Metagaming...
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Arafax Mafia Scum
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Metagaming...
Being new to the MS site, I am not sure what proper etiquette is.....I have read mixed opinions and I am curious about metagaing.
Things such as posting about a playstyle in other games.
Things like noticing where and when people are posting.
What does everyone think about this?.....Thanks!"I will wait for you forever...If you would just ask me"
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BabyJesus Not Helpful!
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Kelly Chen Open-Minded
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Dranko20 Goon
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LoudmouthLee Mafia Scum
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Two people on this site are famous for metagaming... especially each other.Arafax wrote:Being new to the MS site, I am not sure what proper etiquette is.....I have read mixed opinions and I am curious about metagaing.
Things such as posting about a playstyle in other games.
Things like noticing where and when people are posting.
What does everyone think about this?.....Thanks!
It's me and Thok.
I find it especially useful. Generally, I find that you find the idiosyncratic nuances of their speech... the choice of words that may seem off... it has found me more scum than I know what to do with."LML = Mafia God" - Pie Is Good
"LML returns, plays one game, wins a Scummie, then leaves again!" - Primate-
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Iammars Mers I am not
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Then how do you know who is scum in the game that you're currently in? :teach:Kelly Chen wrote:Metagaming is wrong.
I keep a strip of duct tape along the left margin of my screen. That way I'm not tempted to check who it was saying stuff.
Anyway, I don't metagame by trying, but there are some playstyles I know down that it is how they always act, scummy or not (IS, BJ...)"Rolefishing is fishing for someones role. It's called fishing because it requires subtlety. When you grab a shotgun and start firing into the water, thats not fishing." - IH-
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Thok Disgrace to SKs everywhere
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Coming from you, that's quite a compliment.LoudmouthLee wrote:Two people on this site are famous for metagaming... especially each other.
It's me and Thok.
Any high level competition will have some amount of metagame to it, whether it's simply analyzing your opponent to prepare for their specific style, trying to mess with their head to distract them from the game (this even happens in chess, see the Karpov-Korchnoi), or just for motivating yourself.I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.-
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Fiasco Goon
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Cogito Ergo Sum YARR!
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Fiasco Goon
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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Both of the things you posted about seem like perfectly reasonable sorts of metagaming. One establishes a pattern of behavior, that can be checked against current behavior. Of course some people don't have a pattern, or have one that's counter-intuitive.Arafax wrote:Being new to the MS site, I am not sure what proper etiquette is.....I have read mixed opinions and I am curious about metagaing.
Things such as posting about a playstyle in other games.
Things like noticing where and when people are posting.
What does everyone think about this?.....Thanks!
And noticing when/where people are posting is generally helpful on a site such as this, where games can take long enough to notice. On a fast-paced site where you're expected to post every RL day, I'd find it much less useful.
And then things like "I don't like their avatar, their signature, or the fact that they killed me in the last game we were in together" are pretty bogus, IMO.Retired as of October 2014.-
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Shamrock Mafia Scum
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Iammars Mers I am not
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So what? You're asking us not to lynch you based on a playstyle that doesn't necessarly point you to scum because your lynching people on a playstyle that doesn't necessarly point them to scum?Fiasco wrote:But lynching people based on things which don't point to them being scum is something I'd do as town as well as as scum, so you'd all have to start lynching each other for lynching me based on something which doesn't point to me being scum."Rolefishing is fishing for someones role. It's called fishing because it requires subtlety. When you grab a shotgun and start firing into the water, thats not fishing." - IH-
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Cogito Ergo Sum YARR!
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I totally wrote the wrong thing. You'd have to lynch yourself, as you'd be using the "playstyle"-defense to justify bad play. That was it.Fiasco wrote: But lynching people based on things which don't point to them being scum is something I'd do as town as well as as scum, so you'd all have to start lynching each other for lynching me based on something which doesn't point to me being scum.Scumchat is awesome. Yarr!
~"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."~-
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Fiasco Goon
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Exactly! To lynch me based on a playstyle that doesn't necessarily point to me being scum because I'm lynching people based on a playstyle that doesn't necessarily point to them being scum would be to engage in the very act that you would supposedly be punishing me for.Iammars wrote:So what? You're asking us not to lynch you based on a playstyle that doesn't necessarly point you to scum because your lynching people on a playstyle that doesn't necessarly point them to scum?
That's different. That's not bad play, that's consciously sacrificing success in the game in question with the aim of improving gameplay as a whole on the site. "Lynch all liars" is the same; do you think that's bad play?Cogito Ergo Surn wrote:I totally wrote the wrong thing. You'd have to lynch yourself, as you'd be using the "playstyle"-defense to justify bad play. That was it.
Or maybe I'm just hypocritical! Maybe hypocrisy is my personal playstyle. And under your premises, you have no business punishing me for my playstyle, because that's how I behave all the time, both as town and as scum. You'll just have to deal with it.-
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Pink Princess Bloodthirsty Babe
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Hi Arafax.
I metagame to the max. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, unless you are bringing unrealated baggage from game to game - like personal vendettas. Speaking of metagaming, it appears as though you've been posting here but not in another game you are in.Vote Arafax
I also agree with the whole gripe about basically stinky playstyle disguised under I-always-play-this-way-so-don't-call-me-on-it. That's annoying.-
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AniX NoneUCalledNone
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Nobody can metagame me. I do the same song and dance in every game.Official Gimmick List:
INVENTOR OF UPICK!LORD OF THE 11TH HOUR!ASEXUAL!KING SCAR APOLOGIST!DREAMER OF THE NE0N DREAM (SUPP 2021 LAST PLACE WINNER)!
I have donned theRED CROWN-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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The problem with this is that "playstyle" things are often things that only LOOK like bad play, but are not really. For example, the first time anyone sees IS play, or Baby Jesus play, they think they're looking at scum. However, their respective playstyles are actually very effective as pro-town playing styles, so long as they don't get instantly lynched for their playing style.Fiasco wrote:
I'm considering making it my normal playing style to lynch everyone who tries to excuse their bad play by saying "it's just my normal playing style".Iammars wrote:Anyway, I don't metagame by trying, but there are some playstyles I know down that it is how they always act, scummy or not (IS, BJ...)
Now, if someone says "my playing style is to lie, claim cop, and try to get some random lynched every game, every time I get in trouble, no matter what my alignment is" then go ahead and lynch them every time for their anti-town behavior (or just vig them night 1 every game, for that matter). But generally, "bad play" isn't as easy to define as you might think.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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teucer Goon
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As I see it, metagaming is half the game. The other half is WIFOM.
Is a given behavior scummy? Either it's scummy because it's not how a given player behaves as town, or it's scummy because it's something mafia are somewhat more likely to do than town. In the first case, you need to metagame to pick it up; otherwise you miss tells. In the second, the mafia might be scrupulously avoiding the 'classic' tell, so the few people who do it a little bit must be townies - which is, of course, the start of the classic infinitely-long WIFOM scenario.-
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Dead Rikimaru Goon
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Metagaming is like checking the criminal antecedents of a person.
When there is a murder in real life the criminal background of the suspects tells a lot about them.
Of course the fact that someone committed a crime before is not proof that the same person committed the crime in question, but there is always a high probability and that's why it's always verified in real life, with good results.
I see no reason the same shouldn't be done in mafia games.
That said I'd say metagamig makes the game easier and that's why I prefer to play with different people every time.[i]"Dead Rikimaru is... well, dead. When the lights came back on, he was found turned inside-out, somehow. Disgusting, really. Anyway, he was "Dead Dead Rikimaru" (Self-fulfilling Prophecy)".
-The Scummies 2006 - Red Carpet and Ceremony![/i]-
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Fiasco Goon
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Fiasco wrote:
How does that work?Yosarian2 wrote:For example, the first time anyone sees IS play, or Baby Jesus play, they think they're looking at scum. However, their respective playstyles are actually very effective as pro-town playing styles,
They both play very agressivly, appear to bandwagon blindly often without giving any reason at all, demand that we "hurry up and kill him", and basically appear very bloodthirsty; the first time someone playes with them, they look suspicious because of that. However, I've seen both of them use that agressive playstyle to find scum, and both of them have good scum-finding instints backing up their hyper-agressive playstyle.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Fiasco Goon
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My impression was that they jump onto any bandwagon at all, which means there is no room for instincts to get involved. Even if that's not true, and even if they do have scum-finding instincts (which I'm not convinced of), why can't they try putting them into words?"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken." - Oliver Cromwell-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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I was a SK in a game with Baby Jesus once. I know his playstyle seems scary when you're pro-town, but trust me, when you're a bad guy and he suddenly changes from appearing to trust you to suddenly turning and attacking you without explaining why right away, it's downright terrifying, and it's very difficult to respond to those attacks in a rational way. The way other people react to Baby Jesus's seemingly random attacks can be extremly informative. And, except on day 1, he usually does seem have a reasonfor his votes, he just often dosn't share it.Fiasco wrote:My impression was that they jump onto any bandwagon at all, which means there is no room for instincts to get involved. Even if that's not true, and even if they do have scum-finding instincts (which I'm not convinced of), why can't they try putting them into words?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Fiasco Goon
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