Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Kublai Khan]

No, BrianMcQueso. If I was lying to town I would have sent realistic Amnesiac Cop-esque missives to unsuspecting players. Instead my messages were goofy and easily dismissed. The only people seizing on their authenticity would be scum trying to build cases on them.

You're a veteran enough player to know that "LYING IS BAD" isn't as clear-cut as it was when you were a newbie.

Also, you neglected to answer my question about why you didn't vote for Cognito Ergo Sum.

[BrianMcQueso]

I was skeptical about the messages. Did you see me go after Kison when he was labeled a cult recruiter? I was more open about the double-voting thing because it would be so damn easy to verify or disprove...but then it became unverifiable. Did you want me to vote him anyway? Would you prefer if I had followed your terrible lies, despite the fact that you had coincidentally labeled CES as a scum? Should I have tried to lynch Kison too, for being a "cult recruiter"? Would that have been the right play for me?

You can't tell me your messages are lies and then in the next breath say that I should have followed them.

You're a veteran enough player to know that "LYING IS BAD" isn't as clear-cut as it was when you were a newbie.

It's true. LlamaFluff lied to the town (or did he?), and he turned out to be a cop. That still doesn't make lying to the town OK. Am I supposed to tolerate this kind of behavior? Let's just play Mafia where everyone lies. That'll make it much easier for to find the scum.

How does what you did advance your win condition? One moment you're telling us you're just trying to survive to endgame, and then you tell us you're trying to not hunt scum because it would draw attention to yourself, and then next you're telling us you

were

trying to hunt scum by gauging reactions. Make up your mind: what in the hell are you trying to accomplish?

[Zindaras]

Eh.. You can rule me out as a serial killer then. There's no way I would have left vig-Albert B. Rampage alive if I had the ability to kill.

*shrugs*

Neither would I, but then again, it's not really smart to trust self-discussed metas.

I thought about those options. Pre-claiming didn't seem to be a viable option. A messenger is inherently a scummy role. Go back and check how many people immediately called the note-sender scum. Check your own reaction. The only thing dramonic has done is confirm me as the note-sender and you're not backing down from voting, so pre-claiming was a horrible idea.

I've played messenger as town before (or, at the very least, I've seen it or variations of it as town), but when the first message sent is such a misleading and scummy message, it's guaranteed to be played by scum. Basically, by sending that message, you destroyed any and all possibility of ever just claiming town messenger. That's not a good survivor strategy in anyone's book.

And I could have sent nothing. But.. I think my strategy was okay. I generated reactions without really placing anyone in danger of being lynched and I find that slip-ups when reacting to unexpected information is a great way to catch scum.

Oh, yes, of course,

that

was the plan all along. So why don't town messengers play like that?

The reactions to the messages are public record and now that you know that the messages are gibberish. Since Cognito Ergo Sum flipped scum, I bet you could check the reactions from the beginning of Day 3 to find someone altogether too sure of my note's lack of authenticity.

I see you've already promised this, but go ahead. If you are a survivor, this is the part where you become the town's best friend.

100% pro-mafia? Wow, that's quite a statistic. I was voting scum for all of Day 2 and Day 3. I just wasn't standing up and making grandiose speeches to get my head shot off like Amrun, or Yosarian2, or Primate, or etc..

Brian already quoted the "I thought that if I was too accurate in hunting scum, they might want to eliminate me." line, but basically, that. Not hunting scum, sending messages trying to confuse the town, that's as anti-town as it gets. Your survival doesn't matter.

First, voting to lynch me is pretty much the same move as voting for a no-lynch.

No, it's not, that's the whole point of showing it.

Second, if either of the scum teams think I'm a member of the other scum team, then I'm proper fucked. If Albert B. Rampage is a vig and not a SK (or scum), then I'm probably proper fucked as well. So if you're thinking that I'm scum who thinks survivor is a grandiose strategy, then you're an idiot. The chance of me being NKed is very, very strong. Especially at this point which is when scum are trying to cross-kill.

So you wouldn't claim survivor because you'd be screwed if people didn't believe that claim? Let me put it this way: if people believe your claim (which is the point of claiming) then no scumteam will touch you. Vigbert might...but Vigbert is essentially our second lynch, so lynching you or vigging you doesn't really make any difference (except, of course, if you're NK-immune).

Third, stuff like "If we go down to 7 with 3 Matrix scum and a Survivor, they win." is offensively false. That's not an auto-loss, that scenario just makes me a king-maker unless one of the town votes wrongly. Stop lying.

So you're telling me that you wouldn't just pile the fourth vote on whichever wagon stops by?

I don't see the setup as having three 3-man Mafia groups. That's a bit stacked against the town (36% of the game is scum?), and I can't think of a third anti-town group flavor-wise. If it was two 4-man groups, who are the two extra members of the Twins group? Clearly, The Merovingian is on that team, but I can't think of any other characters that would be. Persephone was more pro-town, if anything. If it's a setup with 3 Agents, Merovingian + Twins, and a serial killer Agent Smith, that makes 7 anti-town (28%). That seems reasonable to me, also considering our low number of power roles.

I'm thinking the Trainman. Also, crosskills destroy scum in that setup. Scum is highly unlikely to make it to endgame with two group members intact. That's nasty stuff. 28% in itself is nice but only if you have one scumteam. With two scumteams, the game gets skewed towards the town really badly. Town shouldn't have more than a 33% chance to win a game with two scumteams.

Also, I would gander that Dramonic's Matrix unplug role would kill any programs it targeted (can't unplug a program). Weird stuff though.

[Kublai Khan]

How does what you did advance your win condition? One moment you're telling us you're just trying to survive to endgame, and then you tell us you're trying to not hunt scum because it would draw attention to yourself, and then next you're telling us you

were

trying to hunt scum by gauging reactions. Make up your mind: what in the hell are you trying to accomplish?

It accomplished both. For those first few days it helped keep attention off of me. Now that I'm exposed, it can be used as a scum-hunting tool.

(I'll answer the rest later)

[Kison]

I am heavily inclined to believe that one of Sens or TF is Hez's scum buddy. Looking at the interactions between Sens an Hez though, I don't think scum would be that willing to attack each other head on. It seems more likely that the interaction between Hez and TF is that of scum partners, and between the two of them, I am leaning more at TF.. What do others think?

This is weird. You state you think either Toon Fighter or SensFan is buddied with HezLucky, but also state that you don't think that SensFan and HezLucky would fight against each other like they did if they were scum together. What exactly about their interactions leads you to believe they are scum together, if not that?

It is also peculiar that despite your belief throughout most of the game that I am suspicious, despite SensFan being near the bottom of your radar throughout most of the game, and despite me being at an equal score as SensFan on HezLucky's list, that you are going after SensFan over me.

[Kison]

Kublai Khan: Who are the scum?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote Count #25:

Only the One can open the door. And only during that window can that door be opened. - The Keymaker

Kublai Khan - 3 (dramonic, Zindaras, BrianMcQueso)

SensFan - 1 (Medicated Lain)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

The Day 4 Deadline is Saturday, July 9th at 11:00 pm CST

Prodding SensFan and Porochaz.

[SensFan]

Platant prod response. Been busy the last few days and haven't been on Scum. Will catch up today.

[Medicated Lain]

I am heavily inclined to believe that one of Sens or TF is Hez's scum buddy. Looking at the interactions between Sens an Hez though, I don't think scum would be that willing to attack each other head on. It seems more likely that the interaction between Hez and TF is that of scum partners, and between the two of them, I am leaning more at TF.. What do others think?

This is weird. You state you think either Toon Fighter or SensFan is buddied with HezLucky, but also state that you don't think that SensFan and HezLucky would fight against each other like they did if they were scum together. What exactly about their interactions leads you to believe they are scum together, if not that?

It is also peculiar that despite your belief throughout most of the game that I am suspicious, despite SensFan being near the bottom of your radar throughout most of the game, and despite me being at an equal score as SensFan on HezLucky's list, that you ae going after SensFan over me.

I don't really think it's that weird. I am going through my list of suspects. It's true I should read Sensfan again, and all my suspects for that matter, but I am picking through my list of who I think is scum. Hez didn't really actively try to lynch you, Sens and TF were his two biggest targets. It seemed less likely reading at Sens's posts with Hez that he was scum than he was with TF. TF wasn't his partner, and I am still inclined to believe that Hez was in a position of trying to throw a partner under the wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai Khan: Who are the scum?

I said give me a few days to analyze.

I swear people don't read a goddamned thing after past a claim.

[Porochaz]

Anti replacement post. More tomorrow.

[Ranmaru]

I'll be posting something toDay. Been a bit busy. : D

[Zindaras]

Lain: why are you not voting Kublai? I think I've clearly shown that he needs to die.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Almost 24 hours without a post. Don't make me force a shorter deadline.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Tick tock...

[Porochaz]

Hi MoS This is a response. I am reading over once Im fully awake.

[Kublai Khan]

Almost 24 hours without a post. Don't make me force a shorter deadline.

They're waiting on me. I should have something up today.

[SensFan]

So, I agree with Zindaras' response that we basically just have to lynch KK today. If the game ever reaches LyLo, then we lose if KK is still alive, so lynching him doesn't actually cost us a lynch. Not going to put a vote on KK until after his 'scumhunting' post, because I don't want any shenanigans like what happened yesterday, but consider my vote there for the purposes of people wanting him dead.

[BrianMcQueso]

We don't need check-in posts, we need opinions.

Preferably about Kublai Khan's claim and the discussion that resulted from it, but I'll take anything you guys got at this point.

Here's the quick version for those catching up:

Dramonic (#1966) has a tracking result on Kublai Khan.

Kublai Khan (#1970) claims Oracle, the messanger that has been sending the strange messages to other players. He claims his win condition as a neutral survivor, winning as long as he survives to endgame.

Zindaras (#1979) doesn't buy it. (He voted for KK a few posts previous)

BrianMcQueso (#1989) doesn't believe it.

The rest is discussion about the believability of KK's claim.

[Porochaz]

The problem with the defence that the messages were easily dismissable is false. KK is either a survivor and is telling the truth or he is scum. Regardless he can't remain alive.

vote KK

[SensFan]

Note that that makes L-2. No one else vote KK, please.

[Porochaz]

Why not? I think its pretty clear cut.

[SensFan]

I explained a few posts ago. I don't want another self-hammer.

[Porochaz]

Well out of the two options 1 being he lynches himself as scum and the other which would go entirely against his wincon I dont see the problem.

[SensFan]

The problem being that I don't want another scum self-hammer to stifle discussion.