Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[Benmage]

Vote Nero Cain

[Benmage]

leave him alive being unconfirmed?

serious discussion time folks.

Why?

VOTE: Rapidcanyon

Thoughts?

I remember my first large game.

Also, keep in mind that scum PMs usually list the names and characters of scummates and I think it's a fair assumption that both Harry potter and metal gear characters are scum. So Jason made a pretty strong town tell by not properly knowing the game theme.

If you believe him incapable of being skilled enough to fake such a statement. Do you?

VOTE: BloodCovenent

His suggestion of a PL on Acosmist reads as a) a way to avoid/redirect the discussion about Jason/Zabriel and b) an attempt to get someone out of the way who can't be NK without a scum sacrifice. Jason's vote doesn't seem as calculated as BC's suggestion.

A) I didn't read that in the slightest.. as it obviously didn't. Seems reallly realllllly realllly hard to try and end discussion with some small comment like his. Have you played many large games? Usually many tangents occur simultaneously.
B) Seems more like an open discussion. Have you never seen Kublai Khans game where he opened claiming Miller AND WON. KK, step in here if you will. Lets just say, there's plenty of good players in here, who had the pregame to discuss, and may have sought to take a gamble with a player like Acomists.
B2) I actually wouldn't mind delving into this discussion further.

[Benmage]

I think I'd rather do a MOD meta of Pappums... I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of a PGO. AND SOLID SNAKE????? Dudes the muthafuckin l33t assassin.... PGO??? PGO??? You're looking at a JoaT, strongarm vig... Something like that, but PGO....... doubting it tbh.

[Benmage]

Hmmmm.. *train wheels moving*

@Acomists

why did you feel the need to open claiming?

[Benmage]

I think it's much

more

concerning that he'd ever think scum would fakeclaim Solid Snake in a Harry Potter themed game in the first place.

Reads to me like he's faking not knowing flavour.

[Benmage]

^Buddying

[Benmage]

What's your goal in this game Benmage?

I hope this was a rhetorical question.

Going by your ISO you seem more interested in mud-slinging than trying to make sense of anything.

*peer* where did I mudsling?

[Benmage]

Going by your ISO you seem more interested in mud-slinging than trying to make sense of anything.

*peer* where did I mudsling?

A) Pushing the idea that jasonT1981 is deliberately faking a towntell.
B) Referrencing the game where I fakeclaimed miller out of nowhere
C) Casting aspersions on the Solid Snake/PGO claim via mod meta
D) Accusing me of buddying for arguing a POV.

Mind you it's only page 3 so the examples aren't full-blown attempts at anything, but there does seem to be a pattern emerging where you're playing up suspicion/paranoia and devaluing any early town reads.

A)I didn't really push this. I only questioned the quick town write off. I don't understand how this can be considered mudslinging.
B) In reference to Acomists PGO claim. Basically here he says No trackers/watchers/cops check me out or you'll die. Considering you have experience with early scum fakeclaims. I know Faraday once had a shitty partner of his also fakeclaim MILLER and GO ON TO WIN. I don't see how stating this info isn't worthwild, and certainly not out of nowhere. Moreoever I do have a lingering question for Acomist. I'm actually surprised how quickly you also wrote him off as town. Whats the nice buzz word... White Knighting?
C) Subjective. You might not like to play out guess the mod.. but knowing certain mod history can be beneficial. Some mods hate certain roles and will never use them. (More here, but again lingering question)
D) This is the only arguable "mud-sling".... But it doesn't negate the fact that it read like buddying behind a veil of sarcasm.

And yes it is page 3. I am waiting for people to check in, and recheck in. I don't think I'm being paranoid. Cautious... fair enough, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at all angles and to have as much info on pertinent matters as possible.

-What would be my hypo agenda in devaluing early town reads, and playing up certain paranoia?
--Certaintly you can't be thinking my master plan is to stop town reads from forming... that'd be absurd.
---Paranoia? A million tangents, noone trust noone? Meh... You think I'm aiming to be an early game scum Ring Leader? (Take another gander at the playerlist)

[Benmage]

Why

wouldn't

I claim, and immediately?

Well the reasoning to claim is to protect PRs. dur. +

The reasoning against is now scum won't target you, thus you can't NK any scum who may have targeted you. -

So while we gain a plus with not losing prs unnecessarily... we lose an opportunity to nk scum.

As far as debatable worth of which one could be better would probably be determined on what prs we might have in the game, and or the strength of those PRs.... If we happen to have a Cop (arguably the strongest PR).. Than losing him unnecessarily would be detrimental.

Whereas if we have a very weak town... where you might actually be one of the more powerful roles, not claiming/risking it and nailing a scum could've been the better course. Yada Yada IIoA.

Anywhose, glad to see noone was like zomg Snake must be town, as that is baloney. That said I do appreciate the caveat to your claim, and think you're likely town as result of it + the way you did open claiming is town 101. (which goes back to my accusation of KK for WK something he knew to be town) The caveat being a delayed death. Therefore in an endgame scenario PGO vs final scum. Final scum wins.

[Benmage]

unvote vote I Am Innocent

3 really weak questions. Bad vote. Reads as scum trying to interject themselves into the game and put the spotlight elsewhere.

[Benmage]

Whewwwwwwwww boy, my RVS vote is now a real vote.

I don't see the issue here. Yes I'm being talkative. Its early, there's not much to talk about. I hate vagueness like this post of yours. Explain to me your problem with this post or me, as if I were a 5 year old.

Nice: post 73

I won't be sheeping Benmage any time soon, though, that's for sure.

You should reconsider... who else could you possibly have as a better town read than me?

I'll get around to it. Not right now.

... Letsa...Lets make this a priority please. That's how games progress.

Why don't all scum just not act scummy?

I think you're missing the point. Whats to stop scum from claiming PGO in a game?

TY.

-Amrun, just sheep me .

[Benmage]

Oh did you mean you won't be sheeping, and voting me?

-Anyways on the PGO thing. Yes In a large theme game like this I would claim PGO as well. That said, as a badass risky scum maneuver (which sometimes ya gotta do) claiming PGO is almost the next evolution of the fakeclaim opening Miller claim. KK did it with success, as did Faraday's(partner under his guidance). Don't know who else or how many failures, but that's irrelevant. To take a subpar partner and give them such a fakeclaim can push them further endgame than the may have. Why auto lynch lylo? And as I was saying. People are onto the Miller fakeclaim. People will analyze and not write that off because people have used it before. I know of no incidents of fake PGO claims. But a PGO claim doesn't just ward off cops like Miller claims. It wards off every single PR out there, (and says scum will never NK me).

Anyways I'm sure this point is made now... Bordem is boring.

[Benmage]

@zabriel

why are you still voting Jason?

[Benmage]

Where are you getting the idea I'd be the subpar partner?

Are you confusing me with someone else?

I don't think I'm familiar with your play. It was more a statement.

... Letsa...Lets make this a priority please. That's how games progress.

What gave you the impression I wasn't intentionally doing that?

My vote and I are in love.

Nothing. I just wanted to avoid any stalling as I've seen it done plenty of times with players getting distracted. I just wanted to preemtively nip it in the bud. And again you say your in love with your vote yet have still failed to respond to the question. So now there is the impression that you aren't making answering the question a priority.

In this game here, we have two people saying a PGO should just not claim, somehow magically play really well as town, and get targeted by scum and only scum.

I get that you're SoooOOOoo tied up with time that you are skim reading. But can you quote me saying a PGO should not claim please.

So yeah, I'm good lynching either one of these guys today.

Excuse me while I chuckle and wish you the best of luck.

-I don't understand the point of your last two posts on this page Acosmist. But I guess it further reinforces you ignoring the questions asked of you. Which also further reinforces my quasi presumption that you'd be the subpar player.

[Benmage]

A) It's more of a "denying the positive accentuates the negative" type of thing.
B) I never said Acosmist was town. I just said I wasn't going to policy lynch him.
C) I'd rather ignore the mod altogether. Makes things simpler.
D) Well, it's not. I saw a town-tell and a bandwagon formed on it. So I tried to prevent a bad lynch. If that's buddying to you then you have a very broad definition of the word.

A) Subjective
B) So you yield your initial point.
C) Still Subjective
D) Buddying is Buddying. Town Buddy. Scum Buddy. You Buddy'd by my definition. It peaked more of an interest because you gave the impression of TWO quick town write offs without the need of further discussion. Jason/Aco (maybe I was wrong with the impression, but thats how it came across to me)

-What would be my hypo agenda in devaluing early town reads, and playing up certain paranoia?
--Certaintly you can't be thinking my master plan is to stop town reads from forming... that'd be absurd.
---Paranoia? A million tangents, noone trust noone? Meh... You think I'm aiming to be an early game scum Ring Leader? (Take another gander at the playerlist)

It's possible. I think that you do have the ego to make the attempt.

Possible. Anythings Possible. Lets go with what you think the likeliness is?

And I'll cut to the chase. My ego is massive. 10X more massive as town than scum. For my scum game is done perfectly. I'm not going to attempt to take control of this game with such independent individuals day one. I'll wait to D3/D4 and than become the puppet master.

That said as town. D1 works for me .

Why are you role fishing?

flavor fishing. Glad someone else found it to be a scummy post.

It's more than flavor fishing. The VT PM is in the OP. He's PR-fishing.

Unvote
Vote: Yates

Can you link me a segment of game where scum actually are PR-fishing? I've seen this been accused of people a million times as something scum do. I don't think I've ever seen the accusation correct nor seen scum actually PR fishing.

[Benmage]

Lol KK, linking the Miller game. Badass.

Yeah thats a real good call on the flavor fishing. Sometimes I am guilty of glossing over PMs and Rules/OP.

[Benmage]

B) I'm a little lost. What was my original point that I am apparently yielding now?
D) That's sorta become my playstyle for day 1. Since there are so many players and there's so little information, I find it easier to just narrow my focus by systematically ignoring people that town-tell or for whatever reason aren't going to be lynched Day 1. That doesn't mean I will continue to ignore them throughout the game. At the start of Day 2 is where the real scum-hunting begins.

B) That I brought up your/Miller claiming out of nowhere. It was in relation to PGO/Acos (Hence not out of nowhere).
D) True enough. D1 lotsa motions. Lotsa weak attacks.

alrighty lets see where this train takes us. (pun intended )

unvote vote Yates

Too much inactivity!?!? (thats what I get for free time and only being in 1 game... )

[Benmage]

Yes character names themselves are no indication of alignment. This has been done a thousand times. Shit there was a past Harry Potter mafia where Harry was scum. Moreover scum are given safeclaims so name claims/characters tend to be worthless.

That said, Yates you did dance a rather thin line asking if his FLAVOR matched his role. As any flavor here is an indication of a PR.... thats no good my friend.

[Benmage]

Jason

... that rc vote couldn't really suck any harder.

Nowhere more useful to put it?

[Benmage]

Yeah that was just quick off the cusp mental notes. I wouldn't give it much credit, and Aco already stated his role aint called PGO, just something like a PGO.

[Benmage]

@Cyber - Speculating on PRs.. really never good. Just a lot of discussion surrounding the outted PGO Acos. Speculating on alignment...?? Welcome to mafia?

[Benmage]

^So long as AV keeps sheeping me (inb4sheepedKKdamnuKK)

[Benmage]

Jason

... that rc vote couldn't really suck any harder.

Nowhere more useful to put it?

You know PV also voted RC. Why the selective scumhunting?

Its called focus.

[Benmage]

Support the Yates wagon though not necessarily for the role fishing thing. The line of questioning is odd, but what I remember from him in Heroes of Comedy is that he has a rather odd way of thinking/questioning things. He was scum in that game though so I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. What does bother me is his ready jump onto the BloodCovenent wagon in Post 36 without actually reasoning out what BloodCovenent suggested or why. Something about it just struck me as really disingenuous.

Nice open-ended setup to hop on to the Yates wagon when needed.

VOTE: Zabriel Why'd you quietly unvote Jason after Benmage asked you why you were still voting him and not vote anyone else yet opt to push the Yates wagon along by agreeing that he looks like he's role fishing?

Look at Zabriels iso... Noob with the game over his head?
-I have a tough time reading the inexperienced. But I think the attempt at being coy (selfvoting) as a noob, is a towntell. And everything is rather noobtelling than alignment telling.

[Benmage]

Nero,

why did you vote zoarster?

[Benmage]

VOTE: Zabriel Why'd you quietly unvote Jason after Benmage asked you why you were still voting him and not vote anyone else yet opt to push the Yates wagon along by agreeing that he looks like he's role fishing?

Look at Zabriels iso... Noob with the game over his head?
-I have a tough time reading the inexperienced. But I think the attempt at being coy (selfvoting) as a noob, is a towntell. And everything is rather noobtelling than alignment telling.

He didn't self-vote. Rapidcanyon did.

Why are you rushing to defend people before there is a chance to get them to respond, and get a read on them?

My mistake on the selfvote. Iso still reads bleh. I'll make the read noobnull over noob town tho.

I wouldn't really call this a defense. I'm active, bored, freetime =activity. You act like this is the first game you've seen me... whats up with that?

[Benmage]

Support the Yates wagon though not necessarily for the role fishing thing. The line of questioning is odd, but what I remember from him in Heroes of Comedy is that he has a rather odd way of thinking/questioning things. He was scum in that game though so I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. What does bother me is his ready jump onto the BloodCovenent wagon in Post 36 without actually reasoning out what BloodCovenent suggested or why. Something about it just struck me as really disingenuous.

Nice open-ended setup to hop on to the Yates wagon when needed.

Your point?

Why not join the lead wagon now? Keep the train trucking. Why waste time with that peasant vote? You can pressure him without voting if that's your little hearts desire.

[Benmage]

Oh and if you can't read between the lines. I also found it scummy/you.

[Benmage]

Tammy, is yates your partner?

[Benmage]

Alright alright, I know Im spamming... I'm going to walk away now. Butttttt:

and I've been playing high lately.

Are you talking about be high like smoking marijuana and playing?

[Benmage]

But, yes, you've done it twice now. Jason was questioning Rapidcanyon and you told him his vote was bad thereby basically negating his line of inquiry.

Line of inquiry? The ship sinks. Thats how titanic ends. If you've seen it once you've seen it a million times. Whats he going to get out of rc's selfvote and going 'thoughts'... Jason didn't give an inquisition he just voted. Whats RC going to say? What makes selfvoting scummy in the rvs? Jason will go, gee I don't know. End of story. Lets get to the meat of the game. Jasons vote sucked. Any inquiry on selfvoting will suck.

In everygame people answer stupid questions not directed at them. THEY question UNEXPLAINED votes on people who aren't voting them. You should have seen this a million times.... Helll even KK had to be told by Yates to stop answering for Jason, because Yates was waiting for a specific response.

Point is..... IT HAPPENS.

(meant to walk away )

[Benmage]

Jason

-alright Jay I yield. I eagerly await what epiphany will befall us with his response.

Why waste time? Are you serious? It's two days into day one...on page six. There is no wasting time in trying to get early reads.

Whats your current read on Yates and how strong is it?

I see no scum motivation in a PGO claim so early on.

If anything, scum would (for the most part) claim miller for any future guilty result that may be found on them. Not PGO.

Don't you see tho? PGO is the evolution of the of the scum fakeclaiming miller D1 tactic. KK did it with success. Faraday had his partner do it with success. Shahrizai just said RC did it in a previous game and won. It's clearly a legitimate effective strategy. People are aware of it. There was a game somewhat recently I was in that had a Miller in it. The Miller as Miller 1-0-1 strategy is opened claiming. I'm pretty sure I and many were torn on PL the Miller or not. Pretty sure I referenced KK's game etc etc.

-So clearly scum could have such a motivation. Miller > Cop.... PGO > All town PRs. And zero excuse for why scum didn't NK. Scum might NK a baddass TownMiller. Scum will never NK a PGO.

-What PV said.

-Nero, go fluff elsewhere.

[Benmage]

Also, I asked you a question. Don't ignore it again.

When did you get your super scum read on Yates, and what's it for?

I read it. I don't recall saying I had a 'super' scum read. Did I? Anywhose, I purposely wanted to wait before further commenting on Yates (see how some things develope if you will) Off shitty memory, where you said you hated BC not for his proposition but for not giving an opinion. I am of the complete opposite ideology for often when I propose something I like to see others responses WITHOUT knowledge of my opinion to influence them. Also, I would advise not threatening me, you're lucky I didn't just say go eff urself on principle alone.



--As for your Yates read, You say you almost voted him for you "reasons" you disliked. You never list these reasons (I suppose thats what I wanted)...you don't really say how strong your read is or whether it leans scum/town. You only go on to say you wouldn't expect him to keep his line of thought/questioning. (Odd imo cause abandoning it may have cause worse backlash..but I digress) Anywhose it seems like your torn on him so I won't press it further.

-My purpose here I imagine was if you are or were torn what better way to strengthen a read on someone than see how they respond with an effective wagon? But yeah still early, so moving on.

[Benmage]

@Thad

an explained vote would rock.

[Benmage]

Though I find it rather odd that Ben is devoting so much time into trying to throw doubt onto Acomist but isn't voting.

What voting Acosmist? At the moment I think he's town, but its still so early. I wouldn't call what I'm saying is doubting him, I am more enlightening everyone to previously effective scum tactics. I think this is the second time you've made false undermining statements regarding me. (Maybe I'll gander later when I have more time)

[Benmage]

What else would have been worth wild for early game discussion Nero?? The color of the sky? Awesome. Thanks for illustrating how little a clue about mafia you really have.

[Benmage]

What voting Acosmist? At the moment I think he's town, but its still so early. I wouldn't call what I'm saying is doubting him, I am more enlightening everyone to previously effective scum tactics. I think this is the second time you've made false undermining statements regarding me. (Maybe I'll gander later when I have more time)

I can't shake the fact that this really looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"I think he's town!" "But his claim is totally something scum would fake!"

You're pro-activeness in pointing out potential scum strategies is rubbing me the wrong way. Why bring up what is basically a WIFOM argument

so early in a game?

Especially when you yourself don't think it's likely.

The best way of ending rvs is getting the game into meaty discussion. That was defiantly achieved here. And as I began discussion around the topic I was wavering more on Acos's alignment, and tho I may lean to a side now the read is far from concrete. Not to mention I could easily be wrong, and down the road (nk'd) might not have the opportunity to have shared the valid scum tactic.

I don't think anything I've said has impacted peoples reads on Acos's alignment. It may have helped people who may have previously written off a PGO as auto town keep an eye on him. GOOOD.

I'm, trying to find what negativity could be reasoned about my statements... Its seems more like you're forcing the appearance of "fence-sitting" if you will, when that really isn't the case here. This is more a MD discussion, on what to do with a D1 PGO claim, and I gave both sides of the argument.

I can be a Liberal and argue from a Republican point of view and not be a Reupblican, and vica versa. Or I can be UNCERTAIN on evolution v creation and be able to argue both points equally. (feel like Im ranting, so yeah... need to finish gettting ready for work)

[Benmage]

*basshead*

Hey back on this topic that I got attacked for:

I just saw, Benmage's 144 sums it up perfectly.

Jason could've easily said, its not a shitty vote and defended the stance against me thus creating further discusssion *gasp*
*****Which BTW Jason... did you ever further attack/question RC after he answered you? I didn't think I saw anything, but may have missed it.

My mistake on the selfvote. Iso still reads bleh.

So Zabriel's ISO still reads bleh when you don't consider the nonexistent self-vote that you thought you saw? Did you even actually ISO him the first time you were asked?

Asked? You mean when I said I did. Yeah yeah I was just multi-tasking, looking a few of the low contributor isos, and mixed up the two I guess because they both have newish start dates.

A) You limited what early reads can be gotten on you by self-voting. When you self-voted you neglected to comment on anything previous that had happened. You didn't join any current wagons. You didn't link yourself to anyone by voting them. In sum, self-voting means that you've avoided interacting with anyone until you can get a cold read on them first. That's why I called it scummy behavior.

I don't think rvs selfvoting itself limits reads anymore than any other rvs vote.
-Neglecting other 'important' aspects of the game. Sure call that scummy. But I'll sometimes pop into a game thats started drop a rando rvs, read/respond to nothing and return later (not saying thats the case here)

I can see scum motivation behind making me look suspicious (achieve a mislynch)

That all said. You're probably town because of the line quoted above. It's so mind-blowingly naive and adorably self-centered that I doubt someone with a scum PM would think that it would fly as a cover story. Which is awesome because now I can just ignore you the rest of Day 1.

Thats a good grab, I think I glossed over this.

@ Kublai Khan, you reason for believing I am town is odd, to say the least. It seems like something scum would come up with to have a townread.

Calling a post "too bad to be scum" is rarely something that town would do?

Is that a statement or a question? If its a question, I'll go ahead and say I write people off as being too bad to do as scum all the time as town. Although one must avoid the old scotsman thing.

that being said Benmage's 92 makes a good point about the "next evolution of the fakeclaim opening Miller claim". There certainly are benefits for scum to claim pgo (other than the obvious avoidance of town prs, you would also be able to avoid a nk from any opposing scumteam), and if Acosmist is in fact lying scum then I will definitely be

tipping my hat to him in post game.

Don't worry I'll gloat enough for all parties present.

(Hey, so just kinda procrastinating going to the gym... I've been skim reading /disjointly reading the last few new pages. So with time I'm going back over some pages. This post is an incomplete catchup if you will, therefore there's no connecting conclusion (if one was needed).. anywhose going to the gym now... bbl to reread more)

*awolnation not your fault*

*songs I started with and ended with, gg pandora*

[Benmage]

*****Which BTW Jason... did you ever further attack/question RC after he answered you? I didn't think I saw anything, but may have missed it.

I don't actually think he ever directly answered it, did he?

If you double back that last quote of mine to his post, I believe post 160 he says I answer it... I imagine thats answering it? Not really sure to be honest... but if you we're awaiting a response... and didn't see one, why didn't you press it further?

[Benmage]

Also, Solid Snake is a main character, and one that we'd generally assume is in the game. I feel like it would be too ballsy to fakeclaim when somebody could very easily nameclaim and send him to the gallows quick.

God I hope as I read further someone corrected this^.

@zabriel

Sometimes mods will not include main characters (I know crazy). And also sometimes they won't include them, BUT they will give them to scum as SAFECLAIMS.

As far as your "Nero iz makin' false statements about me!!!" Bullshit. I had pointed out that you had lightly attacked Jason for his vote on RC but not PV. That's not a false statement in the least.

Its not necessary, because there's nothing wrong with selectivity in questioning. Slightly different yet similar scenario: I want to question players A+B over something they both did (like RC/PV) But I want player A's answer to be uninfluenced. I ask him first, than I ask player B... Always motives. For me, it was more a focus thing. Deal with 1 thing at a time to not be too distracted doing too many things.

+ the unnecessary jape at me selecting a segment from Jason telling me to stop talking.

Even if I had self-voted, self-votes are anti-town.

Huge difference between being anti-town, and not town. From memory I can link many games all where selfvoters are town. I have zero games from memory where scum selfvoted.

@Zab

Why did you not answer Ben when he asked what you meant by "playing high" and what did you mean?

@ZABRIEL

I am still actually curious about this ^^ and its odd that you seem to miss many questions directed at you. What is your method when reading the thread? I know that sounds odd, just give me the gist. For example if I'm behind I'll skim from my phone or a computer that isn't my main. This will give me a general idea of the game progress. Than I might if I only have a little time pick and choose a few things to respond to/comment on that concern primarily myself. THan once I have freetime(like now) I'll do a more thorough read and review/comments/questions.

I dunno, it's early day 1 and people have been going mad over stupid. People have been going apeshit over a claim based on a couple of fanboys bitching about Solid Snake being the most badass badass that ever badassed. And no, I didn't look at the vote count. I was just looking at the pressure in thread. That's what I meant by wagon.

"People" huh? You're obviously reading the game, but you're not keeping track of who is saying what. Which means that you're not actually scum-hunting.

Vote: zabriel

I have a growing feeling that a zabiel lynch will be a constant theme this game. (im out for a bit again)

[Benmage]

@nero, i just noted two possible slips where he indicated more than 1 scum team. interesting shit man.

And this is bad "Look at this nail in the coffin I found" stuff. He didn't slip. He's not saying "there

is

2 scum teams". Furthermore it's not even scummy to postulate about multiple scumteams in a large theme game.

How do you know, why are you answering the question for him? covering for your scum buddy?

Unvote:
Vote: Theadmiral

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Well done.

Owned.

Hey TAMMY! Funny segment. Remember I answered for whomever Jason asked. And you attacked me... shouldn't Jay have attacked me?

[Benmage]

So while we gain a plus with not losing prs unnecessarily... we lose an opportunity to nk scum.

This is a large theme game. You should be surprised if there isn't anymore decently powered town roles.

I believe this is a misunderstanding, as you only quoted a small segment and don't have the full context.

Anywhose, glad to see noone was like zomg Snake must be town, as that is baloney.

Do you want to roleclaim?

Where do you get the idea that I'd want to do this?

@ZABRIEL

So I do think he's town, but his self-vote has nothing to do with the read.

Can you go into further detail on your town read of RC? What comments/ posts/ thoughts of his gave you such a read.

two mafias,

@ZABRIEL

BloodC asked this question ^. I'm curious about what you meant as well.

I haven't answered the getting high question because I feel like it's the kind of thing that takes away from actual discussion since it's not exactly a game question

A simple yes I do would've been much easier, than this description of taking away from the game. AND SINCE you felt the need to initially state that you get high (I guess it has become game relevant). I just wanted to clarify before this became a recurring excuse.

So yes/no?

VOTE: ThAdmiral

*headdesK* its like he wants us to lynch him. Other than responding to things involving his claim. Can anyone say Acos has done anything this game?

[Benmage]

What did you learn from Jason?

I was right. His voted sucked. Moreover he was never really interested in a response from RC regarding the vote because he hasn't yet since pursued the line of questioning.

Why did you never follow up on the subject with PV?

I don't care to atm(or maybe ever).

That last post from IAI sucks dick!!!. I think its a slight scumtell to ISO since you should be reading the whole game instead. + it looks like jumping on the highest wagon instead of trying to find who the scummiest player is 'cause THE WHOLE "CATCHUP" POST IS DEDICATED TO ZAB. I simply do not get a town vibe from this 'cause I think you'd have more to say then just about one person.

I have an incredibly desire to switch gears and kill IAI.

Lets do it.

Vote I am Innocent

[Benmage]

@Ben, Top 4 suspects and why please. Also would like your biggest town reads on record too.

So you basically want me to explain reads on half the playerbase... on page 12, where half the game has less than 10 posts, and 4...4 fucking suspects... yeesh. The uhm... the term "go fuck yourself" comes to mind. Since I am one of the lead contributors, why don't you give 4 suspects with reasoning why, and reasoning for your top town reads.

-In addition, why did you want this out of me specifically?

I'll continue to try to keep up, but until 11/1, I have something in my life that is sucking up most of my time.

Why would you join a game to be v/la for the first two weeks... Mind blowing...

He didn't... And I still want an answer.

Dont tell me...... tell him?

Have you? Reasked it...

[Benmage]

@Thad

I don't really want to vote BC. You previously voted IAI, and he just said he's going to be a useless lurker. Lets get that vote back on IAI.

[Benmage]

Dont tell me...... tell him?

Have you? Reasked it...

Given I have stated I am still waiting for an answer, I think that is me pretty much asking it.

If he fails to 'answer it the way you want' the next time he posts. I suggest large bold caps to get his attention. Just saying your still waiting for an answer might go unseen by someone who in their mind has already answered it. (As I said I think he answered it by referencing something I commented on the issue... you may want to try and be clearer with him)

[Benmage]

Most of 295 just reads fluffy.

@Zoroaster

, I'm assuming you're up to date with the thread now? What's your opinion on IAI?

[Benmage]

@Ben & Nero: You guys think the other is scum? You both have big sticks, put your heads together....if you know what I mean

I was wavering before. I'd say town now.

@Ben
Cyber still looks like shit to me, but it seems like the "coaching" is more AV trying to create a trap. So I'm not entirely sure that Cyber isn't scum, but I feel pretty sure that Cyber and AV don't share an alignment. Given that and the flavor of the game, I was wondering if we might be dealing with mafia/werewolf split

among HP and Metal Gear villains.

Right now it's just speculation and such.

I considered this as well. Multiple scum faction games are called multiball.

[Benmage]

Yo Jay don't hold out on the goodies!

Also 298... zabby's town. Come on over to IAI.

[Benmage]

How bad at mafia would you say you are, Benmage?

Why are you purposely playing bad? Do you actually want us to lynch you?

[Benmage]

And he's been posting much more since he's come under suspicion.

Echoing what Yates said... A billion times I've seen the statement "he's lurking since coming under pressure"...what is this a damned if does damned if he don't?

I realize that the line between sub0optimal town play and scum play can be blurry.

But zabriel is clearly on the scum side of that line.

I don't know how you can make such a declarative statement... You call his play bizzarre. I often can't comprehend the rationale of individuals logic. But more often than not its coming from town. Scum tend to think more, react slower, and appear more levelheaded... I don't get bizzare = scummy. Imo its the opposite.

[Benmage]

Hey TAMMY! Funny segment. Remember I answered for whomever Jason asked. And you attacked me... shouldn't Jay have attacked me?

Hey BENMAGE! Funnier segment. Remember when that's not how that happened? You told Jason his vote was bad and to move it when he was trying to get a read on rc. Then you answered a question I asked to zab when I was trying to get a read and gave him an answer to the question I asked. I asked you why you were defending people before they got a chance to answer for themselves. You said you weren't doing that, and I pointed out that yes you had twice now...once to Jason and once to me.

Its disappointing that you drew a scum PM this game. I like Tammy town (I don't even think you like you as scum). You should likely NK me tonight.

[Benmage]

Here's a rough reads list I stuck in my drafts the other day:

Town:
Benmage

Prob town:
zabriel
jasonT1981
Zoroaster
Kise
Acosmist
Nero Cain
rapidcanyon


Undecided:
Kublai Khan
BloodCovenant
PeregrineV
ThAdmiral

N/A
Shahrizai
Cybertronix
snifit
Amrun

Probably scum:
Yates
I Am Innocent
Melmond
Tammy

I'm down to lynch anyone in the probably scum.

[Benmage]

I'm also a bit suspect at your reaction to IaI's request for reads.

4 suspects.. with reasoning...

4

... from a player who is part of the problem. The problem which I stated in my response is that too many players contribution has been so minimal a read or an attempt at explaining a read is nonexistent or waste of trying to force something that cannot yet be.

Tammy give me 4 of your top suspects with reasoning why, and say 2 top town reads with reasoning why.

[Benmage]

^I really dont even care if you answer that... its just ridiculous. You can iso me for reads and contribution. You want me to list my current suspects sure... But WITH REASONING. *insertmiddlefinger*

The people I usually hound for reads are the ones not giving them. THE NONcontributors... and the max I've ever asked for is 3. I think asking more forces stretching or shit responses like 'gut'.

[Benmage]

Thoughts leaving the game.
-Played with Benmage once, he was a prick in that game too, but he never backed down like he did when others told him to calm down. Was town that game, which makes me wonder about this one.

-Ben said he has never seen scum self vote and that was a town tell, I find that interesting as the game we played I voted town and he continued to push me the whole game. Interesting change of philosophy that I couldn't help but noted.

Before you go can you remind me what game this was?

Where have I backed down?? w/e...

[Benmage]

Oh I found it^.

It was Zachs mountainous game,

from 2 years ago.

So lets consider it part of the process of me developing said philosophy. Yeesh. (nor am I saying its absolute... IM SURE someone could find a game of scum selfvoting(outside of hammers))

[Benmage]

I'm pretty sure I've stressed it was the reasoning thing several times that was my primary concern. Also that I am a lead contributor, and he's done nothing.. so why single me out, was secondary. 3rd I'd imagine asking it again with the state of the game, with several barely involved.

[Benmage]

Ehh maybe I didn't hammer it. But yes, my main beef was the request for reasoning.

[Benmage]

unvote vote Melmond

[Benmage]

I never said his play was bizarre. Where'd you get that?

Here:

* His position on Acosmist's claim was a bizarre dance.

Wow guys... game spurred with AP, gonna take a little time to read through the new material.

[Benmage]

I haven't read much, mainly because I'm too lazy to sit down and read this last few pages.

From what I've skimmed... AP looks like inexperienced town.

Melmond lynch is where its at!

[Benmage]

I concur with Nero. Amrun lurk is a bigggg scumtell. I'd be willing to string that slot up.

[Benmage]

Oh wow.. Myb.. yeah still havent read much since AP's induction... this weekend will be busy too i.e. Halloween. Stay tuned.

[Benmage]

We need blood already. I don't like excessively long D1's. (Night'll give me time to readup)

Myko, you're town because noone replaces out as scum the way your slot did. Welcome to party.

[Benmage]

unvote vote Acosmist

I'm taking him up on his offer. Dudes does shit, I don't want him in lylo(but he wont be nk'd catch 22)... he's proven himself scummy enough.

[Benmage]

^Yeah Melmonds scum for post just enough to fly under the radar (till atleast the wagon started on him)

[Benmage]

^Long later days yes. Has today been short??? FUCK NO.

In fact it is agreed by many in MD discussion that long DAYONES are bad. Ask Vi. And since we are still quite a process from a lynch. Even making a statement to wrap things up usually means 10 more pages.

[Benmage]

Yeah NC the wagon I was on and really helped launch too.

But I read some of Acos last posts... daring us to lynch him.

DO YOU WANT A PGO IN LYLO?? I don't... So lets give him his wish and end him.

[Benmage]

Direction is key.

And as AP said. Long days = disinterest. Disinterest = apathetic town. Apathetic town = easy scum win.

This days info is good. Future days yield more analysis than D1. We need flips.

[Benmage]

Meh a weak early game read. HES DONE shit since... Thats his "play" being terrible.... I'll lynch melmond if you can get it close enough.

[Benmage]

but what does seem rather odd is he's "like lets end the day but I'm going to vote someone who isn't going to get lynched while calling one of the leading wagons scum."

I agree with this. It's very fucking odd behavior.

Did you opt not to read the segment of me being fine to aide lynching melmond, once he gets closer??

Also, say Acos never claimed PGO, what would your read on him be?

[Benmage]

@Acos, how did my commentary affect you being away?

You made a blank statement to lynch you. I took you up on that. You being V/La had nothing to do with it.

Try paying attention. You (being yourplay) FUCKIN BLOWS this game, and everyone sees it.

Your curious how you almost got lynched in past games as a BP, or as a COP??? Well if its a reflection of this game, the answer is YOU FUCKING SUCK.

[Benmage]

AP,

if Acos had not claimed PGO, what would be your read on him?

[Benmage]

^And why did you switch off of Melmond?

[Benmage]

unvote vote Melmond

BLOOD

[Benmage]

PoE + Was flying under radar. And this day needs to end, but AP isn't scum. And people are dumb with Acos.

[Benmage]

I have no power as I live on long island NY... so yeah bare with be the next few days, also limited car charge time for phone as I burrow.

[Benmage]

We can lynch the pgo thats cool.

Yates I think... and definitely Tammy work.

No kill, guess I was doctored cool! Do it again.

No multiball aye?

[Benmage]

Sup have a little time.

I'm kinda off Yates.

Down for snifit.

Or confirmedscum Tammy ....

vote snifit

[Benmage]

Gonna see if I can find a laptop to tether.

[Benmage]

MWAHAHAH rooted phone + tether = success.

@Snifit. Meh... more odd that he thinks Nero is a good scumhunter.

[Benmage]

Mastin, I have no interest in lynching Kise today.

[Benmage]

^Odd that mastin would sheep nero.

Hold on fixing reads.

[Benmage]

Here's a rough reads list I stuck in my drafts the other day:

Town:
Benmage

Prob town:
zabriel
jasonT1981
Zoroaster
Kise
Acosmist
Nero Cain
rapidcanyon


Undecided:
Kublai Khan
BloodCovenant
PeregrineV
ThAdmiral

N/A
Shahrizai
Cybertronix
snifit
Amrun

Probably scum:
Yates
I Am Innocent
Melmond
Tammy

I'm down to lynch anyone in the probably scum.

Lets edit this:


Town:
Benmage

Prob town:
Shahrizai/Myko
zabriel
jasonT1981
Zoroaster
Kise
Nero Cain
rapidcanyon
Yates
snifit
IAI/AP

Undecided:
Kublai Khan
PeregrineV


Probably scum:
BC
Thadmiral
Amrun/pidgey
Acosmist

Scum:
Tammy

Dead:
AV --scum
Melmond --Town

[Benmage]

more odd that he thinks Nero is a good scumhunter.

The reason Nero offered to hydra with me before is that his scumdar's better than mine, but his power of persuasion is weaker than mine. Nero's the best person in this playerlist at catching scum; I've yet to see him in a game where this hasn't proven true. Unfortunately, he's one of the weaker players when it comes to convincing others he's right. So in that regard, and in that regard only, is he not a good scumhunter.

(STOP NINJA'ING ME, PEOPLE!)

Convincing people is the most important aspect of scumhunting. That said, my experience with him, I have not seen him well at all. You can look at the game by CMAR which just got abandoned... He was dreadful... as I said, my experience.

unvote vote Tammy

No longer interested in snifit... Will lynch off the probscum list.

[Benmage]

Oh thats weird guess i didn't replace cyber after erasing .But Cyber/You should be in the probtown list.

[Benmage]

^Whose that question directed to?

Anyways the answer is because I thought he was scummier than he is + a plausible lynch.

But relooking he isn't as scummy as I think.

So I am voting confirmedscum Tammy. But I'm okay with lynching anyone in my probscum list, as one cannot always get the lynch they'd like.

[Benmage]

KK

what is your read on Tammy anyways?

[Benmage]

Why is Tammy scum? I really don't feel one way or the other abut her.

I don't have the time to go into this.

Shouldn't her not being a shinning beacon of townliness have been telling enough??

BTW, I think she should claim who messaged her... What was the message again? Did we get that yet?

[Benmage]

I've been away from the game for sometime. Even before night/my power problems I had fallen behind some pages. Now and probably for the next few days I'll have limited time.

My read on snifit I don't think was always very strong either way. He was lurky if I recall correctly, and so I hopped onto the moving train.

Come now, because Mastin unvoted, I'd jump ship . I hopped off because I read the post/reply to mastin right above mastins unvote where snifit says he didn't even want to join the game and told mastin to fuck off.

It read genuine.

[Benmage]

Benmage lol cool man why am i prob scum how did you get that awesome read?

The awesome read came from you awesome play, or lack thereof.

Compounded by your "cutesy" entry/play thus far. I've seen scum plenty of times not know how to correctly implant themselves into a game... and the "cutesy" style emerges.

@Kise

your read on Tammy please?

@Tammy

your read on Acos, and would it be different if he never claimed PGO?

[Benmage]

Still using a phone, albeit tethered atm. zzzzzzzzz

[Benmage]

Yates

what do you think of myko's alignment/his slots exit post.

[Benmage]

I don't think KK would interact that way with scumTammy. So KK should be probtown.

[Benmage]

I'm with KK here.

Tammy gets NK(by the vig or SK or something other than scum, as she is scum)

Then the info is lost, no?

I don't get the reason not to out, both the message and the messenger. Otherwise wtf did Tammy out it anyways?

pedit:Tammy could easily say it was cop-related info

[Benmage]

Also in what KK just quoted.

Tammy says the message was or resulted in the lack of a NK...?!??!? How was this not readdressed????

How did the message = no NK?????

OUT the scum who sent the message than???

Seems like to much smoke bullshit.... have all the information outted I say.

[Benmage]

Also, and I'm not really sure how to handle this, but I received a message last night. I had this role once before and was told the basic purpose of it was to confirm that role and

that someone took that action,

instead of killing

I guess, that night.

Anyway, I dont know if i sould have kept that to myself, but ill be able to verify the sender if and when its necessary. For the last two parts, I feel the same and yes.

[Benmage]

Pidgey, first lets go over my quick synopsis of you.
-You yield you haven't been involved in the game, therefore your contribution is lacking.
-I list you in my probscum list.
--You ask why?
---I respond.
End. Thats it. There was no crusade against you. I'm not voting you. You seem to be overreacting to minimal pressure that you yourself yield are guilty of.

Not really liking benmage at all since he is clinging to a so easy target as myself, I mean how in the fuck can he have a scumread on me lol. Amrun was pretty much not a big factor either. Actually im voting this person for now i was waiting to catch up completely but this is a good old vote for now!

Tammy is such a hard player to read, she posts a lot of walls that I mostly skim. I like that she is going against benmage, who I immediatly disliked since before i reread because he had me as scum read because I exist in the game, so for now Im thinking she might be one of our good town members.

Ughhh pidgey there's so much fail in the basic mafia gameplay here.

You basically just said you found me scummy for calling you scum and you found Tammy town for calling you town.

Committing two major mafia fallacies. A you pretty much did the epitome of an omgus to me. Moreover you fell in to the easy trap of scum buddying town so that town are less likely to call out someone calling them town.

That said the manner of your last posts does read better.
-Overreaction people right off a scum, I'm disagreeing here.
-The buddying trap...zzzzzzz, you need to step back and go from an unbiased perspective (its tough)

[Benmage]

Ya, Tammy took that back and said it was just poor phrasing. I do not understand how Tammy is undesirable #1, yet you apparently don't care to read her posts.

She took that back ... awesome. Look its not that I'm not reading. I JUST GOT POWER BACK, I DONT HAVE INTERNET... wtf. I'm doing the best I can.

Anyways if she took it back, all the more reason to put fourth all the information.

How do you not see it as scum backtracking?

[Benmage]

AP

who are your top 3 suspects?

[Benmage]

Meh, whatever.

The point is which I think you agree... there's NO reason not to out the message..

and really, little reason not to out the messanger.

[Benmage]

AP your obvtown. But I don't like your scum suspects. Kise-probtown. Jay-slighttown. RC, being replaced.

ZZZZzzz we have 3 people being replaced. Several on V/La, and a few replacements still catching up. All = pain for town.

[Benmage]

Also for those who wanted scrutingy of Tammy, look at Thad's post:
post 1140


I would stress the point 'all my motives are town, how can't you see that'... with the final comment Thad highlights.

***The last one is so bad, it reads like daring me to claim cop with a guilty on her. I did this as scum in Scummies Winvitational where Faradaytown wasn't explaining a read on a scum buddy of mine. I was trying to see if he had a cop guilty.

conc: MOAR TAMMY VOTES.

[Benmage]

^
^^
Mastin shouldn't have replaced into additional games if he isn't giving the games he is in justice.
-Yates I don't know if your plagued by the same issue...
but my point again, why join more games if you can't play the games your in effectively.

That's about it.

@Zoro

You should vote Tammy. I'm sure you have a bunch of reading todo. Look at my post above your last one to see my comments and a link to ThAds points against Tammy.

[Benmage]

why join more games if you can't play the games your in effectively.

Do you feel like I'm not playing this game effectively?

The ultimate judge there would likely be yourself.

I've been too disconnected from this game to even give that an accurate answer. I'd like to say yes, you have. But have you done the best you can? I don't know.

[Benmage]

^I didnt mean my previous statement as an attack on you Yates...more a rant against all people who overjoin games/don't give them 100% of their ability/replace out only to join new games etc etc... that type of person that doesn't recognize their commitment to the game the mod and others playing... well yeah.

[Benmage]

^Meh, than I don't think >24hrs of subpar activity requires pre-excuses.

@Yates

can you go into further detail why you didn't like ThAds case, primarily the two points I rehighlighted in I believe post 1198

[Benmage]

I'll take an incoherent mastin over a 'quasi coherent one' ...

Mastin,

take a gander at the Tammy points. Look at even AP's statement that Tammys view on suspects and what I would say as scumhunting is altogether suspect. But she was relishing the idea to dismiss whatever reasoning I had for calling her scum. As in shes more interested in proving my points wrong, than actually scumhunting.

Thats a strong scumtell I've seen before (I forget if I saw MoI or Glork referencing it).. but yeah essentially just trying to find faults in other peoples arguments is an easier veil for scum to hide behind than to put fourth actual scumhunting(because theyre scum!)

[Benmage]

Fish fish fishity fish...Guess Tammyscum didn't submit last nights NK:

Best I think is that you guarded me or something last night and you think the missing kill is my fault,

WHICH IT WASN'T.

The thing is I don't really know what to do with your alignment with it, because if you're mafia, you would know I'm not one of your partners so I can't see how you would build such a case. But, I can't see it coming from town either. Makes things much more difficult when deciding what my read is on you.

Anyone elses head explode reading this?

-I think its easier to call this uhm.. fencesitting. More Tammy votes.

And no, I'm not outing the message. I don't even care if I get lynched for not doing it, ya'll can yell at me for playing against my wincon or having a fucked up sense of right and wrong all you want after game, but I'm still not going to do it.. The message isn't game breaking. It doesn't have information, just one person's thoughts. And this person seemed to think that his thoughts could get him night killed so he sent it to me. The thoughts read genuine paranoia and TOWN to me, and even though I know that this role isn't alignment dependent they seem to think it does.

So the information gave you a town read on said person.
-God forbid the rest of us get town reads on said person...that would be bad for you/the scum.

Gotchya, String tammy up already.

[Benmage]

Tammy, scum reads?

Do you have any?

No, I have no scum reads at all. Did you miss when I said I needed to review some things. I think that Blood Covenent is scum and it's frustrating that he replaced out before I could interact with him some more. That "oh I forgot about this game" four minutes after the day opened is eh.

I did have a scum read on snifit, but his recent posts today feel genuine and what I thought I saw yesterday, with him avoiding the Melmond wagon because they were partners was obviously wrong, so I need to read back through him.

I also had a scum read on Peregrine after yesterday's certainty that Melmond was town and was going to suspect everyone who voted him. I thought it read as intense posturing because I couldn't see how he could be so certain that Melmond was innocent, especially after he said that it wasn't a bad lynch. But his explanation today makes sense. It's a little out there, but I wouldn't expect scum to come up with that reasoning.

After Thad's "case" on me I'm leaning scum on him. And that's not just OMGUS, but that it's such a blatantly fake case I can't see it coming from town. Well not town that demonstrates an understanding of the game like he does.

So we have a lot off fluff to say:
-BC
-wavering PV
-wavering Snifit
-Maybe ThAD now..

@Tammy,

what about BC do you find suspicious?

[Benmage]

NC, PoE. But anyways I don't care to argue outting said person. They can claim on their own.

The message is what I wanted... but again I feel like the whole message mailman thing is taking away too much spotlight off Tammy. People might have differing views on the mailmain/message... so I think its a waste to drag out that discussion much further.

What we need to do is string up Tammy.

@Mastin:

In regards to Kise I'd say it would be gut. Looking in back at his posts I think his logic has been valid. His attacks sounds, despite that I disagree with his suspects. He's someone I'd certainly want to keep an eye on, and someone who I don't think will escape further scrutiny. But to be todays lynch. That I am against. I also think a wagon of 4 is too few to declare scum on or off... That said refer to my list as its mainly unchanged except KK is probtown.

[Benmage]

@Tammy

why is BC scum?

[Benmage]

@Tammy well we can now add deflection to list. TY.

So we have:
-lack of scumhunting/case attacking
-rolefishing
-fencesitting
-and now deflection
kudos...*sneak preview....for next scumtell: AtE*

[Benmage]

Fuckit I'm the Cop.

Tammy's guilty.

Thats why I am only listed as town on my list, and tammy is the only one listed as scum.

Go.

[Benmage]

Ben, are you for real?

Yep.

I'm Severus Snape, and I use veritaserum.

[Benmage]

I can bold who I want to vig in thread or email it and it will happen.

Well I guess it is multiball, or I caught the SK... either way Tammy hangs.

[Benmage]

REAL DAYVIG

don't counterclaim tammy shes caught scum outting more PRS.

[Benmage]

If we think it's scum, tammy should claim this.

lol @ fencesitting on a fishing pole.

Completely, yes. That's what it depends on though.


Pidgey doesn't get more obvious then this. Vigs don't counterclaim. They shoot. Hence you don't lynch a claimed vig. Ever.

Not when a cop has a guilty on said claiming vig.


@MASTIN HELL NO...vig BC aye?? Infact why hasn't Tammy?? She sure fired quickly yesterday... what gave AV away?

[Benmage]

Tammy should shoot BC.

TAMMY SHOOTING BC DOESNT NEGATE THAT I HAVE A GUILTY ON HER.

If I was mafiacop, Id NK her tonight, duh.
If I was town I wouldnt fakeclaimcop and risk being counterclaimed by the real cop.

Hence I am town and the cop, AND TAMMY HANGS... god how is this hard to understand?

[Benmage]

I already claimed Snape,

minus 10 points to gryfandor, 20 to slytheran.

[Benmage]

Why hasn't Tammy shot BC yet?

And bolded it inthread?

[Benmage]

Fencesitting on mevtammy would be a bad idea for scum pidgey, they'd know Im telling the truth and that her ship is quikly sinking... they'd be bussing faster than usain bolt.... this is back to me not liking your basic mafia strategy.

[Benmage]

Because I don't know what to do. I wanted to take out a strong scum read of mine that I thought would be difficult to get lynched. Which is one reason why I took out Avox. I kind of want to take out Thad as I think he might be scum.

In this post we discover that BC's slot is scum.

Tammy shoot BC.

[Benmage]

Mykonian- But wouldnt town vigs crumb something? You know, in case THEY ARE ABOUT TO BE LYNCHED LIKE RIGHT NOW.
Anyway that's still a fucking dumb reason to want me dead but nice tunneling there brah

Because you don't lynch them. That's kind of the point. If she's scum, she gets shot by the real vig. If she's town, she doesn't get shot.

And I'm perfectly happy to wait for this situation to resolve itself. If I was wrong about benmage, I don't have to tunnel so hard.

It is rather advisable to unvote though. You don't want to lynch a claimed vig, really. If she's scum, she'll get shot. So don't be silly, as you can only mislynch her.

Okay, and if shes the SK??

You don't not lynch someone when a cop claims a guilty.

[Benmage]

How does that indicate that BC's slot is scum. He was the one I was planning to shoot today until Thad wrote his crap case. Come on read that. Tell me that comes from town. Shake off your tunnel vision from me and read that objectively.

WHY THE FUCK HAVENT YOU SHOT YET EVEN ON THAD AND GONE HAHA FUCK U ALL IM TOWN.

Cause you're lying scum.

And BC's slot will be lynched tomorrow, you can backtalk all you want.

[Benmage]

I'm not lynching anyone. Just sitting and waiting.

And after she shoots, then what?

[Benmage]

since when do cops get a guilty on SK's btw?

When SK's aren't invimmune. They don't have to be.

ALSO TAMMY MUST DO THIS INTHREAD

.. could be a partners ability.

[Benmage]

Because I actually care about who gets shot. I'm not interested in shooting town. I'm not lying.

Shoot BC than and save the mod finding a replacement......

We're all waiting on you to shoot. The game is at an impasse... so lets go.

[Benmage]

What's with the hurry Ben

Im scum fakeclaiming....




What epiphany is she waiting on? We're all waiting on her to shoot. Lets start the betting it never happens.

[Benmage]

Because I actually care about who gets shot. I'm not interested in shooting town. I'm not lying.

Is there a way for a cop to get a guilty on you?

If not, shoot benmage. If there is, he might be town, and you can shoot whoever you please. So unless you want to claim miller now, you should shoot benmage or get shot

How are you so bad?

Technically there's like a 0.000000000001% chance a framer landed correctly. But nevertheless optimal strategy is to have her shoot, and obviously not the unCC'd cop who claimed D2 with little to no threat on himself.

[Benmage]

I dont think Benmage, if scum, would actually just go and claim COP as SCUM when its D2 and there were no NKs. Seems like a bad trade off for scum, even if he was a goon.

I dunno. I probably wouldnt shoot Benmage. As much as it would be cool for me if he was scum.

He could claim insanity and move on. Because nobody would actually fakeclaim day 2, right?

And than I would be declaring people from here on out.. and arguing as to why I wasnt NK'd.

And Snape, his truth serum... a stretch for flavor to be insane.

[Benmage]

Who happens to have a guilty on her. That's kind of the crux.

And I don't know. I'm a bad boy I guess. I'm enjoying this.

Yeah the cops claiming a guilty, and you're telling her to shoot the cop... If your town it will be tough to keep you off the gallows with logic that sound. Keep it up.

[Benmage]

Just saying that if tammy was framed then flavorwise it wouldnt make sense for veritasium to fail since you have to say the complete truth lol

"Mafia Logic Failure"

pedit- I dunno that could still be bad since as scum posing as a proved insane cop you'd still have to throw innocents around unless you claim paranoid

Yeah like I said... it isnt the case here.

Tammy shot AV so quickly, or early game nothing. But it taking her time here.... while the game literally can not go further... totally protown.

[Benmage]

DAMMIT. This was a lot easier yesterday when I just went with what I wanted to do based on gut.

Gut was good enough yesterday..but now... GODFORBID YOU MISS!!!!

SHoot BC already.

[Benmage]

Who happens to have a guilty on her. That's kind of the crux.

And I don't know. I'm a bad boy I guess. I'm enjoying this.

Yeah the cops claiming a guilty, and you're telling her to shoot the cop... If your town it will be tough to keep you off the gallows with logic that sound. Keep it up.

I will You just don't want to die.

Yeah how odd that I dont want the town cop to die... crazyness.

[Benmage]

I had a strong quick read on AV yesterday. Today, I'm trying to decide between BC and Thad or if anyone else has any suggestions I'll take them into consideration.

BC. Help the mod..

[Benmage]

Yep, plus mafia RB is already down... Two teams/You SK... possible.

But guilty = hanging period.

[Benmage]

I mean, people have to appreciate this whole dance, right? I can't be the only one.

Its a waste of time, thats adding massive unneccessary fluff to the game.

Im going to the gym. Lynch the scum.

[Benmage]

Its very funny that Tammy emailed pappums. And bolded Dayvig. As the kill lolllllll

Gj shooting town.

Remember, BC is scum too.

[Benmage]

This is where I say I told you so.

So lets lynch the Guy with he guilty... and bcs slot tomorrow.

[Benmage]

Its so fucking simple. If Tammy thought I was lying she would have shot me.

She didn't.

Hence she is scum.

Fuckina.

[Benmage]

Yates noone here would ever not shoot someone calling them guilty if they had a town pm and the ability to shoot. PERIOD!

Moreover it could be that scum day shoot/multiball here... skdaykill...

The beat case scenario for Tammy after getting a guilty would be to stall a days lynch. Not happening. She dies today, all info is available and we move on.

She would have shot me if she was town, PERIOD.

Ideally I can live. Mafia RB is dead, nokill last night if I am docd and not RB good good good.

[Benmage]

People are fucking dumb saying they don't bye sk or multiscum or whatever daykill scum team....

Yet don't give an ALTERNATIVE TO A FUCKIN GUILTY.

Mastin and Yates, holy shit you two are blowing hard.

WHATEVER SHE IS SHE ISNT TOWN ALIGNED. THEREFORW EVERYTHING SHE SAYS IS A LIE TO PURSUE HER WIN Condition..... because if I was scum and a sk just did what town wanted I'd seek a siteban for NOT PLAYIN TO WIN. So there is no pet sk.

You lynch the person with the guilty you fucking scrubs.

[Benmage]

What KK said, Yates your a fuckibg idiot.

What happens tomorrow when she rolls in with a fuckit mentality and shoots idno ... me the cop.

What gets us to lylo the quickest? Mislynhes and miskills... an opportunity to potentially removing a NONtown killing entity is the only intelligent move.

[Benmage]

Her shots have not been good she got lucky with AV. Thad was obviously town.

You can't trust her shot.

Period.

[Benmage]

Why get stuck in an oh shit moment down the road... when we can afford the lynch here you take it.


Not play guess when lylo is.

[Benmage]

She did the pick the shot.

You can't trust her to play dayvig when everyone's like yah yah she's the sk.

She shoots the cop, gives some baloney I thought he was mafiacop... so she can pretend to be ptw... but its really just a defeastist shot... because she has no chance of winning.

And your cool to risk that.

Fucking idiots

[Benmage]

How about she shoots Acosmist then?

Bagillion dollars says she shoots be before that.

Any takers?

[Benmage]

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

[Benmage]

:/

I dunno. Not to be an ass, but I think you are not seeing clearly since you had to out yourself to get her and you want her dead now. I mean thats unfortunate, but I do think she will be protown if alive for now.

Being protown is playing agaisnt her win condition.

[Benmage]

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

It is because she is a daykiller that we must kill her.

Cap it all you want. Scum want her dead. Town want her dead more. Guaranteed.

[Benmage]

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

PUT IT THIS WAY

Town is in a powerful position. Blocked nk equals I can be protected tonight. No Mafia RB means I get a result.

Why risk such a powerful combo and not lynch a guaranteed nontown player.

Who could yield ample info about the setup.

[Benmage]

Mastin there's no reason to risk the powerful position town is in.

I already said an alibi she could use. She's damned anyways.

No reason for the risk. Wake the fuck up.

[Benmage]

ok

so tomorrow what we need to do is lynch BloodCovenent

Yes, after we lynch Tammy again.

Who I will repeat is the best lynch FOR THE TOWN.

[Benmage]

Flat out guilty and flavor suggests sane.

Stop overthinking.

Scum leads right now are not great.

She could be a second scumteam member.

Best option for town THAT ELIMINATES FUTURE RISK... is lynching Tammy now.... great you lynch her after she shoots me.... too fucking late than.

[Benmage]

The SK will suicide? Interesting strat

She will obviously not suicide.

Sk is likely BP.

Scum will not kill her, have no reason too.

Again we lynch her. Simple.

[Benmage]

Ah right dayKILL(see the mods note) not DAYVIG that Tammy pretended to do reset my vote on her.

Vote Tammy

[Benmage]

Mastin you're incredibly anti-town right now.

You won't get majority on anyone else, beacuse I for one, and I'm sure others aren't lynching OUTSIDE OF TAMMY.

So stop dragging out the enevitable.

Put this into a Worth Persperctive.

Killing Tammy:
-antitown dead, helps reveal setup info check check
--and eliminate future miskills check
-day isn't dragged out check
-ensures no foul play, and cop remains alive check

Not Killing Tammy:
-requires us to kill her at a later (maybe less fortunate position) This can be a minus or a check... we can't predict the future
-Allows her to free fire:
-- killing scum check
-- killing town minus
-- killing town PRS minus minus

You're playing too idealistic keeping her alive.

We don't need it, bottomline. No reason to risk her living.

When would be the ideal time to lynch her?? As scum won't NK her, probably can't.

[Benmage]

Christ, Jason. Tammy IS the guilty result.

I think it's clear she's the SK. Leaving her alive is a huge mistake. Town is in a great position, and leaving the SK alive will only erode that. She shot scum--that's gravy. Let's lynch her, a

nd use our huge number of lynches to our advantage.

This

[Benmage]

My problem with the cunning plan is not the obvious one.

It's the fact that we can definitely lynch scum now or maybe lynch scum now.

Let's just do the certain scum today.

Yeah the logic is pretty simple.

God AP, am I going to have to fashion another dunce cap for you?
You're already getting a Special Purple Ribbon.

But Yates and Mastin have ensured they'll be receiving dunce caps.

[Benmage]

Aco, bluntly, I think you're town, but if you continue pushing this lynch, I'm policy-lynching you tomorrow for killing the one person who can safely target you using this logic.

Good luck with that. Getting bored with isolated people thinking they can lynch anyone for anything. Let me know when one vote is a majority and I'll be sure to be appropriately scared of you.

Mastin is a fucking retard if he thinks an SK will suicide.

[Benmage]

Ben, is Yates town? Are you sure? Because I thought he had a cunning plan, but now I'm thinking he wants me gone and hopes the SK didn't read carefully.

Same with mastin.

I think they're both town.. but the magnitude of derpness coming from the to is so great that they just might be scum.

[Benmage]

Aco, bluntly, I think you're town, but if you continue pushing this lynch, I'm policy-lynching you tomorrow for killing the one person who can safely target you using this logic.

Good luck with that. Getting bored with isolated people thinking they can lynch anyone for anything. Let me know when one vote is a majority and I'll be sure to be appropriately scared of you.

Mastin is a fucking retard if he thinks an SK will suicide.

Yates seemed to think he would. She. Whatever the SK is.

I.E. auto-losing themselves the game.... IE NOT PLAYING TO WIN

People arguing against lynching Tammy are dumb... Period.

[Benmage]

You're giving her exactly what she wants.

And YOU are giving THE SCUM exactly what THEY want.

Fuck her, fuck the scum.

ITS WHAT THE TOWN WANTS.

[Benmage]

Ben, is Yates town? Are you sure? Because I thought he had a cunning plan, but now I'm thinking he wants me gone and hopes the SK didn't read carefully.

Same with mastin.

I think they're both town.. but the magnitude of derpness coming from the to is so great that they just might be scum.

He did lie about my ability. Seemed to want to keep the SK alive so she could die killing me tomorrow.

She'll never do that see previous post. I.E. he's being really derpy to even suggest otherwise.

[Benmage]

^Moreover keep backing her into the corner..

SHOOT THE PGO!
Shoot the PGO or BE lynCHED!
SHOOT SHOTO SHOOT!!!

*Ah fuckit, shoots BenmageCop*

GG...

Wtf are you expecting is going to happen.. yeeesh.

DERPS

[Benmage]

I have to catch up on every thing since Monday, but just caught Benmages last post.

Why would I shoot you benmage? If I wanted to shoot you, I'd have done it already. What are you going to do? Investigate me again? You know what you should, maybe you'll get the correct result this time.

Tammy an SK in your shoes has to say what you just said.

So forgive me while I continue to laugh at you.

[Benmage]

^Moreover if you thought I was lying you would have shot me... so getf'd.

[Benmage]

@Mastin

since Tammy has to play under the charade that she's innocent town vig. She has an easy excuse to shoot me for "fake-claiming".

Again why risk this.

[Benmage]

So Tammy is majority asks you to shoot Acosmist, you will agree to this?

[Benmage]

Ah right dayKILL(see the mods note) not DAYVIG that Tammy pretended to do reset my vote on her.

Easily verifiable:

@Mod - Would a Day Vig victim be reported as a Day Kill?

Yates you still think she's a Day Vig?

[Benmage]

Lets shoot Yates and Mastin.

[Benmage]

Yates you still think she's a Day Vig?

I do. I agree with Mastin in that I think she has made good shots. She had a chance to shoot you and didn't. I'd like for the Mod to answer my question because you do bring up another good point [re: flavor] but I remain unconvinced.

Asking the mod is stupid.

The mod will respond hypothetically.

If hypothetically a dayvig existed in the game it would be called a daykill..
Same is hypothetically a daysk existed in the game it would be called a daykill...

So you achieved nothing for us.

Except illustrating that Tammy lied.

[Benmage]

I'm not shooting Zabriel/Nero/Acosmist. I have town reads on both Zabriel and Nero. And well, I'm not suicidal. Yeah, I know I'm not living long, but still. That would be a waste.

Vote: Tammy

I'm kinda with Benmage now. Tammy probably won't play ball.

Playing ball is against her WC.

She won't shoot the quasi PGO.

Back her into a corner enough, and she says fuckit and shoots me.

Why risk it. The benefits gained by keeping her alive are nowhere near worth the risk.

[Benmage]

I don't see him as scum advocating me staying alive if he believes I'm the serial killer, especially when I had raised minor suspicion of him before.

Hate to burst your bubble for thinking I'm town (again ), but honestly, lynching Tammy is so freakin' stupid to do as town that I'd probably do it as scum anyway, for specifically this reason, to generate towncred and say, "I told you so", that it was a bad idea.

MASTIN she has to say yes here, or we lynch her. I.E she must say yes to follow her WC.

Tomorrow she'll come up with a reason not to. IE FOLLOWING HER WC.

You can't get an SK to SUICIDE BECAUSE ITS AGAINST HER WC.

So if you think shes an SK stop being so fucking dumb.

[Benmage]

If hypothetically a dayvig existed in the game it would be called a daykill..
Same is hypothetically a daysk existed in the game it would be called a daykill...

You have two things right now making you think she is scum, right? You have the investigation result. Granted, that's a very strong indication of alignment. BUT, we know there are ways of receiving false results. The second point you just stated is that despite the fact she said "dayvig" in her post [would that even set off a kill for an SK?], the mod called it a "daykill." If he can verify that a dayvig would be expressed as a daykill that removes an argument.

In writing this, I am reminded that I have to check her claim again because she obviously didn't post her last kill in thread.

She faked the dayvig claim...

A dayvig in thread likely would say daykill...

She bolded dayvig to look good. Its all an illusion and the mod won't be able to clarify it.

[Benmage]

If hypothetically a dayvig existed in the game it would be called a daykill..
Same is hypothetically a daysk existed in the game it would be called a daykill...

In writing this, I am reminded that I have to check her claim again because she obviously didn't post her last kill in thread.

Exactly the bolded is an illusion.

How many dayvigs have the option?

[Benmage]

YATES

LOOK AT THIS:

I don't see him as scum advocating me staying alive if he believes I'm the serial killer, especially when I had raised minor suspicion of him before.

Hate to burst your bubble for thinking I'm town (again ), but honestly, lynching Tammy is so freakin' stupid to do as town that I'd probably do it as scum anyway, for specifically this reason, to generate towncred and say, "I told you so", that it was a bad idea.

MASTIN she has to say yes here, or we lynch her. I.E she must say yes to follow her WC.

Tomorrow she'll come up with a reason not to. IE FOLLOWING HER WC.

You can't get an SK to SUICIDE BECAUSE ITS AGAINST HER WC.

So if you think shes an SK stop being so fucking dumb.

[Benmage]

^I.e. she will says yes today, and make an excuse tomorrow... otherwise she's going against her own WC, and breaking site rules.

[Benmage]

Her shots have not been good she got lucky with AV. Thad was obviously town.

You can't trust her shot.

Period.

I had a scum read on AV...and I was right. Thad wasn't obviously town. I had a scum read. I was wrong.

Those are your words that you have to say.

I don't believe them.

Not Ms. "I had a gut read" I took the shot.
with Ms. "I have bad reads early game" + Ms. "Now I'm torn on BC, ahh *insert shitty excuse*" shoot ThAD.

[Benmage]

Tammy also shot ThaD, an opponent to herself, over a replacement.. IE in her best interest to remove a vote against herself.

[Benmage]

Just fucking ------------------[] and lets end this drawn out discussion.

[Benmage]

And @MAstin/others

ThaD was a terrible shot. I don't care that you or a few others may have suspected him. It wasn't greater than 4. You had nowhere near lynch worthy support. And some of those oppossed may have been scum. Whereas I (clearly town) found him town. I think some others did as well... He was town(obv). He's an experienced play who could have been an asset to the town.

VS

BLOODCOVENANT A MUCH MORE UNIVERSALLY ACCEPT SUSPICIOUS SLOT. That was also being replaced.

[Benmage]

Hey sometimes I get good reads early game, most often I don't. In mafia behind the maiden I noted my suspicions of four of the mafia on day one. That was a rare case though.

I've played with AV before. His play looked nothing like town, so yeah, I had a scum read and I was right.

I had a good reason to shoot Thad. You just don't like it.

If Thad wouldn't have written that case that I couldn't imagine coming from town ever,

I would have shot BC.

You have to say this.

I don't believe it.

The case wasn't that bad compared to what gets passed as cases all the time here.

This is such a fabricated overreaction.

[Benmage]

EVERYONE THAT WAS THERE KNEW I WAS THINKING ABOUT SHOOTING THAD. NOT ONE PERSON ARGUED WITH ME ABOUT IT OR TRIED TO PROVE HE WAS TOWN.

I was against it.

Who was for it? Mastin... he's proven real sane ... and a bunch of other useless people not sure where up is from left ( ) (pidgey)

[Benmage]

EVERYONE THAT WAS THERE KNEW I WAS THINKING ABOUT SHOOTING THAD. NOT ONE PERSON ARGUED WITH ME ABOUT IT OR TRIED TO PROVE HE WAS TOWN.

I was against it.

Who was for it? Mastin... he's proven real sane ... and a bunch of other useless people not sure where up is from left ( ) (pidgey)

[Benmage]

Stop calling me a liar when I'm not lying Benmage.

You realize a comment like this actually makes me think you the person Tammy, not the player... is dumb for lack of a better word.

If I called out scum for lying, and they say I'm not lying... well geegolly, of course they'd say that. They have to say that. Their whole game is a lie. So you saying your not lying has zero influence on me. You tammy, the person should know this.

[Benmage]

Also can you answer before i vote ben just to be sure.

Me answer something?

[Benmage]

Are you cop to general scum ben, ormdoes the PM maybe say to a specific faction?

Suggests general.

[Benmage]

Ben stay on the ball here so I know what to do if I get busy or don't want to wade through this terrible stuff

Keep lynching Tammy.

I'm also quite interested (and somewhat confident) to see if I can make it through the night.

[Benmage]

I don't understand why a PGO is also BP apparently ( you are assuming). That doesn't make sense to me.

Isn't that how it works? He kills anyone who targets him?

It depends on the mod and the role.

PGOs kill anyone who targets them.
If that happens first as a repsonse to the targeting, before the effect of the targeter take place, then he would be, in effect, BP.
If the targeting effect affects the PGO, but the targeter also dies, then not BP.

tl/dr

Just got back from gym.

Uhm, Yeah the PGO and Shooter would both die.

[Benmage]

----------------[]

[Benmage]

@PeregrineV: I'm 100% up for leashing a SK... IF Tammy proposes us a clear deal where she shoots only what the town wants and acknowledge that she will get the hammer if she takes any "initiative"

I actually quite like the sound of this.

So please do.

It's not an unreasonable request, Tammy will follow it, so we can lynch someone else.

After she takes initiative its too late. She can't follow what you say. Its a lie. Or she isn't playing to he WC and gets sitebanned.

You're all fucking dumb.

[Benmage]

No the mod didn't tell me who it came from.

Then what was with the whole, I'm not saying who sent it bravado?

I've played multiball where scum gets investigative roles.

I just don't see Benmage!scum claiming to be a cop in a multiball game on day two. He prides himself on being perfect as scum and would believe he would be the team mate most likely to bring his team to victory (most likely); he wouldn't intentionally put himself in danger and weaken the scum team on day two after I dayvigged one of his members on day one.

This is very true.

This game Day is not going anywhere. Tammy has a cop guilty on her. Her death resolves multiball spec.

QFT.

The day is going nowhere.

-----------------------[]

[Benmage]

We need Tammy acknoledging she will follow the town decisions.

It's like people literally ignore basic sense.... I just don't get it anymore.

AN SK LIES TO FULLFILL HER WIN CONDITION OR ISN"T PLAYING TO WIN AND GETS SITE BANNED...

fuckina,.

Changed my mind.

Vote: Acosmist

KK this will never pass.

I regret calling you a good player.

There's that constant stream of self-preservation that'll make the wagon grow. Keep it up.

No, despite an overwhelming amount of retardation this game, majority still has some sense... and won't do this.

Oh hey, It's another patented Acosmist case.

- OMGUS vote
- No other reasoning
- Mentioning day-talk

You have literally done NOTHING else this game. How are you town?

How are you town?

[Benmage]

Zzzzzzzzz. I wil not lynch Acos today.

[Benmage]

Dude, there's a guilty on Tammy. It kind of needs to be done. I agree with lynching the PGO, but I think the better play is hanging the guilty because of the potential for multiball. If Tammy flips SK, great, we have a honest cop. If Tammy flips scum with Psycho Mantis (I forget the player's name) I will be shocked. If Tammy flips scum but not with Psycho Mantis I think that piece of information is 100 times more valuable than a PGO lynch. I think the flavor perfectly allows for multiball. HP-Scum (probably Death Eaters) + Metal Gear Scum (probably bosses).

So vote tammy already???

[Benmage]

Dude, there's a guilty on Tammy. It kind of needs to be done. I agree with lynching the PGO, but I think the better play is hanging the guilty because of the potential for multiball. If Tammy flips SK, great, we have a honest cop. If Tammy flips scum with Psycho Mantis (I forget the player's name) I will be shocked. If Tammy flips scum but not with Psycho Mantis I think that piece of information is 100 times more valuable than a PGO lynch. I think the flavor perfectly allows for multiball. HP-Scum (probably Death Eaters) + Metal Gear Scum (probably bosses).

So vote tammy already???

[Benmage]

I would rather see Pidgey, Zab or Kise hung today.

To be fair, jason, you've got the right idea; I have had scumreads on all of 'em.

However, Aco and Zoro are both scum. Who the rest of the team are can be sorted out on future days. It's probably within those names, and I'd give heavy scrutiny to the Tammy wagon, which is (put bluntly) incredibly scumdriven.

You want to have an leashed SK which scum will influence shots.

Don't speak about scumdriven shit.

Can you stay up for like 72 hours, so you can start thinking clearly.