Space Monkey Mafia: GAME OVER!

[Zindaras]

Unvote

. No time to re-read now, will re-read before deadline.

[Zindaras]

Huh? I want to re-read and be able to actually post, not suddenly have bird hammered and find myself in Night.

[Zindaras]

Okay, that was a pretty quick re-read.

We started off with an odd bandwagon on MBL. I find bird's, CES's and inHim's votes to be oddest. Bird then tried to slip out of it without too much fuss, and inHim's just acting really odd.

Klebian's QFT post was a bit odd as well, and it gave him a notch up on the ol' scum-meter.

I've noted that in Post 80, Phoebus votes my predecessor, which I found rather odd.

In post 99, StD voted Glork for his behaviour, which I also find odd. While Glork's behaviour may have been silly or even just outright stupid, I've come to expect that of him.

Nightson has been behaving very oddly all game. I don't see where he's coming from. At all. I'll admit I haven't played with Nightson a lot, but this isn't how my memory says he usually plays.

While I found bird's behaviour to be quite scummy, I believe the 'wagon against him is probably scum-driven.

So I'll go ahead and

Vote: Nightson

, as I find the birdwagon to be reeking of gorillas.

[Zindaras]

Huh? I want to re-read and be able to actually post, not suddenly have bird hammered and find myself in Night.

Well you still have time. Make up your mind.
Imo lynch is better than no lynch. And bird seems to be scum on top of that.

*goes to reread the rules*

Ah.

Sorry, I didn't know that, in the event of no majority at deadline, we would get a no lynch. I'm not used to that rule. Well, as you say, any lynch is better than no lynch, and it doesn't look like we'll be getting rid of Nightson, so

Unvote, Vote: bird

.

[Zindaras]

Uhh...lol?

[Zindaras]

Lemme throw out a theory here. The Mafia didn't know MBL was one of their team. We've consequently only seen one kill (as far as you can call two nights in a row consequently). Bird, scum, put MBL at Lynch-1. I don't think that wagon would've happened if the scum knew MBL was one of them.

I am very much suspicious of PJ right now, due to the situations surrounding the bird lynch, but I'm not going to vote him right now. He's already at 5 votes, and with 8 to lynch, I don't want him to be quicklynched.

[Zindaras]

I need to reevaluate this game, PJ makes points, and I need to reread to see if they're good.

[Zindaras]

Zindie -- Part of me doubts that the scum didn't know that MBL was one of them. If they did (i.e., if MBL had a traditional Traitor role), targeting him normally recruits him into the Mafia; it doesn't kill him.

Doesn't Stoofer have a bit of a reputation for making "different" games? I faintly remember you something like that to me.

The lack of a kill on a pro-town player is pretty difficult to explain at this point. Nurse, Replacement/Backup, Roleblocker... there's really no way to tell. Let's just chalk it up to good fortune and focus on what we can figure out right now.

Hmm, I personally think my theory is a bit more likely. But, as you say, let's work with what we have.

Re-read pending.

[Zindaras]

As I said when I made the vote, the only reason why I voted bird was because we would've gotten a no lynch otherwise, and a lynch is always better than a no lynch.

Some things I've noticed:

Post 25: Ibby switches from MBL to bird. Assuming my theory is incorrect, for her to be scum, she would've had to vote fellow scum to begin with, then try to deflect the wagon into other scum. Something I find unlikely. There were other people to deflect the wagon to. I don't think Ibby's scum.

Post 30: inHim tries to get an MBL lynch anyway.

Post 33: Glork says it's just his playstyle. Well, obviously. The fact that Glork cried for MBL's hammah is not a tell at all. I can see him doing it from either side, even with the knowledge that MBL was scum.

Post 38-39: MBL zones in on klebian.

Post 49: StD calls bird out for unvoting.

Post 57: inHim really wants MBL dead...

Post 84: Twomz promises a more in-depth analysis.

Post 114: inHim insists Glork is scum.

Post 130: bird doesn't get why people are attacking Nightson and Glork.

Post 164: bird still doesn't get why people are attacking Glork.

Post 186: Pooky checks in?

Post 188: This post rubs me an entirely wrong way.

Post 233: Glork doesn't think bird is scum.

There's way too much conflict here. MBL and bird were pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum, and I didn't see any way in which they were both scum.

But they were.

I'm not liking Twomz at all, personally. Twomz and inHim.

Looking at Twomz's posts, his suspicions were MBL and Glork. I'm not sure if Masterchief has even checked in, ever. So I'm going to

Vote: Masterchief

for the time being, and

FoS: inHim

.

[Zindaras]

I'm not against hammering inHim, so I think he should claim by now.

[Zindaras]

Why am I confusing eight with six? >.<

Scratch that claim thing. I am willing to get rid of inHim though.

[Zindaras]

I'm not happy with what I'm seeing from Zindaras.

unvote PJ, FOS PJ, vote Zindaras

Hmm? I've expressed my suspicion against inHim before. What's so bad about my posting?

[Zindaras]

Zindaras, it's more for your setup speculation then for your inhim vote (although I don't like that either)

Ah. I see. Sorry, but if I see only one death for two nights, and suddenly, one of them is scum, even though the doc is already dead, I will be thinking more than just "yay".

I specifically said "But, as you say, let's work with what we have."

I'm not going to let my theory influence my play until we get more proof of it. I just think it's best to throw it out as quickly as possible, so people will be able to use it later on.

And I'm not voting inHim either, I'm just saying I'm not against hammering him. I'm voting Masterchief.

[Zindaras]

I like making my stance on people clear. It prevents me from getting screwed over later on for not saying things clearly. I'll agree I may have said it a bit too often this time around, though.

[Zindaras]

Well I know I wonder... but I doubt that the town is going to reach a general consensus today. And even if we did, I don't see it helping us find scum right now. A couple more days down the road, when there are more nights and more bodies, we can try to figure out why a Gorilla died. But right now? I don't see us getting much use out of the speculation. We likely won't arrive at a useful conclusion, and we may just end up being misled, whether intentionally or not.

That's pretty much what I said (let's ignore it until we get more information). I just wanted the theory to be out there, because I have quite the track record for dying.

[Zindaras]

My worry about Zindaras is more of a "Why did he leap to the idea that MBL was a traitor?" It suggests he might have extra knowledge of the setup.

I do agree that it seems likely that MBL was vigged rather than killed by scum; for example, the kill types for the two night kills are different styles (one left a charred body, while the other was a complete vaporization.)

Doc's dead, and I don't see roleblocker as a viable option. And I did think of the roleblocker option, yes. The reason why I didn't state it was because, if my theory is correct, it changes quite a bit for who is scummy and who is not.

I don't think a vig would kill MBL. I honestly thought he was town. That's why I crossed away that option. Leaving me with an SK, which then made my wonder why there weren't 2 kills Night One.

[Zindaras]

Glorky's case aganst Ibby is rather weak. You're taking one game of hers as scum and saying it's a tell. For one, I very much doubt that she changes the way she attacks players with alignment. That'd be a bit silly. For two, it's

one

game. As scum. I don't see a reason to assume, from one game as scum, that she does it always as scum, and never as town.

[Zindaras]

Mod

, could you prod Masterchief for us?

[Zindaras]

Okididoki.

Unvote, Vote: inHimshallibe

.

[Zindaras]

INHIM IS ONE FROM LYNCH!! SOMEONE HAMMER HIM QUICK QUICK SO WE CAN EAT BANANAS!

Hmm...bananas.

Glorky, as I said in the post where I voted Nightson, I was quite suspicious of bird, but the main reason I didn't vote him because the wagon reeked of scum.

As for the case against inHim, I don't like the way he put MBL back at Lynch-1, and the way he attacked PJ Day Two.

[Zindaras]

Ok first of all Zindaras. I've been meaning to ask you this for a while. Why do you have two kittens licking each other as an avatar.....

They're kissing. Here's the full version, which is also bigger.

[Zindaras]

One thing, PJ. I've never heard of a "Janitor" role before. Could you point me to a post/game/wiki entry that further describes the role? The way I'm reading it right now, having a Janitor is potentially broken, unless it's a one-use ability. Because otherwise, if I were scum and I had that role, I'd pretty much be going "Janitor X, Kill X" every night to get everybody thinking that Gorillas are town and that Space Monkeys are actually scum.

PK and I put a comparable role in Ghost Mafia: Return to Ghost Manor. The specific role was this:

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
20. Periwinkle Knight
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
As the proud leader of the rebellion for freedom in MPFG,

Periwinkle Knight

, you have taken up the mantle of being MPFG’s salvation. (And it’s next ruler, of course.)

As like any military leader, you know that…
1) You, as the leader, are always right.
2) If for some reason you are seemingly wrong about something…well, see rule one.

With this in mind, you have the authority to declare one person per night a threat to the well being of MPFG, and have them firmly, but mercifully, executed via day kill.

You also have the fiercest determination of any man alive to see scum die. So, you simply will not give in to death until a mafiate has died, you will persist on and live regardless of any type of kill. Anything a non-town aligned player would target you with also fails, simply because of your intense will to crush your enemies, as long as no mafiates have died.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

(Yes, I sent you the correct role.)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Mod Notes: If Periwinkle Knight would order the execution of a player, they always show up as mafia. On the first day, if PK is on a lynch, that player is automatically revealed as mafia no matter what post lynch scene. If he is not, they are town. On the first day, if PK was not on a lynch, The flavor for the day kill is someone being run through with a sword. The second time PK causes a mafiate to be revealed, PK falls over due to battle wounds and loses his ability to vote, thus preventing his alignment changing abilities from coming into effect.


There was no Mafia in the game, which was the only reason why PK and I put this role in. People didn't like it. We got a tonload of flak for it.

The role had the following effects:

Jester-->Mafia Aligned.
SK-->Town Aligned.
Unprofessional Doctor-->Mafia Aligned.
Cult Member-->Mafia Aligned.

Well, it is technically "possible" for scum groups to alternate kills (although the only time I remember this suggestion being made at the moment was from ralph merridewscum in Monopoly Mafia at Grey Labyrinth, so I doubt this is the case). It is also possible that kills have been blocked/doctored/redirected/run-up-against-unnightkillability/foregone for various reasons.

I always use alternating kills for scumgroups. Regardless of roleblockers, trackers, and whatnot, I let the Mafia send in a killer as well as a kill. The way of death varies with who made the kill.

[Zindaras]

Quick note: I don't like how Thok's trying to put down every bit of speculation. It seems to me like he's got something to hide.

FoS: Thok

for that.

[Zindaras]

SV? She's not even in this game...

If inHim is scum, I'd go as far to say that Thok is probably his scumbuddy.

[Zindaras]

a) I didn't state it as the only universal truth, I stated it as a possible truth. The whole point of speculation is to try to get insight into things you don't have insight on, or, if you suddenly have an insight, throw it in the group to see what others think of it.
b) And how would that work for me?
c) It does fit with the facts, Thok. The fact that a Gorilla, and only a Gorilla, was nightkilled last night, with no indication of other scumgroups, when there has been consistently only one kill (yes, only two nights. We'll see later on), is enough to warrant speculation.

[Zindaras]

Or the vig just didn't kill Night 1.

While your theory is most believable role-wise, I think there are a couple of discrepencies, behaviour-wise, which have me thinking otherwise.

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: How could you confuse sv with me, klebian? That seems pretty odd...

[Zindaras]

Okay, Twito, I can live with that.

Glork, what do you think of the following players:
-Thok
-Masterchief
-Me

[Zindaras]

It's an untestable role, and it's not power, so he's not painting a bullseye on his back.

Basically, it's what scum wants to claim.

[Zindaras]

>snipped opinions<

Okay, that makes me happier.

Regarding your theory, Zindie: I still do not see MBL being from the same scumgroup, esepcially if inHim is part of that scumgroup. Consider this: inHimScum attacked MBL basically all of D1. If he (or his mafia) decides to kill MBL, it would likely be because they think MBL is some kind of threat to them. Unless inHim was already going "MBL is probably an SK or part of a different scumgroup," it wouldn't make sense to kill someone you think might turn up pro-town. I'm not going to go out of my way to try to get someone lynched and then just nightkill them; it doesn't make sense, because if they die as town, it just reflects poorly on me. Now granted, none of us have any idea what inHim (or his potenetial scumbuddies) thought. But with two of the most vocal players (inHim and myself) pushing hard against MBL (another very vocal player), I would halfway expect that scum would leave us all to fight amongst ourselves.

Wouldn't it be rather odd for there to be two scumgroups in this game? I really don't see it happening, personally, as the story seems to indicate a fight between Monkeys and Gorillas, and no further evil. I'm no expert on the theme, but is there a possible second scum group?

Another problem I have with the vig-theory is that I'm not seeing the reasoning behind vigging MBL.

[Zindaras]

Eh, I seem to have missed most of that. I'll do a reread and see if I can get a better reading on MBL. My main reason for assuming he was town was the fact that bird was scum, I guess.

[Zindaras]

Meh,

Unvote

.

Personally, I'm rather convinced of inHim's scumness, and I will be moving my vote back, unless something strange happens.

[Zindaras]

No, I'm not going to hammer right now. Not when I unvoted yesterday to allow more discussion.

[Zindaras]

Killing MBL was probably a mistake and in retrospect, I don't remember why we decided to do so. I think the reasoning at the time was that it would create a lot of confusion if MBL and Bird both came up scum. If I remember correctly, I wanted to create the illusion of a killi having been blocked and a vig having killed MBLscum. It seemed to work out well enough... most players did something of a doubletake: "What? Both MBL

and

Bird were scum?

Yes, that was a mistake. It made me one hundred percent sure you were scum.

My first reaction to the knowledge that Space Monkeys were the informed minority was "So Glork and Twito are scum." It took me a couple of extra guesses to get Nightson, though. (which is also what I wanted to know in the PM, as I still thought the Gorillas were scum at that point. That's also how I arrived at my theory: the birdwagon Day One and the whole MBL-Glork interaction didn't make sense if the Gorillas knew each other)

All in all, I really enjoyed this game. It was a great set-up, and I loved playing in it. It's a real shame I died so early on, as I was really enjoying myself.