Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[pappums rat]

Votecount 3.3

"In nature there is no such thing as boundless slaughter, there is always an end to it. But you, Snake, are different. The paths you walk on have no end, each step you take is paved with the corpses of your enemies. Their spirits will haunt you forever. You shall have no peace." -Vulcan Raven, Metal Gear Solid

mykonian - 3 (Kise, MagnaofIllusion, AngryPidgeon)
MagnaofIllusion - 3 (mykonian, mastin2, Elscouta)
zabriel - 1 (jasonT1981)
WrathChild - 1 (PeregrineV)
Yates - 1 (Acosmist)
Acosmist - 1 (Yates)

Not voting - zabriel, WrathChild, pidgey, Cheery Dog, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan

Nero Cain, mastin2, and PeregrineV are V/LA.
Kublai Khan is V/LA until Thursday.

Cheery Dog replaces snifit effective immediately. Thanks again Cheery Dog!

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 3 is 9 PM EST on November 30, 2012.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi Cheery!

[mastin2]

OMGUS isn't a scumtell though.

Not once or twice, no.
Consistently and repeatedly, though, it is.

But, in general, people's opinion on the correct play wrt Tammy is not alignment indicative.

Except, it is, because as laid out, leaving Tammy alive-->town, pushing her lynch-->scum. I'm not dropping this. The Tammy lynch was scum-driven, and I'm not going to back down on that, ever.

Shooting him risked her dying as a response.

Again. Possible risk of dieing, versus guaranteed death if refusing. Saying Tammy wouldn't shoot Aco is pretty blatantly false, since she was willing to cooperate with us and had been doing so. She was going to get lynched if she didn't shoot Aco. We explicitly laid this out, with a "no excuses" policy. She couldn't wiggle her way out of that. There was no place she could have shot other than Aco today, because if she did, she'd end up speed-lynched for refusal to cooperate. We laid out a clear shot plan, that if she didn't play ball, she died. If the town wanted her to shoot Aco (we did), she'd shoot Aco or be lynched. Like I said. Possible risk of death versus guaranteed death. Add in her overall town mindset in the game, and she'd take the shot guaranteed.

This is why I'm not dropping it. Because these arguments were laid out crystal clear yesterday and ignored. She literally had NO CHOICE. To say she did is a flat-out lie.

Spoiler: Setup

So that is the kind of synergy you put in your Mini Normal right ... a Miller / Roleblocker/ Doctor. Oh that's right ... no synergy there at all. In fact just ways for all three roles to be disbelieved.

The whole idea of that game, though, was to break expectations. I specifically made that setup to mess with the typical expectations of Miller/Cop/Roleblocker/Doctor, in that typically, you expect either the roleblocker or the miller to be the scum there. (Though at the time the setup was made, far fewer miller-claims were doubted than in current site meta, since scum fakeclaiming miller was less common at the time.)
However, even with that in mind, the setup still synched well--the roleblocker and doctor working together could have (and almost did!) trapped the scum. By shutting down their ability to get a kill through, it'd give the town more days to get a lynch, AND force the mafia cop to give more results. And if the miller were considered town (they weren't, thanks to a normally-quite-good player being apathetic), then that'd further hinder the scum's efforts.

The synch was there, it's just that it wasn't utilized. From the perspective of a moderator, the setup worked well. It was slightly more swingy than preferred, but was still balanced. Yes, from the perspective of a player, the roles didn't augment each other, yes, from the perspective of a player, the roles were detrimental to each other, but from the perspective of a moderator, they worked well.

And from the perspective of a moderator, a messenger, a neighbor, and a cop working well makes a whole HECK of a lot more sense than a scum-messenger and/or scum-neighborizer working against a cop. Keep in mind also that a scum-messenger is a fairly useless role: why would they send a message to anyone? It does nothing role-related. It can't even be used to communicate with a scumbuddy, since it's sent at the end of the night, not during the day phase. It's an entirely useless scum role, but an INCREDIBLY strong town role.

Nero's also quite town this game, and furthermore, the neighborizer makes sense as town. It augments the town messenger, giving the town the chances to coordinate away from the eyes of scum. Rather than posting just during the day, town members in the neighborhood can coordinate secretly during the night, with the messenger being the extent of that.

It makes no sense from a moderation perspective to make those roles opposite one another, and it also makes no sense from a playing perspective. The messenger is town; I can guarantee that. And Nero's the neighborizer; he's also town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Zab

– Ok, continuing to ignore questions puts you on the “Assumed scum since he will not explain why he is posting scummily” list. Hope you enjoy it!

--

If people care about my meta, all my games are on my wiki page. I'm not an alt and I have no alt.

"Hey look! I’m following along closely enough to pop in to say “My meta is free to review” when MoI posts a question to mykonian about his meta with me but I’m not going to actually say why I called mykonian an easy lynch.

Nope. I’m just going to continue to active lurk like good scum!"

--

Was it?

Yup.

Already done in post 2400.

Well no. Not a single thing in that post shows Acosmist back-tracking that he could not PGO a Daykiller. None of what you quoted (Post 10, Post 1542, or Post 2375 say anything of the sort in what you quote. I looked at the original posts you linked to and nothing there either.

So … is this another one of those cases where you are going to go “Oops, wrong facts” and backpedal?

--

1. I don't know him. Pretty sure I have never played with him.
2. it is when you compare it to the scumgames. Further, I'm sure there are more games. It's something that has been with me from 2008 Micro 65 is the most extreme example obviously, but it's a clear case. I step out to make a case, to get things moving, and it makes me a target. If people want a quick read to confirm it, that would work.
3. That yesterday was dominated by another discussion. Without that, the wagon would have seen 3 or 4 votes (depending on kise).

1. So from you standpoint he had no reason to say that and you popping in to make sure you got your two cents in before he explained is just coincidence, huh?
2. Oh really? (insert Owl pic here) …

Mini Normal 1376 shows you getting lynched Day 3. Game ended Day 5 with the lynch of your last partner.

Micro 8 shows you endgaming Town on Day 2.

Team Mafia shows you losing on Day 5 with your lynch.

Not sure how these results show a marked difference between your Town meta. You were lynched in 2/3rds of these games and only endgamed in a Micro. So I think you getting suspicion isn’t a function of your alignment.

I fully acknowledge that this is a small sample size. I’m not making a full statistical analysis of all your games here. I’m just highlighting that your professed self-meta is meh and you should be lynched because you are scummy.

3. Lulz. Nope.jpg. If you were really the Townie making the plays and getting reactions you would drawn heat before I replaced in regardless of the topic at hand in my opinion.

[Elscouta]

"Hey look! I’m following along closely enough to pop in to say “My meta is free to review” when MoI posts a question to mykonian about his meta with me but I’m not going to actually say why I called mykonian an easy lynch.

Nope. I’m just going to continue to active lurk like good scum!"

Let me state a last time my position on you, MoI. You are on my soft-ignore list. This is the last time i adress directly a part of one of your post.

I don't intend to lurk, just to ignore your bullshit.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Mastin: Mykonian is more scummy for encouraging Tammy to shoot Benmage. Confirm/Deny?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Saying Tammy wouldn't shoot Aco is pretty blatantly false, since she was willing to cooperate with us and had been doing so.

No, saying Tammy would actually shoot Acosmist is stupid since Tammy’s not a moron and getting herself shot in response to blowing him up is instan-loss. Which is playing against her wincon. She would have took her chances dodging the noose. End of story.

Spoiler: Set-up stuff

The whole idea of that game, though, was to break expectations. I specifically made that setup to mess with the typical expectations of Miller/Cop/Roleblocker/Doctor, in that typically, you expect either the roleblocker or the miller to be the scum there. (Though at the time the setup was made, far fewer miller-claims were doubted than in current site meta, since scum fakeclaiming miller was less common at the time.)

However, even with that in mind, the setup still synched well--the roleblocker and doctor working together could have (and almost did!) trapped the scum. By shutting down their ability to get a kill through, it'd give the town more days to get a lynch, AND force the mafia cop to give more results. And if the miller were considered town (they weren't, thanks to a normally-quite-good player being apathetic), then that'd further hinder the scum's efforts.

What you claim is synergy there actually works against Town. As I disbelieved that the Roleblocker blocked the kill since my slot had protected a claimed Cop and no kill had appeared. You may, since it was your pet-setup, think it was well synergized when the fact remains it wasn’t. The Town Power-roles were set-up to block kills but not in a way that augmented each other. Had they done so I would have made the decision to gamble on the Roleblocker protect when it was a close call the other way for me not to. Your set-up synergy works from that lovely "Ivory Tower" armchair perspective which pretty much falls flat on its face in an actual how games work environment. But regardless of your alignment I would expect nothing less from you.

And from the perspective of a moderator, a messenger, a neighbor, and a cop working well makes a whole HECK of a lot more sense than a scum-messenger and/or scum-neighborizer working against a cop. Keep in mind also that a scum-messenger is a fairly useless role: why would they send a message to anyone? It does nothing role-related. It can't even be used to communicate with a scumbuddy, since it's sent at the end of the night, not during the day phase. It's an entirely useless scum role, but an INCREDIBLY strong town role.

And this is why I question if you are just playing stupid for pride’s sake or are scum. Because giving Town a way to anonymously out Cop results makes little sense in a game this size. You clearly don't understand the concept of actual game balance and how breaking strategies make it very difficult to do with estoric combinations like you are suggesting. And saying Scum Messenger / Scum Neighborizor makes a lot less sense is just pure garbage. Again – saying something without proof doesn’t make it true.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let me state a last time my position on you, MoI. You are on my soft-ignore list. This is the last time i adress directly a part of one of your post.

That's what scum like to do when the facts hit them on the chin like a well placed haymaker.

They throw up their hands, cry "It's all bullshit", take their ball, run home, and pray that people buy the AtE of 'frustration' as opposed to noticing they aren't capable of supporting their positions with Townie motivation.

[pappums rat]

@ everyone: due to Thanksgiving, I will not be around to post any VCs until late Thursday night. I will try to get another one up later today, but that will be it until then. Also due to the holiday I will not be handing out any prods until Friday night or Saturday morning if any are needed. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, Elscouta is faking frustration. I do not see town doing what he is doing. And his cog-dis behind wanting MoI v Mastin to happen, refusing to read MoI posts, and calling MoI v Mastin a waste of time is sexy.

VOTE: Elscouta

[Nero Cain]

Thank you mafia for shooting derpy ass Ben!!!!

From Nero and myk I could understand the “Lulz, I’ll just call MoI scum for reaction tests” posts. You I expect better of. Stop being bad.

There was no reaction test, I actually found Zora pretty scummy.

The fact that everyone is forgetting here is that this can confirm our cop.

No. I mean he’s a flipped cop now but I think he easily could have been a mafia rolecop.

Nero if you're around, can you confirm that your action is instant and therefore not blockable?

its instant.

Fffffffffffff bengame died.

Oh look. A "well that sucks" post.

@Nero – since you neighborized the Serial Killer N1 is it fair to say her QT contributions made you think she was Town since you weren’t voting for her despite the Guilty from Ben?

No they didn't but thats not why I wasn't voting and I said as much. I'm simply didn't care. Tammy had to go eventully but I would have liked to see some scummy lurkers dead via bomb.

Nero: Needs to play. V/La and all but i kinda have him as town so yeah.

then buy me a new computer.

[Nero Cain]

@ACO-What is your kill flavor?

Can we PLEASE agree on a good scum wagon? Zabriel? Elscouta?

so MYK isn't scum?

mykonian - 3 (Kise, MagnaofIllusion,

AngryPidgeon

)

So why are you on this wagon AP?

[Nero Cain]

Also, Am I the only one that thinks Luna Lovegood sounds like a pornstars name?

[AngryPidgeon]

@ACO-What is your kill flavor?

Can we PLEASE agree on a good scum wagon? Zabriel? Elscouta?

so MYK isn't scum?

mykonian - 3 (Kise, MagnaofIllusion,

AngryPidgeon

)

So why are you on this wagon AP?

:/

Obviously Mykonian is a good vote. I've been pushing that wagon all Day and no one was biting. Im trying to get Acosmist/Yates/Mastin to stop being dumb (or in Mastin's case possibly scum) and agree on a good lynch. Mykonian SHOULD happen, but I don't think it has enough support. Ask me how my Elscouta compromise wagon is going.

What are your top 3 picks for scum?

[Cheery Dog]

I think I might need to go read some more pages, I'm not sure who I want to.be siding with after just reading the last 4.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think I might need to go read some more pages, I'm not sure who I want to.be siding with after just reading the last 4.

This post is scummy. Which of course means you are town, because I always think you are scummy and you never are >.>

But why are you thinking about who to side with and not who to vote for?

[Cheery Dog]

I think I might need to go read some more pages, I'm not sure who I want to.be siding with after just reading the last 4.

This post is scummy. Which of course means you are town, because I always think you are scummy and you never are >.>

But why are you thinking about who to side with and not who to vote for?

Because there haven't been any posts in what I just read which at first glance tell me this poster is scum, therefore I'm going to side with someone and sheep their wagon.just need to work out which of the obvtown posts make the best sense.

[Acosmist]

@ACO-What is your kill flavor?

Do you have any reason to assume the person who targets you wouldn't die immediately?

I'm not sure they would die immediately. I'm not sure they wouldn't.

In any case since you have claimed this much would you mind giving your flavour.

I am a FOXDIE carrier.

[Yates]

Was it?

Yup.

Okay, my bad. Oh wait:

Yates: a problem with that theory is that it did take Tammy a long-ass time to give us a name. I feel like if she's been given a guarantee it'd have come out earlier.

Not a single thing in that post shows Acosmist back-tracking

I disagree. In post 10 - which you claim to have read - his exact quote is:

I am a paranoid gun owner.

That is a fact and is not open to interpretation.
Then he later says:

I'm not a PGO. I said that explicitly.

Did he say he was a PGO or that he was NOT a PGO explicitly? You tell me.

This is why I said you need to look at the actual context. What caused Acosmist to change his mind? I will tell you what changed his mind, I said this:

if Ben gets an innocent read tonight, Tammy takes care of Acos without us wasting a lynch.

This HAS to be the play.

Read the next several posts and you will see what I mean. Acosmist tried scaring Tammy out of targeting him today [in that scenario] by saying she would kill herself. I pointed out that the PGO only defends against NIGHT actions. Then there is a long lul. THEN Acosmist accuses me of lying:

Your powers are weak, old man. They are only active at night.

So yeah I'm not playing along anymore.

What was the point of this lie?

Coincidence that Acosmist "thought" of this exactly ONE post after Benmage says this?

Mastin is a fucking retard if he thinks an SK will suicide.

Now that Tammy is dead and this plan isn't in play all of a sudden he's back to:

you just confirmed my PGO claim.

And even though I thought we were done talking about Tammy:

No, saying Tammy would actually shoot Acosmist is stupid since Tammy’s not a moron and getting herself shot in response to blowing him up is instan-loss.

You are wrong. First - Acosmist likely isn't PGO. Second - even if he were PGO I don't think his powers would have affected a day action. Third - proof that he likely isn't a PGO is right in his role claim when he hedges by saying:

my role does not make it clear whether you will die immediately.

In other words, he is saying he is a PGO. He is saying not to target him. Then he's saying if you do target him you "may" not feel his power's might wrath until later in the game as an excuse for you not dying right away. Is that how PGO's work?? I don't think so.

[Yates]

This also cut off the post where Tammy said she WOULD test it even after all this PGO talk. I already linked that for you earlier. You said that link was useless. Guess it isn't.

[Kise]

crap, forgot this game had opened. give me a while to catch up.

So that wasn't you I saw browsing Theme Park the other night, posting in other games? Must have been jasonT1982.

Remember, BC is scum too.

Vote: WrathChild

lol?

The bolded comes from a scum standpoint since I asked him about mykonian before he 'officially' moved me from Null to Scum. So the "my scum read is asking me to do it" didn't apply back when he first dodged.

I didn't catch that the first read but I'm noting it now.

Not caring to argue with MoI anymore - if any town want additionnal explanations, plz say so and i will provide them.

Why are you breaking down? Also, why aren't you providing your own reads instead of trying to support other cases?

@Yates:

Role name is not paranoid gun owner, btw. That's just the effect of it. So anything of the form "Solid Snake wasn't paranoid!" is dumb.

He said this in between those quotes you just put up. My understanding is that Pgo isn't the name of his role but his powers are the same thing as Pgo.

VLA tomorrow until maybe Friday morning

[Acosmist]

I don't want to waste time with more semantic arguments again.

Is it too pedantic to cite this as another lie? <_<

[Kise]

I don't know what that means.

[Elscouta]

Why are you breaking down? Also, why aren't you providing your own reads instead of trying to support other cases?

I'm not sure what you mean by "breaking down". I'm not speaking with MoI anymore because I believe him to be scum, and I think that continuing to argue with him will just drown my initial case on him.

There is already enough names that have been thrown around that i don't see throwing a new one to be productive. Why would I try to find a new case when i'm perfectly happy with lynching MoI and Ascomist? (a bit less mastin now that I agree strongly with him about MoI being scum)

I could also argue that I'm attacking MoI on my own reads, because I didn't agree/understand mastin points at the beginning.

[PeregrineV]

Scum motivation for scum-Mastin to carry on in an attempt to lynch town-MoI when he can focus all his juice on an easier target and just NK MoI. Doctor is obvious non-existent or complete moron.

Why would he have killed MoI last night? Think about it. If scum-Mastin had a chance to kill Cop-Benmage there is no way he is picking MoI over Benmage. Save this argument for another day.

So then I take it this means you have an opinion on mastin and MoI. it's either town and town, or town and scum. Without having to back up your answer yet, which is it?