Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread

[Oversoul]

I was throwing around the idea of merit based achievements instead of the classical way scummies are handled with someone over aim the other day. The entire process for awarding them atm seems flawed because I think judges are rarely as invested as they'd need to be to make strong choices, and the nomination process requires you actually get nominated for a given award. Examples of achievements being something like winning > x% of your town games, winning > y% of your scum games, never getting mislynched as town, never getting lynched as mafia, being in a game where you were only on scum lynches. I'm sure you guys can think of more. The idea would be objective awards that could be handed out to any number of people.

Issues with this are the current method of display of scummies, and actually tracking it all, but hopefully that would be worked out on the backed of the site by next year (which if I understand correctly is what you are taking suggestions for?)

Chamber, with all due respect, this is not a good.

Please for the love of good do not rush to implement this into the site.

I don't know if you have heard of this term before, but it is called Gamification. I have played on forums and and on games that make it so normally unimportant things (like a winratio) suddenly become important or "used" for some achievement based mechanic.

You might claim that we are all mature and that we can realize seeking these things for the sake of their symbol (a picture, icon, etc) is a bad idea, but not everyone will be like that. Not everyone will realize the harmful side effects of pursuing these goals. They trivialize the game and turn it into a competition centered around fame and prestige rather than the thrill of the game and the fun originally put in place.

It turns people in materialistic attention seekers. The Scummies do slightly encourage this behavior, as does the Title Process, but both are strictly monitored so such behavior occurs less frequently, and when it does occur, it is quickly stifled.

I ask you out of respect, do not follow this project any further. Gamification is poor game design and is a cheap substitute in place of real design with actual fun.

I am glad to see this thread.

One quick question, why are most of the scummies turning towards Body of Work awards? I know some of you have commented on trying to retain a few single game awards, but why the migration?

[Oversoul]

To be fair, mafia is a game...

That's exactly it. Designers gamify aspects that are boring in order to make them more inticing which is only masking the problem - that part of the game is boring and has a naturally bad design.

Mafia *doesn't* need this, in my opinion. It is fine as it is and this would only hurt the site.

[Oversoul]

Anywho, Golden Fedora: Retirement present / lifetime achievement award seems fitting to me. Like, I can think of a couple non-admins who might be considered for one a couple years down the line if they keep going like they have been, so it's not like it will only go to admins (IMO). However, I do think that your typical Golden Fedora person maybe will have been a listmod or something similar at some point, just because the type of person who's going to contribute enough and be respected enough to get a Golden Fedora is going to be the same type of person who volunteers to do important jobs on-site anyway.

I agree with this sentiment. I can think of a bunch of people that 2 or 3 years down the line would all qualify.

[Oversoul]

No, because then Brightest Day would win a scummy and we don't want that happening.

No it wouldn't. It is too old to be nominated.

I don't generally like the idea of the QT nomination as things are often spoiled in there and it would just be a continuation of a competition rather than trying to root for your team/have fun.

Some things need to remain fun, for everyone's mental sake.

Just a general observation, but how come there is no equivalent to Paragon for Mafia members? Or is Best Manipulation intended to be a spiritual successor for scum?

I don't know what you would even be able to call that Scummy, or if it would even be practical, but I think everyone should have an equal chance at getting scummies of the same caliber regardless of what alignment fate decides to deal them.

[Oversoul]

Don Corleone is the 'Paragon for scum'.

That is what I figured, haha.

[Oversoul]

I support Reckoner's three month breakdown judging group idea.

I do not support any suggestion that trivializes Mafia games to points or win loss.

[Oversoul]

If there is a need, perhaps the Most Cunning Manipulation award could be changed to something ... less specific sounding and Best Manipulation could become a spiritual successor for Best Role Claim, but only for Mafia.

In short

[mafia only] Most Cunning Manipulation > [mafia only] Paragon of Town Killers
[everyone] Best Role Claim > [mafia only] Best Manipulation (roleclaim, playing habits, etc)

[Oversoul]

If all of these no's are because of the names, I didn't actually mean for those to be the final names. I realize they are bad and they are just placeholders.

I suggested this because I still feel Best Role claim deserves some recognition.

[Oversoul]

Why exactly do you guys look for/want in a writing for the ceremony? I would have helped but I think I'm a shitty writer.

[Oversoul]

Are those profile badges coming into existence? I don't know if this is the right topic for it.

[Oversoul]

it is but it's more to do w/ the art team afaik. i assume you want a PROPER one?(or accurate one)

I don't want the profile badges to come into existence. I made a stink about it and gamification when they were discussed earlier like a year or so ago.
I don't really care if a proper topic is made. I just wanted to know if they were in the pipe line. Since they are, I don't think my complaints will stop it from coming into existence.

[Oversoul]

i think i misunderstood what you said tbh. as i'm not sure what you're talking about now. i thought you were referring to the fact your scummie should be "most memorable moment"

Yeah that's not really our wheelhouse.

No, that's not what it was when I was against... Things could have changed since then so this might be the new function of it.

Either way, sorry for cluttering the thread.

[Oversoul]

Best hydra?
What is the policy for hydras and awards anyway?

[Oversoul]

Is it tacky to mod hydras for anything play wise?

[Oversoul]

mod meant to be nom. brain fart.

[Oversoul]

Copper is a 4 headed hydra?

Best Hydra should be a body of work award, no specific alignment awards.

[Oversoul]

We should really not be giving awards to hydras. First off, it's not necessarily a practice that we want to indulge since there's already enough controversy about hydras in general. Second off, a hydra can already be nominated for any of the main awards, why create an award just for hydras? Third off, I think it would create an environment for people to try and hydra in games more just because there's an award for it -- and if it didn't do that, then there wouldn't nearly be enough nominations to justify the award. And finally, hydra play is a very subjective thing -- some hydras sign their posts, some don't, some have multiple people in them, some have split personalities, some speak with one voice, and I don't think trying to quantify those values as better or worse than the others is a good idea.

I agree with pretty much everything in this post. My earlier post was mainly an attempt to limit the introduction of too many hydra awards IF we are going to implement one.

[Oversoul]

Suggestion:

force

bribe

require

ask Best Flavor winners?

[Oversoul]

Do you guys ever try to set precedents like other award things (oscars, Emmy's, etc) do?

[Oversoul]

Like giving the award to a women because she would be the first women. obviously not in the case on ms for the most part. Just things like that. I am curious although I think I know the answer.

[Oversoul]

I like the Game of the Year suggestion.

Agree with Quadz. Best Role/Best Mechanic, have people suggest winners under the same award and then if the judges determine that a role and a mechanic separately deserve recognition they can give two separate awards.