Hi Thor welcome back to reality where we are playing a normal game not some wacky monstrosity obviously something can be antitown and help town in a bastard game where if the town loses they win but that does not aid your argument does it?In post 2040, Thor665 wrote: Mass name claims and Mass PR claims can both easily have this effect.
Immediately off the top of my head - lyncher who knows role name but not player name of target in a mass name claim situation.
I am pretty sure you understand this.
In other words your example is not applicable and quite desperate.
Again; we are in a normal game where nameclaims do not exist so your argument does not hold however; say it does; What you are saying here is a lyncher finds their target as you say a townsperson, but this does not help the scum?In post 2040, Thor665 wrote: The Mass name claim is of negligible gain to scum and town usually, but a third party is dramatically aided by it.
Lyncher targets are almost invariably town.
Therefore that would be anti-town, benefit a scum, and not benefit mafia.
So, let me get this straight, you think a guy who wants to lynch a townie and no other person will not help scum? at worst he will act as a distraction for scum at best he will help lynch a townie for them.
Oh jesus christIn post 2040, Thor665 wrote: I have played in a newbie game where a JKer was facing off with a single scum - he indicated who he would jail.
The scum no killed for hijinks.
The JKer forgot to send in his jail - a massively anti-town action...but in this case it helped catch the scum.
I was the scum.
I actually think he idiot savanted twice in that game, and both times it ended up helping town even though it was painfully anti-town play that he was so untrustworthy.
But this is all silly debate at this stage - I just wanted to show I could do it.
In this bastard game this one time a super powerful townie with hundreds of night action choices forgot to send in his night action and then the game ended and town won because the secret town win condition was for him to not send in a night action before scum killed him.
Specific examples do not mean anything we are talking generally something that is anti-town helps scum in most situations and those it doesn't you only know it doesn't after the event ie hindsight. If someone believe the massclaim is terrible for town they must also believe it helps scum the two go hand in hand.
This is in essence what I said, you debate it with this nonsense.
If I am a cop and never send in my night actions, am I helping scum? YES.
So, you say not sending in actions is antitown and does not help scum? well it clearly does help scum for example, you could have just killed the JailKeeper and been done with it instead of playing some pointless gambits.
How about if he had targetted you and you submitted to kill him? he forgets, you won the game.
your example is so bad and is not a sensible argument.
Lets come back to present and what we are talking about
If someone thinks massclaim is bad for town in a NORMAL game; do you think they think it benefits scum?
The answer is obviously yes, so what are you debating with me?
I have had enough responding to you
Congratulations, you showed me!In post 2040, Thor665 wrote: But this is all silly debate at this stage - I just wanted to show I could do it.
OK, if anyone doesn't understand why Thor is scum I will explain it;
Thor: Nacho never said Massclaim helped scum
Sland: Well he said its terrible for town its the same thing
Thor: NUH UH
Sland: Show me one anti town thing that doesn't help scum
Thor: LOL WELL IF THERES A LYNCHER... NAMECLAIMS (debateable as is but don't exist in normals hence I used the bastard example, its irrelevant to the point when we are playing and talking about normal games)
Thor: Oh and this newbie game this one time!
So, the newbie example looks correct except its a one off and only in hindsight can you say it helped town you would not think it would; forgetting to submit night actions DOES help scum generally this is obvious.
Go back to the massclaim argument; Nacho thinks its terrible for town; it might not be; but if he THINKS it is he must also think it benefits scum. Just like in a game where not submitting a night action from a PR happened you would think that is terrible and benefits scum even if you luck out and it helped you.
Summary;
Thor's arguments are just really really bad. He nitpicked my wording horribly, got called on it then kept trying to argue out of it with more nonsense.
Throw in the way he had no clue what KK was saying which is laughable in itself...
Thor isn't this terrible as town.
VOTE: Thor
Lynch him today.
