NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[EddieFenix]

Mookie Mookie man! Confirming.

[EddieFenix]

Wow... That was A LOT to catch up on. But, after catching up

Vote B&B

[EddieFenix]

Wow... That was A LOT to catch up on. But, after catching up

Vote B&B

if oversoul is scum, this dies instantly

Cool. Still doesn't mean I can't suspect him. Also, with Nero leaping around and adding nothing beneficial, I'm watching that closely.

[EddieFenix]

If I'm correct, Nero was silenced. That doesn't entitle him to a PR, that means mafia silenced him.

It's a rule of three kind of thing.

I call bull on him being silenced.

[EddieFenix]

Why do you think he is faking it?

We don't know if he is or not and we can only judge him on his votes for now.

In previous games that I have played in (on other sites), silenced players can't speak PERIOD. No voting, no text, nothing. Also...

Nero, please stop pretending to have a PR in a normal game.

This is a normal game?!?

Not sure if he is trying to be serious, or just trolling. Ok, to answer Kitty now...

@Fenix:
So what did you learn after catching up? Because voting him without giving reasons or thoughts is quite - well scummy as hell.
Then you call out Nero for doing the same thing. >.>

After iso'ing B&B and reading his "logic" on post #322 (I'll post it again with bold and underline for everyone to see again in-case they missed it)

I realize you didn't ask me but I for one would like to hear what Slandaar and AA9 have done that makes them such shining beacons of towniness that they don't even get (weak)'s. As far as I can tell, it looks like your list is based entirely on whether or not people agree with you.

It's largely based on whether or not people agree with me, yes.

Because I am town. Ergo if you agree with me, you're likely town.

Slandaar's rather brief post including you and Fuzzy as scumreads and his strong stance against the massclaim make him town.
AA9's reaction to the Oversoul wagon makes her town.

Him trying to lead the town to vote someone day 1 with no real backing, and the overall attitude of the player has my scum radar going off the charts right now.

[EddieFenix]

leave the stupid fruit alone, Nero is town and even derp as fuck Mollie knows it. Now lets all kill Fenix.

Lol. Let's dance, Baby boy.

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount>>>

BeautyAndTheBeast - 3 (Om the Destroyer, Cephrir, EddieFenix)

Oversoul - 3 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie, Bulbazak)

Cephrir - 2 (BeautyAndTheBeast, fuzzybutternut)
EddieFenix - 2 (Nero Cain, Bacde)
Red Ryu - 1 (Oversoul)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Red Ryu)

Not Voting - 12 (Mac, DLG, Thor665, Syryana, Desperado, Baby Spice, Slandaar, Seanald, ActionDan, Rondar, Amethyst Kitty, ArcAngel9)

With 24 players alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[EddieFenix]

leave the stupid fruit alone, Nero is town and even derp as fuck Mollie knows it. Now lets all kill Fenix.

Lol. Let's dance, Baby boy.

ok, why did your catchup post contain nothing but a vote for B&TB?

Kept it short and sweet because I think he is scum and that's where I want my vote.

What's with you switching votes and not providing much discussion till put under the microscope by me?

[EddieFenix]

I don't see how a silencer without the ability to do anything is helpful at all. If they can't vote or post or do anything people are going to believe they are going to be replaced or lynch an useless slot. >.>

I can probably tell you that B&B is likely town. There's two hydra heads and I play one more then the other, but the one I been playing with has been dropping the town tells I know her too. The second head has not dropped any tells that link to him being scum. I'm 98% sure they are town.

That's just my basic understanding of what I know OF the silencer ability. I didn't see anything in the roles section of the site that had a post restriction or silence ability (might need to go back and look again to be safe). As far as your read goes, okay. That's fine and dandy. MY read is different.

[EddieFenix]

Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble but I don't think that you put me "under a microscope". Obviously I was trolling and faking a PR so that's why I wasn't talking.

Tell me why you think B&TB is scum.

Post #448.

[EddieFenix]

Bulb-you'll live.

You still didn't answer my question.

I realize you didn't ask me but I for one would like to hear what Slandaar and AA9 have done that makes them such shining beacons of towniness that they don't even get (weak)'s. As far as I can tell, it looks like your list is based entirely on whether or not people agree with you.

It's largely based on whether or not people agree with me, yes.

Because I am town. Ergo if you agree with me, you're likely town.

Slandaar's rather brief post including you and Fuzzy as scumreads and his strong stance against the massclaim make him town.
AA9's reaction to the Oversoul wagon makes her town.

Him trying to lead the town to vote someone day 1 with no real backing, and the overall attitude of the player has my scum radar going off the charts right now.

Eddie, this is my one and only suggestion, and only because I know you, but I suggest you check out Majiffy's meta before you proceed with this line of reasoning, otherwise you're going to get steamrolled.

And if the steamroll happens, it happens. I could careless about someone's "meta" because they can use that said meta to play/look a certain way on either side of the ball. So, at the current time, I don't trust, ANYONE, but me.

[EddieFenix]

Be my guest and investigate all you want.

[EddieFenix]

Is that all you've got, Eddie?

Yup. Gonna sit here, take it easy, and gather info. Unless you have any questions you wanna ask me.

[EddieFenix]

omg HD my skype hasn't received your message
I'm probably not going to be completely on the same page as HD until we can get something going (hooray for planning ahead ).
So it'll probably be fine tomorrow.

~Pertayter

Look. A useless post.

Is that all you've got, Eddie?

Yup. Gonna sit here, take it easy, and gather info. Unless you have any questions you wanna ask me.

Lurking. Got it.

Reading and thinking is the term you are looking for here. Hmm... Usually, you have questions or accusations for me, Bulba... Or at least you give me food for thought/ideas to play with... Hell, we haven't even had that much banter so far... Anything on your mind right now (game wise)?

[EddieFenix]

Hmm... Usually, you have questions or accusations for me, Bulba... Or at least you give me food for thought/ideas to play with... Hell, we haven't even had that much banter so far... Anything on your mind right now (game wise)?

• Mass claiming is bad
  
• Oversoul and Om are scum. Red Ryu is likely scum as well.
  
• B&B, Kitty, and Bacde are town (Bacde because of Rofl). Thor is probably town as well.
  
• Cephrir appears to have been on the site for awhile, yet he is unfamiliar with several of the more prominent players and his play isn't up to par with what I'd expect from someone of his experience. That'd normally land him in the same area of initial suspicion as Om, but I took a look at his wiki, and he has a win:loss ratio of 4:10 as town. That keeps him effectively in the null/scum area for now until I see something more conclusive.
  
• Slandaar, although being against mass claiming, has since only focused on the mass claim discussion, more specifically on why I dislike mass claims, essentially prolonging it. I'd like to see his thoughts on more recent events.
  
• Fuzzy is coming off as slightly scummy, mainly because of his refusal to engage and answer the questions asked of him.
  
• Nacho is Nacho and probably won't be readable for awhile. The current mode of investigation on him is ridiculous and won't lead to any definitive reads.

Was there something more specific you wanted to ask? What did you gather from the pre-game (d0)?

Mass claiming is bad, yes.
As for the pre-game, here's been my reads so far

Spoiler: Reads

OverSoul (null)
B&B (Scum)
Bulbazak (you're honestly all over the board for me... One minute, I think you're town and by the next post, I think scum...)
Thor (Town)
Nachomamma (Scum)
Arcangel (Town/Null)
Desperado (Null/Mafia)
Om the Destroyer (Town/Null)
Slandaar (Town)
Fuzzybutternut (null/scum)
ActionDan (null)
Cephrir (Null)
Nero Cain (Null)
Bacde (Null)
Kitty (Town)
Red Ryu (Null)

Not going to trust you on your Cephrir point because of your "wiki read". It's a weak argument imo.
I like Slandaar's points. He's poking holes in the theories of a few of the mass claim supporters. He's not focusing on WHY you dislike mass claims, so a re-read might help you. But, I can say, Slandaar is giving me a couple things to chew over.

First, I was just noting it for future reference. If I was full on attacking you, you'd know it.

Cool, I'll note this for future reference too. Btw what future reference would that even be for?

Twofold: 1.) Anything I find strange or scummy I point out for the benefit of the entire town. 2.) It also serves as a handy reference point for any time I review my ISO and the case against you.

So, let me get this right, you're going to build a case against someone who's slot, as far as I can tell, hasn't done anything scummy? Cool beans, I'll be sure to comb it over when posted.

Third, this is a deflection. I'm sure you can find several useless posts in pre-game, but once the game officially started, I've tried to keep my posts somewhat game related.

Right now is my pregame thanks. I hope you realise I've openly stated that I've barely read any of the game. However I don't particularly need to. Also :meta reasons: useless posts are a frequent pastime of mine.

Translation: "I'm going to be a useless lurksack."

Are you even reading the difference in the 2 players posts??

Fucking lol. Please, tell me why we're even scum in the first place. Your arguments aren't even scumtells.
Useless posting isn't a scummy thing unless it's done repeatedly (and I've only been in this game for a day). Informing people about things like activity and potential dissonance isn't a scummy thing either, it's just being fucking informative. Attacking someone who is easily perceived as anti-town doesn't even say why the fuck we're scum. If someone is perceived as anti-town, you'd vote them, otherwise you won't get anywhere. Just because they have a history of looking anti-town doesn't mean they aren't scum. Your chainsaw defense of B&B is meta-related without any evidence to support your statements. Not to mention that you've tried to discredit us multiple times too....

Full case coming later today.

Again, this outta be good.

Post 657 is complete trash.

How is it "complete trash"?

Simple. First point was a simple goating of OM. 2nd point, you are pointing out the obvious. 3rd point, it's not a deflection. Lastly, it's an overall useless post especially with the "I made the right choice" at the end.

Also I'd kinda like to know why I'm definitely scum compared to OS when:
According to you, I'm scum because: Useless posting and attacking someone you think is town for meta reasons.
According to you, OS is scum because: Bad knee-jerk reaction to RVS vote, backpedaling, contradicting claims, suspicions on trying to use claim to gain townie status and he hasn't said very much at all.
(Note: I don't exactly support the OS wagon right now (nor do I entirely oppose it), this is just my interpretation of his reasons for suspecting either of us)

Like seriously wtf? If you're going to attack OS for a bad knee-jerk reaction to a vote then I'm pretty much going to do the same for you, only in your case there wasn't even a vote before you started reacting terribly (as evidenced by your P-EDIT).

~Pertayter

Translation: "Why aren't you still attacking the scummier Oversoul? Seriously, look how scummy he is!"

Weak translation is weak imo.

That'd normally land him in the same area of initial suspicion as Om,

Why? because he doesn't play as well as you think he should when you have no idea how he normally plays? and because of this he would be 'definite scum'?

No, my "initial suspicion". Majiffy is a prominent player on the site, and Om's reaction to him was strange, as I'd think they, or at least HD, would be familiar with his meta. This was enough to raise an eyebrow. It was the same thing with Cephrir. Om didn't reach "definite scum" status until later, after doing some genuinely scummy things.

but I took a look at his wiki, and he has a win:loss ratio of 4:10 as town. That keeps him effectively in the null/scum area for now until I see something more conclusive.

So, your whole argument was hes experienced and not playing how you would expect someone of that experience to play, you then find out hes not very good as town (or I assume thats what you are suggesting your conclusion is) and so hes still leaning scum for not playing well even though he is matching his own meta or how you perceive it (of not playing well)?

The whole experience question was why I checked out his wiki in the first place. It was there that I found his win/loss records. This made me think that he just might be making bad arguments, and, therefore, was not necessarily scummy.

However, I'm not going to dismiss any earlier inclinations that he might be scum, just because of stats, as I have no clue whether this is his town play or not. All it did was keep him from going into the scum section

.

So, let me get this right... You're saying that you have him at null right now on principal from other peoples scum claims and "bad arguments"? Looks like to me you're trying to cover your ass without looking too obvious that you are covering it.

[EddieFenix]

Also, I think I might have mis-understood your wording Bulba on the Slandaar mass claim thing.

[EddieFenix]

So, let me get this right... You're saying that you have him at null right now on principal from other peoples scum claims and "bad arguments"? Looks like to me you're trying to cover your ass without looking too obvious that you are covering it.

The Om-HD hydra vs. Cephrir: I have played with HD before and have heard of Om. Their experience on the site conflicts with their lack of meta-knowledge on Majiffy, another prominent member on the site, who HD has mentioned being familiar with. Cephrir has been on the site since around 2006. He is also not familiar with Majiffy meta-wise, and he isn't playing in a way I'd expect a seasoned player to. However, unlike HD, Om, Majiffy, and others, I'm not familiar with his name. Therefore I decided to check him out via his wiki, where I came across his game statistics. This keeps him from going into the main "scum" pile, meaning he is still a null/scum read. Did I stutter that time?

Now that I'm back home, I'm going to get that Om case ready. Be prepared, it might take awhile to sort all of the quotes.

Still not a good enough/compelling argument coming from you imo (YET. I still need to read your LONG post about this that is coming soon). But, by the looks of it, you're trying to base this argument on seasoned player meta knowledge vs seasoned player actions/play style.

[EddieFenix]

tbch, the amount of posting in this game is driving me batshit crazy and is fucking up my reads. I want to hear the rest of your reads, though.

I'd like to see your reads, Fuzzy. Since a good portion of other reads have cropped up.

[EddieFenix]

Tbh, Eddie, I don't have anything but gut reads atm.

Gut says B&B is town.
Gut says AK is town.

Scum is probably in the inactive.

Ok. It's a start with B&B and AK. But, if you don't mind, I'd like a short/full list please.

[EddieFenix]

Perhaps tomorrow, Fenix.
I have AP exams, and should probably be asleep right now, but, eh.

Just get me a list.

[EddieFenix]

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

Explain this:

There are at least *2* killing roles in this game.

He was lying about there being 2 killing roles to make a believable story. The quote you are asking him to explain about is just fluff from the gambit while it was going on during early day 1.

[EddieFenix]

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

Explain this:

There are at least *2* killing roles in this game.

He was lying about there being 2 killing roles to make a believable story. The quote you are asking him to explain about is just fluff from the gambit while it was going on during early day 1.

Eddie, let Oversoul and others answer their own questions and defend themselves.

Oversoul, I still want you to answer this.

I planned on him answering for himself. I was mainly pointing out what was an obvious open and close question.

[EddieFenix]

Eddie and Slandaar and Oversoul seriously wtf?

I'm trying to move this game in a direction and you three are being deliberately anti-town by not even responding to my strong assertion I made just 4 posts ago

I don't have time to deal with you right now when I have other suspicions on my mind.

Yes, my Informed Townie claim was a gambit. I do not have any special information about the setup. My extra tid bit of "I have more information" was to further the gambit more until more people had commented on it.

Explain this:

There are at least *2* killing roles in this game.

He was lying about there being 2 killing roles to make a believable story. The quote you are asking him to explain about is just fluff from the gambit while it was going on during early day 1.

Eddie, let Oversoul and others answer their own questions and defend themselves.

Oversoul, I still want you to answer this.

Explain what? That is my Informed Townie claim. I just said that the claim was a gambit and everything that was related to it was a lie.
I did it to get reactions.

If you mean specifically why that information well because it was something I could say that wouldn't immediately be a lie. I was legitimate in applying the fact that Mastin had 7 people review this game. There are probably a lot of roles and such that required that much balance maintenance.
It is also very large so I can see it going the way of Peregrine's Playground Mafia which was large and had a lot of roles too.

Tangent, what do you think of Eddie intervening and answering the question for me?

I wasn't answering FOR you at all. So, let's stick to the facts here.

What Bulba was asking is something I figured he, of ALL people that I know in this game, would pick up on with his reading. I saw the post you made back a couple pages ago coming out about your gambit (the one you just mentioned in this post). Spoon fed him the OBVIOUS answer/conclusion that anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together could figure out if they took the time to read that response you posted.

Tangent, what do you think of Eddie intervening and answering the question for me?

It's very frustrating, as I was asking that question for a specific reason, and him answering the question tainted any results I might obtain.
The question was not as "open and shut" as he tried to paint it, and now I'm left to pick up the pieces, as I cannot trust the reaction I have gotten from you.

That's cute you trying to blame me for something that

was

open and close that anyone else would have come to that conclusion with a simple 2+2 equation.

He did the same thing with my question to Cephrir earlier in the game. By doing this, he is giving the other person a pass to either not answer or to copy his answer. It ruins any potential reads I might get. Not sure if I'd call his actions scummy, but it's definitely anti-town at this point.

Translation: He's pointing out things that any town with 2 brain cells in their head can put together if they are paying attention/reading.

Regarding your "gambit", why did you choose "roles" specifically?

This is an easy one...

Regarding your "gambit", why did you choose "roles" specifically?

If you are trying to do something psychological I wish you luck, lol.
I said roles because I didn't want to say definitively "oh there is a vig, oh there is an SK" that could let people who had the ability to kill to have a buy.
Mainly, I just wanted to be inclusive of all possible killing roles while being vague enough to see if people brought up specific roles or not.

tl;dr, "Just tell the lie like it's the truth and it might as well be true."

I'm leaving B&TB alone for now. I've got a much stronger feeling on Bulbazak right now.

Unvote
Vote Bulbazak.

<<< Made a minor fix to the quote tags. >>>

[EddieFenix]

Hey Oversoul, answer me this.

Before the reveal of your "gambit", what reads did you have/gather?

[EddieFenix]

Hey OverSoul, mind answering my question a few pages back?

[EddieFenix]

Hey Oversoul, answer me this.

Before the reveal of your "gambit", what reads did you have/gather?

There ya go OS.

[EddieFenix]

@OS

I did react to the mass claim during that time it was being discussed. It's in one of the posts where I went back and forth with Bulba on. I said NO to wanting to mass claim, just to save you the trouble of looking (if you'd like to ISO me for confirmation, it's post #691 or ISO #13)

Unless you were discussing my reaction to the "gambit" claim.

So, my next question is, why was there not a whole lot of change in your reads from pre-gambit reveal to post-gambit reveal? Was it because the players attitude stayed the same? Their play style stayed the same? What...?

[EddieFenix]

Unless you were discussing my reaction to the "gambit" claim.

derp.

You're right.

I wish I could edit that now.

the people that I asked to talk about the mass claim, I meant my gambit claim.

The reason I ignored it is because to me, it felt like a BS claim right from the start. I figured, if he's REALLY an informed townie, he's gotta have more specific info than what he's laying out for everyone. He would have SPECIFICS to help back his claim up when people started cross-examining him.

[EddieFenix]

So, my next question is, why was there not a whole lot of change in your reads from pre-gambit reveal to post-gambit reveal? Was it because the players attitude stayed the same? Their play style stayed the same? What...?

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

What "various things" are you talking about in specific?

Plus I am still fleshing stuff out.

Elaborate on this.

If you mean my town reads/scum reads on those players I just mentioned it does boil down to their reactions were something I more or less suspected and didn't really change much of my perspective on them.

Ok... Walk me through your PRE-reveal thoughts and reactions from those who rejected it and those who supported it. Those who you might be waiting on to respond, you can react as they come in and catch up.

[EddieFenix]

Unvote
Vote Nacho

[EddieFenix]

Unvote

So, Nacho comes in and starts posting up. So, I'll back down for now. Oversoul, catch me up on this post please.

So, my next question is, why was there not a whole lot of change in your reads from pre-gambit reveal to post-gambit reveal? Was it because the players attitude stayed the same? Their play style stayed the same? What...?

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

What "various things" are you talking about in specific?

Plus I am still fleshing stuff out.

Elaborate on this.

If you mean my town reads/scum reads on those players I just mentioned it does boil down to their reactions were something I more or less suspected and didn't really change much of my perspective on them.

Ok... Walk me through your PRE-reveal thoughts and reactions from those who rejected it and those who supported it. Those who you might be waiting on to respond, you can react as they come in and catch up.

[EddieFenix]

Fenix first, because his ISO is shorter:

He spent most of his time so far going after Bulba, pushing a case mostly based on meta that looked reasonable enough not knowing their past history. In contrast, he never bothered to explain his suspicion of B&tB, didn't question them and made no move to convince anyone to vote them. He does seem appropriately inquisitive, posing decent questions, though only to a select number of players (fuzzy, OS, Bulba). He seems to have a very narrow field of vision and I would like for him to post a substantial list of reads. He should also explain his short stint on the Nacho wagon.

I can see him as scum (his worst offense being his conduct towards B&tB), but it's not a particularly strong read at this point.

If you read my Iso, I did have a list posted. Not a full explanation for EVERYTHING, but it's still there. As far as my stint on the Nacho wagon, the thought that ran through my mind when Nacho was avoiding the thread was that yes, he WAS mafia because it's a tactic I've seen before. I wanted to add to the pressure of that Nacho wagon to get him in here to start talking so he can plead his case and everyone (minus Bacde...) can start microscopically picking apart his posts to make heads or tails of him. It's passive of me, yes. But, I digress.

The main reason I am hitting a narrow with a few certain players, is due to the fact that it will help me in the long run. It provides me with potential people to start thinking about that are either hitting these players, or are supporting these players so I can watch them and their behavior. The ones I am going after are either

A.) Players of interest to everyone (OS and Fuzzy)
or
B.) Player(s) that have my attention as far as MY interests go when it comes to my reading (Bulba, OS, Fuzzy, B&TB, Bacde, Nacho, Cephrir, etc.)

I'm never a 100% sure, so I want to make sure that I have all of the logic in my head lined up at least 95% of the way so I can cast my vote in the direction of scum (imo) accordingly. So, right now, I'm studying, gathering info, asking questions of certain players/responses so I can get this info and carry it into the following days. Anything else you or the rest of the group would like to ask?

[EddieFenix]

The main reason I am hitting a narrow with a few certain players, is due to the fact that it will help me in the long run. It provides me with potential people to start thinking about that are either hitting these players, or are supporting these players so I can watch them and their behavior. The ones I am going after are either

A.) Players of interest to everyone (OS and Fuzzy)
or
B.) Player(s) that have my attention as far as MY interests go when it comes to my reading (Bulba, OS, Fuzzy, B&TB, Bacde, Nacho, Cephrir, etc.)

I'm never a 100% sure, so I want to make sure that I have all of the logic in my head lined up at least 95% of the way so I can cast my vote in the direction of scum (imo) accordingly. So, right now, I'm studying, gathering info, asking questions of certain players/responses so I can get this info and carry it into the following days. Anything else you or the rest of the group would like to ask?

Can you expand on this please? I found it to be a little vague.

@Bulba:

What? How does 1350 post you quoted make Fuzzy scum?

It's not just that post, but the culmination of all of Fuzzy's posts. He's been sheeping all game, and when I questioned him on it, he avoided answering any of my questions. He's posted nothing of substance, even with all of the stuff going on around him. In regards to Thezmon's post, all Fuzzy asked about was why he was listed as scum, even though Thezmon made it apparent that the list was of general reads based on what he had read so far. Fuzzy didn't comment or ask about anything else, except for why he was scum, even though there were more important things happening in the thread at the time. It was overly defensive, imo, and settled my read on Fuzzy from null/scum to scum.

Specify query on what exactly you want explained.

Also, Fuzzy, YOU OWE ME A TOWN/SCUM LIST. Oversoul, when you get around to it, answer my question as well please.

[EddieFenix]

Specify query on what exactly you want explained.

Mainly this:

The ones I am going after are either

A.) Players of interest to everyone (OS and Fuzzy)
or
B.) Player(s) that have my attention as far as MY interests go when it comes to my reading (Bulba, OS, Fuzzy, B&TB, Bacde, Nacho, Cephrir, etc.)

I wasn't quite sure where you were going with it.

A.) OS and Fuzzy are 2 of the 4-5 big names that keep coming up (other than Bacde's every page nacho push) as we continue deeper and deeper into day 1 that I have has null/scum. I'll ask questions and the game moves forward.

B.) There are players in this game that have MY attention. I'm reading everything they post and I'm calculating my own reads.

Which, if you don't mind my asking Bulba, did something change over the course of day 1 where Om was concerned?

[EddieFenix]

So, my next question is, why was there not a whole lot of change in your reads from pre-gambit reveal to post-gambit reveal? Was it because the players attitude stayed the same? Their play style stayed the same? What...?

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

What "various things" are you talking about in specific?

Plus I am still fleshing stuff out.

Elaborate on this.

If you mean my town reads/scum reads on those players I just mentioned it does boil down to their reactions were something I more or less suspected and didn't really change much of my perspective on them.

Ok... Walk me through your PRE-reveal thoughts and reactions from those who rejected it and those who supported it. Those who you might be waiting on to respond, you can react as they come in and catch up.

Oooooooooooooooooversoul.... Oh OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVERRRRRRRRRRRRRSOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! Answer me, drat you!!

[EddieFenix]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

did OS claim that his informed townie fakeclaim was a "reaction test"?

WAIT WAIT WAIT...

You mean to tell me, that through your insistent tunnel visioning, you've NOT been paying attention??

^^So your reaction test told you nothing, basically?

That whole post is IIoA except a few tidbits about RR, even though its never really explained if you think he's scummy or townie

fuck dude, if we really want to lynch scum maybe we should just quicklynch arcangel9 (who I'm certain is scum)

because I'm beginning to understand why nacho really didn't like this slot

Vig should take out one of nacho/OS and we should probably lynch AA9

what do you guys think?

how crazy would this be if both nacho/OS were on the same team, that would be crazy

Have you hit China/the other side of the world/the Earth's core YET?!?! Come on, Bacde... I assume can you at least attempt to string together a compliment-able/legit argument to support your claim rather than just tunneling more.

[EddieFenix]

why would you recommend against that?

You've been playing in a somewhat unhelpful manner and admitted to not paying attention to this game

not to mention you just voted for the largest wagon in the game with a pretty lax explanation right after I turned the heat up on you

if you were town you'd be willing to be vigged imo

I wouldn't care under normal situations, but sometimes fate (or Mastin) deals us a cruel hand.

Lynch me if you want but vigging me is just bad practice.

What makes you a "bad vig practice"?

[EddieFenix]

Unvote
Vote Nacho

Unvote

So, Nacho comes in and starts posting up. So, I'll back down for now. Oversoul, catch me up on this post please.

[...]

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

Fenix, are you scum w/ nacho?

Point proven. Not only are you tunnel visioning so hard that you can't be legit scum hunting, but now you're trying to link me to Nacho because I unvoted him. Pathetic.

[EddieFenix]

Unvote
Vote Nacho

Unvote

So, Nacho comes in and starts posting up. So, I'll back down for now. Oversoul, catch me up on this post please.

[...]

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

Fenix, are you scum w/ nacho?

Point proven. Not only are you tunnel visioning so hard that you can't be legit scum hunting, but now you're trying to link me to Nacho because I unvoted him. Pathetic.

lol I like how you call me pathetic

it really makes me believe that you have a town role pm and are trying to help me see the error of my ways

no way are you just trying to protect your scumbuddy nacho

who you were willing to vote when the wagon was growing big but unvoted because "nacho started posting"

It also HELPS to LET him talk and ask him tons of questions. When talking, scum will bury themselves deeper, deeper, and DEEPER in the hole. THUS, giving everyone (plus you) the opportunity to put together an argument that is sound.

Now, I've seen a few more of your posts above where you've ACTUALLY put a little more thought into them. You're making a compelling argument that people CAN follow and see the flaws in Nacho's logic. I have Nacho as scum on my reads list. I wanted him to talk more, so I unvoted to give him some breathing room to think he was safe and could come in to try talk his way out. That way, we could get everyone who wanted to support/deflect attention from Nacho talking. It also gives the cop suspects to look into during night 1 so he can make scans to get confirmed townies/scum (baring we have a cop). It gives everyone ideas of who to look at/go for come day 2 if/when Nacho gets lynched.

[EddieFenix]

So Bulba, I can see you're using the logical fallacy book in your argument. Bacde, do you have a counter?

[EddieFenix]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.... FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!! READS MAN!!! I WANT YOUR READS AND COMMENTS!!!

[EddieFenix]

Syry, I'm putting you in my town pile. I like how you play.

Cephrir, REALLY?!?! REAAAAAAAAAAALLLLY?!?!?! That's reaching man... Come on....

[EddieFenix]

1. I'll decide after you flip scum. *
2. Doesn't matter.
3. There are very few players I think I can properly meta. You are not one of them. True for most of the players actually. Bacde's meta case, however, felt like absolute rubbish. Like a fake reason to vote you, eventually provided after many, many posts of saying that you were scum.
4. I didn't decide to 'flop' on you. I voted you because Bacde made a bad bussing a partner joke, which he has only done before while scum bussing a partner. If I was a vig I'd shoot one of you. If there was a wagon on Bacde I'd be voting him. But there is one on you so you first.


* I'm not understanding the Desperado case at all. In fact I'm hard pressed to think if a proper one was actually presented. It feels more like a counter wagon to Nacho now that the deadline is getting close. Added to the highest wagon dies at deadline thing.

It was also something that seemed to happen quickly after Mastin's post, which also engenders not good thoughts about it.
In fact iirc, someone voted saying that the reason would come later. I don't think it ever did.
Someone else voted in what looked like a weird change of opinion, in which the only comment seemed to be on me quoting the Eagles.

I know I saw where Thor said he was voting strictly to jump on the counter wagon on Desp.

Oversoul: His play has just felt fake. His informed townie claim was a lie, which he later admitted to, and he contradicted himself on the reasons why he claimed. He said he did it for reactions, and then he isn't able to judge any of the reactions? But what really gets me is how often he backpedals. I mean, seriously, go back and read his ISO. It's backpedal central in there.

Obviously.

I'm on a bike.

We need to stop arguing over theory and just lynch people. This game is getting too long and it is killing activity.

We should be killing fuzzy because of his play and most importantly because of his V/LA comments that are entirely emotional when there was no need and also sarcastic when there was no need.

He is trying to feign his town self.

Woah woah woah!! While I agree with Fuzzy feigning town and not giving anything good... Going gung ho and lynching with activity being good right now is not something we need to do. Let's draw it out and get as much info as possible.

Bacde, you're giving me whiplash...

[EddieFenix]

Question for those who are against massclaiming now.

Would you massclaim if the town decided to?

NOPE. I am not giving mafia ANY insight.

[EddieFenix]

thez is scum, nacho is scum, thor might be scum, eddiefenix is obviously scum w/ nacho

what else is there to say about this game?

That you are terribly tunnel visioning and trying to link me to nacho is just stupid.

[EddieFenix]

What's thez done to draw your ire, Slaand?

Arguing with beyond obvtown Bacde over trivial things.
Acting helpful
Votes the easiest wagons he possibly could.
He doesn't try to push wagons except ones hes not on.

yes

this is why thezmon is scum

especially the "pretending to be helpful" bit, where its obviously an act to get me to keep on ranting to which he will NEVER change his opinion or even insert his own beyond "I'm not convinced"

So IF that is the current case against Thez, and seeing as how his vote is currently resting on OS, could it be possible that OS is a mislynch waiting to happen? Just a theory/thought.

[EddieFenix]

I believe Oversoul's claim. It resonates too well with his awkwardness around his fake-claim gambit ("Why would anyone shoot me?", "I don't need protection because I am useless and if scum just want a kill in general at a later time they know my death won't be interfered with.") and I agree with Bacde that the claim post sounds town. SK is of course a possibility, but I'm not willing to pursue that possibility on D1 without having any indication that an SK is in the game to begin with.

Oversoul - 10 (Desperado, penguin_alien, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, Haylen, PeregrineV)

Nacho, Cephrir, thezmon, PV.

Anyone wanna take a bet on how many of them are opportunistic scum?

Out of the people you pointed out (and I bolded to be safe)... 1 or 2.

@OS

I'm going to remain skeptical about you in general. You pulled a gambit early game and I'm sure you can understand me being leery about fully trusting your latest claim.

Spoiler: <<< Yes, I suck because this is once more an incredibly-late mod-edited-votecount >>>

Oversoul - 9 (Desperado, Kublai Khan, Syryana, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, Bulbazak, thezmon221, PeregrineV, Nero Cain)

Nachomamma8 - 5 (Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Bacde, Red Ryu, Oversoul)

Desperado - 3 (ArcAngel9, Thor665, Amethyst Kitty)
penguin_alien - 1 (Om the Destroyer)
Nero Cain - 1 (BeautyAndTheBeast)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)

Not Voting - 4 (ThAdmiral, EddieFenix, penguin_alien, Haylen)

With

24

alive, it took

13

to lynch!
Oversoul was at L-4!

[EddieFenix]

Eddie #2575 is a terrible post.

Sweet.

I think Haylen is townish, why are people scum-reading Haylen?

Bacde, I'm waffling more on Nacho. I really don't think he's scum anymore

the last couple pages isn't enough to shake my Desp read... I think. I don't like his reaction to Jiffy in the slightest and it looks like forced? IDK

I like the Desp wagon more than I like the Nacho wagon, and I definitely like it better than the OS wagon, who is so town as fuck it's insane.

Hate that he actually claimed BTW but I think the claim is legit

~Mara

Pedit: Eddie's scum OMG will talk to Mala

Oh pray... This should be good.

[EddieFenix]

Eddie is scummy for stuff outside the OS wagon, like how he suddenly Drops Mollie/Jiffy for Bulb with little reason for dropping the Hydra and with weak reasons to why he believed Bulb to be town.

I don't believe Bulba or anyone else for that matter to be town, tyvm. I'm willing to poke and prod anyone/everyone just because.

He jumped on Nacho opportunistically, and pushes him with "no real backing" when he called Mollie/Jiffy scum for doing the exact same thing. What's even worse is the fact that so many others had already jumped onto him, he as just going along for the ride. Nacho was also the person that He was chastising Mollie for tagging on I believe.

Bacde made a somewhat decent case for Nacho. I decided to apply a vote for pressure to get him in for talking (he became either -4 or -3 before coming in and talking). Nacho came in, started talking, I wanted all angles to be poked and prodded by players who could break his meta better than I. I don't KNOW Nacho's meta like SOME in here may know. So, I removed my vote. Last thing anyone wants is to end the day early with so much to talk about and for us to catch a good bit of scum day 1. Especially...

He also demands reads from several players when he himself isn't open with his reads.

Fuzzy because he needed to start talking and giving info because he kept dancing around doing it. If pushing OTHER players on the side while the main page by page fight is going on, I'm guilty. I pushed OverSoul because he played this gambit bit and I wanted to dig for answers (more below). Nothing wrong with pushing to get reads. Hell, if you want to push me, be my guest.

then there's his interactions with OS. He just recently stated that he felt like he couldn't trust OS for doing the gambit, though when OS initially admitted that it was a gambit, instead of showing distrust he was actually open to what OS might have learned from it.

THAT'S because I WANTED him to TAAAAAAAAAAAAALK... I wanted ANSWERS so that EVERYONE could see what he was going to say. If I could gauge a few responses here and there where his mindset was during the time before the gambit reveal and then after the gambit reveal (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would look into reading his thoughts like crazy), then there would be some sort of either connection or disconnection to his thoughts at the time.

The only time he has ever shown any negative emotion towards OS and what he's done with his gambit is when OS wagon started picking up. Before then, he didn't really care about him

Everyone else was coming down on him and asking the questions I would ask. So, sit back and read. Once he threw out his gambit claim, I decided to start asking questions. Hell, even with this new gambit he's brought to the table, I don't trust it for the simple fact of the stunt he pulled before. I'm going to get my answers one way or the other.

~Mara

:/

Bolded responses are mine.

then he suddenly drops you for Bulba and I don't really remember why

~Mara

Bulba is all over the board for me. I've seen town Bulba fight like hell and not let things so simple slip by him to try and bury someone who he thought was scum. I'm not seeing that same sort of fight/fire from him. It might be from where he is sitting back and thinking more... It might be that he's being calculated in his moves. IDK...

[EddieFenix]

Bacde made a somewhat decent case for Nacho.

Where? I must have missed it...

Round the time of the gambit reveal. It's DECENT at best and it's one of the things that I feel got Nacho in here talking (all the pressure got to him)

Bulba is all over the board for me. I've seen town Bulba fight like hell and not let things so simple slip by him to try and bury someone who he thought was scum. I'm not seeing that same sort of fight/fire from him.

What do you call my exchanges with Om and Desperado?

Weak on Om, Better/More you on Desperado. You changed your outlook on Om later after you went on the offensive on him. Unless something has changed again recently that I missed where your stance is concerned on Om, then I will go back over and check/re-read. Normally, when you have a certain read on someone, you will hound/go like a dog with a bone not letting up at ALL.

Need this addressed:

Also Eddie, I've not been completely on my game since Jungle Republic, mostly due to personal reasons, so that might answer your question about any perceived change in play.

That was my assumption. But it wasn't my place to throw that theory in this thread because I (somewhat) know that you are having personal problems go on right now. I figured if you wanted to address MY thoughts on the matter, you would and you did. Now, why are you waiting til day 2 to make a case against Seanald? I get we are close to deadline, but if you have a case to bring forward that would lead us to lynching scum, I wouldn't hold it back.

[EddieFenix]

the problem w/ this game is that nacho, thor, and nero are all scum and we have players like desp who are awesome scapegoats to the whole shenanigans

plus players like thezmon and eddiefenix are perfect sidelining scum who won't let any of the needed lynches through, and their play is making the actual unsure townies even more unsure and less willing to string up the obvious big name scum that are in this game

Cute how you try to paint me as scum when you've been tunneling to China on Nacho. I can see the other 2 (thor and Nero) being potential scum that I'll have to wrestle between to figure out WHO I exactly want to look at along with Desperado and YOU (because, I don't trust you for nothing). Now...

Vote OverSoul

After his early gambit and him trying to get somewhere with this new one, I'm really uneasy on him.

[EddieFenix]

OMG, Bacde no... I think I'm wrong about Nacho though I wouldn't mind you following me onto Eddie

VOTE: Eddie

Going back to where I ended yesterday, Fuck you guys for lynching OS though

Mollie, was it you who said KK was town or was it Jiffy because I want to know why KK is town...

~Mara

OverSoul got himself lynched because of his gambit. It lead A LOT of people not to trust him the 2nd time around. Also, barking up my tree is NOT the best idea. So, I'd advise you to stand down.

@Nacho

Seeing as how Bacde is going to come after you, let me ask... Is there a case you would like to make?

[EddieFenix]

Besides this being a gigantic load of WIFOM, this theory is also horribad.

Nacho is too good to do something as obvious and stupid as that.

Odds are that it is either someone off of the Nacho wagon who wanted to keep suspicion on Nacho, or someone on the wagon who wanted to continue pushing the case for a mislynch.

Obvious counter-WIFOM

Yes, nacho is good.

That's why he killed Red Ryu and not me

I haven't made the argument that Nacho is bad at this game once, so I guess you're the one who is misrepping?

Notice that it is not my case about why you are scum. It is my reasoning about why you are not blue scum. I've never admitted that my scum case against you was bad. Ever. You're going to have to try to misrep me harder if you want to succeed.

If you actually think I am red scum then you must think I am bussing nacho because nacho IS RED SCUM

How did Nacho kill Red Ryu if you don't mind my asking?

[EddieFenix]

Besides this being a gigantic load of WIFOM, this theory is also horribad.

Nacho is too good to do something as obvious and stupid as that.

Odds are that it is either someone off of the Nacho wagon who wanted to keep suspicion on Nacho, or someone on the wagon who wanted to continue pushing the case for a mislynch.

Obvious counter-WIFOM

Yes, nacho is good.

That's why he killed Red Ryu and not me

I haven't made the argument that Nacho is bad at this game once, so I guess you're the one who is misrepping?

Notice that it is not my case about why you are scum. It is my reasoning about why you are not blue scum. I've never admitted that my scum case against you was bad. Ever. You're going to have to try to misrep me harder if you want to succeed.

If you actually think I am red scum then you must think I am bussing nacho because nacho IS RED SCUM

How did Nacho kill Red Ryu if you don't mind my asking?

it was

YOUR

factional kill that you used w/ nacho

why are you pretending you don't understand my argument?

THAT'S funny.

NOW, explain your extremely weak argument.

[EddieFenix]

Just lynch Thor hes scum.

Seriously explain please

because this is the type of argument you made in Mini 1393 when you were bussing him

I need evidence man, or at least explain your gut?

All the more reason to vote him then.

Gonna have to (reluctantly) agree with Bacde here... I need some more depth from you on this, Slandaar.

[EddieFenix]

ugh this is dumb everyones reads are different how is this game supposed to work

simple. We pick, dig, and watch the pattern of people for slips and what not.

[EddieFenix]

Thor and Nacho becoming "peachy" with one another rubs me the wrong way.

[EddieFenix]

Vote Thezmon

Ok Bacde, I'll bite on your case.

[EddieFenix]

In other news, Cephrir is transparently scum regardless of Thezmon's alignment.

At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.

If thezmon was town he would be a Friendly Neighbor. Die scum die.

I guess that counts as a power role but the point remains

No, the point doesn't remain, it has to be reconsidered from another angle (even if the conclusion stays the same). This is classic scum-pushing, narrow-minded and inflexible. I have no reason to doubt that Cephrir legitimately believes Thezmon to be scum, but he's not going about it in a remotely town way.

I'm fine with a Thezmon lynch, but the day is still young and I'd like Cephrir sorted out.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

There are ways to paint me as scum, but this isn't one of them.

The point absolutely remains, the point being that if thez was actually a Universal Backup, one way or another, he should have been notified that he is now backing something up, which doesn't seem to have occurred. If you think I legitimately believe thez to be scum, what does it matter how I push him unless you want to argue that it's not genuine? (Which you're not)

It's okay though, I know I'm not going to make it through a game with a decent player list without being lynched, I never have, so you might as well get it over with.

....Why would you even remotely point this sort of thing out?? I'm confused as crap about this (bolded and underlined) statement...

[EddieFenix]

CTD should be totally in it. Who else?

om the hydra, but that was mostly for day 1
cephrir
bulba
haylen
KK
AA x10

no to bulba

no to arc

see this is why I get suspicious of you. that list is terrible for a town core. there would be no cohesion at all and more than anything else in a multi-ball game town would need cohesion.

cephrir and khan yes, but bulba should not be a town read of yours his suck-ups are pretty freaking obvious so I read him as scum unless he is just a natural born sycophant which may very well be the case and if it is then he defo should not be in a core group since he will approach the game in a confirmation bias kind of way. but I am going to give him credit and just call him scum

I'm going to bust your chops on this one to give you a little insight on how Bulbazak ticks.

Bulba is NOT a sycophant first of all. He couldn't be farther FROM this sort of attitude with his personality. Granting, I've noticed he's gotten a little cocky behind the ears when PLAYING this game, but who isn't from time to time? Secondly, he is ALWAYS using a person's meta against them in any game that he participates in. I've tried breaking him of it because a person's meta can change from game to game, but he's quite adamant about using it as his "book to play by". Thirdly, he attacks against someone by pointing out their logical fallacies.

You can suspect him all you want. Hell, I've played with him in a few games and even now I keep flip flopping with him on where I stand. He's more Town/Null for me than anything at the moment. But the one thing I can say, is that he isn't sucking up to anyone. And seeing as how you're saying he is, I want some evidence that shows it.

p-edit: @Nacho

How are you a threat to scum?

[EddieFenix]

p-edit: @Nacho

How are you a threat to scum?

because i have found and lynched many in my day
did you notice that thez fucked up his claim?

I noticed. Hence my vote.

[EddieFenix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSlkO41Y9I4

Hold me closer, Ed... It's gettin DARK!