NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

Bacde · Post Post #1600 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:04 pm

fyi if you guys want to ask nacho questions and have him trip up on himself go for it

thats not my style of scumhunting, so don't expect me to do it

i just don't know the right questions to ask

Oversoul · Post Post #1601 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:07 pm

Eddie if I answered that question it would defeat the purpose of it.

CrashTextDummie · Post Post #1602 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:22 pm

Eddie Fenix moves into the scumpile. He doesn't practice what he preaches. He wanted to pressure Nacho so his posts could be "microscopically examined", but he's not doing any examining. He thinks Nacho should be asked tons of questions, but he's not asking any. He has Nacho as a scumread, but he's not voting him.

Thezmon also rubs me the wrong way. He's all "your points are good, but I need just

a little bit

more to get me to vote him". It feels forced. He hasn't expressed a town read on Nacho, so I don't see why the existing arguments shouldn't be enough to turn him into a scumread. Nor why he's not rereading Nacho himself to figure out if he's a good lynch. Right now it looks like he's just hedging his bets, hesitant to join the major wagon in the game. I did have a scum read on his predecessor which probably makes me biased when it comes to reading his posts, but this looks plainly scummy to me.

I'm a little surprised to see people eyeballing OS

now

, based mostly on the stuff that got him wagoned in the first place. I thought his big analysis post was decent (and it was much longer than what he posted a second time) and I had pretty much decided to leave him alone for today. I wonder what Bacde thought his motivation was for making the fake-claim, if not fishing for reactions. At least the "WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, OS DID WHAT?!?!" post, which is pretty much the mafia equivalent of a spit-take, legitimately made me laugh.

Reread Nacho. Still think the massclaim push and the OS push were pro-town. Hasn't done anything else that gave me serious town vibes. Phase of limited activity didn't struck me as particularly scummy (he says he has access problems and I have no reason to doubt him on this RL claim) but aspects of his contributions since have. Push against Desperado is the biggest point for me. I agree with Bacde on matters of tone and perceived intent. There

are

instances in his play that look and feel manipulative and his efforts look exceedingly survivalistic and weak on the "catching scum" front. Plus I rather like the current make-up of his wagon and several people not on the wagon are being shady as fuck.

Unvote, vote: Nacho

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1603 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:24 pm

VOTE: Nacho
Cephrir tomorrow please, whether we're alive or not.

Om the Destroyer · Post Post #1604 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:32 pm

I still want Bacde lynched even if Nacho flips scum because Bacde being scum is still a thing.

~Pertayter

Bacde · Post Post #1605 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:39 pm

In post 1604, Om the Destroyer wrote:I still want Bacde lynched even if Nacho flips scum because Bacde being scum is still a thing.

~Pertayter

good luck with that if nacho flips scum

Bulbazak · Post Post #1606 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:41 pm

In post 1557, Bacde wrote: can nacho still be scum despite OS looking really really bad (like really scummy bad)?

So, you finally notice what's going on, and then you want to try to force it to fit your version of events? This is essentially you putting your fingers in your ears and going "La la la. Not listening. La la la."

In post 1571, Bacde wrote:
In post 1566, Nero Cain wrote:I don't even care if Sry is scum, I like her posting style a lot.

Has anyone here played with Bacde sum before? Does he bus?
I've played with Bacde-scum before

sometimes he busses sometimes he doesn't

its not relevant to this game though, I'm town

Hello, WIFOM. How are you?

In post 1574, Bacde wrote: fuck dude, if we really want to lynch scum maybe we should just quicklynch arcangel9 (who I'm certain is scum)

What was your case on AA9 again? Or was it like your Nacho case? And why quicklynch? Why not try to get the most out of this day and not only catch scum, but make the rest of the game easier on us by giving us more to examine for scum interactions?

In post 1574, Bacde wrote: Vig should take out one of nacho/OS and we should probably lynch AA9

I don't like the fact that you're trying to direct PR actions.

In post 1574, Bacde wrote: what do you guys think?

You should already know why I don't like this. You are basically needing town affirmation. You want town to pat you on the head and declare you to be town. I don't see the town motivation here.

In post 1574, Bacde wrote: how crazy would this be if both nacho/OS were on the same team, that would be crazy

This is just sad...

In post 1575, Oversoul wrote: Also if the vig wants to shoot me that is there choice but I highly recommend against that.

Unlike ideas, WIFOM is not bulletproof.

In post 1581, Bacde wrote:
In post 1579, EddieFenix wrote:
In post 1553, Bacde wrote:WAIT WAIT WAIT

did OS claim that his informed townie fakeclaim was a "reaction test"?
WAIT WAIT WAIT...

You mean to tell me, that through your insistent tunnel visioning, you've NOT been paying attention??

Bacde wrote:^^So your reaction test told you nothing, basically?

That whole post is IIoA except a few tidbits about RR, even though its never really explained if you think he's scummy or townie

fuck dude, if we really want to lynch scum maybe we should just quicklynch arcangel9 (who I'm certain is scum)

because I'm beginning to understand why nacho really didn't like this slot

Vig should take out one of nacho/OS and we should probably lynch AA9

what do you guys think?

how crazy would this be if both nacho/OS were on the same team, that would be crazy
Have you hit China/the other side of the world/the Earth's core YET?!?! Come on, Bacde... I assume can you at least attempt to string together a compliment-able/legit argument to support your claim rather than just tunneling more.
can you at least attempt to string together a complete sentence to support your positions in the game?

oh wait, you have no strong positions in this game, at least none that are memorable to me

its easy to be a critic

This is not a counter argument. Burden of Proof lies on you.

In post 1582, Bacde wrote:
In post 1123, EddieFenix wrote:
Unvote
Vote Nacho

In post 1289, EddieFenix wrote:
Unvote

So, Nacho comes in and starts posting up. So, I'll back down for now. Oversoul, catch me up on this post please.

[...]

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.
Fenix, are you scum w/ nacho?

We're at the lashing out stage of the tunneling game are we?

In post 1587, Bacde wrote: Here's my dillemma:

if I want to 100% KNOW that I'm lynching scum today, then we should lynch AA9

but I seriously doubt that an AA9 lynch will help us find other scum

plus, I'm like 99% sure that I'm dying tonight (if nacho is scum then I'm dead, if nacho isn't scum then I'm dead to frame nacho)

I'm not 100% on nacho, he's a good enough player that I dunno if I could ever be 100%

BUT I AM sure enough about nacho that IF he flips town, I'm willing to be lynched tomorrow

thats like 90-95%

plus a nacho scum flip will help us find other scum, such as Fenix. If nacho is scum then Fenix is pretty obviously scum

A lot of WIFOM. Zero content. I have not seen a convincing case from Bacde at all, just him screaming that Nacho is scum and hoping that people buy into it. This is an Argument from Repetition, pure and simple. Repeating things enough times does not make them true. I'd expect that if you were town, that you'd be trying to win the rest of the town over to your side, but that's not happening. Instead, all you've done is fill the thread with noise. When you are not screaming about Nacho, you are trying to direct night actions or suggesting that we end the day early via quicklynch (With everybody's favorite Red Herring, AA9. Face it, like lurkers, she's an easy lynch for scum to push.). Truth be told, I don't think your posts are genuine, and I therefore believe them to be scum driven and detrimental to the town.

Unvote

Vote Bacde

If you are unsure about the Nacho wagon, or think that he may be town, you either need to say something and get discussion flowing so we can sort this out, or you need to get on this wagon. Gut says that the Nacho wagon is scum driven, and I'd rather try to avoid a mislynch on d1.

Bacde · Post Post #1607 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:45 pm

counter bacde wagon go go go

Bacde · Post Post #1608 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:45 pm

AA9 votes bacde in T-5

EddieFenix · Post Post #1609 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:52 pm

So Bulba, I can see you're using the logical fallacy book in your argument. Bacde, do you have a counter?

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #1610 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 12:58 pm

Mastin

, you may now stop poking me please..

I am sorry about the inactivity, It’s just too many posts to catch up.. this is what happens when you fall behind in a large games. And having players like Jiffy, Nero, OS,& Bcade I couldn’t imagine any less than a massive amount post floods… Anywayz.. the catch up was really frustrating and such a butt hurt…..

I didn’t like

OS

fancy listing about players who accepted/ignored/rejected his claim, that’s just look like a piece of waste. And when did I exactly supported or agreed to his claim? OS darling, please quote me the post that I said that I believe your claim. All I was mocking about the quick wagon just to avoid quick lynches, I never said you’re town nor I believed your claim. It was too soon to say anything. And look at you, you twisted everything I said so far? Not good, not good at all. And another thing that I didn’t like that how you supported Red Ryu, you find him town out of everyone? That must be some kind of joke.. Red ryu basically being as null as any other lurkers in this game and no scum hut and you defense on him and his defense about you seems way to blunt, there is a very high possibility that I feel one of you is probably scum!!

Bcade

needs to stop calling every random person scum, he may think that it is a very pro town to call everyone scum but I feel it’s just stupid. He seems he is kind of determine to lynch Nacho and randomly call people scum with no reasonable cases. Despite his horrendous behavior and scary play style, this perhaps not a type of play a scum would layout this early of a game. But he totally needs to stop posting fluff.. Otherwise he is just normal town Bcade but just really really bad one!!!

And this whole

NACHO VS entire group

thingy, I am not sure if I could just lean on Nacho wagon just for the sake of placing my vote on some easy wagon, that just going to be blunt and most definitely not going to help this game. OM & HD hydra is correct, the Nacho wagon is bit weird. I don’t think Nacho’s defense as the best town defense ever but I can understand that he may be in pressure at this moment, if Nacho is town, think about the amount of scum dogs may be trying to corner nacho. If you all think I am reading nacho as town, let me tell you that I am not, I am not sure on this wagon yet. There are too many people agreeing/supporting this wagon, it would be a miracle if a scum wagon being supported in this way on Day wagon. If he is scum I would be expecting his team to start a counter wagon to distract the game, since that didn’t happen. I am more likely not interested in lynching Nacho. At least not today please.. SO STOP THE NACHO WAGON. ITS BAD!!!

I am not sure what to make of

Celphrir

, His post # 1318 about me is very concerning, He is said he tried meta’ing and he said that he didn’t find much difference between my town & Scum games, I would really like to know which games he referred and has come to this conclusion.. Becuz there is a huge difference in play style form scum to town and town to scum over the period. Only the players how currently playing perhaps can sense more of my town play but not my scum play becuz it’s been a while that I have been scum(except in 1 game) (yes, I am hinting that I am town as usual, check my town game percentage) So, my point is that Celphrir reading my scum meta based on the other town games I have played, it should have really easy enough to see that I really suck as scum. SO, I am not sure if he had really done his action or he just saying it is that he did so that he could use that as his point. And his denial to CTD about sharing the games that he was referring seems very fishy (refer post # 1360) I initially found his posts bit townish but I am quite unsure about him after this…

Beauty & Beast

– I have actually had a high expectations from this hydra, not sure about majiffy but I can bet that this the town mollie. So they are not dying anytime soon.

Nero

needs get out on that SK topic, We all knew that mollie referred him as some sort of Indie or third party stuff back in 40 pages ago or so but cmon nero, we have some bigger fish to fry. Stop being like a dog with a bone. And also stop pushing for info lynches, policy lynches, and other sort of lynches that potential costs innocent townies. And if you want to call someone scum, get a better reasoning and stop saying that you’re an obvious town … you’re almost sounding like that you’re MOD confirmed town. So stop doing that for the sake Mastin at least

Thez

- I found Thez catch up post very weird, especially his town list, null list and mafia list.. that’s quite a shock.. How could DLG be in his town list? What did that person said anything in this game that looked town? His attack on me is pointless and after that he didn’t even said anything to support other conversations nor did any sort of scum hunting. Reading DLG is town is some sort of record for THEz play..

Slandaar

– This guy is a smart player, his usual town play or scum play is very commendable, he acts like a leader of the group or so...there is no way you can normally tell if he is doing that as scum or town but there is a slight difference he shows… He is more vocal, post plenty, twist his reasoning’s as town. So, he is falling behind as of now…which is worrying me… I am leaning to believe that he could probably scum

Syryana

- I don’t know If I even have to speak about this slot? Can anyone be scummier than him? He came out of nowhere and called me scum while there is so much happening around in the game, and he comes back with mega post where just talk so much which half of it didn’t make sense.. Please… this one needs to die. Right way!!!

DLG

–Totally scumm… but not sure worth lynching this one today!!!

CrashTextDummie

reads town, I like his thoughts , I can bet that are coming from very pro town mind set.

And there plenty other players who is been completely un-useful (that includes me as of a moment ago, buts that’s going to be changed now…)

Seanald

– Get a life and come and give some real reads

Fuzzy

– Are you even interested in playing this game?

Babyspice

– I know this is usual you but you need to pull yourself better than this if you’re town..

Desperado

– I have better expectations on you.. so letting me down.. Don’t bother if you’re scum though.

And rest of them reads pretty much neutral to me as of this moment…

With all that said…
VOTE: Mastin

Just kidding….

Unvote

VOTE: Red Ryu for supporting OS case, no scum hunting, lurking, and being absolutely helps less in the group.

thezmon221 · Post Post #1611 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 1:33 pm

In post 1602, CrashTextDummie wrote:Thezmon also rubs me the wrong way. He's all "your points are good, but I need just
a little bit
more to get me to vote him". It feels forced. He hasn't expressed a town read on Nacho, so I don't see why the existing arguments shouldn't be enough to turn him into a scumread. Nor why he's not rereading Nacho himself to figure out if he's a good lynch. Right now it looks like he's just hedging his bets, hesitant to join the major wagon in the game. I did have a scum read on his predecessor which probably makes me biased when it comes to reading his posts, but this looks plainly scummy to me.

One-two viable points and an ass load of meta is not good enough for me. I don't need a "little bit" more, I need a decent amount more.

Sure, I haven't expressed Nacho as a town read, but he isn't necessarily a scum read either. I like my vote where it is right now, and nobody's been able to provide a solid case for me. Bacde has just sputtered out a point periodically among the "VOTE NACHO VOTE NACHO HE'S NOT TOWN HE'S SCUM META META META" crap.

ArcAngel9 wrote:
Thez
- I found Thez catch up post very weird, especially his town list, null list and mafia list.. that’s quite a shock.. How could DLG be in his town list? What did that person said anything in this game that looked town? His attack on me is pointless and after that he didn’t even said anything to support other conversations nor did any sort of scum hunting.
Reading DLG is town is some sort of record for THEz play..

What did you actually find weird about my catch-up post, or is it just the DLG read? I have also not found anything scummy about DLG, apart from some inactivity throughout the game. Overall I've felt he was generally pro-town in approach. Sounds to me like [Read the below comment to an extension quote]

As for the bolded: What are you trying to say?

DLG
–Totally scumm… but not sure worth lynching this one today!!!

Smells like typical OMGUS of Arc again.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1612 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 1:42 pm

Nacho - I'll take a turkey and cheese sandwich. Thanks.

Thirty-second Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "Mid-page because its too hard to snipe the top" votecount

)

Nachomamma8 - 9 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Slandaar, Desperado, Seanald, Oversoul, CrashTextDummie, BeautyAndTheBeast)

Red Ryu - 2 (Syryana, ArcAngel9)

BeautyAndTheBeast - 2 (Kublai Khan, Thor665)
Bacde - 2 (Om the Destroyer, Bulbazak)
fuzzybutternut - 2 (thezmon221, Cephrir)
Cephrir - 2 (Baby Spice, Amethyst Kitty)
Bulbazak - 1 (fuzzybutternut)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Desperado - 1 (Nachomamma8)

Not Voting - 2 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

Red Ryu is V/LA from Friday, May 17th until Monday, May 20th.

Spoiler: changes from last official votecount

Spoiler: Player Vote History

Spoiler: Voting History

Seanald · Post Post #1613 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 2:04 pm

In post 1603, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:VOTE: Nacho
Cephrir tomorrow please, whether we're alive or not.

I can agree to that, and I doubt you'll die too many people dont like you, I guess maybe thats also why you might die to but I doubt it.

Nero Cain · Post Post #1614 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 2:08 pm

If I were scum, I'd kill B&TB (nudge, nudge scum)

Bulbazak · Post Post #1615 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 2:19 pm

In post 1601, Oversoul wrote:Eddie if I answered that question it would defeat the purpose of it.

What question was that exactly?

In post 1609, EddieFenix wrote:So Bulba, I can see you're using the logical fallacy book in your argument.

I always identify logical fallacies. Bad arguments need to be identified as such, and scum tend to use them to score mislynches.

In post 1610, ArcAngel9 wrote:Despite his horrendous behavior and scary play style, this perhaps not a type of play a scum would layout this early of a game.

That's what you said about Joel in Amurika Mafia. Sometimes obvious scum play comes from scum.

Taking the rest of AA9's reads with a grain of salt. She may not have the best reads in the world, but her play is transparent. She's probably town.

ISO · Post Post #1616 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 2:33 pm

Okay, now that AA9 has made a post I can definitely respect, I'll tell. The major difference I noted between her town and scum games was that she tends to play more thoughtfully as town, state more and better reads, and they usually go against the grain of the town. Which is exactly what I just saw. You can be town for a good long while. Whereas scum-AA9 doesn't have as many reads and they tend to not be as well thought out and/or to go with the flow.

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #1617 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 2:37 pm

we only have a little over a week and the Nacho wagon took a while to build. Despite the cases being built on him, and despite people calling him out as scum, there are people who are quietly trying to oppose it

Ryu pinged for me earlier too Angel

VOTE: Nacho

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #1618 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 2:37 pm

~Mara

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #1619 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 4:08 pm

In post 1615, Bulbazak wrote:That's what you said about Joel in Amurika Mafia. Sometimes obvious scum play comes from scum.

Taking the rest of AA9's reads with a grain of salt. She may not have the best reads in the world, but her play is transparent. She's probably town.

If he doesn't change and bend town to the group, he is more threat to this game then any benefit. I have had seen some stubborn players pushing for quick and stupid lynches that eventually let the game hand over to scum hands.
Nero would know what I am talking about

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #1620 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 4:12 pm

In post 1611, thezmon221 wrote:What did you actually find weird about my catch-up post, or is it just the DLG read? I have also not found anything scummy about DLG, apart from some inactivity throughout the game. Overall I've felt he was generally pro-town in approach. Sounds to me like [Read the below comment to an extension quote]

As for the bolded: What are you trying to say?

In post 1611, thezmon221 wrote:Smells like typical OMGUS of Arc again.

Cmon Thez, you and me know very well that "Town" you just don't read someone town bluntly. How could you say DLG is town, I would understand if you have said if he was null but "Town", No way. There is no support to your read, Just because you didn't find anything scummy about him doesn't make him town, and you know this well. Moreover, He didn't say anything much to give you scum slips. If you're really the town, I want you to take a look at this reasoning to vote me and the timing of his post, there is so much happening in the game at the time of his post but he had just one thing to address, that is me? out of all the other players and on-going wagons? How could i read someone like this as town? please ask yourself again.

ArcAngel9 · Post Post #1621 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 4:16 pm

In post 1616, Cephrir wrote:Okay, now that AA9 has made a post I can definitely respect, I'll tell. The major difference I noted between her town and scum games was that she tends to play more thoughtfully as town, state more and better reads, and they usually go against the grain of the town. Which is exactly what I just saw. You can be town for a good long while. Whereas scum-AA9 doesn't have as many reads and they tend to not be as well thought out and/or to go with the flow.

Thanks but are you conveniently ignoring my request here? I want you to tell me the games that you referred to check my meta. It helps me to understand how are you're basing my read.

In post 1617, Amethyst Kitty wrote:we only have a little over a week and the Nacho wagon took a while to build. Despite the cases being built on him, and despite people calling him out as scum, there are people who are quietly trying to oppose it

Ryu pinged for me earlier too Angel

VOTE: Nacho

Then why are you voting Nacho, its not too late to build another wagon. Nacho case just doesn't make sense. I am not sure why nacho is not actually defending himself as much as I thought he would but this sounds little easy, like i said earlier, it would be a miracle if scum really had let town feed a scum on day 1 especially a player like Nacho.

ISO · Post Post #1622 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 5:01 pm

I looked at your three most recent actual scum games (Hobbit, Simpsons, NY 161; because vengefuls are dumb) and quite a few town games, the only ones I recall for sure were Street Racers, Tenements, and Micro 158.

I've never actually attempted a meta read before and I don't think I was terribly good at it, but there you have it.

Kublai Khan · Post Post #1623 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 7:49 pm

In post 1516, Bacde wrote:Nacho isn't playing to "out his reads" or "find scum" this game, he's manipulating people (and he can do it with one word even as shown w/ the pride post)

Something is off. Oversoul did a retarded "gambit", then was lazy and didn't follow the game, then posted a useless "analysis" post. Then immediately makes a soft-claim about the dangers of vigging him.

Your case on Nachomamma8 is decent. Maybe even lynch worthy. But if he's scum, then where is the scum-led counter-wagon on Oversoul, who has been far scummier?

Either Nachomamma8 is scum with Oversoul, or scum are pushing along the Nachomamma8 wagon to try to get Oversoul to live another day.

In post 1614, Nero Cain wrote:If I were scum, I'd kill B&TB (nudge, nudge scum)

BTW - I'm legitimately pissed at you for asking me to replace into a game with Majiffy in it.

I have about 20 pages left to read before I'm caught up and I should have that done tomorrow.

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1624 (ISO) » Thu May 16, 2013 8:20 pm

In post 1623, Kublai Khan wrote:BTW - I'm legitimately pissed at you for asking me to replace into a game with Majiffy in it.

What crawled up your ass and died?