Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[Wisdom]

Okay, try reading the game then because in the last few pages I discussed this thing in detail with HD. There's no lying there. The only one who keeps misrepping is you.

[N]

Vote Count 1.11

Disturbed_One

( 0 )

Mitillos

( 0 )

kmd4390

( 0 )

Siveure DtTrikyp

( 3 ) BeautyAndTheBeast , zabriel , kmd4390

ProHawk

( 0 )

mcqueen

(replaces fuzzybutternut)

( 3 ) Siveure DtTrikyp , mcqueen , Wisdom

theslimer3

( 0 )

BeautyAndTheBeast

(pirate mollie)

( 0 )

Wisdom

( 3 ) Human Destroyer , ProHawk , Disturbed_One 

zabriel

( 0 )

CF Riot

(tigerzone)

( 1 ) The Puck

The Puck

( 0 )

Human Destroyer

( 1 ) Mitillos

Not voting:

CF Riot , theslimer3

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-02-28 20:30:20)

zabriel is V/LA until 28th of Feb

[Disturbed_One]

Okay, try reading the game then because in the last few pages I discussed this thing in detail with HD. There's no lying there. The only one who keeps misrepping is you.

I haven't misrepresented you once. That's a baseless claim and it will get you nowhere.

[CF Riot]

I really don't even care a little bit whether either of Wisdom/D_O misrepped the other or not. Just to put things in perspective. It's not like "misrep = conf scum" has ever been a thing.

[Wisdom]

CF, are you gonna vote anyone?

[CF Riot]

Oh yeah and I wanted to add claiming unreadable as a reason to policy lynch someone is bullshit. Sometimes I wanna lynch lurkers and that's sort of related but not really. D_O I hope you're not still seriously entertaining that idea wrt Mollie.

pedit: Idk. Thinking about it.

[Disturbed_One]

Oh yeah and I wanted to add claiming unreadable as a reason to policy lynch someone is bullshit. Sometimes I wanna lynch lurkers and that's sort of related but not really. D_O I hope you're not still seriously entertaining that idea wrt Mollie.

pedit: Idk. Thinking about it.

Was for it, but now that the slot is a hydra it's not really viable. Even if it weren't a hydra, all I asked for was some meta and zabriel delivered that.

Once again, "unreadable" was poorly phrased on my part. What I meant was that I read Mollie's actions as anti-town, but her actions are consistently anti-town, regardless of alignment. Therefore, I felt that she would be able to disguise her alignment.

[CF Riot]

So who else is scum besides Wisdom?

[Disturbed_One]

So who else is scum besides Wisdom?

I don't have any reads as strong as the Wisdom one. But fuzzybutternut or mcqueen are good bets.

[mcqueen]

Did this guy really just say Wisdom and I are Scum. LOL, you're kidding right? You've just past me in the Stupidest Person in this Game rankings. Good job.

[Disturbed_One]

Did this guy really just say Wisdom and I are Scum. LOL, you're kidding right? You've just past me in the Stupidest Person in this Game rankings. Good job.

The way I see it, it's either you or fuzzy. Responses like this aren't helping your case, by the way.

[Human Destroyer]

He's fuzzy's replacement though

[mcqueen]

He's fuzzy's replacement though

Exactly, another reason he's stupid.

[mcqueen]

come on bro vote me i need to get lyncheeeeeeeeed

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

[Disturbed_One]

He's fuzzy's replacement though

*facepalm*

I forgot fuzzy replaced. So many players have replaced I've kind of lost track.

[Disturbed_One]

Will not make that mistake again. My apologies. Between the huge growth of posts in this game and the frequent replacements, I lost track.

[zabriel]

Maybe that just means McQueen is that much more conf-scum. Sadly, that's not the worst derp I've ever seen.

[Wisdom]

So, can we have more votes on mcqueen?

[CF Riot]

Well tell me why FuzzyMcQueen is scummy then, cause I have him in the townpile right now too.

pedit: This is directed at D_O. I'd rather him answer, or maybe Siv but I doubt that will happen.

[theslimer3]

Did this guy really just say Wisdom and I are Scum. LOL, you're kidding right? You've just past me in the Stupidest Person in this Game rankings. Good job.

I still hold the title as the most, right?

[Wisdom]

Nah this guy outranked you by a lot, slimer

[ProHawk]

Sorry for my hiatus. One topic that keeps popping up this game that is bothering me a little bit, and it comes up quite frequently in games on M_S, is all of this talk about meta. Not ever have I seen a decent meta case that has been shown to have a correlational relationship with the alignment of a player. For those of you using meta heavily to base your arguments off of: I would like you to point me in the direction of evidence where meta was a successful determinant of a players alignment.

My take

: Meta is a weak determinant of alignment and is way too often used as a crutch to scum-hunting. I would love to have someone prove me wrong though...

So catching up, I tried to look at it with an eye of Wisdom being town, but things just kept popping out at me that I couldn't seem to ignore and further confirmed my vote.

Indeed, and

that's what I am going to do if he continues his bullshit

. I only don't do it because I am not sure if he's just tunneling like you or if he's actually scum. Usually town tunnels on me, so I am reluctant to draw conclusions so easily.

1) Why wait to vote for someone who you think is scum? (I realize he answered it in his next sentence)

It looked to me like he is avoiding an OMGUS accusation by withholding his vote. It tells me he is definitely concerned with how he is viewed in the group, which isn't necessarily a scum-tell in itself. However, its how he reacts to being accused of placing an OMGUS vote is what ping's me as scum. D_O makes a comment about his vote being an OMGUS, and without any refutation, Wisdom sarcastically brushes it off as something scum would say.

2) His response to question #1 seems off to me in an illogical sort of way. (This is why I saw an ulterior motive in his lack of action)

Wisdom, what makes you as a player attract town-only tunnelers as opposed to scum-tunnelers? Do you believe that only town will tunnel players in general? Or is it only when they tunnel you? From that post #491, D_O did continue his "bullshit" and you waited 48 posts to place a vote after testing the waters with Mcqueen. What took you so long to build-up the courage?

I only have to say that if your gut says "D_O must be town because Wisdom must be scum", you'll be probably wrong about both. That's why I asked you to read our exchange but apparently you didn't do it with an unbiased mind.

Here is another post that is off from what Wisdom had originally coined as his thought process. Here is an example of Wisdom arguing that using your gut to get alignments off of players based on who they are pushing, is probably wrong.

I have already commented on why I called Mollie town there - I felt HD was scum trying to push her lynch and mine - which would make both of us town. Other than that, I don't have a townread on mollie.

Yet, here much earlier on, he uses his gut-read of HD being scum giving him the ability to say Mollie is town in his case against HD.

RE: KMD

The last time I played with prohawk, he looked obvtown (although some people disagreed). He doesn't look that way here.

This is a pretty scummy setup post, IMO. No reasoning as to why I don't look obvtown, no evidence to how I looked obvtown, just a setup for some future case that will come down the line. The thing that struck me as odd is the last time we played together, KMD was scum, so his eye on my play was biased, he didn't need to look closely at my "obvtown" play. Oddity #2, do scum often leave the obv-town players alive? He left me alive to LYLO. Oddity #3, I have never had anyone tell me that I have ever looked obv-town as town. In fact, I have been mis-lynched D1 twice, and have rarely been night-killed.

Prohawk, so mollie is scum for having a scum read on human? Also why would being scum make you forget who you are voting?

Did I say Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? Did I imply that I thought Mollie is scum for having a scum-read on Human Destroyer? I thought I was pretty clear on why I thought Mollie was scum... Please explain why you came to that conclusion.

Being scum doesn't make you forget anything, and actually if you are a decent scum-player it may even make you more hyper-aware. My point is it felt like a charade to me. This is what is scummy. Being fake, specifically in this case, so later on you can use your earlier "mistakes" as a way to get people to look the other way at other things later-on down the road.

RE: McQueen.

I don't see what he is doing as scum-motivated, especially on the first-day without having been under a whole-lot of pressure. His posts, where he isn't sarcastic and acting dumb, suggest to me he has a deeper thought process.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, what makes you as a player attract town-only tunnelers as opposed to scum-tunnelers? Do you believe that only town will tunnel players in general? Or is it only when they tunnel you? From that post #491, D_O did continue his "bullshit" and you waited 48 posts to place a vote after testing the waters with Mcqueen. What took you so long to build-up the courage?

It's just an observation from my completed games - usually I tunnel on town and town tunnels on me. Sure, scum will also tunnel on me on occasion. But usually it's town that does. As for voting D_O, I was pretty hesitant exactly because of that - I was finding hard to understand that scum press on such bad accusations and insist on their misreps so much. It's like the logical fallacy that says "too scummy to be scum" - although a fallacy, sometimes there are things that are hard to see coming from scum. But I don't know, tunneling has its limits, and the more it continues I am starting to see him as scum.

Here is another post that is off from what Wisdom had originally coined as his thought process. Here is an example of Wisdom arguing that using your gut to get alignments off of players based on who they are pushing, is probably wrong.
Yet, here much earlier on, he uses his gut-read of HD being scum giving him the ability to say Mollie is town in his case against HD.

That was an one-off comment I made at the time - I don't support mollie is town because of that. I don't even support mollie is town.

[Wisdom]

to believe*, not to understand

[ProHawk]

At which post did you change your mind about voting D_O?