Diffusion of Power (Open 478) over

[pirate mollie]

/confirm

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: prohawk

this is a serious vote, lol

cue for wisdom to trolleytrack on me all game

in other news I just recently learned that N is a guy, I thought he was a girl all of this time and made up this sisterly love bonding in my head for like months now so I will probably be trolling him cos he can't ignore my posts. it will be like a car accident that he can't resist rubbernecking and it will probably be the best central park game ever.

[pirate mollie]

hey wisdom do you want to lynch hd? cos I am thinking I do!

[pirate mollie]

stop it about ongoing games

don't make N do something, it is hard for him

liking wisdom for town

fuzzy jesus christ can you possibly look any scummier, but I happen to know that you can

I am good for my hd vote for now

[pirate mollie]

Generally when you say a vote is good

You make the vote

who is my vote on remind me

[pirate mollie]

you are actually active and showing up on my radar am I in alternate universe or something zab?

[pirate mollie]

oh god you really are scum this game aren't you

[pirate mollie]

jesus christ

wtf is going on here

I have zabriel and wisdom for town.

pj I like your push on me, will you at least pause for a second and consider staying in the game

[pirate mollie]

oh and I have a town read on slimer I think!

[pirate mollie]

I don't agree either and do I really have to give the talk where we have to deal all sorts of people in this world and that tolerance goes a long way in learning how to avoid human suffering

for the record I cannot stand players who prefer style over substance they are usually shitty players who think they are better than they actually are. you know who taught me this? a criminal defense attorney who once I started to listen to him I realised that he is often right on social justice issues.

oh and disturbed one since my goal is to subtly troll N cos I lurve him this is what he had to say about me:

Why are you always so contrary?

"that's just how she is, not sure you'll get much else out of her"

You should tell whoever wrote that to shut the fuck up.

N wrote it. [img]ttp://talkrational.org/images/smilies/hehe.gif

I so want to sig it and then stalk N and then sign up for all the games she is in.

fake eta: wisdom gets me [img]ttp://talkrational.org/images/smilies/hug.gif[/img]

also prohawk it is not like you to policy lynch, what gives.

[pirate mollie]

why are smilies not working, I see the one with the broken tag but my poast loses its effect without them

[pirate mollie]

I don't agree either and do I really have to give the talk where we have to deal all sorts of people in this world and that tolerance goes a long way in learning how to avoid human suffering

This is not an issue about tolerance. This is not an issue about whether or not swearing should be allowed. This is an issue of a player who politely requested to calm the language down, and in tiger's subsequent post he specifically told that player to f*** off. This is an absolute of lack of respect, lack of tolerance, and complete indecency on account of tiger.

Its apparent that tiger is here to be a troll. There is absolutely no place for this, if the mod isn't going to do something about it, its the job of the players to stand up and destroy this meta before it spreads like a plague. If you want to allow bullies and trolls take over the game, then don't vote for tiger. People like this take the fun out of the game, and drive players away. He needs to go.

you were fine with shrimp guy accusing me of cheating and adam's bullying to the point I subbed out. in fucking tears. no lie.

ftr I agree with what you have to say about tiger in a way. and ftr I do try to tone it down when asked. but if you want to address the issue of trolling disturbed one is tone trolling but in my mind that makes him look more townish. I think the issue with petro could have been handled without so much flounce.

I have been looking forward to playing with you prohawk cos you interest me. I am not trying to offend you, here.

do you see wisdom's wking of tiger opportunistic? cos I am truthfully unsure. I have played with wisdom before and he is incredibly stubborn as town, I don't have a baseline for his scum game.

[pirate mollie]

Anyone who wants to PL tiger for wanting to PL zab is being a hypocrite.
Also, although his constant impoliteness is annoying, it's very much not a scumtell.
The defensiveness and OMGUS points, brought up by Disturbed are valid, but not enough, in my opinion.
I am opposed to any policy lynches and I don't see enough of a case on tiger to assume that the wagon on him is more than PL.
Having said that, @tiger: For crying out loud, man. There is no need to be so abrasive. Mafia is a cooperation game; being polite helps with that. If you're town, could you try toning it down?

@mollie: You missed the 'h' in 'http' in both your smileys, as well as messing up the tags in one. Also, who is scum, why, and why aren't you voting them?

hd and fuzzy stand out to me the most. I have mislynched fuzzy before so I am hesitant to go that route and hd I need more from to firm up my read.

[pirate mollie]

Absolutely not. I will stand up for petroliumjelly based on principle alone.

petro is no longer in the game so you standing up for him is wasted.

I will vote for tiger the entire game if he isn't lynched today

. If N has replacements lined up, I will replace out of the game so I don't ruin town's chances at winning. I have yet to ask for replacement so as to not be a burden on the administrative tasks of this game.

seriously don't go down this road if you are town, I have seen players do this before and it burns up their meta. they wind up getting lynched and players resent them when they lose.

and ftr I do not want you to replace out, I really would like to play a game with you.

P-EDIT: I never was fine with shrimp accusing you of cheating, and Adam's bullying was not over the top, at least I didn't see it that way. Wisdom has been defending everyone, so I don't find it uncharacteristic that he takes the devils advocate role often.

adam was pretty bad, just cos he did not call me names or use curse words does not make the invective somehow less. that is my point about style over substance. he honestly blamed me for subbing out after fucking days of misrep and subtle vitriol.

you are hugely missing my point here

and thanks mittoast! I should probably go back to proofreading my posts

[pirate mollie]

hhhhmmmm.....

[pirate mollie]

Your case on me still sucks, my wagon is shitty, and everyone currently on it should get the fuck off

THE CASES OF MY WAGON:

tigerzone - OMGUS
Wisdom - tigerzone is an "easy lynch", so my pushing of him is scummy.
fuzzy - Stating a town read based on one post is scummy.

Tell me where my super devious scum motivation for doing things is, and maybe I'll come back and write up a wall proving why you're wrong

Right now we should be lynching mollie and Wisdom, so the fact that we aren't doing it is bad

P-Edit: @Mitillos I got stronger scumreads from mollie and Wisdom. I also might have been tunneling...a little...

let me explain something to you hd, something you should already know

I will move my vote when I am freaking good and ready and not a moment before which tbh I am pretty sure this has come up in at least 1 game that we have been in. I am not trying to be sticky with my vote but prohawk's policy lynch does give me pause cos it does not seem like him to compromise his team in order to get rid of anti-town play but in some ways it fits in with his whole boyscout meta and I am questioning him and pushing on him in order to get a stronger grasp of the nuances of his thought processes in order to shake out a stronger read. and to shake out scum.

that you are missing this is epic fail on your part

if this has come up in any games we have played together and you are deliberately misconstruing this shit then you are toast. I am going to look at the cult game we played in.

wisdom is a meta player who

actually does his research

even though he can be wrong sometimes and the game that fuzzy and I were in, scum came at me with the exact same dumb argument you are providing now.

[pirate mollie]

No

Burden of proof is on you

You need to show me where

specifically

she does these scummy things as town

fuck this shit

VOTE: hd

[pirate mollie]

it isn't like your a alien to my play. both wisdom and fuzzy have been less exposed to my meta than you not to mention prohawk

^@ hd

[pirate mollie]

Yes.

I'm pretty sure she's going to flip scum though so it won't matter


P-Edit: ProHawk's case is actually very good. Your whole meta case without any attempt at proving it is inherently bullshit

because the things mollie's doing are legitimate scum tells

.

list the scumtells

the ones you provided earlier are bs cos they are not alignment based they player style based. hth

maybe you should try to figure out wtf scumtells actually are before tossing that term around haphazardly.

[pirate mollie]

MY FUCKING GOD YOU AREN'T LISTENING

I DIDN'T MAKE A CLAIM, THEREFORE I HAVE NO REASON TO GO PROVE IT FOR YOU. YOU MADE A CLAIM, SO YOU HAVE EVERY FUCKING REASON TO GO PROVE IT.

SO STOP BEING ALL SELF-RIGHTEOUS WITH YOUR "OMG ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LOOK THROUGH THE GAMES I LINKED MUST BE SCUM" BECAUSE GUESS WHAT: I DON'T REALLY FUCKING CARE.

MOLLIE HAS BEEN ACTING GODDAMN SCUMMY, AND YOU'VE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO DISINTEGRATE IT WITH BULLSHIT META TELLS THAT MAY NOT EVEN BE REAL.

THIS IS A WHOLE CROCK OF BULLSHIT BEING USED BY THE SCUMTEAM TO PAINT ME AS SCUMMY.

AND QUITE FRANKLY, I'M DONE WITH IT.

b) I am pretty sure you are making the claim that I am scummy

and when other players are saying that this is normal play for me you are still pushing your dumb read on me anyways

its like you have never met me before in your life when we have been in the same games together

and you can do the research on my other games if you have any doubts

I move my votes when I want to and not cos of external pressure by dumbtown/scum wants me too

[pirate mollie]

also, ftr:

-Avoiding major arguments between town (assuming it was town v. town) is scummy because it's a way to keep attention away from you.
-If it actually was a town v. town argument, stoking the fires distracts people from your scumminess.
-Hesitance in voting because you aren't sure how it will make you look and you want to think about it from a tactical angle; town don't need tactics, they need to find scum.

-no. you are assuming that the 2 players are town which again, no, you should not do. I stayed away cos it was driving to a personal level and it was being taken seriously and I wanted no part of it. tiger missed that petro was being serious which I assign more to an aspie flaw rather than anything else.
-so I avoided the argument but somehow stoked the fires. okay. that makes a fuckload of sense.
-I don't give a shit how I look and it should be fucking apparent by now. that is a weak case you should be embarrassed by pushing it if you are town.

eta: my vote on prohawk was a pressure tool you dummy. he is not seeming right in the head and I am trying to sort him out and you are burying that with your shitposting.

[pirate mollie]

in what way did I "stoke the fires" by supporting a lynch of either tiger or petro? I stayed away from the argument for the reasons I have given, you seriously cannot have it both ways when I clearly "stayed away" from the argument cos of the reasons that I have given.

the most I did was ask petro not to leave cos he felt things got personal.

you are not even making fucking sense.

[pirate mollie]

jesus christ can we plz lynch hd

[pirate mollie]

wisdom since when did you start caring about my opinion

[pirate mollie]

VOTE: wisdom

[pirate mollie]

@ prohawk

erm, what do you mean you find my early play suspect? you were all whiney about tiger, I don't remember you thinking that I was necessarily super suspect.

also

fos

kmd

get your ass in here at stop being so lurkey. you are not getting your hands dirty and that isn't like you

I am still waiting for N to say if majiffy and I can do a hydra it will be awesomely funny cos we rarely agree and we fight like hell

[pirate mollie]

thanks, N, waiting for approval

[pirate mollie]

UNVOTE:

[pirate mollie]

Well, to be fair, your "explanation" was simply putting together a ton of Wisdom's posts and expecting me to come to the same conclusion you did about them.

But yes, I do like what Prohawk has to say on the matter and I agree. I didn't observe this until now (probably because I skimmed through a lot of the banter between yourself and Wisdom), but Wisdom seems to say a lot of things he/she doesn't really mean. That does seem a bit strange to me.

prohawk if I have to witness another game of scum butkissing and you totally buying I am going to

hurt

you

I also personally dislike how he defends more people than he actually accuses, which makes it seem as though he's trying to "buddy up" with as many people as possible, so he has allies if he needs them. Some of his reasoning/explanation for defending players is downright weird, for example, calling Mollie town from a null read.

no, what

you

are doing is buddying up. wisdom is defending players against hd's dumb accusation do you know why? cos they are really dumb.

eta: I have not even read the xposts yet, I have been texting majiffy trying to get our account activated.

I also wanted to directly respond to Wisdom's point in post #365.

Yes, I am. No one said they couldn't read her, but who said they could actually read her? If Mollie plays anti-town every game, then there is no way to prove what her alignment actually is. If she got a scum-role, we'd be none the wiser from her playstyle.

list what I have done that is anti-town, k tia

what hd listed were things he finds scummy...he is wrong and it is funny cos he is somebody who has actually

seen

my scum game. I was recruited in a game we played together. you are calling those same things anti-town. you know what that implies? that you know my alignment. the only people who could know my alignment for sure are scum. and you have been banging on for pages about, "how I am so hard to read" and I should be lynched for it. w.t.f.

That said, I asked a reasonable question which you completely chose to ignore, and seeing as you choose to defend Mollie this means that you are in fact dodging a question that is directed at you. Why did you cut that part of my post out, Wisdom?

My question still stands. If Mollie is scum, then who here knows how to read her? Prove how you're going to figure out what alignment she is, ultimately. If you can't, then she is ultimately a liability.

I'm starting to think Wisdom may in fact be the lynch of the day.

UNVOTE: CF Riot
VOTE: Wisdom

jesus christ I am hydra-ing with majiffy cos shit like this ^^^ makes me lose my temper and I will vote him cos I think he is being an ass although he just dropped that he thinks I am town but he wants to lynch me anyways for shitty reasons and then tries to paint anybody who disagrees with those shitty reasons as scummy.

scumhunting comes down to discerning whether or not a post comes from a town POV and yours reeks DO. so does hd's cos he is basically trying to meta me on meta he has but somehow is managing to ignore.

sorry I got paranoid about you wisdom.

[pirate mollie]

Yeah and I'll repeat, who said that she's "unreadable"? You're misrepping and it's bad.
Do you think that someone can tell the alignment of a player basing only on meta? Let her post more, let actions unfold and we'll be able to read her. I don't understand how she becomes "unreadable" because certain actions of her are null.
I don't understand why you think mollie cannot be read. Have you had a problem with reading her in the past? How is she different than any other player in here? Can I be read? Can you be read? Can slimer be read? Possibly, when we do certain actions and post certain things we might be able to be read. Same goes for mollie. I don't understand why she's different for you.
I didn't defend anyone, I merely pointed out the accusations were invalid. You're still misrepping.

I'm not quoting anyone, just stating my opinion, yet I'm misrepresenting? You're the one who's misrepresenting

me

, nowhere did I say that I thought anyone had said that.
That's not at all my point. My point is exactly the opposite of what you're saying.

My point is that I do not believe Mollie can be read, my "evidence" for this point is that she plays inherently anti-town regardless of her alignment.

You're claiming that you think we can read her based on her actions, I am just asking you to back that up with previous experience. I'm not saying that meta can determine her alignment, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I do

not

think meta can determine her alignment. I do not think observing her actions can determine her alignment, either. And for these reasons, I am saying that I feel she is fair game to lynch. Based on the grounds that we cannot tell if she is town or scum, and therefore that makes her dangerous.

I have never played with Mollie before. Mollie is different from the other players because she plays in a way that is anti-town, regardless of alignment. slimer is also different in this regard. You and I are more likely to play pro-town regardless of our alignment, though we can actually "slip-up" when we post something anti-town. Mollie and slimer cannot, because they are already posting in an anti-town fashion, so therefore it is impossible for them to slip up.

I'm not misrepresenting you, and I have no need to argue with you about this. You

did

defend them, and you're not fooling anyone. Simply stating that I am misrepresenting you does not actually make it so.

jesus christ

list where I have been anti-town

and just cos you can't read me does not count

and if you have never played with me before then how can genuinely discredit other people who say they can?

hey bud, I gave you some pro-tips on how to scum hunt...you read a post and you determine the motivation behind the post. if you use that criteria you cannot say anything that I have done in this game is anti-town

also your fixation is starting to feel a little creepy and weird and/or downright scummy, I just can't tell if it is feigned or not

[pirate mollie]

Calling players dumb does two things:

1. It actually makes you look dumber than the people who are actually making valid points.

those points are not valid when he should have somewhat of a meta-base for them. and no, those are not always legitimate scumtells so let's just shoot that argument out of the water. nor are they anti-town. I am starting to think you have no idea what that means.

2. It illustrates how you don't have a point in the first place, because if you had one, you'd be making it instead of calling other players names.

I am assuming you are referring to this:

cos they are really dumb.

I did not call hd dumb I was calling his argument dumb. but sweet misrep there you should continue this trajectory it will totally score you points. like scum points cos it is a sophisticated form of buddying which you have already applied to prohawk.

I'm glad you agree that Wisdom is defending people, because you know he says that he doesn't. It's a very pro-town thing, to do one thing and say another, right?

Hmm... why aren't you voting Wisdom again?

cos I do not want to

I think HD's arguments were and still are valid. Prove how they aren't, preferably in reasoning that doesn't consist of "because he's dumb."

I never said he was dumb, his arguments are. I already disproved his arguments cos they are not that hard to disprove. what he is listing are not actual across the board scumtells and you know it and I know it so why the "smurf" are you trying to push this agenda? explain the motivation behind it and you may just talk your way out of it.

You are anti-town because nearly all of your posts are void of any content. The content that you do actually post is either impossible to understand or not at all useful. You also do not go very in-depth on your reads, and instead call your scum-reads names, suggesting you don't actually have any reason to suspect them in the first place.

third time I am dispelling that DUMB FREAKING ARGUMENT that I am calling people names. his arguments are dumb. whether or not they are scum motivated is something I am trying to determine.

Interesting... so HD is wrong, and that makes him scum? Seeing as Wisdom was unable to answer this question, maybe you can answer it for me. Show me one of your scum games and illustrate how it is any different from the one you're playing now. HD knows how you play as scum? I don't know how you play as scum, why don't you tell me?

erm...the burden of proof is on you cos you are the one who is trying to say that I am anti-town and is pushing my lynch without saying I am scum. I am not going to feed you. find your own damn data.

I don't know how you made the connection that because I call you "anti-town" that I somehow know your alignment. Frankly, I don't care either, as it's a bunch of malarkey.

cos you are not pushing a scumread you are pushing what you think is an anti-town read. you haven't called me scum this is like mafia 101! \o/

I honestly cannot understand the rest of your post, it's seemingly gibberish. Something about how my play "reeks", once again not for any discernible reason other than the fact you disagree with me.

Case in point, you don't actually have any valuable scum-reads. That's probably because you're not actually scum-hunting.

lol

I responded to your previous post how you are anti-town. I will

not

repeat myself.

oh...sweet. let's have a discussion of redundancy...like...I think we should talk about how you keep pushing the same dumb case that I personally do not think you even believe in anymore. <--------hey guess what, I did not call you dumb here!

The thing is, I'd be comfortable lynching you based on your behavior alone. Your behavior has been "anti-town" in my opinion, and I'd be fine lynching you for it. The only thing that keeps me from voting you this very instant, is the fact you seemingly play this way every single game. I can and

have

read you as anti-town, I would lynch you if not for the fact you always play this way.

you still have yet to list what is "anti-town" about my play except to say that you have trouble comprehending what I am saying. it sounds like a personal problem to me and not indicative of my alignment nor "anti-town" activities.

No one has said they can read you. I've asked for specific examples from your pal, Wisdom, but he has been unable to answer that question other than saying that we'll somehow be able to figure it out from your play. I don't agree, because if you always play in an anti-town fashion, there's no way you can slip-up anymore than you are already doing.

win condition <<< motivation for posts <<< reflects alignment

so far you are pushing bad cases for bad reasons and sucking up to players who may not realise they are being manipulated. SCUUUUUUMMMMEH

Do you play pro-town as scum or something? Unless you do, then there is no way to read you. I have requested you to illustrate how your scum game is different from your town game. Until you do, I am forced to believe there is not a difference.

Actually, I can totally say almost everything you've done in this game is anti-town, using that exact criteria. As I said, the only thing keeping me from voting based on this information, is that it is normal play for you.

Interesting theory. I was previously unaware one could be "fixated" while pursuing another read entirely and voting for that read. I'll be sure to note this for the future, thank you for enlightening me!

yw

ftr it is cos of the reasoning you are using to go after wisdom that I think you are "fixated". like it still centers around me which I find strange. but hey it is okay if you develope a crush on me, I will feel flattered.

[pirate mollie]

zab, who are you even talking to here?

[pirate mollie]

majiffy be nice

[pirate mollie]

town won!

@ wisdom - I like you too