NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Bulbazak]

I mean I'm obviously more in favor of that plan, which is why my vote is still in the same place

I'm just trying to coordinate a lynch

But I feel confident that whoever I want vigged will be vigged

I don't know why you're so eager for a compromise lynch now. There are still 2 weeks left in the day. What would be the point of ending the day early, when 1.) everybody doesn't agree on who is more likely to flip scum AND 2.) we can use the extra time for useful discussion and scumhunting?

ah, finally something I can post about.
Why am I scum, thezmon?

Thanks for telling us that you're scum. Now I know the weak link to watch to find the rest of the team.

[CrashTextDummie]

Fenix first, because his ISO is shorter:

He spent most of his time so far going after Bulba, pushing a case mostly based on meta that looked reasonable enough not knowing their past history. In contrast, he never bothered to explain his suspicion of B&tB, didn't question them and made no move to convince anyone to vote them. He does seem appropriately inquisitive, posing decent questions, though only to a select number of players (fuzzy, OS, Bulba). He seems to have a very narrow field of vision and I would like for him to post a substantial list of reads. He should also explain his short stint on the Nacho wagon.

I can see him as scum (his worst offense being his conduct towards B&tB), but it's not a particularly strong read at this point.

[Bulbazak]

He spent most of his time so far going after Bulba, pushing a case mostly based on meta that looked reasonable enough not knowing their past history.

It sounds like you have looked into our past play history. If so, did you gain any insights meta-wise, since he's still a weak read?

[CrashTextDummie]

I haven't looked into your past history at all, I've just gathered that you have one based on Fenix's argument against you.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

okay, I have talked to majiffy and here is where I am at with nacho.

my biggest thing is that when I was going after nacho he did not say "you won't get me lynched cos I am town" they were "you won't be able to get me lynched". nacho knows I cannot make cases worth shit but he also knows my reads are usually good even though on this site I still struggle with anti-town behaviour. his case on os was bad cos fakeclaiming doesn't usually phase nacho but he decided to make a thing about it and was

sticky with his vote

and his weak ass case when there was a bit juiciness of activity going on in the thread.

his argument with nero is null cos nacho will defend me if I am town regardless of alignment especially if the argument is based on what is not actually a scumtell for me.

here is the thing about nacho, he likes to get inside people's skin and see how they feel <---- that is what makes him a good scumhunter. what makes him a great scumhunter is that he is able to do this while tuning out town noise and stay focused. this is something I totally admire.

^^^ I don't feel like he has done that this game. on the surface his posts look good, there are some thorough analysis in them but they lack something that I can't put my finger on. the biggest thing that stands out to me is how the reads are full of

hedge

, and what is practically a billboard is his hedge on spice girl; he should be all over that shit cos those are the kind of things he tries to push for in a lynch. spice girl is doing the same thing that a player in another game did and he was all over her (KISS) and he was correct for being so. so it makes me think there is a spice girl/nacho association in there somehow, not sure what to make of it. especially since she beetlejuiced him into the thread. it almost read like a "hey buddy if you keep avoiding the thread you are going to get lynched so get in here!" call out.

so what I am looking at are a bunch of objective scumtells

1. pushing a weak case and dropping it when called on it
2. sticky vote
3. mr. hedgey mchedgeville hedging

and the heap of relative tells that are counter to his meta

I have already explained why I am squeamish about lynching him, this is a larger game and it might be throwing me off a bit but here is the thing; town nacho has yet to reach out to me and this is something that town nacho usually does even if it is to just say "hey mollie I am town now stfu and stop being difficult" <---- he has not done this. my biggest concern is that majiffy and I will be out of the game early and so will bc and there will be no one around who is immune to his honey coated scumtitude. I just really want to be right about this though.

anyways majiffy is okay if I push on a nacho lynch cos I think on some level he isn't town reading him either. but its nacho, we have all played

a lot

of games together.

question to anyone who has played a lot with slaandar:

has he ever been followy as town? I have never known him to be, he is usually in the forefront and tries to lead.

majiffy and I disagree on slaandar, thor and cephir. he has slaandar and thor as town, I am iffy on slaandar he says some towny things but he is being very unslaandar-like, leaning scummy on thor and cephir as possible town. we will give a more comprehensive list of our reads as the game progresses after we fight it out, lol

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

DLG, Bacde, Mac/replacement. Lynch from this group.

I'm going to reread Cephir, because his name has been thrown around by quite a few people and he's been under my radar despite high activity. Eddie Fenix is another player I I want to get a better grasp of.

wrt the bold: I think that list sucks

[CrashTextDummie]

Cephrir is a mixed bag.

On the whole, his play does seem a tad light on scumhunting and a bit heavy on one-liners and defending himself, though I'd have to look at the context of how severely he was attacked. Main thrust was against B&tB, with which he traded extensive quote walls with accusations going both ways. I thought he came out of the exchange looking worse because he was pushing weaker arguments, but I don't think it's very alignment telling. The self-depreciation in his ISO 32 sounds the kind of genuine that is hard to pull off as scum. His one big analysis post/read list is of average quality in terms of reasoning and has some points that warrant questioning (i.e. Mac in null sounds more like nullscum and Fenix sounds like a solid town read but is placed in nulltown).

I disliked that he singled out Red Ryu for mindless Nacho pushing while giving Bacde a slide on the same offense. Disliked this post:

Tried meta'ing AA9. Didn't see much difference between her town and scum games except for one tell that makes me think she's scum here. However I've noticed she seems to flounder at the beginning of the game on either alignment so I'll keep giving her a chance for now.

Unless it touches on ongoing games, there's no reason not to share this tell.

I would like to hear his current read on DLG and Thor.

Not a terrible lynch.

[CrashTextDummie]

DLG, Bacde, Mac/replacement. Lynch from this group.

I'm going to reread Cephir, because his name has been thrown around by quite a few people and he's been under my radar despite high activity. Eddie Fenix is another player I I want to get a better grasp of.

wrt the bold: I think that list sucks

Your most current list of reads is this:

Town

{

Bulba

,

Thor

, Slandaar,

Oversoul

, AA9,

Bacde

,

Red Ryu

,

Nero Cain

, }

Null

{The rest}

Scum

{CrashTextDummie,

Cephir

,

Nacho

, DLG,

Fuzzy

,

Om

, Fenix}

Updated reads. Bolded are strong, italicized are weak.

DLG a scum read, Mac a null read. I realize you have a strong town read on Bacde, but that hardly justifies such a blanket statement.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Those are my reads, not Mollie's.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

VOTE: Nacho because Mollie forgot.

[Cephrir]

@CTD: I read DLG and Thor as town at the moment. I am not going to share what I'm talking about wrt AA9, as I want to see if the pattern continues once she's done floundering through early game. I will say it's a pretty basic, mindset sort of thing.

[Cephrir]

There's a big difference between the ways RR and Bacde have been pushing Nacho.

[CrashTextDummie]

This is why I hate playing with hydras.

majiffy and I disagree on slaandar, thor and cephir.

And how many other players?

Give consensus reads on DLG and Mac, please.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

@ ctd

bc is pushing a nacho sound meta case. what scum does this? do you know why scum don't do this? cos in order to push it effectively, they have to misrep the person's meta in some way (and bc is certainly not doing this, btw) and what that does is cause ill feelings that can bleed over into future games.

so your on him is bad and it makes you look really bad for giving such a bad cos with your experience you should be able to differentiate between scum motivated cases and town motivated cases and you are not demonstrating that here.

eta: I don't care if you hate playing with hydras if you cannot tell us apart then you are a dummy. but you know what? I don't think you are cos I am entertaining this theory that scum will whine about hydra confusion in order to make them look like they are doing something and justify their crappy reads.

also, we will give our reads when we are ready and not at your demand

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

There's a big difference between the ways RR and Bacde have been pushing Nacho.

cos they are taking 2 different approaches. majiffy has a town read on red (easy lynch material) and I agree with him. but red needs to get back into the game

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

also another reason that scum will often misread hydras is cos they are not really reading their posts in order to determine their alignment since they already know it. so yeah, you are looking terribad right now

[CrashTextDummie]

Is it also scum whining if I once again complain about your slot being less than cordial? I didn't demand reads, I asked nicely.

I have made my distaste for hydras clear in the sign up thread and I'm not insinuating anything wrt my read on you or anyone else. I can keep the two of you apart pretty well based on tone, but it's kind of hard to apply this to a naked list of reads.

Bacde stopped pushing a sound meta case the moment he started arguing that Nacho would be a good lynch even if town. What

town

does this? If you had actually read my thoughts on him and not just glanced at the short list of my preferred lynches, you'd know that the original case wasn't a deal breaker for me in spite of me not agreeing with it. And it's kind of ironic that you're suggesting that scum would avoid doing something that's completely in the spirit of the game for fear of ill feelings bleeding over into future games when you seem to go out of your way to make me not want to play with either of you ever again.

[pirate mollie]

Is it also scum whining if I once again complain about your slot being less than cordial? I didn't demand reads, I asked nicely.

huh. well it sort of seemed like you wanted them right this second.

were you offended that I said I thought you would have to be a dummy to not tell us apart? cos you should read the thread where I gave a clear statement that majiffy consistently capitalises and punctuates where I do not.

I have made my distaste for hydras clear in the sign up thread and I'm not insinuating anything wrt my read on you or anyone else. I can keep the two of you apart pretty well based on tone, but it's kind of hard to apply this to a naked list of reads.

well majiffy stated that those were his reads so there

Bacde stopped pushing a sound meta case the moment he started arguing that Nacho would be a good lynch even if town. What

town

does this? If you had actually read my thoughts on him and not just glanced at the short list of my preferred lynches, you'd know that the original case wasn't a deal breaker for me in spite of me not agreeing with it. And it's kind of ironic that you're suggesting that scum would avoid doing something that's completely in the spirit of the game for fear of ill feelings bleeding over into future games when you seem to go out of your way to make me not want to play with either of you ever again.

let's take a breather. "dummy" is not a pejorative term in the context that I am using it, it is more of a "hey wake up! here is something you are missing here!" and it is light sledging IMO (YMMV) to get a better read off of you. your reaction is a bit telling but majiffy and I disagree will probably fight over it. we will see.

as to your "what town does this?", why are you going after bc for it when nero has been saying in every other post (and is anyone else as sick as I am of his hard on for me? jesus christ) that he would sit on the sofa and eat bon bons if we could be lynched. why are you leaving him alone?

you will have to ask bc as to why he said it, I know that if it were me, it would be out of frustration cos I know the player is capable of doing better but isn't. it is an added form of pressure called "sledging" and I am sure you are familiar with the concept if not the term.

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Is it also scum whining if I once again complain about your slot being less than cordial? I didn't demand reads, I asked nicely.

huh. well it sort of seemed like you wanted them right this second.

were you offended that I said I thought you would have to be a dummy to not tell us apart? cos you should read the thread where I gave a clear statement that majiffy consistently capitalises and punctuates where I do not.

I have made my distaste for hydras clear in the sign up thread and I'm not insinuating anything wrt my read on you or anyone else. I can keep the two of you apart pretty well based on tone, but it's kind of hard to apply this to a naked list of reads.

well majiffy stated that those were his reads so there

Bacde stopped pushing a sound meta case the moment he started arguing that Nacho would be a good lynch even if town. What

town

does this? If you had actually read my thoughts on him and not just glanced at the short list of my preferred lynches, you'd know that the original case wasn't a deal breaker for me in spite of me not agreeing with it. And it's kind of ironic that you're suggesting that scum would avoid doing something that's completely in the spirit of the game for fear of ill feelings bleeding over into future games when you seem to go out of your way to make me not want to play with either of you ever again.

let's take a breather. "dummy" is not a pejorative term in the context that I am using it, it is more of a "hey wake up! here is something you are missing here!" and it is light sledging IMO (YMMV) to get a better read off of you. your reaction is a bit telling but majiffy and I disagree will probably fight over it. we will see.

as to your "what town does this?", why are you going after bc for it when nero has been saying in every other post (and is anyone else as sick as I am of his hard on for me? jesus christ) that he would sit on the sofa and eat bon bons if we could be lynched. why are you leaving him alone?

you will have to ask bc as to why he said it, I know that if it were me, it would be out of frustration cos I know the player is capable of doing better but isn't. it is an added form of pressure called "sledging" and I am sure you are familiar with the concept if not the term.

shit!

sorry mastin

<<< It's okay. We all slip from time to time. Just try to keep it at a minimum. >>>

[Thor665]

Scummy.
I've said as much.

where is your case thor huh huh huh

I didn't make one, so it's in my head somewhere, swimming around.
What does it matter?

mebbe you should have used more words in order to specify the distinction since you are apparently making one

Okay, let's even go with the theory that I meant logging off...what does that tell you about my alignment?
Y'know, since you're now implying I am lying about what I meant.

The entire rebuttal to her cranky tell
Neener -neener - neener - naaaaaah!

Yeah, that sells me.
So...basically all just made up gak then?
Got it.

I'm going to defend scum - your case on him is probably about as solid as your case on me, and thus isn't worth sheeping at this point.

@mollie, thor likes to say cheeky stuff as scum right?

lol, yes

Mollie, does Thor say cheeky stuff as town?

of course you do, but the motivation is different. right now I am trying to determine the motivation

Tell me more - because your initial answer was just tossing out a scumtell on me without giving the more honest answer of 'he's cheeky as any alignment' even if you do think there are different types of Thor cheekiness.

Because that's scummy as hell.

Thor I will probably look into a little more when he is caught up all the way and ~later~, but I like most of what I see so far, I don't really think he would decide to approach the game in the way that he is if he was scum. But that's an assumption that has burned me in the past, so it doesn't mean too much.

Thor is a Thor read.

Well, do you think Mollie is scummy for sk hunting?

If yes, why is Nacho not scummy for defending Mollie?

If no, why did you think my line of questioning was constructive?

I think you've proven she's a suboptimal scumhunter - but unless you want to tell me without a doubt that there's only one scum team in the game then I see it as a questionable tell that should be revisited more later.
That said, Mollie is scummy for other reasons now - vote her.

Because she is Schrodinger's scum, and also town defend scum.

It would be constructive regardless of my personal belief on the tell because you took a hard stance and pressed on it.

Again, why did you call me out on this?

you didn't start off cranky.

I would say you got more aggravated as the game progressed rather than just flat out cranky

you have been cranky this entire game.

I am trying to determine if it is a legitimate relative tell for you

what? lol

That's rather silly - she's talking about two different games.
Why the misrep?

I don't understand why it took Slandaar so long to start attacking me based on massclaim discrepancies, considering he brought it up early then sort of postured for a while, then jumped on my wagon when it started to gain momentum. His posting elsewhere has been just weak as shit; he's thrown out a few random reads, but he took FOREVER to vote for some reason and he's probably scum.

You planning to RESPOND to his case though?
Because it looks like a knockout punch to me.

Edit: I see your link...how is that relevant, specifically?

Scum to varying degrees:
Nacho/Thor/Fuzzy/Ceph/Bulba

Tell me more about...me.

I disliked that he singled out Red Ryu for mindless Nacho pushing while giving Bacde a slide on the same offense.

I like this.

[EddieFenix]

Fenix first, because his ISO is shorter:

He spent most of his time so far going after Bulba, pushing a case mostly based on meta that looked reasonable enough not knowing their past history. In contrast, he never bothered to explain his suspicion of B&tB, didn't question them and made no move to convince anyone to vote them. He does seem appropriately inquisitive, posing decent questions, though only to a select number of players (fuzzy, OS, Bulba). He seems to have a very narrow field of vision and I would like for him to post a substantial list of reads. He should also explain his short stint on the Nacho wagon.

I can see him as scum (his worst offense being his conduct towards B&tB), but it's not a particularly strong read at this point.

If you read my Iso, I did have a list posted. Not a full explanation for EVERYTHING, but it's still there. As far as my stint on the Nacho wagon, the thought that ran through my mind when Nacho was avoiding the thread was that yes, he WAS mafia because it's a tactic I've seen before. I wanted to add to the pressure of that Nacho wagon to get him in here to start talking so he can plead his case and everyone (minus Bacde...) can start microscopically picking apart his posts to make heads or tails of him. It's passive of me, yes. But, I digress.

The main reason I am hitting a narrow with a few certain players, is due to the fact that it will help me in the long run. It provides me with potential people to start thinking about that are either hitting these players, or are supporting these players so I can watch them and their behavior. The ones I am going after are either

A.) Players of interest to everyone (OS and Fuzzy)
or
B.) Player(s) that have my attention as far as MY interests go when it comes to my reading (Bulba, OS, Fuzzy, B&TB, Bacde, Nacho, Cephrir, etc.)

I'm never a 100% sure, so I want to make sure that I have all of the logic in my head lined up at least 95% of the way so I can cast my vote in the direction of scum (imo) accordingly. So, right now, I'm studying, gathering info, asking questions of certain players/responses so I can get this info and carry it into the following days. Anything else you or the rest of the group would like to ask?

[Hanzo_5]

I wonder what the mafia to town ratio is?

D1 is not my day. I read mosy everyone as null. anyone can play to appear town. which is why we even have town reads. The lynch and reasoning behind it is all that will stand out to me.

@Thezmon

Your reasonless list is nothing but filler. To paraphrase you, you said "Hey im here and im doing stuff, Im not done yet so it looks like im not doing anything".

Im bringing this to light because I see it as fluff and everyone else should too.

I dont know why your fluffy. But I dont care for it. Your life no linger matters to me. Plz fix that.

[Amethyst Kitty]

Spoiler:

in other news I am not sure what to make of bulb's mancrush on majiffy I mean omg

Worried you might be replaced?

nah. majiffy values his body parts too much

so you are chick huh

why are you hardcore buddying us? cos that is what you are doing and while majiffy will be flattered, I am not impressed. you seem to "have meta" on majiffy when you have stated that you have never played with him before.

@ slandaar - why are you staying away from us?

@ arc - that isn't quite what I mean by indies but yeah, people will sometimes read as indie cos they have their own agenda

@ everyone - also I thought red ryu was someone else cos he is using tr jargon but I think he just picked it up from fery in another game.

@ kitty where are you it is like you have abandoned me I will need years of therapy to recover from this

@ om - do you mean to tell me you really think we are scum.

so what do you think of nacho's list again, om?

ak remind me later that I think you are town at this point when I decide to eat paranoia flakes at 3 am and start going after you

kitty what is your read on bulba

majiffy is like hardcore about cephir being scum. and I mean hardcore

^ @Thor: This is what shows Mollie using her town reads to help her build reads. She's working with us and others and it's what she does as town.

@Bulba:

What? How does 1350 post you quoted make Fuzzy scum?

@B&B: I'll check that on Slandaar when I am finished with school. I just want this shit to be over already v.v

Also how are we in the null section? When Mollie has a town read on us? Does this mean Jiffy does not?

@Nero:

Lay off or back off. Which ever one suits you better. How are we playing dumb? Go on enlighten me please. I'll be awaiting it. Why don't you try explaining to us why you think we are scum. Clearly everyone disagrees and that little argument helps no one.

[Bacde]

I don't know why you're so eager for a compromise lynch now

dont misrepresent my emotional state

I'm not eager for any lynch other than nacho right now I'm just trying to feel people out

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

Okay, let's even go with the theory that I meant logging off...what does that tell you about my alignment?
Y'know, since you're now implying I am lying about what I meant.

cos scum like to steer the game

Tell me more - because your initial answer was just tossing out a scumtell on me without giving the more honest answer of 'he's cheeky as any alignment' even if you do think there are different types of Thor cheekiness.

no. I answered the question.

you asked a different question and got a different question answer cos...you asked a different question.

Because that's scummy as hell.

no its not. would you like me to post the post where you said I could not possibly be the cult leader in the cult micro game? cos that is what I was thinking at the time when bc asked that.

also you are couching things in rhetoric and that is why

I think you've proven she's a suboptimal scumhunter - but unless you want to tell me without a doubt that there's only one scum team in the game then I see it as a questionable tell that should be revisited more later.
That said, Mollie is scummy for other reasons now - vote her.

lol

and I really had to lol at schrödinger's scum