Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[jasonT1981]

Line of inquiry? The ship sinks. Thats how titanic ends. If you've seen it once you've seen it a million times. Whats he going to get out of rc's selfvote and going 'thoughts'... Jason didn't give an inquisition he just voted. Whats RC going to say?

What makes selfvoting scummy in the rvs? Jason will go, gee I don't know.

End of story. Lets get to the meat of the game. Jasons vote sucked. Any inquiry on selfvoting will suck.

In everygame people answer stupid questions not directed at them. THEY question UNEXPLAINED votes on people who aren't voting them. You should have seen this a million times.... Helll even KK had to be told by Yates to stop answering for Jason, because Yates was waiting for a specific response.
)

Ben, stop.. just stop talking.

Refering to the bolded... I am not questioning the self vote as such.

I am questioning why he chose to try to bring all discussion about himself about his selfvoting and wanting us all to discuss it when he did not even discuss what was a pretty big talking issue in the game by this stage.

that is what I am saying.

I am not voting for him because he self voted. No where have I said this.

[jasonT1981]

It never fails to annoy me how people can not understand what is in plain, english text. Sometimes I am thinking I am speaking some dead language and all people hear is background noise like a distant ghost or something not understanding what is being said fully. Just picking up on small things and not the big picture.

Please read, and re-read before posting. I do not wish to bore myself to death again trying to correct people about what I said.

[snifit]

Checking in--was out of town. Will have to read later, sorry.

[PeregrineV]

@ Peregrine I saw you take this same stance regarding the PGO towards Quadz in Otherworld. Did your perspective not change even a little, after the doctor derped and healed Quadz thereby killing himself and almost clearing my partner who had been blocked that night and would have been confirmed scum but for the added kill?

Thing is I'll trade not having scum kill themselves by attempting to kill a PGO over having the doctor kill themselves every time.

I meant to only give my thoughts once more, since the cat can't be stuffed back into the bag, so this is a good question.

I know conventional wisdom is, in the case of miller, to claim, so that the cop doesn't investigate you and get back a scum result.
However, by claiming your role as miller, you are also saying "I will most likely be the target of a cop investigation due to my scummy or anti-town play. In addition, my play will be bad enough to require an investigation of me over all other current players."

If you are going to claim PGO in order to save town PRs, you are claiming that "I will most likely be the most obvious town and the greatest scumhunter the thread has ever seen. This will cause watchers and doctors to want to target me, but I won't be so town as to draw the nightkill or the attention of a scum PR. Or, I will be so scummy that I will cause investigative or town blocking roles to target me causing their death, but I won't be so scummy as to be lynched."

So, as far as Acomist, it's going to be a claim and nothing else.

[jasonT1981]

I see no scum motivation in a PGO claim so early on.

If anything, scum would (for the most part) claim miller for any future guilty result that may be found on them. Not PGO.

[jasonT1981]

Or at least whatever exactly it was he was claiming, I know he said it was like a PGO but was not by name or something.

[PeregrineV]

I see no scum motivation in a PGO claim so early on.

If anything, scum would (for the most part) claim miller for any future guilty result that may be found on them. Not PGO.

As scum, any town PR would be taking a chance to target him, leaving him free to kill or use his scum PR. Would also be an excuse to not be nightkilled.
If he is scum and claims later, after he's already targeted, he could be counterclaimed by a role that's already targeted him and lived.

[Nero Cain]

Ben, stop.. just stop talking.

I concur.

[Benmage]

Jason

-alright Jay I yield. I eagerly await what epiphany will befall us with his response.

Why waste time? Are you serious? It's two days into day one...on page six. There is no wasting time in trying to get early reads.

Whats your current read on Yates and how strong is it?

I see no scum motivation in a PGO claim so early on.

If anything, scum would (for the most part) claim miller for any future guilty result that may be found on them. Not PGO.

Don't you see tho? PGO is the evolution of the of the scum fakeclaiming miller D1 tactic. KK did it with success. Faraday had his partner do it with success. Shahrizai just said RC did it in a previous game and won. It's clearly a legitimate effective strategy. People are aware of it. There was a game somewhat recently I was in that had a Miller in it. The Miller as Miller 1-0-1 strategy is opened claiming. I'm pretty sure I and many were torn on PL the Miller or not. Pretty sure I referenced KK's game etc etc.

-So clearly scum could have such a motivation. Miller > Cop.... PGO > All town PRs. And zero excuse for why scum didn't NK. Scum might NK a baddass TownMiller. Scum will never NK a PGO.

-What PV said.

-Nero, go fluff elsewhere.

[Tammy]

Why waste time? Are you serious? It's two days into day one...on page six. There is no wasting time in trying to get early reads.

Whats your current read on Yates and how strong is it?

Why did you cut off the part where I actually gave what my read on Yates was? If you want to pursue this line of questioning fine, but don't act like I didn't already talk about where I stood on Yates. Now ask me a question, if you want to know, that takes into consideration the fact that I've already talked about Yates.

Because I don't want to. Now you're acting like this is the first game you've seen me in. What's up with that? If I wanted to vote Yates, I would. And I almost did for the reason I don't like about Yates; however, I don't agree with the reason for the wagon building. I'm having trouble reconciling scum Yates with this line of questioning he's been going through. I would imagine he would back down a bit and stop being so insistent about it as it's getting him votes. So, until I have a better read on him, I'm not voting him.

Also, I asked you a question. Don't ignore it again.

When did you get your super scum read on Yates, and what's it for?

[rapidcanyon]

Just got caught up. I missed quite a bit.

I buy Acosmist's claim. Usually, when someone claims out of the blue early in the game, they are usually town trying to alert someone of a unique nature of their role (PGO/miller) etc. So, that's one person I am happy to have call town.

JasonT's vote on Acosmist seemed like a genuine mistake and reads null to me. I am not one to go on about "townslips" based on whether someone didn't read the setup. People could just as well be faking townslips and in any case, I don't think failure to read the theme or the setup should be rewarded with a townread. I for instance, always make sure to read the setup regardless of affiliation.

@ Bloodcovenant's 22, I don't think every unconfirmed player needs to be killed and there is no danger in "leaving alive" unconfirmed players. We'll have to see how Acosmist plays and whether he plays pro-town, and watch him behavior just like we do every other player in the game. If he is scummy, we lynch him. I see no reason why an early unconfirmable claim needs to be lynched within the first three days just because.

Odd as it may sound, Nero Cain's reaction to my self-vote actually came off as townish. I can see scum motivation behind making me look suspicious (achieve a mislynch) but I just don't see why scum would call it "stupid" - potentially irritating a townie but not follow up and try to lynch said townie.

Kublai Khan's 30 came off as scummy. My self-vote was RVS vote, no reason to treat it as anything but, just because I chose myself to RVS vote.

You're not funny or original. Plus you're more likely to be scum since you're consciously trying to limit information that others can learn about you. So congrats.

I don't see any information "limiting" coming from a self-vote. This FOS seems completely fabricated. Checking back to see Kublai Khan's posts, he was way too quick to say that Jason towntelled for a very poor reason (not reading the setup). He also doesn't vote me. Why the weak FOS and no vote? It almost seems as if he is hoping someone would pick up that FOS.

Shahrizai, what about my self-vote "bugs" you and what does it have to do with Salamence's miller claim?

Now that you mention it, the miller claim does seem similar to Acosmist's early claim. I still buy Acosmist's claim though. Sal's claim in Disney Villains was the exception rather than the rule.

I agree with Shahrizai's 34though, blood covenant seems scummy for pushing Acosmist PL. But what I am really wondering is:

Shahrizai, why you you against Acosmist PL? You reference Sal's antics in Disney Villains game yet you are agaisnt a PL. I am against it too, but I don't think based on your post, that you would be agaisnt it. Something seems off there.

VOTE: BloodCovenent

His suggestion of a PL on Acosmist reads as a) a way to avoid/redirect the discussion about Jason/Zabriel and b) an attempt to get someone out of the way who can't be NK without a scum sacrifice. Jason's vote doesn't seem as calculated as BC's suggestion.

RC attempting a self-vote reaction test also bugs me; in our last game together, Disney Villains, he was scum with Salamance, and they had Sala claim Miller on D1 which helped them win the game so I don't think he's above trying to pull something crazy here, too.

The first paragraph seems odd coming from Shah's experience which she decided to put in the second paragraph.

Post 51 - 54, interaction with KK and others makes me lean KK-scum even more.

PergrinV's 86, after a quick vote on KK, he unvotes and votes for... self-voting? Quite odd.

Benmage calls my self-vote a "towntell," no idea why. Tammy calls it "bad." Again, a really weak push. Ideally, if someone else self-voted, I'd just ignore it. Some of the comments calling me town and scum are mostly making an issue out of a non-issue.

I just saw, Benmage's 144 sums it up perfectly.

Overall, I am going to go ahead and vote Shahrizai.

VOTE: Shahrizai

[Benmage]

Also, I asked you a question. Don't ignore it again.

When did you get your super scum read on Yates, and what's it for?

I read it. I don't recall saying I had a 'super' scum read. Did I? Anywhose, I purposely wanted to wait before further commenting on Yates (see how some things develope if you will) Off shitty memory, where you said you hated BC not for his proposition but for not giving an opinion. I am of the complete opposite ideology for often when I propose something I like to see others responses WITHOUT knowledge of my opinion to influence them. Also, I would advise not threatening me, you're lucky I didn't just say go eff urself on principle alone.



--As for your Yates read, You say you almost voted him for you "reasons" you disliked. You never list these reasons (I suppose thats what I wanted)...you don't really say how strong your read is or whether it leans scum/town. You only go on to say you wouldn't expect him to keep his line of thought/questioning. (Odd imo cause abandoning it may have cause worse backlash..but I digress) Anywhose it seems like your torn on him so I won't press it further.

-My purpose here I imagine was if you are or were torn what better way to strengthen a read on someone than see how they respond with an effective wagon? But yeah still early, so moving on.

[Tammy]

@ Peregrine I saw you take this same stance regarding the PGO towards Quadz in Otherworld. Did your perspective not change even a little, after the doctor derped and healed Quadz thereby killing himself and almost clearing my partner who had been blocked that night and would have been confirmed scum but for the added kill?

Thing is I'll trade not having scum kill themselves by attempting to kill a PGO over having the doctor kill themselves every time.

I meant to only give my thoughts once more, since the cat can't be stuffed back into the bag, so this is a good question.

I know conventional wisdom is, in the case of miller, to claim, so that the cop doesn't investigate you and get back a scum result.
However, by claiming your role as miller, you are also saying "I will most likely be the target of a cop investigation due to my scummy or anti-town play. In addition, my play will be bad enough to require an investigation of me over all other current players."

If you are going to claim PGO in order to save town PRs, you are claiming that "I will most likely be the most obvious town and the greatest scumhunter the thread has ever seen. This will cause watchers and doctors to want to target me, but I won't be so town as to draw the nightkill or the attention of a scum PR. Or, I will be so scummy that I will cause investigative or town blocking roles to target me causing their death, but I won't be so scummy as to be lynched."

So, as far as Acomist, it's going to be a claim and nothing else.

I don't know that you can lay this on someone though because we can never be sure how town/prs/scum are going to act towards you despite your best efforts. For instance, I've been a near universal town read in several games, but I'm almost never healed and almost never targeted early game by scum. But sometimes I've been killed early when there's been a lot of suspicion on me. You just don't know how it's going to go.

Acosmist won't be getting a free pass, if anything he'll probably have more scrutiny than he would have otherwise.

@rapidcanyon - your self-vote wasn't bad in and of itself. I know one person who self votes in every game. What was bad about your self-vote was the "thoughts" you added to it. It read off, like you were trying to be clever and try to generate discussion about your self vote which reads off with you now suggesting that if someone self voted you'd ignore it. However, you added "thoughts" to the self vote which means you clearly didn't want it ignored.

[rapidcanyon]

@rapidcanyon - your self-vote wasn't bad in and of itself. I know one person who self votes in every game. What was bad about your self-vote was the "thoughts" you added to it. It read off, like you were trying to be clever and try to generate discussion about your self vote which reads off with you now suggesting that if someone self voted you'd ignore it. However, you added "thoughts" to the self vote which means you clearly didn't want it ignored.

I wasn't "trying to be clever" but even if you percieved it as such, how do you go from "trying to be clever" to "superbad?"

Also you didn't know that I would have ignored it until I said so.

[Tammy]

Yes, and I was addressing your read about it. I probably wouldn't have addressed you about it again if you hadn't said what you would do to someone who self-voted. I wrote in that very first comment that it was superbad, and then said that unless you were an alt, you were new and maybe trying something you thought would be clever.

I don't care that you self voted. I know someone who self votes in almost every game, it's a pretty null tell. What struck me as off was that you added "thoughts" to it, like you thought it would generate discussion which yeah to me is Superbad but maybe you trying to be clever, it's not alignment telling as far as I'm concerned, but was jarring. And coupled with your latest post of saying you would ignore self votes reads off.

The self vote alone, nah, probably wouldn't have noticed it at all.

[Tammy]

Also, I asked you a question. Don't ignore it again.

When did you get your super scum read on Yates, and what's it for?

I read it. I don't recall saying I had a 'super' scum read. Did I? Anywhose, I purposely wanted to wait before further commenting on Yates (see how some things develope if you will) Off shitty memory, where you said you hated BC not for his proposition but for not giving an opinion. I am of the complete opposite ideology for often when I propose something I like to see others responses WITHOUT knowledge of my opinion to influence them. Also, I would advise not threatening me, you're lucky I didn't just say go eff urself on principle alone.



--As for your Yates read, You say you almost voted him for you "reasons" you disliked. You never list these reasons (I suppose thats what I wanted)...you don't really say how strong your read is or whether it leans scum/town. You only go on to say you wouldn't expect him to keep his line of thought/questioning. (Odd imo cause abandoning it may have cause worse backlash..but I digress) Anywhose it seems like your torn on him so I won't press it further.

-My purpose here I imagine was if you are or were torn what better way to strengthen a read on someone than see how they respond with an effective wagon? But yeah still early, so moving on.

You're voting for him and you asked if I was his partner...that would suggest to me that you had a scum read on him.

Fair enough on waiting to see what develops. I often do that myself, and with BC it's not that he didn't give his opinion right up front, though I will admit I framed my dissatisfaction that way, it's that he never weighs in again. So, he starts the discussion and he's posted in the interim and others have weighed in, but he hasn't addressed it again. That bothers me.

How do you get a threat out of that? You've seen me get pissy when I feel like I'm being ignored.

See this is where you're not reading. I said that what I didn't like, and what originally had me ready to vote him was his vote and reasoning on bloodcovenent. I hated his Sheeping in shariza and his lack of Trying to determine if what BC suggested was really scummy. However, his pushing of the Jason thing is troubling. I would imagine as scum he wouldn't keep pushing Jason, wouldn't call kk a douche for interfering, and would have maybe defended himself and moved on...but even after people were voting him he was still pushing his questions to Jason. But yes, I'm torn. I have an especially hard time reading people who have fooled me in the past, and in the heroes of comedy game I referenced, he was a strong town read but was scum, so I'm a little stuck.

But he's the leading wagon? Why join it when I'm not sure? My vote isn't going to do anything for the wagon or for Yates. Besides, other people who sheep things probably will and that will be interesting and I can watch how that develops and work on other reads in the mean time.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 1.3

Mission control, I'm coming home. -The Fury, Metal Gear Solid 3

BloodCovenant - 3 (Shahrizai, Yates, I Am Innocent)
Yates - 3 (Kublai Khan, Benmage, AurorusVox)
rapidcanyon - 2 (PeregrineV, jasonT1981)
zabriel - 2 (Tammy, Nero Cain)
jasonT1981 - 1 (Zoroaster)
Amrun - 1 (Melmond)
Benmage - 1 (Acosmist)
Zoroaster - 1 (ThAdmiral)
Shahrizai - 1 (rapidcanyon)

Not voting - Kise, BloodCovenant, Amrun, snifit, Cybertronix, zabriel

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST on October 29, 2012.

Mod-If its not too much trouble could you but vote couts in order from highest to lowest.

Done.

[Tammy]

In fact

Yates

why is your vote still on blood covenant. Why have you not commented on anything other than that and the acosmist claim? What did you learn from your Jason questioning?

[pappums rat]

Kise has recieved his first prod.

[Yates]

1. I haven't found a better target? I guess there's also the fact that I find his PL post troubling as well as his sheep with no pressure post [80 - when he claims I'm flavor fishing]. Right now, he's my pony and I'm sticking with him until I find a better pony. I was planning on moving my vote to Jason if he didn't answer right - but that line of questioning went sideways and I never got the answer that would tell me if that setup spec was Town or Scum driven. So that's hitting a dead end. Also, ftr, KK is the only one currently on my wagon that was able to actually make a case as to why he thought my post could be flavor fishing. I will admit that I didn't think I'd need to tell someone NOT to tell me their alignment.

2. I try not to have too many balls in the air at once when I'm active in multiple games. The PGO claim needed immediate attention and I saw a suspicious post that required immediate attention as well. Nothing else has been all that noteworthy.

3. I learned that sometimes people need to stfu and let the subject of a question answer a question for themselves. I feel about as satisfied as a sex addict in a convent. He still never really addressed the meat of the question and I can no longer determine why he raised that setup spec when all he had to do was look at his own role. I have a null to soft scum read on him right now. The rest of his play has been uninspired but less derp. *shrug* I guess I don't know that I got anything out of it other than votes. Then again, the votes themselves can be telling as we get some flips.

[Yates]

Also, <3 Tammy. With you and PereV here I'm feeling all nostalgic. :p

[Kublai Khan]

Is Zoroaster and zoraster the same person?

Two different accounts. I'm assuming two different people.

My mistake on the selfvote. Iso still reads bleh.

So Zabriel's ISO still reads bleh when you don't consider the nonexistent self-vote that you thought you saw? Did you even actually ISO him the first time you were asked?

If I wanted to vote Yates, I would. And I almost did for the reason I don't like about Yates; however, I don't agree with the reason for the wagon building. I'm having trouble reconciling scum Yates with this line of questioning he's been going through. I would imagine he would back down a bit and stop being so insistent about it as it's getting him votes.

Hmm. Good point, actually.

unvote

Kublai Khan's 30 came off as scummy. My self-vote was RVS vote, no reason to treat it as anything but, just because I chose myself to RVS vote.

Do you know what RVS stands for? How was your self-vote "random"?

I don't see any information "limiting" coming from a self-vote. This FOS seems completely fabricated. Checking back to see Kublai Khan's posts, he was way too quick to say that Jason towntelled for a very poor reason (not reading the setup). He also doesn't vote me. Why the weak FOS and no vote? It almost seems as if he is hoping someone would pick up that FOS.

Holy crap, you're so new to mafia I'm not even sure where to start..
A) You limited what early reads can be gotten on you by self-voting. When you self-voted you neglected to comment on anything previous that had happened. You didn't join any current wagons. You didn't link yourself to anyone by voting them. In sum, self-voting means that you've avoided interacting with anyone until you can get a cold read on them first. That's why I called it scummy behavior.
B) The FOS was completely fabricated. By you. I never FOSed you. Your action was certainly scummy, but your join date is so recent that I'm undecided on how to interpret it just yet.
C) Don't assume you know my reasons for doing stuff if you're not going to bother to read my posts. Read Post 29 for the reason that jasonT1981 town-telled. I know it's a whole one post back from the post addressed to you, but keep in mind that I rarely fluff post so if I post something in the game thread, it's worth reading.
D) I didn't vote you because my vote was on someone else (Zabriel) for a non-random reason.

I can see scum motivation behind making me look suspicious (achieve a mislynch)

That all said. You're probably town because of the line quoted above. It's so mind-blowingly naive and adorably self-centered that I doubt someone with a scum PM would think that it would fly as a cover story. Which is awesome because now I can just ignore you the rest of Day 1.

I learned that sometimes people need to stfu and let the subject of a question answer a question for themselves

Fine, fine. Shutting up.

Will put a vote down next post (tomorrow).

[rapidcanyon]

@ Kublai Khan, you reason for believing I am town is odd, to say the least. It seems like something scum would come up with to have a townread. Calling a post "too bad to be scum" is rarely something that town would do? If my posts seem scummy, why are you certain that I am town? Why no worry about possible scum when you see scummy posts? I doubt but anyone but scum would be so confident that a player is town because they find that player's posts bad, not good.

You say you never FOSsed me but you did - and it was a hilariously weak one at that. "

Plus you're more likely to be scum since you're consciously trying to limit information that others can learn about you.

"

I read 29. I just don't buy it. Jason may well be town but your reasoning for thinking that is weak. If he were scum, he could have pretended to not have read the setup hoping someone like you would say that he is town. Or you could be be scum and could have planned it. There are plenty of possibilities.

On the whole, you seem focussed on very poor reasoning to get town reads as opposed to using a player's behavior in game to do so. And the "you are a newbie" line seems pretty pointless as well and to me looks like a way to difuse the situation by discrediting my read but also not directly calling me scum/OMGUSsing.

Unvote

VOTE: Kublai Khan

[ThAdmiral]

Ok so I forgot to subscribe to this game. Anyway let the recap commence:

I have to skip the random nonsense stage of my posting (inb4 Yates says "The entire game?") in order to claim:

I am Solid Snake. If you target me, you will die. This is seriously a claim of my actual role. I am a paranoid gun owner. However, my role does not make it clear whether you will die immediately. It

is

clear that

you will die if you target me

.

Do you have any reason to assume the person who targets you wouldn't die immediately? I'm just interested in why you would mention it.

In any case since you have claimed this much would you mind giving your flavour.

In general town are more likely to be ignorant of flavor than scum. Scum are more careful in knowing everything before playing.

This is a good point. I doubt scum wouldn't be aware of the fact it is a crossover game - even just based on the simple fact that they would know more roles in the game (aka their buddies roles).
Edit: basically what kk said in 29.

would it make more sense to lynch Acosmist relatively soon (before lets say... day 3), than leave him alive being unconfirmed?

serious discussion time folks.

Treat it like a miller claim. Ignore it for the most part and decide whether to lynch him or not based on his play. /discussion
Edit: so basically what kk said in 44. I like the way kk thinks.

Though I guess its possible for him to be scum and fake a town tell/go for an easy lynch.

I don't buy this. It's such a slight tell I doubt scum would even think town would pick up on it as a town tell, unless you get a scum to say it but then it becomes a very messy gambit that could easily backfire if one dies later.

Hey Thad, RVS is over.

It's over when I say it's over!!!!

I think I'd rather do a MOD meta of Pappums... I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of a PGO. AND SOLID SNAKE????? Dudes the muthafuckin l33t assassin.... PGO??? PGO??? You're looking at a JoaT, strongarm vig... Something like that, but PGO....... doubting it tbh.

you're right. if you've played any MGS games, you'd know snake keeps his cool and isn't a bitch.

Lets keep the fail-assumptions-based-on-flavour-and-outguessing-the-mod to a minimum, please.
Edit: fuck me, Kk's done it again (44). I might as well stop talking now because KK has undoubtedly said everything I want to say already.

I think it's much

more

concerning that he'd ever think scum would fakeclaim Solid Snake in a Harry Potter themed game in the first place.
Reads to me like he's faking not knowing flavour.

I think it's more likely that he is acting opportunistically as scum, and genuinely didn't know about the mgs crossover than faking it tbh. And I think

that

is very unlikely.

Why

wouldn't

I claim, and immediately?

Well there are two schools of thought.
a) the safe method - basically what you did, claim first post day 1
b) the risky (kinda dumb) method - play really town/claim another power role but try to ensure you aren't doc protected to try and draw a scum nk
edit: benmage expands on these ideas in 63.
(I'm proving rather useless aren't I?)

unvote vote I Am Innocent

3 really weak questions. Bad vote. Reads as scum trying to interject themselves into the game and put the spotlight elsewhere.

Not a bad shout.

Why are you role fishing?

This seems keen.

Why are you role fishing?

flavor fishing. Glad someone else found it to be a scummy post.

But this seems even more keen. BC's posts are rubbing me the wrong way.

Nothing. BUT - best case scenario you know you are signing up to be killed in LYLO. Also, as others have pointed out, if you play scummy the Town has no reason to wait until LYLO. So you basically paint a target on your back and have everyone paying attention to every one of your posts looking for reasons to get rid of you so you have to play Townie McTownerson. As scum, this is a pretty big gamble. Plus, Acosmist claimed right out of the shoot so he also risked the "real PGO" counter claiming. I realize PGO doesn't occur with that much regularity, but it happens enough that it was a risk. These are just some of the reasons I believe his claim.

Also, playing over the top obv Town as PGO could lead to death of a Doctor or BG or Cop or Investigator or... I don't know if historically it plays out this way but I suspect that non-claiming PGO's likely kill more Town than Scum by not claiming specifically because I think there are more chances of Town visiting you than scum. But that's just a guess. I would personally claim in my first post if I were PGO.

This is all good, reasonable stuff. To the town pile with you Yates!

that being said Benmage's 92 makes a good point about the "next evolution of the fakeclaim opening Miller claim". There certainly are benefits for scum to claim pgo (other than the obvious avoidance of town prs, you would also be able to avoid a nk from any opposing scumteam), and if Acosmist is in fact lying scum then I will definitely be tipping my hat to him in post game.

It's more than flavor fishing. The VT PM is in the OP. He's PR-fishing.

Unvote
Vote: Yates

I guess it could be at a stretch but I don't read it that way. I didn't even realise the vt role was in the first post till I went back and looked.

This is my first large theme game, but I have to agree that speculating on PRs and alignment this early is dangerous. Wouldn't this type of discussion be more suited for D2?

Any discussion that pushes the game forward is good discussion.
There's no point holding back points to be made and setting arbitrary times in which to talk about them.

UNVOTE:

Yates does come off to be fishing a little.

I don't like posts where people unvote and then don't revote someone else. Especially when his second line expresses suspicion of someone else. Why not just vote yates? An unused vote is a useless vote.
Edit: been beaten to the punch again. This time by tammy in 129.
On that subject - good first post by tammy. Welcome to the town pile.

Except you did. If Jason has any flavor, then he's not a VT.

Ok. This is a mostly fair point though I think my point above remains true. If you are a VT and your name is Voldemort, then what Jason was speculating would make sense. Conversely, if you are VT Uncle Vernon Dursley it makes no sense to make this speculation. That's all I meant by flavor matching the role. Anyway, I didn't want him to tell me any of that I just wanted to know why he didn't do this.

I accept this explanation.

@Cyber - Speculating on PRs.. really never good. Just a lot of discussion surrounding the outted PGO Acos. Speculating on alignment...?? Welcome to mafia?

Sorry I meant the alignment based on the name, ie Solid Snake must be Town because he's a "good guy" in the videogame.

Yeah, that sort of speculation is bad.

I don't know. I'm used to smaller games and I've been playing high lately. As a general rule, early on day one I like to leave my vote unattached when I'm thinking about stuff.

Is this true? I can't be bothered trawling through your posting history to see if you are lying or not.

@ Peregrine I saw you take this same stance regarding the PGO towards Quadz in Otherworld. Did your perspective not change even a little, after the doctor derped and healed Quadz thereby killing himself and almost clearing my partner who had been blocked that night and would have been confirmed scum but for the added kill?

Thing is I'll trade not having scum kill themselves by attempting to kill a PGO over having the doctor kill themselves every time.

I meant to only give my thoughts once more, since the cat can't be stuffed back into the bag, so this is a good question.

I know conventional wisdom is, in the case of miller, to claim, so that the cop doesn't investigate you and get back a scum result.
However, by claiming your role as miller, you are also saying "I will most likely be the target of a cop investigation due to my scummy or anti-town play. In addition, my play will be bad enough to require an investigation of me over all other current players."

If you are going to claim PGO in order to save town PRs, you are claiming that "I will most likely be the most obvious town and the greatest scumhunter the thread has ever seen. This will cause watchers and doctors to want to target me, but I won't be so town as to draw the nightkill or the attention of a scum PR. Or, I will be so scummy that I will cause investigative or town blocking roles to target me causing their death, but I won't be so scummy as to be lynched."

So, as far as Acomist, it's going to be a claim and nothing else.

I don't think that when someone is claiming miller they are saying that at all, ditto pgo. It's simply the safest move to avoid complications down the road because essentially we can't predict what other people will do and it's better not to leave it up to chance. Haven't you ever felt like you've played a really smart game as scum, only to find out that some bastard cop has randomly targeted you and fucked everything up? Or a game where you have mainly stayed in the background because you're the doc and don't want to draw the attention of the scum, but been killed by them anyway?

@ rapdicanyon (post 172): but then what motivation would kk have for calling you town at all if he also wants to discredit you/imply you are scum?

(@ kk: but I agree, his stubborness does seem town, doesn't it?)

[jasonT1981]

I was planning on moving my vote to Jason if he didn't answer right -

but that line of questioning went sideways and I never got the answer that would tell me if that setup spec was Town or Scum driven.

So that's hitting a dead end. Also, ftr, KK is the only one currently on my wagon that was able to actually make a case as to why he thought my post could be flavor fishing. I will admit that I didn't think I'd need to tell someone NOT to tell me their alignment.

wow wow wow hold on a minute here, I WAS NOT set up speculating. If anything I was warning that setup speculation in a mafia themed game is dangerous and you cant always determine roles based on how they may appear in their movie/game etc