Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[Mitillos]

/confirm

[Mitillos]

Vote: Kmd

Only one without an avatar.

[Mitillos]

Huh, you guys have really been active, huh?

@Mod: Could you put commas between the players in the votecounts? Thanks.

I get the case on tiger, but I don't really get the case on HD. Could someone clarify it?
Also, do we really have two players who basically want each other out of the game? (tiger/zab)
Because that seems like a horribly convenient thing for them to say, to not participate in scumhunting and bus each other at the same time. Have you two done the same thing before in a previous game? That is, each of you attacking the other for "knowing in advance they'll be anti-town"?
Also, @Wisdom: Actually, when reading up on the setup, I originally thought that a massclaim would be a good idea too. Until I saw that multiple people of the same time are possible. And it's an easy thing to miss, so I'd say that's null and not a scumtell.

[Mitillos]

EBWOP: "time" should read "type". As in, night and power.

[Mitillos]

@Wisdom: But it's essentially the same, isn't it? They both supported a specific course of action that, given a specific mistake, which is easy to make, sounds like a good idea, but in fact isn't. Why would one be scummy and the other not?

[Mitillos]

Anyone who wants to PL tiger for wanting to PL zab is being a hypocrite.
Also, although his constant impoliteness is annoying, it's very much not a scumtell.
The defensiveness and OMGUS points, brought up by Disturbed are valid, but not enough, in my opinion.
I am opposed to any policy lynches and I don't see enough of a case on tiger to assume that the wagon on him is more than PL.
Having said that, @tiger: For crying out loud, man. There is no need to be so abrasive. Mafia is a cooperation game; being polite helps with that. If you're town, could you try toning it down?

@mollie: You missed the 'h' in 'http' in both your smileys, as well as messing up the tags in one. Also, who is scum, why, and why aren't you voting them?

[Mitillos]

OK, so someone with slimer experience, is he always like this? Especially as town? Because there's a bunch of things he's said that make me want to vote him.

[Mitillos]

@HD: I'm not sure where mollie said she had a scumread on Pro. Could you explain?

[Mitillos]

@HD (damn it you guys post too much in one go): mollie's 143 reads more like a joke than anything, to me. Also, I think I'm fairly rational, and my vote is on someone that I have absolutely no read on (he hasn't really said anything), because it was an RVS vote I never changed, because I don't see anyone else as a solid scumread, yet.
Speaking of which, what happened to your scumread on tiger? I mean, you were one of the people voting him, who didn't do it because of his rudeness, but because you made an actual case on him being scum. Did you change your mind about him?

[Mitillos]

@Wisdom: I've gone through mollie's ISO in Micro 99, but I'm not sure I see where she behaves the way you say. She seems to be fairly active in the discussions. She doesn't seem to have called anyone solidly scum and not moved her vote on them.
Newbie 1309, which butter linked seems to be much more like her actions in this game, though. Here's the problem though. She was specifically attacked the same way in that game. She has said as much herself, here. She knows that that's part of her meta and that she can use it. I'm not sure that her town-meta is an adequate defense. Can it be clearly shown that she does not do the same as scum?

[Mitillos]

I'm not liking Distrubed's support of policy lynches (tiger and then mollie).
@Disturbed: Do you have meta examples of yourself where you support policy lynches, like that? (As both alignments if possible, please.)
Wisdom is probtown and for now I'll trust his opinion on mollie (I'm guessing it looks like null-town? That's what it seems like to me).
On the other hand, I'm not sure I follow his and zab's attack on Puck. His posts seem null to me.
Right now, my gut is telling me to

Unvote

Vote: HD

His play is reminding me of how he was in one of the games I stalked (one of the recent Newbie games, I think). He was scum in that one.

p-edit: What Wisdom said.

[Mitillos]

@Disturbed: I'm not sure that defensiveness and OMGUS aren't null-tells, to be honest. And I'm not sure that HD's scumhunting is sincere.

Also, What CF said. Take it easy guys.

[Mitillos]

@Disturbed: Yeah, sorry, I do that sometimes. I'm saying I think those are null-tells (defnesiveness, OMGUS). And no, I haven't played directly with HD, but as I said, his play here reminds me of one of his scum games, that I watched.

@Hawk: Good luck.

[Mitillos]

@Disturbed: To be honest I don't see it. You say he hasn't addressed your question. The thing is, I said you were pushing for a PL on mollie. The same thing Wisdom said. That's exactly addressing your question, in what I consider a pro-town manner. We shouldn't lynch mollie (or anyone) for being too hard to read, because that would be a PL and PLs are generally bad. Now mollie is in a hydra (which makes reading her harder) with Majiffy (who is also quite difficult to read). Should we lynch them for that, irrespective of their actual alignment? No, that's a very anti-town thing to do.
I take Wisdom's response to be a perfectly valid answer and my read on him is town.

[Mitillos]

And yet Mcqueen is higher on the list. So, did mcqueen make scummier posts but also a town post or something?

[Mitillos]

Also, comparing 57 posts with 7, seems a bit iffy.

[Mitillos]

I'm starting to see the allure of policy lynches...

@Beauty: Alright, fair enough, on the fuzzy/queen side of things. But don't you think that Siv's been too quiet to be scum, rather than null?

[Mitillos]

@Majiffy: Yeah, that was a stupid choice of words. I guess what I meant was "too quiet to give a clear scum read".

[Mitillos]

RV, then the tiger issue, then sheeping zab, then sheeping Wisdom.
Yeah, I guess you do have a point.
My only worry is that he's just being uninterested town. Which is also a bad thing, but still...

(For those not following the thread too carefully, this was about Siv)

[Mitillos]

So, what exactly are you trying to prove? Because the only thing of importance, that you can prove by getting lynched, is your alignment.

[Mitillos]

@CF: Maybe from the discussion forums, or from stalking a game he was in, or maybe you saw his profile and decided this because of his age, or something.
So, who are your top scumreads? I've seen your attacks on HD and queen, but I don't think I noticed anything else.

[Mitillos]

"That is not to say he's not using it to his advantage as scum" from 717. I thought you meant he was a scumread.

[Mitillos]

@Pro: Are you saying reads shouldn't change or that when they do, people shouldn't explain why this happened? Because neither of these positions is pro-town.

[Mitillos]

@HD: My vote's on you, so it should be obvious that I think you're the scummiest of them all. As I mentioned when I voted you, the reason is gut. Which means I can't really formulate it properly in words and I'm using "gut" as an excuse. It's basically a general sense I'm getting from many of your posts that they're not coming from a town mindset. My next highest is probably Siv. That's basically because of Beauty's case on him, earlier. The bad votes.
I have no other major scumreads at this time, so I'm guessing one of the players with less content would be the third mafia, if I'm right.
Town reads on Wisdom, CF, Pro, Beauty and zab, in order of strength.
Everyone else is pretty much null.

[Mitillos]

The foreground is taken by pointless back-and-forths between Wisdom and whoever is accusing him at the time.
Conservative play is not a scumtell.
Non-controversial targets are non-controversial because they are obv.scum. Otherwise they would be controversial.

Keep trying.

[Mitillos]

@zab: You'll note that I also said that I think that HD doesn't seem to have a pro-town mindset. So, no, it's not only the similarities with his other scumgame. And how did I overstate anything? I said what I think on PL's. Also, you will note that what I asked about Siv was followed by Beauty's response, which I accepted. And the thing you quoted about non-controversial targets was in response to HD's case on me. So, what exactly is your point?

@CF: Why do you want to lynch me?

[Mitillos]

@zab: No other major scumreads. Hence, Siv's minor one got bumped up. The worry is still there.

@HD:
1) No, I didn't. What with all the bullshit happening in the foreground, I didn't have any actual scumreads. Until, you know, I voted for you.
2) No it isn't. Wanting everyone to hold to a single playstyle, specifically the one you favour, is short-sighted.
3) See above. And Siv isn't obv-scum to me, but if he's "not controversial" which was your assertion, that means that others want him lynched too.

Your case is terrible, you've got nothing except a bunch of poppycock and you're either scum, trying to go for a mislynch, because your previous attempts at this failed, or just bad at figuring out what constitutes a scumtell and what is simply confirmation bias.

Once again, keep trying.

[Mitillos]

I don't want him to go away. I want him to keep talking. I want to read him more. I think he's scum and I want to get more info either to support this, or change my mind. Why are you so opposed to discussion in a game about discussion? Afraid you might make too many slips?

[Mitillos]

@HD:
1) No, I don't think so. If people get into wall wars, or in this case, posting wars, I just let them do their thing, until they run out of steam. Massive amounts of posting from a few people are a sign of emotions running high, which is a terrible time for reasoning.
2) Again, you're assuming things go by emotion. Asserting that "treading on someone's toes" leads to them "wanting to lynch me later" assumes that people don't care about motivations, when scumhunting and instead see who offended them more. And I understand this, but it's not how I think.
3) People have had scum reads and town reads on you. Possibly Siv, as well. If your definition of non-controversial is about people fighting it tooth and nail, then you're in for a surprise as to how many people your list will include.

@CF: Look back at 791. Pro responded to 790 and explained. And that was the only scummy thing I thought I saw from him. He seems to be earnest in his hunting, so yes, my read on him is town.

Also, welcome new replacements.

[Mitillos]

@CF: I didn't put him in a scummy light. I asked him what he meant, because I misunderstood it and thought it was something very very scummy. He responded, and I was fine with his response. As for his earnestness, he pushed mollie, when he thought he caught her in a scumslip, he does a thorough research into the posts of whomever he is making a case and he's been actively increasing the content and conversation levels. That's pretty much all I need to read him as town.

@queen: Something about pots and kettles.

[Mitillos]

My biggest scumread out of these is still Rach. I'm not sure I buy her claim. Looking back at Siv, I think he would be unlikely to play as he played, if he were a D1 PR. Also, I am less sure about HD. I've looked at a few more of his games and I'm not confident in my read on him.

Unvote

Vote: RachMarie

Also, how exactly is Wisdom's "if I am scum, how can you be sure that I am not WKing mollie?" scummy? It points out that one should keep in mind all possible scenarios, which is actually a rather townie thing to do.

p-edit: Rach is on L-1 now.

[Mitillos]

@Wisdom: I was. Now I'm not. I thought his tunneling was a scumtell, but now... And Siv was replaced by Rach. She has the same role PM he had. If she is telling the truth, Siv was a D1 Doc. I don't think he was. I think Rach is lying and if so, she needs to be lynched.

[Mitillos]

@Wisdom: Posts like 438, 441, 515. Also, his general lack of participation. Also, what exactly is your case on D_O? All I remember you saying was that you prefer lynching him, instead of HD. Just a quick summary will do.

@Rach: I played two games with Siv. He was town in both. He was very much not like this.

[Mitillos]

@Wisdom: The thing is, I'd expect a D1 PR to be more interested with the game. His power is an early one. He only needs to survive one day and one night to have used it, hopefully effectively. I'd expect least interested town to be D5 PRs, who are almost certainly not going to be able to make a difference. Also, it's not just Siv being a doctor There's also his opportunistic votes. And after that, Rach hasn't helped things much. For example, she claimed long before she needed to and gave links to prove that "she's often an easy lynch" as she put it, when no one asked for them. Also, this bit: "Keep an eye on them Wisdom... " in 1096. Little bits like buddying. Stuff like that.

So, how about that case?

[Mitillos]

OK, this might be a silly question but, if someone was a D1 PR, should they claim now? Because they'd no longer be any different from a VT, so there's no new info they can provide beyond what happened last night. And if they don't claim and happen to die overnight, we'd lose that info.

If someone's played this sort of game before and knows whether this is a good or bad idea, this would be a good time to say so.

[Mitillos]

@chik: Your post right after the hammer makes it seem like you hadn't realised Rach was at L-1, which implies you weren't paying much attention to what had happened. Now, 1232 implies that you at least went over the 48 or so pages before and had a good idea of what was going on. These two positions are contradictory.

[Mitillos]

@queen: Vague dismissals are invalid and pointless. Do something helpful, for once.
@chk: Me, personally? Nothing. I was on the Rach wagon as well. But others were still discussing their reads, so obviously they wanted more. Why would you cut that short?
Here's another question though. If you didn't bother reading the game, why would you hammer Rach? You couldn't possibly have a scumread on her.

[Mitillos]

What if I want to vote both wagons, because I think they're cross-bussing scum?

Vote: chk

His responses are not convincing. Also, "Rach is never helpful"? We had that PL crap yesterday already.
That's L-1, incidentally.

[Mitillos]

@queen: chk was getting grilled for his Rach hammer and you hammered him without even asking for a claim? This is not a pro-town action. Why on earth would you end discussion, so unthinkingly?

Vote: Mcqueen

Anyone who voted chk for his hammer and isn't at the very least questioning queen's actions, should take a good hard look at what they're doing.

@CF: I thought we discussed your scumread on me and I countered your point. Do you have a new reason for it, or...?

[Mitillos]

@CF: Fair enough, I suppose. And no one else has piqued your interest, at all? Seems unlikely.

@queen: And he asked to be replaced. His replacement would most likely have claimed; most players do, when at L-1.

[Mitillos]

My vote did not end the day. It did not stifle discussion. queen's did both of those things. There is a very big difference between our votes, so no, I don't agree that "calling foul" on queen is wrong.

[Mitillos]

Unvote:

@CF: Why did you not come out with this information earlier? There was absolutely nothing to gain from withholding it.

[Mitillos]

@CF: What the hell? You're like, my strongest town-read. You should really not jump on my questions like that... They're not accusations.

[Mitillos]

@CF: Think what you will.

[Mitillos]

@Pro: Is foolishness scummy?

[Mitillos]

Ow.

Hawk seems town. I'm not 100% sold on his kmd case, but I will sheep it, if nothing better presents itself.
CF wants me dead, but he's most likely town. Jalyn is also on the wagon, without good reasons. Could be scum.
I have no idea about anyone else...

[Mitillos]

What is this I don't even

[Mitillos]

Why would the same person (if scum) put himself on both mislynches (as scum, he'd know they'd be mislynches) and leave himself open to something everyone uses, like vote analysis? Particularly when there are 3 scum, so it would be easy to shuffle them around a bit.

[Mitillos]

Pointing out null-tells is WIFOM? WIFOM is not a null-tell itself? Whence did you pull all this out?

But seriously, I'm as bad a mislynch as Rach was.

[Mitillos]

I didn't know Rach was town, at the time. It was a bad wagon, in hindsight. If you see what I mean.

[Mitillos]

I did think she was scum. I was wrong. As you are right now, for thinking that I am scum. Which is kind of what I was getting at.

[Mitillos]

@zab: It wasn't necessary. I was making a point.

@Cheery: A mislynch is a mislynch.

@CF: Because she somehow should have known his alignment, before you revealed your investigation results? That's a terrible argument. mcqueen hammered without waiting for a claim. Anyone who did vote him, before your claim, should be getting townpoints, instead.

@kmd: I am a terrible lynch, but there certainly are 3 people who are scummier than me. The scumteam. I think you're wrong about Pro, though.

[Mitillos]

*shrugs* Just picked one and brought it up. And yes, I was the penultimate vote in both the previous lynches.

[Mitillos]

@CF: 1) So, what is the argument? 2) I already responded to that, when mcqueen said it. 3) He was NOT a confirmed townie, before you made your claim. At that point he had been a mislynch hammerer.

@Jalyn: Again, voting someone who's being replaced and hammering them are two different things.

@Kmd: Meh.

And because there have already been two rushed hammers:
Claim - Doctor, N3. That was why I picked Rach's mislynch, to bring up.

[Mitillos]

Trying. And failing, obviously.

[Mitillos]

Soooo...

Anyone going to believe me, unvote and scumhunt some more?
Since this doesn't seem to be the case, here is my advice:

Vote: Jalyn

I'm not liking zab's play much, either.

[Mitillos]

@Jalyn: You did make your argument clear. I do not agree with it and I explained why. I believe you are hiding behind CF's tunneling, to get me mislynched, which is why you are happy to stick with a flawed argument. I can elaborate, though.

Firstly, your predecessor did virtually nothing except take a jab at tiger and slimer, when it seemed fairly safe to do so and fluff a bit. Nothing big, but nothing too great, either.
Then, you came in and did a bit of catching up, giving some reads and so on, everything was fine. However, I note that you had a scumread on mcqueen and a townread on me. Day 2 happened, day 3 started, you came in voting me, without a single thought in mcqueen's direction, even though his hammer was at least as bad as my L-1 vote (though I maintain it was strictly worse). Remember that your vote came 9 posts before CF's claim. This makes it seem like your mcqueen scumread was merely for show and not a sincere one.

[Mitillos]

... The game only has cops, doctors and goons.

[Mitillos]

@kmd: I would like you to claim please.

[Mitillos]

@kmd: You countered Pro's #1465 by saying "If you've found scum, you need to convince the rest of the town you are right.", implying that this is what you were doing. And yet, your contribution on that end was minimal. Also, you said yourself that you didn't engage your suspects in more conversation. This implies that you're so convinced of their alignment, that you do not care to reevaluate. Only scum know everyone's alignment.
Your claim is identical to chk's, which does not make it impossible, but it is convenient, as Pro said. It's right on the edge of the LyLo, where more information would seem to make a difference. This is actually not the case, because we have some information already.
I think you're scum and I hope I'm right.

Vote: kmd

[Mitillos]

I protected ProHawk. I also expected to be killed overnight.

[Mitillos]

I protected Pro because I read him as town and, if I am correct in my read, he has been the most useful town player so far. He led the kmd (scum) wagon and did not join the chk (town) one.
Also, as I said, I expected to be the kill-target, so it kind of didn't matter what I did. I even toyed with the idea of not protecting anyone and seeing what would happen.

[Mitillos]

@Pro: I believe I made a case on Jalyn yesterday when I voted her. I'm not as committed to it as I was yesterday though, what with her Doc claim. Also, your top two scumreads seem to be zab and HD. If either flips scum, does this change? What about if either flips town?

@CF: Wanting to be right about my alignment doesn't make you right about it. Particularly since your case seems to be based on a single post, which you took to be something other than it was. As an exercise, tell me this: if you ignore your previous read on me, who is scum and why? How exactly do HD's and Pro's alignments change due to Jalyn's claim?

@zab: There was a bit more to Pro's case against you. Is that all the defense you're willing to make?

@Jalyn: I think your vote didn't count because it wasn't on a new line. Do you have a case on Cheery, other than Kmd not attacking him?

[Mitillos]

@Jalyn: I'm not really sure how that points to Cheery-scum, rather than kmd just not being thorough. In fact, if Kmd and slimer had been partners, I'd expect kmd to say something like "the only two people who fit these criteria are Jalyn and slimer and we all know slimer is just VI, so by PoE, it must be Jalyn".

[Mitillos]

@Bacde: Do you have a case against him?

[Mitillos]

@Bacde: You're not exactly confirmed town yourself. It is still possible that CF lied and that the two of you are the scumteam. And I already explained why I protected ProHawk, which also gives an explanation as to why he could be the target for last night's kill.

[Mitillos]

@Bacde: ... No, I'm saying you are not confirmed, even if you say you are. You don't have the innocent child role, or something similar. The reason everyone (including me) thinks you are town, is that CF (whom I also read as town) claimed to have investigated you and got a result of "innocent". This makes you likely town, but not confirmed. The point is, your case on Pro isn't convincing me. You're saying that he won't tell you what's happening, but then, no one else is, either. It's not exactly simple to condense 60+ pages of information. Also, if you want to know what happened, you should look at the game, yourself. You also say others were suspicious of him, but this is not a case. This is some form of sheeping where the leader has already left, but you're following what he was doing. So, once again, do you actually have a case on Pro? If not, I'm going back to reading everyone's ISO's.

And yes, I am defensive of Pro, because I protected him last night and no one died. It's not confirmation, but it's evidence that my choice was a good one. Also, he led the wagon on kmd, so, scum would likely want him out of the way, in case he figures out the rest of their team.

Naturally, it is possible that mafia no-killed. It's also possible that they tried to kill you, Jalyn is also a N3 Doc and she protected you, as she said. Or, Pro was their target and my protection was what stopped the NK. Or, someone else is also a N3 doc and didn't say anything. I think those are all the possibilities. But, I can't see a reason for mafia to no-kill, in a game with only power roles and I have no evidence of Jalyn's alignment, whereas I know my own role. So, the scenario that makes the most sense to me is that Pro was the kill target.

[Mitillos]

@Bacde: I don't know why I bother typing things, if you're just going to keep ignoring what I say. As far as I'm concerned, Pro was the most likely target for last night's kill, for leading the kmd wagon, so I protected him. The answers to almost everything else you asked me are in my ISO already.

Also, the part about Pro getting flak, that is a non-argument. Everyone starts out suspicious of everyone. That's how town should be. The fact that Pro had 3 votes on him (at least one from confirmed scum) does not make him scum.

And just in case you miss it, yes, I do think Jalyn is possible scum. I voted her on D3 and made my case on her. Her claim today is the reason I'm not voting her, at this time.

[Mitillos]

@CF: I would, if I could figure out who is the scummiest. I'm not particularly liking zab, but from what I see, he has a reputation for having a scummy playstyle in general, so I'm reserving judgement on him. I'd like to hear more from HD and zab as to why each of them believes the other is scum. Also, I asked you and Pro some questions in post 1538. Could you answer them, please?

[Mitillos]

@CF: Well, you only mentioned the post where I asked Pro what he meant and then the one where I called him town, but alright.

[Mitillos]

Also, I'm trying to decide if No Lynch is a good idea in this situation. Any thoughts?

[Mitillos]

@Cheery and CF: OK, thanks.

@Bacde: Many happy returns.

[Mitillos]

@CF: So, have you had a chance to ponder your reads some more?

@Nacho: Welcome. I think you replaced into a scumslot.

@HD: Who is zab's remaining partner?

[Mitillos]

@HD: Because I think we should. We have a scum flip already. Finding both the other scum should at least be a viable endeavour now.

[Mitillos]

@Cheery: Why? I don't have a scumread concrete enough to vote someone. How does that imply that I can't expect someone who does to also have a secondary one?

[Mitillos]

As I mentioned before, I'm thinking zab is scummy, but it could be just a playstyle thing, hence the conflict... And then there's Jalyn/Nacho, but I'd like to see Nacho talk a bit first.

[Mitillos]

@Bacde: Because if he's not, he bussed his partner pretty hard, when there was no need for it.

[Mitillos]

@Nacho: You misread me in the past. You're misreading me again now (or you're scum and picking a bad lynch, since I'm essentially a VT now). Luckily my ISO is short, so you can enjoy reading the rest of it and changing your mind.

Vote: zabriel

If he's town, Cheery is potential scum.

[Mitillos]

^That was also a very scummy post. If you think I'm scum, you should be voting me, not asking others to vote me first, so you can hammer.

[Mitillos]

@HD: 5 to lynch, I have 3 on me. HD very probably town for that.

@Pro: I don't know for certain if Jalyn was lying. My read on her is scum, though. I'd ask you to lead the wagon on her tomorrow, but I doubt you'll survive another night.

I am now essentially a VT, so I don't mind my lynch as much as I did yesterday, though do keep in mind tomorrow will be MyLo, if someone dies tonight.

Scumteam is most likely zab/Nacho. If I am not today's lynch, I am prepared to switch my vote from zab to Nacho.

[Mitillos]

I urge you all one more time to reconsider my lynch. If all remaining NKs happen, we only have one mislynch left. By CF's reasoning, Nacho should be at least as good a lynch as I am, right now, with the added bonus of probably not being town.

[Mitillos]

So, ProHawk. A post, you say?

[Mitillos]

No one is conf-town. Riot claimed cop with innocent on Bacde. The best we can say is that IF Riot is town, Bacde is town too.

[Mitillos]

The Puck started by voting fuzzy (Bacde). He then moved to tiger (CF), after there was a wagon on him (3 other people). Jalyn replaced him and unvoted. Then, when there were 3 others on Wisdom, she voted Wisdom. Wisdom wagon lost a bit speed, but kmd joined it as well. Then everyone other than these two left it. I really don't think that the final VC clears Nacho in any way.
The only thing that casts doubt in my mind is how kmd voted Jalyn. If it was bussing it looks slightly off.

[Mitillos]

I gave my reasoning for Jalynscum after I voted her on day 2 (see post 1464). Her push on me was essentially baseless (look at post 1343), her voting was nothing more than coasting (following D_O and mcqueen on Wisdom, with a scumread on mcqueen and then following CF on me, when mcqueen was still a viable scumread). I'm not sure what more you would need, when your reason for being against a Nacho lynch has to do with precisely her voting patterns.

[Mitillos]

@Pro: "Shit, another mislynch... What the fuck, mcqueen?" Also "Damn it, I need to study for my midterms."
As for my voting, it was cautious the last time we played, too. It's how I am, irrespective of alignment.
Anyway, I'm already on zab. Can't help you much more than that.

@HD: So you're saying that it's zab with CF?

[Mitillos]

Sorry, I meant Cheery, yes. The thing is:

I have nothing to convince people HD is the best lynch since I'm lazy.

Assuming you meant C rather than H, yes that's where my thoughts have put it now.

The second quote was saying that CF is zab's teammate. But the first one seems to say that HD is a better lynch than either?

[Mitillos]

@Nacho: So, HD is bussing me in a stagnant game and that makes no sense, but I'm bussing zab in the same stagnant game and it does make sense?

[Mitillos]

@Nacho: I had lower activity on D1, zab had lower activity on every other day. It makes perfect sense that our interactions would be minimal, particularly when you remember that he got prodded 5 times. And calling our interaction soft-distancing assumes that we're scumpartners to begin with, which begs the question. How exactly do you differentiate a minor scumread from distancing, when you (supposedly) don't know the alignments of those involved?
Did I also turn against kmd in the same way? If so, are you saying that I am systematically attacking my own scum-partners? If you believe I'm this suicidal, why not help me get rid of the second one, by voting zab?

p-edit: Shouldn't we let him claim or something first?

[Mitillos]

I just don't like hammers without claims. We've had one of those in this game already...

Oh well, he's most likely scum anyway, so whatever, hammer him and get it over with.

[Mitillos]

I kind of expected Bacde to die, what with being conf-town, after yesterday's flip. I'm thinking scum killed CF to throw suspicion on me. This makes me think HD isn't the remaining scum.

[Mitillos]

@Nacho: Because that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. The hammerer could have waited just as well, if it had been an issue.

Anyway, if we're lynching me today, I'd like to ask for a mass-claim, first. I think there shouldn't be any problems with it, at this point.

[Mitillos]

@Nacho: Because if I get lynched, I want to at least get some information I won't normally have, and give my final thoughts on that, which I won't be able to do tomorrow. And, if you believe I am scum (which you say you do, along with HD and Cheery, since you're all voting me), it shouldn't really matter, since my lynch would end the game, in that situation.

[Mitillos]

Well, Pro agreed. Nacho, HD and Cheery, do you guys agree? You should, as I explained before. Bacde, how about you?

[Mitillos]

What was B&B's action? Or Wisdom's? We have no idea. Did they even get a chance to take them? Did Wisdom, for example, investigate Jalyn on Night 1 and find her to be guilty? I think we can afford to potentially lose one action (though we probably won't), in exchange for knowing all the actions there are to know already.

[Mitillos]

More town points for HD, since CF died instead of Bacde and HD was aware of mcqueen's claim. Similarly, Cheery is more scummy now.

[Mitillos]

@Bacde: Yeah. That's your slot. Do you want to change your claim?

[Mitillos]

If we don't happen to have a night 5 cop, it's even more important that we get all the information now, before the next kill, just in case the remaining scum decides not to kill Bacde, lucks out, and we lose info that we could have today.

[Mitillos]

It is possible that both Nacho and I are town and scum is one of Pro/HD.. I personally think Nacho is the last scum, though.

Since everyone claimed N5 Doc, though, we have an alternative. We no-lynch. We have Bacde protect Cheery. We have both Pro and HD protect Bacde. At least one is telling the truth, so both confirmed town (Cheery and bacde) are certain to survive the night. Meanwhile, Cheery investigates one of the 4 potential scum (me, Nacho, Pro, HD). Scum will most likely kill one of these three, as well. With any luck, Cheery will investigate someone else. Even if Cheery gets an innocent result, we have 3 confirmed townies and 2 non-confirmed, tomorrow. Lynch one, then the other, town wins. The only snag will be if Cheery happens to investigate the kill target. So, I recommend rolling a die to decide that. That way, there will be no way for scum to predict his investigation target and kill accordingly.

Vote: No Lynch

[Mitillos]

You may have a point. I need to think about this some more.

Unvote

[Mitillos]

Yeah, Pro is right.

Vote: Nacho

[Mitillos]

Not sure if the last part about Bacde not protecting Cheery is even necessary. Scum can only kill one person, anyway. If one of the protection targets dies overnight, we will know immediately who the liar was, if we know whom everyone is protecting. But in any case, the plan seems good to me. It guarantees 100% town victory. I am fully in favour of Pro's plan.

p-edit: Nacho at L-1. I'm only unvoting so that we don't have a hammer before Bacde assigns an investigation target to Cheery and protection targets to himself, HD and Pro.

Unvote: Nacho

I will vote him again once everyone is clear on the plan.

As a suggestion, we can have Cheery investigate HD, HD protect cheery, Bacde protect HD and Pro protect Bacde.

[Mitillos]

Given the above suggestion:

Scenario 0) Nacho is scum. 3 scumlynches in a row, yay.
Scenario i) Cheery dies - HD is scum.
Scenario ii) Cheery does not die and gets guilty result - HD is scum.
Scenario iii) Cheery gets innocent result, Bacde dies or I die - Pro is scum.
Scenario iv) Cheery gets innocent result, Pro dies - I am scum.
Scenario v) Cheery gets innocent result, nobody dies - 5 alive, Pro or I are scum. Lynch until town victory.

[Mitillos]

It would also be nice to see what Nacho thinks of all this. He's at L-1 again, so he may want to just admit he's the last scum and get this over with.

[Mitillos]

@Nacho: The thing is, we all already knew that Bacde was a N5 Doc. Mcqueen claimed ages ago. If someone claimed N5 Cop, great, Bacde protects him, no problem. That's why I was confident a massclaim would help.
And yeah, what Bacde said.

[Mitillos]

Alright. Let's do this.

Vote: Nacho

[Mitillos]

Just in case Nacho is trolling: Pro -> Bacde. Bacde -> HD. HD -> Cheery. Cheery -> HD.

And yeah, Pro was great this game.

[Mitillos]

Man, I have no idea how I survived after getting to L-1 for 3 days in a row.

@Pro: Nicely done.

[Mitillos]

@CF: Your night action and claim saved us from a third mislynch. Mcqueen got really close to being lynched early on D3. Without that, we'd probably have lynched me on D4 and then lost the game right there.

@Wisdom: Personally, I like your style of play, for what it's worth.

[Mitillos]

Well, Jalyn wanted to take away my credibility with her claim. After that, it was impossible for Nacho to claim anything else and all the unclaimed people were town at the end. The funny thing is, she could have not made the N3 Doc claim and say that there was no kill because I just wanted to prove my claim, letting the WIFOM take its majestic course.

[Mitillos]