Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!

[MeMe]

vote: Flay

[MeMe]

My sentiments exactly.

[MeMe]

And I'm surprised/horrified at a "Me too" response from MeMe.

I voted you for exactly that reason

before

elvis explained her vote. Not a "me too" -- it's an "exactly," just as I said. I had no idea that her vote was anything other than random.

In addition, I'll almost guarantee that there's scum on my wagon, because all three came in initially with NO REASON whatsoever for their vote.

I'm "on record" as often not providing a reason for my early votes. A non-verbalized reason isn't the same as a nonexistent reason.

[MeMe]

Does anyone want to discuss the 'rooms' aspect of this game, in addition to who we will lynch? I'd prefer that it be done out in the open for now, so that scum can get trapped by their lies/choices; later in the game once roles are out, it may become important to have that choice be made secretly.

Yes -- though I'd prefer that we didn't start assigning who goes where. Depending on how the game is set up, that could be just the information that the scum needs. If they either need to be in a room with someone to kill them or have to target a specific room, knowing where people are going to be might make it too easy. I'm assuming that with 10 people it has to be balanced by either having 2 scum who have extra knowledge (perhaps using secret passages not available to the rest of us?) OR having the scum's ability to hit made somewhat more difficult due to the rooms aspect.

Perhaps we could do something like naming certain rooms that are available for use tonight? That way everyone could choose freely from the specified rooms -- and that makes it possible for the scum to enter or target a room that no one's in. We should also consider avoiding the corner rooms (Study/Conservatory/Kitchen/Lounge) in case the scum can move between them.

It's quite possible there's some obvious flaw in limiting room choices -- please speak up if you see a problem or have a better suggestion.

unvote: Flay

[MeMe]

elvis and I can "talk" tonight. Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.

I don't get this. What do you mean that you and elvis can "talk" tonight? You're obviously not masons or you'd not suspect one another. And scum are people who

do

talk at night, so if BJ doesn't do that...well...

And Tamuz -- you seem to be working hard to curry favor (with Mr. Flay?) while keeping me labeled "scummy."

[MeMe]

elvis and I can "talk" tonight. Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.

I don't get this. What do you mean that you and elvis can "talk" tonight? You're obviously not masons or you'd not suspect one another. And scum are people who

do

talk at night, so if BJ doesn't do that...well...

That's an inane analysis of what I said. If I was scum, would I announce it? If we (elvis and I) were masons, would we announce it D1? Obviously "talk" (quotes mine) was an analogy for the fact that I feel I can prove my role/innocence by being in the room with at least one other person tonight.

Wow. Such vitriol. It wasn't an "analysis" (inane or otherwise) -- it was me saying I didn't understand what you meant. I think you can admit that you worded it unnecessarily weirdly.

Tamuz - seriously, what's up? You're following me around the game voting for my people, and what's the "Flay Gaurentee" supposed to be?

Tamuz's reference to your guarantee came quite a while back -- why didn't you send up a flag about it earlier? If anyone should've noticed/commented on its weirdness, it should've been you.

I think he overestimates the "obviously" part of that sentence, given that two people asked about it, but his explanation is a reasonable one.

Flay's explanation may be reasonable -- but his attitude is, in my opinion, quite defensive.

Flay, please convince me that you haven't simply talked yourself out of the possibility of being lynched today by pretending that you'll be able to prove yourself tonight. I unvoted you because suggesting that we discuss the room aspect seemed more pro- than anti-town to me...but now I'm second-guessing that and wondering if it was simply diversionary.

And now something else I've been pondering: since I agree that it's unlikely that scum will be able to nuke an entire room, I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, scum has to be in the room with only ONE innocent in order to make a kill (which seems sensible as survivors would probably witness any murder).

[MeMe]

I need to see a count, please!

[MeMe]

vote: TSAGod

And why

not

?

[MeMe]

i dont think "why not" is a good enough reason pg 5...

We're on page five

no thanks

to TSAGod -- he should have to

tell

me why not to vote him.

Definitely a "good enough" reason.

[MeMe]

So...what's shakin'?

[MeMe]

Just checking in to say I'm still quite happy with my vote.

[MeMe]

I still like my vote.

But if it winds up being a choice between the vote leaders (not that it HAS to, mind you, but the stated deadline gives us hardly any time) -- Tamuz looks more suspicious than kops to me.

Orbiting

-- could you firm up that deadline with an actual time? It's so near that the number of hours we've got seems vital information.

[MeMe]

I've been handed a time-consuming work project that makes it likely that this will be my last check-in before deadline hits. Just a heads-up.

Regardless, I'm not inclined to move my vote off of TSAGod, especially as he seems, if Flay's count is correct, to be a vote leader right now.

[MeMe]

While she's there, could you ask her for an official count?

[MeMe]

^^at Flay, obv.

[MeMe]

OK -- so I'm addicted to the site and can't stay away even with projects looming...

That said, I'll keep my vote.

[MeMe]

Are you suggesting he be replaced?

And I'd like to hear from Flay before we do too much.

[MeMe]

Yesterday's claim...

If I live, I can provide quite a bit of information about that room, enough to clear me, I believe.

...is rather different that what you've supplied today. Also, you seem to contradict yourself here...

I see actions done by others in the room. Therefore if elvis had any night actions (or anyone else who bothered to come here early), I'd have seen what she did, and been able to back her up.

bigAl, are you saying you moved between two rooms at night? I wonder why I didn't see you come in...

You say you see actions -- but then question why you wouldn't have simply seen bigAl (who didn't claim an action even if he HAD been in the room, right?).

It was my assumption that you were claiming to be able to find out elvis's role or alignment at the

very least

. If I'm to believe your claim, I also have to believe that you deliberately limited your "quite a bit of information" by asking for a private audience with elvis (with belated request for Tamuz to join -- saying that "even a vanilla townie can be proven, at times..." another hint that your role doesn't do what you claim it does) -- but since you made your intention to gather information clear, if she's scum it seems plain that she'd probably have skipped her action...which you should have foreseen rather than declaring that you'd likely be able to get enough info to clear yourself.

I'm also confused by the "anyone else who bothered to come here early" phrase. What does that mean?

And this I know is nitpicky, but once suspicions are raised, I look closely...

My instinct says our kill was blocked last night.

Our

kill?

Am I missing something obvious? If so, please explain. Until you do...

vote: Mr. Flay

[MeMe]

Where in all of that do you get the impression that I was limiting myself to just one person?

It came from post #60...

elvis will be sufficient, we don't have to assign everyone a room. I choose the Conservatory, by the way, elvis. Unless you would feel more comfortable picking the room.

I thought you were saying that elvis is sufficient

company

in the room but, on closer examination, I see that it probably referred to room assignments altogether -- not just in the Conservatory.

So...if more people had gone to the Conservatory, it

may

have been enough to clear you with the role you're claiming. Alright.

unvote: Mr. Flay

[MeMe]

Noodling About Vote Count:

Bamboomancer: 2 (MeMe, Mr. Flay)

First time I've

ever

been confused with BabyJesus.

I agree that it's probably smarter to sit on last night's room choices until we understand the game a bit better: whatever happened last night

worked

-- could have been doc, block, or that mafia was thwarted by not knowing where to go.

[MeMe]

I have a hunch if we all know what room people went to, we may be able to isolate and trap scum later on,

BJ -- could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

[MeMe]

I thought you were saying that we'd be able to force scum in a room together if we find out past choices. To me, that's what your earlier post seems to imply (isolate/trap).

[MeMe]

vote: Bamboomancer

Despite the fact that I agree that revealing last night's room choices seems unhelpful at this point -- I see more of a case against him than against either BJ or e_k. Yesterday he had two nothing posts and today all of his posts have been one-note.

[MeMe]

Reasoning is similar to lurker reasoning to me.

If he were lurking, that'd be one thing. But he's actually here but not contributing anything other than wails of protest that anyone might dare suspect him.

She did use more substantial reasing to attack Flay twice, and backed off both times. If I have time today, I'll post why her second attack on Flay seemed weird to me. I know part of the reason is because she backed down.

If you have actual content to go with your "weird" allegation, I'd love to hear it. Dumping "she's suspicious -- if I have time I'll say why" seems rather suspicious, to me. But I can wait.

In the meantime, though, I'll explain the "backing off," despite the fact that both unvotes of Flay have been explained already.
--Yesterday -- being the first to suggest that we discuss the room aspect seemed more pro- than anti-town to me.
--Today -- I thought I'd found contradiction in what he claimed his role could do/what it actually did, but he explained the mechanics of his claimed role to my satisfaction and my "case" evaporated. I'm not that proud -- I'll change my mind when explanation/information warrants it.

[MeMe]

elvis -- all of this has already been covered by Mr. Flay and me (#206/208). Do you somehow find my responses to Flay's explanation to be "weird"? Because

I

find it weird that you've ignored my clarifications (specifically where I got "private audience" from -- post #60, as stated in #208) and instead have decided to call term it a possible "twist" rather than accepting it as a misunderstanding.

I also find it odd that you claim to have

assumed

that there was no conflict, when I think I showed quite well why I thought there was. He said he thought he'd be able to clear himself with what he found out overnight...this morning, he couldn't do it. Certainly looked inconsistent to me -- and I'm not the only one who 1) saw inconsistencies between what Flay said yesterday and what he's said today (bigAl - 207, Fuldu - 213, you - 216) and, for that matter, I'm not the only one who backed off of him after an explanation was offered... (see posts 216 and 221). True, I actually placed my vote where my suspicions were and you didn't...but hey. Doesn't change the fact that you said you "thought you found something" against him and dropped it once it was explained --

just like me

(of course, in your case, you accused him over something he'd already explained -- which is kind of weird, considering the fact that you claimed to buy everything he'd said. One would think you'd have actually have to have

read

what he'd said before claiming to believe it).

That said,

I'm

not sure of Flay's claim, either -- what I

do

know is that my objection to his claim fell apart after he explained. You needn't revisit how my case doesn't hold up as I've already admitted as much. What you probably

do

need to explain is why, if you truly thought my vote post was suspicious, it took you almost two weeks to say anything about it.

unvote: Bamboomancer
vote: elvis_knits

[MeMe]

When someone accuses me for a weak attack with a

weaker

attack, I tend to think that's suspicious enough for a vote change.

[MeMe]

Could you please direct me to some of your opinions?

[MeMe]

A vote count might help us all get back into the swing of this...

[MeMe]

Are we at a standstill, then?

[MeMe]

I'm quite comfy with my vote on elvis. I've seen zero reason to change it.

[MeMe]

What do you mean "he can't be targetted by mafia"?

[MeMe]

Docs don't

generally

have the ability to self-protect.

[MeMe]

Can we get a count to go along with that deadline?

[MeMe]

And everyone should be able to tell by my unmoved vote that I believe

elvis

is scum.

[MeMe]

Scum simply submitted room destinations -- which we did N1. There was no miss on our part. Until night choices are revealed, there's no way to know why none of the three of us (all in different rooms) were unsuccessful in killing

any

one.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the game, Orbiting. I'm sorry I wasn't able to play it out! And EmpTyger: thanks

so much

for taking over for me and playing the heck out of the role. Took away all of the guilt of leaving to know that the role was being played better than I would've done.

[MeMe]

last post