Not you.

[Red Ryu]

Why did an OS wagon pop up?

[Red Ryu]

OS really hasn't been that helpful, he's right on that point.

That being lynchworthy, I don't agree.

[Red Ryu]

Vote: Nacho

[Red Ryu]

UNVOTE: Oversoul

I'm good waiting to see how his play develops.

Bacde and Red Ryu, what does each of you think is the single top piece of evidence that Nachomamma8 is scum?

Amethyst Kitty, do you think Desperado is scum after the last couple pages?

How he approached OS still remains the grimiest thing he has done this game.

Saw the OS claim, do not want to lynch that + those posts come off as townie.

Can we lynch Nacho now?

[Red Ryu]

B&B I'm not a mod on this site but dude you need to seriously chill out.

[Red Ryu]

B&B I'm not a mod on this site but dude you need to seriously chill out.

this has nothing to do with you and this looks like opportunistic scum noise in order to look look busy, concerned and productive.

welcome to my scum pile

You're being a douche to others at times and need to shut up.

There is a line.

[Red Ryu]

B&B I'm not a mod on this site but dude you need to seriously chill out.

this has nothing to do with you and this looks like opportunistic scum noise in order to look look busy, concerned and productive.

welcome to my scum pile

You're being a douche to others at times and need to shut up.

There is a line.

excuse me?

I have not said not one negative thing to anybody in this game ever since mastin said to cool it down

the first time

so why the fuck am I a douche? I have asked majiffy to dial it back cos I don't want to get force replaced since I spent a lot of time and energy in this game and there are a lot of players I like playing with or am interested in playing with plus its a mastin game.

and about lines. so let me get this straight. it is perfectly acceptable for nero to say

majiffy has fucked me into stupidity

? that it is perfectly acceptable that the personal details of my sex life are being used to put me down and discredit me? you are okay with that? seriously? not even if it hurts my feelings?

this whole thing does not even concern you, it is between majiffy, the players involved and mastin. you sliding in here to chime in when I have asked everyone to step back and take a breather so that there are no ill feelings or force replacements when it has nothing to do with you looks like a subtle form of buddying and fanning of the flames so that the situation worsens is scummy to the core. there is zero town motivation in that. if I was not so convinced nero was scum I would be voting for you right now.

I don't think I am the one who needs to stfu here

It's not, but retaliation is 90% of the time not needed.

It's not just him you're are doing it to either.

[Red Ryu]

I'd compromise Desperado lynch, but I'm not a fan of a B&B lynch.

[Red Ryu]

Vote:Desp

I'm being reminded why I don't like long deadlines.

[Red Ryu]

Can we stop making gog damn counter wagons to the 2-3 people have a mass amount of votes on, this is what causes a no lynch.

idgaf about the eddie case right now because he's not Nacho, Desp, or OS.

We need 13 within 2 days, so stop with the bullshit counter wagons and go with something that is actually viable. /drunk

Not trying to be a dick but we need to actually get a lynch and not waster 108 pages and not even lynch.

Spoiler: <<< This extra effort better be worth it, since I'm going out of my way to give another late mod-edited-votecount

Oversoul - 9 (Desperado, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, PeregrineV, Nero Cain)

Nachomamma8 - 4 (Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Bacde, Oversoul)

Desperado - 4 (ArcAngel9, Thor665, Om the Destroyer, Red Rui)
Nero Cain - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)
EddieFenix - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)

Not Voting - 4 (ThAdmiral, EddieFenix, penguin_alien, Haylen)

With

24

alive, it took

13

to lynch!
Oversoul was at L-4!

[Red Ryu]

Can we stop making gog damn counter wagons to the 2-3 people have a mass amount of votes on, this is what causes a no lynch.

idgaf about the eddie case right now because he's not Nacho, Desp, or OS.

We need 13 within 2 days, so stop with the bullshit counter wagons and go with something that is actually viable. /drunk

Not trying to be a dick but we need to actually get a lynch and not waster 108 pages and not even lynch.

There is a plurality rule

Your attempts to appear town are fooling no one

[Red Ryu]

OS is L3
Desp is L6

[Red Ryu]

1 day left, Still would prefer Desp over OS, and Nacho before both.

[Red Ryu]

I don't want a nl, but OS lynch is shitty.

*sigh*

we need flips.

Vote: OS

[Red Ryu]

Go Scum.

[Red Ryu]

This went well, glad we won even though I did nothing for 4 months :/

[Red Ryu]

I've retired the D1-massclaim suggestion as a game opener, mostly because this game has probably shot any possibility of it ever leading anywhere productive again. But I really

do

think it's a very viable town strategy, and I do believe in the kind of analysis on it I did in this game. You may have noticed that I didn't discuss this with my scumbuddies in pre-game, and consequently 2/3 of them ended up in the scum pile (and IIRC, I kind of cheated to keep RedRyu out of there). Bulba just so happened to have strong feelings on the matter (which dictated what he perceived to be the "town-him" reaction), leaving Cephrir as the only scum who instinctively reacted in a pro-town manner. Notably, not a single scum supported the scheme, lending credence to my assumption that scum

really

hate D1 massclaim. If you had taken my strong town list from that analysis and ran with it, a lot of problems could have been avoided (naturally, I was inclined to "doubt" those reads myself... ). Some food for thought.

Ultimately, this game ended up being a rollercoaster of emotions, which, win or lose, is my favorite kind of game. Thanks everyone for playing, and thanks Mastin for modding and particularly for the brilliant flavor (your scummy nom will be posted as soon as you make your flavor QT available :p)!

I may have some thoughts on the set-up once Mastin has posted his own.

almost 100% of time.

If town can benefit from a D1 mass claim, the set-up needs tweeking. Scum benefits a lot from that information, I'll always disapprove of a mass claim as town or scum.