NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

mastin2 · Post Post #2100 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:50 am

Forty-first Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "Getting back into the groove" votecount

)

Desperado - 8 (Nachomamma8, Syryana, Cephrir, Om the Destroyer, ArcAngel9, Bacde, Thor665, Bulbazak)

Nachomamma8 - 6 (Red Ryu, Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Baby Spice, Desperado, BeautyAndTheBeast)

fuzzybutternut - 2 (thezmon221, Oversoul)
Oversoul - 1 (Kublai Khan)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (fuzzybutternut)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Nero Cain)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)

Not Voting - 4 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix, Amethyst Kitty, PeregrineV)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

If deadline were to hit now, Desperado would be lynched.

New deadline is Tuesday, May 28th, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-28 12:31:59).

At least half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until Tuesday, May 21st.
Nero Cain is V/LA until Thursday, May 23rd.
fuzzybutternut is V/LA until Thursday, May 23rd.
Seeking a Hanzo_5 replacement now.

Spoiler: changes from last official votecount

Spoiler: Player Vote History

Spoiler: Voting History

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2101 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:50 am

NO

<<< No to what? Me? Nacho, how could you?

>>>

Oversoul · Post Post #2102 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:51 am

In post 2073, Bulbazak wrote:Oversoul: His play has just felt fake. His informed townie claim was a lie, which he later admitted to, and he contradicted himself on the reasons why he claimed. He said he did it for reactions, and then he isn't able to judge any of the reactions? But what really gets me is how often he backpedals. I mean, seriously, go back and read his ISO. It's backpedal central in there.

Obviously.

I'm on a bike.

We need to stop arguing over theory and just lynch people. This game is getting too long and it is killing activity.

We should be killing fuzzy because of his play and most importantly because of his V/LA comments that are entirely emotional when there was no need and also sarcastic when there was no need.

He is trying to feign his town self.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2103 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:52 am

We can just lynch Desperado.

Slandaar · Post Post #2104 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:53 am

In post 2097, Nachomamma8 wrote: You're arguing that my meta shift is too dramatic to be coming from town. I've posted recent games of me seeing massclaim as beneficial to town, meaning that wait: meta shift's not too dramatic because it already happened.

That quote is taken directly from the post talking about Thors 'Nacho didn't say it is good for scum' (In whatever game it was)

So, how is it relevant again? did you read my post Nacho?

Kublai Khan · Post Post #2105 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:54 am

In post 1977, Red Ryu wrote:Khan, give me more substance than that, why are you afraid to out your reason?

It's your first three posts. You joked about being a scum role, then continued the joke for two more posts. I can't fully explain why (which bugs me), but I've caught scum on that tell.

@someone on the Desperado wagon: Can you summarize the scum-play? Something in the form of "he did X which is scummy because Y". No need for quotes, I'll ISO-read after work tonight.

Oversoul · Post Post #2106 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 5:55 am

In post 2103, Nachomamma8 wrote:We can just lynch Desperado.

I haven't looked at him.
What are his sins?

Bulbazak · Post Post #2107 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:05 am

In post 2081, Bacde wrote:
In post 2069, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 2067, Syryana wrote:
In post 2066, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 2054, Bacde wrote:hey guys lets unvote nacho and lynch desp plz

ok thanks
Where's this Desperado push coming from?
I asked him to, Bulb.
I'm not sure I buy that, especially with how hard he was pushing the Nacho wagon. The shift is disconcerting.
lol

bacde is voting nacho--bulb: wtf bacde is scum!

bacde switches and votes desp--bulb: wtf bacde is scum!

bacde exists--bulb: wtf bacde is scum!

ad naseum

That is a blatant misrep, and you know it. It was a simple question. You had pushed Nacho so hard for so long, that the switch to Desperado with no reasoning seemed strange. It looked like an opportunistic jump to me.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2108 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:24 am

In post 2104, Slandaar wrote:That quote is taken directly from the post talking about Thors 'Nacho didn't say it is good for scum' (In whatever game it was)

I took that quote to grab your attention.
I read your post. I obviously don't agree with you.

Kublai Khan · Post Post #2109 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:32 am

In post 2105, Kublai Khan wrote:@someone on the Desperado wagon: Can you summarize the scum-play? Something in the form of "he did X which is scummy because Y". No need for quotes, I'll ISO-read after work tonight.

Bulbasaur

: You do this.

Kublai Khan · Post Post #2110 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:33 am

In post 2105, Kublai Khan wrote:@someone on the Desperado wagon: Can you summarize the scum-play? Something in the form of "he did X which is scummy because Y". No need for quotes, I'll ISO-read after work tonight.

Bulbasaur

Bulbazak

: You do this.

Desperado · Post Post #2111 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:33 am

In post 2106, Oversoul wrote:
In post 2103, Nachomamma8 wrote:We can just lynch Desperado.
I haven't looked at him.
What are his sins?

As far as I can tell, this is why each person is voting me:

Nachomamma8 - Not even sure honestly, I'm just scum. I've made my opinion on Nacho's case and treatment of me pretty clear.
Syryana - Not sure, said he had a case that he never posted, just bacde'ing it up
Cephrir - Blatantly sheeping Nacho (a couple of his posts are almost carbon copies)
Om the Destroyer - I'm using a lot of words but not giving a lot of content. No quotes provided or explanation
ArcAngel9 - She admits it's OMGUS, beyond that I don't know
Bacde - No reason given
Thor665 - No reason given
Bulbazak - Slave to his book of logical fallacies, thinks I scumslipped because the way I'm using confirmation bias is different from his

Suffice it to say I'm not really impressed by this wagon.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2112 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:34 am

In post 2105, Kublai Khan wrote:@someone on the Desperado wagon: Can you summarize the scum-play? Something in the form of "he did X which is scummy because Y". No need for quotes, I'll ISO-read after work tonight.

I think that him trying to compare himself to another one of my townreads (CTD) and trying to argue that I can't have a townread on him based on similar cases was scummy because it was decently clear why I had the townread on CTD in the first place, so him taking the "you can't have a scumread on me because one of your townreads position" seemed like he was trying to escape based on a technicality as opposed to any genuine opinion.

His behavior while I attacked him initially was scummy because he focused mostly on me and didn't scumhunt elsewhere; when I confronted him on it, he tried to squirm out of it several ways, then suddenly jumped off on ArcAngel on a case that he just wanted to show "support" for. It's scummy because he was adjusting his play to please the crowd when he started to get heat, and his reaction afterwards of "I'm just fucked no matter what I do" is scummy and hypocritical, considering he let Bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunneling. His dodginess while being questioned also helped too; when I asked him about the arcangel vote, he never explain why he decided to move except that my wagon wasn't going anywhere and he thought he would show more support if he put a vote on it. He moved back when he started to get votes, but that was the survival instinct kicking in; if all he wanted to do was show support for the vote, then deciding to vote me just because he's getting more votes doesn't make any sense at all.

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #2113 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:39 am

In post 2085, Nachomamma8 wrote: you, bacde, thor, syryana, bulba, Om/HD, eddiefenix, arc, CTD, thez is the strong town pile. cephrir probably belongs in there, but I'm a little hesitant.
seanald is a decent townread for latching onto bacde in the way he did, red ryu i would call town but he's been hard to talk to lately, nero is probably town, but hesitant.
CTD I occasionally have paranoid flashes on but I still think he's probably town.

you know what this feels like nacho this feels like divagib! yaye! I like this list I can work with this.

I would add slaandy in there probable town, his reasoning makes sense and I totally get what he is seeing in thor cos I am seeing it too. his staying from us is weird but his last few posts have come from a town mindset. he seem to work well with others, seems a but of a loner. I have been getting good vibes from sealderina I think it has to do with the timing with the flow of the game he feels in step.

re: ak <----- feels completely out of step I mean we are bopping to reggae and they are listening to some internal music that makes them vaguely resemble an epileptic chicken. also where did overlysoul go I don't want to lose sight of him.

you how I am always banging on about the rhythm and flow of a game? this is what I am talking about. I am bookmarking this post cos later in the game we can come back to this later after a couple of flips. this is the first time on this site that I have felt this good about the arc of the flow of the day round I think it means we are on the right track.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2114 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:53 am

In post 2113, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:also where did overlysoul go I don't want to lose sight of him.

Oversoul worries me most, I think.
I still don't think he's scum but I know that he's a weak read for me.

Bulbazak · Post Post #2115 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 6:53 am

In post 2110, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 2105, Kublai Khan wrote:@someone on the Desperado wagon: Can you summarize the scum-play? Something in the form of "he did X which is scummy because Y". No need for quotes, I'll ISO-read after work tonight.

Bulbasaur
Bulbazak
: You do this.

In post 2073, Bulbazak wrote:
Desperado
: His argument with Nacho was bad, but it was the entire slip regarding Nacho being prey to confirmation bias that tipped him from null/scum to scum.

In post 2111, Desperado wrote: Bulbazak - Slave to his book of logical fallacies, thinks I scumslipped because the way I'm using confirmation bias is different from his

First, finding and identifying logical fallacies are a good way to spot scum, as they tend to use them. Second, in order for someone to be trapped in confirmation bias, that person has to be town, because they have to be blind to actual alignments. Scum are not blind to everyone else's alignment, thus they can never be trapped in confirmation bias. By saying Nacho had a confirmation bias on you, you were calling Nacho town, plain and simple. Either you had reversed your scumread of him, which later posts prove incorrect, or you KNOW him to be town, and thus you scum slipped. Confirmation bias requires that not knowing, which scum are incapable of. It's not "my interpretation", it's the actual definition of the term, and your trying to say otherwise either shows a profound ignorance or desperate scum floundering on your part. I prefer the second explanation.

Desperado · Post Post #2116 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:03 am

In post 2112, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2105, Kublai Khan wrote:@someone on the Desperado wagon: Can you summarize the scum-play? Something in the form of "he did X which is scummy because Y". No need for quotes, I'll ISO-read after work tonight.
I think that him trying to compare himself to another one of my townreads (CTD) and trying to argue that I can't have a townread on him based on similar cases was scummy because it was decently clear why I had the townread on CTD in the first place, so him taking the "you can't have a scumread on me because one of your townreads position" seemed like he was trying to escape based on a technicality as opposed to any genuine opinion.

His behavior while I attacked him initially was scummy because he focused mostly on me and didn't scumhunt elsewhere; when I confronted him on it, he tried to squirm out of it several ways, then suddenly jumped off on ArcAngel on a case that he just wanted to show "support" for. It's scummy because he was adjusting his play to please the crowd when he started to get heat, and his reaction afterwards of "I'm just fucked no matter what I do" is scummy and hypocritical, considering he let Bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunneling. His dodginess while being questioned also helped too; when I asked him about the arcangel vote, he never explain why he decided to move except that my wagon wasn't going anywhere and he thought he would show more support if he put a vote on it. He moved back when he started to get votes, but that was the survival instinct kicking in; if all he wanted to do was show support for the vote, then deciding to vote me just because he's getting more votes doesn't make any sense at all.

See this is the problem, basically none of this accurately reflects what happened.

I never "argued" that you can't townread CTD and not me, I was ASKING YOU why that was the case and you called me scummy for asking.

I "focused mostly on you" during a three day period, on a weekend, in which I made 6 posts and 3 were relevant to you and 3 weren't.

I didn't "suddenly" jump off on an Arc case, Syry pointed something out and I backed him up on it.

I wasn't adjusting my play to please the crowd because my play never adjusted...please show me the difference between my play in the first 1000 posts and the second 1000 posts.

It's hypocritical for me to "let bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunnelling" when he was tunnelling on a scum read?

I didn't have to explain why I moved again because I already had, multiple times. And I put my vote back on you after Arc responded to my vote...you know, the whole reason I put it there in the first place?

Nacho is scum, Ceph and AA are the most obvious teammates, beyond that I'm not really sure. The rest probably aren't on my wagon yet...I have bacde, syry, bulb, and thor as town

Desperado · Post Post #2117 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:04 am

In post 2115, Bulbazak wrote:First, finding and identifying logical fallacies are a good way to spot scum, as they tend to use them. Second, in order for someone to be trapped in confirmation bias, that person has to be town, because they have to be blind to actual alignments. Scum are not blind to everyone else's alignment, thus they can never be trapped in confirmation bias. By saying Nacho had a confirmation bias on you, you were calling Nacho town, plain and simple. Either you had reversed your scumread of him, which later posts prove incorrect, or you KNOW him to be town, and thus you scum slipped. Confirmation bias requires that not knowing, which scum are incapable of. It's not "my interpretation", it's the actual definition of the term, and your trying to say otherwise either shows a profound ignorance or desperate scum floundering on your part. I prefer the second explanation.

Please tell me more about how scum can't interpret events in a biased way.

Desperado · Post Post #2118 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:06 am

"It's hypocritical for me to "let bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunnelling" when he was tunnelling on a scum read

that I share

?"

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #2119 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:06 am

In post 2102, Oversoul wrote:
In post 2073, Bulbazak wrote:Oversoul: His play has just felt fake. His informed townie claim was a lie, which he later admitted to, and he contradicted himself on the reasons why he claimed. He said he did it for reactions, and then he isn't able to judge any of the reactions? But what really gets me is how often he backpedals. I mean, seriously, go back and read his ISO. It's backpedal central in there.
Obviously.

I'm on a bike.

We need to stop arguing over theory and just lynch people.
This game is getting too long and it is killing activity.

We should be killing fuzzy because of his play and most importantly because of his V/LA comments that are entirely emotional when there was no need and also sarcastic when there was no need.

He is trying to feign his town self.

^this

feels out of step

wrt the bold: the game is really long cos activity is super high which is the opposite of "killing activity". this post looks like town is on the brink of finding each other and scum are getting uncomfortable cos they are getting squeezed out. scummiest post in the game IMO.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2120 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:10 am

In post 2116, Desperado wrote:See this is the problem, basically none of this accurately reflects what happened.

I never "argued" that you can't townread CTD and not me, I was ASKING YOU why that was the case and you called me scummy for asking.

I "focused mostly on you" during a three day period, on a weekend, in which I made 6 posts and 3 were relevant to you and 3 weren't.

I didn't "suddenly" jump off on an Arc case, Syry pointed something out and I backed him up on it.

I wasn't adjusting my play to please the crowd because my play never adjusted...please show me the difference between my play in the first 1000 posts and the second 1000 posts.

It's hypocritical for me to "let bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunnelling" when he was tunnelling on a scum read?

I didn't have to explain why I moved again because I already had, multiple times. And I put my vote back on you after Arc responded to my vote...you know, the whole reason I put it there in the first place?

We've gone though this literally a hundred times.
Do you really want to go through it again? I don't.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2121 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:11 am

In post 2118, Desperado wrote:"It's hypocritical for me to "let bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunnelling" when he was tunnelling on a scum read that I share?"

Yes.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2122 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:11 am

In post 2119, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:^this

feels out of step

wrt the bold: the game is really long cos activity is super high which is the opposite of "killing activity". this post looks like town is on the brink of finding each other and scum are getting uncomfortable cos they are getting squeezed out. scummiest post in the game IMO.

I agree.

Desperado · Post Post #2123 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:15 am

In post 2120, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 2116, Desperado wrote:See this is the problem, basically none of this accurately reflects what happened.

I never "argued" that you can't townread CTD and not me, I was ASKING YOU why that was the case and you called me scummy for asking.

I "focused mostly on you" during a three day period, on a weekend, in which I made 6 posts and 3 were relevant to you and 3 weren't.

I didn't "suddenly" jump off on an Arc case, Syry pointed something out and I backed him up on it.

I wasn't adjusting my play to please the crowd because my play never adjusted...please show me the difference between my play in the first 1000 posts and the second 1000 posts.

It's hypocritical for me to "let bacde push my wagon a loooong way without commenting on his tunnelling" when he was tunnelling on a scum read?

I didn't have to explain why I moved again because I already had, multiple times. And I put my vote back on you after Arc responded to my vote...you know, the whole reason I put it there in the first place?
We've gone though this literally a hundred times.
Do you really want to go through it again? I don't.

You're right, we don't need to go through it again...anyone who actually examines our ISOs together in depth will realize that you haven't been interested in engaging me from the beginning, you just needed an unexpected ML target that you could sprinkle in some surefire towntells (confirmation bias!) on to so that all of your friends could feel good about themselves for finally being able to townread you and not have to lynch you day one. Mission accomplished!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #2124 (ISO) » Tue May 21, 2013 7:17 am

Nice potshot.