Kingmaker II-Game Over

[ChannelDelibird]

All hail the king, etc...

Well, random voting seems a bit pointless, so I'll just be content with saying hi.

[ChannelDelibird]

Wow, lots of posts in a short space of time.

First off,

Vote: Cardb0ardb0x

for double standards. So your theory is that both pablito and Glork are scum, but you only vote for one of them, despite making it clear that you're aware you can vote for multiple people? Sure, maybe you're not sure they're both scum - but you should at least put some pressure on them both to test the theory.

Also,

CBB

That's going to get confusing.

[ChannelDelibird]

While I wrote my last post, everyone finally commented on box before I submitted.

I admit that adding that vote to Glork was extremely scummy and that was backpedalling and succumbing to town pressure. I do not think that not voting Glork was especially scummy in the first place as I had been the more visible aggressor in the previous exchanges. But adding Glork after all of that does look scummy.

However, box isn't used to some players' playing styles and FTF mafia does require more urgency and a need to comment immediately rather than later. So I still see that cbox's post 58 seems consistent with his thoughts and does not suggest scummy behavior. The only vote on box that I find scummy so far (aside from MBL...although this is waning) is CDB's. The others seemed to justify their votes enough but CDB went so far to challenge cbox to test his theory. cbox may have had different intentions when he originally voted me. After getting flak for everything, he's forgotten what his original intent was and added the Glork vote.

So

vote: ChannelDelibird

I realize I'm taking a big risk in defending cardb0ardb0x, but at this time, I don't feel he's scummy and this quasi-wagon is very opportunistic.

And bird1111's joke votes - just so wrong and very scummy. Anyway, what prompted you to unvote Glork and I? You had decent reasons for voting us in the first place...

I think you've misinterpreted my "but you should at least put some pressure on them both to test the theory", and this is probably because in retrospect perhaps I should have put the word 'have' after 'should'. However, it's fairly obvious that the entire paragraph was written in the present tense describing something in the past, and therefore that 'have' shouldn't be necessary for you to realise that I was suspicious of what he didn't do at the time, rather than asking him to finish the job in the future.

And yeah, he's added the Glork vote, AFTER I voted him for not doing it. That makes my vote more sensible than you make it out to be, and also reflects badly on him.

[ChannelDelibird]

Hey, are there even any Pros to outing the kingmaker? How does it help the town? Just curious.

Unless some idiot tries to fake-claim Kingmaker, it does mean that we're sure that person is town and therefore we can focus our lynch elsewhere (this should only happen if the kingmaker gets heavily bandwagoned/close to execution). However I'd rather not out the Kingmaker, as that's not a huge help.

I'm putting together some of my thoughts. Will post them all in a nice shiny post a bit later on.

[ChannelDelibird]

All right, here’s my take on stuff since my second-to-most-recent post.

There's really not much else I can say in my defense that i didn't say already, so I'll just be quiet for now. As long as I can. I know there are a lot of posts and theres huge flooding, but please read my entire post and think about it.

If you’ve nothing to add to your defense, then post about something else. You’re not the only one being talked about and this seems to me like an excuse to lurk.

jeez... i have to explain like every little thing. i swear i'm not going to say anything for a while. I'm not even going to check the thread... la lala la laaaa....

Now it gets worse.

fine. lynch me. if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious. if town wins, i'll count it as a win for me even if i'm lynched in the first round.

honestly, i trust pj to make the right descision. and actually read what i write. i admit i made factual errors in my earlier posts. i know i'm easy to bandwagon. no self-respecting mafia player would NOT vote for me. Sorry for distracting everybody during the first round and wasting a lynch.

Unvote: All.

You’re not lynched yet. Giving up does not help your case, and if you are a townie then it doesn’t help the town win.

I’m not voting

My views on this are wholeheartedly in accordance with the following post:

Well, I won't "deal with" you not voting. The only thing voting does in this game is give pro-town people information. It gives both the king and the kingmaker direct, easy to find and interpret information about who most of the town finds scummy and who most of the town trusts at any given point in time, both of which are absolutly vital to the town's chances of winning the game. It gives us a clear, easy to follow record of what you think, have thought, and have done during the course of the game. It lets us see who voted for who, when, and why.

Voting gives the town information the town NEEDS to have, and without the normal risks of speedlynches or accidental hammers or such. So refusing to vote is actually an even MORE anti-town action in this game then it would be in a normal game, because in a normal game scum have some solid reasons to vote; here, they have less.

So I think at this point I'm going to continue voting for you, MOS, until you make at least one vote.

…apart from the me voting MoS bit, which I am not and don’t feel is necessary yet. If MoS continues to refuse to vote, that opinion will change.

Any day where the King is scum is likely a lost day anyways. In that case you might as well point out why he is scum; maybe you can convince town to have such a scum test a hero claim or try to execute a likely partner.

I hadn’t thought of doing that in a scum-king situation, but I’m glad you did.

Good thing I’m not scum this game, like last time (this is paraphrased)

FoS: Petroleumjelly

No need to keep letting us know. It sounds like you’re anxious.

Urgh.

Vote: MBL, box, pablito

I have not read the first kingmaker.
I do not have cases against these people.
I do not know whether I will be building cases.
I play by gut.

Wake me up when September ends.

And yes, I'm reading.
Or attempting.
Skimming?

Urgh.

Is Phoebus always like this? I found this…strange.

So we have MoS saying he won't vote, but his suspicions will be laid out in full and we should take note of his words rather than his voting pattern. Then, on the other hand, we have Phoebus saying he plays by gut and may not bother making cases against people, leaving only his votes to indicate his thoughts.

That's quite a tag-team.

Vote: Mert

for trying to tie two players together, however subtly.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'll third the request for a LOE.

[ChannelDelibird]

Apologies for falling behind again. Will post my thoughts within the hour.

[ChannelDelibird]

PJ, you expressed concern over my votes on Cbox and Mert, so here’s my explanations for those:

It’s possible that both pablito and glork are scum. The idea is that pablito is the over-eager mafia, trying to support his pal. Glork knows how to play, and therefore doesn’t want the obvious attention and association, whether he is scum or not.

This is the post that made me vote for Cbox. He presents a theory of both pablito and Glork being scum but only votes for Pablito, which is double standards and possibly trying to protect Glork.

He then says:

The reason I'm not voting for Glork at this point is that the only situations suggested to me by their actions are that either both of them are townies, pablito is scum and glork is townie, or both are scum. Is it all right if I just kind of FOS Glork at this point? Actually, I'll Vote: Glork for presure, and then take it off

And now, after being called out on it, ends up voting Glork really flimsily. It just looks like he’s trying to fall into line with everyone else (blending in, as I’m sure you know, helps scum).

My reasons for the Mert vote were not so severe but it was something that rubbed me up the wrong way.

So we have MoS saying he won't vote, but his suspicions will be laid out in full and we should take note of his words rather than his voting pattern. Then, on the other hand, we have Phoebus saying he plays by gut and may not bother making cases against people, leaving only his votes to indicate his thoughts.

That's quite a tag-team.

Here, albeit subtly, I felt he was linking MoS and Phoebus together. I don’t place such value on it as I do on the Cbox vote, and if this was a regular mafia game I would have just Minor FoS’ed him instead.

Hope that clears up the issues you had, and I’ll cover my thoughts on what’s happened since my last post ASAP.