NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Kublai Khan]

So now we're accussing Oversoul of not being good at the game...I don't disagree that his contributions have been weak, but are they scummy? I mean, is semi-sheeping CTD scummy now?

He didn't sheep CrashTextDummie. He just copied the format. CrashTextDummie did a reaction test and had a clear general idea of how to interpret the results. There was logic. Oversoul made the lists, then.. uh.. just kinda trailed... off with no conclusion. It wasn't a reaction test, it was a backpedal. He's scum.

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 8 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Slandaar, Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Om the Destroyer, Baby Spice)

fuzzybutternut - 3 (thezmon221, Cephrir, Oversoul)

ArcAngel9 - 3 (DLG, Syryana, Desperado)
Oversoul - 2 (Kublai Khan, BeautyAndTheBeast)
Red Ryu - 2 (ArcAngel9, Thor665)
Bacde - 1 (Bulbazak)
Desperado - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (fuzzybutternut)

Not Voting - 3 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix, Amethyst Kitty)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

[Oversoul]

It wasn't a reaction test, it was a backpedal. He's scum.

Nope.

[Nachomamma8]

Comment on my Oversoul case please.

I saw those things, then decided in the end that he still probably wasn't scum.

I'd love it if you killed that part of your town meta though, just saying.

I'd love it if I killed my off games in my town meta too, but we all have off games. I think my play earlier was underwhelming, but I wouldn't call it bad. I think my play right now is perfectly fine.

@Nacho - you can come play here too, it looks tasty, like red velevt cake, Mmmmm.

Red Ryu has a bad case. I'm not convinced that he's scum.

It isn't. If I had 10 votes I would have 7 of them on you, 2 on DLG, and one on AA9, but I only have one.

Then why are you voting AA9 considering I'm a stronger read than AA9 for you AND I'm closer to getting lynched?

Honestly don't even know what you're talking about. I'm saying that you are so far beyond confirmation bias in your approach to me that we might as well just not engage one another. First I'm scummy because I'm only responding when you post, now I'm scummy because I'm responding to other things and moving my vote without updating you on where you stand in my reads. I'm sure if I hadn't posted any content the last few days you'd be saying I was scum for that, too. You're creating situations where I'm scum no matter what happens, hence, so far beyond confirmation bias.

If I was scum, I wouldn't have confirmation bias.

Also, if I'm honest, I think I just consider Red to be the most likely to be lynched of players I want to lynch. B&tB and Slandaar both seem immune from getting votes for some reason.

Slandaar is the read that I would join you on. B&B probably never, Red Ryu probably won't unless he fucks up bad when he comes back.

[Desperado]

I already explained why I'm voting AA9, more than once in fact. You even quoted it. Syry brought up an interesting point about AA9 that I could support. I'm free to move my vote where I please, and if/when I decide that the AA9 issue has run it's course, you can bet your ass I'll put it back on you.

"If I was scum, I wouldn't have confirmation bias" is this self-meta, or what?

[Nachomamma8]

No, that doesn't explain why you are voting AA9. You want me lynched, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[Nero Cain]

USER WAS MODKILLED FOR THIS POST.

vote:B&TB

[Desperado]

zzzzz my post outlining why I'm voting AA9 doesn't explain why I'm voting AA9? I want both of you lynched.

lol a wikipedia link. "...or when they interpret it (information) in a biased way." That's you in a nutshell.

[Nachomamma8]

zzzzz my post outlining why I'm voting AA9 doesn't explain why I'm voting AA9? I want both of you lynched.

Right. So, again. Why aren't you voting the person who is closer to a lynch?

lol a wikipedia link. "...or when they interpret it (information) in a biased way." That's you in a nutshell.

You're saying that I'm interpreting the information in a way that confirms my belief that you are scum. Which infers that I'm town who is interpreting the information wrong and not scum that is twisting the information around to make you look bad.

[Desperado]

Because your wagon doesn't appear to be going anywhere and I'm more interested in AA9 right now.

Alternatively, you're scum pushing an unexpected wagon (which, as bacde pointed out, you would know would work in your favor as opposed to joining the biggest rival wagon) as a response to a huge wagon on you, interpreting my behavior (no matter what it is, even if it contradicts an earlier instance) as scummy. You only talk about my early play, which "hurt a fair bit," in generalities and blanket statements, and when I pushed you on them you either: called me scummy for asking you about them, or changed what you originally said into something else. You aren't engaging me in good faith, you're talking through me and then calling me scummy for whatever I do in response.

[Thor665]

I'd love it if I killed my off games in my town meta too, but we all have off games. I think my play earlier was underwhelming, but I wouldn't call it bad. I think my play right now is perfectly fine.

Meh, if you are playing perfectly fine and were town, this wagon wouldn't be on you.

Slandaar is the read that I would join you on. B&B probably never, Red Ryu probably won't unless he Smurfs up bad when he comes back.

Vote Slandaar?
Also, why does Red not look like a good case to you, but you're wide open to the idea of voting him if he does a nebulous 'something'?

Because your wagon doesn't appear to be going anywhere and I'm more interested in AA9 right now.

If his wagon is going nowhere then what wagon is?
Are you serious with this gak, because I'm almost tempted to sheep Nacho at this stage.

[Thor665]

He didn't sheep CrashTextDummie. He just copied the format.

So...copying the format is scummy now?
You issue is that he didn't have good analysis - why did you even bring CTD into it?

[Desperado]

If his wagon is going nowhere then what wagon is?
Are you serious with this gak, because I'm almost tempted to sheep Nacho at this stage.

And I'm almost tempted to believe that you deliberately misread that to say that you might sheep Nacho. By "your wagon isn't going anywhere" I meant "it is unlikely to dissipate before day's end," meaning that when I'm done with AA9 I know the Nacho wagon will still be available to me. Nacho is questioning me about moving my vote off of him as if it's scummy when he had just been calling me scummy for only paying attention to him. So, like I said, no-win situation for me that he created.

[Thor665]

I did misunderstand your 'not going anywhere' point to read as 'it's not going to lynch'.

Want to vote Slandaar instead?
Do you even have a read on that slot?
It's not like AA is even around to react to your wimp vote, so why not do something proactive with it?

[Slandaar]

I found out that I couldn't find a solid reason for his meta shift.
I found many examples of him as town and scum opposing masclaim.

I then asked myself, if I was going to do a large meta shift in my playstyle, would I do it first as scum based on a lie, or as town based on reality.

The answer is pretty obvious unless you're derpy.
There's no value in a scumvantage way in him advancing this opinion change nor in how he did it.
Therefore it's not a scumtell.

The advantage is he gets a massclaim which he believes is terrible for town on D1.

So, we know the advantage;
I have said I do think it is a little obvious for him to do it as scum but if he believes that getting a massclaim D1 is good enough to risk being lynched for his team then he will do it as scum he might even think he can get away with it on the WIFOM argument you have used; a reasonable assumption and one you seem to have not factored in.

The meta shift seems just too extreme to be from town as he is too strongly against massclaims in the (RECENT) past and with as you yourself say NO real reason for the change.

Therefore hes scum.

Which of this do you debate Thor?

[Thor665]

I have said I do think it is a little obvious for him to do it as scum but...

That seems to sum it up right there.

The meta shift seems just too extreme to be from town

Yeah...except it's also a meta switch from his scum game as well.
If you did a big meta switch would you do it as scum and on a lie, or would you do it as town because you had changed your opinion?
I know I've only ever done meta switches as town first - what about you?

[Slandaar]

It isn't a meta shift when hes scum; Hes scum trying to gain what he sees is a huge advantage.

Oh.

[Thor665]

Why do it as scum in this game and never before?

[Thor665]

Oh, wait, that would make it a meta shift, wouldn't it?

Oh.

But, y'know, answer anyway.

[Amethyst Kitty]

AK has been waffling hard as fuck the whole game and posts like the most recent one where she starts doubting a townread because I was waffling on my push on them even though the initial push on them was the reason she thought I was scum.

huh?

you talking about OS, because I'm not waffling on him...


I'll think about Thor, the last Time I had figured him town and had to try and get him to back down from a 1v1 with an obv town read, he was scum though I'm not sure if I would have to do that with townThor.

I don't like KK bringing up a reason for voting OS when that reason is what got him a whole lot of pressure to be built onto him in the first place. feels like he's looking to bring the pressure back onto town with old reasons rather than new ones.

Desperado trying to back down from a loosing battle? His most recent posting doesn't look. His reaction to nacho is strange

Will talk to Mala, though I'd be fine with voting Cephrir, KK, Desp, and Ryu, possibly Thor and Nacho

~Mara

[Thor665]

I'm vaguely town-reading Thor

What changed, scumCat?

[Syryana]

VOTE: Desperado

This should be our lynch for today.

Case to come.

[Slandaar]

Why do it as scum in this game and never before?

Well there are many explanations for this but they all conclude with; to gain what he thinks is a huge advantage.

Perhaps he thought he could get away with it with this playerlist etc.

How about you link me to all these scumgames where he opposed massclaim on Day 1 that you have seen.

Oh, wait, that would make it a meta shift, wouldn't it?

Oh.

But, y'know, answer anyway.

Its not a shift because;
As town it means he doesn't think this, as scum he therefore can't break his town meta constantly, so he must revert to opposing. Therefore it is not a shift in the meta.

[Amethyst Kitty]

Reasons are stated in the above post...

Recently, I have noticed that I'm always willing to town-read you regardless of your alignment so I probably have to be a bit more conscientious when I'm reading you. Your battle with Disney Hydra is giving me strange memories of your battle with fege

~Mara

[Slandaar]

In fact Thor you explain to me how Nacho can magically be enlightened to massclaims when he makes the argument there will be conftown so we have a voting block but can't grasp this concept in a game with only 10 players and 3 dead VT. How does that make any sense? was he not thinking in said game? Or is he just a scumbag here?

[Thor665]

Well there are many explanations for this but they all conclude with; to gain what he thinks is a huge advantage.

Find him discussing that in a situation that does not involve 10 alive in an SK game as opposed to a Day start large.
He also never said it was a huge advantage for scum - he said it was dangerous for town in a SK present situation.
That's a questionable word twist on your part - clarify?

Perhaps he thought he could get away with it with this playerlist etc.

Because we're a list full of people scared to call Nacho on things or massively known for advocating mass claims?

How about you link me to all these scumgames where he opposed massclaim on Day 1 that you have seen.

Go to his user page, search through his games.

Its not a shift because;
As town it means he doesn't think this, as scum he therefore can't break his town meta constantly, so he must revert to opposing. Therefore it is not a shift in the meta.

So...your proof is that he'll shift back to his old meta after this game and that proves he's lying now?
Because if that is what you're saying I'm bewildered, and if that's not what you're saying then I don't follow you.

Recently, I have noticed that I'm always willing to town-read you regardless of your alignment so I probably have to be a bit more conscientious when I'm reading you. Your battle with Disney Hydra is giving me strange memories of your battle with fege

In fact Thor you explain to me how Nacho can magically be enlightened to massclaims when he makes the argument there will be conftown so we have a voting block but can't grasp this concept in a game with only 10 players and 3 dead VT. How does that make any sense? was he not thinking in said game? Or is he just a scumbag here?

I thought that half of your point was that he was playing differently here than there, now you want me to argue differently?
Also, a town voting block through reads is a totally different concept from massclaim - but tell you what, you get him as town saying how bad and pro scum he thinks town voting blocks are and I'll help lynch him right now and sheep you tomorrow.