Mini 304: This is NOT Any Kind of Mafia (Mod Abandoned)

[ryanjunk]

I'm here, I'm in, /confirm and so forth!

Random

Vote: VitaminR

Who wants to be healthy?

[ryanjunk]

Self-voting, random-voting, OMGUS-voting... all just here to tap the beehive and see what comes swarming out. This time around, raj flew out. This will be noted, but I'm not sure it means much. Minor FoS for raj and a teeny-tiny FoS to cropcircles for being a bit unorthodox. Then again, it's usually in the nature of scum to try and stay

away

from controversy, so it's a wash.

[ryanjunk]

Eh. I didn't vote for cropcircles, or bold a real FoS onto him because, I don't think he's scummy. But hey, all my dithering caught someone!

Vote: Yosarian2

[ryanjunk]

I don't think I was that scummy. And I know I'm pro-town, so I looked at people who started jumping on my bandwagon. I voted Yosarian because he jumped on second; I think this is kind of the "pole position" for scum. Not starting the bandwagon against a townie, but gleefully jumping on.

To reiterate: I'm not trying to walk on eggshells. I just hadn't seen anyone who looked definitively scummy, and I figure it's too late in the day to start throwing in random votes, so I didn't vote for anybody.

Some people took that opportunity to call me scum; I consider this a very convenient opportunity for scum to lynch a townie. Hence my vote. At the very least, it'll get everyone to look at the people running this wagon.

FoS: VitaminR

[ryanjunk]

I explained above, in post 135. Something else you need clarified?

[ryanjunk]

Well, I don't have any particular information to make myself a worse choice, other than that a scum would be better. As I said, at the very least I'll get lynched as an innocent and then you all can look hard at the people who got me there. I'm just trying to skip the middleman and get to the scum-finding.

I'm not really sure there's anything else I can say. If I'd been lynched for actions, I could defend them, but it's more for inaction (the alleged "walking on eggshells"). When I started being more active, I got called out for that too. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. Damn.

No, I don't find cropcircles scummy. Yes, I think it's quite interesting and should be noted if people try to start a bandwagon on me based on relatively weak evidence (basically amounting to "Oh my goodness, he's playing a bit cautiously on Day One!").

I also don't definitively think Yosarian is scum. He just looks most scummy to me, right now. Call it "gut", call it "OMGUS", call it whatever you want. I think second-voting me on this very weak "eggshells" excuse is fairly scummy. Clearly others disagree with me.

So, that's all. People who still want to vote me will still vote me. That's where I'll stand. If Yosarian doesn't have anything to say about it, I'll keep my vote. If he does, I'll remove it. If I get lynched, keep an eye on people who pushed the wagon.

[ryanjunk]

Yep. I don't see how anyone could explain it any other way. Barring a cop investigation of me (which is impossible as we didn't have a Night yet, nor would I want a cop to come out to protect me) or some kind of funky day power, there's no way I can "prove" my innocence. So, look closely at those who are pushing the wagon.

[ryanjunk]

Well, I've stated everything I'm going to state as far as logic against me being weak. What I've done is probably bad playing, so if I get the lynch it's my own fault. I appreciate the pointers, and I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

and lay low a little to see what some other people think.

[ryanjunk]

I don't have much else to add if people are insistent on lynching me...

[ryanjunk]

I think at this point it's gone way beyond overreaction, Tamuz. First you decided to go hard after raj because you thought he wasn't properly following his own logic. Now you've just completely stopped, and are full-on against me. It looks a lot like a string of overreaction to flimsy reasoning to me. It wasn't obvious (to me) why you went after raj for not voting cropcircles, but you were after him like a cop with a guilty result. And then it went away, and now you're after me like I kicked your dog, even though all I did was act a bit too cautiously in Day 1.

I think even if you're town, this aggressiveness can only play into the hands of scum. I think it more likely that you're just trying to look useful to the town. I initially thought that, of the members of my bandwagon, Yosarian seemed more likely scum for going under the radar. But I think it looks more like you're just too aggressive to really be pro-town, Tamuz.

In addition, I don't like how you set off on me and subsequently sat on the backburner and let other people keep up pressure on me. Since you voted, you've had a total of 6 one-liner posts, most of which are quotes with a "me too", or "confirm vote", or "hey mod, you should probably kill ryan because I don't like him."

So, people are accusing me of, at best, not being very useful to the town. What useful information have your 6 non-posts given us other than "I think ryan might be scum", which can be gleaned by the fact that you're voting for me?

Vote: Tamuz

[ryanjunk]

Eh. I'm the Taco Liberty Bell. I'm pro-Town. I have no powers.

[ryanjunk]

Um? EmpTyger? I'm not lying, you'll have to explain a bit more.

Vote:EmpTyger

[ryanjunk]

Oi.

Vote: InHim

[ryanjunk]

For what it's worth (and at this point, trivia is all I have to add), "Taco Liberty Bell" is a phrase referring to an April Fool's joke done by Taco Bell in 1996. They took out a full-page ad in the New York Times claiming that they had purchased the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia (for non-USians, a famous patriotic symbol) and would be renaming it as Taco Liberty Bell.

There you go.

I can see the vote going either way. I read from post 175 that Tamuz didn't recognize the phrase, so if it does turn out that all the pro-town players are called "Taco Liberty Bell", that would make Tamuz scum. It would also seem to imply that if he is scum, TLB was not given out as a safe claim.

But, maybe only some of us are called TLB, in which case it's all sort of moot. So, either:

1) We're all Taco Liberty Bell. In which case it provides no other information, ha ha InHim.
2) All the pro-town are Taco Liberty Bell. In which case, Tamuz looks scummy due to 175.
3) Some of us are Taco Liberty Bell, some are something else. In which case it provides no other information, ha ha InHim.

In any case, the only information that can be gleaned from this is that Tamuz might be scum, or is at least "different" in some way from the several of us who are named "Taco Liberty Bell". I'm going to

Vote: Tamuz

[ryanjunk]

Just for the record, I'm against any kind of mass claim. It's interesting to note all this TLB stuff. Now that we have people claiming to be pro-town, but not TLB, Tamuz doesn't necessarily look quite as scummy. He's still at the top of my suspicion list, so I'm keeping my

Vote: Tamuz

but I don't really know what to think at this point. That Adele was told that TLB might be important words is interesting. I tend to agree that all the town being TLB would make the setup just a bit too easy, so I'm inclined to believe Adele. I'm also inclined to

FoS: EmpTyger

for being a bit too jumpy when I first claimed my name. Although I'd be a bit jumpy too if someone else claimed my exact rolename, and it was a slightly odd one as well. But, that plus his "Just blindly trust me, OK" puts an FoS on him, in my opinion.

[ryanjunk]

Yeah, I thought a little bit about it over the last couple of days, and I just started to agree with whoever said that it'd make the setup a bit too easy. It's a 180 I admit, but it just makes sense now that I rethink it. Hence the 180.

[ryanjunk]

I personally think that so far, the TLB issue, and more particularly people's responses to it, are all we have to go on. I've been away from the game this weekend, so I'll look over again and make a real post, but I think EmpTyger has a point that we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB...

[ryanjunk]

I'm not trying to make any sacred cows over TLB. All I'm saying is, the reactions of people to it are still important. I'd agree that the mod wouldn't give away the whole game with an obvious setup, but the way to figure out people's motives is in their reactions. That's what Day 1 is all about. Conversation about TLB has shown a number of reactions. So, we should pay attention to that, and not be distracted from it.

So, if someone has something better to focus on, fine. But most of the discussion thus far has been TLB; it's discussion that will show people's motives and scum tendencies.

EmpTyger said he had an "odd feeling" about Yosarian for discouraging the TLB issue, and that he doesn't feel we should quickly dismiss our discussions about flavor. Maybe that's not outright saying "we should all vote for anyone who doesn't want to talk about TLB" but it's certainly within the realm of "we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB". I don't see how you can honestly say you didn't get that impression from Post #248:

Tamuz:
It’s Day 1, in a game starting in daytime: I’m not sure discussion about flavor should be quickly dismissed as irrelevant. Though to be honest, I have nothing besides that at the moment other than my feelings about Drummer. I’ll do a reread later and see if I find anything else.


Yosarian:
I really have an odd feeling about how discouraging you have been about the TLB issue. You seem awfully sure that it can’t be helpful for the town. At the very least I would like an explanation for why you referred to LTB rather than TLB in [197].

You read that and don't get the same impression as me? How pray tell do you read it? So, you claim that I'm misreading what is a fairly obvious post, and use that as evidence against me? Psh.

Vote: Drummer

[ryanjunk]

The only thing I have in my defense is that I named Taco Liberty Bell before I knew anything about what it meant. Of course, if you believe scum were given this as a safe claim, that doesn't mean much; but if it were, I wouldn't have come out with it relatively early. Anyway, either way I'm a safe lynch for today, as I'm vanilla; but it'd be better to get scum.

As for the rest of Drummer's points:

This is bull. Exactly what I'm beginning to expect from you. You aren't even paying attention to your own words. The point isn't that we should forget TLB. I've said that, uh, at least once already. The point is that there ARE other things to be focusing on as well. You should be aware that it is a scum tactic to use only part of what another player says to try and incriminate them. If you're gonna make some weak argument against me, at least get your facts straight first.

I don't see how I'm getting any facts straight. In your post #250, you say that talking about TLB is "a dead end" and that it's "an issue that isn't getting us anywhere". I'm sorry if you think it was a gross mistake for me to summarize your position as "forget talking about TLB", but that's the way I read it.

You haven't answered my questions about how exactly I so horribly misread EmpTyger's post. If nothing else, that's a bit odd as you go on to lecture me about how it's a scum tactic to misquote other people.

I went back to read your other recent posts, and you did say that it's still important to keep TLB in mind, so my vote is a bit of overreaction. I get a bit frazzled as Day One goes by, because of the extreme lack of information. As by your apology, I see you probably do too.

I'm willing to change my vote, but I'd like you to answer my questions regarding your reading of EmpTyger's post. That's my only sticking point right now, you're basically showing your own scum tell by misrepresenting what EmpTyger said.

[ryanjunk]

You're continually misrepresenting what I said. I never said TLB should be the only thing we discuss, and I confirmed that in 252. Here's what I said:

I personally think that so far, the TLB issue, and more particularly people's responses to it, are all we have to go on. I've been away from the game this weekend, so I'll look over again and make a real post, but I think EmpTyger has a point that we should look at people who are trying to distract from TLB...

I said that TLB was the only hard information we have so far, and I said we should "look at" people who are trying hard to distract from it. I never mentioned a "witch-hunt", nor did I in any way imply that EmpTyger is trying to start a "witch-hunt". I just said we should "look at" those people. EmpTyger said one such persion gave him "odd feelings" and I agreed. For you to characterize that as me advocating that "TLB should be the only topic of discussion" is at best a misreading of my post and at worst scummy. For you to imply that I read EmpTyger as saying "we should start a witch-hunt" is at best a misreading of my post and at worst scummy.

I'm repeating myself here. Things have been attributed to me that I didn't remotely say. I never called for a "witch-hunt" and I never said TLB should be the only thing we talk about, nor did I ever imply that EmpTyger said either of those things.

Perhaps my language that TLB and its responses are "all we had to go on" is confusing you; here I just mean that this is the only hard evidence we have so far; who claims TLB and who doesn't, and that multiple people are TLB. Plus the myriad of responses and statements about it. In no way did I mean to say this is the only thing we discuss; merely that outside of TLB it's all the typical Day One "gut feelings", random bandwagons, and so on. We should certainly keep our eye on our one hard source of evidence, and we should certainly keep an eye on people trying to distract from our one hard source of evidence.

So, I ask again: where in any of my posts do you find language that in any way says "witch hunt" or "ignore everything that isn't TLB"? Where in any of my posts do you find me saying that EmpTyger said those things?

[ryanjunk]

I'm not looking for exactitude, or anything like that. I just don't believe that anything I posted went anywhere NEAR with-hunt territory. Find me a single thing I said that even implies "witch hunt". I'm telling you right now that wasn't my meaning, and I'm asking you to show a single thing I said which ever implied it.

[ryanjunk]

Aha. Just because something's the only thing we have to go on, does not mean by far that we should only discuss that. Just means we shouldn't ignore it. By all means, we should discuss any other information people have or think they have. So you see, now you've answered my question. You interpreted my saying something is "the only thing we have to go on" to mean "never discuss anything else". This is not what I'm saying. I'm just saying because it's the only thing SO FAR that we have to go on (no cop investigations, no people doing really scummy things, no real vote history to look at because we don't have any verified town or scum), we shouldn't completely dismiss it.

Your completely aggressive response notwithstanding, I'm going to

Unvote

because I now understand what you were misinterpreting. But I maintain an

FoS: Drummer

for said aggressiveness.

[ryanjunk]

Hmm... I believe Adele, because Adele doesn't seem scummy to me, and the role sounds weird enough to be part of this game. I'm a bit shaky on VitaminR's counterclaim. I'm leaning toward voting VitaminR, but what with him being close to a lynch, and having just claimed, I want to hear what others think.

[ryanjunk]

I think it's pretty clear that Adele was up-front with her information. It may still turn out that she's anti-town, but at this point I doubt it. And so I think EmpTyger is being a bit scummy trying to make her look bad, and trying to get the roleblocker to claim. And so I think I will

Vote:EmpTyger

[ryanjunk]

Pretty much spot-on to what Adele replied. I have no idea why there was no night-kill last night. I'd guess, based on a role called "cross-cultifier" that we've still got cultists about, but I've no way of knowing for sure, nor would I know who got recruited if anyone did.

So, your questions are basically meaningless. Of course I'd like to know what the cult (if there is one) did, and what the mafia (if there is one) did. But that's sort of the point of the game. The only people who know are the evil-doers themselves.

Further, if a roleblocker did stop a nightkill or a cultification, good job roleblocker! But if they come forward, it just paints a big target-bullseye on themselves. Now the cult/mafia/whatever would know exactly who's stopping them killing/recruiting.

I'm against a roleblocker coming out at this point. And I'm sticking with my EmpTyger vote.

[ryanjunk]

Yeah. If the game goes on, it'll probably pick back up and get interesting, so I'll overcome my hesitation and give it another try if it gets resuscitated.

Put me in "is at least willing to play".

[ryanjunk]

I was:

Taco Liberty Bell - Activated SK - as of now, you are pro-Town. But, if a certain trigger happens, you might become trigger happy

Probably wasn't really a trigger, eh?