Open 316 - Hard Boiled (Day Two)

[DarkFlashlight]

Dayum, you guys confirm fast.

/confirm

If there was/is a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning through a massclaim and synchronization of actions, would you be in favour of doing so?

If this is solely hypothetical, it's null. No one's going to say no because rejecting, "a way to significantly increase the town's chances of winning," is lolwut. If it's not hypothetical, then feel free to elaborate.

Hoopla, I think you've confused quite a few people. Were you intending for the massclaim to happen D1?


VOTE: neil1113

A massclaim at the beginning of the game? I feel like that'd kind of ruin the game on a lot of levels, plus it'd give the scum the chance to know who to kill. We'd have our Power Roles out'd and most likely gone by Day 3.

You realize everyone knows that, right?

preview edit: FoS: neil1113 for stating the obvious. I think that's page 32 of "Looking Like Town for Dummies."

Oh, so you've read it also?

[DarkFlashlight]

Wonderful, it seems Andrew isnt the only VI walking around in here.

I loathe this. I made a list of reasons why:
1. Saying someone is a VI is insulting. It will not make anyone like you if you call someone stupid. "But you don't have to be liked to be town!" True, you have to be helpful. Pointing out VI's is about as helpful as BEING a VI. If someone truly is screwing up the game, we'll all catch it, no need to be the warning siren.
2. Saying someone is a VI is calling them town. Assuming you're also town, why are you dragging down a teammate? Regardless of not helping you don't need to stir up something stupid when you know there will be no results.
3. You're basing it off 3 pages. I hardly find that an appropriate amount of time to write someone off completely.
4. It's so elitist that I want to punch you. By saying that, you're not only saying that you don't care about what they say, you're telling everyone else that they should look at that person with low regards.





Moving on to actually important things.

Hoopla, you've been mighty discrete. I believe most if not everyone is willing to try your crazy strategy, but you seem to be keeping it underwraps. You even said that after you say it, we don't have to do it, so why are you so hesitant?


LittleGrey, you made a whole account so that no one could use meta on you? That comes off as apprehensive. Surely you thought of that before you made the account.

[DarkFlashlight]

Aw, that's so cute. Be patient, one of my questions will be aimed at you eventually, Amrun.

Here you go, just for irony:

Spoiler: Unnecessary ISO

/confirm

Zmuffin are you scum y/n

Your avatar begs to differ.

I wouldn't mind a massclaim - if one has never been tried before.

The previous hard boiled was the first one town ever won, so if this is a new idea for this set up, I'll consider it (but not necessarily agree).

But I am slightly worried because I've seen Hooplascum manipulate the numbers before... She is the queen of numbers.

But I agree that a massclaim shuldnt happen until we have some gameplay with which to judge counterclaims etc

VOTE: LittleGrey

You FoS someone pre-game and then RVS vote someone else while maintaining your FoS might be scum?

Hell. No.


Also, zmuffin, don't rub it in.

Hoopla (and all) what do you think of littlegrey's vote shenanigams?

I am interested in hearing Hoopla's gamebreaking plan for evaluation.

Re: LittleGrey - I'm not sure why she RVS vote when she has a suspicion. She even calls it an RVS vote, which to me is just.... wonky. There's enough content now, there's no need to cast an RVS vote.

That much is obvious. I want to know what you think that says about his alignment.

What about smuffin's speculation was scummy, swank?

Oversoul, zmuffin was making fun of me because I shot a claimed psychologist n1 of the last hardboiled and the hider hid behind me and I was nearly lynched - but we lynched scum instead and then I shot scum and we won.

Zmuffin and I were both in that game.

LittleGrey, I saw you say something about "your main account" somewhere. What is it?

Well, it was to describe the vig, not the detective. But yes, it was referring to me and my fail and then subsequent win.

Okay, but you are not a newbie. That is what is really important.

That means I'm happier with my vote on you.

DarkFlashlight, you have an otter icon so I love you, but please try something more closely resembling content soon.

If that's the definition of content, I actually think I'm doing fine. Oh, btw, I put asterisks by your name on the times that you did...anything.

Everyone is waiting for more information Hoopla's grand plan, yourself included. Please stop playing pretentious, it's greatly annoying.

Also, Im pretty sure alot of people here will agree that andrew is a VI or IS every game. I was stating before anyone suggests: Oh, PL! Oh PL!

You'll notice I didn't mention any names in that post. I wasn't referring to Andrew at all. But sharing your thoughts isn't a bad thing. Anyway, dragging you away from that, why point out VI's if you don't want to policy lynch them?

[DarkFlashlight]

But I called Andrew AND LittleGrey a VI in the post you complained about.

Policy Lynches are stupid if it's just because of a VI meta.

This is what I was trying to get out.

I never state my FULL reasoning for anything in one post. I'd rather see peoples reaction and now I have yours. In my opinion, Reactions to other statements provide the biggest reads in the game.

Calling them VI's was what triggered my tirade, not what it was about. Not that I blame you for reading it that way, or even that it's bad that you did, I'm just explaining.

I'm curious as to what you thought of my reaction.

I didn't say I was great paragon of content - as it is very early game - but the fact remains that several things have happened that ARE noteworthy and you have managed to avoid them all, Flashlight.

Well this is just not completely true. I'm not being very helpful now, and I know that, but there's very little to do only what, a day into the game? Just because I didn't address the things you thought were pressing doesn't mean that I'm not doing anything at all. Now if you'd like me to say something I thought a while ago, here. I read your case on LittleGrey, and while I think it's odd that a non-Newbie would do that, I ultimately don't think it's a scumslip or even too suspicious. We're essentially in unofficial RVS with an emphasis on massclaim discussion, and Grey cited RVS as his reason for voting Hoopla. Hoopla, while I've never played with her, seems to have the reputation of an ace. It's always good to pressure someone who rarely makes mistakes. Is one RVS vote pressure? Not really, but it's more than 0 votes. Meanwhile, I read his case on Muffin as a joke, except the thing about voting before confirmations were in after seeing Jake do the same thing, which Muffin clearly said that he read, so it's null

*

. Furthermore, his thoughts on Jake's 'true intent' was simply a thought. He has no real reason to think there was intent behind it, it was just something to think about, and after thinking about it very briefly, I decided it was nothing, mostly since with my limited knowledge of the players on this site I didn't know Jake (or anyone else) viewed Andrew as a VI.

*

Why wait til the game starts?

I dunno how I feel about how Jake tried to RV someone he later called a VI, when he then went on to say that we shouldn't policy lynch VI's.

"But didn't you just say that Grey didn't have a point with 'Jake's true intent', then raise it yourself?" Yeah, but Jake hadn't said he was anti-PL when Grey posted that.


I have to sleep and stuff, but I'd love to address some of the other points I was neutral-silent on tomorrow. I'll likely still be neutral on most, but less silent.

[DarkFlashlight]

This was quite a hefty read for anyone who missed it, so slow responses are pretty normal.


Okay, let me try to break down the plan so that I know I understand it, and anyone else who reads this. Steps are written in order they would happen:
1. Everyone goes through and claims either det/psy or

not

det/psy. If there are no CC's we move on.
2. Hider tracker claims [in the same fashion]. If not CC'ed, move on.
3. Hider claims [also in the same fashion].
4. Four of the leftover [potential] 9 claim

not

vig.
5. The other 5 are in the vig pool, 4 Mafia/VT's+the real vig.
6. Lynch as normal, but only out of the 4 who claimed not vig.
7. Vig shoots one of the 4 other people in the vig pool.
Repeat steps 6 and 7.

Also throw in some possible help from the other PR's.


Now this ordeal over Hider is the biggest discussion thing it seems. Hider should definitely hide. Whether or not they say who they're hiding behind is more complicated. I have an idea. The likelihood of scum killing HT while at the same time hider hides with scum seems pretty little, but if you're worried why doesn't the tracker post two names. Who he'll hide with is between those two. Maf won't bother trying to hit him because assuming that both choices are townies, they don't want to be wrong and deplete part of the non-vig tank which doesn't have that many people in it and will assumedly have some scum. They don't want to narrow down the choices against their own odds. Now imagine there's one scum and one VT in the possibilities. This can only backfire if hider goes with the VT. Otherwise, scum will know that they can't kill scum, so they'll go with the VT if either of those two. Now stop and think about that. Hider died, and it might look like he died because he was hiding behind VT and VT was killed by scum, but wait! If scum used their kill on the VT, then HT can confirm that hider actually hide with the other, meaning that he's obviously scum. So this plan succeeds if the two are town, or if it's 50/50 and he hides with the scum, but fails if both are scum, or it's 50/50 and he hides with town (only if scum kill the VT). Also, obviously HT has to be alive for one of those scenarios.


The thing I can't seem to shake about your plan is, what if scum DO slash in the vig pool, and DO kill vig before D3? Then we'd have to dump the vig pool into the non-vig pool and all of our PR's would have been outted, resulting in a normal game, except with all of our PR's outted.

So I'm not necessarily in for this yet.

okay i understand that plan.
/agree

Lame.

Whoops, I forgot I was in this game.

I understand and agree to Hoopla's plan.

Lame.

[DarkFlashlight]

I'll go through with this plan we split the non-vigs into 3 and vigs into 6. That way, even if Maf still try to take out vig, by N3 with two vig kills and two Maf kills, they still only have a 50/50 chance of hitting him.


So I take it you two didn't like my hider idea?

[DarkFlashlight]

i dont like glowball

...


Swank already explained the plan, but I rewrote it for myself on page 5, and copying/pasting isn't time consuming:

Okay, let me try to break down the plan so that I know I understand it, and anyone else who reads this. Steps are written in order they would happen:
1. Everyone goes through and claims either det/psy or not det/psy. If there are no CC's we move on.
2. Hider tracker claims [in the same fashion]. If not CC'ed, move on.
3. Hider claims [also in the same fashion].
4. Three of the leftover [potential] 9 claim not vig.
5. The other 6 are in the vig pool, 5 Mafia/VT's+the real vig.
6. Lynch as normal, but only out of the 4 who claimed not vig.
7. Vig shoots one of the 5 other people in the vig pool.
Repeat steps 6 and 7.

Also throw in some possible help from the other PR's.

I updated steps 4 and 5 to fit recent adaptations.

I don't support refusing to catch up, but if you're not going to regardless, might as well not keep you in the dark.

No, because isn't the vig supposed to shoot from the non vig pool as well?

No. Vig is the only means of draining the vig pool, which is why it's so important he doesn't die.



The flaw seemed to me to be that if all three scum go in the vig pool, they have a 1/3, 1/2, 1/1 chance of hitting vig for the first three nights, so he'd definitely be dead on the third, and meanwhile we're only lynching VT's, BUT, if they do hit on N1 or N2 then it's obvious that there are a lot of scum in the vig pool, not the VT pool, and we switch where we're fishing from. It wouldn't be worth overlooking conftowns if there's only a 1/5 or 1/4 shot.

Why is the Vig killing those who don't claim? Is it just established that scum don't claim, because scum would very well claim vanilla to get by in this set up and then we'd be stuck between counter claims which aren't even really countered there will just be a whole bunch of townies.

Swank was using no-claim as a synonym for the vig pool. The vig and five Maf/VT's are the no-claims, not people who just haven't claimed.

[DarkFlashlight]

I refuse to read a plan that seems to have been re-worked several different times. Also, notice how I don't care. I said I was going V/LA you guys could be a little considerate on the posting and know that NO I don't want to read pages and pages of thoughts.

Goodness, calm down. It's either explain it to me, or have a clueless teammate which then would foil your plan because you'd want me lynched and then blah blah blah claim day 2 anyway. I don't have the patience for people being rude to me. I started off nice and all I ask for is the same WITHOUT THE ATTITUDE

lolwut. Swank and I BOTH explained the plan in not that many words. The only person who gave you 'attitude' was Andrew whose remark so was petty that you shouldn't have even remembered it.

Even if we waited for you to come back, you'd have the same amount to read at a different time.

Minds are made up and that's fine. I don't fully understand it or agree with it so I won't be participating in a mass claim day one. I would rather lynch the idea behind this to see if their motivation was in the right place and then go forward.

Honestly, Glowball, there have been four summaries (two, but each said twice), and then the full wall. You've had five opportunities to read the plan, which is the ONLY thing happening in this game, and you're refusing. Please stop hating town.

Sure, I will claim- last

Congrats on being the first person to claim. By saying you're claiming last, you actually put yourself into the role of possible-vig, because those are the people who are supposed to claim last.


Glowball, if you just would read the following seven short bulletpoints you might understand the plan. By being the person who refuses to catch up, you're being insanely anti-town:
1. Detective/psychologist claims. If not CC'ed*, go to #2:
2. Hider tracker claims. If not CC'ed*, go to #3:
3. Hider claims.

At this point there are five VT's+1 vig+3 scum=9 players unclaimed

4. Any three players (other than vig) claim not-vig.
5. The other 6 are 5 VT/scum and the real vig, thus hiding the vig so scum can't easily kill him.
6. Lynch as normal, but only out of the 3 who claimed not vig.
7. Vig shoots one of the 5 other people in the vig pool.
Repeat steps 6 and 7 for three nights (since on D4 the non-vigs would all be dead).

*If they are CC'ed, then we stop and deal with that before moving on to the later claims.


We're splitting 3/6, correct?

Mod, what's going on with Quilford, LitteGrey, and Jake?

Great.

Has everyone weighed in on the plan then?

Not Grey or Jake, but I'm expecting them to most likely replace.

[DarkFlashlight]

Hey DarkScum... keep up and stop quoting things that are no longer relevant. Yes, I went through saying I wouldn't re read but I have conceded defeat if this is how you've all decided to go... and I've read what everyone has written since I came back from V/LA. I don't care what you think about me claiming last it's no big deal if we are going in sections- I will claim last in every catagory as far as Not Dect/Psy or Dect/Psy.

As far as you painting me to be scummy...I'm apprehensive there is a difference, but wouldn't you love it if people thought I was scum.

The closest to "I've read the thread" that you ever said before that post was:

For the record, I am reading but if you guys are trying to hear my thoughts and speed up the process then you should help.

That clearly doesn't imply that you've read the thread, especially in collaboration with your other posts, like:

Nevermind- this is ridiculous it seems like you guys went through several options, so can someone just summarize the plan so I can say whether or not I agree.

I refuse to read a plan that seems to have been re-worked several different times. Also, notice how I don't care. I said I was going V/LA you guys could be a little considerate on the posting and know that NO I don't want to read pages and pages of thoughts.

Don't forget this quote, that was in the same post as the one on top that said you were in process of reading:

Also, the only reason I even ask and refuse to read is because I am against this plan.

You were against it before you read it?


Glowball, I freaked out on Amrun earlier too for un-team-esque banter (although I've grown to love her), but I don't even understand what you're talking about. No one is being noticeably mean to you, with the exception of "i don't like glowball", but any post with less than five words might as well not exist.

Don't care really... I am not trying to scumhunt because it's obvious it won't go anywhere so I'll sit back and draw what I can from your plan.

You already said you wanted to lynch Hoopla, then you called me scum. Not to mention, we're still lynching out of the non-vig pool, and we'll obviously lynch the most suspicious first, so you'll still get to scumhunt, you just only get to choose from 3 people.

People don't want to hear why I disagree and think about it

This just isn't true. Muffin and Hoopla had an enormous exchange over specifics of the plan and how it should work. If you have something to say, say it, we're obviously listening to you, pretty much this whole last page (and literally this entire post) was directed at you. We're not necessarily going through with the plan, but we will if you don't say something about why you don't like it.

I am. I just think we should lynch the founder of this plan and take it from there- Day 2 claims can still work, you'd just have to re work the plan if we find that it is in the town's best interest.

Why do you suspect Hoopla? Unless there's a flaw in the plan that I don't see, it's a very town-motivated ploy.


This whole post didn't use to be quotes from glowball, but then she ninja'd me and removed the other quote, so now it is. And you thought I didn't love you.


We still need to hear from Jake.

[DarkFlashlight]

HA.

Those who don't agree must be scum!!!!

I think Hoopla is scum, because I have yet to see a mass claim on day one that was town motivated. I think you are a sheep- but between you and Dark trying to paint me as scum, idk..

So everyone who carefully read and agreed to Hoopla's well-thought out plan are sheep, but if you rebel against it because you read "massclaim" and stopped caring there, you're town?

Also, multiple people saying you're acting anti-town doesn't mean they're a scumteam. It means you're being anti-town.


The massclaim is a good thing. Unless vig dies, it's hard for town to lose. What you should be worried about is the vig pool getting evaporated, not exposing PR's.

oh and by the way... I have just as much reason to think Hoopla is scum, as you have to think I am scum

Hoopla thinks Hoopla is scum for no reason specific to this game?


Also, I'm guessing you'll read this and think something similar to, "They said I could say no, but when I do they argue with me." That's because we disagree with your reason for saying no.

[DarkFlashlight]

Funny how AtF isn't going to stop my actions...you guys are fine and you've been fine, this is how I play and honestly I cannot take what you two say as much because both of you are on my radar as scum.

You've coined Hoopla, Amrun, Muffin, and I all as scum now. Assuming we do the plan against your will, you can't

even

lynch all of us.

you guys are just shooting me down because I don't want to fall in line with your plan and I am being difficult

Nonono. We're shooting you down because we disagree with your reasons for not following the plan.

I am not against being lynched, I just won't be talked to rudely on boards or IRL.

I feel like it's long overdue to ask what your definition of rude is.


Glowball's flame of fame has pretty much burnt out, I'm waiting for Jake to catch up now.


UNVOTE: Neil1113
It was supposed to be a reaction test, but we got really sidetracked, so there never even was a reaction.

[DarkFlashlight]

Okay I took the time to look over this plan

Please explain this.

Amrun makes me nervous, because she has a "really townie" feel about her. But I'm very tempted to fall into a too townie fallacy with her, so I'm trying not to think about her too much.

What about Hoopla?

Well I could explain it but it would probably be a bit confusing, because I have charted out almost every possibility for the splits to go and NKs and Lynches, Vig kills.

Where did you do this? A piece of paper?

[DarkFlashlight]

Oh, we're naming scumbets now? I'd rather wait for more activity from Oversoul, Quilford, Jake, and LittleGrey before I go down that road so publicly, because not having enough input from 1/3 of the players seems to skew my results.

[DarkFlashlight]

And FoS on DarkFlashlight. It's absurd to suggest that you want to wait for more posts on D1. We at least have some RVS content.

I think you misunderstood. First of all, RVS consisted of like 5 votes, so there really wasn't much there, but regardless, I didn't mean I don't have any scumpicks, I meant I'm not going to call out the three people I think might be scum when there are four that I can't read from yet. All three could technically be in that pile, making choosing rather futile.


Yeah, as Muffin and LittleGrey said, Neil didn't slip. If there's a flaw in the plan that's beneficial to scum, it'd be better that it be exposed and maybe fixed than gambling that scum won't find [or haven't already found] it.

Andrew and zmuffin have an off-site history. Don't know why he didn't say this himself... Take what you will from that.

I know MrBump and the probable replacement (pacman) from off-site. But I figured, why tell you about the pact that Marill and I have that makes me win because he didn't say there was a jester in the setup?


I'm curious as to why Jake is so out of it. If it's lack of motivation or just a busy schedule, he should replace. If he was just occupied for a little while he can stay.

[DarkFlashlight]

I just love it when people try to fake town slips- they always sound so ignorant. Now I am not opposed to anyone being attacked and saying straight up "I am town" it's not helpful, but it's just more honest then playing dumb. Oversoul, if you are in 3 games and none of those seem to be newbie games although you only have 67 posts I am going to assume you have some offsite experience and I am also going to assume you've read the role PMs provided by the Mods on the first page of every game- MEANING you KNOW there is a QT and pretending that you don't know is just playing dumb. Town slip=failed.

I was gonna say the same thing in a lot less words.

Muffin, you are null-leaning scum.

That's not what it sounded like.

When Hoopla said she suspected you so strongly, I took a look back and noticed some of the same things as Oversoul.

Secrets don't make friends. Why would you not mention scummy things?

Oversoul you are scum. You are active lurking scum, who's decision to suddenly become active was based on the opportunity to corner neil since many player have some suspicions of him already.

This would make sense with trying to incite a wagon...but he didn't even vote. That could spark a whole new debate, but regardless, I can't see it as trying to get momentum if he didn't even add the finishing touch.

I swear my head is going to explode if jakesh is scum stalling for no lynch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UGH

UNVOTE

VOTE: Jakesh97

What's the point in this? He can't react if he's not here, which is what the reaction would be about, actually lynching him would FUBAR the execution of the plan that's the whole reason we need him, and if he replaces, you'll likely revote Oversoul. Seems overly frustrated.

Oh Glowball. You are so silly. However, I guess we can agree on something. Jakesh is annoying. Just don't beat yourself up too much when you are wrong.

Gah. It sounds like you're trying to make friends with her first of all, and second, "when you are wrong," implies that you're going to die and flip. One person has their vote on you, Neil is obviously apprehensive towards you because he disliked your wall on him, but everyone else seems rather neutral or on your side. It's overly defensive.

#173: DarkFlashlight beats the dead horse's zombie (scumtell)

People are still baw'ing about this? I know she said she would go through with the plan, but that seems irrelevant when she had earlier refused to read the plan, and didn't say she had caught up until the post directly AFTER the one you're referring to. I'd rather excessively repeat than have a wallflower sabotage a well set up plan. In fact, she had clearly said that she had no intent to go through with the plan after saying she would:

then go forward with the plan- and I want you [Hoopla] lynched today

Had she read it, she would've known that that's not necessarily possible. Hoopla would have to be in the little 1/4 of the game's players to be able to do that, yet said that she wanted it to happen regardless.

I realize Glowball did read the thread, eventually agreed to the plan (after saying she read, I'm not counting the first for the reason I just gave), and even ran through scenarios with it, but that all happened after that post.

[DarkFlashlight]

By this point Jake even catching up would take so much time it'd be a hassle. He just needs to replace. I think Pac's been keeping up with the game, since he was in queue to replace, not just random.

[DarkFlashlight]

Excuse me? It's called a catchup post, and I was expressing my opinion. What's with that reaction? <-- not a rhetorical question

Look at this:

#173: DarkFlashlight beats the dead horse's zombie (scumtell)

#192: DarkFlashlight makes the case that Glowball hasn't been reading the thread, but misses all the posts that indicate neil also hasn't being doing so... (scumtell)

Beating the dead horses's zombie was over trying to make Glowball read the plan. In order to show that it was in fact necessary, I had to point out that Glowball HADN'T read the thread, and thus hadn't read the plan. That nullifies the scumread on #173, since it was repetitive, but #174 was when she said she had read and

from then on

it would've been unnecessary. I pointed that out in #192, because for some reason Glowball thought I was scum for not being able to predict that she would have read the thread by her next post. Saying Glowball hadn't read the thread had nothing to do with that post (#192). It meant that she had no point with her post of:

Hey DarkScum... keep up and stop quoting things that are no longer relevant. Yes, I went through saying I wouldn't re read but I have conceded defeat if this is how you've all decided to go... and I've read what everyone has written since I came back from V/LA.
...As far as you painting me to be scummy...I'm apprehensive there is a difference, but wouldn't you love it if people thought I was scum.

I'm gonna rant for even longer, because I found something else.

#192 wasn't even saying that Glowball hadn't read the thread, that's a flatout lie. It was saying I had no way of knowing she had read it before post #174. You mention that I didn't say anything about Neil not reading the thread. First of all, why I would I have, Neil clearly understood the plan and read it, that was the whole reason I ever got into that scuffle with Glowball. Second, even if it would've been relevant to mention in that post, which it wasn't, Neil's only post concerning not reading the thread was #203. 203 comes after 192. How the hell would I have said that he hadn't read before he said he hadn't read? I don't even understand how you did that. Surely you didn't read the thread backwards, so you would've had to have intentionally done it. I want an explanation to that.

I'm concerned about the people on the LittleGrey wagon.

Goddammit, you were the last person on the LittleGrey wagon, and fully supported it.

VOTE: Quilford

Also, Marill, I haven't been in the last three votecounts.

[DarkFlashlight]

Claim: Not PR


Let's get rolling, I can't honestly see how order would matter at all. In the end, if there's a CC, there's a CC. Scum will have to deal with the circumstance either way.

Glowball, I know you said you wanted to claim last, and I won't argue with that, but try to check back frequently so we don't have to wait for you to claim last when you could've right now.

[DarkFlashlight]

That surprises me as well. I took "are you sure you have all of the PRs on board...." (#209) as the most obvious softclaim ever.


LittleGrey was only semi-existent the whole game, but Swank was usually at least lurking.

[DarkFlashlight]

Did we ever actually settle on what hider should do? We have nothing else to talk about.

[DarkFlashlight]

I was gonna be like "get Olinea to replace!" then I was like... wait never mind

D=

I'd rather wait for the replacements to check in. If they haven't even read the thread yet, then they most likely won't lie about their claim, since they won't know the specific risks they run. Let's just hope they check the last few pages before they dive into the whole thread.

[DarkFlashlight]

Can you change the deadline update to one week from when we actually have replacements? It seems kinda pointless to get extra days because we were waiting, but then spend the extra days also waiting.

[DarkFlashlight]

If Swank doesn't post soon, I'm lynching him IRL.

Also, I'll be gone from this evening till tomorrow afternoon. Not that it's a big deal, but there's no harm in sharing.


Hi, silver!

[DarkFlashlight]

I'm back btw.

And yeah, needz moar people.


The important thing to take out of what you need to do, Silver, is if you're vig, claim not PR. Otherwise just be honest.

[DarkFlashlight]

What the fuck?

[DarkFlashlight]

We can't go through PR claims, scum will intentionally CC the last claim so that all PR's get outted.


Quilford's theory was good, but it throws off the plan, assuming that Swank wasn't going to be in the lynch pool. We could technically compensate for that though, by forcing him into it, and having someone who was going to be in the lynch pool go in the vig pool. It'd be the same thing, but taking his choice away. It's not like he's gonna make one anyway.


My idea though, is go through the plan with 4 PR's, 2 lynch pool, and 6 vig pool. D1&D2 we lynch the two people in the lynch pool, vig shoots out of the vig pool like planned. On D3, two PR's will most likely be dead. Both PR's will claim the same thing, since one will be the actual last PR, and scum won't CC the confirmed dead, so on D3, we lynch one of those two, if we lynch wrong, vig can shoot the other, or not, it doesn't really matter*. If scum decide not to take out PR's in an attempt to throw off D3, then we can use the PR's findings eliminate the guesswork out of the D3 lynch.

*If vig decides to keep shooting out of the vig pool, then we have an obvious lynch the next day. If vig shoots scum, then we get to lynch out of the vig pool the next day. Same thing happens either way, just by different people at different times.

That's pretty much what Amrun just said, but I used more words.


My bets on fakeclaiming go: Muffin->Silver->Oversoul->Glowball. I really doubt Glowball would try something like that as scum, not to mention all the PR softclaims earlier. It also makes sense with wanting to claim last. Muffin flaunting his PR-invulnerability just seems like an easy way to go, "Why would I do that if I knew there was going to be a CC?"

Of course, the initial thought I had was that Glowball only CC'ed so that she could lynch Muffin, but I'm really hoping that's not true, since if she CC'ed just to do that, she's for-sure lynching town and throwing the game. I'm assuming nobody would actually do that.

[DarkFlashlight]

Your plan is too open-ended. We have to take a gambit on guessing who we think is fakeclaiming between four rather than two, and if we're wrong, we have to cycle through all of the PR's and everyone will be revealed. It's not a necessary risk D1. You act like the PR's won't die in your scenario just because you didn't go all the way to D4 in your example. The PR's die regardless of if the fakeclaimer is alive, there are two other scum.

It's unlikely that Oversoul or Glowball is scum, but not impossible. You're writing off that possibility completely, which I don't like.

[DarkFlashlight]

We put 6 in the vig pool at least partially to dilute it enough that scum trying to hit vig would be futile. Taking one away just makes it easier. What I suggested is the same thing as the 3/6 split except the 3rd person in the lynch pool isn't decided until D3.


We should see what Hoopla thinks. It was her plan anyway.

[DarkFlashlight]

This game has a wonderful asymptote of replacements.


I'm pretty sure Quilford just hasn't left yet.

....

OK,

DFL

Think this through very slowly.

Why was it 6 people in the vig pool? So that if there were 3 scum hiding there, they'd have to guess out of 3 townies who the vig is.

Now think very carefully about why a 3/5 split would still be doing the exact same thing right now.

Yeah, it's the same. 2/6 ends up with the same number of people in the lynch pool, and dilutes the vig pool even further, making it yet harder for scum. There's no point in putting an extra person in the lynch pool for the sake of doing it.


Chk still has to claim, since the Swankspot is the only one that never did.

Claiming in this scenario is:
"PR" for dect/pysch, hider, hider tracker.
"Not PR" for vig/tracker, townie.
"Scum" for scum.

And if you're vig/tracker, take vig. I'm pretty sure we all know fully well what you're going to claim, but there's no point in not doing it.

[DarkFlashlight]

Are we set to start the volunteerism in the lynch pool? Even if we decide to go with three later for some reason, someone can just switch pools. I don't see the damage that would do.

[DarkFlashlight]

So...

Lynch Pool:

Hoopla
Andrew

Vig Pool:

Chk (Swank)
Darkie
Neil
Amrun
Quilford
Coventry (Pac (Jake))

PR's:

Glowball
Muffin
Oversoul
Silver (LittleGrey)


The order we lynch the two in the lynch pool really doesn't matter, we're not gonna hit MYLO before both of them are gone; what we need to discuss is who the vig should kill, making sure that we throw out at least two main options every night, because if basically everyone is settled on one person, and that person isn't the vigkill, it makes who the vig is pretty obvious.

Also, what are we doing with Hider? We had a long talk about that, but I can't remember the outcome, I don't think there was one.

UNVOTE: Quilford
VOTE: Andrew

[DarkFlashlight]

First off, though, I want to hear whether people think this is two townies in the lynch pool.

Probably, not definitely.

One person from the vig-pool volunteers themselves, we lynch them today, no questions asked.

That way you can lynch three townies total!

Because it keeps two nigh conf-town alive while killing off someone who may be gambiting scum volunteering themselves because they think I'm not serious and it'll make them seem like town sacrificing themselves for the cause.

You know, that logic doesn't work if you explain it.

Pretty sure it's MuffDiverMan.

OR, you could

not

sabotage the whole goddamn thing, wait till D3, and be much more sure. Whether you wanted to or not, we already claimed, don't disregard that.

Hider hides behind one of the players in the lynch pool tonight. det-psych can do whatever they want, and HT can just sit there and be awesome like me. The vig pool is still diluted enough that scum don't have a great shot at hitting the vig tonight. Hider will likely confirm one of the lynch pool players as town. And if scum take a shot at the PRs, there's a chance they hit the hider (i.e. they don't hit anything at all). In the mean time, the vig has a better shot at hitting scum with one less person in the vig pool.

There are two people in the lynch pool. If hider did that, there's a 50% chance of two town dying, including a PR, and then having to rotate someone else into the lynch pool to fulfill enough lynches. If we do that along with swapping a vig pooler into the lynch pool to lynch today, we could have 4 in the lynch pool (counting dead), 4 in the vig pool by D2. Both scum are hypothetically in the vig pool, since the only reason you want to swap a person right now is because you don't think there are any in the lynch pool, so 2 scum, 1 vig, 1 townie in a single pool. Four in vig pool by N2 is the same as starting with 5, AKA the 4/5 split [later 3/5] that we decided against.


I don't know why you're semi-conftowning Hoopla and Andrew. Hoopla hasn't even posted all that much not related to technical blatherings.

[DarkFlashlight]

This [less than one day] catchup was rather odd.

2 of {neil, Amrun, Coventry} because the rest of the vig pool are town, as are hoopla, andrew and myself. I'm not even going to try to guess who's lying in the PR pool. It doesn't concern me. If I'm still alive when it matters, then I'll get to figuring it out.

It isn't me.

Why did you even throw this out? It seems off-topic and overly concerned.

VOTE: Muffinman

Do we not realize the deadline is in 4 days? Muffin is the only sure fire lynch I see here, because if anybody deserves to be lynched this game, it's this kid.
[...] Also, I'm pretty sure Hoopla (when Muffin flips scum) is his partner, it makes so much sense it hurts.

Lemme get this straight:
1. Muffin (claimed PR) and Hoopla (lynch pool) are your scumbets.
2. You want to lynch the PR over the person in the lynch pool?

Just no.

Not if Muffin keeps playing the way he's playing, he'll be doing the Mafia more of an advantage staying in then any of his other two teammates.

An attempted explanation. How is one person more of a benefit than another? If you've already coined him as scum, just don't follow his advice, and TADA, he's no longer a threat. You're fake-prioritizing and I don't really see why. He's agitating, yeah, but that doesn't give you the right to go preemptive-CC-lynching.

No, I couldn't have foreseen this happening. It couldn't have been planned.

You're overstressing this. You didn't have to think of it ahead of time, you're both very capable players, capable of adapting.

NO MORE VOLUNTEERS FOR THE LYNCH POOL, PLEASE. YOU'RE NARROWING DOWN THE VIG POOL FOR SCUM. IF WE'RE LYNCHING TODAY, WE'RE LYNCHING ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAS VOLUNTEERED. OTHERWISE, WE NO LYNCH.

This, minus the possibility of an NL.


What's annoying me is all these people calling out a Hoopla/Muffin scumteam, and seemingly forgetting there's a third member.

Are you serious Muffin? Glow? Quil? Is my mislynch really more important then the fact that I'm

NOT SCUM

?

Okay, we'll play by your game. Let's do this. I'm tired of this game anyways, and it'd probably help from me possibly having to be replaced from the missions trip I'm going on Sat. If this is what it'll take to show you all how wrong you are, so be it. I'm the vig.

UNVOTE: Muffin

VOTE: Neil_1113

Good game.

This is so beyond stupid that I'm assuming it's altruism.

Glowball, you somehow imply that zMuffin is responsible for neil outing himself.

I see how she would think that. Muffin was essentially telling Neil to switch to the lynch pool and get lynched today, which if he didn't do, would look scummy. Albeit, there were better ways to weasel out of it than murdering the whole game.

If there are counterclaims I want them.

I know

someone

else HAS to be reading Quilscum here. Check the ISO. This is getting ridiculous.

Better yet was how it was disregarded instantly. Quilford didn't fight for it for any reason, he just wanted it to happen before anyone caught it.

well at least it eliminates me from being lynch and gives us another confirmed townie

Oh you poor sap, you're not confirmed.

Muffinman is obviously town. I'm kind of surprised he is even being considered. He's claimed a PR, so at best, he has a 1/4 chance of being scum.

...all of the PR's have a 1/4 chance, but there's 1/1 chance of there being scum. I don't know why you're writing him off for being the same stakes as everyone else.

To be honest, my vig desires right now are Andrew, Amrun, and Darkflashlight (where has he been by the way??)... I don't like how Dark and Am have basically ridden the shadows...

I was gone for TWELVE HOURS and you're mad at me?


Maybe I'm far too optimistic, but I'm still clinging to the hope that Neil is a sacrificial townie. If that is true, then the plan is not fucked. I don't see why we're crinkling it up because one person does whatever you wanna call what Neil did. Imagine if Neil was scum. This would be the best move ever. You guarantee yourself not to be lynched unless real vig CC's, in which case there's an easy dead vig, and convince the town to throw away its own plan. I saw we wait to gauge what we're doing until Neil actually flips.

UNVOTE: Andrew
VOTE: Hoopla

We obtain nothing from an Andrew lynch, and if Andrew was scum, from what I can tell of his play, he'd likely not volunteer for a lynch. Earlier I just went with the wagon, since I figured we would get both lynches in, and those were the only two candidates, the order didn't matter. Now that we might only get one [or none] in, it actually matters which we go with.


If you must kill Coventry, vig her. I'm not lynching based on horrible process of elimination.

[DarkFlashlight]

Before I disagree with you:

DFL is probably town

After I disagree with you:

I don't care if DF is scum, he can be dealt with later.

No, DF. It's the dumbest move ever if neil is scum because he's just going to get vigged tonight. The vig doesn't need to CC...

Unless he's a townie trying to attract attention away from everyone else. It's unlikely given the scenario of his claim, but I still can't believe he would've actually pressurebuckled like that, D1 nonetheless. It would've been better to just completely ignore you and look like the scummiest scum who ever didn't ruin a game.

No. We lynch Coventry, we vig another likely scum. Stop trying to derail the Coventry lynch.

This is cute. I said he could vig Coventry if he really wants so whatever your last sentence was trying to imply is a lie. I don't see the point in killing her, the case was made up on the spot, but I don't have the final say, and regardless of vigging or lynching her, she's dead, and you win. So all you're actually doing by enforcing your way instead of what I said is protecting Hoopla. You two must be in love.

Don't feel coerced into reexplaining why you think Hoopla and Andrew are town. I assure you I understand.


Amrun needs to weigh in before a final decision also. I don't want her flying under this whole situation. Not that I think she' doing it on purpose, but it's still happening.

[DarkFlashlight]

@Marill,

Silver can't be voting Jake, Jake is Coventry.

btw, DF, who do you think is scum?

Are you voting Hoopla because you think she's scum or just because it 'gives more information' than an andrew lynch?

I'm voting Hoopla because it gives more information than an anyone-else lynch. Not to mention, she hasn't done anything townish other than make the plan, which was riddled with holes, and volunteer for the lynch pool, which there's a separate discussion on.

If Hoopla flips scum, then:
PR-You
Vig-chk

If Hoopla flips town, then:
PR-{Silver, Oversoul}
Vig (two of)-{Amrun, Quilford, Coventry}

What do you think of the reason I think Hoopla/andrew are town?

Everyone thought the lynch pool was just going to be two consecutive lynches, regardless of their alignment. Including Hoopla. It makes no sense for the scum team to gimp themselves like this, and you can cry WIFOM all you want, but with 1 scum in the PR pool already, I will bet anything the remaining two scum didn't have the balls to nominate themselves for the lynch pool.

That reason.

Although I still request that neil uses his shot on someone in the vig pool and also announces it before nightfall to help the other PRs.

Agreed with this.



I wanna know what the Andrew wagon thinks of the Hoopla wagon.

[DarkFlashlight]

If Hoopla flips scum it almost confirms Andrew as town. Scum might nominate themselves one in the lynch pool as a WIFOM situation, but unless they knew it would get canceled, they wouldn't politely offer to commit suicide by D2. Unless you think there's an Andrew/Hoopla/Muffin gambit here, which would be super amazing and in that case I say we just give you three the game now for effort, especially since Andrew was the one who would've had to recognize and close up the plan without discussing it with his teammates.

Why do you want to [possibly] vig me, Glow? Gut read or what?

it [lynching Hoopla] provides more information regardless of the flip

Explain.

Why would the hider hide behind THE CLAIMED VIG?

In her defense, she said NOT to do that.

I don't really get it. Are you agreeing that it's unlikely scum would gimp themselves by volunteering for the lynch pool? If so, why vote Hoopla just for "information"?

It is unlikely, but one of my biggest downfalls in this game is okay'ing people for weak reasons. I don't wanna jump on the Coventry wagon, which I don't support, just because it's unlikely that Hoopla would sacrifice.

Also, the hider could easily hide behind Hoopla or andrew and confirm their alignment.

This is a good idea, and gives me another idea. What if hider did this, but said who he was going to hide behind before night. That way scum can either take out vig and have a confirmed townie and PR the next day, or go for the hider, kill two townies, but vig lives past N1.

[DarkFlashlight]

@Muffin, I didn't wanna support a Coventry lynch because most of her responses were things I probably would've said had I been in the same situation. At least earlier, not so much now; her #1 point in 956 was just a lie.


I still don't fully support a Coventry lynch, despite recent posts losing her some cred, but I support it more than an NL.


PRE-EDIT:

If Andrew is scum I think the scumteam is Andrew-you-Hoopla.

Remember the first post on this page:

Unless you think there's an Andrew/Hoopla/Muffin gambit here, which would be super amazing and in that case I say we just give you three the game now for effort, especially since Andrew was the one who would've had to recognize and close up the plan without discussing it with his teammates.

That's definitely a conspiracy theory unless you think Andrew was capable of thinking of, "If myself and Hoopla are in the lynch pool, Muffin can then say, 'Scum wouldn't volunteer, those two are town,' and protect us for at least a couple of days since he logic makes sense, and we wouldn't have been able to plan this out, since having two in the lynch pool was someone else's idea." In addition, they both would've had to be online at the exact right times to volunteer before anyone else could take their spots.

Is that really likely?

[DarkFlashlight]

I come back expecting to be vigged because of my protecting of Coventry D1, and then turn out to be conftown, assuming no PR claim is just a saboteur townie. So that's fun. Neil COMPLETELY fucked Maf; I have no clue why he did that gambit, he wasn't even under pressure.

Let's get those other PR claims and easy win.


Stop speculating on who you think will be a CC. You're just giving the liar ideas. Not that it really matters overall, but it'd be cool to sweep in my first non-newbie game onsite.


Why would you investigate Oversoul? He's like, everyone's least concern. (DAMN YOU, AMRUN, STEALING MY THOUGHTS AND POSTING THEM BEFORE ME.)

Also, hi, YoYo, this place feels just like home.


Can we assume that scum ran out of time for their kill? Or the WIFOM version of the same idea?


YoYoGuy (silverbullet999) --> Detective
zMuffinMan --> ???
Oversoul --> ???
glowball --> Hider Tracker

[DarkFlashlight]

We need to see if we can get a couple of guys from the spv3 to join the same game here.

Ummm...this game is essentially over.


Did you investigate Oversoul totally randomly, or did you know he was a claimed PR?


PRE-EDIT: Found the CC.

YoYoGuy (silverbullet999) --> Detective
zMuffinMan --> Psych
Oversoul -->

[hider]

glowball --> Hider Tracker

Unless Oversoul has a really confusing argument to that, then we know where to fish from.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that Muffin pretty much killed both of this teammates D1. However, I find it crazy that he managed to kill 2/3 of the scumteam and no townies D1 also.

I'm counting him as killing Neil, since the fake vig claim was because he couldn't nominate himself to be lynched without hurting scumteam, which was Muffin's forceful idea. Unless Muffin pulled the most hardcore bussing ever for the sake of intentionally losing, albeit impressively, this is obvious. Also our last day since vig is still alive and will obviously shoot the CC if we get it wrong today. Good game.


VOTE: YoYo

For now. Hammer is 6 and assuming I counted right, that's vote #5, so

YoYo is at L-1

.


I think it's funny that Glowball who's now confirmed, and Muffin both said they had delays in their PM's, and YoYo just jumped right on his result, but apparently Glowball is the new Amrun and beat me to pointing it out.


Since vig gets their shot in regardless of if they die, and it doesn't even matter, I wanna guess Amrun for vig.

[DarkFlashlight]

Oh, derp, you're right, Quil was probably vig. That makes sense with his asking for CC's.


YoYo, why'd you NK?