Random Mafia 2 Game Over

[flyingm00c0w]

/confirm

[flyingm00c0w]

I'm so confused. Is what just happened here normal?

Since this is the random game, Random.org tells me to

vote: Thoth

But FOS: Fritzler. What are you doing, man?
And I'd like to mention that in the Bad Idea mafia game, mafia won.

[flyingm00c0w]

Well, I was going to vote for flyingmoocow. Then mathcam says Pooky is scum- for sure even. Of course, it doesn't really matter since my vote doesn't count today. Dunno why. So I'll give Pooky a huggle and ...

vote:flyingmoocow Scummy first post.

o.o? Explain what you mean by "Scummy first post"

What did you expect me to do? Congratulate Fritzler for killing mafia..and also a townie?? It was a waste of his vigilante powers.

And as for my vote, I was just trying to get into the random mood, instead of jumping on a bandwagon, like SOME people

[flyingm00c0w]

This is probably pointless now, since Pooky is already dead, but I'd just like to throw in my two cents:

I agree with Lloyd that Pooky's recent posts have been quite suspicious. I'm sure he meant it to be cute and coy, but it comes off as desperate. Of course, I'm not really familiar with how Pooky plays anyways.

Then again. Lloyd, you mentioned that it was suspicious that Pooky roleclaimed without a name. I'd like to point out that cam didn't offer up a name either. Can you give us one so we can be more confident in you, Cam?

I've come up with four possible scenarios:

Scenario 1: Cam is cop, Pooky is scum trying to save himself against the bandwagon. The obvious case.

Scenario 2: Cam is scum, Pooky is townie. Cam is trying to frame Pooky, and Pooky innocently trusts Cam to be too rational to try to roleclaim and kill on the first day. This is plausible to me, but it seems unlikely. Pooky is a little too trusting of Cam, I think.

Scenario 3: Cam is cop, Pooky is a townie. This is the scenario that Pooky is trying to push right now.

Scenario 4: What if both Cam AND Pooky are scum? Killing Pooky off first round could be a ploy to strengthen Cam's credibility. Audacious, yes, and improbable. But it's possible.

Anyways, this should all be resolved when Pooky's identity is revealed. But I'm trying to get myself into the minds of both Pooky and Cam, thinking what I'd do if I were a townie/scum/cop and in their situation. Hm.

[flyingm00c0w]

Things just feel kinda fishy at this point. Why, for example, is Pooky so defensive of Cam? He went as far as to construct that whole elaborate explanation with the framer. It's just unlikely. That kinda prompted me to think up scenario 4.

[flyingm00c0w]

Reading back over the whole Pooky and mathcam thing, it occurred to me that Pooky's defense of mathcam is a little too loud and too obvious. Anyone else get that feeling? It could have just as well been a one-sided attachment, Pooky onto mathcam.

And Ibaesha: I haven't done anything suspicious; with all due respect, your vote is wasted, especially if you can't better articulate this "feeling" of yours.

speaking of wasted votes,

unvote

since Thoth is MIA and it was a random vote anyways.

[flyingm00c0w]

Wow. Roleclaim.

I've kinda kept silent throughout this whole thing because nobody really showed up as positively scummy. Mathcam was suspicious, sure, but he did help us catch scum. Same deal with Fritzler. Coron's attack on HezLucky was rather arbitrary, I thought, but then I assumed he was some kind of cop role.

Now with the roleclaim, I guess Coron is kinda off-limits for lynching, but I'm still bothered by the really strange accusation of HezLucky. Is there something you're not telling us, Coron? You never really gave your argument for why you think HezLucky is scum.

And Ibaesha: You keep latching on to me, and it bothers me alot. You don't have any (real) reasons, so it occurred to me that your behavior is consistent with that of a cop. But I know that I'm pro-town, so either 1) You're a paranoid cop or 2) You're some kind of scum ruse. I'll ask you the same question: Do you know something that the rest of us don't?

[flyingm00c0w]

so I need a raise of hands, who wants me to use it tonight, who wants me to save it?

I think that you should use the mass block whenever you feel like it

Now that bothers me. We have no way to believe that Coron is telling the truth. He could be bluffing. He was so ready to prove it to us a couple of posts ago, and now he's coming up with a way out?

I think Coron should roleblock tonight. It'll prove whether or not he is innocent, and if it does work, it will buy us more time by thwarting a scum-kill.

[flyingm00c0w]

Could you explain this? Wouldn't it just prove that he has/had the ability that he claimed? How would that explain anything about his innocence?

You're right; I wasn't thinking. I just assumed that Coron was claiming a pro-town role since he was trying to avoid a lynch. But I realize now that he could just as well be scum with a one-shot mass roleblock.

Scum just want to be able to plan around your ability.

Here's the thing: there's not much "planning" scum can do. Either they kill one night, or they're thwarted and kill the next. It's an ongoing thing.

But as three word name mentioned, if Coron decides to arbitrarily roleblock one night, he could be thwarting a pro-towner's one-shot. (I realize that scum apparently has abilities too, but we outnumber them, and I think our abilities outnumber them too).

You're not thinking from a town standpoint, ibaesha. A sudden, unannounced roleblock one night could do considerably more harm than good.

Honestly, I think Coron's one-shot is pretty useless because it affects everybody. Still, it buys one extra night before we get to the lynch or lose stage. It doesn't matter when he uses it, so I wanted Coron to do it soon because I still think he's bluffing. But that was just my opinion.

[flyingm00c0w]

I still agree with threewordname that Coron should alert us when he uses his ability. Regardless of whether or not he's scum, the ability could still prove to be useful for us, granting us an extra day to consider and discuss.

FOS: Coron and mathcam

because I feel that both are suspicious. Coron because of the whole uncertanity if his ability is scummy or not, and mathcam because of the whole "oh wait I'm a one-shot but i decided not to tell you" thing. But at the same time, I feel that both are off-limits for voting; Coron because his ability could come in handy, and mathcam because he's already caught scum for us once, and that's not something that can be faked. (Though on second thought...)

Regardless; I've gone back and reread the thread, and ibaesha repeatedly caught my attention, especially the bit when she said that Coron shouldn't reveal when he is going to use his ability. Her reason was: "Scum just want to be able to plan around your ability." The remark bothered me then and it still bothers me now. Maybe I'm just oversensitive to her because she's been throwing around baseless accusations, which incenses me, but I think she's been acting (emphasis on acting) too pro-town.

so

vote: ibaesha

[flyingm00c0w]

(Ibaesha: Sorry, I didn't see your post before I posted. I retract my accusation that your accusations were unfounded.)

Here's the deal. Yes, I'm a noob; I'm not completely familiar with all your so-called conventions and terminology. That's why it bothers me when somebody says "This person is scummy because he did this, and that's a scum tell."

No, it's not a scum tell.

It's only a scum tell because nobody does it anymore because way-back-when, somebody arbitrarily labeled it a scum tell and people stopped doing it.

Example? Here:

Scum like claims.

On whose authority can you say that? All it seems to me is that you're taking whatever personal observations you've made and elevating them to the level of law. That's a fallacy.

Another one:

moocow wrote:
"Then again. Lloyd, you mentioned that it was suspicious that Pooky roleclaimed without a name. I'd like to point out that cam didn't offer up a name either. Can you give us one so we can be more confident in you, Cam?"


This is fishing. Fishing is scummy.

I thought I was making a point and advancing the game. Apparently not. And I still don't get what makes "fishing" scummy.

And for the first post that bothered you so much: Why did I find Fritzler's actions so confusing? Because they were irrational. Did I believe he actually read adele? Not for a second. When there is a web of possible motives, no matter how complex, the situation is infinitely easier to analyze than when things just

happen

. And I'm getting used to the fact that with Fritzler, things just

happen

. At the time, I did indeed suspect Fritzler. He's just wacky enough to kill off a teammate.

I didn't "fake" anything. I was confused. I said so. I thought honesty was supposed to count for something in this game.

As for my post-pooky-lynch post: I was just trying to make a contribution to the discussion, and though my analyis was late, I thought it still had some value. (Full disclosure: I don't camp on the thread 24/7) I like to spend some effort on posting, so I voiced exactly what was on my mind. Apparently, that was scummy too.

If you can, ibaesha, try to see it from my perspective. From the start you've been pointing your finger at me, but offering no explanation other than "m00c0w feels scummy." Well thank you very much i love you too, but the burden of proof was on you. You offered nothing.
The scummiest thing I've done, imo, is suggest the paranoid cop bit. That's because to me, your suspicion was coming entirely from left base. So I spent some time trolling the mafia wiki, and came across that bit, which I now realize bears a creepy resemblance to Pooky's weird cop-framer accusation early in the game.

You still haven't told me about the rationale behing your "coron should make a big surprise with his ability, and anybody who doesn't say so is scum!" argument. That one sticks in my mind because you were clearly targeting it at me and greywolf. And am I using your own argument back at you? Darn right I am. I'm happy you noticed the irony.

[flyingm00c0w]

Pretty sure I didn't call anything you did a 'scumtell'. I stated why I thought certain things were suspicious. I did say 'scum like claims' and 'scum fake reactions'. But neither of those can really be classified as a 'tell' IMO.

Nitpicky. That's a scum tell for sure. [/sarcasm]

Also: I never once thought my opinion about how Coron should use his powers was in any way scummy. You added that perspective.

This is actually a rather minor point of my suspicions (more of a reinforcement of previous suspicions), and the fact that you're so focused on it is interesting.

I'm not mentioning this as a response you your suspicions. I'm bringing it up because it is the scummiest thing you've done so far.

oh and

unvote

. I meant to do that earlier in response to your (voluminous) thread-annotation post. Cleared some things up.