Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[mcqueen]

I'm already voting him silly.

I'm sorry. It's hard to keep track, when you keep changing your reads.

[ProHawk]

Welp, this game is pretty much lost for us. I need to do some math and theory runs with this setup cause counter-claims are useless.

KMD, lets take a look at my post and your responses side-by-side.

RE: KMD

The last time I played with prohawk, he looked obvtown (although some people disagreed). He doesn't look that way here.

This is a pretty scummy setup post, IMO. No reasoning as to why I don't look obvtown,

no evidence to how I looked obvtown

, just a setup for some future case that will come down the line. The thing that struck me as odd is the last time we played together, KMD was scum, so his eye on my play was biased, he didn't need to look closely at my "obvtown" play. Oddity #2, do scum often leave the obv-town players alive? He left me alive to LYLO. Oddity #3, I have never had anyone tell me that I have ever looked obv-town as town. In fact, I have been mis-lynched D1 twice, and have rarely been night-killed.

Prohawk, I ISO'd you to find your case (or response to my post apparently...).

I. My early slight gut scum read on you

A. You said there was no evidence for my read.

It was a general feel kind of thing.

Instead of asking what prompted it, you choose to attack it.
B. You claim there is no evidence of you looking obvtown before. False. We have played exactly one game together. Artemis Fowl Mafia. I thought you looked obvtown. If you wish to dispute that, go to that game, ISO me, and show me where I am wrong. Granted, I was scum there. But I didn't lie when I called your play town there. The only time I called you scum was in LYLO when I ran out of options.
C. I see I touched on this on B. You claim that because I was scum in Artemis Fowl mafia, my view was biased and I didn't need to pay attention. False. Because I was scum, I already knew your alignment and could better grasp your town play. I wasn't wavering on what your alignment could be. I already knew therefore I got a good feel for your town play. I get the same effect when I mod. It's like the ultimate meta. Also, I've always said scum need to pay MORE attention than town to have a truly successful game.
D. More Artemis Fowl meta. You have an issue with me leaving you alive and calling you obvtown. People didn't seem to share my read. I'm not sure why. You genuinely looked obvtown to me though. And you were never lynched so...
E. You claim you've never been called obvtown as town. While I may not have used the phrase "obvtown", it should be obvious in my ISO that I saw you that way.

First off, I don't have to go prove something that you claim to be true. If you don't provide the proof, it doesn't exist.

Let's take for example when you mod a game and you know who the scum are. How easy is it to catch the scummy things that scum-players do? It's super easy to say "wow, that was scummy he is so obv-scum". Compared to being a player, its not so cut and dry. Of course my posts were obv-town to you because I was town! Part of being scum is you have to play with the flow of the town, so not lying about me being obv-town was just advantageous for you. For example, if people are calling me scum, you might feel like its better to buddy up. Or your scum-buddy might be riding me hard, so you don't want to be caught right along-side him and choose to call me obv-scum. In this case I was pushing a policy-lynch on your lurking scum-buddy so you attacking me in that case would have been incriminating. I'm not saying you lied, I am saying that you had other motives in mind when playing.

You can say you thought I was obv-town all you want, but the fact remains because you had information others didn't you had a bias.

Also, how many of you as scum leave the obv-town players alive?

What I am saying here is you are spinning a ball of yarn about my "obv-town" meta. You are attempting to make a meta case against me without taking the time to actually do it right and its scummy.

Prohawk, so mollie is scum for having a scum read on human? Also why would being scum make you forget who you are voting?

Did I say Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? Did I imply that I thought Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? I thought I was pretty clear on why I thought Mollie was scum... Please explain why you came to that conclusion.

Being scum doesn't make you forget anything, and actually if you are a decent scum-player it may even make you more hyper-aware. My point is it felt like a charade to me. This is what is scummy. Being fake, specifically in this case, so later on you can use your earlier "mistakes" as a way to get people to look the other way at other things later-on down the road.

II. Your Mollie read as it relates to her Human read

A. You ask if you said this. It was strongly implied:

Pirate Molly on the other hand is content to pop in every once in a while to stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction.

"Stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction" is just a nasty way to say "has a scum read on Human".

I guess that's it. Also, while I'm on Prohawk...

VOTE: McQueen

Freaking liability keeping this fearless scum-around. Disguises himself as a dumb-townie.

Kill it with fire. Slimer, this is a good lynch to get rid of your competition.

^Clearly trying to capitalize on Human's vote and the reaction that mcqueen's play typically gets.

Vote Prohawk

You're completely off base on this one. But its really because you failed to read the post where I

specifically

outlined my case on Mollie. Instead you take fragments of things I have said and try to interpret them for yourself.

Pirate Molly on the other hand is content to pop in every once in a while to stir the pot of sludge in HD's direction.

^This is evidence for my Point B on why Mollie is scum.

B) She is making jabs into the argument, without directly engaging in it.

So no, it doesn't imply that I thought Mollie was scum for having a scum-read on HD in the least. What it is implying is that she was attacking him. Only you inferred as to the reason of the attack.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: KMD

[Kmd4390]

I don't want to do walls back and forth so I'm gonna do a quick response and you can let me know if I missed anything.

If being scum makes all townies obvtown, why did I not see robo or absta as obvtown in that game? Because they didn't play an obvtown game. You did. There's a difference in play. Townies do scummy things. It happens. I didn't get that from your play in our last game, and believe me when I say I was looking for it lol.

Also, it's hillarious how you say I'm blowing up an obvtown meta for you. My comment was kind of a quick thing I made note of and you freaked out. Anything I've said since is purely reactive.

On the mollie thing, town players generally attack who they think is scum. Obviously, we didn't know mollie was town at the time. But now that we do, it's safe to say that's what she was doing. I don't see where your issue was on that.

Your vote is without a case by the way. Your posts have been defenses to my points against you. Do you have reasons for believing I am scum or is it (as much as I hate the buzzword) just OMGUS?

[N]

Vote Count 3.04

Mitillos

( 2 ) CF Riot , Jalyn

kmd4390

( 1 ) ProHawk

ProHawk

( 3 ) mcqueen , kmd4390 , Human Destroyer

mcqueen

( 1 ) zabriel

theslimer3

( 0 )

zabriel

( 0 )

CF Riot

( 0 )

Jalyn

( 0 )

Human Destroyer

( 0 )

Not voting:

theslimer3 , Mitillos

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-03-14 22:03:47)

[ProHawk]

Umm, you clearly don't have a problem with what McQueen did during the last game day and instead use it to vote me for "capitalizing".

You tried to set me up D1. You still aren't showing what I did D1 that was obv-town vs what I have done in this game that isn't.

Still going over the past days, but I will let you know if I find anything else.

[zabriel]

UNVOTE: McQueen
VOTE: KMD

KMD's vote looks opportunistic and Prohawk is making a good case.

[Kmd4390]

Prohawk, mcqueen hammered a player I thought was scum. That and "VI play" is the case against mcqueen. It's an easy case for scum to use to add fuel to the fire, but I don't see where it's anything that comes from a scum mindset.

I'm not gonna go dig up quotes from Artemis Fowl Mafia. There's no point. I got a vibe from your posts there that I'm not sure I can show or describe in detail. I didn't get that here. It was a minor point and I decided to share that I felt that way. Then you blew it up and starting actually looking scummy.

--------

Zab, opportunistic would be jumping on mcqueen the way you did. Also, where's prohawk's case? All I. See is his responses to my case on him and a vote.

[ProHawk]

Case is in #1379.

Hammering a player that you think is scum is different than speed-hammering a player literally three days into the beginning of the day before Jalyn even makes a post. Top that off with hammering a player who was going to be replaced. Anyone who doesn't want to kill that anti-town play is a fool. Town or Scum.

[Mitillos]

@Pro: Is foolishness scummy?

[ProHawk]

Foolishness? No.

Depriving us of information? Yes.

Speed lynching town? Yes.

[CF Riot]

Anyone who doesn't want to kill that anti-town play is a fool. Town or Scum.

lol, I don't even think you believe this. Anyone who wants to lynch townies just because they're bad at the game is a fool. A fool or scum.

[ProHawk]

Do you see me wanting to lynch McQueen at the moment? Try looking at my post in context.

[CF Riot]

Don't even start ProHawk. This is the same thing I've been saying since daystart when you said, "If he's town, he's a liability so we should lynch him anyways." I said if you can show me why you think he's scummy I'll listen and instead of doing that you spent 3 or 4 posts telling me why policy lynching a VI is an okay thing to do, and that's what you're still doing now.

[mcqueen]

hi

[Kmd4390]

Prohawk, so your case is that I have a town read on mcqueen and a scum read on you?

I feel like you don't actually care what mcqueen's alignment is. Day 3 with no scum dead is no time for that kind of a lynch. Hell, that's a great lynch for scum to push if mcqueen is town. Every dead townie brings them closer to the win. if you are truly town, you should be trying to lynch scum, not just players whose playstyle you disagree with. Reading your posts even makes me forget for a second that CF already cleared mcqueen. Why the hell are you talking about "killing that anti town play" on a player who has been cleared by a cop? How can you criticize a town read on someone who we now know if town (unless CF is seriously gambiting by "clearing" his buddy which I doubt)?

Seriously bitching about mcqueen's play is pointless because he is 100% off the table for a lynch at any time unless CF flips scum. Bitching about my lack of bitching about mcqueen is even more pointless.

[ProHawk]

Great. Then lynch me and lose. Or win in your case.

[mcqueen]

Great. Then lynch me and lose. Or win in your case.

ok

[N]

Vote Count 3.05

Mitillos

( 2 ) CF Riot , Jalyn

kmd4390

( 2 ) ProHawk , zabriel

ProHawk

( 3 ) mcqueen , kmd4390 , Human Destroyer

mcqueen

( 0 )

theslimer3

( 0 )

zabriel

( 0 )

CF Riot

( 0 )

Jalyn

( 0 )

Human Destroyer

( 0 )

Not voting:

theslimer3 , Mitillos

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-03-14 22:03:47)

Jalyn is V/LA until 5th of Mar

[Human Destroyer]

I think I'm going to give the votecounts in this game some pretty colors tomorrow.

Fun, yes?

[CF Riot]

Please don't.

Zab vote Mit with me.

[Kmd4390]

Please do. But don't color any living players based on reads/self/etc.

[N]

Cheery Dog replaces theslimer3.

zabriel has been prodded.

[N]

Mitillos has been prodded.

[Mitillos]

Ow.

Hawk seems town. I'm not 100% sold on his kmd case, but I will sheep it, if nothing better presents itself.
CF wants me dead, but he's most likely town. Jalyn is also on the wagon, without good reasons. Could be scum.
I have no idea about anyone else...

[Cheery Dog]

blah blah some reasoning.

also hi.

I assume based on claims that mcqueen can only be on a scumteam with Riot, and I don't see that as something they'd do, so either they're both town or Riot is scum wanting mcqueen kept alive anywa, I'll consider them both town.

Now based on that and my own alighment, I have a 50% chance of hitting scum by voting somewhere else.

maybe I should read more information that just vague reads ins from before I joined. but I really don't feel like it.
Out of everyone not mentioned above, who wants voted?