...and they all lived happily ever after

Yosarian2 · Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:44 am

Yeah...I would have expected the scum to kill on the last night, personally. No-kill once is fine, in the hopes that the town will give in and lynch the next day in order to avoid a draw, but the second no-kill was probably not the correct move.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #8 (isolation #1) » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:46 am

petroleumjelly wrote:
Anyhow, I do have to agree with DP, this would be a "losing" tie since neither side fulfilled their winning conditions. *shrugs*

Eh...a tie is a tie. I'd think of it like a "perpetual check" or "stalemate" draw in chess; neither side can win, so neither side can lose. And if you don't think you'll win in chess, playing for the draw is a good idea; I'd think the same would be true in mafia.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #15 (isolation #2) » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:58 am

Lloyd wrote: Yosarian2, I play for fun, even if my moves are seen as incorrect

No offense intended lloyd; I'm just analyzing the game like I would a game of chess. (shrug) If, like in a chess tourniment , a draw is worth .5 points and a win is worth 1 point, then it's always best to play for the win if you've got better then a 50/50 chance of winning. Of course, that's just me doing general theorycraft about mafia in general, and dosn't really have anything to do with your motives in that one game.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #17 (isolation #3) » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:10 am

Of course, you have to be careful playing for a draw...if the town's winning condition was "kill all the scum", and the scum's winning condition was "have at least 1 scum left alive at the end of the game", then the scum would win and the town would lose in a "happily ever after" ending.

And the town would have no way of knowing they would lose an ending like that, because they wouldn't know the scum's win conditions...

Yosarian2 · Post Post #26 (isolation #4) » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:17 am

Turbovolver wrote:I don't like the "happily ever after" stuff created by this situation (and similar situations). I think no lynch should be removed... there's no real flavour reasons for it to be removed, but it just strikes me as
off
. Then again, a similar argument could be made for forcing the mafia to kill every night

I just don't think it's good sportsmanship to turn mafia games into games of chicken, especially over merely improving your chances.

As I think about it, I think giving the mafia freedom and forcing the town to lynch is the best plan. The mafia are supposed to be the deceptive ones, so I think they should be given the chance to deceive townies by no-killing... town no-lynching is kinda weak imo.

Problem is, without a flavour justification for disallowing no-lynch I'm not comfortable with that idea either

(shrug) Mafia is to some extent a numbers game. One of the thing that makes it interesting is that there are different stratagies one can follow, including no-lynch. It adds more options to the game, and that's especally interesting when you have someone arguing for or against a plan you think is good for the town; are they scum who are trying to get the town to make a wrong choice, or do they just disagree with you? I think the no-lynch option really adds to the day-game, which badly needs as many different options as is practical in order to keep it interesting and to give people things to argue about.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #29 (isolation #5) » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:21 am

PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:So Don Lloyd went soft on us enh? Couldn't pull the trigger? Cooperating with the Feds? In the witness protection program in Santa Clara? Possibly thinking of cutting a deal?

I'll have the hit squad on their way.

He shall not bring shame to the family!

Neah. Heat just got to be too much, he just needed to lay low for a while. Don't worry, though; once everyone calms down and forgets about this crazy lynching stuff, he'll finish the job.

Yosarian2 · Post Post #31 (isolation #6) » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:28 pm

Mr. Flay wrote:
JechtMurray wrote:Meh, he just wants to say that the game ended in a first. We'll probably hear about it for quite a while.
Quoted for Truth. "Wanting to be the first draw" is not a good reason to base your in-game decisions in, in my opinion. The mafia WILL kill again, or else they're not scum. And if they're not scum, then they have no place in a Newbie Game.

If my "town" in Res. Dogs had chosen to run when there were still "scum" (undercover cops) left, they'd have LOST the game. I'm beginning to wish Stoofer hadn't intervened.

The way I see it is, it's like a perpertual check draw in chess. Sure, the game COULD end eventually, but so long as both players just keep moving back and fourth, it never will. At some point, if moving back and forth forever is the optimal play for both sides at each step of the way, one can just assume that they would keep doing so forever given the chance and call it a draw.

At least, that's the way it works in chess. (shrug)