Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Haylen]

Actually...

unvote, vote: TripMyWire
Gentle FoS: Green Crayons

Serious vote.

Why is this serious?

Vote Incognito

BANDWAGON GO GO!

Bvoigt. SERIOUSLY? NO H? Pretty sure I've consistantly put an h between the g and t.

Note: V/LA most weekends. I also went for a job interview yesterday and if I get it I'll be the carer of a young disabled teen for the next year :3

[Haylen]

I claim to have a serious vote on someone and you join a wagon on me instead of the person I'm serious voting? Odd.

Why would you expect me to follow an unexplained vote? Fact is, it you said it was a serious vote and didn't give any reasons: I find it scummy when people do that. I could have just left it and RVS'd OR I could have joined a nice bandwagon to pressure you.

[Haylen]

Nice catch on camn though.

FoS camn

Might aswell admit that I've not seen the movie either.

Townish read on Crayons.
BM is giving me tingly feelings, will keep an eye on that.
Definate scum read on Ipie (IIoA)

Post more tomorrow, it's my bedtime. Also, I pray to Loki that none of you use text language this game. At all. I will scream. Don't ask.

[Haylen]

I stated reasons. "BANDWAGON GO GO" is clearly an implied reason
If that's what you're getting at, there's your response. If I'm completely missing the point, use other words. Please. <-- manners.

[Haylen]

I'm going to try and get my head round this tomorrow. The first bit's right though!

[Haylen]

Anyway, TripMyWire was on around the same time I was earlier this morning and didn't post in the thread despite the fact that the mod sent PMs to everyone saying that the game had started. I thought it was a good choice for a vote as a result.

But in my eyes that means nothing, there are any number of reasons why a person wouldn't post. But i think I'm deviating from the point because you clearly did explain yourself.

Unvote. Vote camn

I FoS'd camn earlier, now I'm removing my vote from Incog, I thought it would be better placed there.

[Haylen]

@ Incog - your meta doesn't stand anymore. I've become increasingly paranoid in games to the point of refusing to believe power roles aren't scum pretending to be power roles and cop results because YOU NEVER KNOW WHO'S TRYING TO SCREW YOU OVER.

Hmm, if Incognito knows camn's meta to that extent, then he should have known about camn's change in attitude. Me being me and generally in the rush due to the lateness at which I was posting read the evidence provided I Incog but didn't search beyond that. Lesson learnt: look past the evidence provided because people can leave stuff out intentionally and things may not be as the painter portrays it. Sorry camn!

Unvote

I a wait Incog's reply before voting.

You should know my playstyle by now; when I see something that I notice as being off, I prod and probe it to try and find out what's going on.

That doesn't make sense, because if you were probing hard enough, you would have looked into camn's current meta to establish a full picture. Since camn has explained her new meta, I'm not quite sure why your vote is still on her.


@ Perigrin - what makes the meta case so well presented? Are you actually going to post your reasons for it or just sheep Incog?

Note: Remember to request something later

@ Magua - Surely you knew that making a post suggesting a day kill would not be taken as a joke and would distract from genuine discussion? Also, how is your Iso 6 useful if it doesn't contain any explanations as to WHY people's posting is good or bad?

~ I've witnessed BM intentionally lurk as scum, by the way.

Meh read on Lain. Town on Yos ~ He would know better than to create a connection between himself and another player (camn) so early in the game if he was scum. It wouldn't make sense if they were scum together. If Yos was scum, he would be hoping that he himself would be lynched first in order for the town to pick up on this connection so they can mislynch camn - however, I would predict that camn would get lynched before Yos which would make the connection useless and he'd possibly get accused of buddying. Town read on Crayons too (speaking of which, why GREEN crayons? Why not Blue or red or brown or purple? )

Anyone notice how Bvoigt has followed all of Incognito's suspicions and all of his starting votes (with the exception of the Crayons vote)?

Funnily enough, MPR has been on irc, so he has actually been around just not in this thread.

This explanation gives me a bad gut feeling. Why do you need to mention that you FoS'ed her earlier?

I put that there as an explanation for voting camn, why do you assume that it's ok to vote for people with no reasons attached?

[Haylen]

I lack the ability to get emotionally involved in games as any alignment anymore too. I've messed up in loads of games recently and this game is my only recent game that I've displayed some sort of enthusiam rather than complete apathy. It's been since I messed up really badly in a scum game and claimed a role that was impossible for not only the setup but that's been banned in the normal queue. Plus the ass kickings. Kind of affected my will. Big mess ups effect people differently, this one can be proven by looking at my recent games.

Incog...you really don't know Pine ._.

How can it look like I'm making stuff up as I go along when I'm giving reasons and evidence for what I say?

Further, why would I take all this time and energy to look into current meta when I'm not even pushing for camn's lynch at this point? That'd be dumb.

When somebody votes for another person, I am generally under the impression that they want to lynch them or pressure them. Either way, they should know the full circumstances of what is being said before they do.

I'm actually liking bvoigt so far; the thing he pointed out in his post 100 about Haylen was something I was thinking as well along with some of the "qualifier" stuff he pointed out recently about Trip too.

You think he's town because he's agreeing with you? From here it looks like he's buddying you and I find it interesting that you can't see that. Take a look at both of your voting patterns too.

FoS Bvoigt

I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't scum lurking, and just a case of mafia being open in the background.

Can you explain this please? I get the part up to the comma but not the rest.

Then, since you and camn explained yourself well, I voted Haylen, but the reasons were not the same as Incognito's.

See this is why I find it scummy when people don't explain their votes. It means they can't avoid being called out on buddying or sheeping which is what Bvoigt has done here. He's failed to explain why he voted me in an earlier post, has been called out for sheeping everything Incog says and can now say that his reasons were completely different and make them up.

BM, actually thoughts on everything that's happened until now, please? I notice you managed to avoid that whilst you were catching up.

Can you restate bolded or explain to a less degree of double negatives or something? Because I can't make sense of it. I've attempted while both sober and inebriated. Please help a brother out.

I'm basically saying that I never fully believe power role claims or claimed cop results because there's always something, somewhere that could make it false ie godfather, scum fakeclaim ect.

On the 'convulated' thing you quoted. I was trying to explain things from various yos-pov's and concluded that from a scum point of view, what he was doing didn't make sense. Scum wouldn't want to connect with their partner because it's likely to backfire later in the game when everyone starts looking for relationships, Yos has played enough games to know that. If you want a simple explanation: Yos is ancient, ancient people are wise and know what not to do.

I should sleep.

[Haylen]

@ Crayon's - I was given an example of how my meta had changed and what everyone can pretty much expect from me in this game.

I'll be looking at Peregrine soon to establish a better read on him. I'm liking BM at the current time.

You should know my playstyle by now; when I see something that I notice as being off, I prod and probe it to try and find out what's going on.

Further, why would I take all this time and energy to look into current meta when I'm not even pushing for camn's lynch at this point? That'd be dumb.

I take note of the backtracking here. Researching current meta in a meta argument seems to be quite important in the 'prodding and probing' of things.

This still doesn't make any sense. At this point you believe camn is town. You're trying to explain things from a Yos POV, but you're doing it as if camn is scum.

I wrote what I did, it makes perfect sense to me but I can't explain it any simpler. I'll try again though, I was trying to explain that it you couldn't have a scum camn/ scum Yos team because the nature of the connection there wouldn't make sense. I was also taking buddying ect into account aswell and that it didn't make sense from that point of view either.

Bvoigt voted me because I explained my vote for camn? ...yeeeeees...

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!

I really hope you don't actually expect this to happen lol.

MehPlusRawr needs to get a move on.
I'm leaving camn alone for now.
Will re-read the Yos-hate from BM if I have time today, If not it will come in the evening tomorrow. Yos/Crayon's interaction is a must read too!

not that she's a bad town player, but she's won, what, 3 games as SK in a row or something?

6 out of 7 games as SK, for the record. NOT THAT I'M KEEPING COUNT! (yes I am, it boosts my moral when I mess up -_-)

[Haylen]

With regards to Peregrin, I actually doubt scum would try to pull off that level of a lie with players whom have been around on site as we have. I would like Peregrin to do some homework and review every game on this site In one of my most recent games, I bussed my scumbuddy on Day One and went on to win, because people didn't think it would happen. I think Peregrin is just misguided information and I would love to know who his IC was.

Whoa.. Yos-lynch Day 1?
I don't know if I can cope with that.
It's like trying to kill God or the Devil or something to me. I gotta work up my courage.

Not a good enough reason. If you find someone scummy, they should be lynched regardless of who they are.

I would be interested in knowing why Crayons would not mind a hayl lynch - I might have missed it in the walls if it's already been said.

@ ML - You think I don't know my play is inefficient? <_<

More tomorrow. Did I forget to mention I'm V/LA at weekends?

[Haylen]

It means I don't have enough info at the present time to make a full conclusion as to how I feel about camn's alignment. I have a kinda leaning town on her but I'm keeping my eye on her just in case. Which probably makes no sense to anybody else.

MPR replacing out is a null tell. What makes you think it's a scumtell?

Peregrine needs to read this game. Myself and Battle Mage bussed our scumbuddy on Day One and got him lynched. I bussed BM later on in the game and went on the take the win. That game had me on the edge of my seat.

If that's the case then I disagree with you; the Haylen that I know would be doing all kinds of silly stuff on the first few pages like claiming to be an octupusduckgoosehenchicken with laser beams shooting out of its ass and NOT producing actual reads like she did

The claiming stupid things and general silliness was a form of scumhunting. I explained this in the scum quicktopic for ladies mafia and camn said something that made me think - yeh, it's not very good if the info gained from it isn't useful at that time. That and I'm half losing the will <("<)

Pine

* I agree that his "scumslip" looked a bit suspicious. Other people are suggesting it's a slip, however, that's not the reason I find it suspicious. I find it suspicious because the way in which Pine made phrased that sentence looked very cautious, like he was very aware that he couldn't say anything that would arouse suspicion without coming under scrutiny.

Scum Motivation

Scum, I would say, are much more cautious than town. In this circumstance, Pine looked like he was being very careful as to not confirm camn as town or scum in his response to her suggestion of a mass name claim.

Town Motivation

Any townie should have the balls to put down a well reasoned vote, if the player being voted flips town, then a townie shouldn't worry about trying to convince the rest of the town that they themselves are town. And thus it is the same case for writing what you want to say without fearing a backlash because they should trust the town to be able to tell if their responses are genuine if they do happen to come under scrutiny for what they have said. However, some of the newer players haven't quite gotten that into their heads yet.

Conclusion:

I am leaning towards this being of scum motivation because it just seems so much more likely than Pine not realising he can say what he likes as town as long as he can back it up.

Note for the stupid

Personal assaults? Didn't you call personal assault on someone else earlier?

Next time you play as Town, don't do something that staggeringly anti-Town, and people like me won't get an immediate scumread on you.

It's interesting that you would think this. I automatically thought that the suggestion of mass name claiming was an attempt at generating discussion.

Scum Motivation

Scum would automatically jump on something that somebody does and call it scummy without thinking of the actual motivations behind the original action because it allows them to look like they're analysing the game when in fact they are not.

Town Motivation

General misguidedness. Inability to analyse properly.

Conclusion:

Points more towards scum motivated to me because Pine has said at least once this game that he's a great player. A great player wouldn't make a mistake like this. But to me, it does look like he had jumped on camn rather than a newbie mistake.

Might have said this before, there's a difference between anti-town and scummy. It's beyond me why Pine would suggest otherwise. These are the definitions.

Pro-town - Helping the town do their shiz and catch scum.
Null - Unable to produce a proper read of a person.
Anti-town - Doing something that is not necessarily scum motivated but does not help the scum.
Scum - Helping the scum do their shiz and kill off the town.
Anti-game - Not being interested in the game ie lurking and then getting replaced, spamming ect.

Perhaps Pine is pushing for a lynch on someone he doesn't truly find scummy and is trying to cover it up with mis-definitions.

For the last fucking time, this one with no frills or equivocation:

Swearing in that fashion.

Scum Motivation

Pressure. When scum is under serious pressure, they tend to buckle and make statements such as this. Evidence for this could be

the fact that the only thing Pine has done for the last 90% of the game is defend himself.

Take special note of this, please.

Town Motivation

Occassionally, town can get so frustrated that they lose their usual cool exteriors and start shouting their mouths off.

Conclusion:

Hmm, I could buy town like because at that time in the game, Pine only had 2 votes. However, he could be someone that caves into pressure easily. I'm going to keep an eye on this and try to draw a logical conclusion later. Although, reading the rest of Pine's also, I could conclude that it's scum motivated because he just carried on with the bad attitude.

Overall Conclusion of Pine:

Scummy. May be happy with his lynch. Want to analyse others before making a decision though.

Peregrin

Starting to feel a little pulled out of RVS. Most well-presented meta case based on other games I've seen in a while.

Aaaand, he jumped on the meta argument without thinking that my meta had changed since then. It's the same point I made just now about people not thinking before they decide on something like this. I bet you anything that Peregrin didn't go and look at my most recent games and I don't get why neither him nor Incog asked about my change in chance on believing everything another player says.

Looks scum motivated.

@Mage- Camn is currently holding a place as "neither town nor scummy" in my list, but I do like the activity level, as it gives more info. And this tends to lean town to me (depending on what is said, and how it's said also, of course).

Classic case of fence sitting.

Scum Motivation

Scum like to fence sit because it allows them to go through an entire game looking as though they are reading the thread, scum hunting and providing content when in fact they are not. It allows them to avoid arousing suspicion on themselves. I find that this is especially the case when the scum in question is attempting to give a read on his scumbuddy.

Town Motivation

Might be telling the truth.

Conclusion:

I find this scum motivated because the only full on reason he gives for finding camn town or scum is her activity level. This doesn't sit well with me. You can't conclude your read on someone based on how often they're posting. For example, currently, I am trying to publish a book, hence my lower activity levels, I would be royally pissed if someone decided I was scum because of that.

@Battle- Today, right now, I would be against a lynching of me, Green Crayons, Incog, or Haylen.

Inconsistancy. He says that he would be against a lynch of me and yet at the time he says this, he is voting for me.

Scum Motivation

If I happened to be lynched, it would allow him to say that he didn't really suspect me even though he was voting me and on pseudo-band wagon. If done correctly, it could get him out of trouble big time in pseudo-tomorrow.

Town motivation

He might have genuinely forgotten to unvote me.

Conclusion:

Given that there was only three days between his voting me and his post saying he didn't want me lynched, I think the chances of it being town motivated are very small.

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!

I believe I gave my opinion on this before, but I'll do it again.

Scum Motivation

Scum would be likely to say this if they had plans for bussing their partners. I've seen it before, people lead lynches on their partners on day one and then on day two and then when they read lylo, they don't get lynched because they helped lynch the other scum and people thought it was pro-town. The fact that he is also making a big song and dance of people not bussing intentionally on Day One pings my scumdar excessively.

Town Motivation

I can't think of any.

Conclusion:

Would at this stage be happy with a Peregrine lynch too.

I'll do the rest in a bit. As people know, posting content is very painful for me but it does make me enjoy games more and feel more confident

Current Reads based on these analysis

MehPlusRawr -

Null

Pine -

Scummy

PeregrineV

Scummy

Green Crayons
bvoigt
Magua
Incognito
camn
Battle Mage
Medicated Lain
TripMyWire
Yosarian2

[Haylen]

I would be unhappy with a lynch right now, and it surprises me that BM would be considering we have barely heard from Fugitive yet (Hi Fugitive!) and we've got over a week until deadline

[Haylen]

It was done intentionally by camn, though, she just didn't discuss it with Acronach prior to bussing him. Like BM and I didn't when we bussed Super Smashbro Something in that game I linked to.

[Haylen]

I'm here, I know the thread is open. Haven't slept properly since Thursday, lived off energy dribks. Imma sleep. Nipah! ~x

[Haylen]

My apologies guys, I've but ears deep in drama the past few days but at least I've passed the first year of Uni! Anywho, I am getting to the analysises, but my mind is currently bamboozled with trying to organise everything and prioritise. The second installment will definately come though, if I leave you hanging, you can hang me.

I'm not surprised that BM flipped scum, if I'm honest, he was giving me strange vibes as I mentioned plus I found his play really weird which I should have mentioned earlier but I got wrapped up in doing my reads on Pere and Pine. Peregrin flipped town, this doesn't give me much faith in my own reads <_<

Anyone else think the attacking of Incog might have been bussing?

[Haylen]

Posting actual content takes a lot out of me, and Student Finance England are being dickholes. I don't stay hidden online because I know at least one person will comment on it in game and it makes me lol and frustrates that person. What's interesting though is that you haven't accused me outright of active lurking, merely danced around it a bit. Why is this?

I wouldn't call the MPR slot scummy just because MPR didn't post anything. It would have been scummy if he was posting every three days to avoid replacement, but he didn't, he just flaked there are any number of reasons a player would do that. I find it scummy that you're instantly suggesting that that situation would make another player scummy, Yos, you should know better. No info from a slot isn't scummy, it's null.

Why is camn looking shady today, Incog?

Yos, are you taking into account that both Incog and BM are experienced scum players and would know what we would consider to be bussing/town interactions?

Been paying attention, just not had comments come to me. I'll find some time to read through and update.

Huh? Seriously?

What do people think of the Magua kill?

@ Fugitive on Incog's inconsistancies (I'd read that as fense sitting personally but meh) - I'm reading what your saying there as quite a big load of reaching.

Not feeling the Pine-hate; I think he's likely town. He's being pretty silly right now but town. <-- Wait and observe to see if his opinion changes.

Sadly, Haylen could possibly be town too based on interactions with BM, but I want to see her finish that analysis. <-- Wait and observe again.

camn looks the shadiest to me of the people who were on the PeregrineV-town wagon. <-- Ask WHY she's the shadiest.

Don't automatically put things down as inconsistancies/fence sitting. Good things come to those who wait and question others. *nods*

I notice a distinct lack of reasoning from Bvoigt, again. See my previous posts on why this irritates me/why I find it scummy.

[Haylen]

I'm in the middle of making a post. You broke my focus :C

[Haylen]

I'm here. I'm tired but I'm here. Land Lady putting pressure on us, friends putting pressure, everyone is effing pressuring me. Have I accidentally fallen on one of the car pressure pumps my work sells and the hose sticking out of my body somewhere? <-- Rhetorical by the way.

For the record, I'm in the middle of another few analysis and keep getting distracted.

alright, I'm here, but not very strongly tonight. My vote is doing nothing, as it stands. unvote, vote: camn scum tactics anyone?

And the reason for this vote is?

It would make sense that at least one scum was in the list of people BM would lynch. Scum like to tell the truth as much as possible without directly outing themselves or their partners. I do think 'Why Magua' for a scum kill though :/

I need to look at BM/Yos/Incog interactions for myself.

Last time I checked, Magua wasn't in camn's grudgekill wiki list.

[Haylen]

Pfft. Allergies. And Happy Hate the British Day for yesterday! I celebrated it.

MehPlusRawr/Fugitive

Null read from MehPlusRawr due to the fact that he replaced out having said nothing, if he hadn't replaced out but continued prod avoiding that would have been something I'd have found suspicious.

Fugitive

Fencesitting and opportunistic scum if I've ever seen it.

Lack of reasoning or evidence for read.

Scum Motivation

Scum would fail to provide reasoning for their reads due to the fact that they are effectively faking them. It allows them to go along with somebody elses' view and hop on a bandwagon while looking as though they are providing substancial content.

Town Motivation

May genuinely be providing content but not being bothered to post evidence to back it up.

Conclusion

At this point, it could go either way. It's something I obviously find quite suspicious, though.

I've given my opinion on his second post.

Iso 5 looks very much like reaching to me. Fugitive goes on about it being scummy that somebody has come up with a random scum team. It's not scummy trying to find pairs of people, it is however, scummy to not back up your reasons for why they are a scum team.

I notice pretty much a lack of anything from Fugitive with doesn't enable me to do the same town vs scum motivation thing with his posts and I'm at a bit of a loss of how to approach this.

To be continued...

In other news, I don't trust ML.

[Haylen]

You ever request that something later and did anything ever come of it?

No, will do now though. Someone do a vote count analysis of Bvoigt, please. I can't do them properly

Good to see you, Thor. This game has done a really piss-poor job of keeping my attention, and you're always good for keeping me engaged.

The time you spent making this post could have been spent writing a proper response to it.

i think Haylen (which appals me) look pretty town right now.

Why does it appal you?



Gimme til tomorrow guys and you'll have massive loads of content, I'm V/LA at the weekend usually anyway but I'm doing the night shift from 9-45 until 6-15 tonight and the time I would have spent making posts today is instead being spent sleeping in preparation. Night night!

[Haylen]

Hi, this is Hayl, I did 2 night shifts in a row, I am currently a moody cow due to lack of sleep. Deal with it.

The first part is me asking you to explain how I've made my slot scummy - no one else seemed to agree with you so you probably want to get it out in the open before I NK you.

WOAH! What do ya mean by this?

I would currently be inclined to go with an Incog lynch from what i remember of his play yesterday and today, however, I want to make sure Im right and will be making his analysis my top priority before deadline. I would have expected him to push harder on any of the people who voted. I'm not taking into account the fact that BM mentioned him in his 3 people.

I am also not trusting Thor, though.

Incognito's opening double vote shenanigans suggest inside track knowledge.

Wasn't a night start. Why would you vote someone whom you thought was a tracker, anyway?

Haylen can be scum - her weak follow Incog play while appeasing and yet not directly addressing

Yes, I did. I explained that into the ground, you can't get more direct than that.

It appalls me because, having seen your play as town during this "slump" of yours (sorry - I don't think I ever saw you during a peak) it concerns me I'm getting a town read off of you because either;
1. You're going to be terrible to tke into late game for town.

My play gets better, the further into a game I get, it allows me to focus on less people hence why I was replacing into games for a bit. It served a purpose, I wanted to see if you were just sending jibes out instead of actually forming opinions.

Am I completely missing the point about 'recent stuff' I was asked to comment on? Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Aaaaand laptop running out of battery. Seeya tomorrow when more awake!

[Haylen]

@ Thor - I need to say this now because otherwise it's going to be effecting me all game. My latest interactions with you on site have shown me you're being a bit of an arrogant twit. Tone it down, or I swear to the gods I will explode and it wont be pretty. I don't like arrogance, it's my least desirable trait in a person and most likely to make me angry at them.

Mod: I understand the need for finality, but is it possible to move the deadline back until Sunday (or some other time)? For this week each weekday I only have a few hours a night at home which doesn't allow me to devote the proper amount of time and energy for this game -- so at least a single weekend breather day would be nice. I feel like others may be in a similar position as me (Haylen, Pine come to mind based on their recent posts).

I second this, please!

I'm seeing town on Crayons right now. Say Incog or Trip were mislynches, they're both so close to being lynched right now that scum wouldn't want the deadline to be pushed back.

I would support an Incog or a Bvoigt lynch today. I want to see more of camn, although I do not like her early claim and then refusing to full claim. I'm not really sure how I feel about Yos, right now, could lean either way really.

I'm now especially leery of the two people who haven't really said jackshit all Day, but who suddenly begin chiming in saying they're ok lynching me just before the deadline hits

Has me wanting to lynch you yesterday completely slipped your mind?

I'm NOT willing to vote Trip until I've caught up properly and did an iso of him ect.

Vote Bvoigt

Prod dodge? Not even an attempt at being useful?

[Haylen]

I don't get why it's taking you so long.

I am ill, I have a virus. Plus working overtime at work on nights for extra cash. I am doing my best with the situation I have been put into. Luckily, it wont last for too long, if I wasn't sure of that I would replace out.

You've been keeping us waiting and waiting and waiting for you to produce this brilliant insight about the whole entire game that you were supposed to produce pages ago, and you vote bvoigt for a single prod dodge post?

Whatever. You don't need to remind me what I have and haven't said, at least I'm sat here trying to do it. Note, I asked for an extension, so it's hardly delibrate.

And claim that you've been wanting to lynch me for a long while now? Hahaha.

Clearly you need reminding though. Does repeatedly attacking you not infer that I would be happy with your lynch? Also, I've decided I want Bvoigt lynched before you, here's why.

Bvoigt

Ok, in Bvoigt's first iso post, he follows Incognito with his TripMyWire vote.

#1

Scum Motivation

Some scum like to follow other peoples founds and their opinions in order to a) coast in the game b) gain a connection with that player - particularly if the player being followed is more experienced. They hope that the person being followed will be lynched first.

Town Motivation

Genuinely believing exactly the same as what Incog does.

Conclusion:

More likely scum motivated because of the amount of times Bvoigt does this, especially considering he seems to find Trip's explanation reasonable and yet still does unvote Trip until Incognito starts voting for camn.

This can also be said to be inconsistent with bvoigt's voting pattern, as he is still voting for Trip despite finding his explanation for not posting to be okay.

Scum Motivation

Scum's voting patterns tend to be inconsistent with their beliefs because they can't exactly say 'oh this person is scum' because they know who the scum team are, so they get confused sometimes.

Town Motivation

Slip of the mind.

Conclusion:

Considering he didn't notice the issue and acknowledge it, I'm going to go with scum motivated.

He then goes onto vote for camn without giving any indication as to why, but it is another follow of Incog's votes as I have discussed above. I'd like to add that during Day One, scum are more likely to vote people without any explanation than town are because they need to place a vote but they don't want to seem like they are sheeping others. It's also easier to get away with stuff like that earlier in the game than it is to later on in the game.

The amount of Vote hopping Bvoigt has gotten away with in his first few posts is outstanding, by the way. What is interesting is that as soon as camn points out that he's following Incog's opinions and votes with no original content, he changes tone and votes for Pine based on a weaker argument than he had for his vote prior to Pine.

"Anti-town" is clearly different from "scummy." You obviously don't think the suggestion is a good idea, but what about it makes camn more likely to be scum? You said yourself she's made the suggestion as town.

Weak argument. Four pages into the game and anti-town is pretty much all you have to go on. Scummy stuff would be a miracle at that stage in the game.

Scum Motivation

Scum arguments tend to be weak arguments because they don't really believe what they're saying. It can also occur when they're voting for they're scum buddy and pretending to push a lynch on them. If Bvoigt ever flips scum, look into that possibility. Wanting to create a case on somebody who was entirely separate from Incognito's thoughts.

Town Motivation

I can't really think of a town motivation for this. So the conclusion should be obvious.

It's not "no reasons" when you've outlined them in previous posts...I find it scummy that you were concerned enough with the appearance of the vote to make sure we knew it wasn't just sheeping

Another weak argument.

I've mentioned why it's bad to not give reasons for voting before. And the hypocrisy is that his vote on me was based on me explaining my vote.

Wait a second. Peregrine has been voting Haylen almost the entire game (despite admitting that the case on her is "very weak," and saying the vote was for "discussion's sake"). Sounds like a contradiction to me. Plus, a quick ISO reveals that he's hardly done any scumhunting.

This is town like posting. However, I do get the feeling that once he found he couldn't get myself or Pine (possibly) mislynched, he decided to go and try and get somebody else mislynched too - whom there was a better case for.

He pretty much tunnels on Peregrine and Trip for the rest of the day, practically ignoring anything else.

Not liking looking for scumteams so early in the game in Iso 30.

I think Yos, GC, and Incognito are town because they either attacked or were attacked heavily by Battle Mage.

Heard of bussing? Scum like doing that on Day One. Says particular actions weren't bussing, what particular actions?

I am noticing from Bvoigt that he likes to say things, and make decisions, but he doesn't like to elaborate on them, which is scummy because it allows him to look like he is scumhunting but when asked to defend himself or explain himself, he can't. OH HEY, he did it when asked for it, but most of that post was based of what other people had already said.

In BM's ISO #6, he called Medicated Lain a mislynch, and I think it was a legitimate slip.

Don't fall into traps like these. That's too blatant to be a scumslip. It reminds me of the most recent newbie game I won as scum pretty much because my scumbuddy refered to his scumbuddy as a 'he' and I had made it pretty clear I'm female. Had he not done that, I'd have been investigated. So don't take things at face value, think about what you're actually seeing first.

Iso post 34. Suggests that Fugitive's comment was fence sitting. That's a load of rubbish. 'I still don't like it' is clearly a decision on his read, not fence sitting.

Can't remember what chainsawing is, gimme a hint?

Prod dodge with lack of content = no.

Conclusion:

And that is why I am currently voting for Bvoigt. His play has been off to me all game and I've voiced suspicions on him more than once. The above is my full case on him.

@ Thor - Nobody's replacing out. I'm probably just pissy because I'm ill and my hearts been torn to shreds, put in a blender, nuked and put back in again, plus because I currently think I'm a shit IC (despite being called a genius in the last game I did) and seeing anyone flaunting their ICness is like a slap in the face. But I don't want to discuss it mid-game, so don't comment please.

Request deadline extention, pleeeeeeeeeeeease. Most people seem to have been unable to post due to July 4th or some other reason like me. Pleeeeeeease.

[Haylen]

A) You're failing to address your voting/opinions inconsistancy. Delibrately miss that?
B) R.E your weak vote on Pine. Voting somebody based purely on semanics when you have a 'strong meta case' against someone. Hmm. Clearly one of those is stronger than the other, they were both weak but semanics is generally a last resort for scumhunting especially when it's over someone voting someone for being

anti-town

4

pages

into the game, seriously? That's the best you can do at that stage in the game except under really weird circumstance.

C) I'm quite sure I was refering to specific posts when I said about defending and explaining, pretty sure that one wasn't one of them. I meant in general.

[Haylen]

I fucked up and was busy too, but I'm not apologising. I

know

Bvoigt is a better lynch than any of the others. Seriously, people, go back and read him and his votes ect. Or at least read my case on him!

Why does Pine want to vote for Incog over Trip or Bvoigt?

I really don't get this Trip thing, and yes I have been reading the thread. Although the opportunism in voting for the other major wagon yesterday just as the day begins is prety obvious.

I don't hammer people when I'm convinced another person is scum. Hence my lack of hammer yesterday

Hate Pine, Haylen, and Medicated Lian...also hate Green Crayons but he is pardoned due to death.

[Haylen]

Perhaps so, Yos, but if I had voted Trip yesterday and hadn't been killed during the night, I would have been attacked for participating in a lynch that I don't believe in. Which could have potentially lost the town 3 townies if Trip isn't scum. No, I didn't want a no lynch, but when I'm feeling so strongly about my case on Bgvoit, I'm not going to change my vote either.

I'm going to believe Incog on the not being online thing as I don't have any reason not to. Interesting that camn is pushing for it so hard though, I don't like that.

More tomorrow, I'm late for work.

[Haylen]

I was going to comment on Bvoigt disappearing, then noticed he's V/LA. Either way, I didn't notice I wasn't voting him

Vote Bgvoit

. I will take a look at camn and Incog to see if I would prefer one of those lynches (but I doubt it).

Not a load of stuff happening, I think I'll do a nice re-read over the weekend to refresh my mind since deadline isn't anytime soon.

[Haylen]

^ I forgot to add Trips name up there too.

[Haylen]

Night shifts, camn, night shifts Also, not gonna lie, a me-wagon probably would make me more active. That's a null tell though. <-- I love being bandwagonned. It makes me feel at home in a game :p I will really, genuinely try to be more active though.

*shrugs* I stand by my opinions. Don't do something you don't believe in.

ML, what is you actual case? I'm seeing nothing, by the looks of it you're voting me for voting for Bvoigt, which if I'm not mistaking is a chainsaw.

I'll post some more in roughly 8hrs 30mins time. Don't expect it to make as much sense as my usual posts though, it'll be 6.30am.

[Haylen]

Hey Thor, if he's scum and I'm scum with him, why would I prevent his lynch and refuse to back down from somebody else when bussing is optimum play? It was pretty obvious that he would be lynched before me and that if he's scum I would come under fire and be lynched for 'preventing' his lynch. Think about your theories before you post them.

[Haylen]

Oh right! I thought you were insinuating that we must be a team because I inadvertently formed a connection with him when refusing to participate in his lynching. (To be honest, I'm pretty sure I was sleeping when deadline hit anyway. Speaking of deadlines, in this game I've noticed you have the tendancy to rush lynches well before a deadline is near. <-- This one for example.

[Haylen]

I have a migraine. Give me until tomorrow, please. <3

[Haylen]

I change my mind by the way. Incog is town. This is probably going to sound weak but I've remembered that every time I've thought him to be scum he's actually town and every I think he's town, he's actually scum. Point is, I always think he's scum...except that one time when I thought he was town.

We've never played together, Xofelf :p In what way does my wording make you think I'm scum? (I'm noting the lack of evidence provided.)

The thing i'm confused about is this: camn's breadcrumbing was so obvious that even I got it (seriously, I've played games with Andrius and noticed none of his crumbs) to be fair, I thought she might be cop but that's beyond the point. Why is camn still alive? Why didn't the mafia kill her?

Bare in mind, Thor, that I was pretty inactive for most of Day One and Two.

Haylen is never voting anyone - ever. (trend continuing in what parts of Day 2 I've done) this is sad sack,

Why exaggerate? I have voted for Incog and Bvoigt.

Not believing Bvoigt's claim for a minute. Little bit of doubt there though. Mafia could have a roleblocker? I've know nothing about the film though so I don't really who it could be. I do need to say though that if I am wrong and Bvoigt really is town, then scum must have some pretty badass power roles...or a detrimental PR. I CAN'T BELIEVE ALL THESE POWER ROLE CLAIMS. ARGH. Screw you mod. One of you. One of you is lying, maybe both of you.

Why did camn and Bvoight claim, anyway? I'm not getting that?

Bed time.

[Haylen]

I'm Vanilla. I don't like being vanilla, I try to stay active but that often wanes -_- Why are people automatically assuming PR claims are true?

[Haylen]

why is bvoigt still alive? I have known he was power since night one, and have done my best to keep him alive during the day. If I were scum, he could easily have been killed at night.

Are you denying that there are some scum roles that cannot be targetted? Why volunteer such WIFOMy information.

Never trust a power role claim. I have gotten away with so much crap because of them. I'm not believe anything until I see a flip.

[Haylen]

Nobody else was claiming names.

^ Opportunistic vote noted.

I'm Marni Wallace.

[Haylen]

Personally, I think we should lynch xofelf tonight since it seems either me or her and then camn can watch me. Then when there is a kill, she can confirm that I didn't do it.

[Haylen]

I don't fakeclaim as town. It goes against my win-con. I also always get tracker and watcher mixed up -_- Oh! The lynch would clear me because I'd be jailkeeped during the night thereby blocking the 'none' I send into mods as Nilly >.<

@Haylen: Marni, really? Did you just pull that character name out of a hat? Thor's right, the odds of Marni and Shiloh both being in a game are unlikely.

No, the mod pulled it out of random.org. I know nothing about the film, haven't researched it due to busi-ness and thus don't get why Marni and Shiloh being in the game would be unlikely.

[Haylen]

Why would you speedlynch somebody tomorrow, when you think they would get mislynched (and are therefore town) today? That doesn't sit well with me. I think camn is a little bit too excited at the prospect of lynching myself and xofelf then offing you the next day interesting to note that she doesn't expect the investigative role to be killed during the night since the jailkeeper wont be protecting her. Incog's just blatantly ran away which is optimum play for scum during late game (according to Vi). And Bvoigt isn't being much use either. You're all giving me scum vibes in some way or form so i'm not sure who. My first instinct would be to lynch camn on the 3rd day if we lynch Xofelf today, me tomorrow and her the next. As long as town can pull this out of the bag, I don't care if I'm dead.

Just so you know, when you jailkeep me, the mafia/SK left (if xofelf is scum) wont shoot in order to get a mislynch on me tomorrow. I'm gathering this is why you're going to speedlynch me and have already decided on it. You didn't think that idea through, it's quite anti-town.

Yeh, Marni's dead. I appear in pictures or something. I'm going to presume that the film has that whole funky moving picture thing like in Harry Potter.

[Haylen]

Is it neighbours or masons that are confirmed to each other?

[Haylen]

Ok.

Vote Xofelf

JAILKEEP ME, dude!

/inb4scumnokillgambit.

[Haylen]

Well it's not me. Bvoigt said he was going to block me last night thus I am clear but obviously it's impossible that he actually did that since there was two kills last night meaning he had to have done one of them while claiming to have been blocking me and Thor must have done the other one. But...Thor's been so pro-town, are you sure you're not a vig? If not, I'm wondering if some sort of delaying action is involved but, the double kill night 1 wouldn't make sense that way. Either way

Vote Bvoigt

I hope you're either fakeclaimed vig or SK Thor, I'll be pissed if you're mafia, SK's deserve wins far more.

[Haylen]

He clearly LIED about being a jailkeeper. Also, I told you so <_<

[Haylen]

Lol. Fine, I'm bullet proof SK I also get told when I'm targetted with a kill. I was trying to be targetted by scum all game by not my protown looking posts (I don't have the stamina to do them all the time though) and I had to look scummy enough that people would think I was town. Scum targetted me when that lack of a kill happened on Night Two. I killed Battle Mage convinced he was scum in order to try and set up a compulsive vig claim later on. I was annoyed at the mod for giving me Nathan Wallace as a fake claim when Repo man is my actual role rendering me unable to claim anything power roley after BVOIGT'S FAKECLAIM.

Truth enough for you?

[Haylen]

So town can't win anymore. I win if we no lynch, or Thor can vote Bvoigt with me and I win. Or, Thor can vote for me and let mafia win. But I really really really want another SK win. Please!!! I think town would prefer an SK win to a mafia win. I love you lots and lots. <3 (Lol, ok, I'm lying there. I'm fond of you.)

[Haylen]

Wait a minute. I lied. I'm not bulletproof.

Vote No lynch.

[Haylen]

I didn't think the no lynch thing would trick you It was just a little hope. I would pretty much do anything to win this game right now.

Unvote. Vote Bvoigt

Lurking to make people think I was town

I am playing to my win condition, just not in a way that people tend to expect others to.

[Haylen]

Because Thor, I never expected to and I've got this far. I joined the game because camn, Incog, Crayons and Yos did. I wanted to try and get revenge for a certain game back in the day. But of course they're much better than I am and I was sure I'd be figured out by them and lynched by able Day Two. It went against every instinct I had not to kill Incog on Night One because he knows my play pretty well. Now Day 5 and I'm so so so close. I HAVE to get this.

[Haylen]

* Never expected to win.

Lol. I am literally shaking right now. A lot of thought has gone into every move I've made and word said in this game.

[Haylen]

If you want to go with who played better think about this. From Day Two, I was calling for Bvoigt to be hung because I KNEW he was scum through pure scumhunting. I am an absolutely shocking townie and scum hunter and there's no way I would have been able to pick up on Battle Mage AND Bvoigt being scum if it wasn't obvious. Unfortunately, I am such a shit townie because of the lurking and stuff that nobody listens to me <_< That is why I played the better game.

[Haylen]

I promise I will explain the jerk thing. If I win. Trust me, emotionally I will benefit a whole more than you think. At the time, I thought that's what protown Hayl would do, then realised the next day 'oh crap im gonna have to stick with this.'

Good things come to those who help me win games!

/inb4Bvoigt tries to pull some gambit.

[Haylen]

Ok, we're using sex as a reason not to vote someone now.

Don't lynch me, I'm naked!

[Haylen]

Lol hey thor. I wasn't bullet proof :p You could have won by getting me and Bvoigt to shoot each other during the night.

[Haylen]

I was investigation immune though, hence the lurking. I was trying to get cop-camn to investigate me since I know how much she hates lurkers. Bvoigt could have easily convinced Thor I wasn't bullet proof by telling him 'no, we didn't target her on night 2 like she claims we did'. There was a lot of poor play on my part, stuff that could have really dropped me in it.

Good game though!

[Haylen]

The little man behind the screen of random.org just looks at my title and automatically gives the role to me. ._. The role is complete hell to play but fun at the same time, I hate being tied down with others.