Newbie games setup

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Newbie games setup

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:04 pm

Post by Talitha »

(I know that Norinel wanted to wait until his newbie game was over before discussing this, so apologies to him. I just wanted to get the idea down while it was in my head.)


There has been some discussion of concerns that the current set up of newbie games favours the mafia. (Results so far: Town 5 wins, Mafia 9 wins).

Firstly, I guess we need to decide if it's actually a problem that the mafia seem to be at a slight advantage. I agree it would be nice if both sides had an even chance of winning, but how important is it?

The current idea to address the imbalance was to give the cop a night 1 investigation but leave the rest of the setup the same. (2 mafia, 1 cop, 1 doc, 3 townies, game starts with a day).
I wonder if that will cause more confusion to newbies (who are already having to grapple with learning about Day vs Night and everything else), considering
- the fact that most games start with a night while newbie games start with a day,
- the fact that someone gets a Night 1 choice while the others have to wait until Night 2
Would you start the game with a Night or still start with a Day? Would you let the mafia communicate before Day 1 started?
To me it gets a bit complicated.

My solution would be to add another player to the game, have 4 townies instead of 3, and start the game with a night. This would make the game more similar to other games that are played on the site and a therefore a better introduction to mafia. It would also solve the awkwardness of starting with a day - with no information whatsoever - and only a made-up kill to inspire the town to action. It would give the mafia a chance to collaborate and get the feel of their role, etc.

There are a couple of downsides that I can see. Firstly there will be newbies who are killed Night 1 and that seems a tad unfair. (Although I'm sure someone would send such newbies a nice PM and encourage them to sign up again). Second (not sure if this is actually a problem), there'd have to be a different ratio of new and experienced players, 4:4? 3:5?

Are there any other problems with this idea that I haven't thought of?

Is this idea an improvement on the current set up?
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Post Post #10 (isolation #1) » Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:55 am

Post by Talitha »

Hmmm.. thanks Norinel (and everyone else for the input too).
I'll have to chew over this one for a little while before I can decide what I think about it. (Not that my opinion is particularly important here :) ).
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Post Post #28 (isolation #2) » Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:29 pm

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Norinel wrote:So my idea is to change one thing: have four townies and only one powered pro-town role- either a cop or a doc by random secret decision. It makes the game more like 90% of the other games on the site by adding a little mystery to the setup, it weakens roleclaims by ensuring that anyone who truthfully claims non-townie will probably be dead by morning, and it (As far as I can tell) puts any sort of Day 1 mass claim completely out of the picture. I haven't run the appropriate numbers yet, but it seems like it would favor the mafia more than the current setup.
I'd like to try this setup for the next newbie game that I mod. Of course I'll need permission from Norinel. Are there any objections or glaring problems that I haven't thought of? I'd also start the game with Night 1, where the town power role can make a choice, and the scum can communicate, but
not
kill.
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Post Post #32 (isolation #3) » Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:14 pm

Post by Talitha »

Which doesn't really matter if it's a doc, right?
Yes very true, heh.

Would there be any place for newbie games where the players don't know anything about the setup ahead of time? Ideally that's the kind of game I'd like to be running. A basic mafia game for 7 players, but the roles could be any number/mix of the standard ones. It would solve the brokenness problem - but I guess balancing would become the big problem then.
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Post Post #34 (isolation #4) » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:38 pm

Post by Talitha »

Of course. But I'm almost at the point where I don't want to play them anymore because I'm just going through the motions.
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Post Post #35 (isolation #5) » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:41 pm

Post by Talitha »

And to explain further - I don't think it's good for newbies to have the experienced players teaching them an optimal strategy for winning a certain setup. That is not the point of newbie games.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #6) » Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:20 am

Post by Talitha »

I just don't think that experienced players being bored with it is a good reason to change it.
I'm only bored with it because it's broken....

And yeah some new inexperience-challenged blood would be good. (As long as they can control their natural urges to try and win and don't say "Hey guys, cop should claim day 1!.. etc.)

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