NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[SpyreX]

/confirm

[SpyreX]

Sup game I hate not hitting the bookmark button.

Vote: Idher.

For your ^'erry.

[SpyreX]

Ythan is town.
Hiraki is probably town.

Looks like your nefarious ^ survives since we got us a live one.

Unvote, Vote: Para

lol, reactions sliding into excusing yourself from the vote as you make it? AWESOME

[SpyreX]

I know sometimes I can be obtuse by accident but I thought this one was pretty clear:

Well sure mate.

I don't know you, i really don't,

i was baiting for a reaction,

pretty nice and stuff, people said you're an accqiured flavor and i'm tasting it myself.

UNVOTE:

my real is most likely oversoul,

but he's noob so there's the hard line between noobscum and noobtown,

but it's a good vote nonetheless.

VOTE: Oversoul

Lol reactions into "ohh he's a noob" excuse for the mislynch (yea yea no wagon but you know the song and dance of the fresh young scumbucks)

----

I know you're gonna take this the wrong way but,

I had bookmarked this page on a post on the first page

, and never bothered to look and see that we were already a few pages in, so I didn't even know we started. That's why I've been lurking and F5ing hoping it would start and never even noticing. Sorry for being a newb.

....

Can you even do that?

[SpyreX]

OHHH I was thinking forum bookmark not browser bookmarks.

As an aside I'd recommend using the forums one and not the browsers one in general.

When I'm home I'll get into detail on Para but lets start with a few lowballs:

1.) When you voted lol, reactions why was that worth doing over this "real" vote OR the other pieces you made then.
2.) If this is your "real" vote why do you have to qualify it with noob

regardless of alignment

.

[SpyreX]

You wouldn't have to parrot yourself or just quote yourself if you answered the actual questions I asked and not make believe ones.

[SpyreX]

T-Bone is town *gasp*

GOD in heaven though:

Para, you've made a lot of unbiased posts, and not very smart moves. You're trying to cover yourself up too hard. Obvious scum is obvious. VOTE: Parabollocks

This I dont even

4. Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler and fluff posts look bad. His recent backpedalling to a degree reads as very off though the speed of the bandwagon and his reaction towards it reads as geninuely frustrated town.

This I double dont even

ythan is town. im getting frustrated town vibes from parabollocks despite his inconsistencies. hiraki is still scum, despite trying to laugh it off.

swag is possible scum, i believe the bookmarking bit, but refusing to give any explanation for scum sentiments followed by an L-1 vote with very fluff reasoning does not make town. claims that the L-1 vote can be written off as null for being a newb should also make the eagerness to start the game null as well.

Hiraki isn't scum yo. Ythan is town though so 1 for 2 aint bad.

Is this already at L-1?

[SpyreX]

4. Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler and fluff posts look bad. His recent backpedalling to a degree reads as very off though the speed of the bandwagon and his reaction towards it reads as geninuely frustrated town.

Continual filler = 5 posts?
Backpedaling = not backpedaling and being obstinate?
Reaction = I hate this site = town?

------

Hot damn did we catch some kinda doom PR in bollocks?

[SpyreX]

1. Yes. Five fluff posts none with any real scumhunting attempt or town thought processes show is filler.
2. He did backpedal, he went from "I was baiting a reaction" to "It was RVS".
3. Yes. Town being piled on early in the game often get frustrated and complain about the game whereas scum getting piled on panic, flail and generally claim.

1.) Versus T-Bone's 4 what makes KKB the SUPREME NEMISIS?
2.)

because RVS, i dunno, only excuse i can make,

besides the other reasons i have said

, and i wasn't trying to cover it up, i was giving explanation to my votes and my reasons.

He's holding to it and still didn't actually answer the questions presented.
3.) Ohh you mean like:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3130139
or:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3130093

[SpyreX]

Selective absolutes and I don't understand it.

I dont even know if a Bookie would be worth this defense. Definitely not the other scum roles.

[SpyreX]

Something about "what is the point of this" when not addressing my more words speaks volumes

[SpyreX]

1.) No. You can't go after the fact for before the fact. We're talking about WHEN he voted him. If the argument is who stepped it up since then yes the winner is T-Bone who's actually a pretty town read.
2.) No. It isn't backpedal its padding. Its never rescinded.
3.) OHH META ok then.

I'm not going to chill if you two can't play nice with your hydra aint my problem

[SpyreX]

1.) At that point KKB had 5 fluffy posts. T-Bone had 4 fluffy posts. Leaving the fact that fluffy posts there doesn't even bother ME the lord of hate I dont even know.
2.) A no B is a lot different than A AND B. Which is what he did. A is the obstinate bit I'm talking about.
3.) And again OHHH META snap. Meta is ffffffff

[SpyreX]

1.) No trying to justify this "Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler" as anything but a joke is a joke.

Lets compare and contrast T-Bone and KKB (the fluffiest posters at that point):

Spoiler: T-bone

I'm bringing sexy back.

Hey that's 14!

Vote: Chair

Only scum would allow themselves to be sat upon.

You just don't know what sexy is.

Spoiler: KKB

/confirm

vote:toad bone
i dont buy that claim for a second buddy.

ebwop re: of course to #5, not #28.

how dare you. i'll have you know i have a very discerning eye

He was pretty eager to get things rolling 12 minutes before Reck opened things up too...

Yes, it is hard to see how those could be compared. I mean T-Bone has his magnifying glass out and was posting thesi on finding scum and KKB was drooling in the sand trying to find his toes. Yes, it is true that T-Bone was less fluffy after that arbitrary point of Reck opening the thread in the three hours that we are talking about which alters it from fun fluffy time to SERIOUS BUSINESS but if you can straight face tell me this isn't application after the fact or some kinda moonbeam defense well I dont even know.

2.) Well yea I can choose to read the fact he used both as a "continued defense" since those are the words he used versus not and you can... do something else thats cool I guess.

3.) Go meta the meta and get back to me.

[SpyreX]

Sooo you would have made your vote for KKB in #36 based on:

#35 Kayne - Don't like

and that it.

That is the SCUM FOUND that makes para town town town?

[SpyreX]

THIS:

4. Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler and fluff posts look bad. His recent backpedalling to a degree reads as very off though the speed of the bandwagon and his reaction towards it reads as geninuely frustrated town.

Is what you say about a

weak

town read?

And the only thing(s) you've said about KKB are that you don't like two specific posts and that you would have voted at #36 because of "continual filler".

[SpyreX]

1.) Its the simple fact you've went ohhh 36 is a good solid town vote because of the streams of fluff and then showed your notes that are one post of don't like at that point.
2.) I'm not prescient and can't read your

scum

mason

hydra QT so what in the hell. You said these are the reads and their based on....rollerblades?

[SpyreX]

I know I'm being smarmy that whole "what a joke" comment got me in a tither a bit.

[SpyreX]

Just got worked in Altitude booo

It's probably easier to go through the system I'm attempting to use here, it's as follows:
a) Make notes on a sticky notepad while reading through the thread. b) Bring up these notes when having a discussion with Slaxx, find out what reads we share and where we have disagreements. c) Once the exact post has been discussed I attempted to delete it from the notepad with the exclusion of impossible scum-teams which I move to our Hydra QT for later usage. d) Proceed to posting the reads we both share agreement on in-thread.

This amounts to post # do not like.

no.

Oh I see.

You can't read.

I apologize for my tone then.

Please no learn to reads it makes me sad

SpyreX: what's your read on Ythan?

I'm pretty confident that regardless of whats going on here in the grandiose scope ythan is town as town can be.

AN INTERESTING TIDBIT OOOU:

Our reads are not rock solid, if they were we would be yelling for everyone to unvote Para however I believe it's needed to mention them as we attain them.

Ythan, I speak in absolutes a lot man, you know this.

How quickly the tides turn

[SpyreX]

After showing me the five step plan to posting I literally get arguing out of both sides of the mouth is a-ok cause hydra maaan

If not for cart-before-horse paranoia I'd leap from the rafters buttt Ythan what do you think of para-ethos?

They're doing an excellent job at eliciting emotional responses from each other and I see no reason for town players to do that

I want Parabollocks and Hiraki to answer their questions before I go any further in this vein though.

...

If they are both town they wouldn't know the other is so this logic doesn't really make sense?

Preview Edit OHH MAN

Kunk of 2 posts is null and Mask of three is scum are you SERIOUS

WELP

Unvote, Vote: Ethos

[SpyreX]

For me its 100% that bizarro world Para town because I would have made that vote on #36 from KKB business.

I freely admit its not deeper than that

[SpyreX]

Sure:

4. Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler and fluff posts look bad. His recent backpedalling to a degree reads as very off though the speed of the bandwagon and his reaction towards it reads as geninuely frustrated town.

This quote makes SO little sense to me my brain goes "Welp, Para and Ethos are scum together and Para is some kind of super juiced PR that they've got to save because otherwise why in the hell would you do this?"

I think you may have gotten some players' names mixed up here. Correct please?

Reading the rest of your post now.

No I see what he's saying (and in the grandiose scheme of things it makes me laaaaugh):

Its the fact I'm fairly confident in the gutmeat about Hiraki being town.

You know like certain players leaping from the trees to call him town (who are then town as far as he's concerned)

[SpyreX]

Sheesh I already did KEEP UP.

Don't think I've forgiven your ^'s continued existence.

To be perfectly honest, it's mostly meta-related. The last game I played with TheMask was Spare Me Mafia, he was scum and active lurked and V/LA'ed through the game until he ended up replacing out. The complete lack of attempt by him to to assist progressing the game in any way before leaving reads as highly similar to that.

I dont even.

Leaving aside the fact you just accused them of faking a V/LA to dodge the nothing right now wellll

Its not my place since I long ago deduced the altitude of TheMask but it isn't like there is any kind of large gathering known of on this forum that would correspond to someone being gone during that time frame.

[SpyreX]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3131513

Buttt I actually TRIED to make that one clear.

That statement makes so little sense the first thing that lept to my mind was scum on scum defense which, really, only makes a lot of sense if the defended is not just scum but a PR they want around.

[SpyreX]

The game has not even been open for two days AND the Mask has one entire whole post thats not in this game in this timeframe.

Alt or not and its not confirmed and I could be wrong about the rationale but even WITH THAT seriously I can't even

[SpyreX]

Yes. I am really unable to fathom going "2 posts? V/LA?? SCUM."

Considering if that WERE the case the mod would deal with that faster than death itself it doesn't even begin to make sense.

Quilford is throwing out some easy pitches that make me a little itches but townish for the minute. Need more.

[SpyreX]

I thought the Mask being scum because meta-v/la chicanery was pretty hardcore at least.

[SpyreX]

V/LA is a switch. Its not "hey I'm kinda V/LA which means I'm going to do stuff in some games and lurk out this one."

Either they ARE or they ARENT and its pretty clear.

And calling him out for skeeting versus some of the other high quality performers we have thus far is more of that selective absolutism.

And suuure you could call 288 unneeded (as in unnecessary) but 287? That's clearly saying something that isn't an insult to YOU but directly related to your play. Much like my statement.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, you continue to miss the point. I can't make myself any clearer than this, I don't believe he's "Kinda V/LA" but I believe he had an opportunity to actually make a dent on this game and avoided doing so thus 'skeeting by'.

Awwww SKEET SKEET SKEET

What. Seriously. WHAT makes you leap to that conclusion?

That's what I'm getting at.

[SpyreX]

P-edit: OMG WHAT DOES SKEET MEAN HERE I AM FUCKING DYING

And, with laughing out loud hard enough my eyes watered, I think that means I should go to bed.

Well played. Maybe I was wrong about your ^

[SpyreX]

Seriously I saw the bold but the idea of yelling at the computer WHAT DOES SKEET MEAN took a minute to sink in and now I'm dying.

On a far more serious note this game illustrates so well my ever-growing dislike of hydras. I hate the shrodinger reads so much. Ythan is the townscum scumtown.

P-Edit:

This is true but the leap to that train of logic? No way.

[SpyreX]

So after sleeping I'm still firmly convinced Skeet is hilarious and Amrun's title should be Mafia Skeet.

With the important stuff out of the way:

what does this mean

Some of the questions you're asking are meh.
Some make a lot of sense (especially asking me about Ythan at that juncture).

Mostly its you're still shuckin and weavin but not moving in with the right cross. I need some fire before I can come to a conclusion for sure.

----

Ohh SNAP as icing on the cake looks like KKB is slidin up that good people scale.

A few observations.

-Arguing in circles for 7 fucking pages over a span of just 3 hours only helps scum. There are 17 of us, and the three or four of you who contributed to that effectively alienate the rest of the player list, and assuming that there is no way all of you are scum, thus you alienate scum from the discussion.
- As I've just shown it's easy to go "I don't know what is going on" and not provide content. I'm struggling because honestly? About page 2 into the argument it looks like you guys totally forgot about what you were arguing about in the first place, but continued to post for the sake of argument. What does winning said argument accomplish exactly? Sure as hell doesn't help the rest of us.
- How the hell did I get dragged into the argument?
- Why 10 minutes after I go to bed do people start posting again? I was waiting all evening!

Okay, I'm left with just one single question I'd like answered. What the heck did all that accomplish? Because I don't think it accomplished anything but the negatives I noted above.

What did it accomplish?

I think you need to try again because while there was a lot of posts there ACTUALLY wasn't a lot of noise. Those were good pages.

-----

You've just seen the word hydra disagreements and attempted to jump to misrepresent again; The 'contradiction' has nothing to with our reads, moreso Slaxx saying he's more confident in our reads than I am.

SpyreX, you've just quoted two differents heads posts and attempted to call that a contradiction.

You've called Ythan town and Ythan scum. You've said your reads aren't rock solid yet you speak in absolutes. You've called para a weak town read and then said your town reads are stronger than your scum reads.

Then you call out KKB for misrepping the schizophrenia your slot has.

Deeeath and bloooddd

[SpyreX]

No. I'm done playing hydra semantics. You can't toss out the royal we and then go back to I like that aint no big thing.

Your slot has went ping-pong on that. The only things that have been CONSTANTS make even less sense then the ping ponging.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, alright, I'm just going to request this once and once only. Take your fucking head out of your ass and attempt to play this with an open mind. Surely PYP would have showed you that instantly shooting down my thoughts isn't smart at all. With the exception of Ythan we haven't 'ping-ponged' on any of our reads whatsoever and now Slaxx is in agreement with me over Ythantown.

But its so warm and comfortable and dark in there and I'm tirrreeed.

Or, if you will: choke on it.

It takes a lot of stones to MORE THAN ONCE complain about people being mean (and I've been pretty clear about Ythan pushing that edge with things like learn to read) and then flip that junk out like it aint no thing.

It also takes a lot of stones and a very interesting mischaracterization of events to try and CALL ME OUT about about PYP. Meta hurf hurf aside the game where a.) I called you town because you were b.) I had to call out your abysmal read on LLD (which is double awesome considering INSTANTLY SHOOTING DOWN MY READS) and c.) you were 1 for 3 in your callout I dont even know.

[SpyreX]

I'm not getting into a huge discussion about PYP.

Onto something actually productive for this game, what's your thoughts on Para's update post?

Not impressed. The unvote in the next post is more something but that's not even anything yet. We'll see wHere the vote lands.

[SpyreX]

KoC I have a request for you.
Its gonna be a hard one and I KNOW you're going to want to rebel but its for the good of the land:

Be active like this all game TIA because <3.

There's a few things I disagree with but I'll get to them in a min.

-----

Spoiler: paraquotes

It's not going anywhere until i find something worth voting, so far, not really, i can provide some reads however, have at it.

Town
Ythan
Oversoul
Hiraki
Ethos
Idher

Null
T-Bone (lean town)
Chair
kunkstar7
quilford
Knight of Cydonia
dramonic
Swag
The Mask
Untripod

Scum
Kanye (will get to this.)

No posts between and you call out a scum read AND THEN not vote for them I swear. At least I transcend these "lists" and obviously live in the heavens above.

Hiraki - how long did it take you to write 345?
KKB++

This whole Ethos vs. Ythan/SpyreX... thing reads like three townies beating the shit out of each other. Guys, there are far squishier, scummier targets. LAY YOUR PIPES UPON THEM. Do agree with Ythan that the whole "look at my games as scum, I do this, I'm not doing that now" thing is the worst kind of meta bullshit defence though.
(For those who need this explaining: statement "look at my games as scum, I do X, therefore since I'm not doing X here, I'm not scum" is logically flawed as it fails to account for the fact that the person making the statement has noted their action X as scum, and could therefore be making a concerted effort to avoid action X - actively playing on their meta)

I can't buy Ethos town. I think that hydra cracked under quickfire hour somethin fierce.

That said its time for TEAM MURDER DEATH SQUAD:
Hiraki
KKB
KoC
T-Bone
SpyreX
Ythan

Lets do this and make the blood flow. Its been a good long time since I've felt this strong about town town up ins. I'd be shocked and awed if this list was all that was left and there was a game still goin on.

[SpyreX]

...

Even being generous with the initial KKB vote (you know the 'good' one) I cant even fathom the words you just said with your iso and the series of events that led us here today.

Would I be hammering RIGHT NOW?

[SpyreX]

I'm not sure what you're reachin there for maaan.

What would I know though apparently I'm gay AND thats bad?

I mean its not like asking for the VC so in case I was wrong chucklehead there had a moment to compose some last thoughts but, afterall, I DO have my head firmly in a dark place so only one thing can be done:

Unvote, Vote: Para

Seriously dont know or care if thats a hammer peace

[SpyreX]

Call me a faggot, self-vote, then take ball and go home.

Awesome.

and this:

Hey bud, Unvote first. Also don't leave the site you're a good player, probably right and town, which is why the bandwagon is on you.

Also awesome.

I'm take a breath from this game but you can bet your ass when I come back to deal with this mess when we play mix and match against who's on this wagon versus who is Ethos has said is town its going to be hilarious.

[SpyreX]

Back to this slagheap.

Also- implosion wants me to ask you Spyrex- why did you add "Is this already at L-1?" to the end of your 162? That line bothers him.

Because I wasn't keeping track of the size of the wagon and someone? said something about it being L-1?

Anywho, to real business:

Hey bud, Unvote first. Also don't leave the site you're a good player, probably right and town, which is why the bandwagon is on you.

The only way this makes any sense is if he's saying this is a scum driven wagon. So lets look at this wagon versus the reads:

Town: Swag, Idher, SpyreX, T-Bone, Oversoul, Parabollocks.
Null: Dramonic, Knight, Hiraki, Quilford, Tripod, Chair, Kunkstar
Mafia: Kayne, TheMask
Uncertain: Ythan (I say badtown, Slaxx is yelling scum.)

Parabollocks (7): Ythan, Chair, Quilford, Swag136, KoC, SpyreX, Parabollocks

So, people on that wagon in his town category: Swag, SpyreX, Para
People on that wagon in his null category: KoC, Chair, Quilford
People on that wagon in his "teehee" category: Ythan
People on that wagon in his scum category:

NONE

Yep.

This is awesome and if its really going to be no see he wont play the game lets lynch someone else you know damn right. And when this is right we can go ahead and do what we should be doing now tomorrow and then everyone can GASP when he was scum and this was all junk.

[SpyreX]

Ohhh thats much better the five person wagon DRIVEN by your town category. My bad.

And Quilford's scum now? The last time you mentioned him was "I'm shifting back and forwards on".

At least TheMask is still scum.

[SpyreX]

Uhhhh those first two quotes pretty obviously don't have anything to do with each other in any fashion you're trying to connect them?

The second is fah but this is not TvT I could see (probably because he's right but I digress).

Of course this is all tech since "Ohh, tsk tsk SpyreX how could you not be prescient and SEE our reads have changed!" is awesome.

[SpyreX]

Good LORD I'm not going to play "read quilfords mind" but:

1.) "I think he is town" and "I don't think he 'claimed' anything" have nothing to do with each other in any useful fashion because the former is not affected by the latter in any thought process aside from yours that I know of in this thread.

2.) OHhhhhh you're town well then case solved.

3.) No. This thread is the game. Not interactive notepad or whatever the hell you two are up to. If a normal player were to have this exact scenario play out and THEN go "Ohh see I USED THE POWER OF MY MIND TO CHANGE MY READS" you know damn well they'd get roped.

[SpyreX]

You should probably check yoself skeet before you wreck yoself cause KoC is town.

AND GOD IN HEAVEN I AM NOT ANSWERING THINGS DIRECTED AT YOU I'M CALLING TEAPARTY ONCE AGAIN ON ETHOS.

But, lo and behold, there you go. SNAP A and B have nothing to do with each other. Words have meaning, sky is blue, water is wet.

1. He stated that he believes he's town and then states he doesn't believe he claimed anything meaning he disagrees with the town-tell we had on Over. So what was his town-tell on Over? Oh, he never mentions it while the whole dispute occurs.

2. Our reads are based from our fucking point of view, how fucking hard is that to understand, jesus christ are you attempting to act dense on purpose just to frustrate us here?

3. Lets see what reads of ours 'changed' that weren't mentioned in thread, a KoC town-read oh wait that's mentioned in-thread as well, a Ythan town-read, oh wait that's mentioned in thread. The only read that changed was a Quilford scum-read which I explained in the next fucking post.

1.) The shinest pot and the darkest kettle shall meet apparently thats cool

2.) Yes and I'm making fun of "Ohh well I'm town thus butterflies" because good lord.

3.) YESSIR THAT ONE LINE when you said "Ohh SpyreX better check your reads (and by reads I mean, and only mean, KKB) because KoC is town now" is really a concrete change of the universe - and lets disregard the amazing connection of "Ohh look HE didn't explain his town reads" and dropping that bomb:

Lets let all that slide and use your new updated list of 'reads' regardless of where they come from.

That makes your statement about "Ohh para look the scums are trying to kill you because of how right you are in your reads (KKB)" make even less sense because that wagon is made by and pushed HARD UN FAST by your now town reads.

So, which is it? Are your town reads scum or is that moonbeams?

[SpyreX]

God this game makes me angry I'm out for the night.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, it's not a change of universe at all. Prior to that post all of those reads had been mentioned apart from KoC who hadn't posted until then. If you want a particular town-read explained ask otherwise I'm not in the particular mood to go around explaining them all. The statement in regards to the wagon formation was made by Slaxx with the intention of attempting to state that Para shouldn't let it all get to him too much. Essentially it was a plea to not quit playing mafia completly because Para is infact a good player. The intention behind it wasn't saying that the people strongly pushing para are scum as we only had two scum read on the wagon both relatively early on it however I can understand how you may read it as that initally. Honestly, I think what's making this game incredibly aggravating is that you've locked yourself into a mind-set that we're scum without actually taking a step back and reassesing which I urge you to do at some point in the next day or so.

Contrary to popular belief I do reassess all the time.

However when the lines I'm being thrown don't give me any reason to reassess no matter how many times I shake my 8 ball its going to give the same result.

If you wanted Para to not quit because he is a good player then "Para, you're a good player, take a break and dont quit" makes sense.
What DOESNT make sense is "Para, you are right this game and this is why this is happening."

One of those is out of the constraints of the game. One of those is a backhanded "SCUM ARE DOING THIS TO YOU" which makes absolutely no sense because the "doing" would be from your town reads. Further, when this is brought up instead of "Well maybe I'm wrong" its this same old song and dance.

And that doesn't even begin to get into the dichotomy of your reactions to Ythan's hyper aggression and my pushes. You call him out for flaking you and posts being unnecessary and then have the nerve to tell ME to pull my head out of my ass? Ridiculous, but whatever.

BUT, him calling me a faggot? Ohh yea look that's a town action better get off. Besides, we better not end the day in 3 days (which TheMask scum extraordinaire has been lurking through)

[SpyreX]

KoC: Thank you, I suppose. I'm actually unable to sit down for a good hour or so to read all these pages. I will torture myself in a few more days by reading what I've missed but right now I NEED to play from page 15 onwards. Nice to know my swag vote is shitposting... oh but it's SpyreX saying that so yeah, of course he's chainsawwing.

Who in the what now?

SpyreX, just because parabollocks called you a faggot doesn't make him scum.

-Amrun

No, no it doesn't.

However taking your ball and going home sure as hell doesn't make you town.

And I am talking about Ethos'es responses to the business.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, the 'you're right' bit revolved around his shared suspicion of Kayne with the 'this is why it's happening' involving two of our scum-read being on the wagon though in hindsight sure it's not the reason his wagon is being pushed but that's semantics. I told you to pull your head out of your ass because you're not reconsidering other suspects just tunnelling towards Para and us. You telling us that our thoughts are only from our point of view thus meaningless is proof of this. Do me a favour, read the thread, heck skim it from all I care with the mindset that Para and ourselves are town, then tell me who your leading suspects are.

Idher, can you explain the KoC suspicion as well as stating your read on Kayne.

That is not a semantic debate. Again:

Also don't leave the site you're a good player, probably right and town,

which is why the bandwagon is on you.

Your scum reads evan after the fact: TheMask and Quilford. They couldn't get a bandwagon on someone this game thus far if the person they were on said they were scum in thread in bold letters. So either you're saying they're somehow doing it or your town reads are scum because para is a paragon of town and a good player.

But, I'll play the game. More because of the replacement which I'll get to in a minute.

If both of you are town I'd be looking real hard at:

kunkstar the magnificent of the lurkers - yea yea he's been on null lists but my first response when I saw him post was "That was a quick replacement for para....wait a second"

Chair. A hydra who's paying attention with 8 posts at this stage of the game is ridiculous. Further, he's the one who's got them itchy feet about my MURDER DEATH SQUAD and a scum flip there would be awesome because that would be even more evidence (not that I need it) of me being right about my peeps.

UT. If both of you are town then one of the more vicious connectors has a pretty damn high chance of being scum. It sure as hell isn't Ythan and UT has a lot of bite in his posts but no bark. This one, of all of them, has everything to do you with your alignments - if you're scum, no way in hell he is.

So, yea, I'm paying attention to this game.

THAT doesn't change a peep about anything.

Yos though. That gives me a little pause. It takes gigantic stones to replace into a scum slot and call out

your own slot

for being a jackass first class. So, I definitely want some more Yos. A lot more actually. Especailly in regards to Ethos (note: not Ethos/Ythan parade).

A chunk of my extreme dislike of Ethos was the sweet two for one with Para and WHILE I probably am going to wagon that way on the merits of Ethos scum alone I'm going to take a bit and reconcile this game some in my head.

Unvote

[SpyreX]

First of all: 8 posts isn't ridiculous when, first of all, I'd been largely withholding posting early on until I could talk with Misder, which didn't happen until last night, and second of all, you seem to be implicitly comparing this hydra to the other hydras and Îdher's 30 posts generally consist of 1-3 lines. Second, you say that this slot flipping scum would have an effect on your town reads - does this mean that you have a scumread on us? If so, why not just outright say that you think we're scum? if not, why speculate about us flipping scum? Third of all, "itchy feet" is a strange way to describe my feelings about the voting block proposition - why don't you respond to the criticisms that I've made of it (namely, insufficiently justified town reads along with it being very early to create a very large voting block when many people haven't contributed) instead of essentially implicitly attacking me for attacking the voting block?

-implosion

1.) One person, two people, 10 people. 8 posts is ridiculous. Yes, there are a myriad of other rediculousnessers but you, and you've said it yourself, are paying attention to this game and not posting. I don't care WHY and this game has firmly cemented my hatred of hydras (which has been brewing for a long, long time but I digress).

2.) Read context, TIA. That was part of his huge game. I wouldn't lynch you at the moment, BUT assuming the mod came in and said Yos AND Ethos were both town yes you'd move waay up that list. And yes there are more than two scum but crawl before we walk. And, yes, like I said you flipping scum would cement said DEATH SQUAD because this is the tenative prodding I come to expect.

3.) Its itchy feet. I haven't "justified" any of my town reads but the only ones you're worried about are the ones you dont agree with. Very early is a cop out and sometimes it takes a post and sometimes it takes 4 flips but when I find town I find them. And, further, their contributions are not a factor of the "others" not playing the game. Those aren't flip-based reads. Those are town reads. Take it to the bank.

And if I'm going to attack you you'll know it. I dont pussyfoot around.

[SpyreX]

What other intention COULD there be? Was that just absolutely an unnecessary mispeak?

Since I'm mellow some at the moment sure I'll give you some bits on KKB:

KKB didn't jump on para. In fact, if the idea is being opportunistic scum AND you're both town he'd have every reason to firmly, firmly hitch his wagon to the more vocal group. He didn't. In fact, he's arguing about hiraki WHILE firmly laying down his opinion on me. Further, while he steps back some on para it is directly in relation to para's vanishing act during the turbulent times. Additionally, and this is key, he's firmly calling you out on the hydra business AND TheMask v/la business. Both of which deserve a call out - but, not from a scum trying to blend. And, and when everyone went "Ohh no these pages are just Ethos and Ythan duking it out" he went "no, no its not." because it isn't. This is paying attention and pretty solid town.

I thought I commented on the meta business before? That logic makes perfect sense to me(this is KKB speak): Stop using meta, because meta is bad (regardless of alignment). However, since you are scum and are going to keep doing it I'm going to keep calling you out on it. I dont have a problem calling you out on it, of course.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX-some of his play makes sense, but there’s some weirdness. Spyrex, can you explain why you voted for Ethos?

I dont even know where to begin.

TheMask vote V/la nonsense is terrible.
The pat on the back to para quote when put up against the light of his reads is nonsense.
The offended card when flipping it right back out is the kind of defense-offense dissonance that is scum as all getout.
The "para is town because of his KKB post because KKB is such scum" business when, of that post, there was a fat stack of nothing going on is decision after the fact at BEST and far, far more likely to be scum.
The para defense hooo business built on a house of ohh so flammable wood I just dont get AT ALL.
The hydra shield as an excuse for so much of the above is also maaah.

If I had a bullet.

Hell, of everything he did the ONE thing that doesn't scream murder death is the original oversoul business. That's just raw madness.

Although making me lay it back out like this makes me remember the seething rage

Unvote, Vote: Ethos

[SpyreX]

In response to Spyrex 420:

You talking about generic hatred towards hydras (which is apparently being instigated by this account's lack of posting) seems odd when Ethos has been one of the biggest posters and Îdher had 30 or so shorter posts.

Also, a clarification: would us moving up your scumlist if Yos/Ethos were both to be declared town be due to them being town, or just because we're your next biggest scumread?

As for the voting block, me only being averse to the town reads that I disagree with is to an extent a fair point. I dislike your calling my reaction to the voting block "itchy feet," and even more than that "tentative prodding." I'm not being tentative at all; I explained in detail what's wrong with the block.

I'll look at other stuff tomorrow.

-implosion

If you think that my dislike of hydras is "instigated" by your account from THIS game barring nothing else welllll.

If they are both town (they're not) then, especially with my town reads, then yes you're the "next biggest scumread" although that means a fat stack of nothing at the moment.

You aren't voting for anyone. If it was more than itchy feet you could have easily thrown a vote out.

Looking at Para's play, he made a vote on Overlord for reasons that don't make a lot of sense, he self voted, he made bad posts, he acted like an asshole. All of those things are explained by the fact he's a total VI, none of it has any obvious scum motivation.

IF that is the case, then what do you make of Ethos very clearly giving a pat on the back in a "you're not a VI" way?

[SpyreX]

Yos:

IF that is the case, then what do you make of Ethos very clearly giving a pat on the back in a "you're not a VI" way?

[SpyreX]

Sheeping is following someone who is considered strong town.

To ISO at the bottom of the page there is a 'Display posts by" with a DDL.

And yes, Yos, that is the exact post I'm talking about.

[SpyreX]

Don't forget - it also had that morsel of "this is happening because you're right this game".

If you're looking at your slot as a VI (and like I said it would take stones to call yourself out as scum) and Ethos is treating it as anything but can't you see the disconnect.

[SpyreX]

I thought it was bi-directional.

You've given some serious pause to that.

So, scum-Ethos defending an obvious mislynch and prepping up for KKB tomorrow is a pretty good avenue.

[SpyreX]

I'm scum.

Is Ethos's defense of Yos/Para the only reason you think he is scum, Emp?

WhaaaA?

[SpyreX]

Oversoul is newbie town sooo through and through now my goodness.

[SpyreX]

As sapor stated though, Empkings replace in post where he attempts to buddy up to Ythan and SpyreX while joining their push towards me reads as incredibly opportunistic and furthers the scum-read I had on Quilford before he replaced out. I'm unsure how the replace out was read as a null-tell at all, it wasn't due to a lack of time

as he's joined alternate games

but rather excessive pressure starting to be placed on him. For now I'm relatively comfortable with this: Vote: Empking

Ok I want everyone to pay attention.

Remember all the talk about selective absolutes AND TheMask V/LA gate? Wellll lookee here:

Mod: please replace me.

Large games are too much for me to handle.

Mod: please replace me.

Large games are too much for me to handle.

Number of large games quilford is currently playing in (as far as I can tell): 0

And its not like Ethos didn't look around to see if quil was in other games.

Summon los ropos.

[SpyreX]

...

Good lord gone for an afternoon and back to this.

UT has the right of it for more than a few reasons - if this is true then there is FAR more to gain then to lose by coming clear.

And I'm going to flat out ask if Para is a mason because that answer better be yes.

Unvote

[SpyreX]

I'll be a little slower to respond the next few days are crazy but here's my stance on why the masons should claim all nice and clear like:

1.) With Yos NOT being a mason, I'm not sold on this to begin with. Mason, unsupported is a beautiful last ditch claim. So, forcing the hand in the event of a lie is either the scum sacrificing Ethos (highly likely) or trying to keep the facade up all game (haha).

2.) Masons declared reduces the lynch pool by a good margin. This is always a good thing.

3.) Masons claimed forces scum to neutralize masons instead of PR hunting or choose to gamble and failure being double-damaging. This is also a good thing.

4.) Masons claiming + my reads depending on the mason claims could be well on the way to a slaughter of epic proportions.

5.) Its already half way there. If I sat down and parsed the last few pages I could probably deduce it without too much issue. You can be guaranteed if it goes into night unknown scum WILL do that. Which lets them do 3 without the issues.

6.) A solitary mason claim dies tonight probably and wooo.

[SpyreX]

Also Mod: Prods?

[SpyreX]

Ythan's still town, tia.

T-Bone being a mason makes me believe the group.

I will never ever in a million billion years understand the adamant defense of Para especially as a mason my god.

Serious business reads still stand.

Unvote, Vote: Chair

[SpyreX]

Focus on noticing?

Wooooo

[SpyreX]

Hold up.

I'm not a town read in your... 8? town reads (and kudos on two masons being 1/2 with DRAM being #1 but T-Bone the towniest out of them stuffed in the middle) but.... I'm not a "necessary" lynch today?

[SpyreX]

I don't know if that list is in order at all actually cause implosion has a huge town read on ythan. It's more of a, everyone on that list is town I'm pretty sure, but I'll get back to you on that.

Spyrex, let's just say that the possibility of one specific future mistep makes you null.

-Misder

What in the hell does that mean?

[SpyreX]

I've lost some serious love for you Hiraki please get back to be town kthx.

[SpyreX]

One last push before I give up and have to swing for a deadline:

I think I forgot that he was one of the masons at first when I was listing my town reads to misder.

-implosion

This needs to be explained asap because it suuure looks like you went "Dramonic is town" but forgot T-Bone without their mason claims being a factor.

Which is absolute teaparty.

[SpyreX]

Sort of. I don't really remember this well, but i think I had t-bone as kind of scummy, so when i was listing my town reads to misder i forgot to list him as one of the masons. Spyrex, what are you implying with "absolute teaparty?" If you're implying that it's scummy, then how is me not putting the masons together on a list more likely to come from scum than it is to come from town? If not, then what the fuck does "absolute teaparty" mean? Why would it be strange or scummy to, as you said, forget to list t-bone as town without remembering him being a mason?

-implosion

T-bone kind of scummy being haha aside, this means that you didn't think dram (who's up to as many words as in this post I just quoted) wasn't scummy?

Before I go to sleep tonight if I can't get any bites here I'll move but come on people help me here.

[SpyreX]

lol lols

Actually KKB I'd like a bit more depth on a couple of those posts from Chair.

Chances are REAL HIGH swapping this isn't going to happen and, realistically, if its not happening tonight its not happening at all.

[SpyreX]

Yea me too considering there's no way for Empkings "shot" to have not gone through.

Unvote, Vote: Empking

[SpyreX]

Ohh my bad then.

[SpyreX]

Sorry I forgot to unvote.

My bad again.

[SpyreX]

Did T-Bone just vote KKB for the same sentiment Idher expressed before? Bad T-Bone.

Empking is scum.

If he was town scum couldn't have risked the shot confirming him. Period.

IF there is a bookie, yea you damn well bet its on emp. That doesn't change anything. You don't leave scum alive to look for other scum.

[SpyreX]

Funny. We have 10 days till deadline, and you want to quick lynch without scumhunting? Do you have a back-up plan if Empking flips town? No? Funny. I do.

I do not need a backup plan for Empking flipping town.

That is not happening.

Again, unless you think the scumteam is multiple bookies or like 6 people deep no way in hell would they risk killing mason confirming the other two AND having a vig shot confirm the vig.

[SpyreX]

FFFFFfff.

Tell me what I'm missing here.

[SpyreX]

THANK YOU.

As long as the discussion ISNT about not lynching Empking we can take some time but I want this damn wagon firm and strong so there's no shenanigans.

[SpyreX]

Its not a function of Empking or any gambit.

Its risk-reward on the scum side.

I fully, FULLY, expect that if there is a Bookie he's Bookied. Regardless, he's scum.

[SpyreX]

spyrex if you really want this lynch to go through today i will go along with it but im just a little hesitant considering the likelihood of his being bookied.

also re talk of him pulling a gambit or forgeting: theres no way this is a gambit he is 100% confirmed scum.

p-edit: oversoul................

ugh im starting to think hiraki might not be scum

I absolutely want this lynch to go through.

Even if the mod for sure said there was a bookie I'd want this to go through.

We're not playing teaparty with scum. Scum found, scum dies. End of story.

[SpyreX]

Yes no oopises and no L-1 vote. I just got done with power hammer shenanigans so.

On that note, if Empking IS scum AND is NOT bookied:

Empking is pulling a really hard gambit here.

Not to mention, losing a plausible town PR isn't something I could decide for or against in two minutes.

Also, I don't believe that I found much of anything else wrong with Empking, while others did.

Ima keep my rebel(but correct) attitude.

I did get that impression.

Not sure how you could get your state of mind but w/e.

Just to clarify, since this just popped up, your other mason buddies are confirmed town, correct?

Caveat is I don't see that making sense if Emp is bookied.

On the flipside Oversoul's posts read, madness aside, pretty town.

[SpyreX]

I know what you were getting at its just the method you used to get there is somethin else.

[SpyreX]

...

Why do you believe there is a mafia traitor with a bookie in play?

More importantly:

It is now Day 3. With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

With 1 dead scum, even with a bookie, already how is this lylo under any normal mechanics?

[SpyreX]

Yea and 3 left would only be lylo if the bookie a.) has more shots and b.) picks right and c.) its not scum that gets lynched.

So, here's the deal:

If Yos is scum I'm smelling bookied scum all over that (i.e. that wasn't a "slip").

However, Yos D2 doesn't make a lot of sense as scum WITH Empking with Empking bookied.

And, Yos-play before that is town++.

----

As for the vig shot if I had a bullet Hiraki would have been up on the list some after that weird empking's not scum business. The "avoid the bookie" kill I can see SOME but not scum? Never. Post lynch he smelled really town again but if there's any time that smelling town is tricky versus a scum scent its then. So I really don't get the OMG on that shot. There could have been better, but still.

That said:

Unvote, Vote: Chair

Sketch aside early the simple fact there was no vote D2 and I fully expected at least A scum to avoid that wagon like the plague with the bookie being a pretty clear "SCUM BE HERE" sign.

[SpyreX]

Yossssss skip ahead some and stop being crazy please.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX: Generally positive opinion on this guy. Generally makes sense. Only major point against him is he was on the bad day 1 Ethos wagon.

I'm not going to soapbox too much but its not my fault mason in the secret decoder ring means scum every damn time.

I'll never get it.

If I get some energy this weekend and give a full case on Chair can we dance that way? I've given some clear nods in the iso but nothing in one spot.

[SpyreX]

Be still my heart. Such shock.

[SpyreX]

I lost this game in the bookmarks but it is not forgotten.

Tomorrow I got a blessed day off so I will compose a real case.

[SpyreX]

So its late but like I promised (and I wont get into too many details on site posts but):

Ythan, kanye and Îdher are town. Hiraki and parabollocks are scum.

Unvote, vote: parabollocks

-implosion

Early game blah blah but pay attention to how this ties into the two below.

So we've talked.

Dramonic- we agreed that he's null for now, but he goes V/LA before actually posting anything significant
Ethos- Conflicted views (Misder- I read him as scummy- its questionable, but I feel hes defensive) (implosion- unsure, but gut reaction is townsided)

Hiraki- town read

Idher- still town read

Kanye- Conflicted between the heads (Misder- I read as town-sided) (implosion- leaning towards scum)

Knight- town read

Kunk- needs to post more, can't get a read off of what he's posted
Oversoul- town read
Parabollocks- scum read
Quilford- town read

Spyrex- meh. (Misder- I can't read him and I put him as null) (implosion- posts feels off, gut reaction is scum)

Swag- (Misder- I have to decide whether I view his posts as noobtown or noobscum, and I'm leaning noobscum) (implosion- no real reads yet)

T-bone- (Misder- I say hes town) (implosion- no real reads yet)

The Mask- needs to post more, can't get a read off of what he's posted
Tripod- (Misder- I say hes scummy) (implosion- no real reads yet)

Ythan- town read

Also- implosion wants me to ask you Spyrex- why did you add "Is this already at L-1?" to the end of your 162? That line bothers him.

Unvote Since Para is getting a replacement, we feel like replacement deserves a chance.

-Misder

This is the first list. This is important because of the bolded.

Hiraki
KKB
KoC
T-Bone
SpyreX
Ythan

Ythan, I understand why he's on there. Spyrex, it makes sense to put oneself on there. Hiraki, I also understand. But knight, t-bone and kanye? I can understand townreads on these people - but it seems like spyrex has ridiculously strong townreads on them for this point in the game. Especially t-bone and kanye. I also just kind of don't like the proposition of a 6-person voting block when: A, there are plenty of people that still have barely posted; B, it's only a 17-person game and 6 people is 2/3 of a lynch wagon; and C, there's no town reason to have such damn strong town reads on these people. Another notable point:

Now, you'll notice something. My list, the one he took such great umbrage with?

None of those reads are scum by the bipolar hydra.

The closest, the CLOSEST, is me. At "ohh, teehee he's null / ohh, teehee he's scum."

Further, at the start of the game he didn't have any issues with calling out town reads. Consider that post the classic one in three. And I totally expected a scum to have itchy feet about that. My bet? I was right and we're looking at a clean town sweep in there.

That's the important bit. That shapes it.

The rest of the iso? When he's not talking about me D1 or "waiting for his hyrda partner" we get nothing.

Until this:

I’m back from out of town. Honestly though, I haven’t read through the thread carefully yet.

Implosion however has provided a list for me to post:
Town reads: dram, ethos, hiraki, oversoul, t-bone, yos2, ythan, îdher, knight

He also comments that this game is a game where he’s better at finding strong town reads than scum reads.
And that Spyrex lynch is not necessary today.

We do agree with Ethos that UT has been even scummier. I also want to note how he’s been on both the Para/Yos wagon and the Ethos wagon, seemingly always jumping on a bandwagon.

Vote Untrod Tripod

We are okay with a Quilford/

Emp

lynch, although honestly, neither of us get a strong scum read from them.

-Misder

Vote town, FoS buddy while saying they dont actually think their scum. Noice.

And since its a giant wall I'll just link: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3161166

Holding hands with mastin town mctowntown? Check.
Saying I'm scum but not attacking because "its not the right time"? Check.
Saying empking is "null by definition"? Check.
Being a "helper" about the deadline? Check.

-----

So we come out to D2 and we get this:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3176073

This is a scum position. A live scum partner IS better than two shots. Further, when it swings against who looks all the better because scum are going to want to get the bookied target lynched? Yep. He's the scum off.

And, of course, not another post that day.

-----

Sans defense or other shenanigans:

VOTE: kanye
I've explained why he's scum. 754 had my primary case (so far) on him. There was also more in 869 and 873. He never responded to any of these. I may coalesce a case in one post on him at some point soon. He's the best lynch for today.

At this point, Misder and I agree on kanye and spyrex as scum. Mastin's post with one of {us, spyrex} and one of {kanye, yos} was good, and I agree with it.

The thing, the ONE thing you'd think a town-hyrda would do here? Mention that KKB had a higher chance of being scum because he was on the Emp wagon.

Of course, that's hard to do when you're scum. Better blame this on mastin on the way out.

---

This is scum. This is how scum play.

[SpyreX]

I'll deal with the rest in the morn but:

And, of course, not another post that day.

You are right. I misspoke there (go go no editng).

And, of course, not another useful post that day.

You had two more posts that day:

One flinging mud with KKB and the other saying "we need more everyone".

My bad.

[SpyreX]

He I was never criticizing your list for being full of people that I thought were scummy - I was criticizing you because I didn't see any possible way that early in the game to justify such ridiculously strong town reads on so many people. You said something like "If these people were the only ones alive and the game wasn't over, i'd be genuinely surprised" - this implies extremely confident reads. I was criticizing you because such strong reads were, I thought, impossible to justify at that point in the game. See point A in my quoted post for more reason about that.

Although, this is a beautiful example of a strawman argument... you take what I was saying (unjustifiably strong townreads), say that I was saying something else (that people on the list were scum) when I NEVER said anything VAGUELY like this, and then attack that new position ("but they never called these people scum!!!")

Ohh NOES STRAWMAN.

Leaving aside the fact you had no problem coming out with strong reads early on that's not the point:

If I'm right about that list (and I think I am) scum can't just let it happen. However, a full frontal attack is suicide AND just furthers my goals. So, you've got to prod at it and poke at it. Something along the lines of "Ohh, look at your

confident

reads." trying to spark doubt (and its not like this was a page 3 list).

So, I'm 'attacking your original argument' with the added bonus of showing very clearly you don't have a leg to stand on because those MATCH YOUR OWN READS.

First point: no, it wasn't a fos. I explained this in the response to kanye above - the deadline was approaching and an emp wagon existed while a UT wagon, I believe, didn't. You're right, I didn't say he was scum. I didn't say he was a fos. I said he was null leaning town and that in the event of needing to lynch empking to get a lynch through, that we would support his wagon (especially over yos's).
"holding hands with mastin" I'll assume that by this, you mean the way that I stated my reads... I was planning to do this before I saw mastin's post. I find it easier to townhunt than to scumhunt in many cases. I don't see how it's scummy either, seeing as you seem to imply that it is.
I explained why it was, as you put, "not the right time." Several times in fact. You quoting it and twisting my/misder's words to sound scummy does not make it scummy.
Empking is null by definition in my opinion. Again - you quoting something doesn't make it scummy.
we were being a "helper" about the deadline because we didn't want there to be a nolynch - AGAIN, you twisting our words doesn't make it scummy in the slightest... calling us a "helper" doesn't make us scummy IN THE SLIGHTEST... sure, there's a possible scum motivation for helping with the deadline (wanting to look like town). There's also a very OBVIOUS town motivation (the desire to have a lynch). You haven't justified why one of these is more likely than the other.

Will

1.) Semantics doesn't change "I'd be ok with lynching him" being an expression of suspicion.
2.)
"Not to imitate mastin, but this leaves for the most likely scum as far as i can tell: kanye, untrod, spyrex, empking, kunkstar, saporo, mrzepher."

This isn't "I agree with mastins reads and this is why" this is a parrot. This is holding hands with mastin.
3.) No one is 'null by definition'. That is a meta copout that with him flipping scum and you going "Ohh I'm ok with this lynch" it sure as hell wasn't null. In fact, IN THAT POST, you went "he's kind of townish" too. So even you don't believe he's null.
4.) There was never, ever going to not be a lynch. Pushing UT and going "deadline comin guys" is bunk.

As for scum not wanting to be on the wagon, this is in a sense at some point a wifom argument... scum will want to be on the wagon because it'll give towncred because empking is scum, but they'll want to be off because it looks scummy to be on bookied scum. In the end, it boils down to two things:
1) scum needed to push that wagon in order to get the bookie through.
2) if the wagon had failed that day and we had gone with a different lynch and lynched empking later, scum would have lost that bookie shot. scum HAD to push the wagon THAT DAY. This isn't a normal lynch wagon - it's a wagon that the scum needed to go through THAT DAY to get the bookie. Even if they had a second/third/whatever shot, they would have wanted to save those extra shots. Post

This isn't a function of WIFOM. Its a scum win-win in all scenarios but a different scum getting lynched. Either you have Empking another day OR you get to shots that night.

You came in and went "lol bookie" and "lol meta" and then...threw mud at KKB your next post and then went "we need more talking guys!" and no where in there even laid a vote down.

3 Um. what. why. what. what does this mean. why is this. what the fuck does this mean... why would you "expect" town to say this... why wouldn't scum say this...

In summary: this anti-us wall has a lot of "paraphrased" quotes from us that are rephrased in ways to make them sound scummier and about two or three places where spyrex overtly calls something scummy or explains why something we've done is scummy, one of which is just a damn blatant misrepresentation of the truth, and at least one other blatant lie.

~implosion

Why would I expect town to actually use things that have happened to adjust their reads versus the same agenda? GOORSH.

/strawman /misrep /lie

/emo

Vote Chair 2011

[SpyreX]

I want to start by pointing out to the masses my SUPER SECRET breadcrumb in my last post: He will post (in) 3 (hours).

Because there was no doubt it would happen. Because he's here and has been here. Just like putting their head in the sand on empking day.

I will deal with that whole mess in a bit but lets cut to the chase:

4) yes, there wouldn't have been a nolynch because people are vigilant enough to make sure that there isn't one. However, deadline still makes it necessary to hurry. Our UT vote was partially because there was already a vote on him and partially because he was the scumread that we had the most agreement on at that point.

Bullll shit.

There was no votes on UT when you voted. In fact, this is the first votecount after your UT vote:

Yosarian2 (3): Swag136, Knight of Cydonia, Untrod Tripod
Hiraki (2): dramonic, Empking
Îdher (1): Oversoul
Empking (5): Îdher, Ethos, kunkstar7, saporovirus, Yosarian2
Oversoul (1): Hiraki
Chair (1): SpyreX
Untrod Tripod (2): Chair, mastin2

Not voting: kanyeknowsbest, T-Bone

So the lynch you were "ok" with was an actual viable wagon at the point you tossed down your throwaway vote that then lived there for the rest of the day.
You said you were ok with an emp lynch when he was a viable wagon and before you gave your read on him being 'townish' + qualified garbage.
Both of these happened before emp claimed which is the only thing that saved his ass.

[SpyreX]

Or, if you will, FoS Buddy, vote town.

[SpyreX]

....

Except that's exactly what the PM says?

Woooo

[SpyreX]

Your teammates are (PLAYERNAMES). Each night, you may select a player. If that player is lynched the next day, you may perform an extra kill in addition to your factional the following night. During the day, you have your voice and your vote only. You win when mafia is equal in number to town, or nothing can prevent the same.

I'm not sure how you can read anything but "use a shot, select a player, if they're lynched two kills."

Not "Maaaaybe use a shot if you're right otherwise dance party."

And I was absolutely clear that REGARDLESS of the bookie or not you lynch scum. Period.

[SpyreX]

No huh.

I want to know the thought process that led to not the clear conclusion to begin with.

[SpyreX]

What 'every night' are you talking about?

The "each night you may" part?

[SpyreX]

Considering I'm pretty confident on Chair being scum and then you throw out junk as a towntell, yea, I think it just might affect your alignment.

[SpyreX]

What scum/other scum?

Yos is town still, fyi.

[SpyreX]

Hrmmmm.

[SpyreX]

I'd lean that way too but its soo strange it bothers me intrinsically (like the Idher business).

[SpyreX]

What?

Normally I'd lean town. However when its painted on the first page its easier to fake. Like not knowing how the bookie works.

[SpyreX]

Tone nonwithstanding, do you get what I'm saying?

[SpyreX]

Chair's scum. Idher is a probable partner.

Yos is town. You are town. Mastin is town. Kanye is town although I'm starting to get paranoid at him being gone soo much.

The rest are in the shuffle. Mastin raises a good point about Zeph buttt see Idher paranoia about that being faked.

PoE says the last scum is in Sapo/Oversoul/Kunk. Oversoul is the least likely there by a wide margin (I forgot Kunk was even IN this game).

[SpyreX]

Zephyr coming in and correcting you mastin, more than anything, makes me think town.

[SpyreX]

No. We're not lynching Chair or Zephyr. That is not how this is going to go down.

Your criteria is completely backwards. There were 15 players alive yesterday. That gave the town 7 lynches total to find the scum. By lynching Empking yesterday instead of putting it off (or giving a potential vig a night to deal with him, which would have worked), we brought that number down to 5. We know now that the bookie can't guess every night; keeping the scum guessing would weaken them. Lynching Empking cost us two lynches instead of one, and freed up the bookie target for other purposes.

We already knew Empking was scum at that point. We didn't need confirmation of his alignment to update our reads on other players. Nothing was accomplished by lynching him sooner, except wasting a lynch--and giving us a wagon full of scum to look at. No one except Hiraki was actually trying to keep Empking alive out of some perceived townishness. They were trying to save a lynch that we should absolutely have been able to save.

-Ether

I'm not even sure where to begin with this.

But lets make it clear:

A worst-case 2-1 is still better than a worst case 2-0. You find scum, you lynch scum. Period.

Aside from the fact that, while pretty obvious, it wasn't even guaranteed there was a bookie EVEN WITH that it was still absolutely the right call. If I could do that again today I would. Scum can not win a phyrric game with even a bookie.

Again, because this whole argument is bunk:

Scum can not win a phyrric game with even a bookie.

[SpyreX]

And that is assuming super awesome bookie. The ONLY way Empking wasn't the right lynch is...

1-shot bookie. That is it.

[SpyreX]

And that would be a vig shot on someone who.... defended Empking.

Huh, fancy that.

[SpyreX]

Actually what point is that trying to prove?

Yes, IF there's a vig who is wrong every night AND there's a bookie who picks right every day we lose? Yea.

How that equates to lynching Empking was a bad idea I'll never know.

YESSS mastin YESS

[SpyreX]

So if we knew there was a bookie AND we knew there was a vig AND we knew the vig wasn't Empking....

Sure.

I feel terrible now.

[SpyreX]

mastin is Ythan is town++. Sorry I missed that yo

[SpyreX]

I still don't get it because every bit of this is predicated on "we would have totally lynched other scum guys" or otherwise the absolute best case scenario with absolute hindsight... is the same as what we got.

[SpyreX]

I'm not 'opposed' to a sapo wagon, nor have I ever been. However watching Chair grease up for that wagon is a teaparty in space.

That doesn't change how ridiculous this is:

It's not predicated on that at all. The faster we kill off people of unconfirmed alignment (ie, not Empking), the faster we get an idea of who they would and wouldn't be scum with. (Which is the normal reason that even scum who almost certainly won't survive to endgame try to stall their deaths as long as possible--to deny the town information and connections.) Aside from the end of day votecount that everyone is interpreting the wrong way, the Emplynch got us...confirmation of an alignment we already knew. Yay?

The Chairwagon sucks because:
a.) He was not on the Empwagon and the scum are on the Empwagon
b.) I seriously don't even get what the case on him is supposed to be

The fact that SpyreX is voting him doesn't add to its credibility. Why are you opposed to a Sapo lynch?

-Ether

Chair claims scum right now. Do you lynch him?

Its that simple. You lynch scum.

There's no world in which a no to that question is the right answer. (blah blah multiball, etc).

Of course that's not near as ridiculous as:

This is just bad... Think of it from emp's point of view (in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if the mafia planned this in pre-game): He's going to be lynched. He's scummy. How does he save himself? Why, claim a confirmable power role! there's a bookie, so it not only delays his lynch a day, it gives the scum a free extra kill! Scum aren't going to lynch bus every single scum with a bookie - first of all, we don't even know how many shots the bookie has... second of all there's no reason that the scum couldn't try to push a lynch on a bookied townie instead of a bookied scum.

Which is better for the town: consuming one bookie-shot or consuming two bookie-shots in the case of a 2+-shot bookie?

I may be convinced to wagon sapo.

Also, Îdher, why exactly is kanye town?

Do you think for a second scum WANTED to bookie scum?

What would have changed if Empking was alive D3 in all scenarios BUT a dead bookie?

And your last question is so bad I don't even know lets try again:

Which is better for the town: killing a confirmed scum or lynching someone else?

[SpyreX]

I CANT READ ITS HARD

(Pssst thats not my issue yo).

Aaaandd we're back to the mystical vig business.

Empking being bookied does NOT change the simple fact he was the right call. He was booked because HE WAS GOING TO DIE.

The alternative is not lynching scum under the *mystical hopes* that different scum gets lynched or the net result is worse AND empking is there to do that same song and dance again.

[SpyreX]

Yes, the net result of not lynching confirmed scum has a pretty high risk of making things worse this is not rocket science.

I've got to bounce but good lord. You're literally trying to say an empking alive on D3 woulnd't have been "OHH GUYS WHAT IF HE WAS SUPER BOOKIED TWICE"

[SpyreX]

....

All those good Zeph feelings? Gone.

[SpyreX]

That really wouldn't bother me if it weren't the fact that you're trying to cook up a wagon under me on top of that.

This one killed it dead, dead dead

[SpyreX]

And if others really need me to continue arguing this empking business I will BUT LORD I can't believe I'm having it on two fronts. More than 0 fronts makes me seethe.

[SpyreX]

The fact that you're still a fresh enough young buck that literally going you're voting for me thus scum is, in fact, scummy as all getout.

[SpyreX]

Sapo's wagon zips up the charts and chair doesn't get lynched after literally voting the sapo wagon in the same post as saying I'm a bigger scum read than KKB (note: this isn't referencing Sapo).

Yea, I'm smelling stink all over this. ALL over it.

[SpyreX]

kanye wagon stalled.

Unvote, vote: saporovirus

Pretty much sheeping idher since no one is wagoning spyrex or kanye. She's convinced me

to a fair extent

of saporoscum.

By the way: SpyreX has gradually become a stronger scumread than kanye.

-implosion

Yes this is stellar right here and I'm attacking it for "all the wrong reasons" compared to "all the right reasons".

Well done.

[SpyreX]

This wagon is junk and oozes of bookied.

So if this is how the song sings today bullets you damn well know where to go.

[SpyreX]

YEP you've got me. You watch a wagon pop up and the sheeples go a jumpin and I think OHH SNAP SCUM FOUND.

[SpyreX]

imho youre really reachin here spy. idher is town. and theres definitely scum on the wagon (chair) but i doubt its bookied. if theres a bookie shot in play today then its on me given how quickly i got halfway to lynch, but i doubt even that given how little effort went into keeping the wagon alive. zepher wagon was mega lazy too, and sapo took too long for me to believe it was bookie influenced.

Part of it is the way Chair is playing towards Idher would make me blush.

Part of it is chair being scum and being absolutely willing to leap there.

Part of it is both of them singing the same song about Empking.

[SpyreX]

I'll play along:

If I'm scum and there's bookie shots left why in the hell would you think you weren't bookied?

[SpyreX]

So, what is this mythical setup where a.) I'm scum and b.) I'm going to lock and load on you without a bookie and c.) I'd be overruled by teammates?

[SpyreX]

If I'm scum why would I be pushing so hard for YOUR mislynch if you werent bookied?

Are you saying I'm scum with... LLD then? I mean you've said so many names.

[SpyreX]

I thought you threw out kunk and ludi too. That's a misread my bad.

I'm just trying to figure out the thought process that is "SpyreX is scum and this is what scum do BUT I'm not bookied"

[SpyreX]

Except for the bookie is always going to be relevant. Especially when there's a tight race of lynches.

[SpyreX]

Ohh look KKB talks more sense.

Other news: water wet, sun shines.

[SpyreX]

A breath of life is good.

KKB is town though yo.

[SpyreX]

You're both setting off pings in my scumdar.

"LYNCH MASTIN"

"LOL ML IS 100%, TRIFECTA OF SCUM TELL"

And yet, I have NO VOTE from either of you.

ML has an FOS on Mastin?

Like, is this some elaborate b0rked bussing attempt?

Now, while this is silly because mastin is town AND ludi is town there's a much bigger question:

What is the difference with this and, like KKB said, the absolute absence of a vote EVER on from Chair on me?

[SpyreX]

Well SURE no one is going to "follow" when he never tries.

Work with me here.

[SpyreX]

Oversoul is, now and forever, either a mafia genius or town.

If it were me I'd be using the bookie hard and fast. Go down swinging, as it were.

Call it a bookied target or call it scum or what have you but this many wagons does not bespeak towns every which way.

[SpyreX]

There was no logical certainty to Empking as scum. You gave some argument about the early day start or something. That was not conclusive.

It could have been mod wifom

. You're implying that he was confirmed scum. HE WAS, in NO way shape or form *CONFIRMED* scum.

Are you serious?

Make this happen lord.

There was two total choices. TWO.

1.) Empking was scum.
2.) Empking was pants on head.

Even he knew it because he went "yo, pants on head". And the response to that is a bullet.

You know, like saying somehow the mod would influence this fact in a SEMI OPEN with no roles that could alter that shot.

[SpyreX]

(my favorite part is still the simple fact I'm his #1 scum read and you'd totally guess that from that post)

[SpyreX]

I can't believe there has been this many questions about this.

Your teammates are (PLAYERNAMES).

Each night, you may select a player.

If that player is lynched the next day, you may perform an extra kill in addition to your factional the following night. During the day, you have your voice and your vote only. You win when mafia is equal in number to town, or nothing can prevent the same.

There's no secret keeping shots or using all your shots on a player or different players or whatever other voodoo you crazies are trying to jog out.

[SpyreX]

Nowwww add to that mastin is Ythan is town and theeereee we go

[SpyreX]

Its not an insult like that. You've either got inside knowledge and are hiding it so well that you ooze town mctown or... you're town mctown.

[SpyreX]

Or to make it make more sense:

My title? That came from me being sooo illiterate in a game that I misread my role in such a fashion that through my being silly I could ONLY be town.

It was beautiful.

[SpyreX]

If you are scum, you're doing everything right in these last few posts.

[SpyreX]

If push comes to shove I could go that way.

By a large margin I prefer Chair.

[SpyreX]

I could be town now and KKB is the confirmed scum?
But I'm scum in the reads?
KKB is scum regardless of anything?

Cool stories.

[SpyreX]

I sure didn't see that as saying BOTH were scum, but that one of is and if kunk isn't then LLD is.

Which isn't awesome, but not what you're makin it out to be.

[SpyreX]

Quick check in but what in the HELL happened here?

I'll have real words tomorrow lets not do anything super awesome and have a lynch before then aight?

[SpyreX]

Ohh man you got me.

Because this is retarded because you're both town. OHH SNAP.

[SpyreX]

Your "interaction" is dumb but that doesn't change the components are town and town my lord man.

[SpyreX]

Ok, before this game gets burned into cinders lets take a step back and look at what started this debacle today:

Spoiler: Seriously You Guys

Ah, good. Howabouts you start us off, then?

Additionally, where's the Idher suspicion from?

Its been building. Don't be upset mastin. Your death is coming. It is assured.

And for the massclaim, I'll wait until everyone gets in here and confirms we're doing it, and then I can start off, popcorn style.

The person suggesting the MC doesn't wait for people to give feedback on the MC. They just do it, quickly, without hesitation. You have suspects, you have reasons to want an MC today (day before lylo), you begin.

NOW.

Or are confirmed scum. Claim or die, Ludi.

That is so anti-town its not funny. There is no need to rush, hahaha. The reasons I want a MC today the day before lynch or lose is the reason every town player wants one, to lock scum into their claims.

And yes, the person suggesting it is in fact waiting for feedback.

If a cop shows up with a guilty on scum, we put off the massclaim until tomorrow. There are several reasons to wait until everyone confirms about massclaim, all of them very town.

~~~

But vote me if you just can't help yourself. Lose control mastin, its already slipping apart. Pound for pound, extracting you flesh is going to be the sweetest treat of all.

Now, there's no names for a reason. Just look at those words. Look how quickly that escalated into a pissing match. At this point the chance of a scum biting on a town fight there is the least likely. Scum versus scum COULD make sense but then go into the wayback machine and remember that Ludi is KoC and mastin is Ythan.

This is TOWN ON TOWN good lord.

However, IF this is the stupid way this is going down (which it better not be) AND I was wrong about one of those two (which I'm not) it'd be mastin.

For this (abridged):

I can also tell, because you fail to realize LLD replaced Sapo, and therefore already has the third spot on my scumlist.
And I can tell further, because of the above, that you didn't realize that I've called a Chair-KoC/Ludi-Sapo/LLD scumteam, with my suspicion quite clearly listed in that exact order of strength. (Albeit only just--Chair and Ludi are quite close.) In other words, (how many times will I say it before it sticks?)

{Chair, SpyreX} are both opposite alignments. {KoC/Ludi, Kayne} are both very likely opposite alignments. {Sapo/LLD, Kunkstar} are both almost certainly opposite alignments.

I've made it pretty clear that this is because all of their interactions aren't townVtown. (Interactions are my primary scumhunting method nowadays.)

This was going into night.

The day STARTED with a vote where it would have made sense from this crazy rambling (me) but then shifted to Ludi which COULD make sense but:

kanyeknowsbest (1): Oversoul
Oversoul (1): LLD
^Both of these names need to switch to Ludi or me.
Kayne also needs to vote one of us. Immediately--he seems to be hinting strongly at thinking one of us is scum. (In particular, me.) Follow through, Kayne. You're not exactly great by VCA either, you know. Don't add to the list of charges by not taking a stance.

And additionally, every single post Ludi fails to start the MC by claiming his role and popcorning to elsewhere is another post where Ludi admits to being scum.

That in conjunction with the "1 vig = 1 bookie = no threat" which makes no sense considering they sacced Empking to eat masons instead of using it to win the game AND the simple 3 masons + vig > 1 shot bookie and any combination of the roles present is seriously creeping me out.

BUT, again, Ythan was town and that cred goes a long way.

Unvote, Vote: LLD

I was wrong about Chair and I'll get to hear the /emo after game BUT the simple fact is two wagons fighting like that? No.

[SpyreX]

THOSE wagons? I'm really thinkin so.

Add in that Ludi, Mastin and KKB are super town and Oversoul I'm pretty sure is town AND Chair not being scum makes me need to review Idher my options get smaller. I look at Zeph, Kunk and you and I could pretty much be easily blown any which way.

[SpyreX]

I wish I had an answer. Bookie doesn't make sense there.

Who was ADAMANT that LLD was scum and chair was town? In the classic "I've put myself in a position where I can't flip without becoming lynchbait" kinda way?

[SpyreX]

I'm FAR more receptive to idher being town with chair flipping town.

Although somewhere that means I'm missing something key and I don't like that.

[SpyreX]

Is this bipolar hydra time because I'm pretty sure the other head said that the emp lynch was THE WORST THING EVER (TM).

Moreso:

SpyreX, why are you bussing?

I want the thought process explained with a scumteam how in what world I'm bussing LLD with mastin putting on the cruise control and trying to leap off the cliff with ludi.

[SpyreX]

Counterpoint, once again:

mastin2

Ythan (replaced out D1)

[SpyreX]

Treestump huh?

Ehhh I'll have to think about that with 3 masons BUT for now

Popcorn: idher

[SpyreX]

HAHA my clever plans ruined for all eternity!

VT

:shamed:

[SpyreX]

You win this round bond.

[SpyreX]

One sec:

Why was it obvious Idher was the vig? (I actually thought it was you KKB until you claimed).

If I remember correctly Idher was the one that said Hiraki was a terrible vig shot out the gates.

If it weren't for her being the last one there's no way I'd have bought that being vig.

[SpyreX]

But if you're a one shot vig and that wagon looks obviously bookied why not claim and shoot?

If you're more than one shot why hold until claimtime? Two shot and I'll kind of understand but thats about it.

-----

Unless I'm wrong somewhere Zeph is pretty much scum by PoE. The thing is we need to get this under wraps if it goes that way because if I'm not wrong that means kunk was ballsy mcscum with a stump claim.

The only thing is I still think LLD-scum makes sense from yesterday so I'm gonna need ludi to eludicate. Especially with oversoul NOT being a scum mastermind and probably town.

[SpyreX]

So here's how it sits:

Idher: Town as per vig
Kunk: Ballsy scum probably via PoE
Ludi: Town
LLD: Scum per yesterday and PoE
KKB: Town
Mastin2: Town as per Ythan
Mr.Zepher: Scum per PoE
Oversoul: Town via being town.

-----

So if I'm NOT wrong scum is Kunk, LLD, Zepher. If I had to order those it'd be LLD Zeph/Kunk - I need to really think about balance with 3 masons + stump + vig versus even a bookie.

If I'm wrong somewhere it'd be mastin by a margin. Especially with the one shot bookie = one shot vig argument when that if kunk is town is so redonk I dont even know.

[SpyreX]

spy, do you think that empking stacked all his scum buddies into the middle of his reads? (see: viewtopic.php?p=3299028#p3299028)

That was really early in the game before he was actually ran up (only Yos / Idher were voting with him). I'd lean no on a gut / what I would do in that scenario.

Of course that doesn't pan out because with 3 scum partners and 4 lists I'd stuff one high/low and two in the middle (the middle being in his list town/null).

N1 being Ethos doesn't shed any light but that aside:

Idher is dead tonight. However, there's NOTHING that can prevent that shot. So, I say one of LLD, Zeph, Kunk get lynched and the other shot. Personal preference is LLD lynch and Zeph shot by a small margin over kunk.

If both of them are scum AND not the bookie then abandon ship the next day on the last and re-evaluate. If both of them are scum and the bookie is dead then I say powerlynch the last and go from there if the game doesn't end.

Now, this is pretty heavily predicated on the lynch being scum. If the lynch is town I would still take my shot in that group but I think taking the shot is key. Just god in heaven do NOT shoot oversoul or KKB.

[SpyreX]

Then LLD/Zeph and we'll go from there.

Part of it is the simple fact kunk has been in from start and has a magnificent 27 posts. Part of it is the treestump in combination with the setup. 3 masons + multi-shot vig + stump is a tough hill to climb even WITH a bookie.

The biggest part is PoE though. By a margin. Ludi's pissing contest with mastin like I said before is NOT something I would expect from scum at this point at all. I think he's been solid and KoC was p town himself.

[SpyreX]

Why are you trying to direct my vig shot?

Kunkstar scum makes no sense with empking scum OR LLd scum. Your suspicions don't jive.

I dont know how many times I have to repeat my statements to get it through.

We'll try it from the other way. Explain how a non entity "makes no sense" as scum.

Of course its moot because if I'm wrong there that many wrongs on my side is going to be me lynched tomorrow for the loss OR just shot tonight which would be some blessed freedom from mastin trying his hardest to lose this game.

Realistically if I'm wrong I'm wrong about him so if you're going to feed the beast and omg look at him directing my shots shoot whomever the hell you want.

[SpyreX]

Mastin AND Ludi are scum?

[SpyreX]

Someone got hotfoot scoop scoop.

Unvote, Vote: Zepher

[SpyreX]

You didn't ask a question. You went "ohh god why am I scum I dont understaaand" and then backtracked way back from "Mastin and Ludi are scum and SpyreX is because other people said so" to "One of Mastin AND Ludi is scum but I dont want to figure out which one now"

Which is super cool when Mastin and Ludi are town.

[SpyreX]

KKB you've went way off kilter here and lets play understand good:

If Ludi and Mastin are a potential scumteam whats the angle?

[SpyreX]

I just don't see Ludi scum is the probalo.

Of course the LLD-Zeph interaction makes me feel better about LLD BUT god we're running out of options that make sense.

Why couldnt YOU have been the vig? WHY.

The irritated part of me wants to hammer but no

[SpyreX]

And god damn oversouls getting me all paranoid now too I dont get it.

[SpyreX]

Yea this oversoul push is the yang to the zepher ying.

[SpyreX]

What the hell happened to everyone here?

[SpyreX]

(OMG directing vig /qq)

Zeph isnt' a bad idea for a shot fyi.

Unvote, Vote: LLD

[SpyreX]

Everything

was okay

got less awesome once you shot Spyrex.

Fixed that up.

Haters.

I have nothing but <3 for most of the players (sans my flakesalot partners early) and I have nothing but <3 for the individual pieces but I hate hydras. Sooo very much.