Mini 352- Saints and Sinners Mafia - Abandoned
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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tokiyoh... Are you scum again ?? That's rough.tokiyoh wrote:Haha~ i don't think that can be called "proved random" since we don't know if the dice thing was true to begine with **LOL
Anyways.
No random vote from me but hi to everyone. About the double lynching possibility, i'd say we start playing the 1-lynch game normally, and when someone sees need of a double lynch, we can debate over that then. But of course Bishop holds the final decision.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Yosarian was in this situation at the end of Civilization Mafia. They had to vote No Lynch.al_kohaulec wrote:
lol, ya it was a joke. I was just wondering what it would be like if we had two players left and it was technically day. Imagine the conversation.Yosarian2 wrote:
Heh...well, no, that dosn't work. Because by the time you'd get a chance for the second lynch, there'd only be two people left alive, and one would be scum.al_kohaulec wrote:
(Or do it when we have 3 alive, double lynch FTW!)
I have no idea why the game needed to continue, though... Me and Yos should have won right there...
Your confidence in tokiyoh is inspiring.Also, he shouldn't get scared if he gets a lot of votes, he just needs to be honest, work his way out of it. I can understand if he's just 'that kind of person,' but he shouldn't get scared, so hopefully that won't happen.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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What's the WIFOM?ibaesha wrote:
Yes, could you?alko wrote:Kelly, I didn't understand your mention of 'providing fake roleclaims' or whatever. If your willing to explain (I'm guessing some joke) could you?
I'm sticking to the toki wagon for now, but could return to my Kelly vote. I'm not sure if she's pro-town and being silly or scum trying to spin a ridiculous amount of WIFOM early on.
I suggest that people not be suspicious of me offering fake claims to the scum. Especially in an open setup. It's quite harmless and could even catch somebody.
You mean well enough to know your alignment already?tokiyoh wrote:I don't mind the wagon actually,since Ibby started it, andas far as i can recall, i've been scum in the past i-don't-know-how-many games that i played with Ibby. What i don't quite understand is Kelly's interest in me. I'm sorry but.. do we know each otherthatwell? o___O (<<-- or are you someone i know under a different name??)
I read your first post and just assumed... You joked about random voting, declined to vote anyone, and sort of echoed what mikanoff had said about the double lynch:tokiyoh earlier wrote:Haha~ i don't think that can be called "proved random" since we don't know if the dice thing was true to begine with **LOL
Anyways.
No random vote from me but hi to everyone. About the double lynching possibility, i'd say we start playing the 1-lynch game normally, and when someone sees need of a double lynch, we can debate over that then. But of course Bishop holds the final decision.mikanoff earlier wrote:Yes, but using this ability first day, I think is too hasty. I think we should save the double-lynch for second day. Then, we will lynch with more accuracy.
Anyway, the bishop will be who finally decides when he uses his abilities xD-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I think it's pretty clear I had no problem with this bandwagon.Yosarian2 wrote:
...but you're not on it, either. I've got to say your behavior hasn't made much sense to me so far this game.Kelly Chen wrote:I didn't think it was pointless...
I don't think tokiyoh's responses have been that great. He's a bit defensive.
I'm a little concerned that I've made myself an easy target. I think I've been helpful, though.
Ibby, you should be like me and
vote: MOS
if you want off of tokiyoh. MOS is supposed to have told us who the scum are by now.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I'm not making any mistakes IIRC. It looks like it's easy to say that being "weird" makes me suspicious. Surprising, since there are a lot of scumchatters here.ibaesha wrote:Kelly: Why would I want to be like you when I don't trust you at all and find you the most suspicious right now? And as far as you being an easy target, don't kid yourself. You're not some newbie making newbie mistakes. You're experienced, and open set-ups are your favorite type of game. If anything you'd be a difficult target. If you feel that you're an easy target, please explain why.
Wow. I was just saying that I felt tokiyoh's first post kind of blended in with what was going on, without really saying anything new. Is that not why you were okay with wagoning him in the first place?Also, if anything, toki strikes me as underdefensive. When someone is run up, obviously they're going to defend themselves to the best of their ability. I felt he took it in stride and has answered points against him rather well. Including the one where you state that he was echoing mikanoff when he really wasn't. That was a misrepresentation by you.
Yeah? So what's my agenda? Am I defending tokiyoh?Oh and one more thing. When someone his fine with a wagon and actually contributes towards pointing out why someone might be scum, as you did, but doesn't put their vote where their mouth is, I find -that- suspicious.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Hopefully the scum will. I don't see the contradiction above, I'm an easy target am I not? I have like three votes right now for being weird.ibaesha wrote:
You are actingKelly wrote:I'm not making any mistakes IIRC. It looks like it's easy to say that being "weird" makes me suspicious. Surprising, since there are a lot of scumchatters here.openlystrange. I already said what I think of this. And the fact that you say that it makes you an easy target is ridiculous. You are the one with the behavior, therefore people are going to react to it.
Oh...
Nice way to attempt to twist my intent. I stated clearly why I was happy with wagonning him first and it had nothing to do with your observation of him. It had more to do with me thinking about it after you voted him and deciding it was a good place to start the day based on my past experiences with him.Kelly wrote:Wow. I was just saying that I felt tokiyoh's first post kind of blended in with what was going on, without really saying anything new. Is that not why you were okay with wagoning him in the first place?
I have a town agenda. Don't you think I helped to get interesting responses out of tokiyoh?
Yes, exactly. What IS your agenda, and why do you have one? The fact that I have found myself consistently asking myself why you are doing and saying the things you are lends itself towards my belief that you are attempting to spin WIFOM early on as I've already stated and explained.Kelly wrote:Yeah? So what's my agenda? Am I defending tokiyoh?
Very happy with my vote.
I don't really get your WIFOM concern. I could embrace any kind of behavior and still make you wonder if I might be scum.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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1. It makes no difference, I could easily have been voting himYosarian2 wrote:...
I still don't get it. If you really thought tokiyoh's reaction was over-defensive and suspicious, why weren't you voting for him? Why aren't you voting for him now? Why push the bandwagon but not join it on day 1? And why support another bandwagon now? Why MOS, anyway?
2. I didn't think his responses were terrible, even if I don't agree with ibaesha's characterization of his responses as under-defensive.
3. It makes no difference
4. Why not? A lot of people aren't talking. We can't very well lynch someone until this gets fixed.
5. Due to your move from MOS to nonny, attached to a criticism of the tokiyoh bandwagon. Are MOS and nonny that different? I was a little skeptical.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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No, it would slow the game down to have more deaths due to lynches than nightkills. Better for us to try killing people than to let mafia make their informed kills, yeah?nonny wrote:
That would make this game quicker then it needs to be and probally leave us with a huge lack of townies no way we would get that lucky in the beginingkelly wrote:If we were able to double lynch every day, I'd say we should use it every day.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a little curious about the responses related to the setup in this post of nonny's. It looks a bit like filler to me (as it did in tokiyoh's first post), esp. as nonny doesn't seem to have a solid grasp of the setup.It wouldn't be wise to save it that late, and I don't remeber but i'm willing to bet we have a doc.
It is a trap. It's like good cop / bad cop. You guys hammer on tokiyoh, I win over his trust, he hits me up for a fake claim, we nab him. Good job making me spell it out, I'm sure tokiyoh is reading this. I seriously doubt he'll fall for it now.
First of all it's not that neutral to give fake claims or to interagte if you don't care either way. And fake claims? it's an open set up why would he need your help? and why on earth would you offer?kelly wrote:I will observe this bandwagon as a neutral party. If tokiyoh asks, I will provide him with fake claims. But we can totally lynch him if that happens.
I'm not claiming anything, this is a response to tokiyoh's strange statement:
...are you claiming something? Or could you explain this it's a bit confusing...maybe it's just mekelly wrote:So you're saying your role in this game isn't one of the scum roles that "have to find their way to [you] during this time"?tokiyoh earlier wrote:Well i guess i have been lurking quite a bit lately - and coincidentally scum roles have to find their way to me during this time (LOL). But the truth is lurking actually has nothing to do with my role. I've lowered my number of games down to 1 mini only, if that's considered useful information in any way.
I@kelly....don't defend your self with scumchatting (post 79), they are completly different and just because there aren't that many scum chatters in this game (which is a lie because about 2/3's of us go there) doesn't mean you can defend your play style with that. That's like trying to get someone to testify on your behalf...but no one will and you are like "oh they must be out of town". Plus i've never seen you play in scum chat..you are almost never there.saidthere were lots of scumchatters in this game.
On average I'm on scumchat maybe every other day. I've played with Alko, MOS, Pie, ibaesha, and probably Bacde. I don't have to look for someone to testify on my behalf, because I would think Ibby herself would be up for that. I'm surprised that she's voting me.
Not sure if I think nonny is likely to be scum. I haven't played with her before.For now that is all I have to say and the only person i can see worth a vote is kelly soUNVOTE, VOTE KELLY FoS Pie-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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If it were possible to use the double lynch every day, the ONLY reason not to do so would be to get more cop investigations.yellowbounder wrote:I personally think that the strange things about Kelly is her acting towards tokiyoh, I still don't understand about the fake role claims, she actually supported the idea of using a double lynch ability, every single day, and she justifies her behavior by claiming she wants to have fun during the easy going day 1.
What on earth would we gain by letting mafia make MORE of the kills?
No it wouldn't. We would discuss each lynch. Discussing and making a lynch takes a lot more time than a night phase. It gives us more information, too.nonny wrote:
How on earth would two lynches a day plus a nightkill slow the game down? That would lead us into less players quickier which imho is never good.Kelly Chen wrote:
No, it would slow the game down to have more deaths due to lynches than nightkills. Better for us to try killing people than to let mafia make their informed kills, yeah?nonny wrote:That would make this game quicker then it needs to be and probally leave us with a huge lack of townies no way we would get that lucky in the begining
Someone needs to back me up on this. I can't believe this is controversial.
1. by "hammer on" I just mean "attack"
You relize that makes no sense, How would you give him said claim after he has already been hammered? And how would you give it to him in the thread with out everyone noticing? Unless you have some night talking to the dead so they can claim the next day ability o.0
It is a trap. It's like good cop / bad cop. You guys hammer on tokiyoh, I win over his trust, he hits me up for a fake claim, we nab him. Good job making me spell it out, I'm sure tokiyoh is reading this. I seriously doubt he'll fall for it now.First of all it's not that neutral to give fake claims or to interagte if you don't care either way. And fake claims? it's an open set up why would he need your help? and why on earth would you offer?
2. I wouldn't, that's the point
We must be on at different times. I hardly ever see you either.nonny wrote:
I'm not surprised considering she gave her reason as to the vote. And I'm in there almost everyday and I've never seen you play a game, so I some how doubt you are in there as much as you say....even though that has nothing to do with this game in truthOn average I'm on scumchat maybe every other day. I've played with Alko, MOS, Pie, ibaesha, and probably Bacde. I don't have to look for someone to testify on my behalf, because I would think Ibby herself would be up for that. I'm surprised that she's voting me.
@Ibaesha:
No idea what's scummy about it.Good thing I'm already voting for Kelly. I find this statment to be completely scummy.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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It was both.Patrick wrote:So which is it? Trap or joke? I don't see how any player would fall for such a 'trap' anyway. I did read your post 127. So just clarify for me, when you made the original post about fakeclaims way back, was it meant to be a trap or joke at that point?
I approve of the yellowbounder bandwagon. I'd like to hear more from this fellow.
unvote nonny, vote: yellowbounder
LYNCH -2 AND COUNTING !!-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I didn't say it wasn't really a joke.ibaesha wrote:She's even gone on to say it was a joke, but then not really a joke, which is the sort of backtracking that shouldn't be ignored.
I think I've contributed about as much as anyone else.I think people are WIFOMing themselves out of believing she's scum for it, which is exactly what I stated earlier. She stood on the sidelines of the toki wagon, pushing it, but not committing to it herself. Then she turned around and hopped onto the next big wagon that came along and hasn't contributed much of anything otherwise.
It strikes me that you're putting a lot of effort into making me sound as bad as possible.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I have the impression that ibaesha is interested in finding reasons for me to be scum, and not so interested in whether I am.Patrick wrote:It just looks like OMGUS to me Kelly. Can you point me to something suspicious Ibby has done?
Does it seem like I attempted to "twist ibaesha's intent"?ibaesha wrote:
Nice way to attempt to twist my intent. I stated clearly why I was happy with wagonning him first and it had nothing to do with your observation of him. It had more to do with me thinking about it after you voted him and deciding it was a good place to start the day based on my past experiences with him.Wow. I was just saying that I felt tokiyoh's first post kind of blended in with what was going on, without really saying anything new. Is that not why you were okay with wagoning him in the first place?
Jumping on the word "agenda." Obviously we all have an agenda.ibaesha wrote:
Yes, exactly. What IS your agenda, and why do you have one? The fact that I have found myself consistently asking myself why you are doing and saying the things you are lends itself towards my belief that you are attempting to spin WIFOM early on as I've already stated and explained.Yeah? So what's my agenda? Am I defending tokiyoh?
Very happy with my vote.
The reason it's suspicious to not vote for someone you claim to suspect, is that it may seem you're defending them while not trying to appear to. That's why I ask what sinister agenda is behind my not voting for tokiyoh. If there isn't any, then this seems to me to just be an easy reason to suspect someone.
Still didn't hear what was scummy about this.ibaesha wrote:
Good thing I'm already voting for Kelly. I find this statment to be completely scummy.It is a trap. It's like good cop / bad cop. You guys hammer on tokiyoh, I win over his trust, he hits me up for a fake claim, we nab him. Good job making me spell it out, I'm sure tokiyoh is reading this. I seriously doubt he'll fall for it now.
Wow. I don't have such strong feelings about anyone at the moment.ibaesha wrote:I'm committed to my belief that Kelly is scum.
She wants to nail me for behaving strangely, and backtracking on making a joke (which I didn't; she's committed to interpreting me uncharitably). She thinks "people are WIFOMing themselves out of believing she's scum for it". I can see how being strange invites some WIFOM, but is it an outright scum tell?ibaesha wrote:I've already stated why. Everyone can ignore it or brush it off if they like, but I'm not going to. Kelly behaved strangely. Yes, it could've been dismissed as a joke at first, but she continued on that course. She's even gone on to say it was a joke, but then not really a joke, which is the sort of backtracking that shouldn't be ignored. I think people are WIFOMing themselves out of believing she's scum for it, which is exactly what I stated earlier.
I don't have to say that there's a lot of spin here. I didn't vote tokiyoh, so ibaesha says I "stood on the sidelines".ibaesha wrote:She stood on the sidelines of the toki wagon, pushing it, but not committing to it herself. Then she turned around and hopped onto the next big wagon that came along and hasn't contributed much of anything otherwise.
It seems pretty gratuitous to say that I, of the 12 people here, haven't "contributed much of anything otherwise."
This comment is weird. I have no idea what motivated it. mikanoff was voting me, and had said he didn't like my 5th vote on yellowbounder. Patrick last said he wanted to hear from yellowbounder, also, and asked me the "trap or joke" question. What more did ibaesha want from them?ibaesha wrote:Also, while all this is going on, mikanoff and Patrick are sitting off to the sidelines not bothering to do a thing. That is noted as well.
I would guess that this comment is meant to be a token reference to a scum partner, assuming ibaesha is scum. I'm not sure which of mikanoff and Patrick is more likely to be scum atm.
Patrick, when you said you're sure I think a few people here would be happy to vote for Ibby, was this a joke?
I don't understand this, but I wasn't going to ask.ibaesha wrote:My bad. First it was a joke, then it was a trap.
I'm not that suspicious of ibaesha's characterization of the yellowbounder bandwagon. I don't agree with it much, but it could be genuine.ibaesha wrote:Yos: I do find you suspicious, if not hypocritical, for your recent behavior. You are attacking Yellow on the basis of his reasoning not being original enough and parrotting others yet you are ignoring those who did the same thing in regards to the Yellow wagon. Yes, it's nice when people agree with you, but that doesn't mean they're not scum. If one scumtell is sufficient to use for your vote, certainly the same scumtell shouldn't be dismissed when applied to others. Yet you are.
My perspective here is that Yellow is a fairly inexperienced player who has been run up by 5 (very) experienced players based on ONE reason. And that one reason is a 'scumtell' that four of those experienced players are essentially guilty of themselves. I find the wagon to be weakly founded at best and opportunistic and possibly scum-propelled at worst.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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There is no change of heart about yellowbounder.Patrick wrote:Kelly, why would you imagine my post 156 was written by yellowbounder? I mean look at the number of times I say yellowbounder's name in that post. Ppl just don't refer to themselves in that way. So I suppose the question still stands - why a sudden change of heart about yellowbounder?
I was passing through, didn't read 156 so much as remember it, and was interested in moving my vote to ibaesha.
I've already saidYour comment about fake claims: I don't easily see how it can be a trap and a joke at the same time. If you're joking then you're not seriously trying to fool anyone with it. So if it was a joke I don't know why you defended it as a method of catching scum. If it was a serious trap then it was pretty much no good at all. Nobody was going to fall for it.
This answers your question, doesn't it?Kelly earlier wrote:If tokiyoh asks me for a fake claim, the deal is still on. Otherwise it's a joke.
Just because it's a joke doesn't mean I'm not going to clarify what it says. I will gladly spend pages and pages answering questions about the literal meaning of what I said.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I didn't say you did. You're suggesting I "defended it as a method of catching scum."Patrick wrote:I didn't ask about literal meaning.
How many times do I have to answer this question?Why would you think toki would ask you for a fakeclaim?
By observing the bandwagon neutrally, I might win over tokiyoh's trust as he came under fire. He might then feel safe in asking me for a fake claim, seeing as I specifically offered to provide one.
Also, it was a joke.
For the sake of discussion, here's my suspicion ranking at the moment:
1. yellowbounder, ibaesha
2. mikanoff, nonny, Patrick, Pie_is_Good
3. Yosarian2, Mastermind of Sin, tokiyoh
4. al_kohaulec, Bacde
I just understood something tokiyoh said early in response to his bandwagon:
At first I took this as panicky and senseless, but it really seems he thought I was saying I'd make up a fake claimtokiyoh wrote:
..Hold on, WHAT? I don't understand - i mean do i ask for claims a lot?! o___O (<<-- please note this is a startled face)Kelly wrote:I will observe this bandwagon as a neutral party. If tokiyoh asks, I will provide him with fake claims. But we can totally lynch him if that happens.for myselfif he asked for it. This lowers my suspicion of his response quite a bit.-
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Quick answer to this.Patrick wrote:So yeah just for the sake of discussion kelly, why do you find mikanoff or me or nonny more suspicious than say Bacde.
The main thing here is that I have a positive feeling about Bacde. I could be wrong, but for now, assuming he doesn't start lurking, I like him.
You other three are simply in my "above average suspicion" category. I suppose that since we've seen some conflict, it's inevitable that I suspect you more.
Patrick: My feeling about you isn't too bad really. Though I've had some trouble taking your recent "trap or joke" questions as genuine. It has seemed to me that my position was clear at the time you started asking.
mikanoff: He could well be an easy target. I'm on the fence on him. I do like how he keeps posting content even though he's not moving his vote.
nonny: Lurking. Her posts look highly scummy to me, but this is the first game I've played with her. Pretty defensive I think. Other people in this game probably can read her better.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Oh really? Bacde hadn't posted in 3 or 4 days. nonny hadn't posted in like 10. I like Bacde's contributions, even if he doesn't say that much at a time. nonny hasn't done much of anything other than get defensive, and attack me (one and the same I imagine).Patrick wrote:
Bacde is lurking. I don't see how you can call nonny out for this and not Bacde.The main thing here is that I have a positive feeling about Bacde. I could be wrong, but for now, assuming he doesn't start lurking, I like him.
Hey nonny, why are you voting me again? Looking at your posts it isn't clear to me.-
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Believe it or not, I checked, and you were mostly arguing with me about stuff like this:nonny wrote:Kelly I have pointed out plenty of reasons, if you are confused that isn't my fault.nonny earlier wrote:@kelly....don't defend your self with scumchatting (post 79), they are completly different and just because there aren't that many scum chatters in this game (which is a lie because about 2/3's of us go there) doesn't mean you can defend your play style with that. That's like trying to get someone to testify on your behalf...but no one will and you are like "oh they must be out of town". Plus i've never seen you play in scum chat..you are almost never there.
Posting is beneficial to the town...nonny wrote:Main reason I don't see any of your actions as beneficial to the town.
I don't agree. He hasn't voted me. He's poked at Yosarian and ibaesha. Now he's said Yosarian is completely off his suspicion list due to his case against yellowbounder. Now he's unvoted yellowbounder. This is useful information. It would be nice if he'd go into more detail, sure.Patrick wrote:Bacde's contributions are few and far between. Like I said he just seems to go along with the currents of the game. He has hardly added anything.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I can't see yellowbounder and tokiyoh both being scum. tokiyoh could be scum trying to look town by defending a newbie by getting into it with Yosarian... But it doesn't look very effective to me. I don't think that's what was happening.Mastermind of Sin wrote:I would also be willing to go for Toki at this point. I'm not liking the yellow-toki connection here.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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But what if the silliness was deliberate? That's a joke, isn't it?ibaesha wrote:In addition, it includes the joke/trap comment that some of you are willing to dismiss, but I'm not. Her speculation that toki would be trapped by something like this is just silly. But she's covering up such silliness by saying it was a joke at the same time.
Ergo...
I said it was scummy. I never clarified why so I will now. In an open setup, I think that this kind of 'trap' is ridiculous. I also don't see how it would even work. Toki is just not that freakin' stupid. I don't know if anyone is dumb enough to fall for it in fact. It seems completely false and I can't believe that Kelly (who is pretty smart herself) would actually have faith that she'd gain anything by laying such a trap.Kelly Chen wrote:It is a trap. It's like good cop / bad cop. You guys hammer on tokiyoh, I win over his trust, he hits me up for a fake claim, we nab him. Good job making me spell it out, I'm sure tokiyoh is reading this. I seriously doubt he'll fall for it now.
Or maybe it was a joke...?
Okay so it's a joke. But it's a trap. A crappy trap. And all I see is her attempting to cover up by saying it's a joke.Kelly Chen wrote:If tokiyoh asks me for a fake claim, the deal is still on. Otherwise it's a joke.
Just because it's a joke doesn't mean I'm not going to clarify what it says. I will gladly spend pages and pages answering questions about the literal meaning of what I said.
The purpose of that post (177) was to explain the above impression.She never really cites why she thinks I'm scum, just that she thinks it. I've re-read the entire post where she explains her suspicions of me but the only thing I can really see is:
Kelly Chen wrote:I have the impression that ibaesha is interested in finding reasons for me to be scum, and not so interested in whether I am.
I'm not sure whether you get townie points for this. It's an interesting idea, and it's probably not wise to suggest "I'll help out scum if they need it" in a setup with a devil susceptible to nightkills.Anyways, I have come to a theory about Kelly after all of this. I will grant that she may not be a Sinner. In fact, that's the way I'm leaning. I'm thinking more that she is the Devil. I think the weirdness that she showed early on could've very much been hinting at this.
But it seems quite clear to me that this kind of obvious hinting on D1 would be foolish for the devil. The risk of the devil being lynched over such behavior is surely greater than the risk of him being nightkilled N1 if the scum haven't identified him.
I have a counter-theory: You've thought that I was hinting at being the devil for quite some time, because you're scum and finding the devil is important to you. If true, you would have quickly been irritated with me for dropping hints that early. That would explain why you're so distressed over me being "silly," and why you're not afraid of pushing my lynch.
This part might be true anyway. The scum would only need to think that I'm hinting at being the devil.Alko voted for Kelly, but unvoted later because he changed his mind.
Yosarian pressued Kelly quite a bit, but rather than voting her, he went after Yellowbounder.
Bacde avoided the situation almost entirely, but not sure what that means. He hasn't posted in 12 days.
MoS thought Kelly wasn't strange at all (compared to usual) and was happy to jump on the Yellow wagon.
Pie thought Kelly's wagon was 'easy' but was happy to vote Yellow whose wagon looked pretty damn opportunistic to me.
Going with my theory that Kelly is the Devil, I would imagine there to be Sinners among the above group. Especially if they caught onto the strange behavior that could be actual hints.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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It's only WIFOMish if she guesses the devil won't be useful.
But those people never suggested I might be the devil and considered voting patterns with that theory in mind.Patrick wrote:I'm not really buying Kelly's counter theory. I don't see what Ibby has done to make it more likely that she's a [sinner looking for the] devil than anyone else. Alot of ppl are voting Kelly, even if they are less vocal in their arguments.
Do you still intend to be voting for me, Patrick?-
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Well, it doesn't seem to make sense now that she's brought it up. But I could see scum voting for someone they thought was too obviously hinting at being the devil.Yosarian2 wrote:Ibby may or may not be scum, but the argument that "perhaps she's voting Kelly because she figured out Kelly was the devil" dosn't make any sense at all.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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I don't think it died down and then restarted. I just got off and then got back on. In the meantime votes weren't moving too much. I wouldn't say his lurking is what made me vote him again, though it doesn't make him look good or anything.ubertimmy wrote:Also, didn't the wagon on him die down for a while, then restart? I understand the first incarnation of the agon was about that post, but the revival of it was about yellowbounders incredible lurking, which I can promise I will not repeat. If I recall correctly, yellowbounder defended himself and he was unvoted... isn't this more about his lurking now?
I have no problem giving you a chance.
unvote ubertimmy, vote: nonny-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Same question to you then, Patrick. Do you feel I should be lynched if I'm just a townie? If not necessarily, I don't think it's wise to ask.
This deadline could change things, but I don't feel like I'm in danger of being lynched. No one but ibaesha seems too insistent that I'm scum. You other three (nonny, mikanoff, Patrick) are just holding your votes without much comment. I'll be surprised if the town finds there's no better option than to go with you guys.
All things being equal I think there are several lynches that would be less harmful than mine.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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@Yos: Because I check in here enough that you should be able to figure out my alignment from what I say and how I vote. Maybe not yet, but I think it's clear I'm trying to be helpful.
In contrast you have someone like the person I am voting for, who lurks and only comments on one player. Unless she claims a power role, you might have to lynch her at some point anyway, just because I doubt her actions will add up to a strong case in her favor.
I'm not necessarily saying lynch nonny, but definitely lynch her before me.
@mikanoff: You're right, it would be fair to guess that you still mean to be voting for me.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Your attitude towards nonny seems generous.Patrick wrote:I don't know Kelly. You pushed against yellowbounder for a long time then when ubertimmy replaced you suddenly switch to nonny who isn't participating because of her house move/new job etc.
I am somewhat suspicious of Pie and MoS for still wanting a claim from ubertimmy, prior to there being a deadline. Again, I don't see the use in this unless a townie claim means he gets lynched. I think it would be unwise to lynch ubertimmy before he has a chance to prove himself.
A stab in the dark is better than lynching me due to a deadline.Personally I would rather replace than lynch someone like that. Lynching nonny seems to be no better than a stab in the dark.
1. ibby's case that I'm the devil has made me a little uncertain about herWhy the switch vote to nonny when you seem so sure Ibby is scum?
2. ibby doesn't appear lynchable anyway, so I decided to try a vote on nonny.
It's relevant because you said scum "on the rack" do this. Have I been "on the rack" the whole time I've been the leading bandwagon?The deadline is not relevant to this. What I am suggesting is that scum go after lurkers/non participants because they make easy targets, and they don't fight back as much.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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That's not what I said though. I said "All things being equal I think there are several lynches that would be less harmful than mine." If that was supposed to be a hint, I think I would have responded to you differently when you asked what I meant. If I were scum, why should I take back a hint just because someone asked about it?Yosarian2 wrote:I especally don't like the random "some people are less valuable then me" line, which although she denied it and just explained she thought she was more valuable then a lurker, it felt to me like she was trying to hint at having a power role to scare off people who might want to vote her.
For now I'm going to
vote: ubertimmy
again as I think this is at least the best move for me to survive. I dislike not giving him a chance, but I think he's a decent D1 lynch.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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But I don't know who those four people are. That's why I said "all things being equal," i.e., if we all had the same role.Yosarian2 wrote:I don't know; it was just an odd wording, and it caught my attention, as it just dosn't seem like something a good guy; if you were a townie, you would know there are at least 4 lynches "less harmful" then yours, the 4 bad guys, right?
I'm not asking you to be a fortune teller. I'm saying I'm probably more likely to be able to convince you of my alignment, one way or the other, than a lurker who doesn't comment on many topics.Yosarian2 wrote:You later said you were trying to imply that lynching a lurker would be "less harmful" then lynching you. Well, that's probably true if you are town (if the lurker is not a power-role, anyway), and it's clearly false if you're scum.
Pie wrote:Ubertimmy is yellowbounder, and anyone who acts otherwise (as though yellowbounder's scumminess doesn't carry over)(read: Kelly) is acting scummy. And as for the claim, if we're going to lynch him anyways, what could the claim possibly hurt? At the worst, we lynch him anyways, and at best his role is confirmable.Werewe going to lynch him anyway? I think that would be really stupid, especially as we didn't have a deadline. I don't see why ubertimmy shouldn't have been given a shot.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Why don't you just say "yes"? That's what I was asking. The reason I asked is because I don't agree at all that a townie claim should've meant he gets lynched. If he hadn't been replaced, maybe, sure. But with a replacement and without a deadline, why the rush?Pie_is_good wrote:
Were we going to lynch him? That completely depends on the claim he was about to give.Kelly Chen wrote:Werewe going to lynch him anyway? I think that would be really stupid, especially as we didn't have a deadline. I don't see why ubertimmy shouldn't have been given a shot.
I don't think I'm going to bother answering this.Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but it sounds like you're saying we should never lynch unless we're under deadline.
It's not really that interesting because WE HAVE A DEADLINE NOW so things may be different.You don't see any reason why ubertimmy shouldn't have been given a shot? Two things about this:
-I find it interesting that you talk in the past tense.
That's true, but there's a possibility that he could've proven himself town with enough time, whereas yellowbounder was not likely to.-I don't see any reason why ubertimmyshouldbe given a shot. You act like he's a completely different character than the guy he replaced. It's not like scumminess resets just because someone was inactive for awhile.
I think this is moot now. ubertimmy's silence lately makes me feel less bad about settling on him as the lynch.-
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I don't know that I'm defending you so much as criticizing Pie.ubertimmy wrote:This is surreal, huh kelly? You don't want to lynch me, but you're voting me anyway because it helps you survive?
I'm happy with my vote on kaebamf, although I'm willing to lynch kelly too. She's defending me while voting me, and seems extremely keen to stay alive, which I find is often a scumtell. kaebamf hasn't posted besides his "hello!" I think he'd be a great lynch, as I think he's scum. Maybe he's scum with pie, and that's why pie won't discuss him at all.
As far as kaebamf, I'll move my vote to anyone if it would keep me alive. From my position you're all more likely to be scum than I am.-
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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