NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[Ethos]

/confirm

Also hi to all the people I have played with before (Dramonic, Ythan, Hiraki, Spyrex, Quilford, Kunkstar7, Parabollocks)
And hi to all my new freinds.

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

Swag is town.
Idher is town.

Discuss.

[Ethos]

Correction:

Oversoul is town.
Swag is town.

Vote Ythan

[Ethos]

Slaxx is in full control of this account until we are well out of RVS. Reg hates RVS.

He is keeping up with the thread, however, and he MSNed me saying Swag was probably town. I will have to ask him tomorrow. My guess is his eagerness to get the game started.

[Ethos]

are you scum hiraki

What was the purpose of this?

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

Hey everyone, as Slaxx made you aware I'm not a particular fan of the RVS so I allowed Slaxx to seize control of that period as it's something he enjoys. I have kept up to date with the thread and I'll be going into my reads later this afternoon after I have a conversation with Slaxx. For now Parabollocks can you provide links to your offsite scum-games.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Alright, had a discussion with Slaxx now and we've agreed on the following:

1. Sways eagerness to get the game started and constant observation of the thread as shown in post #23 reads as a town-tell. Mafia would have no instant need to rush into the gamestart as they would be much more interested in discussing thoughts and tactics in the mafia QT. I don't find his L-1 vote a scum-tell purely due to his lack of experience.

2. Oversouls claimage over the ownership of the Idher wagon reads as a town-tell, I don't see scum openely taking responsibility as an Idher town-flip would put them in an awful position, similary I don't see Oversoul bussing Idher.

3. Idher could you care to elaborate on what makes you believe Hiraki is scum because I'm not understanding the large suspicion cast against Hiraki. His play doesn't seem different from any of the games of his I've seen, if anything his reaction to the vote reads as town as does his unvote.

4. Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler and fluff posts look bad. His recent backpedalling to a degree reads as very off though the speed of the bandwagon and his reaction towards it reads as geninuely frustrated town.

Vote: Kayne

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Sigh. Spyrex+Ythan please explain what is wrong with the logic in our posts.

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

1. Yes, this is a bit of a stretch, but it is also the first town read we had, Reg actually pointed it out to me pregame.
2. Uh, no. What scum newbie comes in, RVSs someone, sees a bandwagon has formed on that player, and then totes about it. That isn't scum behavior at all.

[Ethos]

2. Uh, no. What scum newbie comes in, RVSs someone, sees a bandwagon has formed on that player, and then totes about it. That isn't scum behavior at all.

And you think it's town behavior? Just because it would be dumb for scum doesn't mean it's town. It's null at best.

Did I say it would be

dumb

for scum to do that? No, I didn't.

Think about when scum get on a bandwagon. Think about what they do. They need town cred to survive. There are two ways to get that:
1. Bus a scumbuddy
2. Argue against a townie's lynch

He is taking credit for what is probably a townie's lynch in that post that is all there is to it. The only way he is scum is with amrun.

[Ethos]

You're the one who brought his newbie status into this and yet the rest of your argument falls apart when you don't sweep that under the rug.

...No, it really doesn't.

Regardless of whether he is a newbie or not it is still a towntell. I think the fact that he is a newbie makes it more of a towntell.

[Ethos]

1. Continual filler = 5 posts?
2. Backpedaling = not backpedaling and being obstinate?
3. Reaction = I hate this site = town?

1. Yes. Five fluff posts none with any real scumhunting attempt or town thought processes show is filler.
2. He did backpedal, he went from "I was baiting a reaction" to "It was RVS".
3. Yes. Town being piled on early in the game often get frustrated and complain about the game whereas scum getting piled on panic, flail and generally claim.

Regfan

(The previous posts have been Slaxx's)

[Ethos]

Ethos is speaking in ridiculous absolutes imo.

What was the point of this post?

[Ethos]

I'm honestly baffled as to why people aren't reading the taking credibility for the wagon as either

1. Indicative they are both scum
2. Indicative he is town

[Ethos]

I don't really know how to explain this any more plainly to you. You're wrong. If you're both wrong then fortunately you're a hydra and not two wasted votes.

We'll do this the long way then. Please answer the following questions:

1) Do you believe Oversoul would come in, vote Idher and instantly attempt to claim credit for the wagon start if they were partners together?
2) Do you believe Oversoul would come in, vote Idher and instantly attempt to claim credit for the wagon start if it were to result in a town-flip?

1.) Versus T-Bone's 4 what makes KKB the SUPREME NEMISIS?
2.) He's holding to it and still didn't actually answer the questions presented.
3.) Ohh you mean like: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3130139 or: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3130093

1. T-Bone actually presented reasonable content in Post #123 whereas the extent of Kayens includes him asking a player if they were mafia or not.
2. I don't disagree that he hasn't answered the questions presented however he did backpedal from I was baiting for a reaction to It's a good RVS vote.
3. I was thinking more along the lines of this post, perhaps reading a few of his games would explain why this sort of comment reads as a town-tell.

Ethos is speaking in ridiculous absolutes imo.

Our reads are not rock solid, if they were we would be yelling for everyone to unvote Para however I believe it's needed to mention them as we attain them.

Regfan

[Ethos]

Spyrex, chill. Right now it is Reg Vs. Spyrex and Ythan Vs. Slaxx, though Ythan has decided to completely close the discussion off with insults, which is fine with me, I'm fucking tired of his dense ass anyway.

[Ethos]

What do you call "Your argument is dumb" if it isn't closing off discussion? It sure as fuck isn't opening discussion up.

Tell me exactly how I respond to "You argument is dumb".

Also, lol@ calling me flailing scum. Here's a protip: look at my scum games. I don't flail as scum. And I'm not flailing here either, at all. I'm sticking by this read because despite what you say its logical and it makes sense to me. If you don't like it, okay, fine, we have a difference of opinions, it happens. But I'm right and you're wrong, ftr.

[Ethos]

1.) No. You can't go after the fact for before the fact. We're talking about WHEN he voted him. If the argument is who stepped it up since then yes the winner is T-Bone who's actually a pretty town read.
2.) No. It isn't backpedal its padding. Its never rescinded.
3.) OHH META ok then.

1. Not at all, his vote was placed just after Kayne had stated 'Hiraki are you mafia' which is entirely filler therefore I find his vote highly reasonable, especially considering if I were to vote at that period of the game my vote would also have gone there. I can agree with the T-Bone town read though.
2. I consider someone saying A and then changing to B 'backpedaling' perhaps I have a misconception of what the word means but it changes nothing in regards to my read on him.
3. Yes, I've played a game with Para-town and Slaxx has modded and observed a game where Para was town, it's the reason I asked for a scum-game of his to compare them.

Regfan

[Ethos]

1 is definitely possible. 2 is not out of the question.

Not the question. Do you believe 1 or 2 is the case here, it's a simple yes or no question.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

1.) At that point KKB had 5 fluffy posts. T-Bone had 4 fluffy posts. Leaving the fact that fluffy posts there doesn't even bother ME the lord of hate I dont even know.
2.) A no B is a lot different than A AND B. Which is what he did. A is the obstinate bit I'm talking about.
3.) And again OHHH META snap. Meta is ffffffff

1. Two of T-Bones fluff posts were prior to game start and the posts differed greatly from KKB's. Honestly, attempting to compare them is a joke.
2. You can consider it however you like, the way I continue reading it is he changed from A to B without attempting to use both as a continued defence.
3. Do you deny that meta is a valuable tool that should be used when had?

That was two separate questions actually. That's how you posted it. Are you seriously going to be doing this all day.

I could attempt to jab and insult you here due to your lack of comprehension over the question asked or your attempt at being a nuisance for the sake of it but I'm going to make this easy for you. Do you believe Oversoul and Idher are town or scum. And no, I'm not going to continue to do this all day I have finals to study for so I likely won't be too active in the upcoming days.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

I really don't believe it's that hard to comprehend the reasons behind why we believe Oversoul is town. I can understand that you may disagree with them but you've taken it beyond disagreement and instead attempted to belittle them while smearing us.

Regfan

[Ethos]

How would one of us dying clear the other one.

[Ethos]

How the shitfuck am I supposed to know which one would go first. Isnt that up to the town? And I don't understand how death without alignment would clear the other one.

[Ethos]

LOL. I actually thought that was what you were getting at but there is no fucking way I would softclaim that just because you asked me.

[Ethos]

Yes, it is true that T-Bone was less fluffy after that arbitrary point of Reck opening the thread in the three hours that we are talking about which alters it from fun fluffy time to SERIOUS BUSINESS but if you can straight face tell me this isn't application after the fact or some kinda moonbeam defense well I dont even know.

I don't take much notice of anything said before the game heads of however I do once it does, so yes I found T-Bone and Kaynes content at that point exceedingly different. Enjoy:

Spoiler: Notes I had from game start to my inital post:

#35 Kayne - Don't like
#36 Para - What I would have done. Town-tell.
#42 Oversoul - Towntell
#49 Oversoul - Do not like
#59 Kayne - Don't like
#69 Qulford - Slight town-tell.
#81 Para - Backpedalling

Idher is not mafia with Oversoul - #64
Kayne is not mafia with Hiraki - #59
Idher is not mafia with Hiraki - #93
Swag is not mafia with Para - #125
Untrod is not mafia with Para - #141
SpyreX is not mafia with Para - #115, #120

[Ethos]

Okay, so I'm not a mason then. lololol

[Ethos]

Sooo you would have made your vote for KKB in #36 based on: #35 Kayne - Don't like and that it. That is the SCUM FOUND that makes para town town town?

You're going to have excuse me here. 1. Where did I say Para was towntown? I said that action was a town-tell by him however I certaintly don't see it making him certain town, right now our read on him is one of our weaker town-reads by far. 2. Where did I say Kayne wa scum-found? He's merely my leading suspect at the moment and for reasons other than that post.

[Ethos]

Well thats nice.

I guess the fact we just disagree on logic means there is no possible way we can both be town.

[Ethos]

The briefest of readings over our conversation reveals that excuse to be completely bullshit.

Perhaps you need glasses then:

Parabollocks intial post #36 we read as a town-tell because it's where I would have placed my vote as well mainly due to Kaynes continual filler and fluff posts look bad. His recent backpedalling to a degree reads as very off though the speed of the bandwagon and his reaction towards it reads as geninuely frustrated town.

Our reads are not rock solid, if they were we would be yelling for everyone to unvote Para however I believe it's needed to mention them as we attain them.

You're going to have excuse me here. 1. Where did I say Para was towntown? I said that action was a town-tell by him however I certaintly don't see it making him certain town, right now our read on him is one of our weaker town-reads by far.

THIS: Is what you say about a

weak

town read?
And the only thing(s) you've said about KKB are that you don't like two specific posts and that you would have voted at #36 because of "continual filler".

1. Yes, I bring up the fact that I believe X is town even if it's a weaker town read if there's any chance of X being lynched which there was.
2. The notes that I showed you are MINE, the vote that was placed on KKB was done after having a discussion with Slaxx over BOTH of our reads as you would see here: Had a discussion with Slaxx now and we've agreed on the following

[Ethos]

Oh Jesus fucking christ now spyrex is even being snarky.

This has escalated out of control. Idk about reg but I am done arguing until we get some fresh thoughts in here. We can bring it up after some new people add to the discussion. Night guys.

[Ethos]

It's a scum qt, he claimed not-mason.

Tsk.

[Ethos]

1.) Its the simple fact you've went ohhh 36 is a good solid town vote because of the streams of fluff and then showed your notes that are one post of don't like at that point.
2.) I'm not prescient and can't read your

scum

mason

hydra QT so what in the hell. You said these are the reads and their based on....rollerblades?

It's probably easier to go through the system I'm attempting to use here, it's as follows:
a) Make notes on a sticky notepad while reading through the thread. b) Bring up these notes when having a discussion with Slaxx, find out what reads we share and where we have disagreements. c) Once the exact post has been discussed I attempted to delete it from the notepad with the exclusion of impossible scum-teams which I move to our Hydra QT for later usage. d) Proceed to posting the reads we both share agreement on in-thread.

Glasses to, what, show me where I'm calling you scum because we disagree on logic? Are they some kind of zany cardboard things out of the back of a comic book? Your inability to even reference the real reason you've being attacked is bad news.

I believed you were attempted to reference #218, my apologies, from a look-over I would assume you're referencing #220. If this is the case, please quote it in the future. The crux of your reasoning behind suspecting us stems from a disagreement of reads where you believe it's illogical or implausiable that we could believe what we currently do, so yes it does come done to logic disagreements.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Idk about reg but I am done arguing until we get some fresh thoughts in here.

When you don't follow through with things like this it just looks like you want an excuse to stop posting.

Its 1 fucking AM.

I have an appointment at 9 AM.

We're going nowhere with this. IF I wanted an excuse to stop posting, I would have said "I'm done" or "Whatever" or something dismissing.

I DID NOT SAY THAT. I said this is going in circles, lets wait for some fresh thoughts. You are literally trying to through flak at me every opportunity you get.

[Ethos]

Ythan, I speak in absolutes a lot man, you know this. Think about when I was in your nightless game. I had solidifed town reads and I used PoE to get lynches. (yes lol one of the town reads was scum) but thats just how I play man. I get as many town reads as I can on day 1. I am not good with scum tells. You know that, if you had read your modded game you would know I start with town and work my way down, and that I trust my town reads. You would also see that every now and then I get one wrong. This might be the case, idk. But to call me scum for that is silly.

You get what im saying?

[Ethos]

You are literally trying to through flak at me every opportunity you get.

Fucking cry about it. I'm criticizing your actions. If you don't like it go to Neopets or something.

Go fuck yourself Ythan, there was no need for this at all.

[Ethos]

1. You're exaggerating his activity and framing it as townish when there is no reason to take it that way.
2. You're making assumptions that you have no reason to be making.

1. We never mentioned his activity and we've explained our reasoning behind our read on him.
2. We've already discussed this and it boils down to a different opinion on logical conclusions that can be drawn or not.

And you think it's town behavior? Just because it would be dumb for scum doesn't mean it's town. It's null at best.

This is the defintion of disagreement on reasonable logic.

Specifying only scum games invalidates what you are pretending to be doing here btw.

I've read his town-games, as I've said I played in one therefore the only meta I was missing was a scum-game.

Regfan.

(All mine have been signed except for #214, #218 and #223, the rest are Slaxxs.)

[Ethos]

You're using selective and ridiculous absolutes. And that's one part of why I'm calling you scum.

They are selective to you, not me. I'm totally up for the fact that I might be wrong, but don't think I am. I use ridiculous absolutes a lot, its just what I do. Yeah, its self meta, but its what I do. You can literally look back at any of my recent games and see that I have adapted a new strategy of committing to town reads and lynching based on PoE in the non-town read pool. It happened in nightless. From my point of view, it looks like you are calling me scum because I am wrong. And I realize that some of those tells were stretches but they were literally from pregame to our current page we were on before this started. So yeah, some of the tells would be stretches at first. Its the beginning of the game, so its to be expected. What specifically is scummy about the selective absolutes? Where specifically are we being selective?

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

Quil, Idher, go back and read our tells and tell us what you think of them. I'm specifically interested in the Oversoul tell which is a tell I think Quilford agreed with.

[Ethos]

God Ythan give me specifics. Quote me, tell me why you believe the thought process is incorrect.

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

1. Activity as in the activity you were discussing, not his posting frequency.
2. No, see, you're lying. And you're framing it as something on which we can't hope to come to an agreement so you can avoid supporting it.
3. You're disagreeing with my reasonable logic.

1. There's no exaggeration done whatsoever, I've openely stated that the town-read on him isn't strong.
2. I'm not doing anything of the sort, I've said I find it unreasonable to believe that Overs actions against Idha make him likely to be mafia at all as I believe mafia would avoid claiming resposibility for a town lynch and I don't see him bussing that manner. You're saying I can't believe that which is where the issue is formed.
3. There we go again, because I disagree with your opinion that must result in us being, scum. Your logic is impeccable.

SpyreX, you've just quoted two differents heads posts and attempted to call that a contradiction.

Regfan.

(Ythan, Slaxx isn't "Having trouble keeping up", I've requested for him to let me reply to you because right now he's incredibly ticked of by the fact you're continuing to ignore everything we're saying)

[Ethos]

Ythan, I just addressed all of the points you brought up earlier about why you believed we were mafia, disproved them and and now you're honestly attempted to quit arguing, really. Alright, I too am heading of for the night Statistics exam I need to study for. I'm going to leave a list of our reads so Ythan can poorly attempt to tear them apart while I'm gone.

Town:

Swag, Idher, SpyreX, T-Bone, Oversoul, Parabollocks.

Null:

Dramonic, Knight, Hiraki, Quilford, Tripod, Chair, Kunkstar

Mafia:

Kayne, TheMask

Uncertain:

Ythan (I say badtown, Slaxx is yelling scum.)

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Kunk of 2 posts is null and Mask of three is scum are you SERIOUS. WELP

Unvote, Vote: Ethos

@Regfan: explain how you've deduced The Mask mafia

To be perfectly honest, it's mostly meta-related. The last game I played with TheMask was Spare Me Mafia, he was scum and active lurked and V/LA'ed through the game until he ended up replacing out. The complete lack of attempt by him to to assist progressing the game in any way before leaving reads as highly similar to that.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

I dont even. Leaving aside the fact you just accused them of faking a V/LA to dodge the nothing right now wellll. Its not my place since I long ago deduced the altitude of TheMask but it isn't like there is any kind of large gathering known of on this forum that would correspond to someone being gone during that time frame.

It's not exactly that I believe he's faking V/LA, it's I believe he's attempting to skeet by doing minimal before actually going V/LA - Not the strongest reasoning I'm aware however it's a scum-read nevertheless. I'm not currently aware that he's an alt but thanks for openly revealing that.

Ethos: How does that compare to Mask's town play?

From what I observed his town play involves a lot more effort being put in towards the game, especially at game start.

[Ethos]

SpyreX, are you really unable to fathom the fact that a judgement was made in relation to his posts having a similarity to a previous scum game of his giving me the inclination to believe it's entirely possible he's scum again. While you're seemingly online I'm curious if you'd be willing to share your thoughts on Quilford at the moment, he's a player I've been shifting back and forwards on.

Regfan

(Previous post was mine as well.)

[Ethos]

SpyreX, again, I haven't said that I believe his V/LA is fake however I believe it's entirely possible that he's exaggerating the effects of it and skeeting by, this is something the mod would be unaware of thereby unable to deal with.

For the record it's posts like #287 and #288 and that are completely uneeded. They actually add nothing to the game except an attempt to insult another player which has seemingly led to Slaxx being infuriated and insistant that Ythan is scum which I get stuck with attempting to talk him out of.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Ythan, I haven't taken it as an insult nor have I attempted to bitch and moan about your play, I find it frustrating sure but not entirely unbearable though I know for a fact that Slaxx has. I don't have any scum-reads at the moment that I would say that I feel incredibly strong about though I do have multiple strong town reads including Oversoul, T-Bone, SpyreX, Idher and some degree yourself though Slaxx strongly disagrees with that one.

SpyreX, you continue to miss the point. I can't make myself any clearer than this, I don't believe he's "Kinda V/LA" but I believe he had an opportunity to actually make a dent on this game and avoided doing so thus 'skeeting by'.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Amrum, in Speed Mafia, and oh jesus christ I thought skeet just meant to slide by but I just looked it up, I'm going to find myself the nearest cliff and jump.

SpyreX, again, I've said this the similarities between Spare Me Mafia and this game read as strong.

Ythan, can you rephrase or explain Post #295, I'm having difficulty understanding it.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Ythan, are you attempting to imply that I have no excuse for not answering your questions because I have been doing so whenever I believed productive.

Amrum, in Speed Mafia his posts generally included large quantities of content without any real excuse posting, this differs from his scum game that I was in with him as well as Resurgance Mafia.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Your slot has been dodging a lot of posts in favor of playing the victim.

List them (Post #'s would be more prefered than quotes) because I believe I've responded to everything.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Would you agree that the following are your four main points that you attempted to bring up, a simple yes or no shall suffice:

1. That you believe we're exaggerating Para's actions.
2. That you believe we're making incorrect assumptions in regards to our Oversoul town-read.
3. That asking for a scum game from Para invalidates the entire reason for aking him for anything.
4. That you believe we're using a lot of selective absolutes.

[Ethos]

Those were the early basis of my case against you. Your shifty play in I would say more than 50% of your posts since then and your overflowing generosity with minor scum points have not helped.

See no. Just no, you attempt to attack me and accuse me of dodging questions and posts directed towards me via playing the victim card when this isn't true at all, everything that's been brought up I've discussed as shown again below. So again if there's something I haven't addressed link it, otherwise stating that I'm dodging posts is a blatant lie.

1. That you believe we're exaggerating Para's actions

I've explaiend in detail that my town-read on Para isn't strong though I brought it up intially because if a player that I have a town-read on regardless how weak is likely getting lynched I need to be vocal about disagreeing with it.

2. That you believe we're making incorrect assumptions in regards to our Oversoul town-read.

This issue has been beaten to death, Overs play reads as town through and through and this is a read that's not weakening at all, I still fail to see him acting in the way he did as scum.

3. That asking for a scum game from Para invalidates the entire reason for asking him for anything.

Again, been answered, I know Para's town meta via playing with him therefore only needing the scum meta.

4. That you believe we're using a lot of selective absolutes.

Slaxx discussed this, we both have a tendacy to attain stronger town-reads than scumreads thereby stating any reads we get when we gain, I'm aware that the reasoning behind some of them this early in the game are weak however they change as the game progresses.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

You incurable fool. I'm doing my best not to play the beat scum over the head with their own goddamn shortcomings game. You can be lynched without your own participation. Your errors are plain to see with half a brain.

See, this is exactly what happened last time I pointed out all the flaws in your arguments, if you're actually town like I believe you are attempt to discuss it with me here now, otherwise you're going to look like a massive idiot later for blindly tunneling.

[Ethos]

The absolute shittiest type of player on this site is the one who can't grasp the fact that simply providing answers to points is distinct, by an incredible distance, from proving anything, and often from even providing a satisfactory excuse for bad play. Do you want to be that guy?

If you attempt to come across and say x is mafia due to a, b and c and then find a b and c to all be invalid it should be more than a reasonable amount of proof that your conclusion is indeed wrong. I look forward to your post later though, I very much do. As much as I would love to stay and continue to have this completly pointless discussion with you now though I have far more vital thing I need to do. Have fun being a complete moron while I'm gone though.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Ethos: what makes my fluff

(I don't believe that my pointed comments towards Hiraki were fluff)

more of a sin then the half a dozen players who have contributed less?

also meta arguments are bad and you are making a whole bunch of them please stop!

Italic: If it wasn't fluff then why did you avoid answering what the purpose of the question really was when we asked you. Your fluff included a soft attempt to throw suspicion towards Swag in #35 as well as a flat out meaningless question in post #59.
Bolded: This is incredibly forced and ungeninue, if you believe we're mafia which you seem to do you would have no issue whatsoever with us putting forward arguments you consider weak.

except it was an excuse to stop posting. you originally said you were done arguing and just left it at that. then you backpedal and say its a time issue, you could have just said that from the start.

This is a massive misrepresentation of what occured, there was no attempt at make up an excuse to stop posting because if that was the case I would have stopped posting.

Having a pretty rough, stressful night outside of this game. Although I still think Ethos is doing everything I say they are doing.

Hopefully you come back tommorow with a fresh set of eyes and an open mind because this is getting ridiculous.

my initial thoughts on Ethos revolved around his bad reasoning on the kanye vote, and i also dont like him attaching it to town reading of para (even tho i think (thought?) para is town)

This again is forced, note the 'bad reasoning on a kayne vote' where he ignores the fact the vote is on him.

So you don't think that scum can get on a wagon they know will flip town?

Also notice that the second is exactly what Ethos is doing right now.

Italic: Another massive fucking misrepresenation of the truth, I don't believe scum would start a wagon that will flip town and then TAKE CREDIT for it.
Bolded: So are you attempting to argue that you believe fighting against a townies lynch is a scum-tell?

#257 claiming that you arent being contradictaroy because youre a hydra isnt a very good excuse. as spyrex pointed out earlier, its your own responsibility to make the hydra work.

You've just seen the word hydra disagreements and attempted to jump to misrepresent again; The 'contradiction' has nothing to with our reads, moreso Slaxx saying he's more confident in our reads than I am.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

oh my god fourteen pages standby please

Ethos I wasn't sure about until I got to page 11ish, then...Preeeeeeeeeeeetty sure Ethos is scum.

Yes, you caught up with all 14 pages of the thread, attained reads and replied in 17 minutes. I completely believe that's what happened and not that you skimmed, looked for a viable mslynch found my reads list and jumped on.

You've called Ythan town and Ythan scum. You've said your reads aren't rock solid yet you speak in absolutes. You've called para a weak town read and then said your town reads are stronger than your scum reads.

1. I don't believe I have ever started that Ythan is scum however I know that Slaxx did previously, we discussed it for quite a while this morning and he's now convinced that scum are attempting to buddy and suck up to him in an attempt to urge him to fuel this push.
2. My town-reads are far stronger than my scum-reads but that doesn't mean my town reads vary in strength individually.

[Ethos]

Untrod, that could perhaps be true, though if it's the case why state frustration in having to catch up with four pages. The reads you produced were EthosScum, MaskScum, Hirakimixedfeelings and Ythantown. I have no disagreement with any of them with the exception of your read on us in which stating disagreement would be pointless.

SpyreX, alright, I'm just going to request this once and once only. Take your fucking head out of your ass and attempt to play this with an open mind. Surely PYP would have showed you that instantly shooting down my thoughts isn't smart at all. With the exception of Ythan we haven't 'ping-ponged' on any of our reads whatsoever and now Slaxx is in agreement with me over Ythantown.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

SpyreX, again, normally I can withold all emotions from this game and play it robotically but when I see someone I believe is town tunnel towards me so blindly I start to get frustrated. Lets see, I replaced into PYP for 24 hours pointed out the strong possibility that two scum were in the 6's and no scum were in the 1's and that creating a plan to get a (1,1) dead was stupid - I was unable to put the last bit together though; that being that Hoopla pushing the tactic was due to her being scum, then progressed to ask for a slight bit of extra time to get my notes in order and was ignored.

Onto something actually productive for this game, what's your thoughts on Para's update post?

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Thank you Knights, finally someone notices how incredibly stupid the argument between us three actually was, it spiralled out of control with the argument going in circles and near nowhere.

SpyreX, in regards to your team murder death squad: Hiraki is leaning town. KKB is scum, you need to re-read what he has said throughout this game badly. KoC is likely town. T-Bone is likely town. SpyreX and Ythan are town. Perhaps read the below:

Also meta arguments are bad and you are making a whole bunch of them

please stop!

This is incredibly forced and ungeninue,

if you believe we're mafia which you seem to do you

would have no issue whatsoever with us putting forward arguments you consider weak.

Yeah,

I don't have a problem with you doing it

and I'm going to keep calling you on meta bullshit.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

He's now at L-1, someone unvote we're not ending this fucking day phase in 3 days.

[Ethos]

He's now at L-1, someone unvote we're not ending this fucking day phase in 3 days.

He's now at L-1, someone unvote we're not ending this fucking day phase in 3 days.

He's now at L-1, someone unvote we're not ending this fucking day phase in 3 days.

He's now at L-1, someone unvote we're not ending this fucking day phase in 3 days.

[Ethos]

The fact that he's not just replacing out of this game but is also doing so in [Redacted] should be a sign that his recent actions are more likely extremely frustrated town rather than flailing scum.

[Ethos]

Hey bud, Unvote first. Also don't leave the site you're a good player, probably right and town, which is why the bandwagon is on you.

[Ethos]

I didn't notice TheMasks unvote when looking at the wagon structure thus my belief that it was L-1 when it was actually L-2. Secondly, you're comparing this to our reads that we produced quite a while ago without even considering the fact our reads have changed, which they have. I'll summarize it for you though: People on that wagon in his town category: Swag, SpyreX, Para, KoC, Ythan. People on that wagon in his null category: Chair. People on that wagon in his scum category: TheMask, Quilford.

This is awesome and if its really going to be no see he wont play the game lets lynch someone else you know damn right. And when this is right we can go ahead and do what we should be doing now tomorrow and then everyone can GASP when he was scum and this was all junk.

Rephrase please.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

I think Oversoul is town too but how do you discern Swag is town?

So I really don't think Oversoul 'claimed' anything. With the 'w00t!' in front of the 'claim' it reads less like "oh I started that wagon I want due credit" and more like "hey I'm a noob and I did something right for once".

Ignores the fact that he earlier stated he had a town-read on Oversoul, doesn't state any reasoning behind it but states disagreement with the reasoning behind our town-read.

I would be surprised if neither Ythan nor Ethos were scum at this point. They're doing an excellent job at eliciting emotional responses from each other and I see no reason for town players to do that.

This reads as scum attempting to pin T v T without stating any reasoning behind it or stating which they believe is mafia.

Cut: Was just going into that.

[Ethos]

1. Uhhhh those first two quotes pretty obviously don't have anything to do with each other in any fashion you're trying to connect them?
2. The second is fah but this is not TvT I could see (probably because he's right but I digress).
3. Of course this is all tech since "Ohh, tsk tsk SpyreX how could you not be prescient and SEE our reads have changed!" is awesome.

1. They do have a lot to do with each other. Quilford stated he has a town-read on Over had only said ISO#0-4. These post nearly all have relation to his vote on Idher and taking responsibility so if he disagrees with us gaining a town-read from that, what does he gain a town-read from?

2. I have a strong town-read on Ythan, so yes it is T v T, regardless though if he believes it was S v T how come he hasn't once attempted to state which of us he believs are scum?

3. I don't expect you to read our minds in regards to our reads but surely you would understand that we would make statements regarding reads that aren't all mentioned in-thread.

[Ethos]

1.) "I think he is town" and "I don't think he 'claimed' anything" have nothing to do with each other in any useful fashion because the former is not affected by the latter in any thought process aside from yours that I know of in this thread.

2.) OHhhhhh you're town well then case solved.

3.) No. This thread is the game. Not interactive notepad or whatever the hell you two are up to. If a normal player were to have this exact scenario play out and THEN go "Ohh see I USED THE POWER OF MY MIND TO CHANGE MY READS" you know damn well they'd get roped.

1. He stated that he believes he's town and then states he doesn't believe he claimed anything meaning he disagrees with the town-tell we had on Over. So what was his town-tell on Over? Oh, he never mentions it while the whole dispute occurs.

2. Our reads are based from our fucking point of view, how fucking hard is that to understand, jesus christ are you attempting to act dense on purpose just to frustrate us here?

3. Lets see what reads of ours 'changed' that weren't mentioned in thread, a KoC town-read oh wait that's mentioned in-thread as well, a Ythan town-read, oh wait that's mentioned in thread. The only read that changed was a Quilford scum-read which I explained in the next fucking post.

[Ethos]

Quilford, I can understand the town-read on Over via the tone of his early posts to a degree however I'm finding it difficult understanding your refrainment from stating that reasoning when the argument about Over came to light. I'll await your reads-list before I respond in regards to the Ythan vs Ethos debate.

SpyreX, it's not a change of universe at all. Prior to that post all of those reads had been mentioned apart from KoC who hadn't posted until then. If you want a particular town-read explained ask otherwise I'm not in the particular mood to go around explaining them all. The statement in regards to the wagon formation was made by Slaxx with the intention of attempting to state that Para shouldn't let it all get to him too much. Essentially it was a plea to not quit playing mafia completly because Para is infact a good player. The intention behind it wasn't saying that the people strongly pushing para are scum as we only had two scum read on the wagon both relatively early on it however I can understand how you may read it as that initally. Honestly, I think what's making this game incredibly aggravating is that you've locked yourself into a mind-set that we're scum without actually taking a step back and reassesing which I urge you to do at some point in the next day or so.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

SpyreX, the 'you're right' bit revolved around his shared suspicion of Kayne with the 'this is why it's happening' involving two of our scum-read being on the wagon though in hindsight sure it's not the reason his wagon is being pushed but that's semantics. I told you to pull your head out of your ass because you're not reconsidering other suspects just tunnelling towards Para and us. You telling us that our thoughts are only from our point of view thus meaningless is proof of this. Do me a favour, read the thread, heck skim it from all I care with the mindset that Para and ourselves are town, then tell me who your leading suspects are.

Idher, can you explain the KoC suspicion as well as stating your read on Kayne.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Your scum reads evan after the fact: TheMask and Quilford. They couldn't get a bandwagon on someone this game thus far if the person they were on said they were scum in thread in bold letters. So either you're saying they're somehow doing it or your town reads are scum because para is a paragon of town and a good player.

Essentially it was a plea to not quit playing mafia completly because Para is infact a good player.

The intention behind it wasn't saying that the people strongly pushing para are scum as we only had two scum read on the wagon both relatively early on it however I can understand how you may read it as that initally.

We're running in circles here, again. Thanks for providing your reads though can you attempt to explain your Kayne town-read because his entire post and vote scream as opportunistic scum attempting to find a reason to jump on a future mslynch. Commenting on the part where he begs us to stop using meta, and then states he doesn't care if we use meta would also be appreciated. Need to have a discussion with Slaxx when he's next online in regards to everything else that has occured recently. Also, welcome Yos.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Yes, I can agree that it was a bit of a misspeak, as I said the sole purpose was to attempt to convince him to stay in the game becuase he is a player that I consider good and have had an enjoyable experience with him in the past.

I disagree about KKB, I believe scum have more incentive to lock the lynch between two town players then to just place another vote on the leading one. His vote forced the attention to be stay between myself and Para whereas if he just voted Para and Para claimed a PR there would be a scramble of votes off Para which could result in going anywhere. The hydra business that you state he called us out on has been elaborated on multiple times, the contradiction he attempted to push was one merely stating that we both have different strengths of reads which is in no way a scum-tell.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

This is a blatant prod-dodge, my statistics final is in three hours and my law final is in twenty four hours. I'll devote the needed time to this game when those end.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Alright, finished one final, one more to go and I can focus on this properly. SpyreX, this is the last time I'm going to respond to this because I'm growing extremely tired of repeating myself: I noticed a similarity in TheMasks play this game to a previous scum-game of his prior to his V/LA and considered it suspect therefore I placed him on my scum list. Incase it isn't obvious my scum-list that early in the game isn't "They are mafia without a doubt in the world" but rather just players that I suspect. I haven't attempted to act offended intentionally, I was legitimatly frustrated by the constant attacks from Ythan and yourself, how you fail to see that is beyond me. Please for one second go back put yourself in our shoes and read how the attack took place, you'll realize where out frustrated stems from. You're exaggerating our intial defence of Para, I stated I had a minor town-read on Para due to that post not that I strongly felt it made him town. I care not if you disagree with my Para-town read at all nor do I care if you have a particular problem with the logic behind the reasoning for it but the fact that you attempt to call my defence of him a scum-tell is something I can not understand. I haven't attempted to use our hydra as a defence or a shield, this point is actually fucking pissing me, both you and Kayne are attempting to push it. I haven't attempted to shift blame away due to us being a hydra but instead attempted to explain our thought process.ought processes in depth.

im not obligated to tell you any of my reads im just going to keep them to myself so i can completely change my opinions at what appears to be the drop of the hat and when you call me at it, god, its in my hydra qt. please keep up. Fuck that. if you were town you would have no issues with being up front about your reads instead of hiding them.

This is a massive misrepresentation, I've stated all of our reads near the second that we both agree on them. This should be highly evident if you actually read our ISO however you seem content to rather ignore that and continue making piss-weak jabs at us.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Alright finished my final exam. Wooooooooo! Catching up with the thread now.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Finally someone hit the nail on the head, the 'don't leave' was because he was one of the saving graces of 00's Band mafia and I will continue to repeat that he isn't a VI at all but rather a player that similarly to us let frustration get the better of him early in the game. Post #520 summarizes the middle section of the day fairly well I'm just struggling to understand how SpyreX and Ythan haven't realized that the argument stemmed from an Oversoul-town-read and then spiraled out of control. I'll be re-reading through this thread in the next few hours in which I should have my reads up by.

As sapor stated though, Empkings replace in post where he attempts to buddy up to Ythan and SpyreX while joining their push towards me reads as incredibly opportunistic and furthers the scum-read I had on Quilford before he replaced out. I'm unsure how the replace out was read as a null-tell at all, it wasn't due to a lack of time as he's joined alternate games but rather excessive pressure starting to be placed on him. For now I'm relatively comfortable with this:

Vote: Empking

[Ethos]

Number of large games quilford is currently playing in (as far as I can tell): 0 And its not like Ethos didn't look around to see if quil was in other games. Summon los ropos.

Number of players in this game is 17. Quilford joining another game, that game has 12 players. He claimed to be posting a reads list in his next post which means he had reads on a decent amount of this room, heck, lets be leniant and say he only had 6 reads, that leaves 10 people that he doesn't have a read on. So instead of working out how to read those 10, he has joined a new game with 11 other players that he doesn't have a read on.

[Ethos]

Honestly, you know what fuck this. I'm putting my foot down, Ythan has spent far too much of this game attempting to antagonise and smear anyone that disagrees with him, he did it with us earlier and is now doing so with Oversoul. I for one will no longer be conversing or replying to his comments because honestly, his opinion is worthless. Slaxx wanted to do this early but I restrained him from doing so saying that players in this room should be good enough to discuss occurances logically, it seems I was wrong and I've apologised to Slaxx for this already.

We are a mason, there are three masons in this game, I'm not going to out the other members however if they wish to claim themselves I have no particular qualms with it.

Yos/Para's slot is town, seriously you need to read the actual frustration that Para showed as well as the lack of care that's occured throughout the majority of today, it's because it's two town wagons and scum don't have to do anything but stand back, throw in a few small mispreps to keep the wagons going and place their vote. Oversoul's noobtown-telling all over the place, Idher and T-Bone are town, both have stood back and have shown signs to look at this objectively while attempting to prevent both lynches from occuring. Ythan is town, but bad town. SpyreX is town that needs to step back and reasses this shit badly because he actually has a brain when he's not tunneling. Leaning town slightly on Chair mainly due to their hydra disagreements, it reads as legitimate though I'll need to read more into them.

I have no solid read on Dramonic, Kunkstar, KoC, Swag or Hiraki anymore, my read has flip-flopped on them all far too much meaning I have some reading into them. Empking/Quilfords slot is scum, read his reactions and content throughout the game, heck even ignore the replacing out and you'll see it. Kaynes scum as well, he's popped in attempted to act suprised that he's being FoS'ed by us while continuing to misrep our actions, he even went as far to say that we haven't posted reads at all. Leaning scum on Untrod and Sapor, though again that's something I need to read back into.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Untrod, I'll have a conversation with Slaxx when he gets back, intially his suggestion was to all instant-claim forcing mafia to night kill us consecutively however I believe that with 3 masons in the game there's likely to be few other strong power-roles therefore I'm unsure if it's optimal all not.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Learn to read, I believe there are FEW strong power roles.

[Ethos]

You attempted to rolefish from us near the very start of the day, of course we're not going to legitimately claim if you ask us if we were masons then.

[Ethos]

The deadline is coming up in roughly five days and the last thing we need is a last ditch attempt to actually start gaining ground on a reasonable lynch. Everyone who hasn't voted Empking need to explain their reluctance in doing so in their next post. Furthermore it's highly evident that the day has revolved around too few players, noticably SpyreX, Ythan, Hiraki, Oversoul, Yosh and ourselves therefore we want everyone to tell us what their thoughts are of the quieter posters in their next post as well.

We can see the merits in revealing my mason partners especially considering the fact that scum are currently able to narrow them down to a select few possible partners to begin with:

Our mason partners are Dramonic and T-Bone

.

Regfan and Slaxx

[Ethos]

Oh wow you're tying yourself to T-Bone on top of it?

Spoiler: Extended Response

Town (From Strongest to Weakest):

T-Bone, Dram, Over, Ythan, Yos, Idher, SpyreX, Kunkstar, Hiraki, Chair.

Null:

Sapor, Swag, KoC.

Scum (From Strongest to Weakest):

Empking, Kanye, Untrod.

Regfan and Slaxx.

[Ethos]

That was Regfan. I havent posted in a week because you piss me off. If it were just me I would have replaced out by now, but Regfan has the amazing virtue of actually being able to handle your mean spirit and stupidity. Its amazing really.

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

You playing poorly is a sign of stupidity on my part.

Yes Ythan, you have won the argument, you are the awesome.

[Ethos]

Don't talk shit if you're just going to bitch your way out of it. And don't play shit if you're going to stay.

This is a distraction. I'm not fucking with you anymore. PM my main after the game if you really wanna discuss this. I just can't handle you, which I admit is more than partially my fault.

[Ethos]

Are you honestly attempting to state that you believed I claimed mason as scum and then outted two of my partners in a claim that's impossible and pointless to continue to pursue? Furthermore, are you honestly attempting to state you believe all of T-Bone, Dramonic, Ethos, Yosh and Oversoul are scum?

[Ethos]

Although I agree that Ythan has tunneled excessively, provided no reasoning behind his shit as fuck reads and continual refrain from admitting he was wrong I don't read him as scum Yos. Perhaps read his playstyle in Hard Boiled mafia and you'll notice a massive similarity between this and that game. Furthermore I don't believe he would continue attempting to push our lynch had be been mafia he would know that doing so would damage his image. His play resembles egotistical, awful town rather than anything else. I'm not understanding the shift towards Yos again at all, as stated the only reasoning put forward behind his lynch is that Para's play was flailing however looking back at it it screams frustrated town rather than anything else.

In summary, Yos vs Ythan is town on town and they both need to step back and realize that. Instead they should be focusing their time noticing the blatant contradictions and opportunistic play that Untrod has shown recently. He attempts to attack Yos for a minor misrep while completely ignoring the misreps that were presented in the case against me and pointed out multiple times, in particular those done by Kanye.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

I am. I'm voting for Empking my strongest scum-read.

[Ethos]

Never have I stated that I would like players to soley focus on you, just that they should take note of your recent actions. Had you read my previous posts I have mentioned multiple, multiple, multiple times that I want to hear everyones opinion and thoughts on Empking along with reasoning.

[Ethos]

I fail to see what you're attempting to portray here. What about the follow can you not understand:

1. I' stated I suspect you Kanye and Empking.
2. I have my vote on Empking my largest suspect.
3. I've asked people to state their opinions on Empking.
4. I ask people to spend time to notice your contradictions and opportunistic play.

[Ethos]

The sheer fact that conversation devolved into debating rhetoric is +2 scum points for UT.

Someone rehash the Yos case please. Because I don't remember one being made. I remember the wagon being shit though

Do I really have to tell you guys that the Yos shit-wagon is being made to distract from the Emp gold-wagon or are we smart enough to figure this out on our own?

[Ethos]

Mastin, concisely as possible (and then some) point out specific things that make Empking town. If possible, please point out individual things as well as connections to other players.

[Ethos]

People on UT wagon, compromise and get on the Empking wagon.

Dramonic, halp please. Emp isnt town.

[Ethos]

unvote
vote UT

Shoot Kanye.

[Ethos]

Hiraki isn't a terrible shot, but I think Swag or Kanye are about 1000x better. Regfan and I plan on getting a reads list out tonight, I am sure everything has changed with Emp-Vig.

[Ethos]

Hey Zepher, opinion on KoC now please.

-Slaxx

[Ethos]

I personally disagree with the Hiraki vig-shot. I understand that some of his actions have been anti-town and he has shown a lack of care to the game but there are much better targets to aim for ie. Kanye. I am also slightly hesitant to continue with the Untrod lynch however given the impending deadline and lack of reasonable alternative I'm going to have to shift my second doubts to the side.

Zepher, I don't understand the refrainment from stating reads at all, sure your reads might change overnight however stating them today allows us to have something to read you based of and gives you a starting spot of where your thoughts on everyone lie, furthermore you should easily be able to explain the change in read from today to tommorow.

Sapor, you've shown a tendancy to refrain from stating any relevant reads or thoughts thus far in the game, since your replacing in you've stated disagreement with a Yos/Ethos lynch while calling Ythanobvtown only to state that you need to re-read Ythan days later with no conclusion noted. Your suspicion of Empking ignores the fact he's claimed Vig and is the complete extent of your 'scumreads' in this game.

Regfan.

[Ethos]

Agreed. A Saporo shot is way better than Hiraki.

[Ethos]

Dramonic - Null leaning scum
Ethos - Probably town (Ythan vs Ethos conflict)
T-Bone - Null

What? Dram and T-Bone are masons with us, have you even read the thread?

[Ethos]

If you caught T-Bones mason claim why was he nul on your list. Masons are a possible role sure but that doesn't mean you don't have to take a stance on whether you believe we're legitimate or not. Now that you know that all three of us are masons our allignment should be directly related, therefore if you strongly believe one of us are town, then we should all be read as town to you.

Regfan.