Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)

[zabriel]

VOTE: Jason

Somebody didn't read the flavor.

[zabriel]

He was pretty quick to make a thing over the claim. That was my basic reason for flagging him. The fact that he didn't read the flavor made the jumping stick out more.

[zabriel]

Kublai Khan isn't voting Jason. He's voting me.

[zabriel]

Oh wow, I forgot to actually turn the page. That might have been a good idea.
.

[zabriel]

I'm willing to believe Acosmist here. Nero's criticism of the jason wagon comes off as a little funny after he just jumped off it.

That being said, it would be way too terribad if he did that as scum, so I'm going to say town here.

[zabriel]

UNVOTE:

Yates does come off to be fishing a little.

I can sympathize with thoughts on PGO, but there's every chance that he's making the claim because he just is the PGO. I'm actually not considering people who went after him suspicious, mostly because I feel this is one of those cases where scum are just willing to let town make the case and then get slammed for it later.

[zabriel]

I don't know. I'm used to smaller games and I've been playing high lately. As a general rule, early on day one I like to leave my vote unattached when I'm thinking about stuff.

[zabriel]

I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon. The claim fits the theme, but it's different enough from the expectation that it's unlikely that he pulled it out of his ass. I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch.

Also, Solid Snake is a main character, and one that we'd generally assume is in the game. I feel like it would be too ballsy to fakeclaim when somebody could very easily nameclaim and send him to the gallows quick.

[zabriel]

I dunno, it's early day 1 and people have been going mad over stupid. People have been going apeshit over a claim based on a couple of fanboys bitching about Solid Snake being the most badass badass that ever badassed. And no, I didn't look at the vote count. I was just looking at the pressure in thread. That's what I meant by wagon.

I'm slow with votes, especially on D1. It's just one of my things. I'm not good at D1, so I don't feel very confident in my reads until day 2 usually. Right now I'm feeling town on Nero. He seems genuine enough.

I've got scumfeel on Ben. KK has made some points on him, he's asked some unnecessary questions, and the earlier noob-defense on me based on a self-vote from RC was just kind of bizarre. Even if I had self-voted, self-votes are anti-town, and him going oh, noob, whatever about that was kind of weird.

[zabriel]

VOTE: Ben

[zabriel]

I don't think much of any of the votes on me. They aren't really high on my list of shit I care about. I think Kublai Khan is serious now, but day 1 is essentially random anyhow, so it's hard to care about day 1 until you're looking back on it.

We understand the concept of Devil's Advocate. We're glad you know how to do that Ben.

[zabriel]

Some of my games are ending now, so I actually have a bit more energy for this one.

To be honest, that whole point about Aco was getting overdrawn and boring. I'd already been on and off the jason wagon and I had thought that the pressure on Aco was stupid town, but the fact that it wouldn't die, even without votes, left me with a kind of nebulous bad feeling. I didn't feel it was worth mentioning, because it had been talked to death already.

On Yates, he did seem to be fishing, but with the fanbitching (which I feel mitigates the flavor talk) and his subsequent play, I'm fine saying town here.

Off-topic, why does EVERYBODY think this account is an alt?

[zabriel]

Hey all. I know I said I'd take a look at this but I've been busy. I have a bit of time this morning, and a lot this weekend so I will put something together.

I just wanted to answer this real quick:

Sorry I meant the alignment based on the name, ie Solid Snake must be Town because he's a "good guy" in the videogame.

This isn't necessarily true. The Arkham City game we had a while ago that had Batman, Selina, and Robin as the scum. I think someone else was 3rd Party but the main pint is that the "good" guys were scum. There are more than enough villains in Harry Potter and Metal Gear.

You're taking my quote out of context. In my previous post 117, I was talking about the dangers of speculating roles/alignment based on the character name.

Well, that's the thing about a theme game. They don't have to line up, but they usually do, unless there's a huge twist in flavor, or if a set has way more villains than heroes, or not nearly enough villains to make it interesting. Unless I have good reason to think otherwise, I'm going to assume alignment matches with canon. I guess when we get Peter Pettigrew claiming Town we can revisit the topic.

I'm not sure why alignment speculation is something that's bothering you Cyber. Mafia is a game where we speculate on alignment. If we get too into looking at roles that gives scum too much information. Speculation CAN turn into outguess the mod, but that's more to do with the names and roles that make it into the game. Even that has its place, because it's logical to assume that the main characters are going to be there, as are some of the important side characters.

[zabriel]

Considering that you brought it back up again...

[zabriel]

Because I felt that Ben was a better vote. RC was putting it out there as a reaction test, which I've seen done by a few people, and usually it's either ignored or exploded on. It's a play that I don't like and I don't use, but his subsequent play hasn't been bad. His ISO is pretty short, but it's got a lot of thoughts about reactions to his self-vote. So I do think he's town, but his self-vote has nothing to do with the read.

[zabriel]

Wow, first time I've seen a daykill before. Not much information. From what we've got out though, it looks like flavor is matching the works pretty well, since if I remember right Psycho Mantis is the guy that can read your mind and keep you from doing things. Roleblocker fits that well.

I'm not sure we're dealing with coaching. It's possible, but it seems like the kind of thing you'd say to create fake associative tells. I don't know AV's scum meta, but it felt a lot like the last micro I played with him. He was arrogant, but he managed to peg the scum team pretty early in that game. I have townread on Yates, but if we're dealing with two mafias, Jason might not actually be a bad vote.

For now, I think I'm going to jump over to the KK wagon because I agree with the points put forth by RC and Kise.
VOTE: KK

[zabriel]

I actually did have scum feel on KK earlier, I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not though. And I don't have town feel on Ben exactly because the things I disliked about him weren't much to do with AV. I'm mostly just pretty sure Ben isn't scum with AV.

I can't shake the fact that this really looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"I think he's town!" "But his claim is totally something scum would fake!"

You're pro-activeness in pointing out potential scum strategies is rubbing me the wrong way. Why bring up what is basically a WIFOM argument so early in a game? Especially when you yourself don't think it's likely.

That's the point that KK was making that I had liked. He disappeared after this, so I'm not sure if he was going to do anything with it.

PEdit: You took me a little out of context. The third quote, which you cut short was referring back to the position I had taken earlier.

[zabriel]

I can't say for sure, but I have scum feelings about people that should logically be somewhat clear by the AV flip. It wouldn't be inconsistent with the flavor.

Basically I'm willing to take a step back on some things, but I'm not tossing all of my scum reads out based on me not feeling that they're scum with AV.

[zabriel]

Generally I'm doing about five other things while I'm on MS, some of which take up more mental energy than others. I tab back and forth, and comment on what is current or what strikes me as interesting at the time. Depending on my state, that can vary a bit, and sometimes I don't really feel like I have much to add, so I just kind of think in thread and let it sit out there for people to look at and react to.

I haven't answered the getting high question because I feel like it's the kind of thing that takes away from actual discussion since it's not exactly a game question, which has made me wonder why you and Nero are so insistent on knowing what I use. Sometimes I pick drunken fights, sometimes I wave things off because I've had a smoke and don't think they're that big a deal right then, only to come back to them after I'm sober.

[zabriel]

@Ben
Cyber still looks like shit to me, but it seems like the "coaching" is more AV trying to create a trap. So I'm not entirely sure that Cyber isn't scum, but I feel pretty sure that Cyber and AV don't share an alignment. Given that and the flavor of the game, I was wondering if we might be dealing with mafia/werewolf split among HP and Metal Gear villains. Right now it's just speculation and such.

Why would I think this as scum right after a flip? If I were with AV and Cyber I'd have left it at "IT'S A TRAP", with a little image of Admiral Ackbar. If I were scum with AV and NOT Cyber I'd forget the possibility and sheep Jason's thoughts about AV coaching. If I were on opposite scum team, why would I risk outing the possibility of another team before a flip confirmed it?

On RC: He was against the idea of a policy lynch on Aco. I agreed with his thoughts on Nero's reaction to his self-vote as well as his opinion that the KK FoS in #30 looked forced. RC's most recent post helped gel my thoughts about it all.

@ Kublai Khan, you reason for believing I am town is odd, to say the least. It seems like something scum would come up with to have a townread. Calling a post "too bad to be scum" is rarely something that town would do? If my posts seem scummy, why are you certain that I am town? Why no worry about possible scum when you see scummy posts? I doubt but anyone but scum would be so confident that a player is town because they find that player's posts bad, not good.

You say you never FOSsed me but you did - and it was a hilariously weak one at that. "Plus you're more likely to be scum since you're consciously trying to limit information that others can learn about you."

I read 29. I just don't buy it. Jason may well be town but your reasoning for thinking that is weak. If he were scum, he could have pretended to not have read the setup hoping someone like you would say that he is town. Or you could be be scum and could have planned it. There are plenty of possibilities.

On the whole, you seem focussed on very poor reasoning to get town reads as opposed to using a player's behavior in game to do so. And the "you are a newbie" line seems pretty pointless as well and to me looks like a way to difuse the situation by discrediting my read but also not directly calling me scum/OMGUSsing.

On Nero, it's mostly feeling. I'm not sure how to explain it properly, but I think that he thinks I'm scum. So that was enough for townfeel for me.

[zabriel]

Gonna have to agree here. IAI is asking for a lot of information, which could be the start of a kill-list for tonight.

[zabriel]

Might want to direct that question a bit better Jason. Is that for Kise or IAI?

PEdit: He's also asking for top town reads. Scum want to kill the towniest townies that ever towned.

[zabriel]

Melmond is a bit of a lurkerbunny isn't he? In 330 he has a go at BC for his attitude back in 42. Granted, it was fanbitching and dumb, but I think we were kind of past that.

He's doing a bunch of things that I've already been yelled at for doing, and that's weird to me. Also, I don't like his reluctance in 331. He throws some soft shit at Aco and IaI, but he doesn't want to actually call them scummy. I'm not sure what he actually thinks about Aco, just that he's opposed to a policy lynch and finds Aco's posts fluffy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Melmond

So, what's up Melmond? What do you think about Angry Pidgeon?

[zabriel]

Why is talk even a factor right now? AV told Cyber in game to sheep him.

[zabriel]

That's really the only thing I'm seeing from Snifit that could be seen as scummy. His movement on BC seems gradual and natural. He's a little lurky, but I think there are definitely better targets out there.

[zabriel]

@BC because flavor and scum reads that didn't make sense in my mind to be connected to AV, but still didn't feel town after he died.

[zabriel]

It makes me believe that it's a possibility. I also just like it for flavor. I'm a huge HP dork and prefer Voldemort to not co-operate with muggles.

[zabriel]

@BC because flavor. There weren't a whole lot of important villains in HP. Unless all the villains are MGS characters or we have some shenanigans going on, I feel like Voldemort is a reasonable assumption. All my thoughts on the subject are based on the flavor being consistent with canon. I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot and it's not really helping to keep talking about my flavor-nerding.

Well, he's not going anywhere unless we lynch him KK. I'm not really up for a policy lynch right now though.

Speaking of, what's that about a policy lynch on Melmond BC? Why not just actually call him scummy?

[zabriel]

[nerd]Yeah, except all of those villains are Death Eaters. Except the Dursleys. But the Dursleys weren't really villains. Just boring and unpleasant.[/nerd]

The thing that was bothering me is that you suggested a PL specifically. PL's at least in my mind are an admission that the town has no idea who to lynch. Maybe we're arguing semantics here. I do agree that Melmond doesn't look good right now.

[zabriel]

My internet connection is completely screwed up. I'm piggybacking right now, but I don't know how well it's going to hold up. I'm going to be V/LA until the tech comes by to take care of it.

[zabriel]

I'm back up. Pretty happy about that. I'm still feeling the Melmond wagon. I think we'll get a lot of information out of it. I'm not quite sure what to make of the latest fight here. I'm getting a little burned out on day 1 discussion so I'm gonna be kind of quiet until something catches my interest or somebody addresses me directly.

[zabriel]

VOTE: Snifit

Agreements on the wagon. I think AP's opposition to Mastin's aggression is scummy as shit. It just looks like he's trying to distance from snifit and finger Mastin in one shot.

[zabriel]

I'd make sure you get that out today Tammy, since if you can confirm an alignment you're gonna be NK-bait.

[zabriel]

Agreement on KK here. I really don't like his tone in the last post, and I think Kise's counterpoint from a town mindset.

I guess I can kind of understand Tammy wanting to hold back from a town perspective. It seems like kind of thing that's too weird to bring up as scum without following it up with something. It could be bad posturing or something, but I'm not seeing it as coming from a scum perspective. If somebody claims the message they create an association with Tammy, and as scum disassociation is the generally accepted strategy. While I would feel more comfortable knowing what was said, I do think that Tammy has town motivations.

[zabriel]

Ben's last post is bad. I don't like it. The defense is meh, and weak defense always feels a little bit like it's trying to subtly direct a lynch. Or at least it made me feel like voting KK. But figuring in the Tammy stuff that AP brought up, I'm wondering about Ben.

VOTE: Ben

[zabriel]

So posturing-Tammy is the theory.

I don't know about that. If we see a friendly neighbor or some such role die anytime soon I'd say it's pretty likely, but right now it seems reaching to me.

[zabriel]

So, a little late to this party, but I seem to recall Nero Cain claiming the kill on d1. Was that already ruled crazy reaction nonsense wasn't watching, or has that just been forgotten?

[zabriel]

I'm honestly disinclined to lynch Tammy. Since we know it's her killing people in the day time we can control her kills, because she knows that if she fucks up she dies. She's already shot one member of team mafia for us. I think she could be useful still.

There could be a framer involved. Benmage could be insane. I don't really feel like lynching Tammy is the optimal move for today.

[zabriel]

I don't want to lynch Tammy. I agree with Elscouta here. I'm thinking night shenanigans, and now I'm thinking Aco deserves another look for lining up lynches. I highly doubt scum aren't going to push the Tammy lynch because it's going to look bad to be off of it, and if she's SK, town, or we're in a multiball, it goes to their win condition to get her out. It's not really even an advantage for scum to delay the revelation of multiball at this point, as that would give them license to do a little selective scum-hunting with impunity.

[zabriel]

Got a lot going on this weekend. Trevor Project training. Studying. Things. Will likely not be around.

Not sure what's going on anymore. Still don't care for the Tammy wagon. I'm not really sure about Aco. Who is WC again?

[zabriel]

Unless we do have multiball going on, KK is town now. His last two posts are very logical and sensible.

Also, never considered that Ben might be a lyncher. Interesting idea KK.

[zabriel]

Tammy, is your power compulsive? Do you have to shoot every day? Can you shoot more than once per day?

[zabriel]

Hungover. Reading. Still don't like Tammy-lynch and will not vote for it. Kind of uncomfortable with Aco lynch. Elscouta, you're the only one on pidgey right now, so could you point me to the case on him? Things are bleeding together right now. Also, what do you think of the stray votes on WC and Kise?

[zabriel]

We would get some information out of a Tammy lynch, but I still think having a town-directed day kill is going to benefit us. I still think shenanigans, but even if the day mafia multiball suspicion is right, leaving Tammy alive effectively neuters her hypothetical scum team, since an unauthorized daykill is going to get her lynched on principle. I'd rather we move onto other scum suspects and let scum decide what to do with her. Even if we don't "need" the kill, it's a threat to scum, and she'll eventually take a bullet for the town. At the very least, we can use Tammy as a meat shield since there's at least one scum faction that needs her dead regardless of her alignment.

Of the people with votes, I guess pidgey is the person I'm most comfortable voting for. I had KK down as scum earlier, but I like his thoughts on Tammy, mostly because I don't think he'd defend a sinking ship if they were teammates, and if he were another scum faction he'd be pushing for her death with the rest of the town. I'm pretty sure that whatever Tammy is KK is town now.

VOTE: pidgey

[zabriel]

Reminded again

So, a little late to this party, but I seem to recall Nero Cain claiming the kill on d1. Was that already ruled crazy reaction nonsense wasn't watching, or has that just been forgotten?

This was after ThAd flipped when Tammy proved she was the bomber. If one of zab or Nero flip scum, I don't think the other is as well. Ofc both can be town but one flipping town before the other doesn't mean anything to me as if one were to flip scum before the other.

I actually was wrong in that reminder. I re-read the post that I thought was him claiming and found that there was no claim in there. He was just very happy about having called AV scum so early. That's why I didn't push it when nobody picked up that thread.

[zabriel]

I don't know if most/all, but there's very strong scum motivation for wanting Tammy dead. It would have been a great time to do some easy posturing.

I don't know about Aco. That claim is making things really awkward and clouding my thoughts. It might be worth it to remove the doubt and hope we hit scum, but I think that any lynch on Aco with the information we have right now is a solid policy lynch.

I don't hate the myk suspicion right now. I'd like KK to talk a little more about AP. I like summaries, they're easier on the eyes than scanning the game again.

[zabriel]

Hey guys, I have been busy with training for a few days.

About Aco I wasn't really sure if I had enough doubt about his claim to actually justify a vote. Another night and some less than stellar play has got me thinking that it might be worth finding out for sure before it gets too late in the game.

My pidgey vote was basically just sheeping the wagon because I was willing to trust Elscouta's judgement at the end of the day. Today I'm not sure.

PEdit: I'm gonna have to agree with Mastin here. The mad-bomber flip doesn't bother me. I did think she was honestly a dayvig and there were some shenanigans, and her flip confirmed that there weren't. I'm not sure mafia would have shot her last night, but mafia would have shot her eventually. I think Mastin's list is decent, though I'd put Kise further down the list of priorities myself. I would be comfortable with either MoI or Aco. The absolute only way to test Aco is to lynch him, and if there's going to be growing suspicion, I'd just as soon get it out of the way and not risk getting caught in an awkward situation later in the game.

[zabriel]

MoI, that is true, we can use one of our talky PRs like Nero to target Aco, but we're gambling with a life to test that, and his death wouldn't even prove Aco's role since we'd have to have the mafia kill and the reactive kill. If Aco is fake-claiming mafia shoots our tester, he dies, and the lack of a mafia kill is explained away by a protection or mafia just deciding not to kill, and if Aco is town mafia leaves our tester alone and points out the lack of a second kill and we charge forward. Basically to test outside a lynch one of our guys has to target Aco at night without telling us and hope that mafia shoots somebody that isn't him so he can report or be dead with the mafia kill. And we're down another two townies if Aco is telling the truth. Possibly more if a couple people get the idea to sacrifice themselves at night. Assuming anybody does want to risk it.

[zabriel]

Yates: a problem with that theory is that it did take Tammy a long-ass time to give us a name. I feel like if she's been given a guarantee it'd have come out earlier. I don't know Metal Gear so I don't know if Johnny Sasaki is a big deal or not, but she definitely had time to do some research.

Reading Wiki...

Yeah, Johnny's a comic relief character with bowel problems. I really don't think it was that ballsy a fake-claim. I am actually going to agree that the suggestion looks inorganic with the information we've got right now.

[zabriel]

Kise and jason are scum together. Lynch now, auto win![/sarcasm]

Kise, the tone of your last makes it seem like you've got a pretty strong read on somebody. Is this just sarcasm because sarcasm or is there an accusation here? And what makes Elscouta a better vote if you do have other suspicions?

Also, I'm V/LA for studying. I hate being on task, so I'll be in and out. This is just crunch time, so it's a bit more out than in.

[zabriel]

We have been getting some flavor in death messages, so that could actually confirm role. That being said, if the kill is delayed we may not have time to wait for confirmation, which could be part of a tactic by Aco. Either way, I see no reason to object to testing the claim. The flavor for kills does seem to suggest that scum are a mix of villainous characters from the series, as the swallow kill seems to indicate that a magical creature such as Nagini ate one of the townies, and a Metal Gear character performed the electrocution. So far night pattern has been No Kill, Town Cop (Snape) swallowed, Town Doctor (Mei Ling) electrocuted. Interestingly, people have died in ways that seem appropriate to their universe, especially considering that Snape was killed (though not swallowed by) Nagini in the books, who was known to eat her kills. This could be coincidence, but it struck my interest.

Currently I'm willing to vote for MoI. Mastin's recent comments have drawn my attention. Perhaps I have some bias in this, but I am frequently a bad player and tend to trust people who read me as town. I'm not sure about the myk wagon.

VOTE: MoI

[zabriel]

I find Aco's last very interesting. It would make me nervous if I weren't town and just a little disinterested in the game. I'm not really in a good position to say what it means. I don't think he's scum unless we're dealing with multiball, since he seems very confident. It's heavy-handed, but it doesn't actually seem engineered.

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with Mastin right now. AP is making some good points about PV which deserve some attention, particularly points regarding posturing. I'd like to see what happens here.

VOTE: PV

[zabriel]

I'm not really feeling an AP lynch today.

Myk's protection speculation kind of makes me uncomfortable. In a big game like this it's hard to say who targeted who without some inside knowledge. I went to reread from when AP replaced in (former occupant I Am Innocent) and I'm not really seeing the justification for that kind of speculation.

Also when rereading I noticed that Yates congratulated the fuck out of the "DayVig" right after the AV death. There was a little bit of "hey man, nice shot" from a few people, but Yates had the beer glasses out, which in retrospect comes off sort of like congratulating the doctor does.

More speculation that's bothering me more than it was earlier is all of the "Tammy had a safe-claim, so mafia have a safe-claim too". I can't remember exactly who was saying that and I don't feel like tracking back right now. The central thing that bothers me about that is that it really didn't seem like she actually had a claim since it took her several pages of refusing to provide her character's name before she finally gave us a fake name. The amount of time that passed makes it feel like she was stalling while she looked for a remotely plausible name. Maybe it's just in my head from to the rereading, but it doesn't seem reasonable to assume safe-claims based on Tammy play, and it seems increasingly more likely that scum is bringing it up to try to speed along the Aco wagon. I am sleepy as heck right now, so I'm going to nap.

[zabriel]

I started nodding off in the middle of that post and wanted to get it out there. I had honestly forgotten that it was Yates who was making those comments, I wasn't sure what page they were on, and I felt more like finishing my post and taking a nap than rifling backward to find it. Incidentally, I had been hoping somebody would remember who it was so I didn't have to go searching for it. I only noticed the first point about Yates because I was back there looking for stuff to help me process the thing with Myk and thought I'd bring it up while I was back there.

The intent of the last half of that post was to pour out some of my paranoia in an attempt to get discussion going on a wagon that I don't hate, as well as to see if I can actually find slips and to codify a list of lynches that I find acceptable at this point in the game. Currently I'm comfortable voting for Myk, PV, and Yates. I think the wagon on AP is town-driven, but I don't think that AP is actually scum.

On another note, I find it interesting that Kise has me pegged as the messenger. What exactly are your intentions behind sharing what role you think I play in this game?

@Mod: I'm not officially V/LA anymore, I'm just kind of lurky.

[zabriel]

I hadn't planned to confirm or deny it, I just found it curious that you brought it up and wanted to find your reasons for that. I hadn't followed that discussion well when I skimmed the thread and didn't find Cheery's question to you. Thanks. That helps me feel a little better about you.

[zabriel]

For two minutes I thought that PV's points on Myk were making sense, but Tammy was self-aligned, which means that Myk could totally make that argument from a scum perspective. If he encourages Tammy to shoot Ben and she does and he flips, the cop is dead and everybody is pissed at Tammy for killing the cop and we lynch her because we tend to assume our cops are sane unless we're derping and mistaking "not mafia" for "town". Anti-Tammy =/= Town though. Eliminating one faction from the game is a positive event no matter what your alignment is.

[zabriel]

Seems like a fair enough solution. If there's a delay on it, it might happen at the end of a day phase like lover suicide does. So maybe the best thing would be for the messenger to target today and claim tomorrow. That means we get a full day buffer to allow the delay to get handled without mafia interfering in the night as easily as they could with a claim today. It's pure conjecture on my part, but it seems like the most reasonable option as far as I can see.

Mastin, why Cheery Dog right now?

[zabriel]

Yates is within my list of acceptable lynches for today.

VOTE: Yates

[zabriel]

V/LA again until I get a new laptop charger. It died today and I'm without my main computer for a couple weeks at least. I'll try to poke in on the dinosaur from time to time.

[zabriel]

I don't know if I'm allowed to comment on the failed rush on me, but when a lynch doesn't go through, I tend to think that it means that scum was already piled on rather than waiting to jump on. Regardless of what anybody thinks of me, what does everybody think of Yates not being on my wagon at the end of yesterday, but eager to restart it today?

Pidgey, you have town on Yates because of AV. Would you mind going back over that and telling us what you think makes Yates seem more town?

[zabriel]

So you've called it then. Me, Nero, Myk, and Mastin? Plus AV from earlier. Are you really going to say that not one of the fake partners you're linking me to would be willing to bus and then draw a fuck-ton of attention after I flip? Okay. That makes COMPLETE sense.

[zabriel]

Bailing on your partner's wagon when the heat gets turned up is the scummiest shit ever. Nobody does that.

[zabriel]

Except that I'm town, so you're both wrong. Nice try though.

PEdit: If I was the messenger, I did not target Aco.

[zabriel]

I can see where this is leading. Fine, we'll do this. Go ahead and pile on, I'll claim, and we'll argue about it for three pages.

[zabriel]

I didn't say my claim would save me. I just like following procedure. I was nowhere near my computer when I was getting run up yesterday, and there was no time for the whole dance.

PEdit: I don't like to without intent, but it's going that way and I'm too baked to try to fight it.

Claim: Rubeus Hagrid, Vanilla Townie

[zabriel]

Mastin, where is your vote going after I flip town? Are you going to go after MoI for rushing the day?

Hey, AP, were you going to share the message you got, or just tell us that you got one?

[zabriel]

You don't think that Yates as scum would have been voting for a partner that early in the game? Is that the crux of your argument pidgey?

[zabriel]

PV - AP and Aco are town. If no scum are off my wagon that would be the rest of the team I think. Off my wagon I'm fairly certain that Nero and Mastin are town. I'm wavering on the rest. I'm willing to vote for either MoI or Yates today. I'm not really sure I understand the case for scum-messenger. What am I missing?

[zabriel]

Okay, I think I understand messenger a little better now, which is making Kise's insistence that Messenger is scum a little weird to me.

VOTE: MoI

[zabriel]

I don't think Aco is scum. And you'll find out soon enough that I'm just your average VT.

Let's assume that my flip has happened, it's VT like it just is, and you guys get to go from there. MoI pushed the shit out of me and then threw his hands up and withdrew from discussion. Is that town being overconfident, or is that scum posturing?

Pidgey, early votes aren't really that helpful for analysis when AV gets blown apart in the middle of the day. We have no idea where his votes were going, and at this point in the game, it seems a little weak a point to hang an argument on. Also, let's clear up your thoughts about messenger/neighbor. You think one of the set is scum, but you're not sure what to think of myk. What do you think of Nero? Think the opposite of myk or accept that they might both be town and move on from there.

[zabriel]

If it's going to be 1v1 tomorrow, go Kise over Myk. Kise is just wasting time being a bitch right now.

Kise, everybody is on me. It's not hard to join a popular wagon and claim to be pro-town. If I go down today, I flip town, and nothing you've done today is at all useful to town. Also, all caps is posturing. Scumtastic.

VOTE: Kise

[zabriel]

Personal insults Kise? You really have run out of useful things to say haven't you?

AP, thoughts about Kise?

MoI, I responded to PV with as many reads as I felt confident about. Good job fabricating shit though.

[zabriel]

Don't vote me AP. That would be bad of you. If you're going to call me town but still vote me tomorrow in the name of preventing another no lynch (which happens on the 26th if we use the whole day), you are nowhere near as town as I thought and we both deserve to go down. Also, how worried are you about dying tonight AP? I'm thinking that if I go down today Mafia is going to choose a wtf target that doesn't help us with much of anything. Being worried about night kills is town, but talking about being worried about them just kind of comes off as posturing.

Kise: In my readback I didn't get Kise-town out of AP. I got "Kise not found". You weren't on his list of people he'd like to lynch. I'd like him to comment with current thoughts about you that I can read and think about before I decide if I want to stay here or join AP and Aco over on the Yates wagon. I'm interested in his thoughts because he's opposed to my lynch and thus more likely to actually have good thoughts about who is likely to be scum since he's not busy chasing after the friendly giant.

PEdit: Trying to start a panic there MoI? If he'd mentioned the possibility of being NKed you'd have said he was posturing and needed to go tomorrow.

[zabriel]

You have misrepresented me at every turn. I came after AP because compromise lynches are ass. If you're wavering, go ahead and put a vote down. If you're convinced somebody is town, defend your fucking read to the end. He's been fighting my wagon all day, so I think it's a little bit bullshit that he'd go for a compromise instead of standing on principle.

When I talk about reading back, that was specifically in the context of AP's view of Kise.

Fair enough on point three. I didn't read the posts in question. I have little recollection of Day 2, as it was approximately a billion pages ago. Did he mention it on Day 3 or 4? Did you harass him for it then?

[zabriel]

Also, I've been fucking busy and this particular game has been low on my list of priorities. If you remember how much I've been V/LA for studying, training, and my damn computer being currently unusable, I missed a lot of the game and it would be a pain in the ass to try to go back over every little detail I didn't catch the first time around or have forgotten about since.

Since it doesn't seem to matter much now, I got a weird PM from the mod a few minutes before Day 2 started saying that "something" happened during the night that made me feel heavier. It was cryptic as shit and I have no idea what it means. I don't know if it's important or not, but since everybody is pretty sure I'm going out today, figured I might as well share it.

PEdit: that's the thing Yates, for him to be bussing we'd have to not be town. I know I'm town, and AP has drawn a lot of attention to himself by defending me. Maybe he thinks he'll score towncred when I flip, but if we were team scum together the obvious move would have been to jump onto my wagon and get some scumhunting credit. If I'm scum, why has he put so much energy in defending what is looking more and more like a lost cause? The only reason that makes any sense if I'm scum is that he's town who thinks I'm town. But since I am town you have scum looking for credit and town who doesn't have his head up his ass. What do you think he is? What do you think now, and what are you going to say about him when I flip VT?

MoI, nice job ignoring two direct questions. Has Mastin mentioned the possibility of being NKed since Day 2, and if he has not, why are you only bringing it up on Day 5 when Mastin has been coming up as a suspect as often as he has?

[zabriel]

Hey Jason, why don't you try being useful instead of just asking why I'm still here. I'm still here because everybody else either has a better wagon to be on or hasn't spoken up today. Except for Pidgey I guess, who just isn't voting.

The NK is going to narrow it down some, I'll give you that, but I've been talked to death Yates. Let's play a game. It's tomorrow, scum decided to no kill just to fuck with the town. I'm dead and the flip is Rubeus Hagrid - Vanilla Townie. What now? I've defended AP, Mastin, and Aco. AP has chainsawed the fuck out of me. Mastin has also been friendly to me. MoI has been tunneling me hard for the last two days. Kise and Jason have been uselessly parroting MoI all day. What do you make of that?

AP: I've been reading town on Nero for as long as I can actually remember. I'm not seeing how Myk-town automatically equals Nero-scum.

[zabriel]

I haven't really thought about KK one way or the other in a while. I had him as town for his interaction with Tammy. Ben had KK as town too.

Also, found the post that MoI was referring back to. For your consideration.

All it took was snif cursing to get him to back off

False. I unvoted because Benmage voted. Snifit ninja'd me when I was typing my post; I didn't even read it 'til after I re-hit submit.

---

pidgey/mastin/zabriel/zoroaster/kise/nero/acosmist

Myk, bluntly, I'm town.
Zoro's town thanks to AV.
Aco's town.
Nero's town.

That leaves pidgey, zab, and kise in your suspect list. Kise is being wagoned, the others aren't.
[hr90[/hr]

While mastin is playing confidently, he's at the same time planning how to go on in the next days.

Nah. My plan's to get NK'd.
And as you yourself know, I never intend to outlive my scumbuddies, anyway. I have a 0% winrate as last-remaining-scum.
But you're right on one point--Tammy's meta reason for clearing me isn't very good. In multiscum games, my scumplay is actually at its closest to my townplay as it can be.

/caught up. The fact that most of my scumreads have scumreads on the other scumreads is really unnerving me, so I guess I need to read the game.

[zabriel]

Jason, go sit down. If you're not going to actually contribute you're just making more useless posts for people to wade through.