Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

ProHawk · Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:21 pm

/confirm - Horray for the Dentist Joke

ProHawk · Post Post #142 (isolation #1) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:39 pm

Six pages and its only the first real-day. I think I will enjoy this game.

In post 34, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:VOTE: prohawk

For buddying up to the mod.

We all know the secret to success, only a select few are willing to do what it takes

How does Mollie go six pages, without knowing who she is voting?

Does this not read as disingenuous to anyone else?

I am seeing town in Tiger, and I am seeing town in HD. Both of them have voluntarily brought themselves into the limelight. This is actually the most I have seen HD post. Ever. Pirate Molly on the other hand is content to pop in every once in a while to stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction. She also has expressed viewing scum in HD and Fuzzy yet still won't move her "serious-lol" vote.

VOTE: Pirate Molly

ProHawk · Post Post #148 (isolation #2) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:00 pm

Thats a good question, why don't you ask the person who posted the following.

In post 73, pirate mollie wrote:hey wisdom do you want to lynch hd? cos I am thinking I do!

In post 99, pirate mollie wrote:stop it about ongoing games

don't make N do something, it is hard for him

liking wisdom for town

fuzzy jesus christ can you possibly look any scummier, but I happen to know that you can

I am good for my hd vote for now

In post 134, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 100, Human Destroyer wrote:Generally when you say a vote is good

You make the vote

who is my vote on remind me

ProHawk · Post Post #149 (isolation #3) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:01 pm

Actually a better question is, why would a person really not know who their vote is on?

ProHawk · Post Post #151 (isolation #4) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:07 pm

To look like a village idiot? Why do scum do the things that they do?

ProHawk · Post Post #154 (isolation #5) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:10 pm

This is all beside the point. The reason she is scum is

A) She is staying out of a large heated battle between two people that are likely both town.
B) She is making jabs into the argument, without directly engaging in it.
C) She won't vote for people she claims to be scum - voting hesitance.

The fact that she claims to not know where her vote is, well that is just silly in and of itself. She didn't the last game I played town with her. She was more than confident to place votes and seemed to be very competent. And she wasn't worried about sticking her neck out.

ProHawk · Post Post #156 (isolation #6) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:14 pm

The only way that works is if you have never seen scum-Mollie do any of these. At least make a good meta-case if you want to defend her as-such.

ProHawk · Post Post #158 (isolation #7) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:24 pm

So if I play against anyone who loves meta, all I have to do is do everything scummy as town and then it goes from scummy--->null. Got it. Thanks for sharing your Wisdom. Wisdom.

ProHawk · Post Post #173 (isolation #8) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:10 am

In post 161, petroleumjelly wrote:Also, kindly cut down on the swearing.

In post 164, tigerzone wrote:in other words, fuck off petroleum.

In post 167, petroleumjelly wrote:
Requesting Replacement.

Real classy Tiger. I wholly support a policy-lynch of Tigerzone unless he replaces out. In fact, I won't vote for anyone-else.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TigerZone

ProHawk · Post Post #183 (isolation #9) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:43 am

I want him gone for his charade. If he doesn't leave, he needs to be forced to leave by being lynched. I don't care if he is town or not. Take what information you can from his lynch and lets start the second day on the right foot.

ProHawk · Post Post #188 (isolation #10) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:16 am

In post 185, pirate mollie wrote:I don't agree either and do I really have to give the talk where we have to deal all sorts of people in this world and that tolerance goes a long way in learning how to avoid human suffering

This is not an issue about tolerance. This is not an issue about whether or not swearing should be allowed. This is an issue of a player who politely requested to calm the language down, and in tiger's subsequent post he specifically told that player to f*** off. This is an absolute of lack of respect, lack of tolerance, and complete indecency on account of tiger.

Its apparent that tiger is here to be a troll. There is absolutely no place for this, if the mod isn't going to do something about it, its the job of the players to stand up and destroy this meta before it spreads like a plague. If you want to allow bullies and trolls take over the game, then don't vote for tiger. People like this take the fun out of the game, and drive players away. He needs to go.

ProHawk · Post Post #190 (isolation #11) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:24 am

What don't you see about him trolling players?

So him wanting to lynch a player before he can post and be serious about it isn't trollish to you?

Him driving a player away isn't trollish to you?

What do you consider a troll?

ProHawk · Post Post #194 (isolation #12) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:28 am

His behavior is uncalled for.

ProHawk · Post Post #198 (isolation #13) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:37 am

Absolutely not. I will stand up for petroliumjelly based on principle alone.

I will vote for tiger the entire game if he isn't lynched today. If N has replacements lined up, I will replace out of the game so I don't ruin town's chances at winning. I have yet to ask for replacement so as to not be a burden on the administrative tasks of this game.

P-EDIT: I never was fine with shrimp accusing you of cheating, and Adam's bullying was not over the top, at least I didn't see it that way. Wisdom has been defending everyone, so I don't find it uncharacteristic that he takes the devils advocate role often.

ProHawk · Post Post #201 (isolation #14) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:48 am

There is no tolerance for disrespect.

ProHawk · Post Post #340 (isolation #15) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:52 pm

I was waiting for Tiger to post before deciding the direction I wanted to take on this game. It seems like he is just going to ignore what he did, which only confirms the person and player that he is. As it appears to be some confusion on the matter, I am disgusted by how he treated petroliumjelly and only used Zepher as evidence toward him being a troll. I will be replacing out solely for how he disregarded petroliumjelly with blatant insolence.

Just a couple game related comments before I go.

The meta-game that was linked to show Mollie doing these "scum-tells" as town isn't exactly true. While she did leave her random vote in play for a long time, and tell people that she wouldn't be pressured into voting for someone, she never voiced her opinion that she had found scum (like she has in this game) until she was ready to vote.

If you want to use meta to clear someone, you have to have both town-meta, and scum-meta. You have to be able to show that she only does something as town, while never doing it as scum in order to be credible. Saying someone is town because they do X as town doesn't hold water because they may do the same thing as scum. Finally, take this game where she readily votes multiple times as town. Therefore, if she withholds her vote as town, and votes frequently as town without withholding it... you get the idea.

@Mod - I apologize to have to do this. I take my commitments to play these games very seriously and this saddens me to have to say this is my first game I have had to ask for a replacement. However, Tiger has made his post and refuses to take any responsibility for his actions. The players here have also made it known that they will not support getting rid of Tiger. I refuse to stand idly by and "forgive" his complete lack of respect toward the players here, or be "tolerant" of abusive behavior that will drive players away from this game. I know I do not want a community made up of players with the integrity that Tiger exhibits, and anyone who is tolerant of such behavior is only inviting the same. Therefore as a matter of principle, I request replacement.

ProHawk · Post Post #341 (isolation #16) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:53 pm

EBWOP -

Zepher

zabriel

ProHawk · Post Post #345 (isolation #17) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:08 pm

Nice meme Tiger, that dude looks just like you.

ProHawk · Post Post #369 (isolation #18) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:23 pm

Time to get back up to speed.

UNVOTE:

I still find Mollie's beginning play suspect despite the defenses which haven't really touched the surface of the accusations in my opinion. However, I am sure with a Majiffy head things should get a whole lot more clear.

/sarcasm

Here are a few things I found on my re-read.

In post 262, Wisdom wrote:
In post 261, Human Destroyer wrote:
Right now we should be lynching mollie and Wisdom, so the fact that we aren't doing it is bad

Add "wants to lynch two townies" in my reason for being on your wagon

HD picked up on this, while it may have been a slip, more telling is the fact that he (Wisdom) hasn't been particularly vocal about being so sure that Mollie is town, especially not enough to make it a reason to lynch HD for. I have seen way too many "Thats not my intention" and "null" words pointed in her direction.

Also not liking the quick jab at HD during their argument.

In post 293, Wisdom wrote:On the other hand, scum will be lazy because they don't actually need the proof.

This was an off-hand remark to paint HD as scummy, also one which I somewhat disagree with. While its true scum don't need proof for themselves, they absolutely need proof to back-up their claims otherwise fake-scum-hunting becomes transparent

very

quickly. While not all scum will play the same, the good ones will put a lot of work into their game. It definitely takes a lot more work to play scum well than it does as town.

And lastly, this comes after getting his third vote from Mollie.

In post 327, Wisdom wrote:What I know is that there are at least 3 people (Siveure, kmd and The Puck) who have barely posted anything useful so far. For all we know we could all be town fighting each other while they lurk.

Sounds like a deflection of attention to me.

VOTE: Wisdom

Random Comments:

In post 237, theslimer3 wrote:Not yet. I don't wanna ruin my no NK streak.

Maybe you should bribe the Mod to let you be scum in every game. Problem Solved.

ProHawk · Post Post #371 (isolation #19) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:48 pm

What you said and what you meant to say are two different things.

If they knew they wouldn't find anything to be able to falsely incriminate her, that's one thing, but if they could find something to help their cause, at least I know as scum I would be all over it.

Would you like to comment on you calling Mollie town with a null-read?

ProHawk · Post Post #376 (isolation #20) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:11 pm

Mollie, my vote initially landed on you, how could you have forgotten?

Wisdom, that was incredibly fency of you. How does HD pushing a lynch make anyone town? And how can you say Mollie is town, but not have a townread?

ProHawk · Post Post #472 (isolation #21) » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Sorry guys, have an important exam coming up, I won't be much help until after Monday

ProHawk · Post Post #696 (isolation #22) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:23 pm

Sorry for my hiatus. One topic that keeps popping up this game that is bothering me a little bit, and it comes up quite frequently in games on M_S, is all of this talk about meta. Not ever have I seen a decent meta case that has been shown to have a correlational relationship with the alignment of a player. For those of you using meta heavily to base your arguments off of: I would like you to point me in the direction of evidence where meta was a successful determinant of a players alignment.

My take

: Meta is a weak determinant of alignment and is way too often used as a crutch to scum-hunting. I would love to have someone prove me wrong though...

So catching up, I tried to look at it with an eye of Wisdom being town, but things just kept popping out at me that I couldn't seem to ignore and further confirmed my vote.

In post 491, Wisdom wrote:Indeed, and
that's what I am going to do if he continues his bullshit
. I only don't do it because I am not sure if he's just tunneling like you or if he's actually scum. Usually town tunnels on me, so I am reluctant to draw conclusions so easily.

1) Why wait to vote for someone who you think is scum? (I realize he answered it in his next sentence)

It looked to me like he is avoiding an OMGUS accusation by withholding his vote. It tells me he is definitely concerned with how he is viewed in the group, which isn't necessarily a scum-tell in itself. However, its how he reacts to being accused of placing an OMGUS vote is what ping's me as scum. D_O makes a comment about his vote being an OMGUS, and without any refutation, Wisdom sarcastically brushes it off as something scum would say.

2) His response to question #1 seems off to me in an illogical sort of way. (This is why I saw an ulterior motive in his lack of action)

Wisdom, what makes you as a player attract town-only tunnelers as opposed to scum-tunnelers? Do you believe that only town will tunnel players in general? Or is it only when they tunnel you? From that post #491, D_O did continue his "bullshit" and you waited 48 posts to place a vote after testing the waters with Mcqueen. What took you so long to build-up the courage?

In post 639, Wisdom wrote:I only have to say that if your gut says "D_O must be town because Wisdom must be scum", you'll be probably wrong about both. That's why I asked you to read our exchange but apparently you didn't do it with an unbiased mind.

Here is another post that is off from what Wisdom had originally coined as his thought process. Here is an example of Wisdom arguing that using your gut to get alignments off of players based on who they are pushing, is probably wrong.

In post 373, Wisdom wrote:
I have already commented on why I called Mollie town there - I felt HD was scum trying to push her lynch and mine - which would make both of us town. Other than that, I don't have a townread on mollie.

Yet, here much earlier on, he uses his gut-read of HD being scum giving him the ability to say Mollie is town in his case against HD.

RE: KMD

In post 610, Kmd4390 wrote:The last time I played with prohawk, he looked obvtown (although some people disagreed). He doesn't look that way here.

This is a pretty scummy setup post, IMO. No reasoning as to why I don't look obvtown, no evidence to how I looked obvtown, just a setup for some future case that will come down the line. The thing that struck me as odd is the last time we played together, KMD was scum, so his eye on my play was biased, he didn't need to look closely at my "obvtown" play. Oddity #2, do scum often leave the obv-town players alive? He left me alive to LYLO. Oddity #3, I have never had anyone tell me that I have ever looked obv-town as town. In fact, I have been mis-lynched D1 twice, and have rarely been night-killed.

In post 610, Kmd4390 wrote:Prohawk, so mollie is scum for having a scum read on human? Also why would being scum make you forget who you are voting?

Did I say Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? Did I imply that I thought Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? I thought I was pretty clear on why I thought Mollie was scum... Please explain why you came to that conclusion.

Being scum doesn't make you forget anything, and actually if you are a decent scum-player it may even make you more hyper-aware. My point is it felt like a charade to me. This is what is scummy. Being fake, specifically in this case, so later on you can use your earlier "mistakes" as a way to get people to look the other way at other things later-on down the road.

RE: McQueen.

I don't see what he is doing as scum-motivated, especially on the first-day without having been under a whole-lot of pressure. His posts, where he isn't sarcastic and acting dumb, suggest to me he has a deeper thought process.

ProHawk · Post Post #699 (isolation #23) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:37 pm

At which post did you change your mind about voting D_O?

ProHawk · Post Post #701 (isolation #24) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:43 pm

Maybe I missed that... who wanted to form an HD wagon?

ProHawk · Post Post #705 (isolation #25) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:59 pm

I just went back to check, and your assertion that HD had 3 votes at the time is false. He had one vote from the less-active Mit, and gained one vote from Beauty before you voted. If you want to argue that you were under the assumption that there was a wagon from that D_O posted, that would be more believable to me. I still don't understand why you limited yourself to those two options...

Riot, you would find that quite comical.

ProHawk · Post Post #708 (isolation #26) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:08 pm

Slimer, you should vote for your scum-read instead of look for memes that contribute nothing to the game. I really would like to avoid the "who can look the most idiotic" battle between you and mcqueen that seems to be brewing.

ProHawk · Post Post #710 (isolation #27) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:16 pm

In post 706, Wisdom wrote:So no, I didn't limit myself to anything.

If you didn't limit yourself, then the only other explanation is you let your scum-read limit your vote?

ProHawk · Post Post #713 (isolation #28) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:28 pm

I guess what I don't understand Wisdom is you were on a wagon (McQueen), then you let your scum-read (D_O) convince you that there were only two viable voting choices (HD or yourself), then you say you would rather be on a D_O wagon (who wasn't a wagon and still isn't a wagon) instead of keep your vote on the wagon you were originally on. If you wanted to be on a wagon, you could have stayed with McQueen.

So your reasoning for voting D_O looks contrived IMO when you started talking about wagons and comparing him to HD. It doesn't add up to me. Now you are back onto McQueen. It's quite the hopping.

ProHawk · Post Post #714 (isolation #29) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:30 pm

In post 711, theslimer3 wrote:Bite me.

Tempting, but you might be contagious. Contagion has me paranoid

ProHawk · Post Post #764 (isolation #30) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:03 pm

In post 749, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Mollie - I agree with Wisdom re: mcqueen, particularly since he ramped up his VI-posting after I said some of his actions gave me pause as to my scumread on his slot.

You both are doing a piss poor job at being a hydra. I feel like I am playing a game with mollie and Majiffy, when I should be playing a game with BeautyAndTheBeast. Make your decisions and comments to each-other outside of the thread so that we can actually read one collective unit instead of two conflicting heads this whole game. KThx.

D_O, I know you probably feel alone when arguing with Majiffy, but all you really have to do is just ignore Majiffy's dumb insults and life goes back to normal. If it makes you feel any better, I would like you to stick around.

ProHawk · Post Post #781 (isolation #31) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:59 pm

In post 770, CF Riot wrote:Prohawk say something game related. You still about the Wisdom wagon? Should I sheep Majiffy and vote D_O?

Have you not been reading my posts? Yes, Wisdom is still on my scum list. I don't care what you do, just make your own choices so you can't pawn them off on someone else when you are being eyed as possible scum. Nothing that has been said has either addressed my points on Wisdom, or made me want to change any of my reads.

ProHawk · Post Post #783 (isolation #32) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:05 pm

Did I say there was a scum-reason? My point of his scummy action is the contrived vote for D_O, this hopping is just showing the lack of conviction for his reads which only strengthens my read of his D_O vote having been contrived.

ProHawk · Post Post #786 (isolation #33) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:45 pm

If Wisdom is having a conflict of reads, its internal because I haven't been able to discern anything like what you are describing... do you have any evidence to support your claim?

ProHawk · Post Post #789 (isolation #34) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:11 pm

@Majiffy

Use two different web-browsers.

Riot, lack of conviction reads like fake to me, not "I once believed one thing, and now that X transpired, I have changed my read." Like you are trying to explain.

ProHawk · Post Post #791 (isolation #35) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:29 pm

No, what I am saying is people should explain why, if they don't its either fake, or an internal conflict both of which we have no way to determine. I don't recall Wisdom having mentioned any of his reads changing, he just moved-on to the next big thing.

ProHawk · Post Post #793 (isolation #36) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:57 pm

Less about what you did, and more about how you did it.

ProHawk · Post Post #795 (isolation #37) » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:07 pm

I will get to a compiled list of my reasons/other reads maybe tomorrow. My other scum-read is KMD.

ProHawk · Post Post #799 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:01 am

I feel like people aren't reading a word I am saying **sigh**

He isn't scum cause he is a lurk-sack. Click on the link and feast upon my words.

ProHawk · Post Post #989 (isolation #39) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:58 am

In post 965, RachMarie wrote:
at mod does the investigation/doc protects come before the kills in the night resolutions? It did not make it very clear in the Wiki? In other words, if a player gets NKed by scum, does their night action still go through?

I don't understand someone who has played multiple mafia games would have this question...
I also don't understand why this question was presented in the thread instead of in a PM...
Also not digging the soft-claim this early on without sufficient pressure.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Rach

I am calling BS and I would like answers to both of these Rach.

ProHawk · Post Post #1122 (isolation #40) » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:46 am

In post 1121, RachMarie wrote:I most definitely would not have claimed a N ONE Doc hello? Scum would have wanted to claim at least Night 2 or 3... And more likely Cop instead of Doc.

There are different scum-motivations for claiming what they claim.

1) Make a believable claim that people won't want to lynch.
2) Force a counter-claim.

The problem with 2 in this setup is that there is a possibility that roles can double-up. So there is no surety that there aren't two of the same roles. That makes counter-claiming that much more risky. Hence, the more tactically sound claim for scum would follow the first motivation, which is exactly what your claim was attempting.

So either you didn't do any real research on the setup, or you are trying to make a play on players who aren't familiar with the setup to avoid being lynched.

ProHawk · Post Post #1203 (isolation #41) » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:32 pm

VOTE: KMD

He still hasn't responded or acknowledged any of my accusations against him...

ProHawk · Post Post #1211 (isolation #42) » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:15 pm

So you make a post, and then go back to "catch-up" on stuff from before your post, without bothering to see any responses to your post?

ProHawk · Post Post #1213 (isolation #43) » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:17 pm

Aaaand, cue the Mollie unvote-revote....

ProHawk · Post Post #1223 (isolation #44) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:30 am

Easy wagon is... easiest. Amirite HD?

ProHawk · Post Post #1225 (isolation #45) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:45 am

In post 799, ProHawk wrote:I feel like people aren't reading a word I am saying **sigh**

He isn't scum cause he is a lurk-sack. Click on the link and feast upon my words.

...at least you're consistent I suppose.

ProHawk · Post Post #1227 (isolation #46) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:51 am

Completely ignored anything I said. Is just skimming and taking it easy, which isn't scummy in and of itself, but when combined with the crap he wrote against me earlier, it makes sense as scum.

ProHawk · Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:27 pm

The two are independent events. Try again.

ProHawk · Post Post #1240 (isolation #48) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:17 pm

That he is still dodging? How freakin hard is it to click a link and address some concerns?

ProHawk · Post Post #1241 (isolation #49) » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:19 pm

Your attempt to push a counter-wagon to him is admirably noted.

ProHawk · Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:45 am

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

ProHawk · Post Post #1284 (isolation #51) » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:42 pm

Way to keep up your title McQueen.

ProHawk · Post Post #1285 (isolation #52) » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:53 pm

I would consider your lynch of chk a policy lynch Mit as he was replacing out. He had no way to defend himself.

ProHawk · Post Post #1299 (isolation #53) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:16 pm

VOTE: McQueen

Freaking liability keeping this fearless scum-around. Disguises himself as a dumb-townie.

ProHawk · Post Post #1304 (isolation #54) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:10 pm

Kill it with fire. Slimer, this is a good lynch to get rid of your competition.

ProHawk · Post Post #1307 (isolation #55) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:17 pm

Says the guy who quick-lynched a townie who asked to be replaced with lotsa time left in the day...

ProHawk · Post Post #1311 (isolation #56) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:33 pm

Cause you are a freaking moron who is going to lose the game for us if you even are town (which I doubt). I'm not hiding behind anyone dude. Get over yourself.

ProHawk · Post Post #1313 (isolation #57) » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:37 pm

The days aren't guaranteed.

ProHawk · Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:35 pm

In post 1320, CF Riot wrote:@Pro, where's this McQueen scumread coming from? Last I heard you wanted to lynch Kmd. Do you have anything on him besides derp cause D3 is a little late for a policy lynch.

Are you trying to tell me his Day 2 play comes from town? Cause it looked pretty dang scummy to me, and if he is doing it as town, keeping him around will lose the game for us.

ProHawk · Post Post #1333 (isolation #59) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:58 pm

Ok, Riot. Since you keep saying what I am doing is a policy lynch, you tell me why it's so bad at the moment.

You agree that his play was scummy D2, yet you are sitting here arguing with me because i'm saying its a tactical move in addition to lynching a possible scum-dude?

Kmd, I will get to your post in a bit.

ProHawk · Post Post #1335 (isolation #60) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:02 pm

You're a moron McQueen. If you're not scum, you should be ashamed.

ProHawk · Post Post #1337 (isolation #61) » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:19 pm

All you can do is beg, so...?

ProHawk · Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:56 am

Welp, this game is pretty much lost for us. I need to do some math and theory runs with this setup cause counter-claims are useless.

KMD, lets take a look at my post and your responses side-by-side.

In post 696, ProHawk wrote:

RE: KMD

In post 610, Kmd4390 wrote:The last time I played with prohawk, he looked obvtown (although some people disagreed). He doesn't look that way here.

This is a pretty scummy setup post, IMO. No reasoning as to why I don't look obvtown,
no evidence to how I looked obvtown
, just a setup for some future case that will come down the line. The thing that struck me as odd is the last time we played together, KMD was scum, so his eye on my play was biased, he didn't need to look closely at my "obvtown" play. Oddity #2, do scum often leave the obv-town players alive? He left me alive to LYLO. Oddity #3, I have never had anyone tell me that I have ever looked obv-town as town. In fact, I have been mis-lynched D1 twice, and have rarely been night-killed.

In post 1317, Kmd4390 wrote:Prohawk, I ISO'd you to find your case (or response to my post apparently...).

I. My early slight gut scum read on you

A. You said there was no evidence for my read.
It was a general feel kind of thing.
Instead of asking what prompted it, you choose to attack it.
B. You claim there is no evidence of you looking obvtown before. False. We have played exactly one game together. Artemis Fowl Mafia. I thought you looked obvtown. If you wish to dispute that, go to that game, ISO me, and show me where I am wrong. Granted, I was scum there. But I didn't lie when I called your play town there. The only time I called you scum was in LYLO when I ran out of options.
C. I see I touched on this on B. You claim that because I was scum in Artemis Fowl mafia, my view was biased and I didn't need to pay attention. False. Because I was scum, I already knew your alignment and could better grasp your town play. I wasn't wavering on what your alignment could be. I already knew therefore I got a good feel for your town play. I get the same effect when I mod. It's like the ultimate meta. Also, I've always said scum need to pay MORE attention than town to have a truly successful game.
D. More Artemis Fowl meta. You have an issue with me leaving you alive and calling you obvtown. People didn't seem to share my read. I'm not sure why. You genuinely looked obvtown to me though. And you were never lynched so...
E. You claim you've never been called obvtown as town. While I may not have used the phrase "obvtown", it should be obvious in my ISO that I saw you that way.

First off, I don't have to go prove something that you claim to be true. If you don't provide the proof, it doesn't exist.

Let's take for example when you mod a game and you know who the scum are. How easy is it to catch the scummy things that scum-players do? It's super easy to say "wow, that was scummy he is so obv-scum". Compared to being a player, its not so cut and dry. Of course my posts were obv-town to you because I was town! Part of being scum is you have to play with the flow of the town, so not lying about me being obv-town was just advantageous for you. For example, if people are calling me scum, you might feel like its better to buddy up. Or your scum-buddy might be riding me hard, so you don't want to be caught right along-side him and choose to call me obv-scum. In this case I was pushing a policy-lynch on your lurking scum-buddy so you attacking me in that case would have been incriminating. I'm not saying you lied, I am saying that you had other motives in mind when playing.

You can say you thought I was obv-town all you want, but the fact remains because you had information others didn't you had a bias.

Also, how many of you as scum leave the obv-town players alive?

What I am saying here is you are spinning a ball of yarn about my "obv-town" meta. You are attempting to make a meta case against me without taking the time to actually do it right and its scummy.

In post 696, ProHawk wrote:

In post 610, Kmd4390 wrote:Prohawk, so mollie is scum for having a scum read on human? Also why would being scum make you forget who you are voting?

Did I say Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? Did I imply that I thought Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? I thought I was pretty clear on why I thought Mollie was scum... Please explain why you came to that conclusion.

Being scum doesn't make you forget anything, and actually if you are a decent scum-player it may even make you more hyper-aware. My point is it felt like a charade to me. This is what is scummy. Being fake, specifically in this case, so later on you can use your earlier "mistakes" as a way to get people to look the other way at other things later-on down the road.

In post 1317, Kmd4390 wrote:

II. Your Mollie read as it relates to her Human read

A. You ask if you said this. It was strongly implied:

prohawk wrote:Pirate Molly on the other hand is content to pop in every once in a while to stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction.

"Stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction" is just a nasty way to say "has a scum read on Human".

I guess that's it. Also, while I'm on Prohawk...

Prohawk wrote:
VOTE: McQueen

Freaking liability keeping this fearless scum-around. Disguises himself as a dumb-townie.

Prohawk wrote:Kill it with fire. Slimer, this is a good lynch to get rid of your competition.

^Clearly trying to capitalize on Human's vote and the reaction that mcqueen's play typically gets.

Vote Prohawk

You're completely off base on this one. But its really because you failed to read the post where I

specifically

outlined my case on Mollie. Instead you take fragments of things I have said and try to interpret them for yourself.

prohawk wrote:Pirate Molly on the other hand is content to pop in every once in a while to stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction.

^This is evidence for my Point B on why Mollie is scum.

In post 154, ProHawk wrote:B) She is making jabs into the argument, without directly engaging in it.

So no, it doesn't imply that I thought Mollie was scum for having a scum-read on HD in the least. What it is implying is that she was attacking him. Only you inferred as to the reason of the attack.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: KMD

ProHawk · Post Post #1379 (isolation #63) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:23 pm

Umm, you clearly don't have a problem with what McQueen did during the last game day and instead use it to vote me for "capitalizing".

You tried to set me up D1. You still aren't showing what I did D1 that was obv-town vs what I have done in this game that isn't.

Still going over the past days, but I will let you know if I find anything else.

ProHawk · Post Post #1382 (isolation #64) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:23 pm

Case is in #1379.

Hammering a player that you think is scum is different than speed-hammering a player literally three days into the beginning of the day before Jalyn even makes a post. Top that off with hammering a player who was going to be replaced. Anyone who doesn't want to kill that anti-town play is a fool. Town or Scum.

ProHawk · Post Post #1384 (isolation #65) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:27 pm

Foolishness? No.

Depriving us of information? Yes.

Speed lynching town? Yes.

ProHawk · Post Post #1386 (isolation #66) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:03 pm

Do you see me wanting to lynch McQueen at the moment? Try looking at my post in context.

ProHawk · Post Post #1390 (isolation #67) » Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:10 am

Great. Then lynch me and lose. Or win in your case.

ProHawk · Post Post #1406 (isolation #68) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:23 pm

O the irony.

ProHawk · Post Post #1408 (isolation #69) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:29 pm

Can't wait to see the results.

ProHawk · Post Post #1410 (isolation #70) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:35 pm

Thanks for proving my point McQueen. Carry-On.

ProHawk · Post Post #1413 (isolation #71) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:50 pm

That's pretty much why.

ProHawk · Post Post #1415 (isolation #72) » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:03 am

Not because he thinks I am scum. It's more like he doesn't care whether I or anyone-else is scum or not.

ProHawk · Post Post #1465 (isolation #73) » Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:14 pm

Went over KMD's ISO.

Votes in Order:

Pirate Molly
Sive/RachMarie
Wisdom
ChkFlip
ProHawk

Jayln
Mit

I know for a fact that his first five votes for players up to me are town. While ya'll don't have the benefit of seeing me as town, you can either drop me from the pattern, or take my word for it.

I said. "he doesn't care whether I or anyone-else is scum or not."

Riot Said. "I have not gotten that impression from his posts."

Lets take a look at his votes and follow-up with them.

Vote Siv.

ISO #6 - Outlines his case.
ISO #11 - Pretty sure Siv is scum.
ISO #13 - Maintains a slot-read on a replacement.
ISO #14 - Scum read on Siv doesn't have to do with his inactivity level or voting.

Where in any of his posts does it look like he has done anything to get a better read on Siv? He just noted a few things he observed and stuck to it. No questions, no additional observations of posts, nothing.

Vote Wisdom.

Same Pattern.
ISO #15 - Outlines his case.
ISO #17 - Dodges a response to Wisdom.

Where are any posts to further his scum-read?

Vote chkflip

This vote is slightly different than the Wisdom, and Siv votes in that he is noting additional scummy things, but it is still with a biased eye. He clearly has already made his decision.

ISO #6 - Starts to suspect Disturbed/chkflip
ISO #13 - Disturbed/chkflip might be Scum.
ISO #15 - Adds more observations.
ISO #21 - Affirmed the Chkflip vote.
ISO #25 - First question to a votee, which was more of an accusation than a question.

These are just a few examples. His vote on me has a lot more interaction, mostly because I have a vote on him and have been directly engaging him. I am not feeling like he is trying to determine my alignment. But, I feel like the biggest piece of evidence that shows he isn't really scum-hunting, but rather setting up his mis-lynches is the fact that not one of his reads has changed. If someone is truely scum-hunting, they will get reads wrong, they will change and evolve over time. I have not seen much evolution in his reads, especially not due to self-analysis.

ISO #6 - Slimer is town. This read has not changed.
ISO #6 - Siv is scum. This read never changed.
ISO #15 - Fuzzy/McQueen is town. This read didn't budge despite the scummy things McQueen had done.
ISO #15 - DO/Chkflip is scum. This read never changed.
ISO #29 - Hawk is scum. Hasn't changed.

Any read I missed that has had an evolution KMD?

If any of you take the time to read the posts that KMD has made on me in his ISO, it is also painfully obvious that I was scum from his first analysis of my posts and I haven't budged at all. Any points he made against me were made in such a way as to paint me as scum.

KMD said it best himself.

In post 1007, Kmd4390 wrote:
The way I see it, I'm still reading, throwing out opinions, and all that.

He reads, then throws out opinions. There are more interesting aspects to his ISO, but this wall is quite long-enough.

tl;dr -

He has a track-record of voting off townies.
KMD isn't scum-hunting because he is scum.
He needs to be lynched today.

ProHawk · Post Post #1484 (isolation #74) » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:59 pm

N4 is just a little too convenient for me.

ProHawk · Post Post #1496 (isolation #75) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:34 am

In post 1279, CF Riot wrote:A couple of you non-voters should just finish this off so we don't have to sit on our hands waiting for another replacement of this slot that we're clearly going to lynch at some point.

Riot, can you explain your motivation behind this post please?

ProHawk · Post Post #1497 (isolation #76) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:50 am

VOTE: Zabriel

I am pretty sure this slot is scum based off of interactions with KMD. I can wall later if ya'll want a case.

ProHawk · Post Post #1500 (isolation #77) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:37 am

The fact that he protected me and no-one died last night is about as clear as you and your cop-result on Bacde.

Can you then explain why you decided to cop McQueen/Bacde?

ProHawk · Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:00 pm

I'm also good with an HD lynch... but I would like to hear what both HD and Zab have to say first before hopping off of Zab.

ProHawk · Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:11 pm

Last two scum head-to-head?

ProHawk · Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:25 pm

...you didn't start it.

ProHawk · Post Post #1520 (isolation #81) » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:57 pm

Hey HD, why Zab?

ProHawk · Post Post #1522 (isolation #82) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:01 am

At the current moment, that frightens me.

ProHawk · Post Post #1524 (isolation #83) » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:55 am

Working on it Bacde.

ProHawk · Post Post #1531 (isolation #84) » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:31 pm

What's the deal with all of these unvotes without a re-vote? Scum hiding this well to you?

ProHawk · Post Post #1533 (isolation #85) » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:07 pm

Lemme get my wall up on Zab and tell me where you stand after that.

ProHawk · Post Post #1534 (isolation #86) » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:33 pm

Zab-Scum:

There are few points I would like to make as to why I am pretty sure that Zab is scum.

First, his activity has been waning, which is characteristic of early-eager scum turned complacent and tired of keeping up a ruse.

D1 - 69 Posts - approx 7.5 posts/day
D2 - 1 Post - approx <1 post/day
D3 - 8 Posts - approx <1 post/day
D4 - 2 Posts - approx 1 post/day

It is also worthy of note that during day 1 Zabriel went V/LA and has not been V/LA during any of the subsequent days.

Second, his pattern of votes have been placed with little thought or care and his vote on HD is well, OMGUS.

Finally, what I first noted when I voted for Zabriel was his shady interaction with KMD. It pretty much started with this.

In post 796, zabriel wrote:Why KMD over the rest of the lurksacks ProHawk?

I wasn't calling out KMD-scum for lurking by the way, in fact, I never even mentioned anything about lurking. Zab pulled that up all on his own.

After showing Zab my case on KMD, it then escalated into a small "slap-your-wrist" fest with the following exchange.

Spoiler: Scum-Scum Exchange

So after calling me out for calling KMD scum, he then agrees with me, but not enough to pressure KMD with a vote, but begins an awkward back-and-forth with him. "Srsly bro" is an acceptable response to Zab's concern, and "Dunno haven't really read it." is cool with him too. Never once does Zabriel return to address KMD, vote, or even talk about KMD.

Next comes the bus on Day-3.

In post 1365, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 1345, zabriel wrote:I don't think Mitillos is to blame for McQueen deciding to drop the hammer.

I'm getting really tired of McQueen's VI antics. That hammer was terrible, and I think it's time for this to happen.

VOTE: McQueen

^You scum bro?

In post 1380, zabriel wrote:UNVOTE: McQueen
VOTE: KMD

KMD's vote looks opportunistic and Prohawk
is making a good case.

In post 1381, Kmd4390 wrote:Zab, opportunistic would be
jumping on mcqueen the way you did.
Also, where's prohawk's case? All I. See is his responses to my case on him and a vote.

Its important to note that Zabriel never responded to KMD and just let his vote-park until he was lynched.

In post 1463, zabriel wrote:
In post 1422, Kmd4390 wrote:Wait.

Jalyn has to be scum unless:
A) all three scum can be found in the mislynch wagons (unlikely)
B) CF is scum who lied about clearing mcqueen (still possible, but it's early enough not to worry about that chance)

unvote, vote jalyn

This analysis?

This was his only post related to KMD before he was lynched.

Anyone want to post an ISO analysis of Mit and Jalyn?

ProHawk · Post Post #1540 (isolation #87) » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:16 am

Thats why I compared posts/day, as compared to total posts.

ProHawk · Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:25 am

So do you care to make a formal case as to why you believe HD is scum? Aside from placing a "sheep" vote?

ProHawk · Post Post #1545 (isolation #89) » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:08 pm

Spread a little thin HD?

ProHawk · Post Post #1556 (isolation #90) » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:34 pm

Try your same browse through on Zabriel and tell me where you get Cheery.

ProHawk · Post Post #1559 (isolation #91) » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:28 am

Because I am town?

ProHawk · Post Post #1562 (isolation #92) » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:12 am

There are two claimed doc saves. So I have no clue if I was targeted or not.

I am not going to tell you about the game, do the work yourself. What I was planning on doing was giving you some direction should I not be around later, but still haven't found the motivation to do so.

ProHawk · Post Post #1564 (isolation #93) » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:47 am

Stalling because I won't give you a summary of the game? Right....

ProHawk · Post Post #1569 (isolation #94) » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:10 pm

Bacde, just take a look at mine and KMD's ISO and tell me if you are seeing a hard-bus from both of us.

You should also know that I was the one to initiate the whole attack on KMD when he had little to no suspicion on him.

ProHawk · Post Post #1583 (isolation #95) » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:13 pm

Bacde, we need to lynch HD or Zabriel today. ISO them and get back to us, or actually work up a decent case on me if you honestly think I am scum for blowing you off.

ProHawk · Post Post #1585 (isolation #96) » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:09 pm

Not certain actually. There is a pretty good chance one of Mitt or Jalyn is scum due to their claims. I would need to re-read them if we are going to consider taking that direction today.

ProHawk · Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:01 pm

Hello Nacho, please provide us with some direction.

ProHawk · Post Post #1597 (isolation #98) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:11 am

Then why is your vote on me, and not on confirmed scum, or if you were being sarcastic, on who you are trying to rail on?

ProHawk · Post Post #1614 (isolation #99) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:13 pm

Plenty of info to get a scum-read... unless you are having some internal conflict?

ProHawk · Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:40 am

Hey you three not voting... we have four days left lets get a move on it!

ProHawk · Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:15 am

In post 1619, Bacde wrote:^^Why does anyone think this guy is town?

^^Why do you feel like a reincarnation of McQueen on methylphenidate?

ProHawk · Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:54 am

Pleading for a lynch pre-vote? That's awkward...

ProHawk · Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:38 am

Mit, get your last post in. The timing of the doc claims makes me say gut that Jalyn was lying, but I may be wrong.

ProHawk · Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:40 pm

Why aren't we lynching Zabriel again?

ProHawk · Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:20 pm

Alright, gimme to tomorrow or Saturday to get a big post in and I may cast the last vote.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:35 am

Workin on it, its a long one.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:06 am

Starting off with the classic VCA. Individual voting patterns will be addressed in the individualized post to come subsequently.

Day 1 Mis-Lynch:

Spoiler: Count with Colors

Three players ended the day with more than one vote.

RachMarie

,

Chkflip

, and

Wisdom

. All three were town. The known scum,

KMD

was found on the Wisdom wagon along with Jalyn. Personally, I find it highly unlikely that both scum were isolated on a town-wagon that gets night-killed that night to reveal his alignment as town.

I will not lynch Jayln/Nacho today based on this VCA finding unless a substancial amount of evidence is presented as to why he is scum.

Day 2 Mis-Lynch:

Spoiler: Count and Colors

Two wagons on Day 2:

KMD

and

Chkflip

. One town wagon, and a counter scum-wagon with three players not voting.

KMD

was on the mis-lynch wagon, so the question remains as to if any of his comrades joined him for the mis-lynch, or if they avoided it. With Chkflip making his own lynch easy by playing like a fool, I personally feel like the rest of the scum-team avoided the wagon and let town finish him off. Which was the case (McQueen's early Hammer) unless both Riot AND Bacde are the remaining scum-team.

Day 3 Scum-Lynch:

Spoiler: Counting with Colors

Two major wagons finished off the day.

KMD

and Mitillos. I can't decide if the counter wagon to

KMD

was another scum-wagon, however my gut says no. If Mit turns out to be town, there is a good chance either HD, or Riot is scum pushing the counter to

KMD

; I have a hard time believing all town pushed a counter to a scum-lynch.

VCA Looks Particularly bad for:

CF Riot - On both Mis-Lynches and Off the Scum-Lynch.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:59 am

In post 1674, Bacde wrote:Dang, I mean I'm down to lynch riot now but if he flips scum I'ma have to start taking this game more seriously

Is it just me or does this not make much sense?

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:28 pm

Cheery's logic sounds pretty plausible to me... although I think there are better lynches than Riot today.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:45 pm

Like I said, if you want to push Nacho, you are going to have to do better than that.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:44 pm

Not voting pattern, just how the vote fell at the end of the day. Haven't gotten to any patterns yet.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:57 pm

Yo Mitillos, what was going through your mind after chkflip turned up as town?

ProHawk · Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:18 pm

After going through the more players' ISO's, I have come to the following conclusions:

HD

: There is a lot that strikes me as town, and yet a lot that strikes me as scum in this slot. He was very active and very vocal in the first day which is not often characteristic of scum, but he has since lost interest and has retreated to the side-lines.

HD's targets Day 1 (RachMarie Lynched): Tiger/Riot,

Mollie/B&B

,

Wisdom

, Mit,

RachMarie

.
HD's targets Day 2 (Chkflip Lynched):

Chkflip

,

KMD

.
HD's targets Day 3 (KMD Lynched): McQueen/Bacde, ProHawk, Mit.
HD's targets Day 4: Zab, Mit.

The biggest problem I see in HD's posts is that a lot of them seem feigned, especially his reads. He is largely inconsistent throughout the game with his reads and his votes. I am not going to go into a lot of detail here about it, but if anyone wants to see the evidence, I would be more than happy to present it.

Mitillos:

Mit's targets Day 1 (RachMarie Lynched): HD,

RachMarie

Mit's targets Day 2 (Chkflip Lynched):

Chkflip

Mit's targets Day 3 (KMD Lynched): McQueen, Jalyn,

KMD

.
Mit's targets Day 4: Zabriel

This cat is super, super cautious when it comes to voting. I don't really have much time to meta him and see if this is his normal play as town, but I generally feel gut-scum for players like this. There have also been a few scummy posts from him, especially recently. However, the vote and attack from KMD doesn't read like a bus to me, and him being wishy-washy on KMD also doesn't seem like he was trying to get any credit from a KMD scum-flip. I could be wrong though... while I would like to think that I was the person Mit saved from death, it may be skewing my view. All-in-all, as I mentioned in my VCA post, a Mitillos flip would shed some light on the counter-wagon to KMD's wagon. Another fact that is bugging me is he claimed the day before the no-kill. Why would scum chance trying to kill someone who might have been priested when they could have just killed the priest himself?

Zabriel:

<---------------------- We need to lynch this one today.

Read This Again for my thoughts on the scummy aspect of his ISO.

Zab's targets Day 1 (RachMarie Lynched): TigerZone/CF Riot, HD, ThePuck/Jalyn/Nacho,

Siv/Rach Marie

,

DO/ChkFlip

Zab's targets Day 2 (ChkFlip Lynched):

Chkflip

Zab's targets Day 3 (KMD Lynched): McQueen/Bacde,

KMD

Zab's targets Day 4: HD,

Then we get this little gem...

In post 1067, zabriel wrote:VOTE: DO
I'd really rather not risk having no protection tonight. I feel pretty okay about the case on DO. I can do this or Mitillos today.

I am not sure if its just me, but he sounds way too sure that Rach's claim is real, and not wanting to risk going without protection sounds faked, real faked.

And this...

In post 1089, zabriel wrote:Intent to hammer. Is there anything left for us to get done today?

The real hammer comes from post #1197 by Chkflip. He was more than hesitant to follow through with his threat to hammer town.

Too tired to go through Riot, Bacde, Nacho and Cheery at the moment and is a whole-nother can of worms considering they have all been replacements. While Riot has been in for a while, I am willing to ride on his claim and his result especially considering the low number of cop-claims we have he is more likely than not telling the truth. I am a little less sure about Jalyn/Nacho but still don't want to lynch that slot today. Cheery needs to put out a lot more as Slimer gave us literally nothing to work with.

I would love some help lynching Zabriel today, but if you guys can't pull through and vote Zab... I would compromise on Mit.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:09 pm

So now... just gotta figure out if your retreat is due to what you say it is or not... also Zabriel's being replaced doesn't change me wanting him to get lynched, anyone else gonna help out here?

ProHawk · Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:18 pm

VOTE: HD

You been goin after easy stuff all game HD. Lets get on this.

ProHawk · Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:30 pm

Not at all what I was referring to.

In post 1222, Human Destroyer wrote:If I were to just base it on the Wisdom NK, chkflip and/or Mitillos are scum. Maybe add mcqueen to that.

VOTE: chkflip

Largest wagon is largest, my D_O townread was slowly eroding all day, plus that Rach quickhammer sucked.

In post 1223, ProHawk wrote:Easy wagon is... easiest. Amirite HD?

Ring a bell?

ProHawk · Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:34 pm

Oh wait, lets see this WHOLE string, cause it is scummy as all get out. ESPECIALLY when you see who you switched your vote to and never returned to.

In post 1222, Human Destroyer wrote:If I were to just base it on the Wisdom NK, chkflip and/or Mitillos are scum. Maybe add mcqueen to that.

VOTE: chkflip

Largest wagon is largest, my D_O townread was slowly eroding all day, plus that Rach quickhammer sucked.

In post 1223, ProHawk wrote:Easy wagon is... easiest. Amirite HD?

In post 1224, Human Destroyer wrote:ProHawk can you link me your case to Kmd? I'm too lazy to go find it myself, but I remember you making it.

In post 1225, ProHawk wrote:
In post 799, ProHawk wrote:I feel like people aren't reading a word I am saying **sigh**

He isn't scum cause he is a lurk-sack. Click on the link and feast upon my words.

...at least you're consistent I suppose.

In post 1226, Human Destroyer wrote:It isn't that I don't read

It's just that I was too lazy to go dig it up again

Can you give me your thoughts on posts from Kmd after that point and/or not related to attacking you in some way, shape, or form?

In post 1227, ProHawk wrote:Completely ignored anything I said. Is just skimming and taking it easy, which isn't scummy in and of itself, but when combined with the crap he wrote against me earlier, it makes sense as scum.

In post 1228, Human Destroyer wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kmd

ProHawk · Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:37 pm

And yes, when you do flip scum, this will be an easy scum-team kill.

ProHawk · Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:53 am

I am calling that there is no way that scum-Mit would have been counter wagon to TWO scum wagons. Nope. Lynch HD.

ProHawk · Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:41 am

Ok Bacde, show me who led the counter wagons and show me how they were that good.

HD, when were you a counter wagon?

ProHawk · Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:13 am

Scum would never kill to frame someone...

Going back to check that wagon and counter HD. I will get back to you.

ProHawk · Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:06 am

In case anyone didnt notice... Mit is at L1. No accidental hammer people. Yall voting for Mit have shallow cases if I remember correctly.

ProHawk · Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:16 am

I am good with a mass claim. It needs to be popcorn style with the scummiest player going first. I vote HD claims first.

ProHawk · Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:06 am

HD, would you be opposed to going first?

ProHawk · Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:52 am

I would still like HD to go first and popcorn out.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:23 am

HD, claim and popcorn out please.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:53 am

All-right, my turn. I am also a Night 5 Doctor.

BACDE, stop being a freaking moron. We know you are town. Look at your role card and make sure yours says Doc, or tell us if McQueen was lying. If McQueen was lying, it is CRUCIAL that you tell us now as this is going to narrow down our pool of scum tremendously. If you are lying all of the PoE will fall flat on its face.

There are one too many doctor claims - Here are all of the doctor claims:

BeautyandTheBeast - Confirmed
RachMarie - Confirmed
Nacho
HD
BACDE
ProHawk
Mitillos

In post 1, N wrote:The 10 town players may be split 3 ways:
4 cops and 6 doctors
; 5 cops and 5 doctors; or 6 cops and 4 doctors. The mafia will be told which powers are in the game, but not who holds each power or which nights they work.

Now, it looks like the setup we have is 6 Doc's and 4 Cops. Therefore, with 7 claimed Doc's and one scum-remaining all we have to do is go down the list of unconfirmeds and lynch until we hit scum.

UNVOTE: HD
VOTE: Nacho

Bacde has been Cop-Cleared. I want to say that Mit wouldn't have been a counter-wagon two days in a row to scum, and I doubt HD scum would have claimed Doc when he knows the number of cops and docs. His claim would have resulted in his eventual loss. Honestly, it comes down to Mit and Jalyn/Nacho to lynch today. I vote we lynch Nacho.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:14 pm

The probability is there, albeit very low. Thats why BACDE needs to get on board if McQueen lied as town to try and cover being a cop.

Mit protected me, lets kill Nacho first.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:30 pm

Nacho's post regarding a mass-claim

In post 1756, Nachomamma8 wrote:i guess massclaiming is fine, although i'll admit i haven't thought about it much at all
it just seems like with the claims being unknown, bacde is an optimal target for anyone
but if we don't happen to have a night 5 cop, then scum could manipulate how lylo is gonna end up
and if we do have a night 5 cop, sure bacde's gonna protect him
but it's not like he'd get shot if we didn't massclaim

Mit's post regarding a mass-claim

In post 1728, Mitillos wrote:@Nacho: Because that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. The hammerer could have waited just as well, if it had been an issue.

Anyway, if we're lynching me today, I'd like to ask for a mass-claim, first. I think there shouldn't be any problems with it, at this point.

Both had already claimed by then. If either are competent scum would know that a mass-claim would spell their death. Which post looks like scum?

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:31 pm

I would rather lynch scum today than mis-lynch and lynch scum tomorrow.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:40 pm

How so?

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:44 pm

In post 1643, Mitillos wrote:@Nacho: You misread me in the past. You're misreading me again now (or you're scum and picking a bad lynch, since I'm essentially a VT now). Luckily my ISO is short, so you can enjoy reading the rest of it and changing your mind.

Vote: zabriel

If he's town, Cheery is potential scum.

In post 1644, Human Destroyer wrote:^That was a really scummy post

Consider this an intent to hammer

This is the only post and the only evidence/case you have against Mit. Lets hear why you think he is the last scum.

Also, what changed your mind from this?

In post 1505, Human Destroyer wrote:Yeah Mit would be town now.

Conf-town list:

Mitillos
ProHawk
Bacde

I guess CF Riot gets townpoints for claiming cop at a weird time too.

Leaving:

Cheery
zabriel
CF Riot

Jalyn

My reads have been fuck all this game so

VOTE: zabriel

Sheepity sheep sheep

You have Jalyn/Nacho in your list of scum.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:01 pm

In post 1779, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 1777, ProHawk wrote:This is the only post and the only evidence/case you have against Mit.

You mean other than the latter half of Day 1 where I attacked him nearly the whole way through, right?

I don't know, do your points still stand? Perhaps you would be willing to provide a quick summary for me.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:30 pm

Great, doesn't matter, so LETS LYNCH NACHO!!

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:31 pm

Listen, this will be my best town game ever, if I was to get three scum-lynches right in a row. At least help me out with that HD, especially if you don't really care.

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:24 pm

No HD, you are in this list too bro. Also, Town Mit doesn't confirm me, what are you smoking?

ProHawk · Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:32 pm

Good grief Mit. I am TRYING TO SAVE YOUR LIFE HERE!

No way scum will kill to make PoE easier to find and lynch them. Cheery will survive tonight regardless of who we lynch. He will have information for us tomorrow regardless of who we lynch (unless we kill scum and win, or unless his target dies). A no lynch is a terrible idea.

It looks like ya'll are going to be difficult so I will work on some more evidence gathering later.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:41 am

Here is another VCA with updated colors.

Day 1 Mis-Lynch:

Spoiler: Count with Colors

Where does the third scum lie in this vote count? Do you think that the day one mis-lynch was filled with town? I personally feel like the probability of this is extremely low. Jalyn/Nacho was not on the mis-lynch wagon along with two confirmed scum that stayed off it. That leaves

HD

,

Pro

, and

Mitilos

as possible scum.

Day 2 Mis-Lynch:

Spoiler: Count and Colors

Here is where things start to look a lot better for Mitillos. Three scum on a mis-lynch wagon? Highly unlikely. Mit looks town from this VCA.

Day 3 Scum-Lynch:

Spoiler: Counting with Colors

Is the third scum bussing his partner? Or is he helping to push a counter-wagon? Judging by how hard it was to get KMD lynched, I am leaning toward scum helping with the counter-wagon. This leaves

Nacho

and

HD

.

Day 4 Scum-Lynch:

Spoiler: This Should be the Last One

So um looking at these counts, I have come to the conclusion that I may be wrong about HD and his reveal. He continually keeps coming up in scummy voting positions, whereas both Nacho and Mit oscillate back and forth. I had originally said that Scum-HD would have been more likely to claim Cop than Doc with the knowledge of the total number of Cop/Doc's, as a Doc claim certainly confirms one player lying about their claim, but it is also may be likely that he didn't consider the implications, or was hoping that a foolish move would clear him to MYLO? Also three Night 5 Doc's is a bit excessive I think.

Looking at Day 1 - between Mit and HD

, Mit has been a major counter-wagon to scum two times, was on a mis-lynch wagon with two confirmed scum, and called for a mass-claim that would ultimately lead to his death. HD has been on the D1 Mis-Lynch with none of the confirmed scum-dudes. He avoided the Day 2 mis-lynch in a possible bus for cred attempt. The evidence clearly points to HD, and away from Mit. Jalyn/Nacho falls in as a close second with less positive evidence confirming pro-town play.

Basically Mit's play looks like he had no clue of what the scum-team was doing, whereas HD looks

exactly

like he knew where scum was. According to VCA evidence, the likelihood of scum is

HD >> Nacho > Mitillos.

I think we should do the following:

Of the four unconfirmed Docs, two are night 5 docs, two are night 3 docs. I propose that we determine which player in two groups is the scummier of the two. That is choose scum from

Pro and HD

; and choose scum from

Mit and Nacho

. We lynch one from the night 3 docs just to cover our bases and not inadvertently kill a night 5 doc. The other group needs to be copped. So if we figured HD was the scummier of Pro and HD, and Nacho was the scummier of Mit and Nacho, then we would lynch Nacho and HD would be investigated.

My vote that the two scum lie between HD and Nacho. I would prefer to just lynch HD as the evidence against him is overwhelming, however its better to be safe than sorry. But I believe that Nacho is the scummier of Nacho and Mit, so my vote is to lynch him first.

As was already mentioned I believe, one of us N5 Docs needs to protect Cheery. One of us needs to protect his investigated target, and one of us needs to protect BACDE, a confirmed town. Cheery, you need to make this list and make sure all of us confirm who we will be protecting. You also need to tell us who you will be investigating.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:43 am

Also, I don't think that BACDE should protect Cheery as he is already confirmed. Either HD or myself should protect Cheery because if Cheery dies, then the person who said they would protect him is confirmed-scum.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:28 am

I am fine with protecting you. We just need to get a finalized list of what actions we are all taking before the days end.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:28 am

I am good with Mit's plan.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:31 am

Looks like all we need is Bacde on-board and we will be good to go.

ProHawk · Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:15 pm

Nacho needs a good prodding. It must be the slot that makes people lurk!

ProHawk · Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:17 am

So close! At least I was right about Mit

ProHawk · Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:42 am

Scum should have been a lot smarter with their fake-claims. Too many Doc claims pushed PoE into an EASY category. If one of you would have claimed Cop we would have had to guess on the setup and the liar could have been either a cop or a doc. This was probably due to the lack of commitment on the part of the scum-team. KMD was pretty slow playing, Nacho/Jalyn/Whoever they replaced was just plain inactive. Zabriel also likewise didn't dedicate any time to his game.

That said. Good game all! Thanks for keeping me on N.

ProHawk · Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:36 pm

Oh, and thanks for keeping me alive Mit

ProHawk · Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:49 am

Wow, that is pretty amazing. First game that scum haven't been on the lynch-wagon. Did any of them jump off after the role-claim?